A SIMPLE QUESTION ABOUT IMMIGRANTS

If various "Middle Eastern" groups hate us in the west and refuse to "Integrate"
I have a simple question??
What the hell are you doing in my country if you hate me and my culture so much??
Dont take offence but if you dont like it, get the hell out and go back to the Middle East!!
But then, youd miss your "Western Creature Comforts" wouldnt you?

Believe me, "YOULL MISS US" a damn sight more than I'll Miss You "Guaranteed"

"Bon Voyage"

i dont think its the ones that live here that hate us.....maybe the one percent that are hiding among us waiting for the right time to blow themselves up and take as many of the infidels with them as they can.....😢

Wow ....and we wonder why they hate us. Pure ignorance!!! No reason to waste much more time on this thread because neither of you have even an inkling of a clue about humanity or cultural differences. I think you should not waste much more time embarrasing yourself with ignorance either. Go back to watching your resourceful Fox news or the latest episode of Jerry Springer. 😉

You can go to several euro countries and they hate us too......should we have such cowboy mentality with them as well? To be quiet honest they hate bigotted people like you, our cowboy politics; not so much American people they hate.

I honestly don't mean to be mean either ....but your statement is outrageous .....and VERY IGNORANT.

PD

niether of u?.......screw off. maybe u should read before u label someone ignorant and include them in your righteous little rant. i wasnt agreeing with the op, but i was stating a fact unless u are trying to say that u dont believe that there are terrorists (however few or many)that are in this country that possibly hate the united states and are capable of proceding with a terrorist act. i dont remember saying that I believed that all middle easterners were terrorists. i am cultured and have been to europe so f-off.

okie dokie Cj .......

It is simply irritating how people generalize about other people simply because of their race, spiritual beliefs, sexual orientation ....or whatever. I am the one hardly being righteous. I am just standing up for common man and voicing an opinion about ignorant racism is simply all I am doing. That is what this topic is ....pure racism at its finest......Racism=Ignorance

So if you must get yourself all worked up, here is a tissue, I never meant to offend you or hurt your feelings. Also here is the sleeve on my shirt. I am simply voicing my disgust and annoyance with it.

Okay .....here is my shoulder to0 😉 Don't get so uptight and angry. It is just a forum ....remember that.

Peace

PD

dont ever put someone elses words in my mouth and talk down to me as if I was the one who voiced those opinions. dxp is full of rightoues people who love slinging labels on everyone else just to elevate thier own moral standing. i dont need your tissue, sleeve or shoulder.

Ahhhhhh cj what can you do? Not everyone thinks like you do. It is the way of the world with varying opinions. Why do u think we have wars? As for the moral code what is so wrong with tryin to be ethical n moral? I simply think we already have enough hate in this world to last a lifetime. The main reason why I have little tolerance for racism because of the hate it breeds.

Don't be so mad now geesh

Make love not war.

Pd

I agree "Make Love Not War"
but which races do you see demonstrating in the streets calling for the death sentance for someone that happens to say something that offends them—
Certainly no "Love" there!!
When was the last time you saw "White Europeans" standing in the streets calling for the death sentance for someone??
And just as an example, it wasnt Fair Skinned Europeans that were responsible for Sept 11 or the London Bombings, its always the "SAME" races.
And im sick of "Do Gooders" using the word "Racist" to anyone who dares to say what most of us actually think!!

" I know its good to form your own beliefs and hold on to them as much as you can but not to the point of dogma and self-righteousness."

But isn't that qunitessential American ? 😉

There was a time when I used to believe in the appeal of appeal - But therez no appeal like the appeal of roles reversed.

It's quite positive when immigrants are hardworking and adjust easily into western culture, sharing some of their own skills and wisdom. But then there are some who want to completely saturate and live their culture whole-heartedly and not adjust so easily. ie; China towns. Also point-in-case. Sihks..(sp?) - who insist on wearing their swords/scabbards all the time, even inside the schools. This may be part of their religion and tradition, but there are (safety) limits and cultural respect works both ways. As in China or Russia, there simply are things you can't or shouldn't do and are thus imposed by their laws if in violation..etc etc. I think all cultures are proud of who they are and should be, including the western culture (we are more than just a melting pot of other countries) and do want to keep some pureness and consistancy of our own.. nothing wrong with that. Just a different perspective.

