LeGendary ViRGo
@LeGendary ViRGo
16 Years1,000+ Posts
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Lately
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jason, as tiki said, you must be cloned and mass produced.
LV - try not being defensive? can we begin by agreeing on one universal truth?
✨ virgos don't take critiques well. agreed? ✨
you're saying, "who does?" answer, plenty of people. where we all get defensive, the level at which we get defensive varies wouldn't you agree? well in terms of signs, virgos do not take critique well. just as taurus doesn't like change. who does like change? just as taurus takes change negatively, virgos take critique negatively. agreed?
now if you're someone who is in a friendship/relationship with a virgo that does not take critique well, it can be a maddening union. what you're faced with is someone who can tell you in 101 ways why you are at fault but who can not, who is incapable of recognizing their own short-comings.
for a virgo of this caliber, the answer is always "let's agree to disagree."
no, let's not. thee virgo's partner/friend is trying to tell them in no uncertain terms how they are bringing the relationship down and the virgo will refuse to acknowledge/hear it. if they get sick of hearing truth, they will retreat, run, cut off communication.
notice that you've read many negative posts and your instinctive reaction is to defend the virgo behavior/blame the other sign. jason's reaction...learn from it. low and high.
at a later date the virgo may return, but do you think they return and say, "in retrospect, i could've done this/that differently?" no. all that time away was just them taking time to forgive the other person's 101 offenses. it's always about what the other person has done. sure, the virgo may correct the behaviors that contributed to the problem but don't expect them to say sorry or admit fault.
long story short, the partner/friend will question the worth of a person who cuts them down, who is irrational in a dispute, who runs away instead of confronting his/her own demons and who blames instead of looking in a mirror. is it any wonder some people don't like lower virgos?
LV - try not being defensive? can we begin by agreeing on one universal truth?
✨ virgos don't take critiques well. agreed? ✨
you're saying, "who does?" answer, plenty of people. where we all get defensive, the level at which we get defensive varies wouldn't you agree? well in terms of signs, virgos do not take critique well. just as taurus doesn't like change. who does like change? just as taurus takes change negatively, virgos take critique negatively. agreed?
now if you're someone who is in a friendship/relationship with a virgo that does not take critique well, it can be a maddening union. what you're faced with is someone who can tell you in 101 ways why you are at fault but who can not, who is incapable of recognizing their own short-comings.
for a virgo of this caliber, the answer is always "let's agree to disagree."
no, let's not. thee virgo's partner/friend is trying to tell them in no uncertain terms how they are bringing the relationship down and the virgo will refuse to acknowledge/hear it. if they get sick of hearing truth, they will retreat, run, cut off communication.
notice that you've read many negative posts and your instinctive reaction is to defend the virgo behavior/blame the other sign. jason's reaction...learn from it. low and high.
at a later date the virgo may return, but do you think they return and say, "in retrospect, i could've done this/that differently?" no. all that time away was just them taking time to forgive the other person's 101 offenses. it's always about what the other person has done. sure, the virgo may correct the behaviors that contributed to the problem but don't expect them to say sorry or admit fault.
long story short, the partner/friend will question the worth of a person who cuts them down, who is irrational in a dispute, who runs away instead of confronting his/her own demons and who blames instead of looking in a mirror. is it any wonder some people don't like lower virgos?
^^^yep!
Posted by tubbyscubby
now if you're someone who is in a friendship/relationship with a virgo that does not take critique well, it can be a maddening union. what you're faced with is someone who can tell you in 101 ways why you are at fault but who can not, who is incapable of recognizing their own short-comings.
I find this hard to believe.
Virgos know their short comings better than anyone else.
It's people who bring it up and don't understand it, that drives some of us to ridiculous defensiveness or a prideful reaction. No, some of us are not good at handling critique at all, because no one else can beat ourselves up about it more than us.
Posted by Cajunspirit
I find this hard to believe.
Virgos know their short comings better than anyone else.
It's people who bring it up and don't understand it, that drives some of us to ridiculous defensiveness or a prideful reaction. No, some of us are not good at handling critique at all, because no one else can beat ourselves up about it more than us.
of course you would. only a lower personality would justify behavior or negate a stranger's personal experiences and observations. if i told you i stubbed my toe yesterday, are you going to find that hard to believe as well?
believe it or not, you clearly have a lot to learn about your lower self. and if you were introspective, you'd want to learn about that type of person as well. as a taurus, i recognize both the good and the bad of my sign. i guard against the bad as best i can. doesn't mean that i'm infallible. and when i begin demoing lower taurus behavior, i readily acknowledge it. lower virgos...denial and passing the buck.
so deary based of what you've written, as a virgo, you are incapable of even fathoming the worst in your sign...even when it doesn't pertain to you. which by default, explains why you're a virgo. high or low? i'll leave it to you to examine your own comments to figure that one out.
oh yeah, don't take me out of context. read my posts in their entirety or don't read at all. i shouldn't have to explain what is already written. as a virgo, you should appreciate that.
at a later date the virgo may return, but do you think they return and say, "in retrospect, i could've done this/that differently?" no. all that time away was just them taking time to forgive the other person's 101 offenses. it's always about what the other person has done. sure, the virgo may correct the behaviors that contributed to the problem but don't expect them to say sorry or admit fault.click to expand
Posted by tubbyscubby
of course you would. only a lower personality would justify behavior or negate a stranger's personal experiences and observations. if i told you i stubbed my toe yesterday, are you going to find that hard to believe as well?
I'm not justifying, I am explaining.
Thanks for calling me a "lower personality", though. Much appreciated.
believe it or not, you clearly have a lot to learn about your lower self. and if you were introspective, you'd want to learn about that type of person as well. as a taurus, i recognize both the good and the bad of my sign. i guard against the bad as best i can. doesn't mean that i'm infallible. and when i begin demoing lower taurus behavior, i readily acknowledge it. lower virgos...denial and passing the buck.
That's a big supposition.
The reason I joined this forum is for self discovery, the same reason I began researching astrology.
Of course I am learning about my "lower self". Virgos are extremely introspective.
so deary based of what you've written, as a virgo, you are incapable of even fathoming the worst in your sign...even when it doesn't pertain to you. which by default, explains why you're a virgo. high or low? i'll leave it to you to examine your own comments to figure that one out.
I have more than "fathomed" the worst of my sign. I have seen it first hand.
Never have I discredited your "high and low theory", why do you chose to make implications on me now?
oh yeah, don't take me out of context. read my posts in their entirety or don't read at all. i shouldn't have to explain what is already written. as a virgo, you should appreciate that.click to expand
Neither should I.
The entire intent on this post was to correct you on one facet of your argument. Virgos know their faults better than anyone, the end.
exactly ariane. he won't get it though...trust me. it's that other lower virgo trait that dominated his last post...ego.
cajun-i pointed out exactly how you took my post out of context. i showed you that i did account for the fact that a virgo may at some point acknowledge their short-comings. but you, you want to further explain how your position. next time try..."yes, i missed that." acknowledge fault when it occurs and then further explain your point. i'm not asking you to agree with me 100% but you took me out of context. i didn't make you take me out of context...understand? when you're wrong dude, be a man and admit it.
also, you presume that a virgo, once he/she has committed a wrong, corrects it. WRONG! virgo is human. you may indeed be a cerebral sign but that doesn't necessarily make you swift 😉 in other words, it doesn't matter that you can look inside of yourself if during that process all you can think about is how messed up the other guy is.
virgo is also the sign of the GRUDGE! a virgo can repeat behaviors over the course of a lifetime before correcting them. we all do, that's what makes us human and that's what make me, others and yes, even you imperfect.
a virgo may hold on to a perceived slight (grudge) longer than most other signs. this grudge impedes the introspection. it's why a virgo disappearance can last weeks, months, years!!!!! and when virgo comes back, they may be a better person, but again, their ego keeps them from uttering "i apologize"...which is what makes them, lower virgos, really "sorry."
cajun-i pointed out exactly how you took my post out of context. i showed you that i did account for the fact that a virgo may at some point acknowledge their short-comings. but you, you want to further explain how your position. next time try..."yes, i missed that." acknowledge fault when it occurs and then further explain your point. i'm not asking you to agree with me 100% but you took me out of context. i didn't make you take me out of context...understand? when you're wrong dude, be a man and admit it.
also, you presume that a virgo, once he/she has committed a wrong, corrects it. WRONG! virgo is human. you may indeed be a cerebral sign but that doesn't necessarily make you swift 😉 in other words, it doesn't matter that you can look inside of yourself if during that process all you can think about is how messed up the other guy is.
virgo is also the sign of the GRUDGE! a virgo can repeat behaviors over the course of a lifetime before correcting them. we all do, that's what makes us human and that's what make me, others and yes, even you imperfect.
a virgo may hold on to a perceived slight (grudge) longer than most other signs. this grudge impedes the introspection. it's why a virgo disappearance can last weeks, months, years!!!!! and when virgo comes back, they may be a better person, but again, their ego keeps them from uttering "i apologize"...which is what makes them, lower virgos, really "sorry."
Posted by —Ariane—
Some can admit to them, and some cant which is probably tubbyscubbys point.
