Does this make me.....

Over judgmental or a hippocrit?

The background: I went to a country people's gathering for New Years Eve. Well, it was probably more redneck than country folks. In a shop/garage, beer, open fire, football on TV, karaoke, young folks playing beer pong, etc.

Here's my question. There were teenagers there with their parents and two of them, age approximately 14ish, were so intoxicated by the end of the night, they couldn't even stand up. Now, I'm thinking what kind of parents are these to let kids that young drink that much? Actually, I was apalled. I let my son (a junior in high school) have one beer. ONE. I kept watch of him and made sure he did not over indulge or have more than the one, which he handled with grace and dignity.

Does it make me judgemental or hippocritical to think negative of those parents? I just thought it was irresponsible of them and actually pretty trashy/redneck.

Lets discuss.

I thought it was pretty disgusting how drunk they let these kids get. Then, I thought, well, I let my kid have one. I feel guilty for being so judgemental because I'm trying to get rid of those negative, judgemental thoughts. But I really disagree with their parenting style .

Like Cowpuncher, I was one of those kids raised strict and when I got to college, I went a little crazy with freedome and didn't know how to handle alcohol and had to learn some lessons the hard way.
So, I kind of believe allow minimal in a controlled environment and that way it doesn't become taboo and it becomes no big deal to them to drink.

Maybe the parents wanted the kids to have a really bad hangover to learn their lesson. — But, that technique very, rarely ever works.

Posted by djbuck1
In your scenario, however, idiot friends are unnecessary because the children already have idiot parents.

This is the example those kids are getting. What is the liklihood these kids will grow up to be just like their parents - low potential and drunk every weekend?

Posted by truecap

Posted by djbuck1
In your scenario, however, idiot friends are unnecessary because the children already have idiot parents.

This is the example those kids are getting. What is the liklihood these kids will grow up to be just like their parents - low potential and drunk every weekend?

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Oh, and what are the chances THESE kids are going to be the idot friends to otherwise good kids?

I have to agree with the others here.

A beer at 16 - 17 yrs (with mom present) is no big deal and perfectly normal where I come from.

14 year olds intoxicated, with the parents approval. That's irresponsible parenting.

Further, although there's only probably 2-3 years difference between a high school junior and a 14 year old, the maturity levels of the two are night and day IMO. At least it was true for me at those ages.

I have a 13 yr old son, and I'm a fairly unerstanding "cool" dad, but he's not drinking even one beer with my approval. At those ages (under 16), thet're not ready.

Posted by djbuck1
The irony here is that the person feeling guilty has nothing to feel guilty about while the people who let their kids get drunk are probably laughing about it.

This is fundamentally wrong.

Yes, I know what you're saying. I'm just trying to adopt a "to each their own" mentality.
I think the best thing I can do is just not socialize with these people anymore.

This is so wrong on many levels, even the one beer, but then again I'm from a completely different cultural background than you all.

In my culture, a grown man, married with a family of his own, is not allowed to consume alcohol infront of his parents...it's shameful & frowned upon. It is believed that when a child drinks with or infront of a parent then the level of respect decreases. Some parents won't even allow their kids to enter the home when drunk. It's about respect & respecting your elders.

I'll say you're being hypocritical Truecap because you still allowed your young son to drink just like all those other parents. One beer or a crate it makes no difference because alcohol is still alcohol. One beer on supervision, who knows how many he'll drink when you're not there to monitor him. Alcoholism just like any other addiction starts with only one sip or only one puff, then they'll need more & more as the body gets used to the normal dosage. I'm not saying your son is going to turn up being an alcoholic but introducing him to alcohol makes it a possibility *shrugs*

You are right in thinking it was wrong. Had I been there, I would have said something to the people hosting or parents depending on familiarity. Everybody stood around and watched?

Posted by aquapiscescusp
You are right in thinking it was wrong. Had I been there, I would have said something to the people hosting or parents depending on familiarity. Everybody stood around and watched?

Bunch of drunk rednecks. Didn't want to get their ass kicked for the "don't tell me how to raise my kids" mentality. I don't know those people very well am thinking I don't want to get to know them better.

Geesh. Now I sound like a snob.

Posted by WaterCup
This is so wrong on many levels, even the one beer, but then again I'm from a completely different cultural background than you all.

In my culture, a grown man, married with a family of his own, is not allowed to consume alcohol infront of his parents...it's shameful & frowned upon. It is believed that when a child drinks with or infront of a parent then the level of respect decreases. Some parents won't even allow their kids to enter the home when drunk. It's about respect & respecting your elders.

