shellshocker
@shellshocker
15 Years1,000+ Posts
Comments: 21 · Posts: 4200 · Topics: 67
Pluto hard aspect Help, plS
Audience: In one of our lessons, you mentioned the word 'scapegoat' in relation to Pluto aspects. How does that work?
Clare: Scapegoating occurs whenever a person, group, family, tribe or society refuses, either consciously or unconsciously, to take responsibility for its own primitive darkness - in other words, for its own Pluto. In these cases, the darkness will be projected onto an individual or another group, tribe or race. They are blamed and scapegoated for the qualities that the group is not prepared to own.
In families, there is often a kind of unconscious contract, in which one member of the family, usually the most sensitive one, lives out the family taboos because they can't bear the weight of the dishonesty or the poison of the unconscious collusion. This person will not only bring the taboos to the surface, but will also be blamed for doing so. This is where the idea of the 'black sheep of the family' comes from, which is another aspect of the scapegoat.
This same mechanism occurs with all kinds of collectives, and with countries as well. Other groups or nations or races will be scapegoated in an effort to maintain the moral high ground. Someone or something else has to carry the evil and the darkness that are not being recognised within.
Clare: Scapegoating occurs whenever a person, group, family, tribe or society refuses, either consciously or unconsciously, to take responsibility for its own primitive darkness - in other words, for its own Pluto. In these cases, the darkness will be projected onto an individual or another group, tribe or race. They are blamed and scapegoated for the qualities that the group is not prepared to own.
In families, there is often a kind of unconscious contract, in which one member of the family, usually the most sensitive one, lives out the family taboos because they can't bear the weight of the dishonesty or the poison of the unconscious collusion. This person will not only bring the taboos to the surface, but will also be blamed for doing so. This is where the idea of the 'black sheep of the family' comes from, which is another aspect of the scapegoat.
This same mechanism occurs with all kinds of collectives, and with countries as well. Other groups or nations or races will be scapegoated in an effort to maintain the moral high ground. Someone or something else has to carry the evil and the darkness that are not being recognised within.
Betrayal, jealousy, death, re-birth, other people's money... are Pluto issues and I have leaps of experiences in all of them. At various points in my life they have all been personal. But now that my core is settled, it seems like I get it non stop from outside sources. To the extent that total isolation looks like the only answer.
My question is... what the hell can I do about it?
Do you relate? Thoughts?
My question is... what the hell can I do about it?
Do you relate? Thoughts?
Thanks, and I'll pick up the book.
It is on a daily basis. Yesterday, I found an iphone in the middle of a huge parking lot. I pick it up and throw it in the back of the car cause I was late for an appointment. I went to my meeting, had to run across town then back to pick up my kids from school. I get home and hear the phone going off. I go to pick it up to tell the people that I found the phone and miss the call. (can't figure how it works, haha) So i read the text on the screen and it says...
"RETURN THE PHONE! NO QUESTIONS ASKED! WE ARE TRACKING YOU!!!!" Then they name the locals that I had stopped at.
This is all within 2 hours of me finding the fucking thing! This freaks me out and I call my Man to save me from the crazy people. Before he can get there a woman and a man come banging on my front door. They are all aggressive! I explained I didn't even look at the phone until I had got home and was about to contact them, but when I saw the threatening text I was going to wait for my boyfriend because I didn't feel safe.
It was like they blamed me for THEM loosing their phone. They thought I should have contacted them right away when I found it, like their connection to their stupid technology was supposed to be MY #1 priority. In my own home. I got aggressive.. then they seemed to remember that I had found their phone for them... and thanked me. They offered a reward but I refused and kicked their asses out of my house.
I got 100 examples like this. seriously... wtf?
The tracking feature scares the shit out of me on a whole other level... but if I ever see a phone in the middle of the street again... I'm letting the cars run over it. fuck trying to be nice 😛
It is on a daily basis. Yesterday, I found an iphone in the middle of a huge parking lot. I pick it up and throw it in the back of the car cause I was late for an appointment. I went to my meeting, had to run across town then back to pick up my kids from school. I get home and hear the phone going off. I go to pick it up to tell the people that I found the phone and miss the call. (can't figure how it works, haha) So i read the text on the screen and it says...