But isn't that qunitessential American ?

NO!!! 🙂

I fully stand by my original statement.
If they hate me and my culture so much, what the hell are they doing in my country.
Im not a racist, im a realist
I dont go around hating everyone because of the colour of their skin.
People are people, but many of these middle eastern people are born to "Hate" its all they know.

Hi Cappysweetie :-)

"Really? how many foreign languages do you speak? have you ever been to somewhere outside the U.S. Asia? Europe? Africa? Im VERY sure a lot of your conservative/narrow-minded views on things would disappear after you've REALLY dived into other cultures and take the time to really understand them, and Im not talking in a touristic sort of way. When you see the patterns we all (regardless of nationality) follow in this world and how we actually all act the same on most things, you can draw sound conclusions and then you'll realise how limited your thinking has been."

Do you understand the definition of the word fascinated? He did not say he has experienced a great many diverse cultures around the globe....he is fascinated. Get it?
I know a very politically conservative couple that I would bet my life savings on are WAY more culturally integrated than you. A couple who have really dived into other cultures and I'm not talking in a touristic sort of way either, whom through it all have only realized the value of their conservative beliefs when compared against the ideals of the globe they actually have and still do explore with great respect and passion.

I agree with the above poster. All of this multicultural drivel doesn't make one look smarter, under the assumption that they have done the things they question others on and have "walked the walk" so to speak, it actually makes one look more naive and less intelligent.

It has been demonstrated throughout history that forced cultural diversity and political correctness has only been poisonous to POWERFUL civilizations. Beyond that a lack of assimilation of foreign cultures, strong liberal moral values among other politically correct and good feeling bs has lead to the destruction of POWERFUL civilizations.

For those of you on your high horse about acceptance and multicultural understanding need to realize that we in the united states are the most powerful country in the world and we have more to lose as a society than anyone else on the planet and while it would be gosh darn awesome to be blindly accepting and appreciative of the differences of the other cultures in this world.....they would still kill you in the name of their culturally diverse principle. When the people of our country fail to realize this they are not only potentially setting themselves up for catastrophe, but they are setting up the children of our future generations up for even worse. Pull your head out of your ass and wake

Up.

France in the last several decades bought into the same drivel others on here are perpetuating and now they are in a predicament of possibly having to, by force, remove Muslim communities from their country as they have voiced opinions of forcibly changing Frances culture.

England got really accepting and trusting of the people in their own country, even the criminals, actually more so the criminals than the non criminal citizens to the point of illegalizing firearm ownership for citizens. Now the streets are so fucking safe their now that the guns are out of the hands of the law abiding citizens, a company just released a clothing line where the clothes are lined in Kevlar......for school aged kids.

It is one thing to trust, anyone, it is another to do so justifiably or naively. Just because someone is different but wants the best for themselves and the people they love, just like anyone else does not mean that their ways and practices should not be scrutinized before being allowed around you. If you are so wise to your ways of acceptance...leave your kid with a convicted child molester for a week...appreciate the complexness and diversity in someone different from you. I mean, they were only accused and convicted of narrow minded conservative people with a singular purpose without regard to the child molesters feelings.

Hi Cappysweetie :-)

Hi dogsbody

How are you 🙂 🙂

"It has been demonstrated throughout history that forced cultural diversity and political correctness has only been poisonous to POWERFUL civilizations. Beyond that a lack of assimilation of foreign cultures, strong liberal moral values among other politically correct and good feeling bs has lead to the destruction of POWERFUL civilizations."

