Your Thoughts?

on this article... http://www.wral.com/news/5532271/detail.html#

I'm not religious at all. But if a business wants to put "Merry Christmas" instead of caving into political correctness and putting "Happy Holidays" then they should have the right to do so. It always seems to be Jews who complain about Merry Christmas being offensive to them. I wouldn't be offended if a Jewish business owner wanted to put Happy Hanukkah, and I doubt if anyone else would. Plus, Christmas is an official American holiday. I just get so tired of people who get offended by the most ridiculous things.

It's stupid petty about this stuff anymore.It's a time of celebration mainly for kids but grumpy adults seem to not care about that at all anymore.Doesn't matter if they are christain or jewish cause both over ride each other so doesn't take a genius to figure it out that it still is a wishing well type thing correct to your religion or not.

Hehehe primegen, I don't shop at Wal-Mart because I think in 15 years every single store will be called Wal-Mart. Kind of like that crappy Sylvester Stallone movie "Demolition Man" that takes place in the future and Taco Bell is the only place to eat at.

Yeah you're right. It's usually Abe Foxman and the ADL types who get pissed off about seeing the words "Merry Christmas". Israel has so much power in America I doubt that there billions in aid every year will be ending soon. lol

You know what I find so funny about this whole "Merry Christmas" thing?

Noone even cares about Jesus Christ's role in the whole day anymore. Well, I mean there are SOME who do but the majority of Americans don't give a second thought to the "true" meaning of Christmas when celebrating it.

As a child, when you return to school, noone asked you how you rejoiced in the spirit of Christ or how many people you showed brotherly love to...No it's all about "What did you RECEIVE for Christmas and who got the best toys"

As an adult, you start stressing in say early November about all the food you have to prepare for the family that is coming (Most of whom you don't really want to see because they get on your nerves) buy all the gifts you can for your ungrateful little brats, annoying family and fairweather friends to "prove" your love, not to mention how you are going to drag yourself out of debt once the holidays are over. But you do give a gift to the local charity which fufills the whole "Jesus" part of it. Let's face it...most Americans just don't celebrate the religious/spiritual aspect as much as the commercial.

I fail to see the significance of the whole debate. Everything has to be so politically correct and the main people who are fighting for the right to say it, don't care about the "true" meaning of Christmas...while the people who are against it are just BORED and need some fruitless cause to get behind so their lives seem more meaningful. What's next? You can't give thanks before you eat in a crowded cafeteria because you might offend someone...PLEASE!

It's actually kinda more offencive to catholics if you really like about it,not a catholic but don't follow any religion either though lol,everyones intitled to believe in what they will POV more than anything.Your singling them out because they celebrate christmas and want them to not celebrate thier holidays to suit your "standards" of offences.It's hippocritical and repressing to catholics when they(the complainers) get thier way with these things.

CL and primegen, I agree that Christmas has lost it's true meaning. But at least their are still plenty of Christmas songs about the true meaning. Do you remember that Southpark Christmas special where Jesus and Santa were on stage singing? Jesus was singing all of the songs about him and Santa was singing songs about him. Then Santa can't think of any more songs so he starts singing "Rio" lol. I also agree that conservatives and liberals use it to push their political agendas.

Tiamat, why would it be more offensive to Catholics? Because of their focus on Mary? My sister converted to Catholicism a little over a year ago and I've gone to Mass with her a couple of times. At this church at least, Mary was mentioned but they didn't consider her to be above Jesus. Although I have heard that before that they only worship Mary.

Branh, if that guy and other PC liberals don't like "In God We Trust" on our bills. Then they can all empty their banks accounts and give it to me. I'll spend it well. >🙂
lol

primegen were you raised Catholic? I was a Baptist growing up. Some of the worst people I've ever met were at church. Which is a big reason why I was so turned off by religion.

No,no,no,by not wanting employees and owners of stores who are catholic to put up merry chritmas signs and stuff.Alot of the time the owners give the employees free reign of that stuff to do as they please for the holidays,they should be allowed to if thier boss gives the go ahead to it.Im trying really,really hard right now to not think of a business that doesn't have an employee christmas party for the employees because they do celebrate christmas and want to do so among co workers.

