What are you?

me:independent libertarian some centrist beliefs...

Posted by Mr. Defense
I'm a libertarian, but I'm very much about capitalism and free market. The fiscal aspect of libertarianism draws me to it. While I am for a lot of social liberal things politically, I personally have very socially conservative views. I just think policies concerned social issues should be about choice and freedom, though in my personal life I may be against those things. I just don't believe my personal convictions should be the law of the land.

Pretty much this ^.

Which is Classical Liberalism.


Classical liberalism is a political philosophy that supports individual rights as pre-existing the state, a government that exists to protect those moral rights, ensured by a constitution that:

-- protects individual autonomy from other individuals and governmental power

-- private property

-- [and employs] a laissez-faire economic policy

The "normative core" of classical liberalism is the idea that in an environment of laissez-faire, a spontaneous order of cooperation in exchanging goods and services emerges that satisfies human wants. (Capitalism, baby) 😉


Change in meaning

The term "liberal" changed meaning in the 1930s. Since then Classical Liberals are called "Conservatives" or "Libertarians" in the United States; in the rest of the world, especially Europe and Japan, classical liberals are still called liberals.

Classical Liberal

CONSERVITIVE SOME WHERE TO THE RIGHT OF THE AMERICAN TALK SHOW GUY EL RUSHBO.

Reagan Conservative who believes in small government, lower taxes, strong defense and freedom from oppressive people.

If you are a registered democrat today, then FUCK YOU. I don't even want to entertain you idiotic and ignorant lowlifes.

Even President Kennedy would have nothing to do with you losers today, and would most likely vote Republican if he were still alive.

Wassup, Cowpuncher! Long time, no see.

I agree with most of your political points, BTW.

Posted by cowpuncher

Posted by ScorpioFish
Wassup, Cowpuncher! Long time, no see.

I agree with most of your political points, BTW.

Well, since I'm still a Cap, what's up is work work work work work work work work work and now and then a jam session/bbq for fun. 🙂 I can't complain though, I'm putting a lot of money back into savings during the Obama economy, the worst economy since the Great Depression. Plenty of people out there would do anything to be busy with work.

click to expand

Precisely.

*************** *************** ***************

Thank you, Montgomery. I love that clip!

i WAS IN THE PUB ONE NIGHT SOME AMERICANS WERE THERE
I GOT IN A CONVERSATION WITH ONE WOMAN SHE INFORMED ME THE RIGHT THING WAS TO BE PRO CHOISE
SO I SAID I AGREED BUT MY GOVERNMENT DIDNOT AGREE
SHE SAID WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOUR GOVERNMENT IS PRO CHOISE
I SAID NO HERE ARE CHOISES I WOULD MAKE AND MY GOVERNMENT SAYS NO
#1 I WOULD OWN A GUN THEY THINK I MIGHT SHOOT SOMEONE
#2 I WOULD DRIVE AND DRINK THEY THINK I MIGHT KILL SOMEONE
#3 I WOULD EAT FATTENING FOODS THEY SAY ITS BAD FOR ME
#4 I WOULD BEAT UP PEOPLE I DON'T LIKE OH MY GOD BAD TATE
THE ONLY THING IT SEEMS I CAN DO IS KILL BABYS IF I WANT TO.

JUST SO EVERYONE KNOWS I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS A GOD
BUT I AM PROLIFE BECAUSE IF THIS IS ALL THAT THERE IS
THEN EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE THERE SHOT AT IT.

Not sure how the lefties in Wales feel, but this is how the lefties feel in the USA:

They want to pardon and save the lives of convicted murderers, but they want to murder babies and children without thinking twice about it.

Yes, they are mentally ill people.

Yes, they are in charge of our government.

Yes, I pray a lot more than I used to since it's about all I have left with these creeps.

LIBS ALL OVER THE WORLD ARE LIBS
THERE MAY BE A LIGHT ON IN THE ATTIC
BUT NO ONE IS AT HOME.

Posted by james tate
JUST SO EVERYONE KNOWS I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS A GOD
BUT I AM PROLIFE BECAUSE IF THIS IS ALL THAT THERE IS
THEN EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE THERE SHOT AT IT.

🙂

Libertarian, fiscally conservative. I was against the isolationist view of the Libertarians, but I seem to be drifting closer to it as time goes by.

