Convincing people is not possible

Yes. Convincing people in logical way is not possible. People logical understanding measure is differs from each other. I am going to disband the logical appoarch to situations about people and use deceptive ways to make them do right things. I'm sorry but that's true.

Decieving people usually backfires for good reason,people aren't as dumb as they look,they will eventually figure it out then your in trouble.It's only a temporary solution to something that cannot be changed if the person disagrees with it.What you may view as the right thing,to others it may not be the right thing and as you stand behind what you believe in,other people do too.In all honesty nothings right or wrong it's what those people choose as right or wrong that makes them right or wrong to that person.Some people will agree with you,others won't it doesn't make them wrong because they differ from you.Thats where compromising or excepting as is comes in and you then have to decide to deal with the differences or choose to leave it behind,thats the only thing thats up to you.

Speaking the truth provides no solution though. So what I lose?

There is not much people who can deal with reality in fair way.

What is the fair way..?? Yours or the others..??

Sometimes you'll need to be reasonable... you are judgmental type haffo?.!!

Be careful on this?. It?s not a quality?it makes you alienated and separating you from the rest of humanity.

Have it your way.. Its your life and choice anyway.

That what I'm speaking about. I'm tired of being reasonable. Because in the end, only me stay reasonable. When people see that they have no more words to tell in a reasonable way, they start to rise their voice, use bad speech for which I start to think that I wasted and wasting my time with that person or group. Why should I invest my time on convincing people next time when I already see their incompetencies right from their behaviours which do not require conversation??

The reality will always get under their skin again and they will automatically start to defend themselves as if saying that they are fully reasonable people while they are not. This is stupid. People defend their idea not because it is reasonable but because if they agree with me, they somehow will be less worth in other people eyes.

?Why should I invest my time on convincing people??

And?!!

?This is stupid. People defend their idea not because it is reasonable but because if they agree with me, they somehow will be less worth in other people eyes.?

Good question?.!!

Why should I or anyone else investing our time to convince you..??.. explain it please..??

People do this stuff to make things happen.. like friendship?!! Do you really have to be so hostile always..??...

Ok? I am not your friend and I absolutely dislike fishes? but think again..!.... who is going to lose..??

It?s not me?

It's not that haffo.You've got a comical side to you that is hilarious sometimes well,that si until maybe calling someone sensitive fat lol.The defending themselves thing=thats it,it's defending ourselves when your serious,kinda like your doing now defending yourself and getting sensitive.You could use a little more tact with your words and not attack people with negativities about thier incompetencies.Like your words or whats behind it topic most people picked what's behind it.It's as if you always think the worst of people and are critising them for being the scum of the earth which they aren't.We ALL have faults,for instance posts here,mine would be im too short and blunt with my words so it leaves alot left for people to get the wrong impression of what I mean.Your own would be it's as if your controlling,judgemental and want people to admit thier garabage to you.It's not a good way to treat people and expect good things to happen.There shouldn't be/isn't a worth to people.

Yeah Qbone. Now I am asking the same question to myself. Why do you try to convince me? If you dislike me, you don't like fishes (whatever you mean by that because I'm not a fish), you are not friend of me and so on, why do you try to convince me?? I don't see any reasons.

Tiamat:

You may be right. I really never smile to people when I'm making the conversations with them. Actually that serious outlook doesn't start like that right from the beginning. This happens when they start to show their incompetencies. I guess you try to tell me (speaking one step ahead of what you've said) that when they start to show their incompetencies, it would be better to normally explain them what's wrong without sending any negative outlook in my speech at first. If they don't get it then gradually increase the serious and negative outlook of the speech, if they worth that time. Right?

Good question haffo...

Nobody try to convince anyone.... you have your ideas, the others including me also got our idea and view points, posting in message boards is for ?Discussion and perhaps some education as well? not arguing, fighting and whining?.!

Some people discussing it and some reading it, some share the idea and some rejecting it, some even ignore it, its matter of communication not ?arguing? .!

You don?t have to answer or argue if someone says something you don?t like, you take things personally and by arguing you will always creating conflict that?s for sure.

Or else I haven nothing further to add on this topic.

YAwwwwnnnn,lol

Since this topic is related with me only, I do not need your discussion or education while you are trying to point me out how you dislike me.

Yeah haffo but there is a point you have to draw the conclusion that it's not going to change thier perspective and they still may have a good reason for it being that too.You can define it better and the reasons for it but really thats all.It's up to them to take it or leave it,still wouldn't speak less of them if they leave it though.It all boils down to a matter of disagreement of opinions or whatvever the case may be is all when they don't agree with you.There will always be people out there who just aren't "for" you(in a sense) and people who are,kinda like the old say that one persons trash is another persons gold,those things can still be a good thing or they can have other good qualities that other people besides you will like.Otherwise it's constant bickering to no avail,more unneeded stress too.