I never contested that!
Posted by tubbyscubby
exactly ariane. he won't get it though...trust me. it's that other lower virgo trait that dominated his last post...ego.
cajun-i pointed out exactly how you took my post out of context. i showed you that i did account for the fact that a virgo may at some point acknowledge their short-comings. but you, you want to further explain how your position. next time try..."yes, i missed that." acknowledge fault when it occurs and then further explain your point. i'm not asking you to agree with me 100% but you took me out of context. i didn't make you take me out of context...understand? when you're wrong dude, be a man and admit it.
I did not take you out of context. You took me out of context.
I highlight one facet of your entire post, 1.
I never said you were wrong about "high and low", nor Virgos not admitting to their faults and I even agreed we do not take critique well.
also, you presume that a virgo, once he/she has committed a wrong, corrects it. WRONG! virgo is human. you may indeed be a cerebral sign but that doesn't necessarily make you swift 😉 in other words, it doesn't matter that you can look inside of yourself if during that process all you can think about is how messed up the other guy is.
Where in the nine hells did I make that presumption?
You see this is the problem with other signs trying to interpret a Virgo. You all see more than there is and some of you make up crap that was never even implied half the time!
All I did was explain what goes on in some of our heads.
a virgo may hold on to a perceived slight (grudge) longer than most other signs. this grudge impedes the introspection. it's why a virgo disappearance can last weeks, months, years!!!!! and when virgo comes back, they may be a better person, but again, their ego keeps them from uttering "i apologize"...which is what makes them, lower virgos, really "sorry."click to expand
I'm not one of these "disappearing Virgos" or "refuse to apologise types", I know when I am wrong and I do what must be done.
LV, cant let people's random shit get to you in the Virgo forum, bud 😛
Posted by VirgoHero
LV, cant let people's random shit get to you in the Virgo forum, bud 😛
lol i know VH i know thankyou its just not right if virgos wont speak up then i will i'm not afraid of what people may say about me.
virgohero what the hell are you talking about?
oh i get it, you're all lower types.
someone tries to explain to you WHY you're catching flack and you dismiss it?
yeah, dudes, thanks for being just what you've been reading "Lately"
someone tries to explain to you WHY you're catching flack and you dismiss it?
yeah, dudes, thanks for being just what you've been reading "Lately"
m above...messed up my blocks
Posted by Cajunspirit
I never contested that!
HA! in your first post you didn't acknowledge it either. you semi-did in this one but hey, i know, you're a virgo so will take what i can get.
i did not take you out of context. You took me out of context.
I highlight one facet of your entire post, 1.
that's like reading the first line of a book and concluding the character dies in the end. highlight whatever facet you want as long as you take it within the context in which it was written.
I never said you were wrong about "high and low", nor Virgos not admitting to their faults and I even agreed we do not take critique well.
so we have an accord. stellar!
also, you presume that a virgo, once he/she has committed a wrong, corrects it. WRONG! virgo is human. you may indeed be a cerebral sign but that doesn't necessarily make you swift in other words, it doesn't matter that you can look inside of yourself if during that process all you can think about is how messed up the other guy is.
Where in the nine hells did I make that presumption?click to expand
i stand corrected. i apologize.
when you said..."Virgos know their faults better than anyone, the end" i presumed that that also meant that if you know your faults, you correct them.
so what you're saying/acknowledging is that a virgo can know their faults backwards and forwards yet stubbornly refuse to change, apologize or admit those faults to others?
what has always baffled me is why? if a virgo KNOWS that they are in the wrong as well, what makes them hell bent on focusing on the other person's short-comings? why would they rather end a friendship than own up to their wrongdoing? how can a person who knows their wrong, look you dead in your face and point the finger at you?
it's the above that confuses "other signs."
Posted by tubbyscubby
HA! in your first post you didn't acknowledge it either. you semi-did in this one but hey, i know, you're a virgo so will take what i can get.
I was only concerned with 1 point.
I saw no reason to dissect the entire post which I mostly agreed with.
that's like reading the first line of a book and concluding the character dies in the end. highlight whatever facet you want as long as you take it within the context in which it was written.
Virgos focus on the small details, remember?
I was well within context.
i stand corrected. i apologize.
when you said..."Virgos know their faults better than anyone, the end" \
i presumed that that also meant that if you know your faults, you correct them.
Bingo.
so what you're saying/acknowledging is that a virgo can know their faults backwards and forwards yet stubbornly refuse to change, apologize or admit those faults to others?
I'm doing more than that, I'm affirming it is truth.
I have been and still am guilty of this argument you present.
what has always baffled me is why? if a virgo KNOWS that they are in the wrong as well, what makes them hell bent on focusing on the other person's short-comings?
It's what makes us who we are. Our lives are struggles with the bad, like you said right?
The "High" ones know how to deal with it, the "Low" ones could not be bothered.
why would they rather end a friendship than own up to their wrongdoing?
Pride or Ego, just like you said. Lacking maturity helps too.
How can a person who knows they are wrong, look you dead in your face and point the finger at you?
it's the above that confuses "other signs."click to expand
Because we know what is wrong so well, that we become experts on the subject matter.
We're the analysts of the Zodiacs, thorough and unrelenting. Restless, in the pursuit of perfection.
This answer is not applicable to the context, but it's the point I wish to put forward.
It is because we know we are wrong, and how wrong we have been so well, that we can hope to "help" others come to these realisations as well.
ok, so we're on similar pages. i do recognize that not all virgos are this way. if someone wants to start a thread on the good aspects of the sign and not do so with the ego that typically comes with it, i'd be happy to chime in with how great this sign can be and has been to me.
i don't mind or even really disagree with any of this. helping others when one has not helped oneself...therein lies the rub.
based on what you've said and from personal experience, this is (lower) virgo logic....
1. i know when i'm wrong
2. i know how i've wronged you
3. so now i'm going to focus on how to make YOU better so that I don't do wrong in the future.
the above is sheer insanity and where i get how the circular logic makes sense to a virgo, it makes sense to no one else. that doesn't make a virgo misunderstood. it means that the person who rationalizes this way is of the lower type. and no lower type of any sign deserves understanding.
in other words, if i'm being a stubborn, unchangeable, controlling witch, my partner isn't at fault. he doesn't need to better understand me. i need to better myself regardless of how he contributes to the dysfunction in the relationship. when i'm mature enough to recognize this, I MAKE CHANGES! if after making those changes my partner is behaving toxically, THAT'S when i help them.
to me, and most rational people, that's the logical approach.
a virgo on the other hand, if they start behaving like their lower selves, they don't change themselves...they think of ways in which their partner can change to prevent them from being a jackass. i.e...
stop doing things to make me hit you
don't dress that way and i won't molest you
yes, extreme examples but don't miss the bigger point. my question is, how can a sign that claims to be irrational, be soooooooo irrational? even the lower ones? or maybe that's what the sign is about. you're either rational/sane.
Because we know what is wrong so well, that we become experts on the subject matter.
We're the analysts of the Zodiacs, thorough and unrelenting. Restless, in the pursuit of perfection.
This answer is not applicable to the context, but it's the point I wish to put forward.
It is because we know we are wrong, and how wrong we have been so well, that we can hope to "help" others come to these realisations as well.
i don't mind or even really disagree with any of this. helping others when one has not helped oneself...therein lies the rub.
based on what you've said and from personal experience, this is (lower) virgo logic....
1. i know when i'm wrong
2. i know how i've wronged you
3. so now i'm going to focus on how to make YOU better so that I don't do wrong in the future.
the above is sheer insanity and where i get how the circular logic makes sense to a virgo, it makes sense to no one else. that doesn't make a virgo misunderstood. it means that the person who rationalizes this way is of the lower type. and no lower type of any sign deserves understanding.
in other words, if i'm being a stubborn, unchangeable, controlling witch, my partner isn't at fault. he doesn't need to better understand me. i need to better myself regardless of how he contributes to the dysfunction in the relationship. when i'm mature enough to recognize this, I MAKE CHANGES! if after making those changes my partner is behaving toxically, THAT'S when i help them.
to me, and most rational people, that's the logical approach.
a virgo on the other hand, if they start behaving like their lower selves, they don't change themselves...they think of ways in which their partner can change to prevent them from being a jackass. i.e...
stop doing things to make me hit you
don't dress that way and i won't molest you
yes, extreme examples but don't miss the bigger point. my question is, how can a sign that claims to be irrational, be soooooooo irrational? even the lower ones? or maybe that's what the sign is about. you're either rational/sane.
ugh! claims to be rational...
Posted by tubbyscubby
virgohero what the hell are you talking about?
What am I talking about? Lv's first comment...
"lately there been loads of virgo bashing 2 tha ninth degree wats up with that we keep telling people how we are and its not sticking to people heads if u cant deal with us at all then move on i refuse its all virgos fault for causing stress.
find signs that you are compatible with and be happy end of story."
I shall elaborate. For me, you can't take every comment, criticism, feedback as a personal attack on your own self.
1. I usually end up running or leading my team or crew because I just gravitate to doing it. If you're ever in that spot, you NEED to be able to take criticism and commentary CHEST ON, without flinching, or you'll never make it in that role.
