R1g0rM0rT1s
@R1g0rM0rT1s
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Expectations
Posted by R1g0rM0rT1s
When we expect something, we are projecting out into the future what we believe to be true.
Hmm, yes I can definitely see what you are saying. I think however, that when we expect something we aren't necessarily projecting what we believe to be true, but what we simply want for our future. Most (sane) people don't say to themselves "I expect to be happy" or "I expect you to love me", but we do hope to find love and do things to create happiness in our lives. Without some expectations we enter relationships aimlessly without any real focus or plan. Whether that plan be as simple as "I would like to meet someone I can trust and be myself with" or as complicated as "I would like to have a committed relationship and eventually be married". With that said, I do think people can enter relationships projecting certain needs and desires onto other people (unrealistic expectations) when they really should obtain these needs and desires for themselves. Sadly, they then leave disappointed or ruin the relationship.
Your book sounds interesting.
Posted by PhoenixRisingPosted by R1g0rM0rT1s
When we expect something, we are projecting out into the future what we believe to be true.
Hmm, yes I can definitely see what you are saying. I think however, that when we expect something we aren't necessarily projecting what we believe to be true, but what we simply want for our future. Most (sane) people don't say to themselves "I expect to be happy" or "I expect you to love me", but we do hope to find love and do things to create happiness in our lives. Without some expectations we enter relationships aimlessly without any real focus or plan. Whether that plan be as simple as "I would like to meet someone I can trust and be myself with" or as complicated as "I would like to have a committed relationship and eventually be married". With that said, I do think people can enter relationships projecting certain needs and desires onto other people (unrealistic expectations) when they really should obtain these needs and desires for themselves. Sadly, they then leave disappointed or ruin the relationship.
Your book sounds interesting.click to expand
I definitely agree. Well said
I don't think there is absolutely anything wrong with expectations if your ego is healthy.
Agreed!
dazed....i disagree. expectations are not the same as goals and ambitions...expectations relate to specific outcomes that are driven by our wants and desires and not based in reality. i don't think it's good to go through life with any expectations at all cos then it means you aren't flexible when you come across obstacles because you haven't factored in anything external when you form expectations....they come from you, whereas all events have other participants or variables that we are unaware of. goals allow for obstacles and setbacks...the goal is always there...it's not an expectation, it's a motivation 🙂
Posted by ellessque
When I have an expectation that fails or doesn't meet what I envisioned.......I cut my losses and move on fairly quickly.
If you can't do that, I can see where it would potentially create a problem for you.
I don't like to dwell or wallow about anything for too long.
I found when I lowered my expectations or had none at all, drama was attracted to me. Anything and everything was acceptable to me, including asshat behaviour. That is draining to me and I don't have time for nonsense.
Expectations that don't pan out do not define you. If they are not met you should not allow yourself to downward spiral.
They are simply tools to help you reach a place of happy and positivity.
The glass half full.
it's funny you say about cutting losses cos that's the context of the book but the fact that you have considered or will account for a different outcome to the one you envisage is NOT an expectation at all and that is EXACTLY the mindset of a good trader.
to be clearer and this is only my opinion as an EXTREMELY positive person dazed, an expectation is a process that is cast in stone in your mind that is determined in your heart and is RIGID (head out of the gutter pls). you can't go through life expecting to land a certain job, expecting to drive a certain car, expecting a certain type of relationship cos you will ALWAYS be disappointed. expectation means that you are more or less WAITING for these things to pan out and that means you aren't being proactive in your destiny at all. you can't form an expectation in a world that works outside of expectancy...if you think you can then presumably you must see very clearly into the future and know exactly what is to take place.
expectations are negative....goals and ambitions are positive. my cup isn't just half full...it overflows 😄
if expectancy is a tool, it's the spanner in the works imo. the world doesn't owe you anything and so to 'expect' anything is pointless. you can aspire to things though and that is motivational and positive.
it's like if i decide to go short on brent crude cos i think the price is going down...if i make that trade with an EXPECTANCY that the market will move in my way, i will have opened myself up to disappointment and all the emotions attached to that should the market move against me. i've been an analyst for 25 years and i have no clue for sure which way the market will go. i can only take a view and follow that view WITHOUT EXPECTANCY cos otherwise, i won't be sharp enough to act if my position starts showing losses. if i have expectancy that the trade will turn and go back in my favour, i may be tempted to hold on to it beyond my 'signal' cos i'm convinced things will eventually turn around in my favour.
but why should they? the market is comprised of 100s of 1000s of traders all influencing the price according to their own strategy...the variables are enormous and unknown. we can arm ourselves with knowledge about the financial markets but to ever hold an expectancy that our trades will always go our way is a way to be a loser.
i think we agree but it's down to pedantry and the definition of the word expectancy.
