Virgo Guy 'attacking' Sag Lady...Advice Needed!

Hello good people of cyber-Sag-dom 🙂

I would very much appreciate some good advice from Sag women on interpreting my current predicament (I use this word in the sweetest possible sense).

The Background:

I am 30, male and Virgo with Libra Moon Sign

She is 27, Sag with Leo Moon Sign (if I remember correctly...had too much wine)

We are both from the same Med country and both 'professionals' (I really hate this word but it seems everyone is using it) and both earning good money, with good potential in a major British city.

The 'Story'....(accompanied by drums and loud, agonised screams haha)

We met 'online' on Sunday 9th, at a dating site where we are both registered. It was late at night and she IM'd me. I replied, and we ended up exchanging wittisms for 4 hours until about 2 am (we both had work the next morning...both wasted haha). During our chat, we exchanged tel numbers and I proposed that we meet for coffee/lunch.

Fast forward last Sat (15th) and we meet centrally at 8pm. I take her to a lovely Italian where we enjoy a nice dinner with 2 bottles of house white (split 1.5/0.5 for me/for her). We leave at 11 and she is a bit drunk. I escort her to her flat, which is about 20 minutes away on the tube. She invites me in (it's too late, you may not get a train back etc etc). I say Yes of course, and we actually have coffee (haha the twist e? coffee really means coffee ahem).

All through the date, we have fantastic chemistry with constant teasing both ways and kissing/cuddling. She is a sweetheart and I cannot have enough of her (neither can she of me).

Then while we are all over each other in her flat, I tell her I never have sex on the 1st date. This is true, and it's one of my principles. I tell her that if a woman offers, she falls a lot in my regard. She then retorts 'so I have fallen down on your scale', to which I reply 'No, because we did not do it' (you nympho...thought but not said of course haha).

Long story short...we have some heavy kissing and cuddling throughout, and she attempts to mount me (this sounds like a cheap paperback e? sorry for offending any horse lovers out there haha) 2 more times. I valiantly resist, and after the last attempt she even asks me if I am a virgin (!!!). I reply Baby, I may be a Virgo but I ain't no Virgin let me assure you. I again explain the psychological barrier to sex on the 1st date principle and hopefully now she gets it.

We spent the rest of the night chatting and li

We spent the rest of the night chatting and listening to good music (no more alcohol involved?I am only human and may drop my guard against this sweet lunatic). In the course of this, she tells me that she is not sure what she wants right now (ding dong!), that she technically has a bf of 2.5 years back home and that the main reason for flying back home is to break it off with him (she has not been back for 6 months). She also tells me that she has been on 2 more dates originating from that dating site, but these did not work.

I keep telling her how much I like her and how I want to be with her?and she replies that ?I do not know her, so how can I be like that'.

She says that she is being honest with me, that she must see what happens with her ?current' boyfriend after she comes back next week. I have made it very clear that I will not give up the chase, and that I can see as being an item and painting the city red with our passion.

I have never before met someone with the same effect on me?someone so chilled and yet so fidgety at the same time. So unpretentious and witty, with none of the social hang-ups that most take for granted and accept.

We have this amazing chemistry?whereby we tease and ?push' each other all the time. Then, in instances where I or she say something which makes the other person momentarily angry, we look at each other, smile and then hug and kiss like mad rabbits haha.

Well, what do you think about this? What's the prognosis, Doc?

If I get burned, then so be it. This is one fire in which I am willing to jump with no logical thought, just pure emotion and instinct (just how it should be). Call me a dreamer and romantic, there is no other way I can be?

The funny thing is that Virgo is supposed to be the logical and reserved one, but in our case I am launching a full attack on all fronts and she keeps trying to rationalize the situation and tell me that I should apply logic and take it slowly (?you don't know me, I have a past, etc etc etc).

All input will be greatly appreciated at this time of great social unrest in the Vir-Sag kingdom (our own little piece of the universe).

F

Dear LikeBrad,

Thank you very much for your great reply and advice, I appreciate it so much!

Some replies to your comments below:

> fidgety
Yes, this is what a Sag is. Hence the talk about bf back home. Also the feeling she's now fallen within your score system. It will even get worse once she finds out she needs you.

1) She has obviously not fallen that low, or I would cal her a slut and move on (I have no time for sluts, sorry).

