Do you believe in the death penalty?

Personally, I think that those who do not value the lives of others, including animals, do not deserve to live themselves. I believe in an eye for an eye. What about you?

God gave us life and only he can take it away...

Now I know that's probably not the answer you were looking for but then look at it this way.

In a court of law to be prosecuted and sentanced to death is all about two sides...the defence and the prosecution, trying to out do each other at all cost which include finding loop holes in and bending the law.

No man has the right to take life from another unless in defence of his own in my opinion, least of all a judge in a man made court. For a judge to sign a man's life away through the death sentance is in my opinion to sign his own away and put him in bad stead upon his REAL judgement day before God.

I would also like to add to this that I am not a christian. The judgement day I talk of is called Karma.

In ending I say this to you...how can two wrongs make a right...—

God requires the death of someone that took a innocent life by murder. Read the gospels of John.

Durrie, I respectfully say to you, that the only way you can pose the question "how can two wrongs make a right?" is if you believe that both courses of action are wrong (the original killing AND the justice killing of the murderer). The original poster believes that it, in fact, is not wrong to take the life of a person who has killed another. So therefore, the original poster cannot answer your question.

"No man has the right to take life from another unless in defence of his own in my opinion..."

Isn't it a good method of defense (for all the rest of law-abiding society) to snuff out the life of a murderer or violent criminal? I think it's a pretty surefire defense, myself.

"For a judge to sign a man's life away through the death sentance is in my opinion to sign his own away and put him in bad stead upon his REAL judgement day before God."

Okay, but why would your opinion of what happens to a man's soul after his death have any influence on your view of the death penalty? Isn't is sort of in God's, Karma's or The Universe's "hands", so to speak, after death? Why would you be concerned more for the judge's soul than the continued earthly inhabitance of a threatening danger to society?

That should say, "Isn't THIS..." not, "Isn't IS..."

I agree. You have to be just as concerned with us mere mortals while here on this earth as you are with a spiritual being.

Yes, in fact possibly even MORE so, because everyone's view of what happens to us after we die is completely different.

-phoenix

I think it cruel!

Why? Can you elaborate on that?

the death penalty is barbaric. there are few countries in the world who practice it and the list grows shorter every year. it is supposed to be a deterrent but in fact statistics show in states that have it, murder is on the increase. it is a revenge tactic, many completely innocent ppl have died b/c they could not afford proper legal representation. a legal aid officer appointed to them usually only reads the case a few days / hours before trial..and most are inexperienced. then we can talk about the racism involved. per capita there are less white ppl on death row than black, native or mexican. if a black man kills a white man, he gets death. if a white man kills a black man, he's out in 15 yrs.

your pathetic attempts to argue verses from the bible won't wash i'm afraid. for every argument you put forward there is another that can rebut it. it's judicial murder and nothing more. gods not sitting at the bench- a judge is.

what i find really sick though, is the amount of americans who agree with it b/c they believe all the propogana fed to them by politicians. when are you ppl going to learn to think for yourselves—??

for every argument you put forward pro death, i can argue more strongly against it, backing it all up with empirical data. i think it's about time that all americans join humanity and learn the value of life and that torture is not acceptable under any circumstances!

oh..p.s.

as to your comment 'anyone who doesn't value life, doesn't deserve to live'. most homicides are committed through passion. this means it's a spur of the moment thing, and the intention to kill really isn't there. eg, domestic violence, finding your lover with another (oj). (this is not excusing the act) there are also many ppl on death row who have mental illnesses and have no bloody idea what they are doing or what is going to happen to them. and how about your policy on children? they too are not exempt from the death penalty...what if violence is all they knew b/c they grew up with it and had no one to guide them properly. should they die b/c his / her parents failed them? you should really start using your grey matter a little more. to have an opinion on such a strong subject, don't you owe it to yourself and all those truly innocents (regardless of the conviction) on death row a properly educated opinion. one that has been researched and read about widely.

it cost to much to keep them in prison.

