married, Virgo sun, Taurus moon, Leo venus, Libra rising, Libra mars, Libra dominant

Posted by Gemitati
Posted by yupvirgoo
Posted by Weeds
I guess you can question what's more authentic what you believe or what you regret?
Some people need that hurt in order to think.
Some people need a little dose of real life.
If I can respect you enough to tell it like it is you should respect me for not giving you bullbutter.
If I apologize I just ruined what I set out to accomplish. That not only makes me invalid but my own beliefs into question.


That's a good and simple way to put it.

There are some people who have core beliefs that are.. universally just plain fvckd up. They can explain it away in the calmest way possible but it's just iffy. I think.. that there are just some things that people just should not apologize for not because they're right (because they could be balls deep wrong) but simply because it is what they genuinely believe in. And they need to really re-think what they honestly believe in.


Why would anyone rethink something they honestly believe in?
click to expand


Maybe they should, maybe they shouldn't.
Why aren't Taurus moons attracted to anyone?

I like Virgo moons.
Posted by Infinite8
Posted by yupvirgoo
Posted by Infinite8
Posted by yupvirgoo
Posted by Teena
I go on a guilt trip if I thought I said something mean even if the other person has been nasty or even if it's someone else's fault to start with. I won't say sorry if it's not my fault. But I always try to reconcile.I don't expect any explanations if someone has done me wrong. I mean... Explanations didn't somehow make more sense than a simple sorry to me ever. I'm letting it go anyway..so they won't make me feel any better. I appreciate it tho. N if I think I did hurt someone, I'd try n explain if confronted coz interpretations can be made very differently n they maybe totally off at times.But I sometimes also just leave it there if I think someone doesn't deserve an explanation.N I would say sorry if I'm really wrong. I'm pretty aware of what I say. So I wouldn't say something if I know it'd hurt someone just like that unless I really want to. I'll try not to say anything which I think I'd regret either way.


So you're the sort to let it go with either sorry or an explanation.

I have a friend whose girlfriend cheated on him with an ex and when he confronted her about it, instead of apologizing she said: "I just don't love you that much, the way that I do him."

This was like salt on the wound to him.

But I said: "Hey at least she explained herself."

He didn't talk to me for months lol.



That's the problem. Some people want the truth and others want to be lied to...

I can't stand being lied to - I would have appreciated the blunt truth.

As for hurting others feelings;

Sometimes I am very careful - if it's someone I really love that I KNOW is very sensitive, I will go out of my way to cushion the truth and flower it a little bit too ☺️.

Otherwise, I say what I need to say clearly and most times bluntly.

If I hurt their feelings unintentionally I say I'm sorry I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. What did I say that made it so?!?" And I will try to understand the situation more clearly.


If they had it coming - I sometimes also apologize (if I care about them or love them) and I say "I'm sorry you feel that way BUT I meant what I said". And let them take in their lessons.


Hmm.. it seems people usually do apologize for how they make others feel but not always for everything else.

Does this really happen in real life or are these all just ideals?

When someone cheats for example and they do the "I'm sorry" routine... I just can't imagine anyone to start with: "I'm sorry I made you feel blah blah blah blah.."

People never start with what someone else feels. They always start with what they said or did, why they chose all those and how they're never gonna do it again which I'm fine with because all feelings are the same- anger, hurt, rage, etc... as a response they're synonymous with what everyone have ever felt about situations like this and will ever feel. I wanna know more about the offense and why it was committed.

Is it really common to say: "I'm sorry I made you feel like ****?"

Some people don't even get to explain coz they're cut off but I always like hearing what people have to say, not coz I'm very forgiving but because I want to find some logic in the madness.


I wasn't talking about cheating, in my mind it was just me apologizing for my bluntness.

Firstly, you would have to be a pretty selfish individual to cheat and then have the gall to apologize for it - that's ridiculous. Those are just empty words. I don't live my life that way. I would much prefer to just say "I don't love you anymore, I am starting to sway" than to live a double life. So... I can't relate to your example.

The word SORRY is not an apology. The word sorry is also a feeling. You can feel distress or sympathy for the one you have hurt, without apologizing.



click to expand


Hmm.. I never thought of it that way.

I wish I had more water in my chart.

But aren't feelings worthless without words and actions?
Posted by PootyButt
Posted by yupvirgoo
Posted by PootyButt
Children are born with no empathy. They're taught how to deal with other people and that other people have boundaries and feelings by the niceties that parents teach them, like saying sorry when they cross a boundary they should not have crossed. This is how society works. If we were all allowed to pursue our desires at every moment from birth on, there would be no society. There would be anarchy and psychopaths.