Primegen: may I ask you something? I gather you are quite proud of being a Catholic yes? Do you as a upstanding Catholic, follow all the directives of the current Pope Benedict, the leader of the Catholic Church? Or do you ignore some of the more controversial of his dictates? What would you stance be on homosexuality and abortion? It's funny you should mention Sinead O'Connor because she is seen regularly walking down the main street here in the town I live in! Yeah I agree whe was totally OTT tearing up a picture of the former Pope on television and also ordaining herself a female priest.It was too extreme, in my opinion, to get any valid point but was viewed by me as another one of her exhibitionist stunts. I wouldn't like to call myself a devout Catholic. I like the good messages and I ignore the oppressive dogma.

Another thing: when I ask somebody what religion they are and they say they are nothing or are atheist, I then ask them what it says on their birth certificate and national record statistics as this is what is used in compiling statistics on the religious ratio of the population

Lazlow

OMG I was raised Babtist (I guess) and WHOA! I have never met a more hypocrital bunch of people. Not all Baptist are I'm sure but my church experience after the death of my Minister Grandfather was so horrible that I am SO against organized religion it is ridiculous. I still have my Christian belief base so I do many of the things related to that like occassionaly read the bible and pray etc. but my religion is the Golden Rule.

LOL When I was in Atlanta, the churches had gotten so bad as to check your credit before you could join! I could NEVER go to a church where I feel like I can't "afford" it.

LMAO

I said Babtist! I meant Baptist...

Oh ok Tiamat, sorry about that. Just a miscommunication.

Primegen, I think the people who turn away from Christianity or whatever religion ARE the ones who have questioned it the most. And because I think about and question the bible, the more and more I strayed away from it. Some folks like to interpret the bible the way they want to see things, so they can still be good Christians. But the bible isn't open to interpretation. It says what it says and that's it. If they don't like what it says they shouldn't be a part of it, and that's what I did. Who knows maybe years on down the road I might find my way back to the Christian faith. But for now I still believe in a God but choose to stay away from religion.

LOL cancerlady, I see you were a Southern Baptist too. Then you know exactly how I felt. Plus there were a bunch of old people at the church that I went to. CL, are you looking to find a new church because of the baby? That's kind of what my older sister did.

lol then definitely stay away from Scientology because I've heard you have to be rich to join that group.

BTW why are there ads at the top and bottom of the page of anything we mention on this thread?

Lazlow

I am by no means looking for a church...I don't really believe in organized religion and the "church" anymore. As far as my children, I will let them choose for themselves when they get older, but I will probably send them to a Sunday School or something.

I did go to a church down in the ATL one time...This guy came and got me from the bus stop and invited me to come to the evening talk with the minister. I went and got a very good message from them. Something I REALLY needed to hear at the time...I am not against tithes so I gave them like five dollars for the pastor. (Was really more than I could afford at the time but whatever) Anyway, when it was over, the pastor commences to go on about how God wants me to come to church every Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, and Sunday for these seminars and "messages from God" and how it costs $ 10 a session...Excuse the heck out of me but I thought God's message was free! It's all about the money! People are becoming Ministers not because they were "called" but because it is a lucrative business. Come on, everything you buy is tax-free!

CL/Cm2

I don't have that religious stuff on my birth certificate but have heard of it and I guess they don't do that anymore.What I mean by not following a religion is that I don't believe there is a god(but do believe there is spiritual energy) and don't follow a religion,however I guess im a little more of an atheist than whats known as an athiest is too because I don't blow it off as myth completely either because of science.All the major scientific breakthroughs in logic has all had it's doubt because it was known as "illogical" at the time that it was in the process of it's discovery and coming up with the proof for it.Like some people are talking about questioning religion,im questioning and looking into all of them but haven't had one stand out but I do have my perceptions on what it's supposed to mean to me and may agree with it on a moral or ethics standpoint,thats how I think religion works is it's the one that people identify with the most when they choose a religion.But as well,alot of the basic beliefs are the same in most of the religions so thats another reason I won't choose one yet,that is if I ever do.