I'll say you're being hypocritical Truecap because you still allowed your young son to drink just like all those other parents. One beer or a crate it makes no difference because alcohol is still alcohol. One beer on supervision, who knows how many he'll drink when you're not there to monitor him. Alcoholism just like any other addiction starts with only one sip or only one puff, then they'll need more & more as the body gets used to the normal dosage. I'm not saying your son is going to turn up being an alcoholic but introducing him to alcohol makes it a possibility *shrugs*

Thanks for point that out. I do feel a little hippocritical. I'm just trying to teach responsibility now so when he gets freedom he won't feel the need to go overboard and feel the need to binge drink later on.

I do like hearing about the cultural differences on the subject.
I have heard some european cultures allow kids to have some wine with supper, but they're not allowed to over indulge. Not sure if that's accurate.

Posted by truecap

Posted by aquapiscescusp
You are right in thinking it was wrong. Had I been there, I would have said something to the people hosting or parents depending on familiarity. Everybody stood around and watched?

Bunch of drunk rednecks. Didn't want to get their ass kicked for the "don't tell me how to raise my kids" mentality. I don't know those people very well am thinking I don't want to get to know them better.

Geesh. Now I sound like a snob.

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No, who needs people like that? Yes, Europeans do allow for a bit of wine with meal. As a teen I had some wine mixed in with ginger ale. That's it though, no getting drunk. It's a weakness to be seen drunk.

Posted by ElusiveSoul

Posted by aquapiscescusp

No, who needs people like that? Yes, Europeans do allow for a bit of wine with meal. As a teen I had some wine mixed in with ginger ale. That's it though, no getting drunk. It's a weakness to be seen drunk.

Ginger ale? You too? 😄

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Or 7up, whatever was on sale 🙂 (hugs)

@Truecap, do what you feel is right but remember one thing, the kids you saw at the gathering could have started the same way, with only one beer. I despise alcohol though & I allow myself to drink only once a year. I'd kill my child if I ever caught him drunk, no kidding.

I will give some credit to the host (husband, a cancer). We saw one boy, guessing age 10 or 11, pour a drink and my friend and I were about to intercept until we heard the husband holler at the kid to come here. Asked him if the kid got to keep the drink and he said "hell, no, he's not my kid and I'm not answering to his parents. That's their call, not mine". Kuddos for that at least.

Thanks. I appreciate that.

You have determined in your sole discretion that the young teenagers should not be wasted and that the parents are bad parents for permitting them to become so. You are therefore judgmental by definition. However, as your child was not wasted and theirs were, and your opinion of them is not based on their drinking, but their intoxication, the single beer you permitted your son to have, which he handled with grace and dignity, precludes you from being a hypocrite.

Information I have failed to observe is the inebriated/sober status of the parents, which could have some bearing on this discussion. You alluded they were drunk every weekend, but did not specifically address the evening in question. If they were sufficiently sober, then there is no justification for judging the degree to which they chose to permit their children to become intoxicated and you are right to be appalled at your judgmentalness. On the contrary, if the parents were wasted, then that is sufficiently irresponsible to justify your concern for the safety of the parents and children, assuming they had not arranged sober transportation or planned to stay the night. However, even if the parents intended to drive themselves and their children home, an obviously ill-advised action while intoxicated, you still could not think someone else's children should not be so intoxicated without simultaneously indicting yourself as judgmental.

Without full knowledge, a luxury we rarely enjoy, it is impossible to justly judge whether permitting the children to become wasted was irresponsible or not. In hind sight, 10 or 15 years from now, it may prove to have been quite wise. I compliment you on your ongoing effort to rid yourself of judgmental thoughts. It is a difficult achievement, but one well worth the effort.

Posted by djbuck1
"I feel guilty for being so judgemental because I'm trying to get rid of those negative, judgemental thoughts."

Why—?

What makes "judgmental thoughts" negative? That's the cant that the "situation ethics" crowd and the Relativists want us to buy into.

One of the reasons that our society is so thoroughly effed up is because people are abandoning their responsibility to make judgments.

If someone accuses you (in a perjorative way) of being "judgmental" and couples that with some attempted guilt trip about "You're not them," or "You're not perfect," or "You can't understand what it's like," what you are hearing is "Enable my behavior with silence."

Judgmental thoughts are always negative because they necessarily impair objectivity and presume false authority.

None of us is them, perfect, or truly able to know what it is like to be in anyone else's shoes. There is nothing wrong with sharing an alternative method you have observed work successfully before or pointing out that you've observed X/Y/Z fail rather spectacularly and consistently in the past. The problem occurs when you presume to speak with an authority you do not possess.

There is only one person whom any of us is fully equipped to judge: the owner of the eyes we see looking back at us in the mirror.

Posted by truecap
Over judgmental or a hippocrit?

The background: I went to a country people's gathering for New Years Eve. Well, it was probably more redneck than country folks. In a shop/garage, beer, open fire, football on TV, karaoke, young folks playing beer pong, etc.