"RETURN THE PHONE! NO QUESTIONS ASKED! WE ARE TRACKING YOU!!!!" Then they name the locals that I had stopped at.
This is all within 2 hours of me finding the fucking thing! This freaks me out and I call my Man to save me from the crazy people. Before he can get there a woman and a man come banging on my front door. They are all aggressive! I explained I didn't even look at the phone until I had got home and was about to contact them, but when I saw the threatening text I was going to wait for my boyfriend because I didn't feel safe.
It was like they blamed me for THEM loosing their phone. They thought I should have contacted them right away when I found it, like their connection to their stupid technology was supposed to be MY #1 priority. In my own home. I got aggressive.. then they seemed to remember that I had found their phone for them... and thanked me. They offered a reward but I refused and kicked their asses out of my house.
I got 100 examples like this. seriously... wtf?
The tracking feature scares the shit out of me on a whole other level... but if I ever see a phone in the middle of the street again... I'm letting the cars run over it. fuck trying to be nice 😛
Posted by crabcakesandmayoPosted by Sutekh
Martial arts trust Me
Meditation, sports
I have Moon Square Pluto Scorpio in the first. These are murderous , abusive aspects, channel the energy constructively.
I actually created a Moon-Pluto topic on astro.com
I 2nd the sports angle!! A lot of spots..click to expand
ya, I did various sports when I was younger and loved pushing myself. I absolutely need a physical release to keep myself balanced.
Posted by DazedScorpPosted by shellshocker
My question is... what the hell can I do about it?
Do you relate? Thoughts?
1. Recognize the difficulties
2. Accept them and don't fight them (The hardest part)
3. Find a healthy outlet (The easier part)
It would help if those were reversed.
btw...
Moon (2nd house) Sq Pluto (5th house)
Mars (8th house) Sq Pluto (5th house)
click to expand
8th house Mars? yikes :/
More often than not, when someone is coming at me I know exactly what is going on. So I can detach from the unfairness of what they are doing... and concentrate on how I'm going to handle myself. And it is much easier to let things go, now.
But when I do snap...it's fast and brutal, always unexpected because I look very young.
Sometimes aggressive and scarey... Moon conjunct Mars (Aries)
Sometimes they leave (quickly) and are not quite sure what hit them.... Moon/Mars trine Neptune
Last week, my car battery died in the middle of a busy street. I hate winter. I'm alone so I call my road side assistance for a tow. It's freezing... and I'm a girl.. so I'm not going to get out and try to push my car.
Two guys come up and push my car to the side of the road. Awwww... so nice! One older guy is telling me in detail what I need to do. I mean breaking it down for me... I already know what's wrong with my car and ignore because they are helping me. I play the "poor little helpless girl" I show my appreciation and sit to wait for the tow truck.
20 mins later... the older of the two guys comes back. He starts asking me a ton of questions. My 'alert' button has been triggered. I tell him, "My battery is dead but I think it may be the alternator." He's surprised. And offers to give me a jump. It works. Yay!
I thank him. He wants to follow me to my mechanics. I say that is ok, and thank him again. I start driving... he follows me anyway.
At the mechanic, I stop to confront him BEFORE I go into the shop. I thank him again. He offers to wait and drive me home. I fucking knew it!! Dirty old man. Now, I have to turn the 'bitch' on.. just a little bit because this guy doesn't get "NO" as an answer.
What does he do? He starts giving me a lecture on how I need to keep better care of my battery! When to turn it off, how high I should put the heater on, never use my driving lights during the day... blah, blah, blah.
I had to just turn around and walk away.
I also stopped to have a long lunch and took an alternative route before going home.
I have so many stories...