2) 'once she finds out she needs you.? What do you mean, please explain...


Chances are she'll try to get rid of you. And if you cannot convince her you'll come with a triangle. At least ten years ago I achieved this result. I was not sure about a Virgo. We were negociating. He cheated on me with his friend's wife.

1) Yes, I do get the feeling that she is 'warning' me and pushing me away, sayings things like "you don't know me' etc

2) There is no chance in hell I would cheat, not in my DNA. Far easier to move on...and that's the point, I don't want to move on before exploring all posibilities for a long-term relationship with her...


> I have made it very clear that I will not give up the chase, and that I can see as being an
> item and painting the city red with our passion.
Also good. Is this your moon in Libra choosing the words? Good job!

Haha no idea which moon that was, maybe the Full Moon :-)


> chilled...fidgety... unpretentious ... witty
This is all what Sag can offer. The stability part must be guranteed by you.

I can offer her all the stability she needs, but my worry is that (at 27 y.o.) she will not be able to appreciate it or make this kind of relationship work. It seems to me that she is not used to LTRs, just one night stands or fuck buddies.


> social hang-ups

Well, where we both come from (sunny Med country) people can be very pretentious and place immense value on how they are 'seen' by society. So people (men and women alike) go to the gym, dress up to go to ther grocer, etc. not for themselves, but more so that they are nott judged negatively. She appears to not be like that, which I like (I am somewhere in-between hehe). Does this make sense?


> makes the other person momentarily angry, we look at each other, smile and then hug and kiss like mad rabbits haha.
Fallen in love huh?

Only Zeus knows...


> The funny thing is that Virgo is supposed to be the logical and reserved one, but in our case I am launching a full attack on all fronts and sh

Damn it, why do my messages keep being cut in the middle! **** Haha

Ok, regarding your own 'predicament'. I think that there is always room for compromise. For example, I can 'see' even at this super early stage how I can be a stable force in her life, and how she can help me explore my artistic and more surreal side (we are both quite artistic, but she tonnes more than I am...). The same with you, but in order to have a meaningful relationship you must both be in the same postcode (or zip code as you call it in the US of A). Otherwise, it seems to me like you may want the cake and eat it too (like my own love interest might see it...hopefuly not).

Finally, I am normally a very confident (almost macho you could say, in the 'old fashioned' sense of the term) with no insecurities...However, with her I can see a time when I will be looking over my shoulder and blowing a month's salary on a PI to follow her around and bring me 'evidence' haha.

I am being paranoid already :-)

I really do not fully get this worry about losing one's freedom in a relationship...I know this is one of the so-called 'cornerstones' of the Sag personality.

I see it like this: Alone, I am strong man & Alone, you are strong woman. Ergo, United, we are invinsible.

I mean, I long for interdependence...neither dependence (in an abusive, 'lose myself' way) nor independence (the 'work hard play hard' bullshit 'doctrine' of modern society, whereby we live for a career and relegate our emotional life to the little league...).

Hi likeBrad,

Thanks again for the insightful advice!

What can I say...I have decided to take it slowly and back off for now. I have already sent her 'good morning' texts for the past 2 days with no reply. This, to me, indicates that she is either 'playing Monopoly' woth her ex or that she wants time off to assess the situation.

A big part of me is loosing interest as I feel 'played'. She did have a bf back home and nevertheless created an online profile and was on the dating scene again.

I am open minded in general and very few things shock me, but her behaviour is pushing my moral envelope, so to speak.

So often I wish I could be more of a 'hard bastard' and not get so emotionally involved, but I cannot help my nature too much (can you teach an old dog new tricks?).

I can even almost pinpoint the personality disorder(s) she probably suffers from (fear of commitment, etc) and yet I am still hooked! Talk about masochism e?

Life's a beach and then you drown :-)

...Oh, and talk about Sag bluntness: I saw her off at the airport last week, and I told her that I would miss her. I then asked if she would miss me, and she replied 'No, and I already told you that'.

Baaaaaaaaaam! Maybe too much for me, but at least she was not playing games...

I hope it works between you and your guy, you seem to be a well-balanced person with enough life experience to keep a LTR alive and kicking!

I think someone should re-brand heart pills (for strokes, etc.) and market them at the partners of Sag people. I really believe that they need them the most!