" most homicides are committed through passion. this means it's a spur of the moment thing, and the intention to kill really isn't there. eg, domestic violence, finding your lover with another (oj). (this is not excusing the act) there are also many ppl on death row who have mental illnesses and have no bloody idea what they are doing or what is going to happen to them"

lawgoodess,

i think not! what does homicide mean; the definition is, the killing of another human whether it was intentional or not! there are differnt circumstances in each case.

there is killing without malice, manslaughter

there is intentional killing with malice and forethough, murder

there is the killing of another in self defense, excusable homicide.

there is intentional killing of another human that is done without forethoughty and evil design, justieable homicide.

my point is, the law is very broad and there are many different circumstances and excuses for some killing of another and then there is not. anything form of killing done with malice and forethought or evil intent deserves the unlimate penalty!!!

such as ted bundy, jeffery dhamer, charles manson(why they keep him around?) these people don't need to be alive. however, if you are going to have laws, then they should be applied evenly and consistentaly and this is what really drives my crazy!

...and this does tie in with biblical scripture and the commandment that "thou shall not murder" the bible does command to not kill it does however command us to not murder and if we do, our life should be taken for it. it works for me!

"a legal aid officer appointed to them usually only reads the case a few days / hours before trial..and most are inexperienced."

this can be true, but, i believe there is over sight on hours spent on these cases. with the exception of ny and tx being two that don't oversee handling of capital cases and it has in fact cost innocent people their lives. i think the criteria for a capital conviction should be much much much harder to obtain. i am so thankful they broke the dna code and are now using it not only convict the right person but to free those who have been wrongly convicted!!! i am glad i got to see this happen in my lifetime! i would rather see 100 guilty go free, than see one innocent man go to prison.

152,

I concur with your analogy on the act itself, but was trying to not blab on. Fact is though that most homicides are acts of passion..spur of the moment thing.. i am talking statistics and don't include premeditations...which I believe statisically are only 1% of all homicides. As I said, there is no ecusing it. My point was that the systme itself ISN'T consistent (as you say) and therefore there is incredible injustices occurring. Whether you are a believer or not, everyone deserves a fair trial, that is what democratic societies are based upon, and they aren't getting it, esp. for such a serious offence as murder.

There is so much that can be argued, I don't think we have the time or space to do it here.

LawGoddess,

You are so right!!! And it is up to us to change it!

Are you a member of the Justice Project? If not, and you are interested in changing the 'system' then I would like to give you the address.

We need all the help we can get. This all started with Barry Sheck who started 'Project Innocent' and has helped reform this situation and free alot of people and stop capital punishment.

Let me know if you want to get involved with it and I will give you the address!

Take care and lets do this together. We can make a difference!
S.

After doing a lot of thinking about it, I have somewhat changed my opinion on the death penalty. Not out of compassion for murderers but out of logic.

I believe that, for proven violent criminals, there should be a place for them to do hard, HARD labor rather than being on death row for the rest of their lives (thus the murderers etc. are in fact contributing to society but removed from it, thereby eliminating the threat of repeat offenders).

Any thoughts on this?

last post was from me, phoenix_rising

What about rehabilitation? Do you think that's an option? I have no probs with life meaning life but issues will arise with 'hard labour' b/c of human rights issues.

It would be nice to come up with a solution for all cases but I think it would have to be looked at ad hoc and there isn't enough time, resources or person power to do that.

No I am not a member of any program. Where I am from the death penalty was abolished nearly a century ago. Check out the Canadian co-alition against the death penalty site. It's a great site with not too much bullpooe but gives a closer perspective on things.

