In love and going nuts

I'm in love with a Scorpio man and going insane with it, he feels schizo at times, I can sense there are crazy emotions in there somewhere but he is so controlled and chilled. I've never known anyone like that, I've somehow managed to live my life without dating or even befriending a Scorpio 😄 We're quite different but there's a strange connection I've never had with anyone, it truly is bizarre.
I'm a Pisces (Libra rising) and so far the longest relationships I've had were with a Sagi (8 years) and Aries (4 years). Neither worked for me well. Aries was only after what he wanted, he had very little empathy, he was emotionally abusive and generally quite a nasty experience (but I do have a 10-year old Aries girl to show for the agony 😄). The Sagi had two emotions - anger and apathy. I always felt like I do nothing but bend with them but in the end, I get nothing for it.
Now this Scorpio is completely different, he rides out my mood swings (which do happen in the beginning since I'm not sure of things yet and I'm scared), does little things nobody has ever done for me before and definitely not irrelevant that I had lost faith that I could ever have a sexual experience that is actually GOOD but man, he just blows my mind 😄
We've been having a pretty intense relationship-sort-of-thing for a few months now. We have both been burned pretty badly and cautious. The thing that gets me is that I'm now willing to admit to myself that I've fallen for him badly, head over heels. But he is still reserved. He said at one point (I didn't ask anything, he just talked) that while I've gotten under his skin, he doesn't think he could ever have emotions like I do. Which scares the crap out of me 😢
I don't know. I know it doesn't make a lot of sense. I feel silly, I'm an adult woman and I've lost it like a teenager.
Will he really always be this cautious and slightly at a distance? 😢

Well I keep hoping that's the case. I'm a fish, I don't need a life jacket, I don't drown 😄 But yeah, I can't swim in ice you know.

Mm it's strange. But it keeps me from being truly free too. I want to let go, I want to say, act and think like I feel but I feel I have to have a filter and restrain myself because he does. I can't just let go and FEEL. I don't know if it makes sense. I want to love him so bad but he keeps me from it. I guess Pisces don't make sense either 😄

I'm afraid that I'll scare him away if I unleash my emotional flood on him :S

Posted by allielee
Well I keep hoping that's the case. I'm a fish, I don't need a life jacket, I don't drown 😄 But yeah, I can't swim in ice you know.

That's when the sport of ice fishing comes in. 😉

You know the strange thing is that for the first time in my life I really don't dwell on where it's going. I don't spend time daydreaming about our grandchildren 😄 Which is what I usually do, it's like a compulsion for me. This time my biggest problem is that I want to feel and I'm afraid to do it 😛 The furthest plans we have is that he keeps saying he wants to continue renovating his apartment when the spring comes (so the windows can be open, paint fumes etc) and that he'd like me to help pick colors for the walls and things like that. So there is spring in the future 😄

It's such a crazy crazy feeling. I'm a nutty emotional fish, swimming against the tide and then going with the flow, just to swim back up again, even if the attempt kills me. My intuition tells me he could match my emotions and this could be crazy intense but my reason says that since he said he won't ever feel as intensely as I do because he is very rational, that maybe I get the wrong feeling about this. For a water creature I yearn for fire and inferno and volcanos a lot 😄

Well my Scorpio has told me that under his ice there's a volcano. It's so very tempting! 😄 But.. he sounds so contradicting. That on one hand, promises of FIRE! But on the other hand, "oh I'm so rational". What?

Thank you all! Really. It's very helpful! 🙂

I'm rational myself when it comes to life in general but in the love department I want me some fire and passion and obsession and glorious intensity 😄
We haven't seen each other since Tuesday, it's the longest we've been apart so far. He's been sick and now he's out of town for family stuff. I can't wait for tomorrow night, we'll meet then. And I hope there's yet another crack in the ice tomorrow 😛 Absence makes the heart grow fonder and all that jazz I suppose.

Charts, you say? 😄 If this tells you anything at all, here you go 😄

Him:
Rising Sign - 15 Degrees Sagittarius
Sun - 13 Degrees Scorpio
Moon - 26 Degrees Capricorn
Mercury - 04 Degrees Sagittarius
Venus - 16 Degrees Scorpio
Mars is in 03 Degrees Sagittarius
Jupiter - 08 Degrees Leo
Saturn - 11 Degrees Virgo
Uranus - 16 Degrees Scorpio
Neptune - 16 Degrees Sagittarius
Pluto - 17 Degrees Libra
N. Node - 25 Degrees Virgo

Me:
Rising Sign - 25 Degrees Libra
Sun - 28 Degrees Pisces
Moon - 28 Degrees Aquarius
Mercury - 16 Degrees Aries
Venus - 21 Degrees Aries
Mars - 02 Degrees Taurus
Jupiter - 08 Degrees Aquarius
Saturn - 28 Degrees Scorpio
Uranus - 17 Degrees Sagittarius
Neptune - 03 Degrees Capricorn
Pluto - 04 Degrees Scorpio
N. Node - 19 Degrees Taurus

I read the explained version about me and it was surprisingly accurate. He read his and said it's pretty spot on and asked me if I'm bolting for the door already 😄 Hell no!
Aaargh how I miss him 😢

Haha yeah we did read them together, he's quite into astrology strangely enough 😄

Well I hope we match yes. It feels like it. I've always felt a little off with people, like I'm on a different wavelength or something. With him, that's not the case. But the darn ice...

