How much is too much?

When it comes to posting your "story" to ask questions... how much information is too much?

I just wrote a long story/question but before I posted it I backed out. I want advice but I am hesitant to put too much out there. I have tried to shorten the question but that changes even my response when reading it. The story spans many years of my life and is coming to a head right now. A quick paragraph or two makes it seem so trivial. On the other hand, I doubt most people would even make it through the "book" that I could write to ask my question.

Some of you have seen my other posts and will have an idea about it but it just got a lot weirder tonight and I am very confused.

How much is too much?

Okay, so I am trimming a lot of what I originally wrote (all the history)... I have the gift of gab.

My marriage of eight years ended a few months ago because my ex was unfaithful.

She has never been an emotional person much less a sentimental one. I am both. The break up got nasty fast, no matter what I did I could not keep the peace so I went cold. I stopped talking to her, except regarding the kids. I no longer call her for anything. I want her out of my life. I am over the loss of my wife.

In the past when things get nasty and I have chosen to leave a situation, I have always been able to just walk away and never have to see the person again. Feelings fade. People heal. You move on. What happens when you have to see the person?

The part that got weird tonight??_ she came over to pick up her computer. I had it taken apart and ready to go. I was cooking dinner. She came in and poked around. I wanted her to get her comp and go but I have to remain civilized. She was looking for an extra router and made her way into my bedroom??_ then to the closet. She sat down in the closet floor and started going through files. Some of the kids old stuff was in there and she started crying. I have only seen her cry a few times in my life and all but one of them have been during this break up when I set boundaries or when I told her I was done.

She started to get sentimental on me. WTF is up with that? Why didn't she just take her crap and go? When she started going through papers in the closet I told her to tell me what she was looking for and I would get it to her later. She said, —It's okay, I don't have anywhere to be??.

I am trying to be cold to her but I don't want to see her hurt. I could never take her back, I don't have any trust or respect left for her. Yes, I have told her this.

So now I have this woman acting like she is trying to hold onto something that she threw away??_ why?

Posted by coorkie
Have you guys ever gone to the bathroom with a tiger staring at you?

It was a rare... Almost spiritual experience....

I did have a monkey throw poo at my brother once. We were standing outside his pen at the zoo making noises at it. We were being jerks but it was hilarious. The monkey cam running up to the fence and swung his arms through. Then he ran up onto one of the branches in his area and crapped in his hand and threw it at my brother. It was one of the funniest things I have ever seen. Too bad the monkey had bad aim, that would have been great.

As far as i know yes.

The cheating wasn't like a one time thing though.

Here is a bit of that part.

Then in March, it all blew up. She cheated. She begged my forgiveness and said it was the worst mistake she ever made. I took her back and we decided we could get through this. I won't go into details over the next few months suffice to say it got way worse. She was unwilling or unable to —work?? on anything. Childhood issues arose, she started and quit counseling. She picked up a boyfriend and hid it for several weeks. Once I found out, I asked her to leave. Reluctantly, she did. The kids stayed with me and she is staying with her sister.



She told me at the time that she knew she was messing up and that she was being stupid but at the same time she was unwilling to stop. She seriously wanted to stay married to me and keep this dude on the side. Why would she get sentimental on me now when she moved out a few months ago...

The guy she cheated with is a joke too. No future, bad job, drug problems... just a joke. Her sister told her she was retarded to throw away her family for this clown. She knew what she was doing, why show regret now?

She is an Aquarius.

* So now I have this woman acting like she is trying to hold onto something that she threw away??_ why?

Because you guys had some good times and loved each other and had a whole life together and it is gone now. She is mourning the loss. She is also afraid for the future. With you, she knew what would happen and what to expect. Now she has an empty slate ahead of her and although it can be exciting, it can also be very, very scary.

Oh also, did she have much experience before meeting you? I know a lot of women tend to leave relationships around the 27-29 yr old mark because they regret settling down so young and want to try to live life on their own.

In a way, you have become her rock and her foundation. She wishes she could keep the stablity of your family life and still explore the world, but the two things don't really work together. Does that make sense? If not, I will try to clarify.

