Too Much Understanding?

Is there such a thing as being too understanding? Is there ever a situation where a person has done a wrong or committed a crime of some kind, and they don't deserve to be analyzed, merely punished? It seems like society (I hate that word, but is there a better one?) has become so wishywashy and milktoast. Everyone who commits a crime had "negative childhood experiences" (who hasn't?) so therefore, their behavior is "understood", "justified", "pardoned"...I say BULLbutter. And what I also find annoying is that with a lot of people, you can tell that they don't really feel that way, that these actions should be excused...it's like people are so afraid that OTHER PEOPLE (and we all know that "other people" are the ultimate judges of where our soul goes after we die of course...hahahahaha) will see them as MEAN or NEGATIVE or UNFORGIVING, that they fake being okay or "at peace with" the deplorable things that screwed up people do.

What is wrong with these people?! They're almost as bad, if not as bad as the criminals. Yep, BAD BAD BAD, oh look at me, I'm being judgemental. Well treetrunk yes I'm being judgemental. I have that right as a human being. Actually, I have that right AND that inclination. I'm sick and tired of whimpyass enablers who make it possible for decent people to be victimized on a daily basis.

i know what you mean about too much understanding...

but i guess i'm part of your "wtf is wrong with these people" list! lol. I really dont know what to conclude but i think generally people have this thing where they want to understand a persons situation since there might be more than what one sees--but just because their situation may be caused by some thing or they have their reasons, does it make it right? hax nah. it IS fustrating at times when people just let situations slide and thus i guess a cycle begins. But generally i think people believe in "second chances". Although "second chances" should only be given if the person acknowledges the fact that what he/she did was wrong to let things get any further. But in some cases, its just so f*ked up that it shoudnt even be passed. I think people are insecure to let out their true opinions because its sad how ones opinion lies in anothers hand to be judged if its "okay" or "not ok". I think thats part of where the whole "people trying to fit in" comes in.

This topics reminds me of part of an Alanis Morissette song:

"I too once thought life was cruel
it's a cycle really you think i'm withdrawing and guilt tripping you I think you're insensitive
and I don't feel heard and I said do you believe we are fundamentally judgmental? fundamentally evil?
and you said yes I said I don't believe in revenge in right or wrong good or bad you said
&well what about that man that I saw handcuffed in the emergency room bleeding after beating his kid
and she threw a shoe at his head.
I think what he did was wrong and I would've had a hard time feeling compassion for him&
I had to watch my tone for fear of having you feel judged."

OK, and personally I think a lot of the decisions which are made up by judges and a lot of the laws past like the drug laws which put people in prison who smoked pot for longer than murderers is based on politics. I think if it's a big public case a lot of time the judge is not only thinking of just mercy and justice, he's also thinking of what interest group he's pleasing or upsetting. The drug laws I think are just absurd. I think we should be a lot more like the Netherlands... When it comes to traspertation as well... This is off topic too, but in Amsterdam their are seven lanes in the streets: walking bicycles cars trams cars bicycles walking... Everyone there has a bike and uses that to get around, think of the amount of air polution which our cities could be spared if we had a street system designen like that!!! Of course, it's next to impossible to cross the street safely if you're a tourist...

for some reason, and I'm not sure why (maybe someone else can explain it to me) this reminds me of all those boring art critics. They always analyze why the artist drew this line in this place, how the artist used his complementary colors to signify this or that and all the other things. Maybe Leonardo de Vinci painted the Mona Lisa's smile like that because he was bored with the usual look people give in portraits. The same with poetry- maybe the poet used the word "flame" instead of "fire" because of a whim.

Anyway, I think I can tie this to the subject somehow- we see too much into things. Just because a person is abused as a youth and then committs a murder at 30 doesn't mean the two have to go hand in hand. A person is not excused from committing heinous crimes because of events that could have been psychologically traumatizing but may have been.

Of course, I fully believe that people can repent and reform and that those criminals who are serial murderers and sadists should be studied closely in a psychological institution to find out what in our society or in his own mind made him or her turn out that way.

except child molesters- we should lock them up and throw away the key.

I just do not understand!

Did anyone here read Crime and Punishment— I actually just started it, and I'm hooked, it's an EXCELTENT book. And it fits this topic rather well, I thought. I suggest you all go out and read it if you have not already.

Oh and by the way I think that for rapists we should just cut their balls off and fix the problem.