Fickle minded.

Sure sure.

Anyway we were supposed to meet yesterday as I mentioned earlier. In the evening he called and said he has to go visit his friends instead. I tried hard to keep positive and be all okay, sure, have fun. It hurt like hell though. I haven't seen him for almost a week and then this. Today he has a party to go to. He is saying he will visit tomorrow but I'll believe it when I see it.

I've been thinking about this way too much and I talked to the most rational friend I could think of for advice. He listened, asked a few questions and said that he recommends I talk to my Scorp and if it's still vague at the end of the discussion, I should just walk away. Which is kind of where my thoughts were heading. I mean... it won't work if I'm crazy in love all by myself and he doesn't even bother to find time to meet me 😢

I don't know, it scares me how intense my feelings are for him and how cold he seems to be. It hurts.

Oh... I see.

Well the plans were firm. Since he keeps raving about how he needs space and freedom to go about his business, I figured the exact opposite is true, that I shouldn't react in a negative way. I've never tried to deceive him or anything and I didn't intend to cling to this since I told him it was fine. Then I figured that it has to be. If that makes sense. I had no intention of bringing it up again or holding it against him since I myself told him it was fine.

I find it odd how before he had all the time in the world for me and now while he talks way sweeter then before and has the cutest nicknames for me, he suddenly has so much else to do. I don't do that well. I spent 8 years in a relationship where I wasn't even the second choice but third. And I've verbalized from the very beginning that I will never be anything else but top priority. It actually started on the wrong foot back then since before we got physical but were pretty intense already, I accidentally found out he was testing waters with another girl as well. I told him then that it was nice to meet you, bye. It took a whole lot of trouble on his part to regain his position with me and he has repeatedly said that I will never be second to him. And yet he acts like I am. I don't like these games. Why hurt me?

Hi Allie..

I'm intrigued with the depth of your emotions, we Aquas are not very good at that kind of expression.

Your story is quite adorable and I noticed how upset you got at him for not coming through on the date. I have to agree with what someone else on the thread pointed out. Never say it's okay if it's not okay. Why? Because you'll walk away with it and build up negative energy and this can cause issues within the relationship dynamic. Whilst the issue is over you're still simmering deep down inside with resentment so next time be more transparent, say how you feel with tact, as in I'm deeply hurt that you're putting your friends first, I was looking forward to seeing you all week, something to that effect.

Also the intensity of the emotions may just be way too much for him so he's taking a breather to retain a significant amount of control over himself. In other words don't assume his breaking the date has anything to do with you being second which keeps things positive.

I noticed you mentioned he was dating someone else whilst getting to know you. Are you concerned he could be dating this woman or dating someone else?

Hi, Tiki!

I am a bit insane in the emotions department, I know. I do try my very darnedest to keep myself from extremes but I do think I fail a lot. I know I overanalyze my own thoughts and behaviors because I'm so afraid of being "wrong" with my emotions that eventually it's all one big mess that I can't make heads or tails of.
I think about the date I sort of felt like I don't have the right to be upset about it. I mean that I was afraid I'm overreacting to it and that it's only normal that he wants to spend time with his friends and so on. But I can't shake the hurt. I will be more upfront about my feelings next time.

I don't know what's up exactly. Today we spoke briefly online and he said he has an event tonight, he *might* be free tomorrow, event on Wednesday, another on Thursday. I mean an active social life is all nice and dandy but so far he has never been so busy, he has always wanted to see me often. I can't shake the feeling that he is trying to avoid me. And at the same time he keeps calling me with cute names, calls me occasionally and texts. Talk about mixed messages!

He wasn't exactly dating another woman. He wasn't dating me either. We had had these long intense conversations, getting to know each other and it got pretty emotional in places. The other girl he met online, they chatted and planned a date. Thing is, I know that girl and it came out totally randomly. It wasn't anything serious because we weren't committed or anything but I wasn't willing to settle with being one of the two choices. So I nicely backed out of the whole thing, I totally meant it, I didn't see a chance for us in there, for me this is one of the very few absolute dealbreakers. To my immense surprise he didn't just settle with it. He didn't let go. So I caved. He did get the point though. That I refuse to be anything less then top priority this time around. I deserve better I think. But yet now he is doing the same again, putting me last.

I don't want to force anything on him. I don't dream of forcing him into feeling anything. But I do want honesty, I want to know where I stand and what to expect so I can make an informed decision about this as well. I don't like this being on hold feeling at all, it hurts.
If we do meet tomorrow, I hope I do get something to help me along 😢

Allie trust yourself, you seem to be very competent emotionally, mentally etc. Even if you feel your emotions are all over the place, trust yourself, trust that no matter how you feel you're going to take good care of yourself and not leave yourself to hang out to dry.

My point being if you trust yourself you won't feel so emotionally messy but I do get that too much feeling can overwhelm and maybe (I'm just speculating here) he's a bit overwhelmed too, feelings are contagious and if we're feeling intense around a person that can feel really heavy on a man so he's taking some time to do his own life which can inevitably benefit the both of you because he'll be happy and content instead of overwhelmed.