Then why do it in the first place?

She knew what was going on. I knew something was wrong but I trusted her. She had a one night stand that I took her back after. Wouldn't that be the time for reflection and the wtf did I do moments? A few weeks after that she picked up a boyfriend and things just got stupid crazy. She knew what she was doing... why cry to me about it now?

I am torn because part of me doesn't care she was crying tonight, at the same time... I don't want her to hurt. I thought women cried to each other. Why do it in front of me? She has never been someone to be overwhelmed by emotion.

Posted by little_sparrow
Oh also, did she have much experience before meeting you? I know a lot of women tend to leave relationships around the 27-29 yr old mark because they regret settling down so young and want to try to live life on their own.

In a way, you have become her rock and her foundation. She wishes she could keep the stablity of your family life and still explore the world, but the two things don't really work together. Does that make sense? If not, I will try to clarify.

Without being too rude... she had plenty of experience in her day. If anyone missed out on things it was me.

Posted by TasteOfChaos
Ah... so she is an Aqua!
That explains why you havent seen the bitch cry in the 8 years of marriage 😛

Well, its not normal for an Aqua to cheat.

When an aqua decides to leave its not out of the blue... she would have been giving you subtle hints through the course of the marriage that she was unhappy...

When things didnt change, she strayed (which is NOT an aqua trait) Aquas would rather be honest and TELL you they arent happy... unfortunately, by the time they TELL you they are unhappy... its too late!

They are fixed sign.

She obviously hasnt emotionally detached from the situation yet...

I am not convinced she ever emotionally attached...

She had a pretty rough childhood and never really let anyone get close to her... except me. She knew people but very few got to know her.

Some of what you say makes sense in this situation though. I have been thinking a lot lately and in talking with friends have come to a hypothesis. I think she came back to me when she did because she was scared. She was pregnant and had a baby. She had a rough future ahead of her. I took all of that in and was her safety. I think she tried the "married life" but I don't think she ever wanted it. She was afraid to raise two kids alone and she knew I loved her since high school.

what is her moon btw?

your wife grieves in a different rhythm than yours. Aquas are detached, but they're still extremely human. she may be crying herself, the shattered dreams, the inability to make it work, that you won't be together in the end, all this and more. she must have managed to hide and keep it within herself until she reached the closet (of memories). there must be things in herself that make her feel ..now well, not the way she would like to be in this marriage. her tears shouldn't scare you, not at all. real guts is for two human beings who loved each other and dreamed to guide each other out of this. to support each other, find a way out while acknowledging their story is ending. takes real guts, ppl are afraid of it, still, I find we should rise above our anger and resentment. we should guide each other out even better than we guided ourselves in. and take care of our souls. your wife is still the mother of your children, you can get them a better emotional life by doing this, and you heal yourselves in the process..

She showed up here crying at 4am this morning. She was afraid and wanted to hide her car in the garage. She sobbed to me and apologized for everything. When I remained distant she cried harder. She is sleeping on the couch right now. I am really confused.

We went outside to smoke and she cried more and said she "just wants to come home". I don't want her back. I still love her, she is the mother of my children and I have forgiven her for the hurt she caused me but I am no longer "in love". I will be here for her as a friend but I cannot give more.


-LisaLeo
You are correct in so many ways. I know she wasn't happy about something in the marriage or else she wouldn't have left. I have come to terms with that part of my life being over. We have been good friends for 15 years or so, I never thought it would end ugly like this so I am sure it hurts her too. As detached as she is I know she is still human. We all hurt, she showed this more tonight/this morning. However, her tears do frighten me. I cannot stand to see any woman cry... especially this one.

I'm so sorry LibraSid. My ex booked on the kids and I after 13 years. Yep, another woman. I know this is hard on you right now. Cheating is such a mess, it destroys families and lives for such truly selfish reasons. My only advice from the other side of divorce is to concentrate on yourself and the children. They kept me sane and focused. Get to know yourself inside and out. As a father, as a man. I wouldn't take my ex back either, he caused too much heartache all the way round.
Think of things as a business arrangement now, it sounds so cold, but it's not really.