LOL thanks for the suggestion morgan :-)

Cut there wanger off> Im cruel that way they want it but they can,t get it. I forgot its not sex it power there after. Oh well back to the drawing board.

OK this is a section of chapeter V part III from Crime and Punishment in which the characters are disscussing the meaning of crime, it's causes, and Raskolnikov's theory of supermen. I think's terrible interesting.

Characters present in room:
Rodion (Rodya)Romanovitch Raskolnikov - student of law who has just committed the murder of an old pawn broker, is seriously paranoid and has made himself ill (in this part he is just recovering from a severe fever), but hasn't been found out yet.

Dmitri Prokofitch Razumihin - his best friend and devoted guardien in illness.

Porfiry Petrovich - Ivestigator of the murder which Raskolnikov committed, also Razumihin's cousin (although in this seen Raskolnikov and Razumihin are guests in his house, it's not a formal investigation).

Zametov - head clerk in police department, Porfiry Petrovich's friend.


?Only fancy, Rodya, what we got on to yesterday. Whether there is such a thing as crime. I told you that we talked our heads off.? 68
?What is there strange? It?s an everyday social question,? Raskolnikov answered casually. 69
?The question wasn?t put quite like that,? observed Porfiry. 70
?Not quite, that?s true,? Razumihin agreed at once, getting warm and hurried as usual. ?Listen, Rodion, and tell us your opinion, I want to hear it. I was fighting tooth and nail with them and wanted you to help me. I told them you were coming.? It began with the socialist doctrine. You know their doctrine; crime is a protest against the abnormality of the social organisation and nothing more, and nothing more; no other causes admitted!?? 71
?You are wrong there,? cried Porfiry Petrovitch; he was noticeably animated and kept laughing as he looked at Razumihin, which made him more excited than ever. 72
?Nothing is admitted,? Razumihin interrupted with heat. ?I am not wrong. I?ll show you their pamphlets. Everything with them is ?the influence of environment,? and nothing else. Their favourite phrase! From which it follows that, if society is normally organised, all crime will cease at once, since there will be nothing to protest against and all men will become righteous in one instant. Human nature is not taken into account, it is excluded, it?s not supposed to exist! They don?t recognise that humanity, developing by a historical living process, will become at last a normal society, but they believe that a social system that has come out of some mathematical brain is going to organise all humanity at once and make it just and sinless in an instant, quicker than any living process! That?s why they instinctively dislike history, ?nothing but ugliness and stupidity in it,? and they explain it all as stupidity! That?s why they so dislike the living process of life; they don?t and a living soul! The living soul demands life, the soul won?t obey the rules of mechanics, the soul is an object of suspicion, the soul is retrograde! But what they want though it smells of death and can be made of india-rubber, at least is not alive, has no will, is servile and won?t revolt! And it comes in the end to their reducing everything to the building of walls and the planning of rooms and passages in a phalanstery! The phalanstery is ready, indeed, but your human nature is not ready for the phalanstery?it wants life, it hasn?t completed its vital process, it?s too soon for the graveyard! You can?t skip over nature by logic. Logic presupposes three possibilities, but there are millions! Cut away a million, and reduce it all to the question of comfort! That?s the easiest solution of the problem! It?s seductively clear and you mustn?t think about it. That?s the great thing, you mustn?t think! The whole secret of life in two pages of print!? 73
?Now he is off, beating the drum! Catch hold of him, do!? laughed Porfiry. ?Can you imagine,? he turned to Raskolnikov, ?six people holding forth like that last night, in one room, with pu

ok, the weird numbers are the lines, sorry abou that. I'm about halfway done now with the book, and I think it's going to turn out to be the best book I've ever read. I love Dostoevsky's style and they way he can write on so many different levels and how well he does characterization... MMMM....

and I ment terribly interesting... Ug, I sound like I'm coming out of a Mark Twain novel!

