Believing in Science and the Divine

Well I stumbled on the other thread where someone was talking about black magick and I started to think about a few things. Personally I love science and love finding out how things work, the maths and physics behind things and just generally something about equations and numbers. I was a total physics buff when I was in University.

Now I don't really talk to people about this much but not because I don't want to but honestly it's been a part of my life since childhood that I forget it. I'm Pagan, specifically Norse and Wiccan. The only time I'd talk about it is when people make mention of my pentagram. Something about me worshiping the devil. smh.

I think this throws a lot of people off because they know I love learning about the science behind things but when I talk about paganism it's like they're at loss for words and never thought I would believe in divine energies, spiritual bodies, rituals, spells, invoking wisdom of deities and so forth.

Are there any others out there that hold same beliefs? If you do have you ever been frowned upon? Do people dismiss you more easily? For example Christianity is far more recognized as being 'proper' as opposed to the mainstream view of paganism.

well it's like Harry Potter, when it came out. Loads of people and their grandmothers were crying devil worshippers. Or something to that effect. Whatever.

J.K.Rowling believes in God, but she's not phased by such things.

besides, like in the bible, you dont mess with such things, or you'll get it back 100x or something like that. there's tons of persian quotes that go back centuries, and mention stuff that tells humanity to be good, be humble, be kind, very simple stuff really.

What about the more paranormal? Remote Viewing and Astral Projection? I never use to think these things work and honestly I'm still skeptical given I AM rather science minded but the accuracy at which I've gotten a few places scares me!

Oh Lisabeth you have no idea how much crap I got when Harry Potter came out 😛 I guess it's more fantasy and sometimes I imagine myself casting those spells hahaha! I'm such a kid on the inside.

Posted by aquasnoz
What about the more paranormal? Remote Viewing and Astral Projection? I never use to think these things work and honestly I'm still skeptical given I AM rather science minded but the accuracy at which I've gotten a few places scares me!

Oh Lisabeth you have no idea how much crap I got when Harry Potter came out 😛 I guess it's more fantasy and sometimes I imagine myself casting those spells hahaha! I'm such a kid on the inside.

I was so into Harry Potter, and other fanclubs. I read almost every article on J.KRowing and how much crap she got from people all over the world. It's horrible. But, at the same time, she kept writing all her 7 books, to give children, and those who grew up with her, a powerful message of love, of the darkness we all go through and endurance.

i posted this before, but it always rings true:

(but people always need reminders, every freaking day of their lives...)

The user who posted this message has hidden it.

oh. lol anyway i agree with you. 😉

lol Lisa!!!! 😉

Posted by lisabethur8
i posted this before, but it always rings true:

(but people always need reminders, every freaking day of their lives...)

I much like Snape's story 😉 Sometimes the right path is the dark path.

Man Snape is the true here of Harry potter......

Posted by NotYourAverageAquarius
Man Snape is the true here of Harry potter......

Just for shits and giggles he's a Capricorn! I think he suits a scorp tho 😉

Do you wear this pentagram around your neck for people to mention it?

I am not for or against anyone being pagan (believe whatever the f you want) but my ex has a sister in which her life completely revolves around being a Wiccan and all this other stuff. She whole heartedly believes that she is a Druid princess reincarnated, and you know what? That's all fine and dandy. Except I couldn't stand her as a human being. *shrug*

So, in conclusion. I have no point to my story.

But, I have a friend who practices voodoo and it's actually quite beautiful and not at all what people think it is.

Posted by DeeGee
I was raised Roman Catholic but as I got older I began to form my own opinions about God, the world and what it represents to me.

I don't have any fancy Authors or philosophers to quote from...Philosophy is someones spin on what the world means to them. I don't put to much stock into anyone one persons view, of what they think the world is or should be.

I enjoy a witty quote from time to time, but it's not bible to me.

Totally get what you mean there. My mother hasn't been completely adamant about me following her ways in fact it was my dad who introduced me to Christianity! Use to go to church every sunday until he changed his mind and we started learning about Taoism when I became a vegetarian for 4 years 😛

I don't know if it's a blessing or a curse to be exposed to all these different views and cultures it just makes whatever mutable qualities I have even worse!

^ god damn it forgot to close the bold tag!

Posted by Stardusting
Do you wear this pentagram around your neck for people to mention it?

I am not for or against anyone being pagan (believe whatever the f you want) but my ex has a sister in which her life completely revolves around being a Wiccan and all this other stuff. She whole heartedly believes that she is a Druid princess reincarnated, and you know what? That's all fine and dandy. Except I couldn't stand her as a human being. *shrug*

So, in conclusion. I have no point to my story.