This post is proof postive we need a drama queen board.

I think I'd have to agree with little_sparrow...

I mean she clearly had nothing against you, she wanted to have the cake and eat it too. With you she had nothing to complain about hence the autodestruction. I never thought that people who cheated on their s/o were doing it to hurt them. I always thought they did it because they felt trapped in life's everyday conundrum and by doing something such as (cheating, drug abuse, alcohol abuse,...) they know that they will get notice, they will get in trouble and dramatically change and shock their immediate environment.

I think that you did good to stick by your decision, because getting back with her won't help you lead a better life. I believe that it's the exact opposite, you will always have to worry that she isn't being faithful and honest with you. I mean who wants to be with someone they can't trust.

Until she deals with her demons there isn't much you can do about it!!

Hope this helps!!

Cheers!

I don't have her time of birth handy but here is the basic chart

Sun Aquarius 5.33
Moon Libra 7.21
Mercury Aquarius 21.29
Venus Capricorn 17.55
Mars Aquarius 20.15
Jupiter Libra 10.24 R
Saturn Libra 9.44 R
Uranus Scorpio 29.27
Neptune Sagittarius 23.54
Pluto Libra 24.22
Lilith Scorpio 3.01
Asc node Leo 10.53

awww Sid. That is shitty. I am not surprised that she came back crying.

Sometimes I think we don't know what we have until we really lose it. Plus, if she really had a tough, unstable childhood, she is conflicted between needing passion or stability in a relationship. Also, she doesn't trust herself on any front. Her ability to look after herself, her ability to make good decisions, her ability to attract love, etc.

Tough spot to be in for sure.

Librasid sorry to hear your in limbo in regards to your ex.
She needs counselling and although you have been a rock for her it is not enough to get rid of her demons.
Scorpsage made a valid part....most people do not cheat to hurt the other party,cheating sometimes can be a cry for help.
Your ex possibly didnt have a good relationship with her dad,so she really cant relate to men.
One night stands and various affairs shouts low self esteem.
I know the tears are getting to you but the only way you can help her is to get her to go and see a counselor......she needs to because she need to conquer her demons if she's going to be the best mom to the children.

Be strong.🙂

After the first one night stand when I forgave and was willing to work it out she did start counseling. She went for a little while but wasn't willing or able to deal with it and started going out drinking all the time. that's where she met this other guy. When I found out and called it quits she quit counseling although I offered to continue paying for it. I know she needs help and I am not the right one to provide it. I do hope she is able to change her circumstances and "face her demons" but it is up to her.

Also, thank you everyone for the input. I can tell that things are going to get weird around here.

Last night/this am... whatever... she kept saying how sorry she was for everything she did and that she just wanted to come home. The problem is that this is not her home anymore. I still care for her and don't know how to tell her no without her feeling like I am abandoning her too. I am the only person in her life that never gave up on her. I know that I was her rock but I cannot be it anymore.

This is a tough situation, this is someone youve known and trusted for 8 yrs then, bam, everything changes. I can imagine it's one of the hardest things to see her cry, but just keep in mind, you tried the best you could to help her, you have forgiven her (which is possibly the best thing you can do for yourself and for her), you offered to pay for her counceling, you let her sleep on your couch after all she has done to you. You are doing the right thing for her, by letting her go. It sounds like from what you described that she has some deep seated issues that she needs to resolve. If you are still around to be her rock, so to speak, she probably wont try and seek counceling or the help she truly needs.
She has to be WILLING to resolve this problem she is having on her own.

She is being selfish when she turns to you, I dont think its a power trip in this case, More of desperation out of not knowing where to turn. Though she is not intentionally trying to continue to hurt you, though she IS continuing to hurt you... Maybe taking a break from her and telling her "NO" when she asks to stay with you or speak with you about anything other than your children will help you to clear your head and look at things more objectively. I know this probably will not be easy for you, you seem to be a very sensitive and caring person and you like to take things subjectively, which is fine, I am the same way, but sometimes we have to learn to let go for the sake of OURSELVES.