Haffo, what is the end result of all this?

What do you want?

"Haffo, what is the end result of all this?"

The result is that some people are too immature when it comes to speaking out their needs. When I confront with them about their silence they call me too demanding and walk away. Now I am mostly afraid to ask them anything about problems to not look demanding. But unfortunately this is the only way of solving the problems and I feel too depressed near people.

Haffo, my question to you is....why have you judged them as "immature" when they do not speak their needs to you? When someone "confronts" me....personally, it doesn't allow for me to feel safe enough to express my needs. This would not make me "immature" just, aware. When I am ready, I will share my thoughts and feelings till then, mum's the word. Haffo, it is okay to allow people to be who they are...we all do in each moment the best that we can to what we know at that time.

"when I confront with them about their silence they call me too demanding and walk away." read what you wrote again....perhaps you could make some changes in your approach when talking with others?

Hello Freebird.

I judge them immature for two reasons: First, most of them live with their families and never experienced the real life and don't know yet what's normal and what's not. When someone giving promise to call you, he should call you whereither it the speech you're going to tell is positive or negative. This is the sign of inreliability. Second, when someone ask you why didn't you call while you made a promise to do so, this is not a good reason to walk away.

The interesting part with me is that the most of peoplse who trying to talk with me are the ones who try to learn more about my personal life before knowing anything else. Actually I'm the one who should stop speaking with them, because of the personal questions. I know what you mean Freebird, but I'm not asking them about their personal lives. I'm aware of that. I ask questions that will actually prove their reliability to me while they choose to walk away. That makes me angry alot, because they proved to be trustworthy in the first place. And now they walk away without giving any explainations to me. Was all the past good things nothing for them which even didnt allow to tell me the truth? This is irresponsibility. This is respectless, tactless and mostly uncivilised behaviour. I do not accept such behaviours done to me. But then my silence to people gets on my nerves. I decide to confront with them. I ask them whats wrong. What did I do to make you that silent? Is there anything wrong? .....no answer. You know when this happens, not him or her, it's me who walk away. I do not trust into such people who don't stand their ground and prove their reliability while they are the reason of the unreliability. I'm just sick of that.

You don't take negative critisim too well.Also on this particular topic,you obviously don't like it when people do it to you but on the pisces aloft topic is another story when you do it to people.What you were suspecting of the aquarians reasons for aloftness is in fact the reason you do it.Why the double standard?Does that mean your immature,unrelieable and all that other stuff too?Is it because your reason for aloftness was negative so it makes you paranoid that thier reason could be too?Is there some type of insecurity to cause you to be as so agressive and demanding so people have to prove themselves continuely even after they were trustworthy?Why is one slip up so important to you?It would be a very low self esteem person to be that reliable and not too good of a friend either,if they are that worried about not being allowed to mess up/forget things/etc. once in awhile.It'd be a very unbenificial friendship,if they don't have a mind of thier own.Also it could be,some of those people don't like to put thier problems/needs on others,it's actually a strength.You seem to have some security issues to take things like one missed phone call so personally and it mean that they're unreliable,is it an insecurity?What's up with you psychologically first.

Haffo,

have you ever considered the fact that don't like to be stressed out and pressured? All I ever taken from your posts are negative remarks about other people and how you JUDGE them for it. Convince people of things, why? Do you believe that you are always right? I don't feel it's immature to not have speak of your needs all the time. Infact I find it more immature to conduct your behaviour in the way you speak of. You over saturate these boards with nonsense asking for advice but don't seem to take any. You're the reason I haven't bothered visiting this site lately.

You tell me who can't be convinced.

Correction

have you ever considered the fact that people don't like to be stressed out and pressured?

Amen to that BJ..

Wow.

Has anyone ever considered that criticism may be wrong in all cases? Correction and Criticism are different things.

Yeah,im aware of that,i've been one of the more understanding people here for haffo,he's from turkey and I know its a traditional country.It's just reading his struggles with people over and over again,that gives me a reason to try to figure out if theres something else that even in turkey may be causing him problems.Like coming off as judgemental or suspecious 24/7.Maybe it'd be better doing it privately,I guess.He's got some enemies here.

Tiamat:

"You don't take negative critisim too well."

No that's not true. When you load your words with personal attack propertries, this is what I can't digest. Other than that, feel free to say whatever you want. We are free to speak about situation in whatever form we want.

"Also on this particular topic,you obviously don't like it when people do it to you but on the pisces aloft topic is another story when you do it to people.What you were suspecting of the aquarians reasons for aloftness is in fact the reason you do it."