okay it fiqured u read Crime and Pushiment. First educate us about sex all of it. Tell us what's so bad. Canda's doing it and it's running down the brith of pregency. Show us the drugy's who have no life as a kid. Give us a teacher who loves to teach without prejudice and care for the tests that give money or any other odd prombelms to decrationt the teacher and student from their realtionsip from learingnig. Free family nights' where no work familes have to be at home toghter 2 a month including during summer. NO, year around school kid's forget what was taught. Better road's and road clearings an extra 30 mins. a day won't make up for a day lost of class. Put up the kid's rights all of them legal everywehre in the schools where kid's can't miss them and in terms they can read pictures included. Reduce the welfare system. Build up speakeres who can show kids to be open minded. Speakers who can show how dumb drugs are. Legilators not beating on the French or cigrates and using real time for real prombelms. Less of money and maybe they need to have another real job then "politicion". More investment into things built here reduce some tax produce some law to make america the place to work. We nee that. Let peopple out of jail who are going to die becaouse of a termianal illness and some of the old. But with some servaillence. Let their be more parks and more farms. Don't reduce the foundation of the relvtionu of the entire human race after seeds plant seeds grow seeds good to eat. huh huh huh. lOL Build better and more equipet prizions have prisoirns do more give them stuff to do. Don't let them ejnoy their lives in "luxary" without work. Not tourtue but work. So they won't want to go back. This would help society. This doesn't talk about the addition of how to help American' that are over weight cept maybe a walk each day by the students and teachers required. And add to the thing that show's what's in a product use actullay unscientific terms for noraml people to know what their saying. I hope this would help this could work. Who can say?

Give people a better society with out limiting their freedom, financial freedom included. Sounds like a paradox to me. Can we for together in a perfect society with out undermining our individuality?

perfect socitey idealism the only theory that says a perfect is socicalist but to say theirs a way of a perfect socity no, not now the world is full of incable ugly people who do not understand their are more things then money that educatdtion does matter no what ur grandfather says who's drinkng discount beer by other people's money. If such a socitey could evole it would require the elvotion of our speiceis such would be a nince instertersing change. Such actions would be physic and would be easier to prevent crimes not like that one movie with tom curise but in a way to englighent and have a more constivctive and peacful people who know how to protect one's self. And if such one could keep and express iduviulaty. i fell that this has been are own doing by expressing since the invention of nucery rhymes that produces the ideas of wanting better for our childeren. Thing more money is better. We have have breed this into socity and forcing us to forget that money isn't everything and what's expinsive is not always the best. This is sad for money is trused more then love and friendship.

"If such a socitey could evole it would require the elvotion of our speiceis "

I completely agree with you and you have no idea how many times I've said almost the exact same thing, I think you must have taken the words right from my lips.

It's difficult, the way our society is shaped now, to really get a lot of things with out a lot of money. It sucks, but that is the way it is. A change would be nice, but we don't want to go too far to the left or people who work really hard will feel cheated out of their privileges (I mean the extreme socialist point of taking 85% of your income). However, with out doing that, it's really hard to be able to provide oppertunities to everyone and assure that they have equal chances for happiness. I'm not really sure what is right, and I don't see any solutions coming up very soon. In order to do this, we'd have to be a much closer community, which is hard, since we are so spread out, and even harder since our minds are focused first on the needs of those closest to us before the needs of our community, which means that for the average person any extra that we can give, will go to those not with the most need, but those who are closest too us. To create a society where people would give freely to the neediest in society before their families, would mean the destruction of the fundemental family unit. Now, some people think this is good. I, however, see it as a first step towards a limmited individuality. I say VERY VERY BAD. Of course, no one can really see where evolution will bring us as a race, but for every human to look upon another human and see them as family just because they are of the same society seems like a very far fetched idea. It's a nice dream, but it wouldn't work. Human nature says otherwise. We get rid of human nature, we're not human. We'd have to evolve into some other species.

I'm sorry, I don't know if that made too much sense. Well, I tried.

Ur, right though their very little way to for us to change to a so called better socitey where we care for are community. I think one way would be community nights where we won't have anything else to do or any other activies where kid's and parents and other adults can mingle and have a sense of community. U see we had that in the 50's but that was small town and small world thinking now it's big world and big community we can do both it'll just take a while for people to change and have both senses. I won't surive in a world without such human thoughts or actions. Socalism is okay as a idea or in theory but it fails in relaty for Matrix failed to calucate hunan sprit and human life it self the basic fellings which manily seperate us and itleggenice and other things from animals. But what is bad is America wan'ts more big brother less guns more saftey.But at what cause? People are being misled by fake American's who want Socaliasm to sucde in Anmerica. u take are guns it'll be harder to defend the one's who realize to late or even in time to stop a socisam movement. Hopefully ittglent people will notice such a movment. This i fear. But I hope not to see. This is the goverment that turly works. It leaves flexablity and freedom which is what a gov needs.

Let's hope that it's a government for the people by the people, and not just pretending and working towards some other agenda.

