religion is the opiate of the masses

First, I must apologize to anyone who was offended by the topic statement. My actual question is, what do you deem the importance of religion in society today? What role/impact/power over our lives does/should it have and why?

Quick answer...none. I believe it is an individual thing based on the notion of spirituality. Obviously there are some positive benefits for society, eg, community spirit, love thy neighbour, be kind to strangers and all that (don't need to be religious for that I know) and there always some negatives, eg, religious persecution, intolerance, war whatever.

The 2nd part to your question...don't know if "should it have" be appropriate..I believe that no one should try to confom to ANY religion..we are who we are and which ever specific religion should conform to US. Not making much sense..it's early...meaning, internally at our core we have an essence of who we are and any if not, spiritual beliefs, so therefore in consideration of that, religion finds US that mirrors our OWN belief system and THEN we can say we are Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Agnostic, Atheist etc...the label is just an unbrella for our own internal beliefs and ideals.

Does that make any sense?

Yes that makes sense but when I say "should" it have any power/impact in our lives, I am not talking about a particular religion such as Christianity or Islam, but, for those who have a religion or strong sense of spirituality, what role in their lives does it take? For role I mean do you have to be spiritual all the time, do you follow all the "rules" of the religion or only some (and how do you pick which ones to follow)? I guess you sort of answered the question by bringing up the idea of your own system of beliefs that you mirror in a particular religion... so maybe I'm being redundant (its not early here but I'm really tired). Oh well, if you need a translation of anything I say, feel free to ask what I mean by something.

"what do you deem the importance of religion in society today? What role/impact/power over our lives does/should it have and why?"

EXCELLENT QUESTION AND NOTHING TO BE OFFENDED ABOUT. WE CAN DISUCUSS THESE THINGS!

Nice to hear from you! Religion is an inappropiate word, or better put crutch/blanket. I don't celebrate religion; my eye is on the cross, on a hill
called mount calvary, where Jesus, the son of the living God, payed the
supreme price for all those who would accept him, and then, he Jesus,
asked that they be forgiven, and If I can ever get to the place in life where I too can forgive, then I will have learned the teachings of Jesus, does religion
have a place, yes, if it's a christian, did this help??

Well, hardly anyone keeps all tyhe rules no matter what religion it is
The Bible says " if you break the least of these , my commands, you break them all", the catholics get some one else to take the blame[priest] islam
blames it on the Jewa and the Jews blame it on every one, "you hoit me"
"oiy, oiy; get me Silverburg the lawyer", so I don't know, there is 460 something laws the Jews have to keep, I mean, c'mon.. ok
The bible was written for to the Jews for the Jews and about them. Keep it in mind when interperting.

cool..I get your drift.

Personally, I have along way to go...lol. I believe in my faith but don't practice it as often as I perhaps should, although when I DO practice it, it is more like "oh, that is a good thing" or you do it b/c it is an intergral part of you, but at the time I don't see it connected with my faith, even though it is.

It depends on the person.

I am suprised your post got to stay, rather inflammatory, Luz hehe...love ya!🙂 that is what you do to me!

You need to cool it on these wordy posts of yours, they are getting out of contol.

I like to get up early in the morning when the day is brand new and young and listen to nothing but the sound of the earth breathing. I can hear mother nature and that is all. And then I go talk the Lord and I talk to him just like I talk to a friend. I have no ceremony or ritual I just talk from the heart between him and me, and let him know I love him and I thank him for everything he does for me, and tell him I am sorry if needed. Constant process with relationships and that is what it is, a personal relationship! He gives so much more!!!

Yeah Suzy, I understand what you meant about the rules and the Jewish faith. Quite a bit of my family is Jewish and and lived for about six years with my aunt&uncle who are Jewish. They aren't the most religious people I have met by far, but their idea is that religion is best for teaching lessons, such as the golden rule, honor, and kindness. (so long as you disregard the fact that it was written by men and their views on women weren't too favorable)

However, what exactly do you mean by the rest of the statement about Jews? I do not want to misinterpret and think you're saying something you aren't.

What is religion anyway? Isn't just something we believe very strongly in or something we live our lives by? For example, someone who really lives for baseball would hear people say that "Baseball is his religion". So religion is simply your values, whether they're traditional or not and whether you want to call them a religion or not. That's it.