"I am the only person in her life that never gave up on her."

That is why she was crying in your closet and on your couch. She is lost and broken. I think that all of the issues she faced in her past essentially came to a head. Now er head is spinning with the seemingly endless consequences and effects of not only her actions up to this point but her current desires and how the effects of those turning into actions. I think that is obviously longing for you to pick up and brush her off and comfort her in the way that only you has always done. The problem is that before this point she thought that she could provide that for herself so it would be ok to do what she did but realized after the fact that she needs you and her family for that.

You might want to consider telling her that if she needs someone to turn to she can call you, she can email or text you but you aren't friends and you aren't together anymore. You are simply someone with a unique knowledge and understanding of her that might be helpful.

I think I understand how you are feeling towards her. One one hand you have strong principles in an are that you will not be allowed to be exploited by anyone. On the other hand you are a caring and compassionate person who doesn't like to watch people suffer or leave them hanging in a time of need. I can appreciate your objectiveness and understanding about her, but it is ok to take this personally and act accordingly to her. So that she understands why your sticking to your guns so strongly and so that you can do what you need to do without being stuck being the one saving your attacker with a bleeding knife wound in your back.

Whetever what she did was personal or not is pretty much irrelevant in my book. Intentions are pretty unimportant when the consequences are so grave. Any human being with an iq above room temperature understands this and so for this reason to me it is personal.

FWIW if I were in your situation I would be keeping her at my desired distance by whatever means necessary. If that means replying to "I don't have anywhere to be anyway." With "Did all of the tweekers in town go impotent?" then that is what I would do.

In situations like this she has a right to whatever you allow her. Im afraid that unless she sees a mean side, she will use you until she does.

Oh...I just thought of something. This may seem cold and screwed up but please take it from someone with experience in what you are about to potentially face with the courts. And this changes what I just wrote a bit.

If you want to be there for her, if you want to do the dignified and humane thing with her...don't start until after the divorce is finalized. Whether you like it or not (primarily because of the nature of our court system itself) she is your adversary until you have won that battle and you need to look at it that way. After it is all over you can be best friends but she will try to take advantage of what you do now when the hearings come.

This was something that Angel and I had to deal with with her ex and their custody battle. Though he is a piece of shit, he is a human and she did spend several years with that person caring very much for him. Any attempt at doing the right thing on her part as a human being herself was twisted and exploited. I very much appreciated and still appreciate the strength she had to do that but at that time I several times felt the need to point out that until the case is done he is her enemy and she needs to be focused on winning. Especially when it comes to the custody issue. Think about the possibility of your kids hanging out with dude she has been screwing.

It's more important than what is going on with her as a person.

Angeleyes and Nicodemus, always a pleasure to read your advice 🙂
LibraSid all I can wish for you is to find the strength to detach from tears that scare you but still navigate those waters safely. I believe in help when it's needed, so I would keep my eyes open but still make it clear how I care for her. its hard to keep a balance. if the mother of your kids is in that state it affects her ability to being a good mom and the situation turns against you. on the other hand, even unwilling manipulation remains in the picture as you two know each other very well. try to keep a clear head and navigate out of this. after all this time you're practically relatives
its so sad how ppl force themselves out of each other's lives after being so intimately close. keep thinking and steering towards a ''positive'' way out, one that will make you content as a human being

Thank you all for the advice again. She and I talked for a long time this afternoon. I was there as a friend and let her talk about anything she needed to get off her chest. I feel for the situation she is in. She is still very hurt by her past and is not ready or willing to face it. I know that this is the cause of everything that has happened over the last few months. She knows it was all wrong and she does want to come back. In the end I gave her the divorce papers I received today and said that nothing happening right now will stop the divorce from happening. I told her I will be here as a friend and if she needs to talk she can come to me, but that she really needs to see her counselor again.