Another thing to keep in mind is that our brains can't tell the difference between a physical and a social threat. We feel the pain of words, shame, and fear just as much as the pain of physical damage. Being ostracized by other people is probably the deepest wound that can be inflicted on a person.



Yes children must be taught but I'm not talking about restraining desires.

Here is what @Weeds posted.. and this is exactly what I'm trying to say.

"I guess you can question what's more authentic what you believe or what you regret?
Some people need that hurt in order to think.
Some people need a little dose of real life.
If I can respect you enough to tell it like it is you should respect me for not giving you bullbutter.
If I apologize I just ruined what I set out to accomplish. That not only makes me invalid but my own beliefs into question."


I've actually been thinking about this a lot. Some people are very, very, very careful about what they say and do to others. They think things through beforehand. Other people are not so guarded. They are more impulsive and may say things without thinking them through first. I'm naturally like the latter type. Because of that, I have to apologize more than people of the former type. I understand why people who are able to control themselves find people who can't annoying. It's a trait I find annoying about myself. Anyway, because I have stuck my foot in my mouth, I am more forgiving of other people who do that.

I think people like me who are spontaneous need to learn to be more careful so we hurt others less and need to apologize less. I think people who are extremely cautious should try to empathize with those of us who aren't so cautious and forgive more.
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I'm one of those people who are very cautious.

But see that's the thing, I'm generally known for being cautious.

That's why the rare times I'm very impulsive with my words and actions, people get doubly offended because they notice it more. But if you're the sort to be offensive all the time, anything you say would be "expected" of you while the cautious ones are always a "shock."
Posted by whatisthisallabout
Posted by yupvirgoo
Posted by whatisthisallabout
I apologize for how I made them feel, but still, I stand by my opinion.
I mean, there are always nicer ways of saying the same thing without hurting the other person's feelings as much.


Sometimes, you can't choose both.


I mean, I apologize that I hurt their feelings, but I tell them if they do it again, they will get the same results. I called my friend a "hypocrite" and he wanted me to apologize for calling him that cuz it hurt his feelings.... I can choose not to call him a hypocrite in the future cuz that word hurts him, but I will still think of him the same way if he says one thing but does another. (He called me and was all upset when it was him who was misunderstood by others but when I was upset about others, he told me it wouldn't upset him (dissed my feelings). The conversation below was when I was upset about my friends while he was not supportive so I called him a hyprocrite and then he confronted me and told me it was not nice.)


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He got offended because he thought of himself as an honest and sincere person.

You can tell a lot about someone by the things they find offensive.
Posted by Infinite8
Posted by yupvirgoo
Posted by Teena
I go on a guilt trip if I thought I said something mean even if the other person has been nasty or even if it's someone else's fault to start with. I won't say sorry if it's not my fault. But I always try to reconcile.I don't expect any explanations if someone has done me wrong. I mean... Explanations didn't somehow make more sense than a simple sorry to me ever. I'm letting it go anyway..so they won't make me feel any better. I appreciate it tho. N if I think I did hurt someone, I'd try n explain if confronted coz interpretations can be made very differently n they maybe totally off at times.But I sometimes also just leave it there if I think someone doesn't deserve an explanation.N I would say sorry if I'm really wrong. I'm pretty aware of what I say. So I wouldn't say something if I know it'd hurt someone just like that unless I really want to. I'll try not to say anything which I think I'd regret either way.


So you're the sort to let it go with either sorry or an explanation.

I have a friend whose girlfriend cheated on him with an ex and when he confronted her about it, instead of apologizing she said: "I just don't love you that much, the way that I do him."

This was like salt on the wound to him.

But I said: "Hey at least she explained herself."

He didn't talk to me for months lol.



That's the problem. Some people want the truth and others want to be lied to...

I can't stand being lied to - I would have appreciated the blunt truth.

As for hurting others feelings;

Sometimes I am very careful - if it's someone I really love that I KNOW is very sensitive, I will go out of my way to cushion the truth and flower it a little bit too ☺️.

Otherwise, I say what I need to say clearly and most times bluntly.

If I hurt their feelings unintentionally I say I'm sorry I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. What did I say that made it so?!?" And I will try to understand the situation more clearly.


If they had it coming - I sometimes also apologize (if I care about them or love them) and I say "I'm sorry you feel that way BUT I meant what I said". And let them take in their lessons.
click to expand


Hmm.. it seems people usually do apologize for how they make others feel but not always for everything else.

Does this really happen in real life or are these all just ideals?

When someone cheats for example and they do the "I'm sorry" routine... I just can't imagine anyone to start with: "I'm sorry I made you feel blah blah blah blah.."