Hi Archer,

Thanks a lot for your reply! I have had wonderful replies from both you and likeBrad, very good!

I have noticed that many women do just that, i.e. point out all their faults in the early stages. I believe it's part of The Masterplan, of sending mixed signals to determine how devoted, genuine and brave the man is. I take this with a pinch of salt, meaning that the information registers for future reference but normally won't deter me (unless she says that she murdered her ex or something drastic like that haha). I can be VERY persistent and only give up after a looooooooooooong battle (one could say The Battle of All Battles).

The question in my mind is whether, based on the supplied info, she is open to genuine, deep emotional relationships. From what I have seen so far, she seems to be the 'one night stand' type, using sex to fill an emotional void and not allowing men to get close to her. This is also based on disclosed info on her early life (loss of father, etc). If that is the case (and I really hope it is not), then I will be very dissapointed to give it up because I really like her and see the chemistry between us.

Going over the past days in my mind, I have commited some cardinal sins when it comes to Sags :-) E.g., I told her that at my age, the next relationship will lead to marriage (I am 30 and anyway have always had serious relationships). She was taken aback by this hehe.

Also, what you wrote about the repeated 'mounting' attempts...I am sorry to say that, on that fateful night at her place after we went to bed, I tried to do it. She then brushed me off, saying something like 'not now' or 'too late now'. So yes, I yielded in the end! Now I am happy that it did not happen, because I would have been in way too deep and that's a recipe for distaster if things do not work out (I am a lot more sensitive than I seem).

When I told her about this principle I have, she really looked at me as if I was an alien from Sisius haha. It looked as if going back to her place and sex go hand-in-hand...

Glad to hear that sex is not the deciding factor :-)

Ascetism hahahaha you are killing me :-)

I am too young yet to leave my job and the big city lights to join a monastery...but if she came with me and was my personal 'Sister', then I would give it serious consideration!

We would work the land and make wine, for personal consumption and to seel to heathens for cold, hard currency (to be used for going on the odd holiday in the sun, because even ascetes need to expose their holy parts to the Sun God haha).

At the airport, just before we parted, I also gave her a little note saying 'I will miss you a lot'.

While having a coffee, I teared a piece off this brochure and put it in my jacket pocket. She saw this and asked why. I just smiled and replied 'you will see later'.

Then, just before we said goodbye, I went to one of the check-in desks (while a guy was being checked in) and wrote the message on the paper, with the desk as support. It was a funny scene, and the check-in attendant even asked the Chinese guy being served if we were together haha.

I like doing crazy things :-)

After handing the note to her, I asked her to promise to only read it when she got on the airplane. I have no idea whether she kept that promise (she threatened not to...).

Dear Archer,

You are right...I am guilty as charged of over-analysing the situation and coming unstuck! I should just go with the flow (her flow, and together against everyone else).

That childish quality I really adore about her...such a breath of fresh air, compared to many other women I know who are preoccupied by what people say/do/think...

I can see us playing like kids (at the airport, in public, in restaurants...everywhere!) and I cannot wait :-) I also like to spoil her...for example, while at the airport she said that she wanted to buy a particular mag. I made an excuse to visit the WC and came back with said mag. The juicy kisses I got were well worth it, I am happy to report!

Thank you for the advice and view into the Sag abyss...

What about texting on a regular basis? What I mean is...we normally text each other to say Good morning, and one morning I was too busy getting to work that I did not. She sent me a text, 'complaining' that she did not get her Goodmorning. Do Sag women normally expect a lot of constant communication, and what happens if their mate does not call or text for a day or two?

Btw, I cannot wait for her to come back so that I can launch the second wave of my attack hehe. The word 'Surge' comes to mind...

There is no other way...that's what I love about her, that child. I love the eyes on us when we horse around and go back to that age of innocence, without the bullshit grown-ups stress about.

I never try to change anyone...rather, I showe them another way. If they accept it fine, if they don't then that's fine too :-)

I don't know how to thank you for your encouragement to keep texting her. In fact, I am writing a message right now! Btw, if this backfires you will speak to my lawyer (I will represent myself, a la Heather Mills...that was a success haha).

Oh believe me...I am 1000% sure, like I have not been in recent memory and for anyone else! I am so sure that I will pursue her until she takes up a restraining order against me :-)

GMT 04:00 o'er 'ere, and my senses are slowly but surely leaving me...zzzzz...