She has always admired that I can give sound advice to anyone and wanted my opinion on a lot of things. I told her that I would give honest answers regardless if her or I liked the particular answer, and I did. Many answers I gave I didn't like and I know she didn't like some.

Part of me knows I need to shut her out and make her face this thing she created... I just cannot do it. I told her that if she ever feels threatened she can come to me. If she needs a place for some quiet reflection she can come here (currently living with her sister and her kids doesn't allow peace or quiet). We have been friends for 15 years and married for 8.

I did however tell her that she cannot sleep here, ever. We are getting divorced and there will be no cohabitation. I also told her that 4am is no good, I have to work and support my family.

Nic, you are right on so many levels...
"On one hand you have strong principles in an are that you will not be allowed to be exploited by anyone. On the other hand you are a caring and compassionate person who doesn't like to watch people suffer or leave them hanging in a time of need."

This is exactly how I feel.

I feel like I am just rambling now...

My two cents....and I don't know if this is entirely true or not, but I'm going to deviate from the usual planetary evaluation and go off of what I have seen you say to me and others around here.
From what you've let on...you sound a lot like me when it comes to relationships. I think a big biological truth that a lot of us me (regardless of sign) seem to miss out on is that women usually cheat because they are no longer feeling "feminine" in their relationship because the man is no longer being masculine and taking control of things.
I know in the beginning of relationships, I am very confident and ambitious and take charge, but then I start to wonder how long it will be before the girl is going to walk out on me and I end up becoming submissive and just saying and doing whatever they want to hear to keep them happy. I stop believing in myself and start acting like a scared little boy..afraid to be abandoned and latch on too tight. Always expressing love...always agreeing to whatever...never making decisions and allowing her to. You know, that whole "nice guy" BS. And it always ends the same way, I get cheated on or left out of the clear blue and I'm left standing there thinking, what the f**k did I do to deserve this...? I treated her so good!
The problem is I stopped treated myself good and stopped being the male in the relationship.
People can deny the biology of our make-up all they want, but on a primal level...women want a man who will take charge and lead the way (not to be read as 'be an asshole'). This whole Libra indecisiveness doesn't help either. Female: Honey, what do you want to do? Male: I dont know, what do you want to do? or...Female: That shirt makes you look like a bum Male:Oh, well I guess I'll pick out another.
F**k that BS.
I think I'm telling you this more so I can tell myself because I these are things I need to change and if you're anything like me as you've let on...perhaps you can find some answers for yourself too.
Just my 2 cents.

Aqua women dont tend to desire marriage the way Librans do.
I learnt that from a close contact with an Aquarian teacher. She is single and does not desire the married life. It stifles her, and she has a libra male chasing her. Her way of showing 'love' is based on insults.

Unfortunately, that libra male does not understand she doesnt ever want to be married, and always presents her a ring and calls her a future wife. She keeps up the appearances just to appease him and show everyone else.

Most aqua women have problems in marriage, unless its to a virgo or a gemini.

She has said that she will never marry again. She said that I was the best person she has ever meet and if she couldn't make it work with me it wouldn't work with anyone. I laughed and told her not to get jaded from a failed relationship. Live, laugh, move on, and love again.

I am still very curious what her intentions were in coming to me the other night and then coming back and spending the evening with me.

Oh, and acrossTheGround... I have fallen into that "nice guy" pattern way too many times in my life including in this relationship. It does always end the way you described. It's a shame too but that's how it is. I am learning not to do it again.

Aqua women are like Aries in a way. They play alot on the image.

I have a Aqua sun/ Libra moon friend. I just recently cut her out of my life. She's very pretty, yes, but there's something about her that makes me feel like I'm under her bidding/control. I caught her out in a few lies to make herself seem perfect, and decided the friendship didnt mean much anymore.

I really hate the Aquarian reference to friendship like they know what they're talking about, and like its the highest thing in the world. All the Aqua females I know put friendship before romance. Romance doesnt mean butter to them. Friendship does.

And yet I dont even understand their meaning of friendship. They arent good friends by anymeans. I figured Aquarians are here to LEARN to be good friends, the same way Libras are here to LEARN to be good lovers. And I guess the theory fits.