Two guys come up and push my car to the side of the road. Awwww... so nice! One older guy is telling me in detail what I need to do. I mean breaking it down for me... I already know what's wrong with my car and ignore because they are helping me. I play the "poor little helpless girl" I show my appreciation and sit to wait for the tow truck.
20 mins later... the older of the two guys comes back. He starts asking me a ton of questions. My 'alert' button has been triggered. I tell him, "My battery is dead but I think it may be the alternator." He's surprised. And offers to give me a jump. It works. Yay!
I thank him. He wants to follow me to my mechanics. I say that is ok, and thank him again. I start driving... he follows me anyway.
At the mechanic, I stop to confront him BEFORE I go into the shop. I thank him again. He offers to wait and drive me home. I fucking knew it!! Dirty old man. Now, I have to turn the 'bitch' on.. just a little bit because this guy doesn't get "NO" as an answer.
What does he do? He starts giving me a lecture on how I need to keep better care of my battery! When to turn it off, how high I should put the heater on, never use my driving lights during the day... blah, blah, blah.
I had to just turn around and walk away.
I also stopped to have a long lunch and took an alternative route before going home.
I have so many stories...
I have Cap sun (5th house) square Pluto Libra (2nd house)
I really feel this, recently:
"Sun square Pluto can remain deceptively self-controlled for long periods of time, and sometimes it can be very difficult to really get know them, and even knowing them intimately doesn't always give complete access as there are doors that will always remain hidden. In fact, these individuals are viewed as extremely complex and difficult to analyse, and they have a fear of not being fully in control. According to astrologer Sue Tompkins these types take great pains to hide themselves."
And I'm making an effort to try to change because people keep telling me I'm too closed but it's really hard and scary.
I really feel this, recently:
"Sun square Pluto can remain deceptively self-controlled for long periods of time, and sometimes it can be very difficult to really get know them, and even knowing them intimately doesn't always give complete access as there are doors that will always remain hidden. In fact, these individuals are viewed as extremely complex and difficult to analyse, and they have a fear of not being fully in control. According to astrologer Sue Tompkins these types take great pains to hide themselves."
And I'm making an effort to try to change because people keep telling me I'm too closed but it's really hard and scary.
pluto shouldnt be scary. its not meant to be, imo
Posted by DMV
pluto shouldnt be scary. its not meant to be, imo
I don't find Pluto scarey... it has saved my life a number of times. I just find it the most uncomfortable to integrate.
I actually have 3 T-Squares involving Pluto
T-Square from Sun: 2Can37'46" to Moo: 8Ari31'17" and Plu: 1Lib42'57"
T-Square from Sun: 2Can37'46" to Mar: 2Ari14'24" and Plu: 1Lib42'57"
Cradle from Moo: 8Ari31'17" to Jup: 11Aqu12'11" to Nep: 5Sag21'10" to
Grand Trine with Mer: 27Can40'56" and Mar: 2Ari14'24" and Nep: 5Sag21'10"
Cradle from Mer: 27Can40'56" to Plu: 1Lib42'57" to Nep: 5Sag21'10" to
T-Square from Sat: 25Gem16'32" to Mar: 2Ari14'24" and Plu: 1Lib42'57"
So... here's the event of today!
Three days ago, my mother invites me over for lunch (I see her about once every month or so.) My brother and niece will be there. My brother stopped talking to me 4 years ago because I said "Your wife can be manipulative."... when she was being very, very manipulative.
He blew up at me and ranted and raved. I never once raised my voice during that conversation. At the end, I asked if we could agree to disagree. He said no and cut me out of his life. Haven't talked to him since.
He text me last week out of the blue and asked to see my kids... because they are strangers to him.
So today, is the big meet. I show up for lunch about a 1/2 hour late. They are all already eating breakfast... and there is no food left for me and my kids. During the visit I go to the fridge to get a drink. My mother has fish and a whole chicken marinading in there.
Guess who the "black sheep" of the family is?
omg. I couldn't make this shit up if I tried...