Also like people are talking about as a reason I won't choose one is because it can lead to abuse of the religion for personal uses and not to mention when it's allowed to enter into politics with war and the abuse of people possibilities attached to it.Everything I read in a holy scripture has everything to do with humanity and wanting to help people and I agree with those POV's but don't like the way most followers use thier religions,it doesn't have anything to do with the religions beliefs to judge people or want to harm them.Then they say it's because they fear for the peoples soul and "is" trying to help them-whatever it's wishing ill-will unto people because they don't agree with you is my take on that.It's more organised religions I have issues with,ya know it wasn't no church or pastor jesus himself was using to worship so alot of things that are judged has nothing to do with the belief someone has,it's superficial stuff most followers focus on,not the deeper meanings.Im not willing to give anyone a big head to think they are entitled to doing it more if they have someone to agree with them.

For instance,like primegen already touched on the catholic and wiccan religions clashing most of the time.Although wiccans don't believe in satan they do know what "evil" means and yes it is an insult to call one that.A true wiccan believes in a threefold law which is karma,meaning whatever things bad you do to harm people you will have it returned to you three times.They believe thier powers should ONLY be used to help people and should never go into wanting to harm people.Jesus himself had power to heal and used it to only heal as well,so it's like saying thier own savior is evil as well if they were to actually read into wicca.Basically wicca is a religion but witchcraft itself are too different things,it's the magic users intentions that can be "evil" not just the use of it or what they follow.Native american medicine men again was to help people,shamanism(it's asian not n.american which is usually confused and mashed into one stereotype)to help people,buddism,etc.Catholics,jews,muslims,etc. aren't entitled to label something evil especially when they don't know what it's used for and actually is okay with thier own religions because of the intentions that it is used for when doing so.I don't see any of them(the religions alone) to be right or wrong in any way.

Yeah,they are guilty of it too,I only found one wiccan site that doesn't go around judging catholics and other religions followers with stuff like that.I think thats mainly because it's not a straight up wicca site though,it's more of a earth based religion site that has some hindu's,catholic's,buddist's,shamans,native american medicine men and even satanist getting along.They also are willing to talk and take the real hard facts that thier religion has got some dirty hands too about the murder of catholics on the fault of pagans,unlike the other wicca sites.Most even have that "fluff bunny" nickname for other wiccans too,the superiority issues rearing it's ugly head with that one.I guess im doing it too lol due to religion as well I have my perception on what it means and it disagrees with the mass of followers of all of the religions,guess im just solitary in my own belief of what it should be about which is the religion alone.


What I meant by wiccans belief for using only good is that thier religion thats what they are supposed to believe,the religion itself not so much based on the followers.The religions are fine by thier selves it's the masses I got issues with due to the judging based on religion.I got some disturbing responses from wiccans accusing my mother of being judgemental and stuff on one of those sites because I posted that she was catholic,shes also the very person who was interested in dabbling into wicca and other forms of mysticalism when I first heard of it when my aunt and a wiccan friend came around and the reason they were bringing over the books and such.She was curious and some things stuck with her even though catholicism is still the main source of her own beliefs.Yeah,I know that cathlicism is a mesh of cultures and beliefs.I think the paths people take shouldn't be as much of a concern to people,it gets into politics and isn't about religion anymore when that happens.

Primegen you need to be much more careful about how you word your opinions. This is a very sensitive subject that you commented on. You are not a woman so you will never be in this situation yourself so all your thoughts on the matter will only ever be theoretical. I ask you to tone down your verbal onslaught. It is highly offensive and actually does not strenghen any of your arguments. When you express yourself with

Primegen you need to be much more careful about how you word your opinions. This is a very sensitive subject that you commented on. You are not a woman so you will never be in this situation yourself so all your thoughts on the matter will only ever be theoretical. I ask you to tone down your verbal onslaught. It is highly offensive and actually does not strenghen any of your arguments. When you express yourself with language like that it gives the impression of you being a ranter.

"For all our civility that we claim, this is a very barbaric practice. I don?t feel this way because the church told me, but because I learned about it and realized what actually happens. Sure if the Mother?s life is endanger, we need all options on the table including abortion. But at least 70% of abortion are done because the woman feels she doesn?t want the baby, not for medical or rape reasons. This is barbaric to kill for no reason and makes us no better than the worst nazi that walked the planet.
"

How dare you say this. I really think men like you should stick with prostitutes and don't bother with real women.

Look at you grabbing at any insult you can find to try and bat me down! Keep to the argument Primegen. Don't make any assumptions about me.