Posted by VirgoMerlot
Libertarian, fiscally conservative. I was against the isolationist view of the Libertarians, but I seem to be drifting closer to it as time goes by.

That is one of two aspects of Libertarianism that I've never been fond of, either.

It's extreme, imo.

What's causing you to reconsider?

Posted by cowpuncher

Posted by Montgomery

Posted by VirgoMerlot
Libertarian, fiscally conservative. I was against the isolationist view of the Libertarians, but I seem to be drifting closer to it as time goes by.

That is one of two aspects of Libertarianism that I've never been fond of, either.

It's extreme, imo.

What's causing you to reconsider?

Minding our own business as a nation is not "isolationist", it's just good common sense that worked out very well for us while our nation still did it. That's the Libertarian view.

Face it, should we really be defending every single border on the planet with the exception of our own Southern border? Do we really need to keep pouring trillions into "Saving" people who have always hated us, still hate us, and are going to keep on hating us tomorrow?

imho, nope.

click to expand

Isolationism, as defined by Merriam:

: a policy of national isolation by abstention from alliances and other international political and economic relations


Alliances are good; I like them, and I think they are valuable.

As for economics-- I won't argue it simply because economics is not my strong suit-- but that doesn't mean I agree.

And no, I don't think we should "keep pouring trillions into "Saving" people who have always hated us, still hate us, and are going to keep on hating us tomorrow?"

Not at all-- I think they should be either left alone, or conquered totally.

IF YOU STAY OUT OF THE WAY AND LET THE WORLDS PEOPLE DO AS THEY WILL (THE MIDDLE EAST)
THEY WILL KILL EACH OTHER OFF. PROBLEM SOLVED.
WWII WE HAD TO JUMP IN ONLY JUMP IN WHEN YOU HAVE TO.

I'm a socialist but I respect libertarians even if we are on opposite sides of the ideological fence. I respect Ron Paul and am no fan of Obummer's foreign or domestic policy let alone his treatment of whistle blowers. So much for transparency or change we can believe in. How long are we going to let Obummer blame his own crappy decisions on his predecessor? For me, his quarter ran up a long long time ago.

I THINK YOU NEED RE ED U MA CATION CAMPS FOR
SOCIALIST IN AMERICA WE NEED THEM
IN THE U.K. TOO

Posted by cowpuncher

Even should we as a nation want to continue playing the Pax Americana game, how are we going to foot the bill for it much longer? It's a catastrophe.

Likewise, "Alliances" are supposed to work two ways. We have some good allies - Notably all of the English speaking nations... Britain and all of our cultural sibs like the Aussies. (Btw, EVERYWHERE US Soldiers have fought since WWII, there were Aussies right there beside them, too few realize that). That's an ally.

Indeed, they are, among others.

I don't disagree with any of that; who would? 🙂

If Libertarians don't subscribe to Isolationism-- all the better.

But our most recent example of Libertarianism (publicly, anyway), Ron Paul, *did* subscribe to it, as far as foreign alliances were concerned.

He wanted none; not even the productive ones from countries that paid back all aid received, and contributed useful technology.

If he is the anomaly among Libertarians, then that's good news.

Surprising, but good.

Posted by cowpuncher

What about many of the others, are they all keeping up their end? Are they maintaining enough of a military to provide for their long-term national defense? Or are some of them pouring their money elsewhere, and just skating on that because the dumb 'murcans are obligated to defend them?

Not knocking South Korea, but they are a prosperous, populous nation. WHY are we spending money to defend them over a half century after real hostilities ceased over there? Given 50 years of time to prepare, I'd think they could? Why not?

We have spent trillions on wars in Iraq and Afghanistan... So, how is that "winning hearts and minds" thing working out for us? They still hate us. Always have, still do, always will - Trillions of dollar

click to expand

Ahh-- arming the Syrian rebels *after* the Muslim Brotherhood got to them?

The billions to Egypt, yearly?

The Iraqis who got caught with their pants down, both literally and figuratively, by Amnesty International on horrific human rights violations?

Yeah, like I said before-- conquer them, or cut them off.

Even the women hate the U.S. more than oppression; so leave them to it.