it's like if i decide to go short on brent crude cos i think the price is going down...if i make that trade with an EXPECTANCY that the market will move in my way, i will have opened myself up to disappointment and all the emotions attached to that should the market move against me. i've been an analyst for 25 years and i have no clue for sure which way the market will go. i can only take a view and follow that view WITHOUT EXPECTANCY cos otherwise, i won't be sharp enough to act if my position starts showing losses. if i have expectancy that the trade will turn and go back in my favour, i may be tempted to hold on to it beyond my 'signal' cos i'm convinced things will eventually turn around in my favour.
but why should they? the market is comprised of 100s of 1000s of traders all influencing the price according to their own strategy...the variables are enormous and unknown. we can arm ourselves with knowledge about the financial markets but to ever hold an expectancy that our trades will always go our way is a way to be a loser.
i think we agree but it's down to pedantry and the definition of the word expectancy.
Posted by R1g0rM0rT1s
dazed.... i don't think it's good to go through life with any expectations at all cos then it means you aren't flexible when you come across obstacles because you haven't factored in anything external when you form expectations....
I don't know if that is true. Just because one has expectations doesn't mean you aren't flexible. A person chooses to be inflexible. Most people make adjustments according to life circumstances especially when it involves other people, but there are some that are very "it's all about what I want". If you had absolutely no expectations of people how could you relate to them in a way they says "this is who I am and want from life". More importantly, how do you let the other person know how and in what way they can be a part of your life? How do you want to be treated? When we are courting/dating should I call you all the time, or a few times a week to touch base? When we argue do you need me to sit and talk it out until we have a resolution that we are both happy with, or can I just give you space, ignore that we just fought and move on?(--Trust me I know people that do the latter all the time). These are all thing that get answered because you came into the relationship expecting to be treated in a certain way. The problem begins when people are unwilling to recognize that while they have expectations so does the other person. Or even that their expectations may be unrealistic and they need to bring it down a notch or two. Can you compromise? Adjust? But if you are all "Naw baby *roll neck, wag finger in face* I don't care if you enjoy watching sports on Sunday. I want Sunday to be our time to bond" for example, well then you'll have issues in the relationship. Can you recognize that "bonding" can be done in a number of ways (e.g. watch sports with him while cuddling on the couch) or hey, crazy idea, on another day? I know I am oversimplifying here. The only problem I see with expectations is when ego gets in the way, as someone already mentioned.
Posted by ellessque
Expectations that don't pan out do not define you. If they are not met you should not allow yourself to downward spiral.
They are simply tools to help you reach a place of happy and positivity.
Exactly. I think there lies the problem. Some people think it is somehow a failure if they couldn't get their needs met. "He or she didn't love me enough" perhaps it means I'm not worth it or wasn't loved enough be that person. Rather than recognize that 1) you're expectations of love/relationships may be unrealistic or 2) that person and you are not in the same place and while it is no failure on their part, they can not meet your needs. Or just a combination of both. I also think for some people it may be about their control issues. "I need you to meet my needs and I'll be d*mned if I'll compromise. Why? I run this sh*t". High expectations+control issues=disaster.
Posted by R1g0rM0rT1sPosted by ellessque
...expectations are negative.....goals and ambitions are positive.click to expand
I only see expectations as negative if they are viewed in terms of "I deserve" or "I should have", because frankly no one deserves anything. You work towards acquire things (e.g. happy relationship, friendship, good job, ect.)
Posted by DazedScorp
If I put a $ 1 in the soda machine, I expect a soda to pop out.
If it doesn't, I expect the soda machine will have a sledge hammer in it.
I expect Dazed will find something humorous to say in every thread, even if it's about someone losing a limb. Dude! !!!!
ok. to make it simple. if you EXPECT something, there is no room for error. yeah, we can expect the sun to rise in the morning and the sun will continue to rise in the morning.....the sun rising is a KNOWN variable and so that's what we base that expectancy on. it's the areas where there are unknown variables...ie other people or circumstances beyond your control, you can't EVER expect or rely upon a certain outcome. you're all saying this but still calling that expectation...which it isn't.
you can expect to have a good day and to wake up alive and well every morning.....but it may not pan out that way every single day of your life.
you can EXPECT to have a baby if you're pregnant but your expectancy won't tell you what that baby looks like, what gender it is or even if it will survive birth.
you can EXPECT water to come from the showerhead when you take a shower.....but if you live in spain, that sometimes is NOT the case, lol.
the word expect gives the impression you are waiting for things to happen your way...or that you take for granted that they will but you're dealing with things with unknown variables. there could be a burst water pipe stopping your shower from working...you wouldn't expect that.
by saying that if obstacles come your way when you have expectancy and that you will just walk over them or deal with them as they come, you are NOT talking about expectancy at all....you are talking about UNEXPECTED things occuring...things outside of your expectancy.