No, I do not believe in the death penalty. I wonder if this whole "idea" is about control. Who are we to have control over another humans life? Why do humans kill? Why have we killed since we've been here? What is it that is part of our make up to activate this "passion" of emotion to fulfill itself? We are HUMANS...we are capable of ANYTHING and if we can think of it, it has been done or will be done. These emotions that we posess, LOVE AND FEAR is what we bring forth in our daily actions. Someone who kills, uses violence, destroys etc....is coming from a place of FEAR. Life is about choices. The unfortunate thing for many of us is that we were not taught to LOVE, unconditionally and therefor we do not see that beautiful action coming from many of us. Can you imagine that if we all were coming from that place in our heart there would be no violence. Where there is love, there is no hate as they cannot exsist at the same time. So, truly this question is about the stability of us humans and our thought processess. Where we have grown up, what we have been taught. I do believe that we are seeing a change of how one responds to life and hopefully, someday we all will live in peace. This reminds me of the John Lennon song, IMAGINE.

We cannot change the past but we sure can change the future 🙂

AFx2

Still that doesn't solve the problem. Nice tought and song! We need solutions not fairytales!

152, why do you describe my thoughts as "fairytales"? Hard for you to imagine that it is possible? What solutions do you have in mind? Do you believe in a world with limits or unlimited power? How powerful is your mind? I know, so many questions.

AFx2

Well, when you consider that man will and has killed since the beginning of time, then I call your ideas 'fairytales' things have not and will not ever change and you can listen to all the lyrics you want to. There are those that enjoy murdering others it satisfies them. How do you deal with this? do you play John Lennon tunes and wish for it to happen or do you deal with what it is— Get a grip and either live in reality and think about the best solutions or live in a dream world and do absolutely nothing!!!! Don't mean to be rude but, you need to Give yourself a Reality check, ok!

Dear 205,

"things have not and will not ever change." hmmm....well then, you are correct. Your thoughts create YOUR life. I will agree to disagree with you. You have the choice (a wonderful gift) to create what you desire. Go for it. I thank you for your words but I honestly do prefer to find the good in all humans and situations.

Best wishes,

AFx2

AFx2,

I thought you were the type of person who had there feet on the ground! Are we to just let all these homicidal maniacs loose?! I mean what kind of a plan do you have in mind for the immediate problem. Maybe we should just kill everyone that a muderous heart and start over. If the bible is true, and I think it is, that didn't work either! So by all means if you are better than God and can come up with a solution, lets hear it. People are weird and complicated and some find pleasure in hurting others. Like you might enjoy listening to music they enjoy pain (other peoples) Geez, where the heck are you coming from—


LawGoddess,

I think some can be reformed and have been. I am all for giving people a second chance to redeem their lives. Everyone makes mistakes. But there are those that are so evil and their acts of savagery and brutality prove it would be safer to either lock them up forever or kill them.(jusifiably)BTW.

AFx2,

Well what do you plan to do with all your good intentions? HUH! you still have not given me any insight about what we do with people who commit murder? The topic of the thread was the death penalty. You still have not addressed the subject, not rationally!!

don't do the crime if you can't do the time. That is the way it is! They had a choice and they made it!

Can't handle the truth?? It is hard isn't it and it isn't pretty sometimes either. Sorry, once again I don't mean to be rude but you really do need to not be so naive!!

Law Goddess and 205,

It was not my intention to post on this board to start a disagreement. I just posted my "personal" feelings just as you and everyone else is. I am not judging either of you for your beliefs but it amazes me how someone (me) thinks "out of the box" or differently than what others may think that others will choose to perceive it as naive, better than God (which I am NOT nor did I say I was)..this is YOUR perception.

Anywho....these were just some thoughts...nothing but thoughts. Maybe the solutions to any problem begin with each person. I do not have the absolute answer to what to do with those who commit murder...and honestly, I so do believe that we must solve the "why" they are committing murder first. I would have to say this is a lot like raising children. A parent can scold, spank, yell and punish their children for doing something wrong. (we can constantly use the death penalty in the same way.) However, until we address where the problem is coming from and deal with that, the problem will continue to occur and the same punishment will be admistered over and over again.

To solve any problem begins with finding the reason for the problem and correcting it.