Three days ago, my mother invites me over for lunch (I see her about once every month or so.) My brother and niece will be there. My brother stopped talking to me 4 years ago because I said "Your wife can be manipulative."... when she was being very, very manipulative.
He blew up at me and ranted and raved. I never once raised my voice during that conversation. At the end, I asked if we could agree to disagree. He said no and cut me out of his life. Haven't talked to him since.
He text me last week out of the blue and asked to see my kids... because they are strangers to him.
So today, is the big meet. I show up for lunch about a 1/2 hour late. They are all already eating breakfast... and there is no food left for me and my kids. During the visit I go to the fridge to get a drink. My mother has fish and a whole chicken marinading in there.
Guess who the "black sheep" of the family is?
omg. I couldn't make this shit up if I tried...
Posted by Jbest
Those are some really intense and hard aspects with Pluto that you have.
I have been in some situations where I have found myself in undesirable situations where I have felt powerless or situations that were out of control. I have Moon/Conjunct Pluto in the 8th house. It felt like these situations were perpetrated by outside forces as well. I would try to gain control again and start with gaining control in the areas of your life that you can change them.
8th house... second mention in this here thread so I did some research...
Makes sense that all these issues have been in my face for the last few weeks.
Transit... Sun/Mercury/Mars/Chiron... all in my 8th house. 😕 Thank god for the 9th... where I can get some healing and insight into it all.
I think it was/is about recognizing what is real and not using my Neptune Cradles to disillusion myself.
I'm feeling really good and yes, Astrology helps keep me sane 🙂
Thanks for the posts!
oh ya... and let's not forget the Aqua who was talking a bunch of shit behind my back. I asked her about the rumors I've been hearing and she pretended like she had no idea what I was talking about. Fair enough... I don't need the confrontation, I'll just fade out of your life.
But she texts and emails me all the time with "I miss you" almost every week.
Well... if I missed you I guess I'd be in contact, now wouldn't I
But she texts and emails me all the time with "I miss you" almost every week.
Well... if I missed you I guess I'd be in contact, now wouldn't I
I didn't get into detail Purr... there were other events and attempts to contact with all of these people. I had to call the police twice and am dealing with a lawyer in another case as we speak.
I was venting... and not looking to spread my business all over. Thanks, tho
I was venting... and not looking to spread my business all over. Thanks, tho
still venting/musing...
i guess stalking is too strong of a word, and perhaps my description of stalking doesn't match with others. maybe for me it's the fact that i don't see those kinds of things as "normal occurrences." i don't think it is normal to continue to try and have a relationship with someone who doesn't want to have a relationship with you. people may do stuff like that all the time but I find it weird and my reaction is to distance myself.
sometimes people don't like that response or reaction to their behavior so they want to latch on and make you tell them straight up to leave you alone. And when you do tell them... many times in words, writing and action... they may think that you have no right to disapprove of their behavior... because they see it as normal... so they want to continue the relationship. Because to have the relationship dissolve they would have to admit there was a problem/conflict.
Perhaps they feel if they refuse to accept the ending of the relationship... they can then refuse to look at why the relationship dissolved or never got off the ground in the first place.
i guess stalking is too strong of a word, and perhaps my description of stalking doesn't match with others. maybe for me it's the fact that i don't see those kinds of things as "normal occurrences." i don't think it is normal to continue to try and have a relationship with someone who doesn't want to have a relationship with you. people may do stuff like that all the time but I find it weird and my reaction is to distance myself.
sometimes people don't like that response or reaction to their behavior so they want to latch on and make you tell them straight up to leave you alone. And when you do tell them... many times in words, writing and action... they may think that you have no right to disapprove of their behavior... because they see it as normal... so they want to continue the relationship. Because to have the relationship dissolve they would have to admit there was a problem/conflict.
Perhaps they feel if they refuse to accept the ending of the relationship... they can then refuse to look at why the relationship dissolved or never got off the ground in the first place.