Just maybe if you see his behavior in a less negative way things can only move in a positive direction. Don't allow your negative feelings to destroy this good thing you have going on with him and the easiest way to do that is to not make his behavior about you. His behavior really could be his way of taking care of his own life outside of the relationship he has with you.

Has he discussed his intentions for you or you both casually dating? The reason for me asking this is because if you haven't stamped a label on the relationship then truly he's not doing anything to hurt you, he's taking a break and this could appear that he's making you last or second but if he's consistently reaching out to communicate with you then I see that as his way of reassuring you that everything is okay between the both of you and also his way of attempting to not make you feel second so he's extending himself to include you in his life as he's doing his own thing, which makes sense to me.

Please try not to create a cycle of FEELING BAD when he's not physically with you, behaving this way can surely make you feel miserable and the goal (IMO) should be focusing on your happiness when things aren't going exactly as planned which means you have to get busy as well so you won't feel so hurt when he needs some time to himself.

"I don't want to force anything on him. I don't dream of forcing him into feeling anything. But I do want honesty, I want to know where I stand and what to expect so I can make an informed decision about this as well. I don't like this being on hold feeling at all, it hurts. "

Yet you've already decide you love him without affirmation that he's in love with you too and this can only drive you bananas and cause undue pressure on him. Trust when I say he feel and sense your need and desire for him to affirm his feelings for you but this can cause so much unrest for the both of you because you feel anxious and out of control and limited and he feels all that and then some.

He most likely hasn't decided how he feels about you yet and here you are in love and this can only create too much intensity coming at him which pushes him away naturally. This isn't him pulling away because he doesn't like you or not want to spend time with you nor is he changing his mind but he need to breathe without all that emotion hitting him all at once.

No one can make you fall out of love but you definitely have to pull the reigns on your emotions, how you do that is up to you but you must do it if things are going to progress into the future.

Yea, I see your point. I know from past experiences, that I'm actually independent and love to have some space and my own life which is not completely separate but you know, my own friends, my hobbies, things like that. So it's not like I'm the creepy clingy person 😄

I think the trouble in this case stems from the fact that I have no idea what we are or what he is feeling and the insecurity and mixed messages are scaring the crap out of me. I haven't been out of a relationship for long, I never intended to get back to dating so fast. I've been emotionally dead for about three or four years, I was in a completely dysfunctional and dead relationship where we pretty much just existed side by side in complete hopelessness and apathy. So when I got out of it, it was such a relief it's just incredible. And I fully intended to be single and enjoy life without the emotional drama.
And along comes the Scorp, sneaking up on me completely unexpected. I really didn't see this one coming. Trouble is that while I'm completely over my ex, no question about it, I haven't quite processed the entire 8 years yet and figured out exactly what my part was in it. I do have a very good picture of what went wrong but I haven't quite figured out how to avoid the same mistakes in the future. So I'm panicking because I'm not ready in that sense, I'm so scared to do something wrong, to set a bad precedent. I come with baggage. He does too and he says he is extremely slow because of it (among other things). It took a really long time for him to even kiss me so I guess from that point of view, it's logical that the emotions don't follow fast.

I'm the kind who also gives 100% , I tend to get stuck in relationships for a long time, ride out all the bad and swallow things I don't like etc. I don't want to discover I'm in a crappy place again and spend years making myself AND someone else miserable. So that's where my fears come from. I want at least some security, to know that while we haven't really stapled things down yet, I can be sure of the footing, that there won't be a magic trick with a disappearing carpet in the near future.

And the version where he doesn't have feelings for me would really badly suck but I'd much prefer to know it now and avoid the long agony of waiting and hoping.

"I think the trouble in this case stems from the fact that I have no idea what we are or what he is feeling and the insecurity and mixed messages are scaring the crap out of me."

Oh I see. This is a completely reasonable way of feeling given that there is no real direction on where the relationship is going.

"Trouble is that while I'm completely over my ex, no question about it, I haven't quite processed the entire 8 years yet and figured out exactly what my part was in it. I do have a very good picture of what went wrong but I haven't quite figured out how to avoid the same mistakes in the future. So I'm panicking because I'm not ready in that sense, I'm so scared to do something wrong, to set a bad precedent."

This is only a suggestion okay. Since you haven't quite processed the old relationship why not take the time your Scorp is doing his own thing to begin processing the 8 years. This certainly will keep you preoccupied on yourself/your own issues rather than focusing so much on a relationship that has no real intent (yet). His time away is your opportunity to figure it out and avoid the same mistakes but you can't do that if you're focused on the Scorps behavior.

What you're doing wrong (and this observation is garnered from what you've revealed) is you're making him more important than you and typically this is when a man moves away from the woman to reset a positive pattern with her.

Being scared reeks of having zero confidence in yourself and this feeling ooozes out onto a man and naturally he shifts away from that, his goal is to feel good around you, anything that doesn't feel good will repel him away from you. So try finding some inner balance, tell yourself no matter what happens you'll be okay, you can handle the hard stuff, this changes your vibe into being a confident, self assured woman--which is very attractive energy--draw him right back in.

"'m the kind who also gives 100% ,"

Not with a man that's not your husband, this can create big issues and push a man away because he's not going to give a woman that he has no title with 100% and you doing that creates an imbalance between the 2 of you.