I hope you all have a good day today.

AFx2

205,

I am just wondering something else and hopefully you can help me to understand the resoning behind this.

Why do people say, "I don't mean to be rude but...." and they are? If they "truthfully" didn't want to be rude than they wouldn't have said or written the comment. So, are they lying? do they just say empty words? Where is the honesty in this statement? I would have rather read, "I am going to be rude here and.....". That is a statement of honesty and truth. A new subject of communication....if we can communicate honestly to one another we will have a better ablity to understand each other.

Us dog-gone Aries....we say what we mean and we mean what we say.

Thanks 205 for your help in my understanding of this.

AFx2

Aries,

OK, this is my last comment because I am going outside to mow the yard, and the "I'm not trying to be rude" is just a figure of speech...and to let you know that even though I may be rude it is not intended to harm but to help you hopefully! ok, Back to subject and I will try to be as clear as possible? J. Dhamers parents did not hit or yell at him; they were very kind and rather timid people, and he grew up to kill and eat his victims. You can't always blame the parents. Children learn right from wrong,or they are suppose to, at an early age.

Some people just have a predispositions that is perverse, and with all the porn and violence on TV and in magazines we are inindated with this type of behavior. I think it is our culture and all the sex....you see where I am going. I can see why the East hates the West, but there are some of us who can control our darker sides. We know we all have one and acknowledge that, so we control it! You see this is the difference. We are (humans) both good and bad. We need to learn to control ourselves and not just act on our desires, and do the right thing whether we want to sometimes or not!

and for those who cannot contol themselves...they end up in prison where they can be controlled!!! Hey, how is that for common sense! I'm back!
CU later
Have a great weekend!

I live in the South, and it is illegal to have sex if you are not married. It is also illegal to have oral or anal sex even if you are married! (Georgia Law)...but in the state where I live (SC) it is not illegal to rape your wife and beat her as long as you do it with an open hand. So, I find the law truly not very fair or consistent and it confuses me and angers me on a regular basis! I am very glad I am not married in this state!!! Geez, what a weird thing-- the law! You really have to stay on top of these law makers...they are the ones who are too out of control!

and that is my last comment!!!!!

While taking some time from cleaning today I picked up a book and began to read. At the top of the page was written a quote that I seemed to have found very interesting. "Every man's life is a fairytale written by God's finger." ~Anderson

A kawink-a-dink—?? Nah, don't think so.

I do hope that everyone is experiencing a beautiful day where they live, the weather is absolutely so "fall like".

AFx2

"Every man's life is a fairytale written by God's finger." ~Anderson


That is pretty neat! Yes, it is a wonderful day and it makes you glad to just be alive!

I have already started decorating the yard and house for halloween! HAH!

I agree with you, 152, It IS great to be alive! I'm gonna come to your house for Halloween! I bet your yard looks very nice.

Back to cleaning the house....

Ok...so this goes right back to my origional reply to this topic.

This topic has a bottom line...LIFE vs DEATH...and very closley related is whether you believe in an afterlife or not, because it affect how you conduct yourself on earth.

I say again...Life was given to us by God and only HE should have the right to take it away. It's that simple.

66.109 and Phoenix...you asked why I would be more concerned with a spiritual being than that of us mortals on earth...that's simple...

I believe we are spiritual beings that inhabit the mortal world of Humans on our journey of life to learn the lessons of life..."one of which is forgivness"...we are essentially the same thing, infact the spirit is higher up in life's importance if you think about it...it has to be as we progress from here to there...it's logical.

This is why I said I express concern toward not just a judge but any part of any judicial party who are responsile for sending a person to death.
A soul passes on and leaves it's body when it needs to due to the laws of Nature/God telling it to...not man.

The death penalty is mans law not Gods law...

Man is by his very nature IMPERFECT...learn to accept that people...it explains and justifies a lot in life.

Good post Durrie! I can refute it from a Christian angle, but I won't since I respect that your belifes differ from mine! Why argue anyways, we both get to the same bottom line, eventually!!