Baby, you are quite possibly the smartest person I know. I couldnt agree more with the arguments you make, I believe anyone here would have a very hard time arguing with your points. You are brilliant and I love that about you! Kiss ****

How a civilization disintegrated:


Reasons for the fall of the Roman Empire


http://killeenroos.com/1/Romefall.htm

In my opinion ( and correct me if am wrong ) , UK and France threw open their doors to those people whom they ruled ( read whose countries/resources/culture they mercilessly plundered ) under colonialsim. So I don't know whether it was this acute awareness and guilt which made them effect the liberal policy. Whereas America has welcomed people who could be of great use and interest ( which is visionary indeed ).Powerfully exploitative civlizations/countries can no doubt choose to remain oppressively powerful on a non-inclusive basis but then they shouldn't be boasting of morals and virtues.

But one thing I agree upon - if you migrate, then you should become a part of the host culture, to whatever degree itz feasible. If you are too hung-up and sensitive on "preservation-of--identity", then you can stay home. And the least one can do is to not to despise the host.

Diversity in not a must - but itz interesting.

Dude..


You??ve forgotten that the whole damn US was built up by the IMMIGRANTS notions.

What the hell are you doing in the (Indian continent) anyway..??

Invading lands and call it MY country... LMAO..!!

They ARE not going to hate you if you STOP STEALING THEIR NATURAL RESCORES..!

LOL @ Qbone

"They ARE not going to hate you if you STOP STEALING THEIR NATURAL RESCORES..!"

Right— LOL

If this is so true that being accepting of cultural differences is so bad .....So on this pretext you believe that aboloshing slavery was the worst thing that could happen to America. Remember Africans did not come here on their own recognance .......we put them on a ship and enslaved them.

Qbone brings up another good point ......The white man was not born in the Americas, the white man came to the Americas and took the land away from the Indians and put them on reservations fed them booze and got them addicted to gambeling. Your right it is best solution to keep the natural habitants segregated and destroying thier way of life and americanizing them. Interesting how we find ourselves going back to the way of Indian simple life.....growing organic gardens, eating meat products hormone free, and even many of our spiritual paths.

Another case and point, you may see people with turbans on their head in the USA ....well you may want to have a discussion with big fortune companies who take American work to employee Indian labor for half the price of what it takes to get the job done in America. Oh and lets not forget the Mexican imigrants who come to America to clean your toilets at five star hotels and pick the crops that fill your grocery martket.

Some American foolish people think that the world can revolve by their own and not realizing how interdependent they are. Open your eyes....next time you drive your american car (manufactured in Mexico or China), put fuel in your tank (foreign oil), visit a hotel (mexican cleaning staff, wait staff), go to the grocery store to buy any product on the shelf, buy clothing store (made in china, mexico, india), buy that new technological piece of equipment (made in china), Taxi driver .......where do you think it all comes from? And you want to get upset that people of these cultures are living in America?

I am firm with my words this topic is racist and ignorant. Seriously I just turned over my keyboard and guess where it is made ....in China.

Open your eyes .....wake up ......we are not living in the civil war error.

PD

Seriously DB .....it is impossible to believe we can live free of a multi cultural way of life. We have become so interdependent on this way of life (Cheap consumption) there is no way this could ever happen. Look how freaked out Americans are over the rising cost of food and fuel.

Seriously, we are not made in America any more.

PD

I was under the impression the OP was addressing the problems immigrants who refuse to assimilate into our society, not knocking a free world market.

His question posed as America was some place ppl come to bcoz they like "our creature comforts" read my post again they come bcoz we invite foreigners into our culture by US dependency on what they provide.his question was basiclly sayin if u hate America than get out not even realizin how interdependent we are. What would happen if we decided to tell Chinese ppl get out of our country. Do u know how screwed we wld b? We r so technically consumer dependent on china wal-mart cld never use the slogan fallin prices if we did not have china filling our stores with stuff we buy. This my friend is why we r a fuckin melting pot whether u like how someone worships dresses or how they look. The minute u spend money in this country on anything u r supportin this mighty melting pot.