"It's not a goal....goals are different. You work towards a goal, you plan it, you research it, if something gets in your path YOU WORK AROUND IT OR THRU IT until you've accomplished that goal."
i never said expectancies and goals are the same. that's precisely my point!!!! goals and ambitions are flexible and people who have them work towards them and achieve them. people who have expectancy are expecting things to pan out according to how they planned and so when things don't go their way, they feel disappointed and unprepared on what to do about it.
if you factor in any kind of outside influence, you aren't talking about expectancy at all because you can't possibly expect the outside influence to behave in the way you predicted.
jeeeeeeeeeeesus mary mother of god!!!!! i thought it was an interesting paragraph!! *head hits desk*
you can expect to have a good day and to wake up alive and well every morning.....but it may not pan out that way every single day of your life.
you can EXPECT to have a baby if you're pregnant but your expectancy won't tell you what that baby looks like, what gender it is or even if it will survive birth.
you can EXPECT water to come from the showerhead when you take a shower.....but if you live in spain, that sometimes is NOT the case, lol.
the word expect gives the impression you are waiting for things to happen your way...or that you take for granted that they will but you're dealing with things with unknown variables. there could be a burst water pipe stopping your shower from working...you wouldn't expect that.
by saying that if obstacles come your way when you have expectancy and that you will just walk over them or deal with them as they come, you are NOT talking about expectancy at all....you are talking about UNEXPECTED things occuring...things outside of your expectancy.
"It's not a goal....goals are different. You work towards a goal, you plan it, you research it, if something gets in your path YOU WORK AROUND IT OR THRU IT until you've accomplished that goal."
i never said expectancies and goals are the same. that's precisely my point!!!! goals and ambitions are flexible and people who have them work towards them and achieve them. people who have expectancy are expecting things to pan out according to how they planned and so when things don't go their way, they feel disappointed and unprepared on what to do about it.
if you factor in any kind of outside influence, you aren't talking about expectancy at all because you can't possibly expect the outside influence to behave in the way you predicted.
jeeeeeeeeeeesus mary mother of god!!!!! i thought it was an interesting paragraph!! *head hits desk*
Posted by ellessque
I also think people don't take responsibilities for their own expectations and expect other people to fill them.
That should never be the case.
OMG!!! why can't you see that we're saying the same thing—??!!!!!! the whole thing about having expectations and them being negative is PRECISELY because people aren't taking responsibility!!!!! THEY EXPECT OTHER PEOPLE AND EVENTS TO GO THEIR WAY AND FULFILL THEIR EXPECTATIONS. they do NOT consider other people and events when they form their expectation and THAT IS WHY THEY ARE BAAAAAAAAAAAAD THINGS TO HAVE.
i fucking HATE this thread now. i expect i'll remove it later, lol. some of you guys would argue the toss no matter what the debate. bad scorpio trait imo.
I think it's a great thread... learning to not be outcome dependent has really helped me in my personal/romantic life (where I struggle the most). Don't delete it!
Posted by ellessque
I think Rig had too high of expectations for this thread. 😄
hahahah!!! sooooooooooooooooo funny 😛
Posted by IntriguedScorp
Are goals and expectations the same thing?
nah cos it's like the goal in football...you take a shot at it but you don't necessarily always score cos you might kick the ball like a 90 year old woman or get the trajectory totally wrong or as i would probably do, fall arse over face and completely miss the ball itself! there are unknown variables involved in scoring or achieving goals.
an expectation means that you have only one set of outcomes available to you because that is all you are focused on and all you believe will transpire. there's a difference between expecting to be successful and aiming for success.
NOM!!!!
Don't delete it. It's a good healthy discussion. It's a break from the typical "I don't know why I can't get this man or woman to put up with my bull--um love me".
I dig... it's the mindset I like to keep going into the movie theater so that there's better chance my over priced ticket and snacks weren't paid for in vain.
truly
Idealy, I think you should have expectations for yourself and your own performance, and then goals and aims for your results. Everyone should have or try to have control over themselves so it's fair to set expectations for yourself. Chances are you will set yourself up for disappointment if you expect certain outcomes where the variables and factors aren't entirely within your control, or mostly out of your control. The more you know what you are doing and have exp with those variables and factors, the better you can set expectations of yourself that are relevant to those variables/factors. This will allow you to do YOUR part in controlling outcomes as much as they can be controlled.
truly
Idealy, I think you should have expectations for yourself and your own performance, and then goals and aims for your results. Everyone should have or try to have control over themselves so it's fair to set expectations for yourself. Chances are you will set yourself up for disappointment if you expect certain outcomes where the variables and factors aren't entirely within your control, or mostly out of your control. The more you know what you are doing and have exp with those variables and factors, the better you can set expectations of yourself that are relevant to those variables/factors. This will allow you to do YOUR part in controlling outcomes as much as they can be controlled.