Good night/good afternoon, and thanks a zillion for the great advice! I will keep you posted on this great saga!

Over and out,

F

Hi Atlantic Myst,

Can you elaborate on this please. Why would your cousin (and every other Sag you know) do this? Is it their way of not forming deep relationships, fear of commitment?

Thanks 🙂

'with big pleasure'...

You could not be more vague if you tried 🙂

Pleasure with Myst or with my love interest? The DaLikeBrad Code!

Archer: I could send you some pics of me in my sailor uniform 😉

LikeBrad: Treetrunk sounds like a sexual aid for an elephant haha.

'Sags are not good for people with small hearts' you wrote...maybe so, but I have a big heart. The difference is that I know where to draw the line, and will not share my heart with anyone else. If the flirting is to get some reassurance (insecurity) and is not acted upon, then I can live with that. If I have to constantly watch my back...well, no self-respecting person of any sun/moon sign would have that.

The ancient Pagan peoples had nailed this. No exclusivity, no hassle! Then religion came, with all these theories on monogamy...

likeBrad what do you mean by 'form people'? I have never heard this expression before :-)

I actually found this incident you described sweet, and this is something I would do too. I have lost count of the times I have stopped to chat to homeless or simply 'strange' looking people on the street. I like that they are more 'genuine' and often interesting (the stories they can tell) than the 'professionals' sweating/stressing to catch the next tube in the rat race...

Nevertheless, what I meant by my previous post was that, although I am normally very confident and secure, I would be very offended and scared if my mate flirted in front of me.

Also, Sag people are not famed for their loyalty from my experience (friends and even relatives). This particular girl has no qualms in cheating on her 'soon-to-be-ex' (?) with guys she meets on a dating site. Most decent, thinking men would interpret this as: 'This could be me one day'. Oh, and when I questioned her about this she refused point blank to discuss it. Sounds like someone is telling porkies here...

likeBrad your last post was harsh and uncalled for. I am not sending anyone to hell.

likeBrad,

Sags may be 'content people' as you wrote, but this often seems to be at the expense of the 'form' (verbal expression). It's ok to offer advice, but always remember to be respectful and treat others as they treat you (karma has a way of getting back to you).

I am using this forum to gain some insight into what is to me a new situation and a new type of behaviour. If I had all the answers, trust me that I would not waste anyone's time. I state an argument and wait for the counter-argument (thesis-antithesis). If what I have written here makes you want to relegate this topic to the dustbin of 'entertainment to kill the boredom', then you have missed a few episodes.

likeBrad: I apologise for perhaps being too quick to pass judgment. I really appreciate your input, as I do that from Archer and Myst 🙂

It's just that your 'send her to hell' post threw me back...

I see what you mean by form versus content. I would like to think I fall more into the latter category, but I cannot deny that words have the capacity to hurt me (only if they come from the mouth of a loved one...or that one person who has put a spell on me).

Archer: so true that anything worth having is worth fighting for...said like a true soldier (no room for 2 sailors on this forum haha).

Peace 🙂

Archer why did you hide your last post? This is getting too Machiavelian mwahahah...

Atlantic Myst that's what I am hoping against. For now, I am more than willing to give her a biiiiiiiiiiiiiig chance and see what happens when she is back. As I told her, the ball is in her court now.

I am not that closed-minded, really! Very few things can really shock me in this world (e.g. sex with 3-legged animals, 4 legs is OK-consented) hehe.

Said in jest and good faith, I hope I have not offended any animals 🙂

I liked the almond analogy, very deep and bitter-sweet (excuse the pun). I am open to PMs and all other kinds of gratuitous offers 😉

Hehe there we go again...don't tell me that you will be back after dumping you current bf 😉

Take care

Hi likeBrad,

That's why women are so good at multi-tasking...you have obviously been following my posts elsewhere (What if it were all nonsense?) and using them to mount your attack 🙂

I agree with you that it's not easy to conclude anything at this point, with so little info available. As you correctly pointed out, I therefore have no chance of doing it right (what does 'right' mean, anyway?).

I have this bad habit of over-analysing situations often. Analysis is good...but over- is not always required or welcomed, and can backfire.

Sorry to hear about the concert. So DXP is Plan B e?