But, I have a friend who practices voodoo and it's actually quite beautiful and not at all what people think it is.

yeah I do wear it around my neck, when my mum gave it to me she tied a dead knot. It's really sentimental to me so I've not taken it off for over a decade now. Family heirloom so to speak. I don't show it off or anything, it's usually tucked away but there are times where it does come out for people to see it.

I wouldn't say my life revolves around it but yeah I do have a casting circle, an alter, wand, herbs, candles, runes, the works. I keep my eye on the lunar cycles every now and then. I'm not sure I definitely have friends who sound like your ex's sister but for me it's purely spiritual.

I was about to as if you were water dominant and have a lot of fishy influences! But definitely a yes on the sixth sense. It's just at times I feel it's unfair and I want to be wrong about someone that I feel a bad vibe from. The death and accidents part I dread because it freaks me out.

I don't dream often, none that I can recall anyway. But when it's a vivid black and white dream that's when I fear it. Always feel like death is following me around.

We're entirely bonkers but all the best people are!

Posted by DeeGee

Posted by aquasnoz
I was about to as if you were water dominant and have a lot of fishy influences! But definitely a yes on the sixth sense. It's just at times I feel it's unfair and I want to be wrong about someone that I feel a bad vibe from. The death and accidents part I dread because it freaks me out.

I don't dream often, none that I can recall anyway. But when it's a vivid black and white dream that's when I fear it. Always feel like death is following me around.

We're entirely bonkers but all the best people are!

My Second most dominant(According to Pullen) Planet/Asteroid, is Chiron, which is in Pisces and Pisces is my most dominant sign.

I am 47% water....

click to expand

🙂

Posted by feb16aqua
I also love science and learning about things that I do not understand. Sometimes it can be overwhelming though and I need to leave it for a bit.

There's a lot of unknowns and a lot that we do not know, will we ever know?

One thing is for sure. We have the right to believe what we want to believe and to practice how we wish, as long as it doesn't infringe on the peace and harmony of others.

lady you are always overwhelmed Lol. whew!! i always get a sense of exasperation and frustration from you. ^.~

but i agree with you on the last paragraph 🙂

Sometimes I wish I could get into this more esoteric stuff, but I can't fully accept anything until its scientifically proven, or simply logical. I don't even take astrology too seriously - to me, it's a cross between being a good metaphor to individual observations, and entertainment.

I haven't got any Pisces anywhere in my chart, nothing in my 12th house, and Neptune is ranked as virtually non-existent in my chart.

I'm Uranian dominant, which is probably why I am curious about these things at all, but I am never fully converted unless scientifically sound.




(NOTE: I'm a Libra with Aqua rising/NN...not a Sun Aq)

I feel great today but been losing stuff. Its a weird dichotomy ... 😕

Beautiful, wonerful feelings.....so at home, dreamy and suicidal, but space cadeting...halp.

I think science is similar to magic like mathematicians are the new magicians.....I believe in magick because ive experienced it first hand....although I'm not a wiccan I have a friend who is now kinda famous who believed really strongly about it......and even hand wrote his own grimoire.....he just had all kinds of crystals....heaps of herbs and gums and resins and this awesome cauldron.....but he used to call us at 3 o'clock we used to go to the cemetery and chant and stuff.....I think chanting was my favourite part because its so relaxing and u can feel energy being built in the circle and was just really interesting to learn the stuff like rituals for the sabbaths because u can tell it happened a long time ago and it felt good to re connect with the old stuff and nature especially .....mind u things started to get a bit weird when he ordered the lesser key of soloman off the internet.... i dont know if you heard of the Goetia but its kind of like the devils bible we even started to read into that was interesting at first but got over it....alot of things would happen when we practiced rituals and stuff....I would encourage anyone to do it....its all just about connecting with nature u know assisting the growth of the new and decay of old and being a part of the driving force that creates change in the bush or forest wherever u live......I have seen things that are just so symbolic and weird that just make me think wow all this shit is real......ive just been thinking i want to start practicing again and getting my own cauldron and herbs and stones 🙂

Posted by TheMoodyVulcan
I wish I could remember where I originally heard or read it from but I always recall a quote about magic simply being science that we don't understand yet. And I think that there are probably a lot of Christians out there who are unaware of how many of their traditions are actually rooted in Paganism, which is not a slight against them of course, history just has a way of forgetting sometimes. Christmas trees and the "Easter Rabbit" for example are Pagan staples from times when the easiest way to help Pagans convert was to incorporate their own beliefs into Christianity.