People never start with what someone else feels. They always start with what they said or did, why they chose all those and how they're never gonna do it again which I'm fine with because all feelings are the same- anger, hurt, rage, etc... as a response they're synonymous with what everyone have ever felt about situations like this and will ever feel. I wanna know more about the offense and why it was committed.

Is it really common to say: "I'm sorry I made you feel like ****?"

Some people don't even get to explain coz they're cut off but I always like hearing what people have to say, not coz I'm very forgiving but because I want to find some logic in the madness.
Posted by whatisthisallabout
I apologize for how I made them feel, but still, I stand by my opinion.
I mean, there are always nicer ways of saying the same thing without hurting the other person's feelings as much.


Sometimes, you can't choose both.
Posted by Lunabee
It's possible to feel remorseful if you realize what you did hurt someone. And there is a difference between intentionally inflicting harm and acting selfishly ignorant.

I believe empathy is learned throughout life as a result of being victimized personally to the same treatment. Once a person walks in those shoes it can bring about a true sincerity in an apology.



I now believe it's best to pretend like everyone is sorry and means it when I'm done wrong - not because they are, or because they say it - but because I deserve to be happy. Else it creates a chip on my shoulder and rob's me of the present. Not worth it anymore. Yes, at times I temporarily take it upon myself to "teach someone" but thankfully that is less common.

Life is a great teacher after all.


"I now believe it's best to pretend like everyone is sorry and means it when I'm done wrong - not because they are, or because they say it - but because I deserve to be happy."

I really like this.

It sucks being a Virgo when all you ever really do is overthink.

I mean geez, I'm trying to measure sincerity here lol

I know that there are just some things that we all need to let go of, but I can't help putting everything under a microscope.

what's your sun sign?
Posted by PootyButt
Children are born with no empathy. They're taught how to deal with other people and that other people have boundaries and feelings by the niceties that parents teach them, like saying sorry when they cross a boundary they should not have crossed. This is how society works. If we were all allowed to pursue our desires at every moment from birth on, there would be no society. There would be anarchy and psychopaths.

Another thing to keep in mind is that our brains can't tell the difference between a physical and a social threat. We feel the pain of words, shame, and fear just as much as the pain of physical damage. Being ostracized by other people is probably the deepest wound that can be inflicted on a person.



Yes children must be taught but I'm not talking about restraining desires.

Here is what @Weeds posted.. and this is exactly what I'm trying to say.

"I guess you can question what's more authentic what you believe or what you regret?
Some people need that hurt in order to think.
Some people need a little dose of real life.
If I can respect you enough to tell it like it is you should respect me for not giving you bullbutter.
If I apologize I just ruined what I set out to accomplish. That not only makes me invalid but my own beliefs into question."
Posted by cvurko
Hmm, thats very interesting. And can be analyzed from so much perspectives, i got excited.

Fundamentally, your question represents the clash between two philosophies and life perspectives - putting yourself first or putting more importance on others. Being selfish or being selfless. Very interesting indeed.

On one hand, why should one apology for an act/omission if one feels he has done the right thing? Won't apologizing mean you are going against yourself? From this perspective one thinks he is not responsable for how others feel and interpret information(all kind of information), wants to be true to himself and dont be repressed by societal norms or the perspective of people who are not him. A lot of philosophies proclame that approach to be the right one to find your true self and be one with your soul. Happinnes and clarity being the final goal, of course.

On the other hand, being altruistic and putting your feelings and ego, losing your sense of self in a sense, is as popular of a philosophy as the prior one. Creating positive energy in others by caring for their feelings and ststa. That should be more positive energy than just caring for yourself, right?

Personally i think that caring too much for others and trying to make them feel better and fix their problems too often is not helping neither them, nor you. How can a person become stronger, more agile, when he can't face his problems, no matter of their form or nature, and overcome them?
I also think that being constantly looking for your own well-being without ever thinking on how your actions will influence others is counter-productive and will not make you happy in the true sense of the word.
For me, the answer is to balance the two philosophies and trying to understand when apologizing(or helping) will be the better choice, and when your own needs should be the priority. Im too young, and too far from reaching happinnes, to know what the best approach is but thats what i think is the best way atm.
Thanks for the thread, it provoked some insights for me.


And thank you for this profound piece of nugget.

Being a Libra mars and dominant, I've always liked to compare things against each other.. and sometimes my caring for "the other" overpowers even myself... but I also have double Earth and I feel like I'm not being "true to myself."