2. If you're doing anything competitively or skill related, whether its a sport, game, or a progressive skill... the only way you get better is by doing it with someone of your skill level or better than you, and part of that improvement is taking criticism and commentary on how to improve yourself, your skill, your game, whatever the hell it is.
Now the trick is...figuring out who can give you the best improvement 😛
Anyways LV, I'm not cutting you down. Just a different perspective. You seem like someone who enjoys learning. Use it to your advantage.
Posted by tubbyscubby
i don't mind or even really disagree with any of this. helping others when one has not helped oneself...therein lies the rub.
It's the Virgo-Pisces nature, help those in need.
Be of service as much as you can.
Even if we still have not "helped" ourselves, we believe we know what is best.
Some times we do, some times we do not.
based on what you've said and from personal experience, this is (lower) virgo logic....
1. i know when i'm wrong
2. i know how i've wronged you
3. so now i'm going to focus on how to make YOU better so that I don't do wrong in the future.
the above is sheer insanity and where i get how the circular logic makes sense to a virgo, it makes sense to no one else. that doesn't make a virgo misunderstood.
I agree that is sheer insanity, but at the same time, it doesn't look like a Virgo formula to me at all.
to me, and most rational people, that's the logical approach.
a virgo on the other hand, if they start behaving like their lower selves, they don't change themselves...they think of ways in which their partner can change to prevent them from being a jackass. i.e...
stop doing things to make me hit you
don't dress that way and i won't molest you
Well... maybe they understand their lower self more than you think.
Some reactions are just gut reactions and if a Virgo recognises that they can't help it, they advise the other person on what to do to avoid such situations. Yes, we are logical, yes we are rational but we are not the robots we want to be and our subconscious catapults out reactions even we don't always understand.
yes, extreme examples but don't miss the bigger point. my question is, how can a sign that claims to be rational, be soooooooo irrational? even the lower ones?click to expand
We're human too 😢
Unfortunately...
I have seen all signs exhibit behaviour in extreme opposition to what is expected.
Biased Libras, Cold Pisces, Negative Sagittarians, Humble Leos. We all have the capacity to accomplish this.
Virgos are more prone to being rational, but when you throw in emotions we can't control, that's when things go awry.
this is where we part company. the sad part is, your arguments are illogical but you fail to see it. it's actually quite fascinating.
discussing the negative aspects of virgo with a virgo is a dead-end street anyway. you're hyper aware of your faults and yet when they're pointed out to you, rational thought, logical discussion goes out the window and that childish nature surfaces. but let's continue...
"It is because we know we are wrong, and how wrong we have been so well, that we can hope to "help" others come to these realisations as well."
you failed to notice the last part even when i quoted it above. before you go changing the world, at what point do you fix self? at what point do you admit fault? some of you have already admitted you do not know how to properly apologize. in fact, your apologies are anti-apologies. cajun, you have actually stated that during the course of an apology, you are sure to point out how the other individual is wrong. you view this as logical...as rational. any psychologist would tell you it's not. there are people around the globe who are laying on couches right now to deal with the non-apology affliction. grand majority are lower virgos 😛
you've also stated that when emotion is involved, "things go awry." well uhm, if you don't know how to maintain rationality in the face of emotion, then you are the epitome of an irrational being. someone who is able to weather emotion and keep it in check is rational and logical. a person who goes loopy when feelings are involved is wacked.
try something. the next time someone critiques you, sit, listen and absorb. don't get flip, don't get angry, don't run and hide, just sit there and take it all in. why? cause if you know so much, what would there be to critique? you can't learn how to better yourself solely within your own mind. you can't better yourself by "fixing," "helping" or "saving" others. try as you might, you'll still come up flawed.
if it weren't so late/early/whatever, if i didn't have the bourne trilogy to finish before i pass out, i'd take the time to go through some of your past posts to show you how illogical you actually are but i have a date with damon..
discussing the negative aspects of virgo with a virgo is a dead-end street anyway. you're hyper aware of your faults and yet when they're pointed out to you, rational thought, logical discussion goes out the window and that childish nature surfaces. but let's continue...
"It is because we know we are wrong, and how wrong we have been so well, that we can hope to "help" others come to these realisations as well."
you failed to notice the last part even when i quoted it above. before you go changing the world, at what point do you fix self? at what point do you admit fault? some of you have already admitted you do not know how to properly apologize. in fact, your apologies are anti-apologies. cajun, you have actually stated that during the course of an apology, you are sure to point out how the other individual is wrong. you view this as logical...as rational. any psychologist would tell you it's not. there are people around the globe who are laying on couches right now to deal with the non-apology affliction. grand majority are lower virgos 😛
you've also stated that when emotion is involved, "things go awry." well uhm, if you don't know how to maintain rationality in the face of emotion, then you are the epitome of an irrational being. someone who is able to weather emotion and keep it in check is rational and logical. a person who goes loopy when feelings are involved is wacked.
try something. the next time someone critiques you, sit, listen and absorb. don't get flip, don't get angry, don't run and hide, just sit there and take it all in. why? cause if you know so much, what would there be to critique? you can't learn how to better yourself solely within your own mind. you can't better yourself by "fixing," "helping" or "saving" others. try as you might, you'll still come up flawed.
if it weren't so late/early/whatever, if i didn't have the bourne trilogy to finish before i pass out, i'd take the time to go through some of your past posts to show you how illogical you actually are but i have a date with damon..
Posted by tubbyscubby
this is where we part company. the sad part is, your arguments are illogical but you fail to see it. it's actually quite fascinating.
Bold words.
discussing the negative aspects of virgo with a virgo is a dead-end street anyway. you're hyper aware of your faults and yet when they're pointed out to you, rational thought, logical discussion goes out the window and that childish nature surfaces. but let's continue...
Where is the evidence, that I have done this?
you failed to notice the last part even when i quoted it above. before you go changing the world, at what point do you fix self? at what point do you admit fault?
I did not fail to notice anything, if I did not reply to a part of your post, I either agree with it or see it as irrelevant.
Fault is admitted when concrete evidence and rational are imposed.
some of you have already admitted you do not know how to properly apologize. in fact, your apologies are anti-apologies. cajun, you have actually stated that during the course of an apology, you are sure to point out how the other individual is wrong. you view this as logical...as rational. any psychologist would tell you it's not. there are people around the globe who are laying on couches right now to deal with the non-apology affliction. grand majority are lower virgos 😛
Your opinion is noted.
you've also stated that when emotion is involved, "things go awry." well uhm, if you don't know how to maintain rationality in the face of emotion, then you are the epitome of an irrational being. someone who is able to weather emotion and keep it in check is rational and logical. a person who goes loopy when feelings are involved is wacked.click to expand
No, I said when uncontrollable emotions are involved, things go awry. There is a big difference. There are few emotions Virgos can not control, anger being one of them. Anger typically arises from offense, and you Ms. tubbyscubby are highly offensive.
Stop presuming I said things, that you made up.
Sure you can argue that your offensiveness has swayyed me off the rational path, but that is not so.
I try to reason with you, to explain the Virgo behaviour, but it all seems parallel to your comprehension.
uote>try something. the next time someone critiques you, sit, listen and absorb. don't get flip, don't get angry, don't run and hide, just sit there and take it all in. why? cause if you know so much, what would there be to critique? you can't learn how to better yourself solely within your own mind. you can't better yourself by "fixing," "helping" or "saving" others. try as you might, you'll still come up flawed.
Most people can't read me, far less understand me.
If they bring up a valid point I will listen, otherwise, I have better things to do.
if it weren't so late/early/whatever, if i didn't have the bourne trilogy to finish before i pass out, i'd take the time to go through some of your past posts to show you how illogical you actually are but i have a date with damon..click to expand
Typical, you make statements you say you can provide evidence on, but never do so thanks to prior engagements.
It does not seem to me you have much to back up your outrageous claims.
yet when they're pointed out to you, rational thought, logical discussion goes out the window and that childish nature surfaces. but let's continue...
"Where is the evidence, that I have done this?"
you do realize i meant the figurative you? oh wait, you're on the defensive over some perceived offense so no, you didn't realize it. but anyhoo. evidence? hmm, maybe it's...
There are few emotions Virgos can not control, anger being one of them. Anger typically arises from offense, and you Ms. tubbyscubby are highly offensive.
Stop presuming I said things, that you made up.
Sure you can argue that your offensiveness has swayyed me off the rational path, but that is not so.
I try to reason with you, to explain the Virgo behaviour, but it all seems parallel to your comprehension.
virgos can't control their anger? anger is an immature emotion. anger results in irrational/illogical thoughts and actions. now scroll back up and read. TA-DA! you have your evidence. happy? no? ANG-GREE!? yep.