"However, what exactly do you mean by the rest of the statement about Jews? I do not want to misinterpret and think you're saying something you aren't."

What do you want me to explain, the part about the lawyer, or the part about the bible being written by Jews for Jews and about them? I love the Jewish people, so dont take offense to the above post. We can all stand to be little less sensitive around here and else where in the world!

Morganofmind,

I would say that the religion is the worship of God, and I dont think people, as crazy as some are, would use baseball or even Elvis as an example, but you never know!
I do get your point, however, it is a weak one!

I used to be an extremely religious person by your definition, Suzy-Q. However, for some reason, I forgot why I was. Now I can't figure out why I ever believed in anything. It just seemed to me I believed in God because lots of people told me to, and that just wasn't enough proof for me.

One other point:
If religion is the belief in God, what about all those religions which consist of many gods (ex Hinduism) or no gods at all (ex Buddhism)?

"Now I can't figure out why I ever believed in anything"

morgan- you're contradicting yourself... I thought you we a bochanal pagan?

=) just teasing you

"If religion is the belief in God, what about all those religions which consist of many gods (ex Hinduism) or no gods at all (ex Buddhism)?"

That would have to be answered by someone who has no faith and not by me.

"I used to be an extremely religious person by your definition, Suzy-Q. However, for some reason, I forgot why I was. Now I can't figure out why I ever believed in anything. It just seemed to me I believed in God because lots of people told me to, and that just wasn't enough proof for me."

And if you are going at it from that point, you wont believe in anything.

I would say to you, and I dont know your age bracket or where you are in life, after you go through some things in your life like I have and the way you get through it and when you do, come talk to me about it some more.

It is about faith, and that is what it is.

What, you think Hindu's Buddhists, Muslims or WHOEVER who don't conform to your christian religion don't have any faith—

Rather an ignorant statement. And may I add, a very 'christian' one too! IT's ppl like you who give christianity a bad name and your attitude reflects the reason why there is now a war against terror.

It's hard to determine whether this is your REAL view, or just one to incite arguement. Either way, it shows a shallowness that surprises me. Usually ppl with horses are grounded and have oodles of common sense...you learn something new every day!

May I suggest to use that 'prison time' of yours to do some introspection...your character needs some serious attention.

LawGoddess,

ho are you talking to? I know you arent talking to me, because we have already gone over this before, several times. Are you ready to listen?? I will do it again when you are in the receiving mode!

I believe Morganofmind is not a believer of any religion and mentioned she is a pagan. I never said that Christians were the only example of faith inspired worshippers. Geez, you are a little to quick to fire at people. Just dont fire at someone without cause. I think you have a chip on both shoulders from your husbands experience. 'Prison time' I work for the county prosecutors office?

I am not a pagan, I never said I was, I was only kidding around with Gwen because she called me a Banshee. Let me just get this clear, I am completely agnostic. I have faith in doubt.

"I have faith in doubt".

wow

LoL... morgan...

"I doubt, therefore I am"

"I believe Morganofmind is not a believer of any religion and mentioned she is a pagan" Suzy-Q

Sorry to dig in on you but I have to. A pagan is "One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion"

Also, Hinduism can be interpreted as either monotheistic or polytheistic. All the gods are in fact the manifestations of one.

I think I am wasting my time here, on this subject, with you!

oooh, good points, Parallax.

I've said the very same things you just have Parallax, but it seems to come across differently, for some reason.

Hey everyone...

Well I agree with many points on this thread...Lawgoddess suggested religion is based on the notion of spirituality and I agree with that 100% because it wasn't until I began to dicover the realms of myself as a whole with my mind that I descovered I do actually have a soul otherwise known as a spirit...and it wasn't until then that I saw any reason to belong to anything other than my parents or myself and life was pretty lawless at that point in my existance...

While I also agree that religion is totally an individual thing I believe it manifests itself through society...ie to pick up on what Parallax said...a societies core set of values will be interpreted by the dominant religion found within that society...excellant point Parallax.

Parallax...do you belong to the religion of money...?

I was just wondering how deem being "well off" or "less fortunate" a decieding factor in what part religion plays in your life...?

My belief is that we are exactly where we choose to be right throughout our life...masters of our own destiny through the gift of our choice and free will on earth...