Israel is our only real ally over there, I believe-- the rest are turning out to be a gross waste of tax dolllars.

Posted by sealight
Libertarian here.

Why don't we unarmed each nation of the world Including U.S,Israel and Iran.
Human life is so valuable

You have to defeat someone before you can disarm them. 😉


Plus-- doesn't that kind of interfere with your Libertarian principles?

I call it like I see it. I don't belong to a particular political party. I am what you might call
a True Independent.

Reason for this, is that that I can see pros and cons in both the major parties and the third parties.

I no longer am able trust the system because I do not trust the parties that control it.
I've lived long enough and have seen waaaay too much in the real world to be naive.

Socialist. I don't believe a free market will ever pay labor what it is worth because the capitalists dictate salaries. Furthermore, 90+% of the real wealth is held in the hands of less than 10% of the population and most of that wealth is inherited. I believe that government exists to provide social services that help people and that provide safety nets. I do not believe in meddling in Middle Eastern affairs, patting us down in our private parts, snooping through our email and phone records, our bogus war on terrorism or the inflated military and defense spending. If we got out of the world's troubles, we wouldn't need a huge military & defense. But we're really not in the Middle East to make the world a safer place. We're there for the oil.

Having said that, I respect Ron Paul and agree with him about our foreign policy, the Federal Reserve and the egregious incursions of our civil liberties via FISA & Patriot Act. Additionally, I find libertarians some of the most well-informed political commentators out there. Hat's off to the libertarians. I'd like to be Dennis Kuchinich to your Ron Paul but we both know that won't work in the long term. Still you're one enemy I can truly say I respect.

I BELIEVE IN SOCIALIST IDEAS
ONE PUT EVERY ONE OF THE MOTHERFUCKERS IN A FUCKING CAMP
IF THEY DON'T WANT TO WORK IN THE MINES THEY DON'T EAT
TWO
SHOOT A COUPLE EVERYDAY TO KEEP THE REST IN LINE.

Posted by Este8
Socialist. I don't believe a free market will ever pay labor what it is worth because the capitalists dictate salaries. Furthermore, 90+% of the real wealth is held in the hands of less than 10% of the population and most of that wealth is inherited. I believe that government exists to provide social services that help people and that provide safety nets. I do not believe in meddling in Middle Eastern affairs, patting us down in our private parts, snooping through our email and phone records, our bogus war on terrorism or the inflated military and defense spending. If we got out of the world's troubles, we wouldn't need a huge military & defense. But we're really not in the Middle East to make the world a safer place. We're there for the oil.

Having said that, I respect Ron Paul and agree with him about our foreign policy, the Federal Reserve and the egregious incursions of our civil liberties via FISA & Patriot Act. Additionally, I find libertarians some of the most well-informed political commentators out there. Hat's off to the libertarians. I'd like to be Dennis Kuchinich to your Ron Paul but we both know that won't work in the long term. Still you're one enemy I can truly say I respect.

A Libertarian Socialist-- is that even possible?

Before I dissect your post (i.e. liberal [not libertarian] talking points), let me ask you: Do you think the U.S. is a good example of a truly Free Market?

FOR REAL I WOULD RATHER FUCK THAN FIGHT

Posted by cowpuncher
Conservative Libertarian. I have this apparently radical notion that people should be able to make up their own minds, live their own lives, and be interfered with as little as possible... whether that's me, or others who hold very different values and beliefs.

Only tyrants and petty tyrants want to dictate choices to others, and micro-manage the affairs of others. Oddly enough, they always want to fund their control freak schemes with somebody else's money as well, never their own.

Don't like guns? Don't buy one.

Don't like pot? Don't smoke it.

Don't like gay marriage? Don't marry someone of the same sex.

Don't like somebody else's religion or way of life? Don't partake of it.

Don't like what you see on TV? Turn the channel.

Don't like any of the problems we have today? Stop subsidizing and perpetuating them.

I believe in small government, and I think it's self evident that Govt destroys or monstrously overcomplicates everything it touches. Just look at modern food production, the health care industry, energy... or hell even education. The second the Federal Govt and it's central planners step in to "Save" us, it goes straight to hell. Usually at enormous expense.

A trickling Men

A-frickin-Men*

I'm Libertarian / Constitutionalist and very much against socialism.