All the best

PS I.m OK You're OK reminds me of a decent book on PAC theory 🙂

VC can stand for Viet Cong hahaha...should I take this as a subconscious, Freudian compliment?

Transactional Analysis is actually quite helpful, give it a look! Here is the book in question, with some notes on TA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I'm_OK,_You're_OK<BR>
You are so predictable, mixing and matching posts to attack my character and integrity 😉

But it's OK, you are forgiven (this time) haha.

It's not too late here in Londinium (22:00), but I have to get up tomorrow to go to the office early to prepare for this meeting. I can't believe I wasted the long Easter hols (4 days), mostly thinking about her and not being able to concentrate on the million projects I have at work...

Women are EVIL...as the Ancient Greeks used to say, the 3 greatest evils in the world are Fire, Woman and the Sea.

Alas, we gotta love them and chase them! The resulting hapiness makes all the heartache and emotional/energy investment so worthwhile!

Thanks, you too! Have a great week full of nice surprises and good vibes 🙂

Goodnight.

Hello ladies, and thank you again for your lovely counsel!

Peace...I am sure that Myst did not mean to offend you fumingli, and even if she did you are both instructed to bury the hatchet :-)

Myst: I don't know who to trust right now...I also remember the famous Trust No1 moto from the X-Files, that slogan must have done some serious damage haha.

Fumingli: I am European too (does Greek count? Perhaps Hairy European would be more accurate) and therefore familiar with the intricacies of European wit (no offence to our transatlantic friends, but they often 'fet it' long after the train has passed...if at all).

I like Chinese astrology, it's interesting that it has its basis on the year that you were born in, rather than on the actual date.

'Tis true what the Chinese say...snake and monkey don't mix well in the modern jungle. Who know...maybe monkey catch snake and swing it around in the air and then launch it off a cliff...

...or maybe snake fall from a tree or sneak up from behind and bite monkey on the a**, thus making monkey's life painful and full of worry.

In the end, who needs all this aggravation? All animals, irrespective of having fur or scales, should have respect for their fellows and live happily in harmony.

I am feeling playful today, even though I have had a very long day (even by snake standards)!

I also feel guilty for wasting 4 whole days thinking about her, when I should have done some bloody work to cover all the lost ground at work. Monkey made damage to snakey, and now snakey is all tied up in a psychological knot :-)

Peace all and please don't take me seriously...noone else seems to.

fet it = get it...

It's difficult to write proper English when you have a long tail and tongue and no arms or legs...not even a spine to support these heavy shoulders against the burden of a snakey's existence 😉

But do snakeys have shoulders anyway? Hmmm...answers on a postcard.

This is getting out of hand, steady now 😉

Now where did I put those heart pills haha

What a lame excuse Archer...

I hope kids are not reading this...if you are kids, remember: don't try this at home, we are unprofessionals 🙂

Btw someone owes me an email containing the Philosopher's Stone of winning over a certain Sag female...

That tongue is nothing without a cheeky brain to go with it, to direct it and make sure it hits the spot all the time...

I mean the intellectual spot, naturally!

No need to double-post Archer, we got you first time round...

Or are you a double agent? If so, ve have vays to make you talk 😉

And can you spot this annoying habit of posting a message and then hiding it.

This should be made illegal, and in your case punishable by extreme tongue-ture (yeah it's a lame joke, but I'm tired...).

Who said anything about trusting you? I don't even trust half of my own personalities, half of the time 😉

Angels...almost sounds a lot more fun than Angels haha.

That's what I love about my Sag friends, their extremely developed and cheeky wit. In my book, that's always a sign of a higher intelligence.

I also like it when they call a spade a spade and don't give a damn about being politically correct. Now that I think 'bout it, Sag is the perfect antidote to this sad, sterile and killjoy PC world we live in!

...and what would you do to me if I was not tired? C;mon, spill the beans on national TV, I dare ya 😉

That sounds like an indecent proposal to me 😉

Wearing this snakey totally out may prove to be harder than it sounds...don't forget, in addition to a twisty tongue I am also equipped with a tickly tail!

Moi, oideas? No way...

Monkey see, monkey do you mean?

🙂 Archer thanks a million for making my night 😉 (in more ways than you can imagine *wink wink*).

You took my mind of ---> The Unnamable One

The pleasure, the privilege is mine.

Bonne Nutela to you too, and check your inbox sometime 😉