"I tend to get stuck in relationships for a long time, ride out all the bad and swallow things I don't like etc. I don't want to discover I'm in a crappy place again and spend years making myself AND someone else miserable. So that's where my fears come from."

Don't swallow anything you don't like anymore...speak up, you're not in a crappy place and you're self aware which is enough to get you through the hard stuff, of course some old issues from your past have to be reconciled but you can still have something good with a man b/c your happiness comes first.

Since you're not in a real relationship with him yet, use the time to sort some of the old baggage out and at the same time you can still go slow with him which gives you more time to purge out that old icky mess from your past, you can only be a better person for it which can only improve and strengthen the bond with your Scorp.

" I want at least some security, to know that while we haven't really stapled things down yet, I can be sure of the footing, that there won't be a magic trick with a disappearing carpet in the near future. "

There is no real reassurance with love. You're either in or you're out. If you need reassurance then you either have walk in with a set standard before getting involved or not date until you can trust YOURSELF. You're looking for reassurance from a man you most likely won't get it in the form you need it. It's his actions that can only reassure you, words hold little weight.

If you need a title to feel assured or if you need him to verbally tell you where you stand then speak up, yes you risk him leaving but really he was going to leave anyway, it would be sooner rather than later.

"And the version where he doesn't have feelings for me would really badly suck but I'd much prefer to know it now and avoid the long agony of waiting and hoping."

He has feelings for you, he's not ready to verbalize those feelings but look at his actions more, you'll notice how he feels through how he behaves.

You're past is seeping in thus you're feeling insecure and need reassurance, that's understandable but maybe if you just tell yourself that over and over again and remind yourself that everything is fine and if it doesn't feel fine it's b/c my past is seeping in and then go help ground yourself by doing something productive other than thinking about it constantly it'll help BOTH OF YOU become closer.

I've talked way too much LOL sorry but I hope you get something from it.

Posted by allielee
We have both been burned pretty badly and cautious. The thing that gets me is that I'm now willing to admit to myself that I've fallen for him badly, head over heels. But he is still reserved. He said at one point (I didn't ask anything, he just talked) that while I've gotten under his skin, he doesn't think he could ever have emotions like I do.

Translation: "I have feelings for you, but I am gonna rein them in like a motha'"

It's one thing to say I have feelings for you, but getting "under his skin"--different thing entirely IMO.

Posted by allielee
Mm it's strange. But it keeps me from being truly free too. I want to let go, I want to say, act and think like I feel but I feel I have to have a filter and restrain myself because he does. I can't just let go and FEEL. I don't know if it makes sense. I want to love him so bad but he keeps me from it . I guess Pisces don't make sense either 😄

How does one keep you from loving them? Sounds like you mean, "I will only put myself out there if he does".

And you/that do/does make sense.

Posted by IntriguedScorp
Oh no that makes perfect sense. Just be yourself==freedom and all. Scorpio can sense BS at 100 paces. So if you are holding in he will know it. Just a thought. 🙂

He might be feeling the same way--you never know.

While I already know the answer to this, I am wondering what do you think prevents Scorps from being the first one to step to the plate? I'm not referring to making advances, or approaching someone they are interested in (if they even do that). I am referring to our inability to come clean with the emotional stuff.

Yeah, we can smell BS and can often tell when someone is holding back. We expect the other person to let go, yet we can't/won't until they do it first. I think in some ways we are walking contradiction. We're no afraid of a challenge, charging straight into things that would make other people run for the hills, but we can't take a chance and put out feelings out there.

Just a thought. In one of those moods.....

*our

Posted by everevolvingepithet
The typo kinda makes sense there given the context.

Right! Not surprised you caught that.

Posted by everevolvingepithet
It's too late in the evening for me to fashion that into something fancier but that makes sense, right?

Depends on what you were addressing. My question or the OP?

Posted by Stinger Baby
"While I already know the answer to this, I am wondering what do you think prevents Scorps from being the first one to step to the plate?

It isnt a factor of fear. It has everything to do with fairness. We have a lot of good/love to offer, but we know we cant just unleash this fully on just ANYONE. This person has to be ideal. An ideal mate for scorp is someone that is going to give fully and not hold back. This goes hand in hand with trust and honesty. How can we trust a person if we know they are purposely keeping us in the dark about anything? if you hold back your good from me, what makes me think you wont hold back when problems arise? Leaving me in the dark and in a state of confusion after i wasted energy and time loving you FULLY is just not going to do.

Therefore, if I sense you're not ready to love me how I deep down inside want to love you, I'm not going to even attempt to give my all. We mirror who we're with.

Stinger, that sounds like fear to me. I hear what you're saying though. You're right, we do have a lot to offer. I think we can be a little stuck on the whole "show me yours before I show you mine" mindset though. Even the whole idea of mirroring, (which is an excuse I think both Cancers and Scorps tell themselves) is based on the actions of other, not our willingness to make the first move.

I get not wanting to put forth a lot of energy into someone who is less than deserving of that devotion, however how do you really know that they are not worthy of it? Even these test we give people, do their responses truly reflect their ability to stand and deliver when push comes to shove? To be loyal, faithful when it really matters? If so, then no Scorp should be in a bad relationship given the massive test we put people through to prove they are "worthy".