Was it GB that said today iraq tomorrow thw world.

today Iraq tommrow the World
I'd think not. America can't and shouldn't rule the world. but should stop the terroist and other countries who help and do such.

lol James, good idea, you should tell everyone, cause, you know, there might actually be people who think America should rule the world (that is besides the stupid drunk american males with too much testosterone).

well I did email the president about my ideas about how to improve america. But ture. I find it annoying that people think were out for oil or land. We didn't do much even in the Imperail age just about no more then 5 island's i bilve and thoses are know terr. and are like Puterico. But Irqui we get little oil from and have little to gain from. as with most of the world. Many have to gain with control of America or even portions of this land.

Now you have done it we are all under surveilance.

why
would we all be under surllivance?
just because I emailed the president
they would be far to many people to look at who are more susupisous.
frist i didn't even name the site

lol

wouldn't it be scary if the government screened all of the internet for the word "president" and then tracked the IP addresses of the computers that used the word president and then tracked their home addresses and monitored their phone calls and put little invisible cameras in their houses?

james lucky #13... to your first post- Socialism has succeeded remarkably well and it is the mergence of communism and capitolism in the middle. Canada is a socialist country: everyone has medical insurance guaranteed, Holland is socialist, Great Britain is socialist (or atleast much more socialist than us) ans so are many other European countries. Maybe I ca't call them "siocailist" countries maybe I should say they are countries that embrace socialist concepts but I think you get the idea. Marxist socialism is different from socialism just as it is different from communism. and I probably don't make any sense oh well.

and pheonix: how do you know they aren't already doing that?

France is socialist... Maybe we should model the country after THEIRS.

Gwen is a Marxist... God help us all, she's going to try and destroy the economy now.

I just don't understand it Gwen, I know you say you don't want to ever talk to me about politics, but I can't help it this time. You say your for devolution, but your also for socialist policies and more government envolvement in peoples lives, I don't understand. You can't have large socialist policies carried out on the local level, because most of the time the local governments can't raise enough money for such projects, especially in the areas that require government aid the most. They rely in grants from the federal government. So which is it? Devolution or Socialist policy? Most social nacions have very top heavy governments, which means that most of the power is centralized. A lot of the more succesful social countries are also unatary governments, and not federalist governments like ours. They are also usually a lot smaller as well, and size does matter, things are easier to organize on a local level when you deal with a smaller country. Unless we're talking about China. China could be considered socialist economically, although they're communist politically. Perhaps you'd like to base the government on China's?

Oh crap, I think I'm just really sick of socialists. Maybe I should become a neoliberal.

Big Bro is watching.

of course big bro is whatching. i don't give a treetrunk. as long as they know that i don't like the fact that we too are to close to imprasing solictic idolterties. I don't like much of the socliast ideas. for it all comes from one spring. u see onle drop leads to another.... just saying. gwen is right how do we know we don't. thank God and all other's for the elctoral voting idea. brilliant better then slice bread. it's good. anyway to the point. i feel that guns themselves arent' empraced enough. i mean we summit are anger or who ever does such is to the people that make the guns. yeah like it's the janitors the fault at the Smith and Weston that he's cleaning floors 10 hrs. a week to pay for his 3 childeren. come on. ... people Think. The people who do should be punished more then the peole who make a prdouct that is used in a violent manner. Choice. Choice. that's all we have. yet we are going to stand by and just let others bully around other's poeple's right to choice? I pray u not. slient weep......distant....Gone.

13, The problem with what you write is that I can't understand any of it, you never fail to confuse me. I'm so lost I have no freakin clue what the topic of this thread is anymore.

does he write in the ebonics you people were talking about in the one thread I not sure were that was but you brought up ebonics is this it the street language?

ebonics is what?

i may start a entirely new conversation out of just one comment out of a pargraph i do that kind of stuff. Also i find things oddly connected and it could take a while to fiquire out how they connect for some people. 'cause i think wriedly.

It must be ebonics

13, we all think weirdly, you just express yourself oddly...

Tate, ebonics, I think, is even worse, I wouldn't go so far as to say 13 is typing ebonics...

I think I'll endearingly call it "thirteenglish" 😛

ROFL!

lol

you know I mean that in an endearing way james the 13th 🙂

enderaing way? Thanks i think.

note he got I think and thanks right people who can not spell would not think there was a differance.

Is Den feeling better today james?

If I had to identify in one word, the reason why the human race has not achieved, and never will achieve, its full potential that word would be DEN!

I see things are going well then. lol.