And no, I wouldnt ever recommend Aqua women- Libra men relationships. Aquas think differently and they will INSIST you think the way they do. Mind control is their forte. But they can play the humanity/ friendship card and tone down their control freakishness, but they wont offer a Libra the type of love they ever desire.

"She has said that she will never marry again."

My Aqua teacher whom I loved and respected dearly married once and never did again as well. But she's happier with the single life, and I'm pretty sure she'll be miseravle and cuss her spouse everyday if she ever marries. She will cheat on him to prove that she is a free bird and no one can control her, especially not that "useless contract" of a marriage.

Posted by LibraSid



So now I have this woman acting like she is trying to hold onto something that she threw away??_ why?

She is starting to realize exactly the gravity of the situation she created, but it is too late to be even a friend; of course the tears make you want to reach out because you have a good heart and when you loved her, you loved her completely. Someone giving you a lot of emotional diarrhea after being empty and distant, its' just painful.

I am supposing it is that she has not matured and this is a last ditch effort to force you back in, mixed with an actual mounting portion of regret. I think if you didn't have kids it would not effect you so deeply, because you would have been able to go through with never seeing her again.

Posted by nicodemus
Oh...I just thought of something. This may seem cold and screwed up but please take it from someone with experience in what you are about to potentially face with the courts. And this changes what I just wrote a bit.

If you want to be there for her, if you want to do the dignified and humane thing with her...don't start until after the divorce is finalized. Whether you like it or not (primarily because of the nature of our court system itself) she is your adversary until you have won that battle and you need to look at it that way. After it is all over you can be best friends but she will try to take advantage of what you do now when the hearings come.

Especially when it comes to the custody issue. Think about the possibility of your kids hanging out with dude she has been screwing.

It's more important than what is going on with her as a person.

YOU are exactly on target.

Librasid: do not kiss her on the cheek or hug her until after the divorce is final. This is considered a reconcilation in some states. Afterwards show any affection you are comfortable with. Even texts, emails, or snail mail can come to play in court; even if it just says "hi, how is your day going?"

Be encouraged, it is bound to be better for you once it is final; the main focus is your kids emotional well being and your own. Your ex will have to sort this out herself.

Thanks again everyone. So much of what has been said here is spot on.

I have said this myself many times.

Posted by Flavia
I think if you didn't have kids it would not effect you so deeply, because you would have been able to go through with never seeing her again.

If not for the kids I would have cut her out of my life completely months ago. But since we have kids together she will never be out of my life entirely.

You can think of the kids as the love you once shared, instead of a liability towards your conections with her... you can lead a new life and the kids are their own person... they dont belong to you nor her, at least not after they grow up..

I didn't mean it as good or bad, just new. I have always been able to "cut and run" before. This time there are ties that neither of us could or would cut. Even after the kids are grown there will be weddings, grandkids, holidays, etc where her and I will see each other again.

I don't really view the kids as anything but my kids. She is their mother. They aren't a symbol of past love or anything. They are loved for being my children regardless of the rest.

Well, its not normal for an Aqua to cheat.
hehehehe... just caught that by accident. It is not normal for aqua to 'get caught' cheating from my experience but they do cheat as much as all other signs. Aquas as many fixed signs may consistently cheat and treat it as a separate entity from marriage or commitment. Fixed signs are finishers of the zodiac, no matter how unrealistic the venture may become midway through, they will not quit.


LibraSid, sorry to hear about your loss. It will get easier in time.... for both of you.
Hoping you'll both find something that you both deserve.

"Fixed signs are finishers of the zodiac, no matter how unrealistic the venture may become midway through, they will not quit." i.e. in marriages, they will not usually be the first one to end things...once they have committed to it, this presents a high element of security/loyalty marks.
Cardinal and Mutable can walk away quicker from situations, less security conscious.

I am even thinking the end of the marriage could hurt her fixed ego more than emotions as she is the main reason for the break up, hence the tears.
Or she is very confused, security shaken, etc...