These religious organisations that you speak of that do all this charity...I've seen them and I've even belonged to them before.
While I do agree their work is good, true and noble my feeling is also that it breeds a dependant life style and mentality that eats it's way into society like a silent cancer leaving us nowhere. Like a double entry system the charity might credit the books of society but the lame mentality that depends on it debits the account right back to zero...

People need to take responsibility for their own actions and learn to stand on their own two feet, not use religion as the crutch it is so often used for.

I both agree and disagree with you Parallax...

I think that some very wise people influenced religion to create a reason to follow a certain set of values that were good. (ex... if you're bad you go to hell, if you're good you go to heaven). I've never once said to anyone that relgion is bad or wrong- It does a lot of good, it gives something for people to believe in. I just don't need it for myself to do good.

But the only thing I don't like (and you didn't really address this) is when people believe that only through religion you can do good. Right now I'm doing tons of community service and I prefer to be doing it without having to go thtrough religion but here I am, a part of the what we call the Campus Ministry at my college, a Catholic community service organization that goes throuhgout the world. Sorry... it just makes me mad that because I was never a part of a church, I never had the connections to be able to do services like helping the homeless or collecting donations. Think about it: if a twenty-year-old walked around asking for donations to feed the homeless, people would think he's trying to scam them or that he is homeless. If you say you're a part of a church organization then people automatically trust you, because you're good and moral.... sorry, again I'm starting to vent. Don't mind me if I sound rude or bored or distracted.

The day was almost over. The sun had just gone down. Everyone was sitting in a circle . . . It was one of those evenings when there?s nothing better to do than sit in a circle and contemplate why they were all there sitting in a circle. Life?s like that sometimes. There?s no reason to be there, but not a good enough reason to leave. So they make excuses to stay. Better to stay with false reasoning than to venture into a reasonless unknown.
So the questions start: What are we really doing here? Why are really here? Where are we really going? Is there anymore coke in the fridge? Is it worth the trip to the fridge to get up and get the coke if there?s a good chance the coke isn?t there? Was the coke ever really there at all? Was the coke only there because they thought it was there? Are they really there?
It is questions like these that stir up the kind of arguments men are willing to kill each other over. Is it worth it all? People, apparently, would kill to find out.
But not these people.
That?s what happens when there?s no initiative. That?s why communism didn?t work.
But still people will argue that communism will work. It?s just one more reason for people to get their fill of the much loved argument. And it doesn?t really matter what the argument is, just as long as it?s open for discussion. People love discussion, especially if that discussion escalates into tactical nuclear weapons. People are suckers for a little real life drama.
But when you can?t find any real life drama, like these people, you make up drama to play out in hypothetical real life situations. And in this case, the hypothetical situation is the end of the world.
The end of the world: is it really all that bad a thing?
?No. I can?t wait until the end of the world. I heard there?s a really great barbeque buffet in hell.?
?Really? I thought they were into sins and torture in Hell, not barbeque.?
?Yeah, remember, gluttony? One of the seven deadly sins? Hell?s drawing people from all around just for that one.?
As this particular discussion continued, they decided that sins weren?t really so deadly, especially if you were dead, and a really excellent barbeque buffet was worth the trip to Hell.
?Not to mention some of the other sins . . . ? And that was the end of that discussion.
But this discussion brought up a new one.
?I don?t believe in Heaven or Hell.?
?Yeah, me neither. It?s too intangible an idea. Especially when there?s people who argue that Heaven and Hell are actually states of mind and you?re in heaven when you?re completely happy, but then you?re completely happy at an all you can eat barbeque buffet, but that?s gluttony, so now you?re in Hell.?
?Yeah.?
That?s just fine. What do you people believe in?
?I don?t really believe in anything.?
?I can?t believe you guys. You are all so going to burn in Hell. Why don?t you repent now? It?s not too late. Declare your love to Jesus and give your will to God. Then you will be saved.?
There was silence for a moment after this statement while a few of them actually contemplated what had just been said. Hey, they had nothing better to do at the time.
Then there was another statement.
?Get real.?
None of them seemed to acknowledge the irony in this statement, whether they realized it or not, which wasn?t too likely to begin with. When your vision of reality is blurred, it?s hard to realize you don?t really know what real is.
Never the less, each of them professed to know.
?God, you?ve got to be kidding me. Everyone knows that there?s no place for God in today?s society. The church was created after the fall of the Roman Empire in order to keep all the peasants in line. I mean, it was a last ditch effort by the Romans to try and keep the world as their subjects. To day God is just an anti-progress relic.?
?You just contradicted yourself. You just swore to a God you claim doesn?t exist

Right Back at you Parallax...happy Thanksgiving.