I was raised in a strictly traditional Roman Catholic setting that I never questioned until an unfortunate incident during Christmas mass several years ago. Since then I've explored multiple religions, maybe out of curiosity, maybe in search of answers for life's questions, it's hard to tell when one reason easily blends into another. Over the years though I've settled fairly comfortably into a balance of Buddhism and splashes of Wicca. There's something beautifully symmetrical and dare I say logical about finding a balance between light and darkness, good and what I refer to as the necessary evil. One can't exist without the other, right?

When it comes to the paranormal there have really been far too many experiences with it recorded over human history to just throw the possibilities away. If energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transferred, perhaps that's what we know to be ghosts? The human body is really just matter animated by electrical pulses, our thoughts being the product of millions of synapses firing tiny bolts of lightning.

But then again, I also like to think that people with psychic abilities are the results of ongoing evolution. We all have a sixth sense that we can't explain to some degree, and if the average person carries with them around three genetic mutations, whose to say that one of those variations along all those strands of code couldn't enhance the senses enough to allow for precognition, amounts of telepathy or astral projection? Sorry for the ramble lol. Couldn't help myself on such an interesting topic.

+1 thanks for sharing this 🙂

It's interesting when going through Lisabeth's youtube video made me look into it further but the whole transmitting of some sort of signature energy from our bodies. Not saying that it is indeed our spiritual energy but it does somewhat make a bit of sense from a scientific standpoint whether it can be proven or not it's a bit like Kirlian photography and seeing our own auras (I'm still somewhat skeptical of that for some reason).

@TheMoodyVulcan: sheer curiosity, why buddhism and wicca? and what practices? I love what you said about pagan roots dating back, it's something I don't say often for I fear it might spark some sort of debate 😛

@eleventh: Do you know which branch of wicca? If you're keen you should look into shamanism and druidism and I admit graveyards (frowned upon by many) is a great place there's a lot of spiritual energy to tap into. I find it to integrate with astrology quite well seeing we keep an eye on the lunar cycles and moon's influences.

Beware of faith in religion, science, and other people. All will lie, misdirect, and corrupt your soul. Have faith in yourself because truly, the other three have no power without your faith.

I love talking about these things 🙂 Well generally I love talking about a lot of things!

I guess I failed to reach above the stigma of Asian cultural practices just seeing it first hand from my dad side of the family. They place a lot of faith and are almost dependent and if you dare to go against it you are outcasted. I guess that can be said for all religions. There will always be people who believe their way is the right way and therefore the eternal conflict but that's probably a topic for another thread.

I like your take on Wicca because that's my view on paganism itself and you are right the spells we practice to me are simply formalities comparable to say meditation to clear oneself of all thoughts and harness whatever raw spiritual energy. As for me being the last kid from my mum I felt it would be good to keep up the tradition and learn its ways.


🙂

hehe can't say I'm not a massive nerd myself! Vulcans are my favourite!

In a nutshell for things to make better sense I'm a bastard child. Father is Asian and Mother is Danish/German. I was sent to live with my father in Taiwan as a kid. Taiwan unlike China has had its share of bloodshed and war apart from the Pacific War which many know there are also disputes on the land with the indigenous people so throughout history much of it was a turf war between the natives, chinese and Japanese. Sorry for the back story but I think it'll add to the story.

Basically for my generation like most other post war-torn countries we're pretty much subjugated to routine and structure and the belief that there's only one way seeing that's how my grand parents have learnt to survive. Thing is a majority of the Taiwanese POW have actually come to adopt the strict environments of the Japanese. Irony is the country itself is corrupted and whatever order they want to instill people often use religious icons for personal gain and also makes most of the population ridiculously racist.

SO, as the outsider kid from what I observe is that tradition and especially the religious practices were always used and forced upon people. If I had to stay back after school I might be given a reasoning in that prayers have been made for me to do well so I MUST follow it hence the reasons for all the tutoring. Religion preaches peace but can't help but think it's become a device to contain fear and superstition when anything minor occurs one would have to consult the appropriate deity and exorcise the said demons. Again you are forced to participate because bad omens and karma will haunt you if you choose not to. Everything was so confined and felt restricted and I often wonder why no one questions this.

But for all that, they are my personal views. It'll be unfair to say what others do are not right because they all have their own reasons. My mum has had a great influence for me because she's always been very open-minded, she might've been against my father's ways but she actively helped me to learn about buddhism. I'm trying to be open-minded about it all like my mother was. It's just all the relatives from my dad's side are very into superiority complex, the idea that hierarchy is being rich means you are better and powerful because one believes.

*shrugs* I'll work it out someday but it really isn't my cup of tea.