The other week I confessed I had feelings for a guy I've liked for a while now. The details are boring, but I basically put on my big girl pants and just put it out there. I was freaking out (inside of course) about his response. He confessed he felt the same way for a very long time.

cont...
My response of course was WTH, why didn't you say anything. In his very charming way he says "Well, why didn't you?". What do you say to that? Well, I didn't know if you were worth me putting my feelings out there? If you were worthy of all the time, energy, devotion I know I could give. How insulting. He could easily say the same thing.

Again, I get what you're saying. I do and have done it. I was just sharing my thoughts "out loud".

this is an awesome thread

Posted by Stinger Baby
i give you all my sugar, but you give me rations and teaspoon feedings. hell no.

LOL! I read sugar in a very different way. Okay, points noted.

Posted by Stinger Baby
'WTH, why didn't you say anything?' In his very charming way he says "Well, why didn't you?". What do you say to that?

I'm a different woman. When I see something I like, I have to keep it g. I am more aggressive, so usually I have no problem going up to anyone and saying what's on my mind. I wont hold back. If I like you, I will say so and be affectionate so there is no question where I'm coming from. As a child, I learned closed mouths dont get fed, so I'm not one to let opportunity pass.

But if I was to play it like how you did, to answer his question I'd be honest. 'I had to get up the courage to come talk to you." Simple as that.

Agreed. However, in my post I wasn't referring to making advances and making your intentions known--perhaps my example was a bad one. I am referring to the point where you feel those intense feelings about the other person. From what I have seen and experienced (if I understand your post correctly), most Scorps are not willing to put it all out there first . They wait, test the waters with various activities before just coming clean with what they feel.

Posted by Stinger Baby


Surely, when you two are perfect strangers and everything is new, you dont come out giving up all of yourself, nor expecting them to. You have yet to learn about this person, vice versa. I'm talking about after the trail dating and the decision to be together is final; strangers no more. What you guys are looking for from one another should be established and understood. If you guys are serious about one another truly, then I dont see the reason for hesitation on ANY side. It's like, 'You chose to be with me and love me, and vice versa, so what is the problem? '

click to expand

Again, agreed. Once I am established with someone, there will be no doubt what I am feeling for you. If there is any doubt, it's probably because I don't have the feelings you're looking for. Getting there was the major focus of my question.

Posted by Stinger Baby
LOL . you had a gutter moment Phoenix lolol

I've had quite a few lately. I think--scratch that I know it's this man.

This is good!

Stinger you seem as if you keep it very real. What would you say to Allie if you were in her shoes regarding him breaking the date?

Would you be up front with your disappointment with the Scorp male or would you drop him completely or mirror him at some other time when he's expecting you to show up?

Also being there is sheer reluctance does that mean you wouldn't allow yourself to fall in love first? And if so how would you avoid doing that?

I ask in all sincerity...

Wow. So much food for thought here!

You know it's really the same thing with him - he doesn't want to give up anything before I do. I usually tend to do the same. But the difference is that I'm not so set on it. I mean if need be, I will step in first. But then I expect him to follow. Which he sort of does and sort of doesn't. I get the past, I get the need to be sure but sometimes it all feels like one big excuse. Usually men are simpler than that, they either want you or they don't. But this time it's a huge contradiction.

We ended up meeting yesterday, late evening as usual (we've developed a habit of meeting at night, when my kid goes to bed, we have two hours to ourselves, he lives nearby), he wanted to talk since he felt something was up with me. Well I pushed emotions to the back seat and tried to have a calm and rational conversation. Face to face discussions on the topic of emotions are very very hard for me, I feel super vulnerable and I can't quite find the words.

So on the topic of what we are and where he is, I'm still not smarter. He said he isn't 20 anymore and doesn't want to jump in without being sure. That he looks for the long haul and that I should be reassured that he even started anything with me because he doesn't even do that. And so he waits with the falling in love. It sounds way too reasonable for me to understand completely. I mean intellectually I do understand but I don't get how this can work in reality? I mean how can one decide when it's okay to fall in love? And what is it before that then? I don't know, it's a strange concept. I get the necessity of caution and reason, I do. But it sounded like he approaches this with pure reason and once reason deems fit, emotions will follow. What? How?

And about Sunday nights cancelled date, I told him I find it's a matter of common courtesy really, even if we were just friends, it would upset me. He said he knew when he was doing it that it's not the right thing to do but that I have to understand him that his friends are very important to him and it doesn't mean I'm priority number twelve. Then thought a little and said that if I did the same to him, he doesn't deny, he'd be upset. And proceeded to tell me how his upbringing didn't involve letting people know where you were or what you were doing and since he's been alone for so long, it's a skill he has to re-learn because it doesn't come naturally to him and it takes time and failures.
Continued...

I think it sort of sounds like the sad childhood thing. That it really does explain things sometimes but it's not an excuse to not improve. I think it's logical and all but at the same time, something in it made me cautious, that maybe this will always be the excuse for when he doesn't feel like counting with me? I don't know. I guess only time can tell that.