Here's my question. There were teenagers there with their parents and two of them, age approximately 14ish, were so intoxicated by the end of the night, they couldn't even stand up. Now, I'm thinking what kind of parents are these to let kids that young drink that much? Actually, I was apalled. I let my son (a junior in high school) have one beer. ONE. I kept watch of him and made sure he did not over indulge or have more than the one, which he handled with grace and dignity.

Does it make me judgemental or hippocritical to think negative of those parents? I just thought it was irresponsible of them and actually pretty trashy/redneck.

Lets discuss.

definitely adhere to the laws of the country /use your own discretion as a parent. If the country's law says 16 years old, well what can you do if they go out and order alcohol at the bar? It's legal.
If it says 18, it says 18. Same as marriage laws, ect.

Teenagers will sneak around if you are TOO strict. If you're too lenient, it's also not good. I've read and seen how parents are so strict that the teenagers rebel because they can't stand it anymore.

this might happen:

Well what does one do in these circumstances

Be the best parent you could be if you dont want your kids to grow up like that dont be like that yourself and set a good example as to what you want for them and they will grow up like that.

As for allowing kids to drink to get drunk well I dont know some parents do it some parents dont I find that if the parents are allowing the kids to get drunk and run around and cause mayhem and just be irresponsible they usually never grow out of it and its not a good thing for the person themselves and also creates more disruption I have seen this happen.

Next you got parents who are really strict and this is not a good thing either its harsh when you are expected to be everything and not put foot wrong anywhere this causes the simular patterns like the drunk parents.

Yeh so allowing your son to have one beer if thats how you parent yourself is probably a good thing considering the alternatives.

Mind you if kids are going to drink they will drink and theres nothing you as a parent can do about it some kids grow up out that way of doing things and some dont I hope that one day people will realise its ok to be drunk its ok to do stuff but they will be strong enough in themselves to not go overboards, its this learning about things that takes the most time of all.

Like they will realise that its not for them anymore

Posted by mfwb55
Mind you if kids are going to drink they will drink and theres nothing you as a parent can do about it some kids grow up out that way of doing things and some dont I hope that one day people will realise its ok to be drunk its ok to do stuff but they will be strong enough in themselves to not go overboards, its this learning about things that takes the most time of all.

yeah but at 14 years old? i don't know any laws to allow 14 year olds to be so intoxicated that they fall drunk on their asses.

and plus, why aren't the authorities called if you find this suspicious behaviour? (to the OPs question)

would you be considered a noisy busy-body if you see children drunk as hell and can't walk and their parents allowed it?

i dont know...for me that kind of stuff is weird behaviour for parents to allow. But i've seen on TV that Amish communities allow their teenaged children to go off for a huge party fest so they get drunk and crazy. I dont know the specifics, but it's kind of like a wild and crazy thing before becoming "serious" in life. Sowing your seeds and stuff.

plus at pre-teen age, your brain isn't even... it's not moulded yet.

It's a tad bit judgmental, something we've all been guilty of on some occasion, but it's also sad that the other kids' parents allowed them to get wasted. I guess there's nothing you can do but keep focusing on how you raise your son because that's where you have the power and control to shape the next generation. Hang in there, mama, it's not an easy task!

No it's not an easy task. I just want to teach him everything in moderation. A drink is okay, drunk is not. I want him to learn to set limits and to be responsible. I don't want to ever feel its taboo so he has to sneak it and then go crazy wild. I don't want him to think drinking is a big deal so that he won't feel the need to binge on it. Though I'm not naive enough to think that won't happen when he goes to college.

The other parents at the party were intoxicated but not to the point where they couldn't control or monitor what their children were doing. The kids drinking that heavily had parents right there in the room with them and it was their house, so no one was going to be driving. I'm not sure what the law says, but I think it's along the lines that if its your house and you want to allow an underage person an alcoholic beverage you have that right as a parent. But only at home and not in public. I'm not sure that's what it says though.

I meant your own kid at your house, you can't be giving it to other people's kids.

Posted by truecap
No it's not an easy task. I just want to teach him everything in moderation. A drink is okay, drunk is not. I want him to learn to set limits and to be responsible. I don't want to ever feel its taboo so he has to sneak it and then go crazy wild. I don't want him to think drinking is a big deal so that he won't feel the need to binge on it. Though I'm not naive enough to think that won't happen when he goes to college.

The other parents at the party were intoxicated but not to the point where they couldn't control or monitor what their children were doing. The kids drinking that heavily had parents right there in the room with them and it was their house, so no one was going to be driving. I'm not sure what the law says, but I think it's along the lines that if its your house and you want to allow an underage person an alcoholic beverage you have that right as a parent. But only at home and not in public. I'm not sure that's what it says though.

that's good thinking. plus some boys do kind of turn out more or less nerdy and don't really care for drinking. Some turn out to enjoy sports and join men's clubs type of groups. You never know.