In Pisces aloof topic it wasn't something that I am trying to point out here. If Pisces acts aloof in love department, then that means he/she is not interested (at least I am like that). But that doesn't involve leaving questions without answer. If I like someone, then I will make first step towars her, but if I not do it then I am not interested. And if she asks me whats wrong I DO ANSWER THAT I AM NOT INTERESTED. The aloof part is just a hint without words. But not something that I will leave without answer. The Aquarius aloof topic is exactly what I say. They don't asnwer on direct question. That is what I call aloof. Not when they answer. I have problems with people mostly because of their silence towards my questions. Leaving person without answer is respectless behaviour.

"Why is one slip up so important to you?"

It is very important. Because I need the assurance of necessity of my good behaviours to the person who won my trust in the first place. If he/she don't appretiate or respect my behaviours toward him/her then I stop wasting my energy in making them good. I dont like feel myself stupid when I know of feel that my behaviours aren't appretiated. I just ask whats wrong. I can't stay in silence and try to figure out. Asking is faster way of getting information.

"It'd be a very unbenificial friendship,if they don't have a mind of thier own."

They do have their mind on their own. And I try to help them in acheiving their needs in whatever form I can. This is what I call friendship. I don't show my support to people who don't show respect towards me. I need assurance from him that our intentions are still mutual. As I said before, I am not going to help someone who has different intentions rather than I have towards that person. That maybe seems like controlling that person. But that is what I require from people for stability of the relations. For no hard feelings in both sides.

BJ:

I did apologised for my misunderstanding of your messages. What should I do more? Sacrifice myself in front of you—

Qbone:

"Amen to that BJ.."

May I remind you that you are the one who came here with preaching me while pointing out how you dislike me? Wasn't that negative?? And come from you?!?!?

Elliot:

I didnt understand what you mean. If you care, can you explain what you wanted to say?

Elliot of the High Scorpios:

"Just by seeing how this conversation has been handled by people it is very easy for me to remember why we have a world where people begins blood-feuds over ideas."

LOL that's alright elliot. i reacted in a very similar manner when i first came to this board and read the posts here. in my case it was somehow worse though ? there was this one bloke who wrote that scorps were gods and everyone else wasn?t worthy of them. plus, he threatened to kill his opponents and to drink their blood, or something like that... weird stuff... that was how i got to know dxpnet and i thought 'wow, this place is fun. i?ll just plunge in!!!'.

no, seriously, you?ll notice quite a few sane, open-minded, controversial but still nice people around here - and that?s the true beauty of dxp, i think!



haffo, how many people do you personally know, who act and behave exactly as you think is appropriate—

Very few.

few like one or two, or few like six or seven? because if it was only one or two, then maybe you do have a quite unrealistic perception of how people should react. maybe in your mind you create a picture of a perfect human being that just doesn't exist in real life. hu? i mean, we're all human, don't function perfectly and in my opinion it doesn't make people bad only because they fail to react in a way that you think would be appropriate.

Few like 5% of people I've met.

This number differs in other contries.

In European countries this number is about 60-70% . In Russia this numebr is 90% . In Turkey only 5% .

wow, you get along with russians best? cool!

just bare in mind that a friendship, or any other sort of relationship over the internet is different to a "real" relationship. people you get along with well on the net might behave differently when you meet them in person.

I know Lizard. But I also met people in real life too, so I speak from it too.

ok

"I didnt understand what you mean. If you care, can you explain what you wanted to say?"



All I am saying is that people are the way they are for a reason, we all know this, and they should be left alone to be how they have been made to be thus far into life.

Correction is needed. (Correction is just making sure people have their facts clear)

Criticism is unneccesary in all cases. (Even though it always comes)


People will not change unless they are Influenced to change, there aren't too many ways that someone will opt to change if they're told to, maybe forced to, or even asked to, I mean psychological common knowledge shows us that humans will actually act against that rather than fall into place.

But if you can Influence somebody, and believe me you can, just by being around and action on what you see is Good and never settle for the second best way of doing things - then they will change themselves. It is not up to anyone to change anything but themselves.

Also, I think Patience and Practice and key factors here.

Patience is Practice.

Those that have Patience with people can Influence just about anyone into changing their ways for the better.

And those who do not have enough Patience must Practice developing it.

People deserve Patience, in fact without it we're not much of a human race at all.


That's all I wanted to say.

Yeah Elliot.

Patience is really a problem for me.

But is the problem really about the patience?

The very annoying part about people with me is that even when they know that there is a slightest possibility of the truth behind my words, they still dare to defend themselves and are refusing that fact. What I expect from them in that moment is to keep their silence and focus on what I've said instead of fighting with their nonsensible need of pride.

When truth involved, the pride should step aside.

"When truth involved, the pride should step aside."


That's very Wise and so True.

I guess Dignity must always accompany Pride then.

People with Dignity/Honor allow their Pride to step aside when the Truth is apparent to them.

I do understand that Patience may be a problem for you. It is not always a problem, but it does make a world of difference, keep that in mind if you care to.

Take Care,
Elliot!