You always add the useless bit at the end don't you Primegen? As far as I'm concerned I'm not making any assumtion. I am taking your derrogatory remarks as a dig at women in general. You are assuming I'm an E.U. pinhead. And what's this about the Kyoto Agreement! Stick to the argument Primegen and don't go grasping at straws.

wow...Virgo's on here hold no punches about sharing their opinions!

I'm not telling you you can't have an opinion. What bit of what I have said made you think that Primegen? Please enlighten me. I am not suggesting that "killing babies is so great". It's highly distasteful. Please enlighten me as to when I said or implied this? I said that a woman can have many many reasons why she chooses to have an abortion or not and it is not down to you or me to judge her. Even saying what you said earlier is just unacceptable. I don't really feel like continuing this debate if that's how you're going to speak. You just sound surly and truculant.

Just reading back over what I just typed. I meant the way Primegen expressed himself is highly distasteful anf not what preceeded the sentence.

You talk about yourself as if you are a hero! Actually what I said was that I am not willing to persue this debate with you if you are going to express yourself in the derroagotry way that you do. I will discuss this further if you chose to moderate your language.

By the way it was a MIStranslation to have taken my comments to mean I was telling you to shut up. If that's what I wanted to say then that's what I would have said 🙂

This is kind of what I mean in the way you don't like to be contradicted and any contradiction you do run into you lash out at.

OK guys, let's all sing "Kumbaya" (sp?) together. And keep the peace!

OH my bad Primegen...I always thought you said you were a Virgo...What is your sign Pray tell?

Good morning one and all. Primegen: you sound like you feel under undeserved attack for simply stating your views. I have never said that you cannot have an opinion; this is just your projection of it because I happen to be strongly disgreeing with your communication style of using insuting language and references when all you needed to say was that you don't agree with abortion and then explain why. Like I said, I notice you up the verbal tempo when you run into somebody who challenges how and what you express yourself about a subject. As you told me "If you don?t like the answer, don?t ask the questions. Otherwise, get a helmet and suck it up!"

I have noticed a few times in different threads that you will regularly turn it towards your pet hate of (American) women and how materialistic and money grabbing they are with men. First of all I found the way you stated your point to be crude and insulting. Secondly American women are just a subsection of ALL women in the world; the two groups are not mutually exclusive. It's like saying that you find Amercian coca cola to discolour your teeth and give you a stomach pain; if I am a manufacturer of this product in a country outside America, then I will still nonetheless want to defend my product as the constituents that make up coca cola are intrinsically the same whether they be manufactured in America or Europe or Africa.

So to conclude you are mistaken to suggest I am trying to silence you Primegen. I am, however, disagreeing strongly with what you have posted. I hope you can appreciate this and perhaps have a civilized discussion about it without resorting to gratuitous nastiness.

Don't try to be patronizing Primegen or I might think you're trying to silence me 😉

I don't need to read up on anything except your post to give my critique on what you say. Please stop trying to bring in extraneous things such as other users and the EU and Nazi's. It is completely irrelevant. Let other users speak for themselves and please don't liken me to or even suggest that I am resembling a Nazi - it makes you sound absurd.

Yet AGAIN Primegen - I feel like I'm repeating myself - I am not trying to silence you but it is not accepatble to say something in such a way that it is an incitement to nastiness and is not simply stating your case in a calm and collecting and balanced way. You are against abortion, I say that it is a woman's right to choose. But if you feel justified in adding vicousness and contempt to your remarks then I will strongly object.

"...suck it up and deal..." What does this mean exactly? I'm afraid I can't find it in my Collins English Dictionary. All it sounds is pretty vulgar to me.

...and it's also not valid English. I happen to think that when you, Primegen, made your orginal remarks about predatory women who are hunting men for their wallets, it was a stab at all women to a certain extent. May I ask you then to define and classify more precisely what is this exclusive group of women you are using to pin your cynical charges, is comprised of? Is it just that they are women and American? Or is it a bit more complex than that? Women and feminism are inextricably linked, as are women and abortion because feminsm is about the women's movement and abortion is the procedure whereby a woman has her pregnancy terminated, respectively. Therefore when you make a statement about one, this impinges on the other.

May I also ask you another question: if you are against abortion , if there was a vote to remove the right of a woman to have an abortion if she so chooses, would you vote in favour of this? In other words would you be in favour of taking away their free will of being in control of their own bodies?

And finally Primegen, I do have a right to take acception if I find you insulting.