I want to consistently remain in a certain viewpoint but harmonious relationships are also just as important to me. Sometimes, it's better not to be right as long as I can keep the relationship in peace. But the Virgo in me knows that people will never improve if they don't accept truths about themselves.

So now I'm thinking, people who apologize too readily and too quickly.. should not.

People often think that I'm just being stubborn or proud when I don't apologize fast enough. But truth is, I'm seriously thinking if I should even apologize in the first place.. and I have to select which ones I should be apologizing for because it can't be for the words nor the deed coz I meant them but it could be for the way I said it. But is that really much of an apology? That's a half-apology. And I don't like giving things in half, unless it's a fruit.
Posted by tiziani
Posted by yupvirgoo
Posted by tiziani
I do apologise for that, yes. I remember doing so very recently. It didn't conflict with my worldview.


lol

I've read somewhere that when a person is offended, it means that you've "wounded" their self-concept or the beliefs that they carry about themselves. You shook them that much. It's their self-perception... that you're slinging mud against in a way.

And there are people who consider themselves as their own world.

It's impossible to be truly yourself without being a little self-absorbed.






Well funnily enough, the last time my worldview changed was because of this person's influence on my life so maybe we just have that kind of bond. Or maybe they own my world. Perish the thought.
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I'm guessing your relationship with this person was of a romantic nature or at least familial.

The things I usually get offended by have something to do with my family. Insinuating anything negative regarding my wife, my marriage and my kids... not a good idea. It's obvious what my world is.

And it is clear that person is your world... or was?
@cvurko

i cant see your post

what is it?

why is it hidden?
Posted by Teena
Posted by yupvirgoo
Posted by Teena
Posted by yupvirgoo
Posted by Teena
Posted by yupvirgoo
Posted by Teena
I go on a guilt trip if I thought I said something mean even if the other person has been nasty or even if it's someone else's fault to start with. I won't say sorry if it's not my fault. But I always try to reconcile.I don't expect any explanations if someone has done me wrong. I mean... Explanations didn't somehow make more sense than a simple sorry to me ever. I'm letting it go anyway..so they won't make me feel any better. I appreciate it tho. N if I think I did hurt someone, I'd try n explain if confronted coz interpretations can be made very differently n they maybe totally off at times.But I sometimes also just leave it there if I think someone doesn't deserve an explanation.N I would say sorry if I'm really wrong. I'm pretty aware of what I say. So I wouldn't say something if I know it'd hurt someone just like that unless I really want to. I'll try not to say anything which I think I'd regret either way.


So you're the sort to let it go with either sorry or an explanation.

I have a friend whose girlfriend cheated on him with an ex and when he confronted her about it, instead of apologizing she said: "I just don't love you that much, the way that I do him."

This was like salt on the wound to him.

But I said: "Hey at least she explained herself."

He didn't talk to me for months lol.


I let it go even without a sorry or explanation is what I said lol. As I said, me trying to reconcile even when the other person is at fault is not very uncommon for me. I just hate any awkwardness. I can't hold it.

πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚

The poor guy!! Did he stay with her after that??


Of course not.

They obviously don't like each other anymore at that point so they broke up.


Oh yeah. The girl clearly said she likes someone more. Would it have been different if she said it was an accident or "in the heat of the moment" thing? Or do you think she deserves a chance then?


If she lied, they'd probably still be together.

But isn't the truth much better?


Ofcourse truth is always better. I meant to ask if the truth was different.
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Cheating... is hard to forgive.

Would you forgive someone who cheated on you?
Posted by Teena
Posted by yupvirgoo
Posted by Teena
Posted by yupvirgoo
Posted by Teena
I go on a guilt trip if I thought I said something mean even if the other person has been nasty or even if it's someone else's fault to start with. I won't say sorry if it's not my fault. But I always try to reconcile.I don't expect any explanations if someone has done me wrong. I mean... Explanations didn't somehow make more sense than a simple sorry to me ever. I'm letting it go anyway..so they won't make me feel any better. I appreciate it tho. N if I think I did hurt someone, I'd try n explain if confronted coz interpretations can be made very differently n they maybe totally off at times.But I sometimes also just leave it there if I think someone doesn't deserve an explanation.N I would say sorry if I'm really wrong. I'm pretty aware of what I say. So I wouldn't say something if I know it'd hurt someone just like that unless I really want to. I'll try not to say anything which I think I'd regret either way.


So you're the sort to let it go with either sorry or an explanation.

I have a friend whose girlfriend cheated on him with an ex and when he confronted her about it, instead of apologizing she said: "I just don't love you that much, the way that I do him."

This was like salt on the wound to him.

But I said: "Hey at least she explained herself."

He didn't talk to me for months lol.