PS last September 11th my mind set was changed. I have come full circle. I have made it back again!

Hey there 64.12. Thanks for your comments.

The Post script does intrigue me though...I'm interested in learning from you if you are willing to share...

What do you mean full circle...and how did 9/11 affect this.

I am very interested in that comment indeed...it has my mind racing with idea's and thoughts I would love to share with you...

Take care...
Durrie.

Mornin Durrie,

What I meant was that after September 11th happened, my ideals changed. One of the changes was my very liberal political views. I became more conservative. I was scared! I also lost my way on the death penalty. This was something I had always been against. I was angry and confused about what and why things had happened on September 11th. I have put it to rest and made some peace with it. I think that it is time to move on and I will never forget it for sure but I am trying to figure out why it happened! I am working on it! There is a revolution going on between the haves and the have nots of the world. This is why! We need to change this. We need to balance the wealth to more than just the 8 richest countries. How to do that—?? Maybe you know?

I'm glad you say that you have put 9/11 behind you...life moves on and so should you...it's hard but it's true.

My thoughts and ideas were a little different to what you replied and were more along the lines of our souls and our spirituality.

I take it that you would have Osama centanced to death if he were found...as you say your views on the death penalty changed since 9/11. From your reply I assume that you now since 9/11 believe it right to take life from a person because he took life from others...hmmm...

How...why...what will that change...will it resurect the towers and bring back all those who were tragically lost in it's reckage...I think not...infact I know not.
All it would do is leave you with blood on your own hands...degrading you to his level of mentality that you believe you have the right to administer life to and from a person...

My thoughts were this...

If you say you can "refute it from a christian angle" I assume you are christian. Your life has been handed over to the Lord. This means you believe in a higher power and that it is that power that is in control of the greater picture...not you or I.

Now that we have cleared that up...why do you ask why. Should you not just be living your life as a Christian safe in the knowledge that it is all under control and will be revealed once you leave this world and join God in heavan.

We are here in this imperfect world to learn many things and knowing that this world is imperfect clears up a lot if not all of those unanswerable questions. We are spiritual beings so our home is not here on earth although this is an integral destination in our journey...don't let it get the better of you by letting it control your thought patterns...least of all in a negative manner.

Why should you ask why if you have faith...

Take care 64.12. You show great compassion in asking these questions but then none of us can answer them...

Durrie...

Once again you misunderstood me, Durrie! We use to be able to connect! I feel this is just a battle of wits and it is frustrating me!

Take Care

and as far as binLaden, I would probably do him myself and that goes for people who abduct and kill kids too!

It takes a bigger person to forgive than it does to get even.

Ok! then lock them up forever!!! I can forgive and I do and I don't want to take a life in anger but what about justice?

You need to re-evaluate the meaning of the word fogiveness.

To forgive someone their sins is to wipe their slate clean...what do you need to bring to justice once you have truely forgiven...—

Justice as you say it above is in terms of mans law...ie you want them locked up in jail. Forgiveness is above that. Forgiveness is Gods law...it is far more powerful than mans law...it is the absolute truth and way to enlightenment.

Your intensions and heart are good 205, but I feel you speak out of resentment for these people you would have locked up or sentenced to death and that is not forgiveness.
Human emotion and it's subjective point of view are the first hurdels you need to conquor before you can even begin to percieve forgiveness.

I can sense you are a fine human being 205 and you know right from wrong but that is not the case with all people on earth.
It is our duty as those who know right from wrong to forgive those that don't their ignorance in the light that that is how they will learn that lesson because that is God's law...any other way is an injustice toward them on our behalf degrading us to their level...

Take care 205...
Durrie.

Durrie, how do you suggest we protect ourselves from violent criminals, particularly repeat offenders? Where do you suggest we put those who can't be "rehabilitated"?

I promise I'm not being argumentative; I truly would like to hear your thoughts.