I challenge anyone to disagree they don't support foreign dependency. The beauty of living in free global market. It is the price u pay. If u own a home I can also guarantee it is backed by foreign investors.
Don't be filled with ignorant idealism that simply does not exist in this country. We can't bite the hand that feeds us.

Pd

His question posed as America was some place ppl come to bcoz they like "our creature comforts" read my post again they come bcoz we invite foreigners into our culture by US dependency on what they provide.his question was basiclly sayin if u hate America than get out not even realizin how interdependent we are. What would happen if we decided to tell Chinese ppl get out of our country. Do u know how screwed we wld b? We r so technically consumer dependent on china wal-mart cld never use the slogan fallin prices if we did not have china filling our stores with stuff we buy. This my friend is why we r a fuckin melting pot whether u like how someone worships dresses or how they look. The minute u spend money in this country on anything u r supportin this mighty melting pot.

I challenge anyone to disagree they don't support foreign dependency. The beauty of living in free global market. It is the price u pay. If u own a home I can also guarantee it is backed by foreign investors.
Don't be filled with ignorant idealism that simply does not exist in this country. We can't bite the hand that feeds us.

Pd

"I challenge anyone to disagree they don't support foreign dependency. The beauty of living in free global market. It is the price u pay. If u own a home I can also guarantee it is backed by foreign investors.
Don't be filled with ignorant idealism that simply does not exist in this country. We can't bite the hand that feeds us."

It is possible to support policies of foreign trade and capitalist economic stimulation on a world scale while not supporting individuals or groups to live in and call their host country home while refusing to assimilate into the new culture compromising the principles of that new culture.

I think two different issues are being argued here. I personally would rather have anti American immigrants assimilate and become pro American and perpetuate the good of OUR culture than go home and back to their own. That is the outcome of a cultural melting pot...the kind of melting pot the OP was talking about.....your talking about an economic melting pot.

Nico please enlighten me with how Muslim ppl do not assimilate into US culture becoz I don't c it. Is it becoz ppl of this nature go down on their knees to pray? Is it becoz they call their god Allah? Is it becoz they don't drink? Please enlighten me. I don't see ppl of this nature burning American flags. Matter of fact usually flag burners r white radicals. Still u have not stated a case or demonstrated y ppl of this nature do not deserve to live here or even proven they hate Americans. This sounds like good ol racism @ its finest.

Pd

"If you are too hung-up and sensitive on "preservation-of--identity", then you can stay home. And the least one can do is to not to despise the host.."

Agree totally Gaurav .. diversity is interesting, yet respect is key to ANY 'host country'. If your cultural identity is that crucial, stay where it's most appreciated, accepted.

Having any kind of voice is better than having no voice at all - And as for emotions versus pragmatism neither can actually do without each other. Thatz an eternal love-hate relationship. Man has little ability to extract a pattern from something which might be truly random. As if somebody is playing a joke upon us.

"diversity is interesting, yet respect is key to ANY 'host country'. "

Absoultely, Mystic. Itz relatively easy to talk of failed assimilation efforts than actually studying the causes behind it. You can allow ppl to cross borders but then they were never trained/programmed to survive in your system. Religion/culture only exacerbates it. I dont believe that anyone would deliberately want to be ungrateful - and frankly most of the reasonable requests are met when one takes them to reasonable forums for approval. For the rest, this was never supposed to a fair world in the first place - one can only push the mean but not the distribution.

Excuse me with a topic complainig about integrated society and assimilation to our culture one does not have to have erudite intellect capacity to see that NO ONE on this forum has given examples or said how ppl of middle eastern countries are not assimilating to US way of life. Call ppl like me do-gooders however I believe our country's constitition is based on justice to embrace the divesity of all civil librities.intellectualize this topic all you want however let's call this for what it is in black and white there is a lot of prejudice in this country alive and well.

Pd

Btw I don't see middle eastern pol disrespecting our country again give examples or explain what you mean by this? Hell American citizens disrespect our country by calling our president an idiot. Should we all be banished from our country for thinking and feeling this way?