Some reactions are just gut reactions and if a Virgo recognises that they can't help it, they advise the other person on what to do to avoid such situations. Yes, we are logical, yes we are rational but we are not the robots we want to be and our subconscious catapults out reactions even we don't always understand.click to expand
actually, if you "can't help it" then you're not in control and your thought process is more likely to be illogical and irrational. you're not a child. you know right from wrong. and to repeat yet again, the actions/advice of a LOWER virgo has less to do with the other person and everything to do with emotions that the virgo "can't help."
it isn't a matter of, "please don't leave your dirty clothes on the floor, it upsets me." go back and read ariane's thread. she's less offensive so you should have less trouble comprehending.
to be continued...
let's get off of the logical stint for a moment and discuss virgo and emotion. you're called cold and measured. your detached nature enables you to render sound judgment and all that crap.
the beauty is that it's all a facade. i know. i'm a taurus. in the realm of controlling emotion, we are the master's of the universe. virgos are ms. congeniality. don't worry. you get a crown too, it's only smaller.
my favorite tao principle is polarity and no two signs could learn from it more from it than taurus and virgo. tau seeks mastery over the physical realm...our need for security is a blessing and a curse. tau has mastery over the emotional realm. we lose that mastery when our security is threatened.
virgo seeks mastery over the emotional realm...your needs to be in control over your feelings are a blessing and a curse. virgo has mastery over the intellectual realm. you lose that mastery when your feelings come into play.
polarities is a simple principle. if you push too hard in one direction, you get its opposite. a taurus that is desperately clinging to a loved one will invariably push that loved one away. a virgo that is desperately trying to maintain control of her/his emotions, will invariably lose control of those emotions.
as a cerebral sign, virgos problems/issues/failings are within you. not the outside world. you can't tidy up enough, you can't correct your lover enough, you can't put enough things in order in the physical realm to fix a problem that resides within you. a mature virgo will recognize this. an immature one will make their problems about everyone and everything else...virgo, the martyr. in other words, he/she will become hypercritical, unwavering and unsympathetic...the opposite of a virgo behaving rationally.
in a relationship, imagine what this does to a partner. to be faulted for things that have absolutely nothing to do with you and are reflective of the core problem...the virgo him/herself.
the beauty is that it's all a facade. i know. i'm a taurus. in the realm of controlling emotion, we are the master's of the universe. virgos are ms. congeniality. don't worry. you get a crown too, it's only smaller.
my favorite tao principle is polarity and no two signs could learn from it more from it than taurus and virgo. tau seeks mastery over the physical realm...our need for security is a blessing and a curse. tau has mastery over the emotional realm. we lose that mastery when our security is threatened.
virgo seeks mastery over the emotional realm...your needs to be in control over your feelings are a blessing and a curse. virgo has mastery over the intellectual realm. you lose that mastery when your feelings come into play.
polarities is a simple principle. if you push too hard in one direction, you get its opposite. a taurus that is desperately clinging to a loved one will invariably push that loved one away. a virgo that is desperately trying to maintain control of her/his emotions, will invariably lose control of those emotions.
as a cerebral sign, virgos problems/issues/failings are within you. not the outside world. you can't tidy up enough, you can't correct your lover enough, you can't put enough things in order in the physical realm to fix a problem that resides within you. a mature virgo will recognize this. an immature one will make their problems about everyone and everything else...virgo, the martyr. in other words, he/she will become hypercritical, unwavering and unsympathetic...the opposite of a virgo behaving rationally.
in a relationship, imagine what this does to a partner. to be faulted for things that have absolutely nothing to do with you and are reflective of the core problem...the virgo him/herself.
I just wanted to see what this thread is all about, and the main subject was :
"lately there been loads of virgo bashing 2 tha ninth degree wats up with that we keep telling people how we are and its not sticking to people heads if u cant deal with us at all then move on i refuse its all virgos fault for causing stress.
find signs that you are compatible with and be happy end of story."
I think hes just saying, stop talking only about the negative things in a virgo. WE already know what they are, and depending on the person and maturity they can fix the faults themselves. For me, I usually learn my lesson after the first time. But other things like harsh criticism and negativity or running etc etc, is just destined to happen with us virgos. We cant really fix that because it just happens, although we can adjust to it so the other person doesnt take it the wrong way.
Now, as i read through the 2 pages i noticed almost every single comment was about the negative aspects, which is what was stated in the first message. Seriously dont come in here saying ALL virgos are low life creatures, because we are human just like anybody else and we do have POSITIVE traits. Everybody has both positive and negative. Simply, if you do not like how we are then dont come in here making stupid little arguments about virgo's.
"lately there been loads of virgo bashing 2 tha ninth degree wats up with that we keep telling people how we are and its not sticking to people heads if u cant deal with us at all then move on i refuse its all virgos fault for causing stress.
find signs that you are compatible with and be happy end of story."
I think hes just saying, stop talking only about the negative things in a virgo. WE already know what they are, and depending on the person and maturity they can fix the faults themselves. For me, I usually learn my lesson after the first time. But other things like harsh criticism and negativity or running etc etc, is just destined to happen with us virgos. We cant really fix that because it just happens, although we can adjust to it so the other person doesnt take it the wrong way.
Now, as i read through the 2 pages i noticed almost every single comment was about the negative aspects, which is what was stated in the first message. Seriously dont come in here saying ALL virgos are low life creatures, because we are human just like anybody else and we do have POSITIVE traits. Everybody has both positive and negative. Simply, if you do not like how we are then dont come in here making stupid little arguments about virgo's.
^^^yeah, everybody has positive and negative so what the hell are you complaining about?
get over yourself. throw your "don't talk about me tantrum" on the playground where it belongs.
listen at you guys boo-hoo..."everybody treats us so poorly." jan brady syndrome yet again. and the sad part is, it's not the women who are whining. it's the men.
get over yourself. throw your "don't talk about me tantrum" on the playground where it belongs.
listen at you guys boo-hoo..."everybody treats us so poorly." jan brady syndrome yet again. and the sad part is, it's not the women who are whining. it's the men.
Posted by tubbyscubby
^^^yeah, everybody has positive and negative so what the hell are you complaining about?
get over yourself. throw your "don't talk about me tantrum" on the playground where it belongs.
listen at you guys boo-hoo..."everybody treats us so poorly." jan brady syndrome yet again. and the sad part is, it's not the women who are whining. it's the men.
The only thing i was "complaining" about was that you think all virgo's are low life when they all aren't. I simply stated that i already knew what is negative about me, and thats that. Not once was I "crying" like you just said. It just seems like you only have negative things to say to us virgo's.
when Dy's done with that cross, you be sure to climb on up.
are virgos supposed to have a keen attention to detail? if so, what an exaggeration.
obviously you didn't read the two pages you claimed to have read because if you had read, you'd realize how utterly baseless your comments are. you're just whining and at this point, it's expected of you.
note, i offered a suggestion within those two pages that you claimed to have read so that those of you with self-esteem issues could receive the internet ego stroke you so desperately desire.
but nooooo, you wouldn't dare take me up the offer listed within the two pages you claim to have read because it's too much fun being miserable and playing the victim.
are virgos supposed to have a keen attention to detail? if so, what an exaggeration.
obviously you didn't read the two pages you claimed to have read because if you had read, you'd realize how utterly baseless your comments are. you're just whining and at this point, it's expected of you.
note, i offered a suggestion within those two pages that you claimed to have read so that those of you with self-esteem issues could receive the internet ego stroke you so desperately desire.
but nooooo, you wouldn't dare take me up the offer listed within the two pages you claim to have read because it's too much fun being miserable and playing the victim.
LOL what a hateful thing to say that i should go up on a cross, you dont even know me and your already hating on me. And i could care less to have an internet ego, all i wanted to say is that not all virgo's are low life like you think so.
Posted by Earthy-Tones
The only thing i was "complaining" about was that you think all virgo's are low life when they all aren't. I simply stated that i already knew what is negative about me, and thats that. Not once was I "crying" like you just said. It just seems like you only have negative things to say to us virgo's.
"you don't even know me and..."
oh goody! you're hypocrite too.
lata
I understand Virgos..... as I've stated before, Virgos and Aries are very similar. Too similar. That can be a good thing when things are good, and it can be a bad thing when things are bad.
I think the difference between me and my Virgo is that I have taken personal responsability. I haven't been hateful towards him by any means, but I cannot have someone like him in my life because he is too self destructive. I think Virgos are self destructive by nature. Maybe because they are always beating themselves up, but in my case, all I see is him being verbally abusive towards me, him dragging my name in the dirt, holding my personal belongings as hostages, and doing nothing to resolve anything.
I understand that he's not proud of what he has done..... I'm not angry about that. I'm pissed because he doesn't give himself a fair chance. And it's not just with him and I, it's with a lot of aspects in his life. His pill abuse which drains his money. Him working at a place that he doesn't like, yet won't go look for another job. He doesn't take charge and set himself in a positive direction.
He never was like this..... ever. He was a sharp shooter, always honest with me, we always had a great time together, but I think that everything else was going in a tailspin in his life, and I was solid, so he wanted to grab ahold of something. And now I've loosened his grip so that I can swim away.
Maybe me throwing him out of my life was the incorrect thing, but it was the way that he was placing the blame on me and how he has become so irrational that I can't even approach him. It's sad, really. It's painful to see him so hateful towards me. WE used to care about each other, but no matter how many times I do this, it never seizes to surprise me how quickly things can down spiral.