This is just by the way, random musings... stay strong man!

I caught myself believing her words again instead of her actions. When she came over the other day it all sounded right. I knew there was no chance for reconciliation but I was hoping she was going to get herself back on track. I am convinced it was just words again. She has made no changes and doesn't intend to. I wash my hands of her. I cannot invest any more time or energy into a person who doesn't want to help them self.

It is interesting that you called out that she is unlikely to be the one to end things. Even after I got her to admit to the affair she still didn't want a divorce. I basically had to go file before she would accept that it was happening. She had moved out to live with her sister but was still talking about remaining married. Now she is in a bad relationship with her boyfriend and said she has tried to call it off but can't... she wants him to do it. She is a mess, I hope she finds whatever she is looking for.

First off, I'm so sorry. 😢
I know exactly what you're going through...it's hard to cut out someone you care so deeply for, especially when you feel like they need you most at that moment. She was obviously going through some personal issues when she betrayed you. But you really can't let her get away with what she has put you through, she will do it again, and you will feel like a fool.

As far as her coming around acting all emotional: this is an attempt to manipulate you into taking her back.
Sure, she may really regret what she has done (which she should,) but I think her intention in sharing these emotional scenes with you is to make you feel compassion for her and let her back in.
I've known other Aquas to do this...(including my own sister and father) they are emotional out of desperation, like a last resort to keep you around.

I'm glad to see you're sticking to your guns. Stay strong.

this thread is to much

shutup

lol...

seriously wat's up with that profile Rishi_L? What is it you are trying to say?

He posted that pic everywhere this morning. I think he just got bored.

hmmmm, to be that bored... what luxury

Boredom (or something) is causing me to throw out a couple things about an Aqua girl I know.

She's my Libra's ex-fiancee. Tracy and Jason were together seven years. I get the impression that they were more "friendly" than "romantic" and had a "good life" together, if not blazing hot sexy romance. They bought a house, furnished it well, lots of gadgets/electronics, lots of fun stuff like snowmobiles, quads, and nice vehicles. They both worked fulltime/overtime, and for years, opposite shifts - so lucky if they saw each other an hour a day, and actually sleep in the same bed at the same time perhaps once a week. They had different friends and rarely did anything together, except holidays or special occasions.

Tracy really DID value friendships more than romantic relationships... she took a cruise with her mother one time. Got ALL of her friends and favorite co-workers souvenirs/gifts, except for Jason, her fiance. In the beginning, Tracy talked about having kids someday, but Jason wasn't ready. Then when he was ready, she said she'd rather concentrate on her career and no longer wanted kids at all. He loved her so much he had blinders on, would not listen to a bad word about her. A year before the break up, his Mom went to Tracy's work. Someone asked Mom if she needed help. No, she was just seeing if her future daughter-in-law Tracy was at work yet. The woman said, "Oh! Then you're Randy's Mom, right?"... Mom stared at the woman and said, "No, I'm JASON'S Mom!" The woman's eyes got huge and she mumbled sorry and scurried away. When Mom went and told Jason what happened, he blew it off. Randy's just a coworker and a friend, there's no way Tracy would cheat, he said. It was just rumors and lies, gossipy women.

Weeks before the wedding, Tracy finally got the nerve to break it off, BAD scene. She kept the ring, though. Got a tiny apartment, but within two mos moved in with Randy, her 'secret' bf for 18+ mos. The breakup (and the wedding he'd paid for that never happened) financially DESTROYED Jason several years ago. She walked away clean from a life/home he simply could not maintain on only his income. He lost everything. She's still his ONLY ex that just will NOT speak to him or be his friend. Libras do like to stay friends with ex's!

Incidentally, Randy and Tracy got married three weeks ago. Jason admitted it hurt just a tiny bit, deep down, but that he was happy for her. But he'd say torture by Zulu warriors hurt him just a tiny bit. :/

I don't know Randy (and I don't know his Sign - maybe he's a Gemini?! lol) but maybe they're better-suited for each other.