Pd

Cusp powers I wld have to say your thoughts r based on emotion of how u feel about foriegn ppl. I have presented many facts about why diversity exist however u have not given any fact to back this topic

I tend to flow on my own opinion based on facts

Sorry for typos typin from blackberry

Sorry for typos typin from blackberry

What fact do u want me to provide?

This is one example of my argument against multi-culturism
I am angry and pissed off that in heaps of towns and villages (im originally from England) the local council wont put up Christmas Decorations on the streets because it "Offends" certain cultures!Namely Muslims!
Excuse Me!!
I accept there are different cultures and religious beliefs but that is THEM forcing their beliefs onto me by trying to get that banned!!
We grew up loving Christmas and all the decorations and atmosphere in our local towns and now they want to stop all of it!!!!
I re-iterate, "If ya dont like it, Get the hell out"
Ive heard NOTHING on here to make me change my opinion, and i am NOT racist, i will NOT let my culture slowly be eroded away just because im too scared to open my bloody mouth and say what I (and many others) think.

i concur dogsbody, that is getting out of hand. Over here too ..it's supposed to be *Season's Greetings* ..not *Merry Christmas* anymore.. Despite the imposed 'lemming' kind of marketing from greeting cards to holiday advertising, i still proudly say "MERRY CHRISTMAS" ..People have been say 'merry christmas' here for hundreds of years. Even if this was from a small sector, it somehow got its own power over our own valued traditions, "INSIDE" of our own country. (Thank God we still got our xmas trees and decorations, ain't letting go of that..lol Yeah, enough is enough..)

Wow all this anger n resentment over a xmas tree n ornaments that were made in china. I am sorry that you don't get to toss tinsle on ur tree but I hardly believe this is the fault of some Muslim ppl. There are many Americans in this country who don't buy into commercialized Christian Christmas becoz they simply don't believe. It is not the fault of one religious grp that we try to b politically n socially correct.

U obviously feel strongly enough to b angered. If we were honest with ourselves db I think the underline issue is u simply don't like middle eastern ppl becoz they r different than u. That is okay becoz I am sure there r ppl who don't like u for that same reason. Let's just call a spade a spade n admit this is a simple case of hate.I did not realize Christian ppl take their xmas trees so personally

Christian religion is not the only religion in this country.

Well anyway I am sorry a Christmas tree would bring u to a place of so much hate. Perhaps this is something worth praying about.I guess u wld hate me too becoz I am a practicing buddhist.

Pd

The "Christmas" thing was just one example.
If i moved to China, i would at least be intellegent enough to learn the basics of the language in order to make myself understood.
Many immigrants cant speak a single word of english, nor do they intend learning, because they already have a network of others who they can communicate with, many of THEM non-english speakers also.
They have no intention of assimilating. This isnt predjudice, ive lived in the same suburbs and streets as them, they DONT want to know.
Funny Though, they do understand the term "Social Security" !!
As Soon as they get their feet under the table (as it were) they start demanding this or that from the local councils, god forbid the councils should say no, otherwise theyre racist.
There are far too many people who are too fond of putting everything under the "Racist" banner.
In short, you go to a country, you should be prepared to learn their language,their culture,and abide by their laws, Certainly not expect that country to learn yours (in most cases the culture that theyre running away from in the first place)

"Not Gonna Happen"
So were gonna have public beheadings, stonings, here before long then!!
and They "ARE" trying to stop me celebrating in the way ive been used too. See my previous comments.

and regarding the "Fair Skinned" comments, actually, when was the last time you saw "Fair Skinned" people on the streets demanding the death penalty for anyone who offends them NEVER!!
Because we are civilised!!

OFA - I agree with you about knowing many people of middle east descent who have acclimated pretty damn well to American life. I went to school with this guy from Saudi Arabia and he is now living back home and we still talk. Trust me his way of life in Saudi is WAY more luxurious than what he had here in Denver. He lives in a palace type home with servents but he really loved his American life and even the Christmas traditions. He has NEVER disrespected me or any of our traditions. He has also exposed me to his own beliefs and way of life.