I understand him, and I think that is why I'm being harsh with him. He's acustomed to people catering to him, and I have told him to go make his mistakes and to leave me out of it. Maybe I am to blame for his reaction, but what else is somebody suppose to do?
I think Virgos do have a hrad time admitting fault, but so do Aries. Aries don't hold a grudge by nature.... we don't have it in us, so that is why we can start a fresh so easily. But Virgos, I think they hold grudges, and it only brings them down. I wish Virgos would see that, and recognize what is being acted upon in good faith.
I think the difference between me and my Virgo is that I have taken personal responsability. I haven't been hateful towards him by any means, but I cannot have someone like him in my life because he is too self destructive. I think Virgos are self destructive by nature. Maybe because they are always beating themselves up, but in my case, all I see is him being verbally abusive towards me, him dragging my name in the dirt, holding my personal belongings as hostages, and doing nothing to resolve anything.
I understand that he's not proud of what he has done..... I'm not angry about that. I'm pissed because he doesn't give himself a fair chance. And it's not just with him and I, it's with a lot of aspects in his life. His pill abuse which drains his money. Him working at a place that he doesn't like, yet won't go look for another job. He doesn't take charge and set himself in a positive direction.
He never was like this..... ever. He was a sharp shooter, always honest with me, we always had a great time together, but I think that everything else was going in a tailspin in his life, and I was solid, so he wanted to grab ahold of something. And now I've loosened his grip so that I can swim away.
Maybe me throwing him out of my life was the incorrect thing, but it was the way that he was placing the blame on me and how he has become so irrational that I can't even approach him. It's sad, really. It's painful to see him so hateful towards me. WE used to care about each other, but no matter how many times I do this, it never seizes to surprise me how quickly things can down spiral.
I understand him, and I think that is why I'm being harsh with him. He's acustomed to people catering to him, and I have told him to go make his mistakes and to leave me out of it. Maybe I am to blame for his reaction, but what else is somebody suppose to do?
I think Virgos do have a hrad time admitting fault, but so do Aries. Aries don't hold a grudge by nature.... we don't have it in us, so that is why we can start a fresh so easily. But Virgos, I think they hold grudges, and it only brings them down. I wish Virgos would see that, and recognize what is being acted upon in good faith.
Posted by tubbyscubby
you do realize i meant the figurative you? oh wait, you're on the defensive over some perceived offense so no, you didn't realize it. but anyhoo. evidence? hmm, maybe it's...
There are few emotions Virgos can not control, anger being one of them. Anger typically arises from offense, and you Ms. tubbyscubby are highly offensive.
Stop presuming I said things, that you made up.
Sure you can argue that your offensiveness has swayyed me off the rational path, but that is not so.
I try to reason with you, to explain the Virgo behaviour, but it all seems parallel to your comprehension.
virgos can't control their anger? anger is an immature emotion. anger results in irrational/illogical thoughts and actions. now scroll back up and read. TA-DA! you have your evidence. happy? no? ANG-GREE!? yep.
How thoroughly predictable, you can even see I said it in the post.
actually, if you "can't help it" then you're not in control and your thought process is more likely to be illogical and irrational. you're not a child. you know right from wrong. and to repeat yet again, the actions/advice of a LOWER virgo has less to do with the other person and everything to do with emotions that the virgo "can't help.
All I have been trying to do is explain to you, things from our point of view. But it's pointless with a Fixed and intrinsically stubborn sign, isn't it?
Posted by tubbyscubby
let's get off of the logical stint for a moment and discuss virgo and emotion. you're called cold and measured. your detached nature enables you to render sound judgment and all that crap.
You do not seem to have any respect for Virgos.
the beauty is that it's all a facade. i know. i'm a taurus. in the realm of controlling emotion, we are the master's of the universe. virgos are ms. congeniality. don't worry. you get a crown too, it's only smaller.click to expand
What you are is narrow minded beyond reason.
Taurus control emotions?
That's hilarious.
as a cerebral sign, virgos problems/issues/failings are within you. not the outside world. you can't tidy up enough, you can't correct your lover enough, you can't put enough things in order in the physical realm to fix a problem that resides within you. a mature virgo will recognize this. an immature one will make their problems about everyone and everything else...virgo, the martyr. in other words, he/she will become hypercritical, unwavering and unsympathetic...the opposite of a virgo behaving rationally.
Everyone's failings are within them, how obvious and redundant can you be?
I am finished trying to reason with you, you have your mindset and opinions and they will not be changed. What a waste of my time.
From here on, I will do like the other Virgos on the board and ignore your biased non nonsensical drivel.
Hi, my name is *~ariesgirl~* and I can hold grudges. I don't consider them to be grudges, I just write you off and have no problems leaving you by the wayside because of whatever you have done to annoy me. I don't forget anything when I feel I've been wronged.
My virgo told me he doesn't hold grudges, but I do think that if his feeling are hurt he distances himself. A while back he asked me for my help with something. I was caught off guard because like it was a bit too early in our friendship for him to ask me. His words to me were, "I thought you would want to help." In hindsight he mentioned a lot of rather interesting things and made what I thought were bold requests pretty early on. I'm not quite sure why he felt THAT comfortable being so open, but now he's almost the complete opposite. I miss the way he used to be. I may have just answered my own questions about his recent behavior.
My virgo told me he doesn't hold grudges, but I do think that if his feeling are hurt he distances himself. A while back he asked me for my help with something. I was caught off guard because like it was a bit too early in our friendship for him to ask me. His words to me were, "I thought you would want to help." In hindsight he mentioned a lot of rather interesting things and made what I thought were bold requests pretty early on. I'm not quite sure why he felt THAT comfortable being so open, but now he's almost the complete opposite. I miss the way he used to be. I may have just answered my own questions about his recent behavior.
Caj its a waste of time i own her to many times. she is one big hypocrite she trys talk about lower virgos which is true but she is showing lower taurus behavior.We as virgos are showing why this is happening.. Were not excusing the lover virgo behavior. But she obviously is showing lower taurus behavior. That she has an opinion of us and she is not going to change it, in her world she believes she has won bc you won't argue with her. But in fact she has made an idiot out of her self.
Posted by virgoking
Caj its a waste of time i own her to many times. she is one big hypocrite she trys talk about lower virgos which is true but she is showing lower taurus behavior.We as virgos are showing why this is happening.. Were not excusing the lover virgo behavior. But she obviously is showing lower taurus behavior. That she has an opinion of us and she is not going to change it, in her world she believes she has won bc you won't argue with her. But in fact she has made an idiot out of her self.
Tried to be civil and rational about it, but it all goes nowhere.
Time to exercise the block button 🙂
i have argued from day one that lower virgos...
are irrational and illogical when it comes to taking responsibility for their own short-comings and actions;
have difficulty making heart-felt apologies or admitting fault;
will blame others for the virgo's failings;
are dismissive during the course of a debate;
will run and hide when they have been exposed for being less than perfect, are hurt and/or angry.
From the desk of cajunspirit:
"Even if we still have not 'helped' ourselves, we believe we know what is best."
Translation: I'm flawed, but that doesn't matter. No matter how messed up I am, I will still judge you. I will even judge you for things I have done and will continue to do myself.
"Virgos are more prone to being rational, but when you throw in emotions we can't control, that's when things go awry."
Translation: We spend so much time keeping a strangle hold on our emotions and keeping people at a distance that once our feelings get involved, we don't know how to control them and that's when we retreat, display destructive anger, are hurtful, irrational or illogical.
"It's people who bring it up and don't understand it, that drives some of us to ridiculous defensiveness or a prideful reaction. No, some of us are not good at handling critique at all, because no one else can beat ourselves up about it more than us."
Translation: I have low self-esteem. I beat myself up about my failings all the time. So when I mess up and someone points it out to me, I immediately shut down. During these times, my pride gets in the way and I'm more likely to say/do hurtful things...even to people I care about.
"I'm not one of these 'disappearing Virgos' or 'refuse to apologise types,' I know when I am wrong and I do what must be done."
"...Virgos can not control, anger... Anger typically arises from offense, and you Ms. tubbyscubby are highly offensive."
"Sure you can argue that your offensiveness has swayyed me off the rational path, but that is not so."
"Time to exercise the block button."
are irrational and illogical when it comes to taking responsibility for their own short-comings and actions;
have difficulty making heart-felt apologies or admitting fault;
will blame others for the virgo's failings;
are dismissive during the course of a debate;
will run and hide when they have been exposed for being less than perfect, are hurt and/or angry.
From the desk of cajunspirit:
"Even if we still have not 'helped' ourselves, we believe we know what is best."
Translation: I'm flawed, but that doesn't matter. No matter how messed up I am, I will still judge you. I will even judge you for things I have done and will continue to do myself.
"Virgos are more prone to being rational, but when you throw in emotions we can't control, that's when things go awry."
Translation: We spend so much time keeping a strangle hold on our emotions and keeping people at a distance that once our feelings get involved, we don't know how to control them and that's when we retreat, display destructive anger, are hurtful, irrational or illogical.