He also verbalized his own fears and dislikes. That he worries that I haven't been alone for long, that maybe I'm jumping in too fast, that yes, I did tell him that the relationship was over for a long time before it actually ended but how is he to know that and even if it's true, why didn't I leave? And that I have a kid and he doesn't want to become close to her just to disappear when it doesn't work out and thus hurt my daughter. And that I think too much and remind him of one of his exes who overthought things on a regular basis and he could talk until he was out of breath but it never changed anything. And that it makes him sad that I compare him with my ex in the sense that I think he doesn't think of me as top priority which is a completely foreign problem to him. And at work he doesn't want to socialize with me publicly because he wants to protect me and he dislikes the banter that's already going on about me (there are 10 men per 1 woman here and their department is all men and I'm the only woman regularly in the picture so bantering is a fact of life 😄)

In essence we didn't actually solve anything, it was more like putting our cards on the table. And now we wait and see I suppose. I'm not sure what to make of all this, I'm trying to take it all on face value and not read into it much. But I can't seem to escape the feeling that it's all so weird.

On the upside, once done talking we did cuddle a bit and he was more affectionate then usual. I mean he has always been passionate but there's a difference between passion and affection, one runs on desire, the other on emotions. So I guess that's a good thing.

Today I feel squeezed dry. I know that I have to re-evaluate things and with your help I do see new angles to it. It's so easy to get stuck in your own head and not see the big picture. Which is why I give you guys such a detailed description of yesterday 😄

Men are not women, most men don't have the necessity to love as a priority, as long as they have something as an alternative that isn't nagging and talking back, that can be priority #1--work--friends etc.

Some men truly are self sufficient when it comes to finding and immersing themselves into something they have prioritized as a NEED. Men (not all of them) do not thrive and live on love like some women do. Plus they don't have a clock that's ticking louder as a woman gets older, they can literally decide to experience love, children at the age of 45/50 even 60 so the idea of having to rush or move fast is not a concept for a man to have to adhere to.

They can literally fall in love much later in life and procreate whereas it's not that easy for most women to do that which is why everything feels so urgent, even if we've had kids our bodies still have that clock ticking as if having a man and all the things that come with is of urgency. Ugh hormones! They really can work against us when it comes to taking our time with relationships.

I believe it's just a matter of big differences in regards to experiencing being in love, for him it's of no urgency and for you well you've already beat him there.
So to capsize it all...He's said:

1. That he looks for the long haul and that I should be reassured that he even started anything with me because he doesn't even do that.

Giving you hope that he's testing you out because he feel you are potential "long haul" material. Are you okay with that?

2. he waits with the falling in love

Too late, you've already fallen, in love all by yourself ):

3. He said he knew when he was doing it that it's not the right thing to do but that I have to understand him that his friends are very important to him and it doesn't mean I'm priority number twelve.

Basically his friends come first. You are not priority #12 but you certainly are not priority #1. Thus far he's broken a date with you to be with priority #1 (friends) and thus you are priority #2 (Maybe?). I believe he said he would not do that to you. Guess you better remind him of that at some point. A suggestion would be reprioritizing him in your life as well to prevent feeling left behind when priority #1 comes calling.

4. And proceeded to tell me how his upbringing didn't involve letting people know where you were or what you were doing and since he's been alone for so long, it's a skill he has to re-learn because it doesn't come naturally to him and it takes time and failures.

That's an excuse because if he respect you and your time he'll call. Basically He's saying to you don't expect him to remember you all the time, expect days where he's not going to call.

"I think it sort of sounds like the sad childhood thing. That it really does explain things sometimes but it's not an excuse to not improve. I think it's logical and all but at the same time, something in it made me cautious, that maybe this will always be the excuse for when he doesn't feel like counting with me? I don't know. I guess only time can tell that."

Yep...

5. He also verbalized his own fears and dislikes. That he worries that I haven't been alone for long, that maybe I'm jumping in too fast, that yes, I did tell him that the relationship was over for a long time before it actually ended but how is he to know that and even if it's true, why didn't I leave? And that I have a kid and he doesn't want to become close to her just to disappear when it doesn't work out and thus hurt my daughter.

More excuses. This guy is sounding more and more like a guy with commitment fears. So many excuses in front of him how could he ever allow himself to love someone. He's already looking for a way out before he's even got in.

6. And that I think too much and remind him of one of his exes who overthought things on a regular basis and he could talk until he was out of breath but it never changed anything. And that it makes him sad that I compare him with my ex in the sense that I think he doesn't think of me as top priority which is a completely foreign problem to him."

Now he's comparing you to EXES. That's not good. One strike against you. He feel he has to talk and talk until he's out of breath and why on earth would he go back into that? He's not doing that again. He thinks of you as a priority but not just top priority. You should ask him how he's prioritizing you. Are you even in the top 5 or 10?

All very valid points.

1. Giving you hope that he's testing you out because he feel you are potential "long haul" material. Are you okay with that?

I don't like the approach of it. I mean all kinds of dating is in essence testing each other. However it usually doesn't taste like an experiment of some sort. This sort of does at times. I don't mind being tested as a potential, I do the same to him in a way. But it's the way he does it...

2. Too late, you've already fallen, in love all by yourself ):

Yep and not the happiest about it really. I'm stubborn and proud and I don't like feeling humiliated and this feels like it quite often. I'm not saying he humiliates me. I'm saying I feel humiliated by the whole ordeal.