Morgan...Haha...LOL. When I think of the number of times my flat mates and I have done a similar thing to your story and usually when passing the "peace pipe" I'm filled with joy.

Joy for the experiance...joy for life to experiance the experiance.

Gwen...you are great. I totally hear you that you or I nor anyone else for that matter needs a religion to do good. I don't really have a religion other than life, but as I said I'm a very spiritual person which has given me many correlating morals to and from all sorts of religions I've come into contact with but that doesn't mean I belong to them nor believe them wrong or right.

My belief is that people need to discover and become comfortable with and within themselves...be able to just be...as it is I AM that I AM...

It is not until you know who you are first that you can even think of being able to be a part of something else like a religion because without a full understanding of yourself what would you really have to offer to anyone or anything else...?

How do we do that...the answer is so simple...

We live and conduct ourselves as we see fit...

Nothing esle would be fitting.

"How could there really be a reality?
The answer was thus: it just was."

That's right, Morgan and Durrie.

Bottom line is, it works for me. I like what I like and I want what I want and I dont care about all the long drawn philisophical stuff!

Love,
SuzyQ!

I sent this thread out to a very wise old man who gave back this reply:

Very bright and fascinating people; they are not players they are by standers who come to watch and not participate. They are only here to criticize, and believe in their
superior posture. Do you need religion to do good? Of course not! Is someone inherently evil? Yes, they are the children of Cain, a murderer. Jesus left us with one more commandment: love one another as he has loved us. My
2 cents...

LOL... I feel squashed.
Thanx for the criticizm. Now I know I'm a good for nothing bystander who gets nothing done and thinks I'm better than any one else... I didn't know that before...

We don't discuss because we are convinced we're right. We discuss because we want to know if we are wrong.

Parallax--hey there, I just now came over here and read your compliments to me about my website and I just wanted to say thank you! 🙂 Although I don't have time to really jump in to this discussion like I want to, I'm sure I'll be back around here soon enough to "critisize and believe in my superior posture". LOL 😛

TTYL,
Heather

Dont get paranoid, Morgan. How do you know your name was mentioned?

"My point was this. America is a land of abundance (for the most part) and I see people very lackadaisical towards religion, whereas in the poorer country's I've visited, people are very devoted to their religion, and it's a central part of their lives, because they depend on it. That is why I suggested MAYBE there is a correlation. I don't know, what's better; to walk with a crutch or be left to crawl? Anyway be cool and have yourself a good Thanksgiving!"

This is one of my favorite posts to date. All kinds of wisdom in here!

....Miss Morgan, anyone can read any of the religous threads and see who was convincing who or trying to. But then again, I am on a astrology board.

Isn't this the Religion board?

Morgan said 'WE', so I took that as a group of people. Maybe you being included, Phoenix, but I dont recall your views on religion. This is a religious discussion, and with enough opinions to draw some conclusions. My suggestion was to read as many as she could stand, and get the entire picture.

Ahh, okay. I see, I see.

Hello everyone...

SuzyQ...your friend does seem pretty wise and has some vey interesting comments which I find some truths in when I think about them...

I was wondering if you could get him to join our conversations and discuss his comments further with us because...

Were he to label anyone and refere to them as..."by standers who come to watch and not participate" and who..."are only here to criticize, and believe in their superior posture" while without infact joining our coversation and sharing his thoughs further and explaining their origons...that would make HIM nothing more than an highly opinionated bystander himself...it has no credability...—

This is my quandry in life at present. How do you have an opinion without takeing a stand...and how do you take a stand without stepping on others toes...it's inevitable and a question that plagues my mind momentarily until I experiance lifes joys agiain.

You see I know I am a plesant person. I am confident in saying that because I know even though I curse people below my breath in times of strife, stress and pain I would never intentionally wish or do harm to another living thing.
I also know I can always do better and learn more through life should that be my hearts desire as we are doing right now.