"It's people who bring it up and don't understand it, that drives some of us to ridiculous defensiveness or a prideful reaction. No, some of us are not good at handling critique at all, because no one else can beat ourselves up about it more than us."
Translation: I have low self-esteem. I beat myself up about my failings all the time. So when I mess up and someone points it out to me, I immediately shut down. During these times, my pride gets in the way and I'm more likely to say/do hurtful things...even to people I care about.
"I'm not one of these 'disappearing Virgos' or 'refuse to apologise types,' I know when I am wrong and I do what must be done."
"...Virgos can not control, anger... Anger typically arises from offense, and you Ms. tubbyscubby are highly offensive."
"Sure you can argue that your offensiveness has swayyed me off the rational path, but that is not so."
"Time to exercise the block button."
Translation:I, like most lower virgos, am able to have a rational discussion until the topic begins to hit too close to home or when the irrationality of my arguments are brought to light.
Where I was initially able to distinguish between the figurative "you" and lower virgos in comparison to myself, I increasingly became unable to separate myself from the abstract discussion. Increasingly my responses became less about the topic and more about the person on the other end of the discussion. My final two posts contained little to no on-topic responses.
I'm upset. Having now taken the words personally where I did not do so initially, I'm starting to recognize that I'm veering more and more off-topic and this is not good. To avoid any further mistakes, to avoid being held accountable for my words/views, I will retreat. I will ignore this person who I believe has offended me personally.
I arrogantly believe this is the mature action for it is better to run and hide than truly enlighten others if doing so requires self-enlightenment. In short, I can only tolerate this discussion if I ultimately make it about someone other than myself. If it hurts too much, if attacking you doesn't boost my ego, I will shut you out.
from the desk of tubby's cubby
sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!!
Where I was initially able to distinguish between the figurative "you" and lower virgos in comparison to myself, I increasingly became unable to separate myself from the abstract discussion. Increasingly my responses became less about the topic and more about the person on the other end of the discussion. My final two posts contained little to no on-topic responses.
I'm upset. Having now taken the words personally where I did not do so initially, I'm starting to recognize that I'm veering more and more off-topic and this is not good. To avoid any further mistakes, to avoid being held accountable for my words/views, I will retreat. I will ignore this person who I believe has offended me personally.
I arrogantly believe this is the mature action for it is better to run and hide than truly enlighten others if doing so requires self-enlightenment. In short, I can only tolerate this discussion if I ultimately make it about someone other than myself. If it hurts too much, if attacking you doesn't boost my ego, I will shut you out.
from the desk of tubby's cubby
sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!!
BR>Maybe me throwing him out of my life was the incorrect thing, but it was the way that he was placing the blame on me and how he has become so irrational that I can't even approach him. It's sad, really. It's painful to see him so hateful towards me. WE used to care about each other, but no matter how many times I do this, it never seizes to surprise me how quickly things can down spiral.
I understand him, and I think that is why I'm being harsh with him. He's acustomed to people catering to him, and I have told him to go make his mistakes and to leave me out of it. Maybe I am to blame for his reaction, but what else is somebody suppose to do?
i don't think that throwing him out of your life was wrong. i think the reason you may have given MAY be though. he has a pill addiction. the person you knew isn't the person before you so until you realize your trying to rationalize with a drug, any resentment you hold towards him is misplaced. the guy that you knew may or may not be underneath the substance abuse OR if/when he gets clean, you may find that the new him is still nothing like the old him.
consider a recovering addict who's born again. the old person may have not know Leviticus from Leviathan (a la Sean from "Psyche") and yet post-recovery all he can do is quote the Bible. he do a complete 180 as a result of getting clean and where you may be the same, he might be different and based on these differences, you might grow together or further apart.
my point is, make sure that the reason you gave was lucid...unemotional, "practical," "logical" and "rational" 😛
maybe through that drug induced fog he will hear you. doesn't mean he won't still be upset or act ignorantly, but when/if he gets clear of the drugs, he'll remember why you did it and realize you did the right thing vs. abandoned him or whatever excuse he's throwing at you.
But Virgos, I think they hold grudges, and it only brings them down. I wish Virgos would see that, and recognize what is being acted upon in good faith.click to expand
some, after A LOT of introspection, admit it to themselves and may be able to admit it to a 3rd party. others, have yet to deal with it and will grudge for life. they never forget the person and will speak angrily of them from time to time.
tubby...... in all honesty, it's a combination of things. I wanted to establish balance before we got serious. I wanted to build up something strong, and have a transition between friendship to relationship. I knew that it was going to take me time, because I wanted to invest in him and I. Because I had so much respect for him, I didn't want to act impulsively. He has taught me patience, I will never take that away from him. He has held up a mirror to me, I will never be sorry for that.
The drugs..... that is one issue. I can't force somebody to stop doing what they are doing if they aren't motivated in the first place. He gives up too easily. His abuse issues are representative of his overall behavior. He does not want to fix things for himself, and that is the part that confuses me. I took notice, I worked on it, I brought im closer. But, I have trust issues. I have dealt with a liar and a cheater before, and I was well aware of his player ways before hand. That was why I emphasized taking things slow, that way he didn't feel trapped in living a certain way if he wasn't ready for it, and I wasn't going to get trapped in an emotional storm.
But he fits into my life like a glove. We are one of the same, and I think that is why I was able to out-smart him. He was being shady by establishing a relationship with someone else. Truth be told, I know they aren't in a relationship. I know that deep down inside, but I know that he's playing into her weakness, and what I saw was him reverting to his old ways. And I know what his situation is, so adding me to the equation is a receipe for disaster. I simplified things for him, realistically. Once I found out that another female was in the picture, emotionally, I had to let him go to make his mistake, to learn his lesson.
It pissed me off because once again, he gave up too easily. From the very beginning, one of the first things I ever said is that I was scared that he would lose sight of the big picture and his attention would be grabbed by someone that was easier, who didn't know him as well as I do, and that didn't require working hard at something. That is why I took things slow. I'm not saying that his intentions were dishonest, I'm just saying that I know the boy like the back of my fucking hand.
The drugs..... that is one issue. I can't force somebody to stop doing what they are doing if they aren't motivated in the first place. He gives up too easily. His abuse issues are representative of his overall behavior. He does not want to fix things for himself, and that is the part that confuses me. I took notice, I worked on it, I brought im closer. But, I have trust issues. I have dealt with a liar and a cheater before, and I was well aware of his player ways before hand. That was why I emphasized taking things slow, that way he didn't feel trapped in living a certain way if he wasn't ready for it, and I wasn't going to get trapped in an emotional storm.
But he fits into my life like a glove. We are one of the same, and I think that is why I was able to out-smart him. He was being shady by establishing a relationship with someone else. Truth be told, I know they aren't in a relationship. I know that deep down inside, but I know that he's playing into her weakness, and what I saw was him reverting to his old ways. And I know what his situation is, so adding me to the equation is a receipe for disaster. I simplified things for him, realistically. Once I found out that another female was in the picture, emotionally, I had to let him go to make his mistake, to learn his lesson.
It pissed me off because once again, he gave up too easily. From the very beginning, one of the first things I ever said is that I was scared that he would lose sight of the big picture and his attention would be grabbed by someone that was easier, who didn't know him as well as I do, and that didn't require working hard at something. That is why I took things slow. I'm not saying that his intentions were dishonest, I'm just saying that I know the boy like the back of my fucking hand.
tubby continued:
I have read what you have written. Alot of it does ring true, even if you are being a bit bullish about it 😉 Let's say for argumetns sake that Virgo's don't like to be critiqued, don't like to admit fault, and can't control their anger. Then I have provoked all of these. I've critiqued him because I want him to see. Admitting fault doesn't mean admitting wrong doing (that's not what this is about) but it's admitting that there is responsability that needs to be taken care of. My Virgos anger is very similar to my anger..... it's designed to push people away, and the base root of it is emotionally driven.
He does not owe me an apology. I have never said that, although it would be a nice conversation piece. Whether he admits to being wrong is neither here nor there. I care about him, I care about his well being, and I fear that he is being trapped by this other female who has now moved her life from one state to be with him. She has 3 kids, he does not deserve to carry the burden of her failed marriage to someone whom she loved and gave three children to. She holds conditions because she is stipulated to a life that she chose, and it wasn't successful. I understand her loneliness, but she is latching on and he is not equipped to handle her situation. He thinks that she's easy and that she's strong, but he doesn't have to work for her because she's the one establishing everything for "them".
Me, on the other hand, he has to make the choice. I hold that mirror up to him, and I make him realize. I have no motive, because I know that I have to let him go and make his errors for him to realize. I accept him. Even though he has been ugly, mean, spiteful, and keeps ways of trying to have control, I have let it all go because I know how it is that he's feeling, and he's allowing PRIDE to interfer. Wow, don't I know too well about how pride can interfer.
Everytime we have had a disagreement or haven't seen eye-to-eye, we walk away from each other, because that is how we deal with situations. I started realizing how my own actions hurt others. It's been a self-discovery process for me. What is different this time is that I got smart on him, knew what was going on behind my back, but I waited, patiently (his lesson to me) to see what his motives were. Once things became clear to me through his actions, that is when I told him what was up and that he was being removed from my life due to his actions.