3. Basically his friends come first. You are not priority #12 but you certainly are not priority #1. Thus far he's broken a date with you to be with priority #1 (friends) and thus you are priority #2 (Maybe?). I believe he said he would not do that to you. Guess you better remind him of that at some point. A suggestion would be reprioritizing him in your life as well to prevent feeling left behind when priority #1 comes calling.

Yes and therein lies the problem. I'm not clingy or anything of the sort but the way my mind works is that people I sleep with are much much much closer to me in many aspects then my friends. While my friends are for life, my current mate is a lot closer to me since I'm emotionally more attached and vulnerable. I don't disappear for my friends or devote my whole life to my partner but he is always priority number one. If I have to push him lower down, it makes me wonder what's the point then. Because for me it basically sounds like friends with benefits really. And I don't do that. So I guess in that sense we're a really poor fit.

Continued...

Actually you don't have to ask him where he's prioritized you, clearly you are not priority #1 yet and that's all that should matter to you since you've voiced to him that you expect to be #1. Wasn't that why he dumped the other woman and now he's shoved his friends in front of you, another commitmentphobic move. Not looking good Allie.

7. And at work he doesn't want to socialize with me publicly because he wants to protect me and he dislikes the banter that's already going on about me (there are 10 men per 1 woman here and their department is all men and I'm the only woman regularly in the picture so bantering is a fact of life )

No Allie, he's protecting himself, not you. He is part of the banter, you can believe that.

"In essence we didn't actually solve anything, it was more like putting our cards on the table. And now we wait and see I suppose. I'm not sure what to make of all this, I'm trying to take it all on face value and not read into it much. But I can't seem to escape the feeling that it's all so weird."

It's weird because he's unwilling to expose his feelings (understandable to some extent) and has too many excuses why he can't or won't but he still want access to you, your body, your time. You have to KNOW what you want and if what you want is a relationship then why stick around for excuses. I'm sure there are other men that would love to cater to you, give to you freely. It's more about what you want, since you're already in love and understand he's not capable of giving you what you want right now. What are you prepared to do to ensure you're happy despite it all.

Do you wait? If you're going to wait then how long are you willing to wait and still be okay with it? Do you decide he can't have you all to himself and open your options up to see if there is a better man out there? You have to decide that for yourself because this is your life and he can only do what you allow him to do.

He's holding ALL of the cards! You have no options other than him. You're in love alone. You have zero bargaining power as to how it's going to be if he continues to court you b/c there is fear you'll lose him. You're in a weak position and unless something changes as in you speaking up about what you want and asking him what his intentions are. I mean if he wants to just kick it well do you want to get kicked or do you want to be his girlfriend with the possibility of marriage (if) marriage is what you want.

4. That's an excuse because if he respect you and your time he'll call. Basically He's saying to you don't expect him to remember you all the time, expect days where he's not going to call.

Yes. I got the same impression from it. But while it's okay to not call me all the time, I don't need that anyway, I do need the respect. I do not like to be put on hold, waiting for something. If you're going to do your own thing for a while, let me know and I'm fine with it. The going off randomly while I'm waiting is what gets to me.

5. More excuses. This guy is sounding more and more like a guy with commitment fears. So many excuses in front of him how could he ever allow himself to love someone. He's already looking for a way out before he's even got in.

Exactly. And that is what makes me panic really. I can sense that he is looking for an out and yet he is holding on to me. It's like.. pushing and pulling at the same time and it's so bloody confusing and hurtful.

6. Now he's comparing you to EXES. That's not good. One strike against you. He feel he has to talk and talk until he's out of breath and why on earth would he go back into that? He's not doing that again. He thinks of you as a priority but not just top priority. You should ask him how he's prioritizing you. Are you even in the top 5 or 10?

Yes, I found it nicely ironical how he dislikes that I'm paranoid about the priority business due to my ex and with the same breath compares me to his.
I did ask him how he prioritizes me, he avoided a straight up answer and said that he doesn't understand my fear of being secondary, that he doesn't think of me that way at all. He was sincere in saying that so I think he really doesn't get it that I'm in no way a top priority. It's not about spending every waking moment with me or even thinking of me but it is the underlying attitude, respect and emotion that makes one a priority. I guess if he thinks that this is him putting me as a top priority, this is indeed a serious problem because while right now I can still bend a little and give this a chance, if this is the best I will get, I will walk out of it at some point. The fact that I know it makes me wary and he will sense that and if he wants to talk about it, we will be right back in the beginning because he simply doesn't seem to get it.

I don't know if anything will become of it. Today I'm pretty pessimistic. I will wait before deciding anything, I need time to figure it out.

7. No Allie, he's protecting himself, not you. He is part of the banter, you can believe that.

I know, that's what I thought as well.

**
And you're absolutely right. My reason is telling me to leave, my heart is not willing. So I'm trying to make them compromise by waiting a bit. With a little hope that perhaps something I said yesterday will sink in and change the way he sees things. It's an idle hope, not even a serious one, I know the chances of that are about as high as a dolphin growing wings. But I think I need to give myself some time to adjust to the situation at hand and prepare myself for leaving. I've never been one to storm out of the door fast. I need to be absolutely sure that it's what I have to do because when I do leave, it's for good. There are no second chances then. I am shocked that I gave him a second chance to begin with but I won't make the same exception twice. So with that being so absolute, it won't come fast.