I have
sun(11th) square pluto(8th)
mars(8th) conjunct pluto
saturn(8th) conjunct pluto
moon(8th) conjunct pluto
pluto touches everything in my chart except mercury & I'm still learning about what it all means. I've had a hard life no doubt and every relationship I ever had turned to shit, but I'm thankful for everything because each time I got burned, new skin appeared.
sun(11th) square pluto(8th)
mars(8th) conjunct pluto
saturn(8th) conjunct pluto
moon(8th) conjunct pluto
pluto touches everything in my chart except mercury & I'm still learning about what it all means. I've had a hard life no doubt and every relationship I ever had turned to shit, but I'm thankful for everything because each time I got burned, new skin appeared.
Join the Conversation. Explore Yourself. Connect with Others.
Discover insights, swap stories, and find people. dxpnet is where experiences turn into understanding.
Create Your Free Account →Related Topics
By observing other mars signs how did they react to anger? And how do u react when u r angry or p**s off? Also do anyon
Are you usually attracted to men and women of your opposite Sign? Aries Libra Taurus Sc
I'm always jealous of people with very little water in their chart. Because even as a Libra, my chart is overflowing
I only have Venus, Pluto and Eros in Scorpio. Yet according to astro.com, it's my most prominent sign, at 17.9%....!!
Is scorpio sting that serious or hype? I am curious of other people stories or opinions on the scorp sting? First of
This is some work-related research: A question for people who get professional massages: Can you tell me your sun
i have leo rising and i was wondering why i don't feel/see it much in myself?? i know i am probaby, might?, going to ans
So I found this website, somewhere on these forums and I quite enjoyed reading the limited version of the Chinese Zodiac
Why am I unable to let go of things - be it past relationships, flings, old friends, people, places, etc? I'm so obses
you can really go fuck yourself...that is all!
How important of an impact is your Ascendent on yourself? Does it really play a role? Many sites Ive come across to ge
I noticed a trend in the types of people I think have a really good sense of humor. These people tend to have hard Moon/
I think it's pretty shitty to allude all over the boards to your chat room and then when questioned about it to complete
Now, don't get offended, these are cutely biting! lol! http://www.mooncatsastrology.com/fun/funnysigns.htm Aries
I know Kim ia a Libra but what are the other creatures on the show ? I'm guessing Khloe is an Aries or anoter fire sign
No particular order from best to least. In my opinion. Leos - They always have flare. Nice and usually trendy. I like
OK not so much for Piscies but I can't help but notice alot of Scorp and Cancer friends treating FB like a confessional
Yes, I'm bored! lol! http://citysearchblog.yellowpages.co.za/citysearchblog/post/247125 Aries Ever mindful of
Mars opposition Pluto... 1st house
Moon opposition Pluto... 1st (6 degrees,tho)
Sun square Pluto... 4th
Ascendent Quincunx Pluto
I sometimes feel like the weight of these aspects are closing in on me because they seem to come from outside sources... and I have no control over them. It's like I have to just sit and take it.
I found this conversation on astro.com and these parts really rang true for me:
Clare: A useful image for Moon-Pluto is the witch, which can, of course, be both positive, in the form of the wise woman, or negative, in which case you may feel that women want to sabotage you or wipe you out altogether.
Tricia: Yes.
Clare: And that can lead to a powerful conviction that you are not allowed to be who you really are. And so, like Hades himself, you have to wear a cloak of invisibility and keep your true identity hidden.
Tricia: If I try and be sweet and nice, then they think I am a wimp and walk all over me. But if I try to be strong, then they think I am a powerful, dominating bitch. Either way, I can't win. I don't seem to be able to find that balance. Although I am quite well balanced in myself, I always find that other people try to control me. I feel really strong within, and men always say they like strong women.
Clare: There is a tremendous depth to Pluto, and Plutonic people are going to go deeper on an emotional level, and seem to have to spend periods of their lives in the underworld. But the underworld is a place of immense wealth, and the purpose of being there is to connect to the life force itself and to the wisdom which comes from that.