I let it go even without a sorry or explanation is what I said lol. As I said, me trying to reconcile even when the other person is at fault is not very uncommon for me. I just hate any awkwardness. I can't hold it.

πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚

The poor guy!! Did he stay with her after that??


Of course not.

They obviously don't like each other anymore at that point so they broke up.


Oh yeah. The girl clearly said she likes someone more. Would it have been different if she said it was an accident or "in the heat of the moment" thing? Or do you think she deserves a chance then?
click to expand


If she lied, they'd probably still be together.

But isn't the truth much better?
Posted by Teena
Posted by yupvirgoo
Posted by Teena
I go on a guilt trip if I thought I said something mean even if the other person has been nasty or even if it's someone else's fault to start with. I won't say sorry if it's not my fault. But I always try to reconcile.I don't expect any explanations if someone has done me wrong. I mean... Explanations didn't somehow make more sense than a simple sorry to me ever. I'm letting it go anyway..so they won't make me feel any better. I appreciate it tho. N if I think I did hurt someone, I'd try n explain if confronted coz interpretations can be made very differently n they maybe totally off at times.But I sometimes also just leave it there if I think someone doesn't deserve an explanation.N I would say sorry if I'm really wrong. I'm pretty aware of what I say. So I wouldn't say something if I know it'd hurt someone just like that unless I really want to. I'll try not to say anything which I think I'd regret either way.


So you're the sort to let it go with either sorry or an explanation.

I have a friend whose girlfriend cheated on him with an ex and when he confronted her about it, instead of apologizing she said: "I just don't love you that much, the way that I do him."

This was like salt on the wound to him.

But I said: "Hey at least she explained herself."

He didn't talk to me for months lol.


I let it go even without a sorry or explanation is what I said lol. As I said, me trying to reconcile even when the other person is at fault is not very uncommon for me. I just hate any awkwardness. I can't hold it.

πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚

The poor guy!! Did he stay with her after that??
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Of course not.

They obviously don't like each other anymore at that point so they broke up.
Posted by AneemA
Posted by yupvirgoo
Posted by AneemA
Posted by yupvirgoo


Nobody ever says: "I'm sorry about what I said and did because that is me as person- selfish, crazy, jealous, delusional and I don't use coasters. I have to work on all that crap inside me so you can you know.. choose to stay while I work on improving myself as a person or run away."



Are you talking about my post yesterday?



lol no i haven't even seen that

what's it about?


Exactly about that. Precise. That's why I thought you have read that. Lol
I told him too though.
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Do you have the link to that thread?

I'm curious now lol
Posted by Teena
I go on a guilt trip if I thought I said something mean even if the other person has been nasty or even if it's someone else's fault to start with. I won't say sorry if it's not my fault. But I always try to reconcile.I don't expect any explanations if someone has done me wrong. I mean... Explanations didn't somehow make more sense than a simple sorry to me ever. I'm letting it go anyway..so they won't make me feel any better. I appreciate it tho. N if I think I did hurt someone, I'd try n explain if confronted coz interpretations can be made very differently n they maybe totally off at times.But I sometimes also just leave it there if I think someone doesn't deserve an explanation.N I would say sorry if I'm really wrong. I'm pretty aware of what I say. So I wouldn't say something if I know it'd hurt someone just like that unless I really want to. I'll try not to say anything which I think I'd regret either way.


So you're the sort to let it go with either sorry or an explanation.

I have a friend whose girlfriend cheated on him with an ex and when he confronted her about it, instead of apologizing she said: "I just don't love you that much, the way that I do him."

This was like salt on the wound to him.

But I said: "Hey at least she explained herself."

He didn't talk to me for months lol.
Posted by AneemA
Posted by yupvirgoo


Nobody ever says: "I'm sorry about what I said and did because that is me as person- selfish, crazy, jealous, delusional and I don't use coasters. I have to work on all that crap inside me so you can you know.. choose to stay while I work on improving myself as a person or run away."



Are you talking about my post yesterday?

click to expand


lol no i haven't even seen that

what's it about?
Posted by tiziani
I do apologise for that, yes. I remember doing so very recently. It didn't conflict with my worldview.


lol

I've read somewhere that when a person is offended, it means that you've "wounded" their self-concept or the beliefs that they carry about themselves. You shook them that much. It's their self-perception... that you're slinging mud against in a way.

And there are people who consider themselves as their own world.

It's impossible to be truly yourself without being a little self-absorbed.



Posted by Weeds
Posted by yupvirgoo
@Weeds

what's your mercury, moon and mars?


Mercury Virgo
Mars Virgo
Moon I keep to myself
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Fair enough.