Again, I see this thread as a simple reason to hate on people because they are different and believe differently. Wow and we thought holly wars were only happening in the middle east ....little did we know.

So this goody goody girl is done with this thread for now.

DB - I just want to let you know I am glad I have opened my mind to people of difference because it has exposed me to different cultrual knowledge than my own. This thread will not change my mind either. So respectfully I understand there are people who think differently than me and that is okay. There may even be people who don't like me because of my opinion and I am okay with that too.

I do believe in fair play so that is why I did not go silent. Best wishes this Christmas.

A scripture for you:

Ephesians 4:29;31

PD

A - "I do not understand 80% of the people who type at this site. I really don't."

I agree.

I guess what Dogsbody was telling about is more serious - itz appeasement. I constantly see it happening in India and not all of it is proactive - primarily it is the vote-bank politics where political parties are chasing minority votes who normally relish being pampered and vote en-bloc based on religious lines. And personally, I see a point in sending a strong ( not violent ) message to such communities - that no religion is special, unique or superior so as to demand extra privileges and rights than others. And people should realize that taking religion out of the personal realm and onto the streets,placing it above nationalism every now and then can be really annoying or unnerving.

And I guess the whole issue got muddled up - perhaps the protagonist was talking of those ppl treat their culture as the best and are resistant towards any form of assimilation. And such ppl do exist - itz a reality.

Then you have people on the other side who are very normal in every sense- they are flexible, open and sensible. So stereotyping people on either of these lines would be wrong. Am an Indian and I have faced racism in UK a number of times - dirty glares, veiled criticisms, rude behavior etc. etc. and some of that can of course be branded as isolated cases. Again the root casuse is stereotyping - it is indeed very saddening, demoralizing and frustrating to see that normal people are not given a chance at times. But personally, I convince myself by assuming that life is a mixed bag, always. You always get something good to compensate for the worst.

okay, I wasn't going to get involved in this conversation but out of curiosity and boredom I was reading along....so you want examples.

Well let me first address the assertion that the christmas story is against seperation of church and state... you see, when the town council will not allow christmas decorations because it offends muslims, that is NOT seperation of church and state... that is the local government saying your religion offends their religion so we're going to violate your first ammendment right and not allow the decorations. Something similar happened at a restaurant I used to work at - some muslim people sued the company for singing happy birthday to some guests because it offended their religion [they don't celebrate birthdays]

also, there is the language thign - I agree, you want to come to this country and make a better life for yourself? great! learn the language - don't force other people to learn yours in their own country. Now I personally enjoy learning foreign languages and study many of them - but it still pisses me off that companies hire an entire staff, wehther it be a cleaning crew, kitchen staff, office staf, or any other, that all speak the same foreign language because they can';t communicate with other employees who don't speak their language and/or they only want clientele that are of the same or similar cultural background and only speak that language.

Let's also address the assertion that a failure to assimilate is defined by disrespecting the country: families who still arrange their childrens marriages here, men who beat their wives and tehir wives don't go to the police because that's not their culture, and women who are forced [not the ones who choose] to cover their bodies and not wear make-up or drive cars, etc because of their culture are NOT assimiliated.

Now....dogsbody opened this thread by talking about the ones who DO hate our country and our culture, and I agree those people should have stayed where they came from. But that does not mean that every foreigner who comes to this counry fits that category. But yes, there are some who do.

and one more thing - don't forget the illegal immigrants who come here and take advantage of government programs that yours and my tax dollars pay for.... NOT THEIRS.

oh, and in case you needed a more specific example of foreigners living in this country who hate americans, how about my muslim ex boyfriend from Yemen and his iranian friend who in 2001 draped american flags from the windows of our home and then sat in the living room watching the news and saying "fuck America, save Bin Laden!"; obviously I didn't know about the terrorist cell sentimantalities until those attacks happened.

If you think there aren't really people here who feel the way dogsbody described you are in serious denial.