Posted by CreepyPants
I dig... it's the mindset I like to keep going into the movie theater so that there's better chance my over priced ticket and snacks weren't paid for in vain.
truly
Idealy, I think you should have expectations for yourself and your own performance, and then goals and aims for your results. Everyone should have or try to have control over themselves so it's fair to set expectations for yourself. Chances are you will set yourself up for disappointment if you expect certain outcomes where the variables and factors aren't entirely within your control, or mostly out of your control. The more you know what you are doing and have exp with those variables and factors, the better you can set expectations of yourself that are relevant to those variables/factors. This will allow you to do YOUR part in controlling outcomes as much as they can be controlled.
that is absolute genius creepypants. explained in a nutshell 😄
here's another excerpt:
Here's where we run into problems. Because our expectations
come from what we know, when we decide or believe that we know
something, we naturally expect to be right. At that point, we're no
longer in a neutral or open state of mind, and it's not difficult to understand
why. If we're going to feel great if the market does what we
expect it to do, or feel horrible if it doesn't, then we're not exactly neutral
or open-minded. Quite the contrary, the force of the belief behind
the expectation will cause us to perceive market information in a way
that confirms what we expect (we naturally like feeling good); and our
pain-avoidance mechanisms will shield us from information that doesn't
confirm what we expect (to keep us from feeling bad).
Here's where we run into problems. Because our expectations
come from what we know, when we decide or believe that we know
something, we naturally expect to be right. At that point, we're no
longer in a neutral or open state of mind, and it's not difficult to understand
why. If we're going to feel great if the market does what we
expect it to do, or feel horrible if it doesn't, then we're not exactly neutral
or open-minded. Quite the contrary, the force of the belief behind
the expectation will cause us to perceive market information in a way
that confirms what we expect (we naturally like feeling good); and our
pain-avoidance mechanisms will shield us from information that doesn't
confirm what we expect (to keep us from feeling bad).
grazie r1g 🙂
i just read that after a 12 hr day and i'm not sure why lol my brain is mush
so this excerpt is saying our bias or emotional leaning will make us label information as good/bad when it should have no polarity at all? i think that's what it's saying... makes complete sense.
i have a friend who's a financial advisor. really good at his job. i say to him every once in a while, "you're not human, you're a financial advisor" i'm both joking and serious when i say it, cuz he lacks any feeling or sensitivity most of the time. to the point where it's funny, but kinda sad. after reading these excerpts, HE and his weirdness makes so much more sense.
i just read that after a 12 hr day and i'm not sure why lol my brain is mush
so this excerpt is saying our bias or emotional leaning will make us label information as good/bad when it should have no polarity at all? i think that's what it's saying... makes complete sense.
i have a friend who's a financial advisor. really good at his job. i say to him every once in a while, "you're not human, you're a financial advisor" i'm both joking and serious when i say it, cuz he lacks any feeling or sensitivity most of the time. to the point where it's funny, but kinda sad. after reading these excerpts, HE and his weirdness makes so much more sense.
creepy: that's interesting what you said about your friend cos it's a golden rule of trading or investing in financial markets to be completely DETACHED. you have to remain icey cold about your dealings because as soon as you get emotionally involved, fear and greed enter into the equation and you make baaaaaaad decisions.....like getting distracted by dxp when the market's crashing, lol.
the book has been really useful in helping me detach generally which is something i feel comes naturally to a scorpio in any case, but it shows the positive reasons for detachment which is a clear perspective and an ability to be more flexible and pro-active in your dealings.
i just think this can apply to many of the relationship issues that are brought to dxp. if there's any issue in a personal relationship, detachment is the best way to move forward....imo.
the book has been really useful in helping me detach generally which is something i feel comes naturally to a scorpio in any case, but it shows the positive reasons for detachment which is a clear perspective and an ability to be more flexible and pro-active in your dealings.
i just think this can apply to many of the relationship issues that are brought to dxp. if there's any issue in a personal relationship, detachment is the best way to move forward....imo.
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The potential damage caused by holding unrealistic expectations comes from how it affects the way we perceive information.
Expectations are mental representations of what some future moment will look, sound, taste, smell, or feel like. Expectations come from what we know. This makes sense, because we can't expect something that we have no knowledge or awareness of. What we know is synonymous with what we have learned to believe about the ways in which the external environment can express itself. What we believe is our own personal version of the truth. When we expect something, we are projecting out into the future what we believe to be true. We are expecting the outside environment a minute, an hour, a day, a week, or a month from now to be the way we have represented it in our minds.
We have to be careful about what we project out into the future, because nothing else has the potential to create more unhappiness and emotional misery than an unfulfilled expectation.