I always wanted to ask Randy, esp starting a few months before the wedding... was he scared she'd pull a Runaway Bride on HIM? Would he find out she'd been boffing a coworker behind HIS back for a long time? You KNOW he must have been worried. heh

Posted by Nefer
Jason admitted it hurt just a tiny bit, deep down, but that he was happy for her. But he'd say torture by Zulu warriors hurt him just a tiny bit. :/

This made me smile. People have said things like this about me many times and I know years down the road I will look back on this and say I was fine all along. I had a buddy tell me the other day that he knows I will be okay, I always am. I take problems that most people wouldn't even be able to look at and I walk in smiling and everything turns out okay... we'll see.

When we first got together she already had two children. The vast majority of our relationship I have been the primary bread winner. She did work when I was in college but since our daughter was born five years ago she hasn't worked much at all. She always wanted to be a stay at home mom. All the debts where in my name and when she wanted to move across the country to be with her family it took everything we had. We sold everything we could, packed a van and moved from MD to TX. We moved and I went bankrupt (close to 3 years ago now). Since then I have busted my ass and have rebuilt our family finances. We bought a house about nine months ago. It is well furnished and we loved our gadgets too. Computer gaming, TVs, movies out the wazoo.

Friendship had always been one of our strongest points. We could and did talk for hours about anything and everything. We have been friends for 15 years... since high school. The other day when she came by we still talked and laughed together for hours. She still values the friendship but that is all that's left. I don't want it, not after all we have been through. I will remain civil and will keep communication open for the sake of the kids. But I cannot be a "friend" to a person I have no trust or respect for, someone with no honor.

In the past when a relationship ended I always disappeared for a while. Once I was healed I usually did make friends again. A few exes turned into really good friends that I still talk to. Not this time.

"But I cannot be a "friend" to a person I have no trust or respect for, someone with no honor."

Bullseye. You can be a moral and emotional compass for her if she wants it but she can't be a friend anymore. Friends may screw up, friends don't screw up YOUR life intentionally.

What you need to be doing at this point is keeping the communication open and thinking about her and her situations in terms of "is she acting in the best interrest of the children". If not you need to communicate that and insist that she does. If she doesn't you need to be documenting it, and you need to be documenting every conversation. It would be best to communicate to her through text (which you can then foreward to your own eamail) or email.

For now your relationship is business. The business of your kids. It can be business with a smile, but it is still business.

Aqualeo,

I make no claim to being a hero.

As to your questions.

1. First if you have made the choice to be with someone who had serious issues and you did nothing to encourage her development...

Yes I knew she had it rough. So did I. I dealt with y issues and feel that I am a well rounded person. When we first got back together she had recently made questionable decisions but nothing that screamed to me "Emotional wreck, run!". She has always been special to me and I took my chances. Ultimately, she is responsible for herself. Have you ever tried to force a druggie into rehab? I tried to keep communication open and trusted that if she had a problem she would come to me. I think that is reasonable.

2. Two, the Libra-Aqua dynamic haaahhhh too funny and yes its not perfect...

I can only imagine what she went through as well. Short of her communicating it to me there is no way for me to know. I am a "go with the flow" type person though, that we can say for sure.

3. Three, if you don't want her around what are you still doing with her?

I am not sure. I am loyal to a fault and when she came by the other day she was in trouble. The thought to shut her out didn't even cross my mind. I went right back into "protective" mode. I don't see how I am causing her pain though. By helping? As for this, "are you enjoying seeing her beg? does it feed your ego getting the attention from her and others?"... I don't consider anything that has happened begging. She showed remorse and regret, she needed security. I am not looking for any specific outcome from her. I came here to ask what she may be looking for because I can't figure it out this time. And yes the advice from random names on the internet feeds my ego like you couldn't imagine... that must be why I'm here. Really?

No relationship is perfect. She strayed so there was obviously some problem between the two of us. Maybe she didn't feel loved or needed or appreciated, who knows. What I do know is that rather than address a concern with me she looked outside the marriage. We both had a hand in the end of this relationship. Maybe it was something I didn't do, but it was definitely something she did.