(Steve Harvey) men Profess, Protect and Provide...If a man isn't protecting you, professing to everyone you're his woman nor providing financially which includes his time then he doesn't want you enough.

Allie what are you worth?

Men have a minimum and a maximum. Men know most women want the maximum but if he sense she's in love then he can offer the minimum and can a maximum return.

What I mean is this. Some men offer you less FIRST to see if he can get you for free--free as in not committing--as in not putting in real relationship work, he can be casual, call you when he feel like it etc.

Some men have it in there mind they'll offer you less FIRST and if you accept, great, I can be lazy and she'll still show up and yet if you say no that's not good enough, he'll counter offer you something in between and if you reject that and he's really into you, he'll counter offer you everything--title and commitment or he'll walk, price is too high, he doesn't want to be obligated to spend time with you, to show up etc, price of being with you is too high for him, he's out.

Some men will offer you less for example FWB, casual dating with a bit of cuddling and sex on the side from time to time and if that's not a good offer FOR YOU then you should counter offer it with what you need in order for him to be in your life.

He's NEGOTIATING his terms. Your choice is to accept or reject his terms and counter offer YOUR terms. If you continue on with him on his terms without negotiating your own then you have accepted his wishy washy terms, don't complain, just take what you get.

If you counter offer for example I can be with you if I'm your girlfriend, we spend time together etc and I'm priority #3 or #4 or #5 etc, these are your terms and he'll realize he's not running the show and he has to offer you something significant for you to stay, meaning you are saying to him I'M WORTH MORE, he can't just leave you hanging, he has to make it worth your while to continue to give out your time, energy, attention.

These are just my thoughts, take what you will and dump it LOL. I wish you the best though, you seem like a great woman, figure out what you want and DEMAND it in your own way b/c you are worth more.

What are you worth? If you know what you're worth then put that out there.

It's okay to wait because that's what you want to do which makes it completely fine but set a sliding scale of time you're going to wait and if progress isn't forthcoming in increments of ever 3 to 6 months (moving forward every several months is a normal relationship timeline) then yes you should consider cutting ties before you get stuck and can't leave.

OR

You can wait him out, stay with him for 10 or more years and he'll have no choice but to marry you LOL...Some women do, do that.

"With a little hope that perhaps something I said yesterday will sink in and change the way he sees things.

When you didn't allow him to second base you, he was very attracted to that person and funny thing is, YOU KNEW YOUR STANDARD AND WORTH, nope "I'm not" sticking around for that other woman crap.

Now there is no woman to compete with, now you're competing with HIM, competing with his desire to stay single and not profess his feelings and prioritize you where I dunno, whatever comes first I suppose so you see that's his other woman.

You know he's not offering you anything (right now) just by all the double talk and yet you're trying to decide if you should stick around for that because just maybe some day he'll change.

You weren't willing to play second when you knew another woman was around, then you should know not to play second just so he can be single, be free and prioritize you #?.

There is a lesson in here somewhere. My guess is he's here to help you learn how to set a standard, know what you want, what you'll accept as worthy of your time or not worthy. Know how to not fall in love unless you know for sure he's worthy of your precious heart most importantly know when to cut your losses when a man isn't offering you much from day one.

Well I am definitely worth a lot more then this. I decided that when I got out of the 8 years of disaster. I sat and waited to become number one and never did. Funnily enough I'm number one NOW for my ex but that's a whole different subject. As I said, when I do decide I'm out, I'm out. I don't look back. So I find it strange and a little amusing that I'm now suddenly top priority but I don't dwell on it, that train has left the station.

I can never make any rash decisions and while my window of opportunity for reaction is already gone, I'm still processing and putting things into place. Right now it looks very much like there won't be a future for us and it hurts incredibly. But I am worth more. In my language there's a saying that translates something like "better a horrible end then an endless horror". But yes. I'm still calculating everything through.

That usually means men are very shocked when I do leave. Because the last trouble is behind the horizon by that point, I leave out of the blue for them 😛

Figure out what you want first and express it, basically don't be afraid to say to him what you want, what you expect, don't be afraid to ask him what his intentions are with you and if he can't raise to your standards..I believe he can by the way but if he can't then....

Why? What are you doing with him if he can't provide. Don't leave until you are sure, as long as you know YOU CAN LEAVE if you need to then you're good, it's bad when you feel stuck, as long as you don't feel stuck, you'll be fine.

This takes time, you have so much to chew on, give it a break mentally, just let it be for a little while and things will become clear.

Yes well he wants to see me tonight. And I want to see him. But I'm not sure how to react really. I mean I do want one night that is completely normal to what we had before but it feels counterproductive because when I've figured out how I'll approach this, it won't work because from his perspective I've given in to lower standards already, why am I now demanding higher ones. You know?

Sadly all the women here that posted advice, who think they understand him, actually don't.

The symptoms displayed as per your descriptions indicates that this relationship will end sooner rather then later.

That is my prediction.

tiki33

Your explanation makes complete sense.

For the majority of the male population.

But not this guy.

If he even smells a wiff, it's blown for good.

And he will smell it.

There is no way to hide it.

Care to elaborate on what you mean exactly?