I have read what you have written. Alot of it does ring true, even if you are being a bit bullish about it 😉 Let's say for argumetns sake that Virgo's don't like to be critiqued, don't like to admit fault, and can't control their anger. Then I have provoked all of these. I've critiqued him because I want him to see. Admitting fault doesn't mean admitting wrong doing (that's not what this is about) but it's admitting that there is responsability that needs to be taken care of. My Virgos anger is very similar to my anger..... it's designed to push people away, and the base root of it is emotionally driven.
He does not owe me an apology. I have never said that, although it would be a nice conversation piece. Whether he admits to being wrong is neither here nor there. I care about him, I care about his well being, and I fear that he is being trapped by this other female who has now moved her life from one state to be with him. She has 3 kids, he does not deserve to carry the burden of her failed marriage to someone whom she loved and gave three children to. She holds conditions because she is stipulated to a life that she chose, and it wasn't successful. I understand her loneliness, but she is latching on and he is not equipped to handle her situation. He thinks that she's easy and that she's strong, but he doesn't have to work for her because she's the one establishing everything for "them".
Me, on the other hand, he has to make the choice. I hold that mirror up to him, and I make him realize. I have no motive, because I know that I have to let him go and make his errors for him to realize. I accept him. Even though he has been ugly, mean, spiteful, and keeps ways of trying to have control, I have let it all go because I know how it is that he's feeling, and he's allowing PRIDE to interfer. Wow, don't I know too well about how pride can interfer.
Everytime we have had a disagreement or haven't seen eye-to-eye, we walk away from each other, because that is how we deal with situations. I started realizing how my own actions hurt others. It's been a self-discovery process for me. What is different this time is that I got smart on him, knew what was going on behind my back, but I waited, patiently (his lesson to me) to see what his motives were. Once things became clear to me through his actions, that is when I told him what was up and that he was being removed from my life due to his actions.
M.I.A - unfortunately, i can't ignore the substance abuse. you seem hell bent on doing it and i know that's love speaking. try to understand the bigger point...
an addicted person is no longer "human." an addicted person is synonymous with their drug. an addicted person will hurt everyone around them. they will forsake their mother, their father, their siblings, their lover, even their child when they are sufficiently hooked.
you need to understand that's not the same as a human being who's flawed. where we all have flaws, our flaws aren't the result of bio-chemical alteration (unless we have some disorder). if i forget your birthday, i didn't forget because i was on a bender. i forgot because...it slipped my mind, i had a long day at work, i'm a selfish a-hole. i know the two seem similar but they're not.
you don't want to judge him and the truth is, if there's anyone you have the right to judge, it's an addict. you're not judging the person, you're judging the drug. is the drug good or is the drug bad? if it's bad, it's bad all day, every day. he's the drug.
listen...i know you worked hard so that this wouldn't fail. and maybe, had he not been influenced by drugs, who knows. but right now, none of your careful planning matters. are you not getting that or am i missing something? i mean, it's your life and i can only base my opinion on what i know thus far and the only thing i see/hear/understand is dude is an addict. everything else is secondary...including your feelings.
an addicted person is no longer "human." an addicted person is synonymous with their drug. an addicted person will hurt everyone around them. they will forsake their mother, their father, their siblings, their lover, even their child when they are sufficiently hooked.
you need to understand that's not the same as a human being who's flawed. where we all have flaws, our flaws aren't the result of bio-chemical alteration (unless we have some disorder). if i forget your birthday, i didn't forget because i was on a bender. i forgot because...it slipped my mind, i had a long day at work, i'm a selfish a-hole. i know the two seem similar but they're not.
you don't want to judge him and the truth is, if there's anyone you have the right to judge, it's an addict. you're not judging the person, you're judging the drug. is the drug good or is the drug bad? if it's bad, it's bad all day, every day. he's the drug.
listen...i know you worked hard so that this wouldn't fail. and maybe, had he not been influenced by drugs, who knows. but right now, none of your careful planning matters. are you not getting that or am i missing something? i mean, it's your life and i can only base my opinion on what i know thus far and the only thing i see/hear/understand is dude is an addict. everything else is secondary...including your feelings.
OMG! i can't wait until this SEO is complete because posting right now SUCKS! congrats to the webmaster for entering the year 2000.
tubby continued one last time:
I gave him opportunities to end things with me and to restore the friendship. I allowed that, knowing full well the deciet and the dishonesty he had already caused. He chose to keep the relationship. I think he never expected this woman to move down for him. And all of a sudden he found himself in a situation. I made the situaton easier for him by leaving. He doesn't want that, he wants me in his life, but he knows how bad he fucked up, pride gets in the way, he reacts emotionally to what it is that I've laid out on the table, and all he has now is the situation with her.
I represent choice. In order for him to be in my life, he has to make several choices. Stop living the destructive life that he is living. Stop the abuse, drug wise, emotionally wise, and women wise. Start taking responsability for his actions. Stop avoiding issues, and start confront the problems in his life, his emotions being the biggest cause for wipe outs. He is insecure, and the way he feels secure is by prey on women. That validates him. The needier, the better, because the more they need him the more he feels validated. Wonderful. It's just another way for him to avoid, to supress his issues, and to put him onthe back burner so that he doesn't have to face himself.
Me, on the other hand, I'm very self-sufficient. Independence doesn't even begin to describe me. I do things on my own, live my life, and that is why I can walk the straight line. That doesn't validate him, because I don't NEED him. The circumstances are already different, and that means that he has to brush himself up to par. It means that he has to look at himself. I make him realize, just like he makes me realize. But for once, he doesn't have to "fix" something. He is more than welcome to correct me, help me perfect myself, but I can fix myself. That scenario is different. Because the role is reversed..... I can fix him because I've been on the road of fixing myself. And I can help him get on that road, and I can help him elevate his life, but he has to want it and he has to make that choice for himself. And as long as he's going after other people's needs, he's avoiding his own. And as long as he's avoiding his own needs, he's going to push me away. I know and understand this.
So, he can hate me and be angry at me for as long as he wants. The bottom line is, if he wants to be involved in my life, he's going to have to make choices for himself. It's called tough love.
I gave him opportunities to end things with me and to restore the friendship. I allowed that, knowing full well the deciet and the dishonesty he had already caused. He chose to keep the relationship. I think he never expected this woman to move down for him. And all of a sudden he found himself in a situation. I made the situaton easier for him by leaving. He doesn't want that, he wants me in his life, but he knows how bad he fucked up, pride gets in the way, he reacts emotionally to what it is that I've laid out on the table, and all he has now is the situation with her.
I represent choice. In order for him to be in my life, he has to make several choices. Stop living the destructive life that he is living. Stop the abuse, drug wise, emotionally wise, and women wise. Start taking responsability for his actions. Stop avoiding issues, and start confront the problems in his life, his emotions being the biggest cause for wipe outs. He is insecure, and the way he feels secure is by prey on women. That validates him. The needier, the better, because the more they need him the more he feels validated. Wonderful. It's just another way for him to avoid, to supress his issues, and to put him onthe back burner so that he doesn't have to face himself.
Me, on the other hand, I'm very self-sufficient. Independence doesn't even begin to describe me. I do things on my own, live my life, and that is why I can walk the straight line. That doesn't validate him, because I don't NEED him. The circumstances are already different, and that means that he has to brush himself up to par. It means that he has to look at himself. I make him realize, just like he makes me realize. But for once, he doesn't have to "fix" something. He is more than welcome to correct me, help me perfect myself, but I can fix myself. That scenario is different. Because the role is reversed..... I can fix him because I've been on the road of fixing myself. And I can help him get on that road, and I can help him elevate his life, but he has to want it and he has to make that choice for himself. And as long as he's going after other people's needs, he's avoiding his own. And as long as he's avoiding his own needs, he's going to push me away. I know and understand this.
So, he can hate me and be angry at me for as long as he wants. The bottom line is, if he wants to be involved in my life, he's going to have to make choices for himself. It's called tough love.
tubby.... he is addicted to drugs because it helps him avoid. He's not a drug addict out of choice. He never used to be like that. but life has taken a downward spiral for him, like how he had high hopes when he became an executive chef, and they mistreated him at his job. He ended up walking out, and unfortunately, in this town, walking out of a kitchen means that a lot of doors close. I forced him to swallow his pride and go talk to our old boss for advice and to see if he could help him. It has led him to where he works now, which isn't stable (low work hours) but I've tried to get him to get another job. He just gives up too easily.
His living situation is bad, yet he does nothing to change (she's another needy mess, his words exactly being that he thinks she's special, meaning she has special needs). He is in a financial mess, and when he does have money, he spends it on drugs, booze and pills. I smoke pot, but I've been financially strapped due to saving money for school. Ask me when the last time I smoked. I broke a bowl to scrape the resin, but I'm focused on my goals. And that's the thing... goals. I couldn't tell you what his goals in life are. I think he feels that he's attained a certain amount in life, and that somehow the rest is owed to him. And that is very much his attitude.so it all ties in together.