Life is a strange thing really...even though we all may have our own religion we follow and things we enjoy there is still something that binds us all together regardless of creed, colour, religion or anything...

We all ask why...we all want to know the answer...we are all here on earth together...and from this I conclude that we are all the same.

I think it has something to do with the sphere...it's a perfect shape...it has a starting point and there are millions of routes you can take to get back to that point but never leave it's surface.
Another way to think of it is that good 'ol saying "everything comes full circle"...Hmmm maybe that's why the earth is round...—

Have your God people...pray to Him/Her, as I pray to mine for if it brings you joy and gives you guidance who am I to say it is wrong...it's your life, it's your path, live it as you wish...but please...please...

Let me live mine...!!!

Good Mornin you cutiepatootiemunchin,

How is that for a pet name—?!!!!

Oops, looks like I stepped on your toes, again.

As far as the wise man having credibilty, I asked him for his thoughts and he gave them to me. I really dont think he is into having lengthy dialougs.
And you are right the only way we can continue is to allow everyone to say anything they want. Which means either some of us will have to grow a spine or not participate.

Q

Cutiepatootiemunchin...ha...I like that...

SusyQ...you didn't step on my toes, you've gotta learn not to take things so personally, it's much like I explained above and had a conversation with Phoenix about...

You "assume" to much...find out the facts before takeing a stand and makeing your mind up...
It's as I said to Phoenix...assumption is the mother of all F-Ups...

Just a friendly word of advice from one munchkin to another...

Luv as always...
Durrie.

Interesting. Well, (from my superior position, sitting upon my throne), can someone bring a plate of lobster mornay with a nice chardonnay to wash it down with!

Wise old man indeed! Poobar! Sounds like a judgemental hypercrite to me. I am not a 'sinner' nor am I inherently evil. Neither is anyone I know. Just a crutch (as someone said earlier).

So who is right and who is wrong? Who gives a toss anyway..we're all going to die, and THAT is the reality of it. It's how we live our lives NOW that counts. Besides, we all have many incarnations to go before reaching enlightenment, so plenty of time to learn!

Hey! Shirley as in McClain,

This conversation has NO purpose because you dont believe in the bible.

The wise old man asks you this, "in your next life how would you like to return as the black woman in Africa who is under a death sentence for adultery and will soon be stoned to death?".
Nothing to do with Chrisitanity these things are done in the name of ala.

One more question, how do you get enlightened when you are dead?

It is appointed on command to die only once and then the judgement. You can only live once and that is biblical.

And yes, you are a sinner, we all are!

Your responses are getting rather tedious...once again..tunnel vision!!!

That's my 2 cents worth!

Hey, I like Shirley McClaine. 😛

I don't think this discussion is futile, or pointless, or whatever (insert likewise negative adjective here). It only becomes so when someone says "you don't believe in ___ so there's no point in talking about it". Who's to say that just because 2 people disagree, a discussion couldn't enlighten both of them? Their basic opinions may or may not change, but maybe something can be learned; for instance, other people's views that you didn't know existed or perhaps hadn't even thought about before. I've always thought it strange when people cling and stick to one set way of thinking when they haven't considered the trillions of other ways of thinking out there. It is admirable to have beliefs and stick to them, but only if you've educated yourself very thoroughly on *all* other belief systems first. That is why I am so reluctant to just identify myself with one particular religion or creed or whatever.

Good point Phoenix!

Parallax and Lawgoddess...good to see you here!

Durrie, you brought up some points about choice and free will that I totally agree with! And, yes, I totally agree that each should follow their own path! Keep following yours as I am mine!

I can't remember if it was you Gwen who talked about good deeds and how they are more accepted if it is through a religious organization...this is not surprising when you are asking for money..don't you agree? How many total strangers have you given money to? I am not saying you haven't...I am only suggesting that when one does, one never knows what the money is going to be used for. I have given money (and so has my daughter) to complete strangers...we do not know if it is for what they say it is for...but, I always pray first (so does my daughter) and then I have a feeling if I should or shouldn't...
I think the world is in a sad state today and I try to do my part to try to change things. If someone approaches me from a religion collecting, I will probably not give because I will not know if the money was spent on the churches heating bill or went to directly help someone!
I am more likely to give to a man who is holding a sign that says he will work for food! But, that is just me!