Even though he is making the wrong choices, he's still a human, and he still means something to me. I just can't participate his self-destruction. And he was trying to kick his pill abuse, went up to see his mom and all, but then he walked right into this 3 child mother bullshit, and so the cycle begins all over again. his needs being put on the back burner because now he can avoid, avoid, avoid. So, maybe she will have him stop smoking because the kids can smell. But coke and pills are easy to hide, and she's just aiding in his downward spiral. The sick part is, she's committed to him, but he hasn't committed to her. The point being, it's not just the drugs that is affecting his life. If it were just drugs, I would kick that shit out of the way and carry on a relationship with him. Not a problem. The problem is him, his life style , his avoidance issues, and his deep rooted emotions that prevent him from fully functioning and attaining what he desires in life. The girls that he plays with, he identifies with, because he is needy too. The girls, the drugs, the booze, the unstability of his life..... they all support how he views himself
His living situation is bad, yet he does nothing to change (she's another needy mess, his words exactly being that he thinks she's special, meaning she has special needs). He is in a financial mess, and when he does have money, he spends it on drugs, booze and pills. I smoke pot, but I've been financially strapped due to saving money for school. Ask me when the last time I smoked. I broke a bowl to scrape the resin, but I'm focused on my goals. And that's the thing... goals. I couldn't tell you what his goals in life are. I think he feels that he's attained a certain amount in life, and that somehow the rest is owed to him. And that is very much his attitude.so it all ties in together.
Even though he is making the wrong choices, he's still a human, and he still means something to me. I just can't participate his self-destruction. And he was trying to kick his pill abuse, went up to see his mom and all, but then he walked right into this 3 child mother bullshit, and so the cycle begins all over again. his needs being put on the back burner because now he can avoid, avoid, avoid. So, maybe she will have him stop smoking because the kids can smell. But coke and pills are easy to hide, and she's just aiding in his downward spiral. The sick part is, she's committed to him, but he hasn't committed to her. The point being, it's not just the drugs that is affecting his life. If it were just drugs, I would kick that shit out of the way and carry on a relationship with him. Not a problem. The problem is him, his life style , his avoidance issues, and his deep rooted emotions that prevent him from fully functioning and attaining what he desires in life. The girls that he plays with, he identifies with, because he is needy too. The girls, the drugs, the booze, the unstability of his life..... they all support how he views himself
i get what you're saying and i do SOMEWHAT understand he situation. my point is, if he chick were missing, if he go more hours at work, if his living situation were better, do you not realize that the whatever stability he achieves will crumble if he's still addicted?
we're all human and what i was trying to get at in the previous post is that sometimes, when a person has human failures AND drug addiction, loved ones focus on the human failures. in other words, what happened before the addiction. i.e. a girl who's molested at a young age may turn to drugs or a boy who's abused may do so as well. the childhood events may have been the spark but you can't deal the the catalyst until the person is out of the haze.
he has to get clean first...be of clean body and mind for you to help him. otherwise, he's toxic. he's toxic to her, he's toxic to you.
i need you to dvr Intervention on A&E. an addict doesn't have to be rock bottom to be f'd up. he doesn't have to be on the street and destitute to be totally out of it. even this is hard to walk away from when you love someone...
i smoke(d) herb too. i stopped over a year ago but if i so desired, i would begin again. equating herb to pills...no go. equating herb, to alcohol, no go. you and i both know there is a difference.
you did the right thing by letting him go. my point to you is, being clear as to why. do NOT discuss the other woman, do NOT discuss the betrayal. focus on the fact that he's financially and socially (home-wise) in a place he doesn't want to be.
i'm sure you think you're there but if you love someone, you want them to be healthy, with or without you. you don't seem to be there yet. it sounds as if, and i may be wrong, you're still bitter about the way the break up went down. and that's ok. but once you let that go, you'll realize, you ultimately want him to be happy because anyone reading what you just wrote has no clue why you'd want to be with this dude. i don't care how he "used to be."
we're all human and what i was trying to get at in the previous post is that sometimes, when a person has human failures AND drug addiction, loved ones focus on the human failures. in other words, what happened before the addiction. i.e. a girl who's molested at a young age may turn to drugs or a boy who's abused may do so as well. the childhood events may have been the spark but you can't deal the the catalyst until the person is out of the haze.
he has to get clean first...be of clean body and mind for you to help him. otherwise, he's toxic. he's toxic to her, he's toxic to you.
i need you to dvr Intervention on A&E. an addict doesn't have to be rock bottom to be f'd up. he doesn't have to be on the street and destitute to be totally out of it. even this is hard to walk away from when you love someone...
i smoke(d) herb too. i stopped over a year ago but if i so desired, i would begin again. equating herb to pills...no go. equating herb, to alcohol, no go. you and i both know there is a difference.
you did the right thing by letting him go. my point to you is, being clear as to why. do NOT discuss the other woman, do NOT discuss the betrayal. focus on the fact that he's financially and socially (home-wise) in a place he doesn't want to be.
i'm sure you think you're there but if you love someone, you want them to be healthy, with or without you. you don't seem to be there yet. it sounds as if, and i may be wrong, you're still bitter about the way the break up went down. and that's ok. but once you let that go, you'll realize, you ultimately want him to be happy because anyone reading what you just wrote has no clue why you'd want to be with this dude. i don't care how he "used to be."
^^ok, clearly the letter "t" wasn't working for me in the above post. insert "t" as needed.
UGH! ok, i stopped smoking REGULARLY a year ago. had to hide the above post which is admittedly filled with typos to clarify even further.
M.I.A - i guess i just can't totally relate to what you're going through but at the end of the day, i'm baffled as to how/why you feel like you've lost something? the only thing that makes sense is, you're still in love. when you fall out of it, things are bound to be clearer but work through it in your own time. you're an aries. you should be up and running a lot quicker than some.
UGH! ok, i stopped smoking REGULARLY a year ago. had to hide the above post which is admittedly filled with typos to clarify even further.
M.I.A - i guess i just can't totally relate to what you're going through but at the end of the day, i'm baffled as to how/why you feel like you've lost something? the only thing that makes sense is, you're still in love. when you fall out of it, things are bound to be clearer but work through it in your own time. you're an aries. you should be up and running a lot quicker than some.
Posted by tubbyscubby
^^ok, clearly the letter "t" wasn't working for me in the above post. insert "t" as needed.
UGH! ok, i stopped smoking REGULARLY a year ago. had to hide the above post which is admittedly filled with typos to clarify even further.
M.I.A - i guess i just can't totally relate to what you're going through but at the end of the day, i'm baffled as to how/why you feel like you've lost something? the only thing that makes sense is, you're still in love. when you fall out of it, things are bound to be clearer but work through it in your own time. you're an aries. you should be up and running a lot quicker than some.
I was close to him. I am human with feelings. His actions don't hurt me, it's the fact that I have to let him go that stings. Knowing that there are "things" in the way between us, and knowing that right now we are on opposite sides, yes, it's not so comforting. And I am up and running. I could care less about the fact that the relationship failed. That's never guarenteed in life. What sucks the most is that I lost my best friend. I tried to restore things back to the friendship, but I gotta deal him tough love, otherwise he's not gonna know what the difference is.
Things happen for a reason and end up working out how they are suppose to.
M.I.A, when did his drug abuse begin? did all this stuff happen over night?
Posted by tubbyscubby
M.I.A, when did his drug abuse begin? did all this stuff happen over night?
TS...... I wish I could tell you, but honestly, he's a completely different person than who I met 2 years ago. WE're in an industry where drug usage is very prominant amongst peers..... he has social anxiety, so he's perscribed colatapins. Plus he's perscribed adderol. But we've done a lot of drugs, I just now smoke herb. That life style is not for me.
over the course of a few months I started noticing his demeanor and attitude changed. I think it began when he walked out of his job. He had high hopes, shit fell through. I think things have just bundled and now he has a giant snowball. It's his low self esteem, amxiety, point of view in life.... this all explains his low behavior. He doesn't value himself right now, and that is part of the reason why he did what he did to me.
My mom always warned me about people who tear you down. She said that they do it because it makes them feel better. I never understood it, especially growing up and I would get into arguments with my girlfriends and all the bitching and talking behind one another's back. But, over the course of my experiences, I have grown to understand it. And that is why I judge people not by their character, by their book, their honesty, their loyalty; but by their intent.
I can't judge his intent, because he and I were that close, and he always, always, always showed true intentions with me. He never did me wrong, and he has been there for me during some of my hardest times since I've been here. He's one of the first people I met and really started forming a connected friendship with. Even after he left where we worked at, still stayed in contact and things just kept growing and growing.
All I can say is that he started to hide from me, and he started being secretive with me. I was the one who was hiding at first and being secretive, because I had just moved here and didn't know any body. He's the one that started opening me up, making me stronger, even though I went through a bad fucking time. So, you can imagine my shock when I discovered what has been going on behind my back. He's the one who initiated the relationship with me. But then he initiated something with someone else. How can I judge his intentions? None of it makes any sense to me. None of this has to be like this. He's treating me like I
He's treating me like I have wronged him in some way. He's punishing me, so I took my beating and now I'm carrying on
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