Is the American dream overrated?

I would not like just a "yes" or "no". Give it some thought.
"Yes it is overrated because..."
No it is not overrated because..."

yes, it's fully overrated. ok there's a system in place but people slip through the cracks and they're not given a fuck about. there's no formula for success, people are not robots and what works for one won't work for another.

american dream-'one size fits all?' it's just about social control and those who can't live the american dream are held up as examples-'see what happens when you don't do it our way?'-instead of acknowledging the almighty flaws within the ideology.

and why encourage people to amass their own multi million dollar fortunes when there's enough money in the word, if distributed evenly, for everybody to live comfortably? they obviously want to maintain the gulf between rich and poor.

fuck capitalism -_-

Posted by XXMR2NICEXX
I would not like just a "yes" or "no". Give it some thought.
"Yes it is overrated because..."
No it is not overrated because..."

^^implying that its even real

Posted by nimbue
yes, it's fully overrated. ok there's a system in place but people slip through the cracks and they're not given a fuck about. there's no formula for success, people are not robots and what works for one won't work for another.

american dream-'one size fits all?' it's just about social control and those who can't live the american dream are held up as examples-'see what happens when you don't do it our way?'-instead of acknowledging the almighty flaws within the ideology.

and why encourage people to amass their own multi million dollar fortunes when there's enough money in the word, if distributed evenly, for everybody to live comfortably? they obviously want to maintain the gulf between rich and poor.

fuck capitalism -_-

so what you're proposing, is, socialism?

nty

Posted by westside

Posted by nimbue
yes, it's fully overrated. ok there's a system in place but people slip through the cracks and they're not given a fuck about. there's no formula for success, people are not robots and what works for one won't work for another.

american dream-'one size fits all?' it's just about social control and those who can't live the american dream are held up as examples-'see what happens when you don't do it our way?'-instead of acknowledging the almighty flaws within the ideology.

and why encourage people to amass their own multi million dollar fortunes when there's enough money in the word, if distributed evenly, for everybody to live comfortably? they obviously want to maintain the gulf between rich and poor.

fuck capitalism -_-

so what you're proposing, is, socialism?

nty

click to expand

nty=naughty?

i dunno. i think its a bit utopian, some halfway measure could work. again though, telling people how to behave and use their resources...who really should have that level of clout?

Posted by nimbue

Posted by westside

Posted by nimbue
yes, it's fully overrated. ok there's a system in place but people slip through the cracks and they're not given a fuck about. there's no formula for success, people are not robots and what works for one won't work for another.

american dream-'one size fits all?' it's just about social control and those who can't live the american dream are held up as examples-'see what happens when you don't do it our way?'-instead of acknowledging the almighty flaws within the ideology.

and why encourage people to amass their own multi million dollar fortunes when there's enough money in the word, if distributed evenly, for everybody to live comfortably? they obviously want to maintain the gulf between rich and poor.

fuck capitalism -_-

so what you're proposing, is, socialism?

nty

nty=naughty?

i dunno. i think its a bit utopian, some halfway measure could work. again though, telling people how to behave and use their resources...who really should have that level of clout?

click to expand

nty=no thank you

i know it sounds good, but all socialists have the same arguement that you do, but it all ends in disaster every single time. and that is after it kills hundreds of thousands of people and further scars the earth.

one of those ones that sound better on the tin...

then again, capitalist societies kill thousands and scar the earth too. it's more covert and it happens through blitzing resources, deprivation, alienation, crime, etc. like a prolonged disaster, instead of the immediate fallout of socialism. besides, the world's never seen what socialism can do, it's never been implemented in the key societies that would probably benefit from it the most; and that's the case because whatever serves the interests of capitalism best takes priority.

still on the fence though, i think both options are too extreme.

Posted by nimbue
one of those ones that sound better on the tin...

then again, capitalist societies kill thousands and scar the earth too. it's more covert and it happens through blitzing resources, deprivation, alienation, crime, etc. like a prolonged disaster, instead of the immediate fallout of socialism. besides, the world's never seen what socialism can do, it's never been implemented in the key societies that would probably benefit from it the most; and that's the case because whatever serves the interests of capitalism best takes priority.

still on the fence though, i think both options are too extreme.

"
then again, capitalist societies kill thousands and scar the earth too. it's more covert and it happens through blitzing resources, deprivation, alienation, crime, etc. like a prolonged disaster, instead of the immediate fallout of socialism. "

those problems do not stem directly from capitalism. and like socialism, pure capitalism is not perfect either.

" the world's never seen what socialism can do, it's never been implemented in the key societies that would probably benefit from it the most; and that's the case because whatever serves the interests of capitalism best takes priority."


thats the exact same arguement these nazis in washington use when socialism comes up(which fools some people into believing it, when i reality it is false on all levels). every time socialism has been implemented, it did exactly what the central planners made it to do. what you're really saying is 'socialism is great in theory, but when it is actually implemented(in the past), then not so much'. the idea of "utopia"(no place), is an idea that is heaven, but it will never occur because pure socialism is simply impossible. and a half and half of socialism/capitalism(what america has now) is even worse.

since you live in the UK im not so worried about it, but there are protesters at wallstreet who think socialism is right too, and i've had many conversations with people who agree that the problem here is that people need to be educated. you only have to look at the past 100 years to see the history of socialism and what it really is.

it can be a dream for some people from other poor countries and make something worth it for themselves.

@westside

fwiw, there's an anti capitalism protest camp outside st. paul's cathedral right now.

what you're really saying is 'socialism is great in theory, but when it is actually implemented(in the past), then not so much'.

yeah that's exactly what i'm saying. most political regimes are great in theory, but when practised...not so much.

and the problems i mentioned are a direct result of capitalism, esp crime & blitzing resources. supply and demand is overextended, to hit market target and then the surplus is wasted. there's a culture of excess directly linked to capitalism-accquring economic wealth through the exploitation of others.

disadvantaged groups who work for a minimum wage, can't make ends meet and then suddenly options like petty theft or fraud become increasingly attractive.

"
and the problems i mentioned are a direct result of capitalism, esp crime & blitzing resources. supply and demand is overextended, to hit market target and then the surplus is wasted. there's a culture of excess directly linked to capitalism-accquring economic wealth through the exploitation of others."

if you think the crime capitalism produces is bad, then you need to look at history of socialism.

"supply and demand is overextended, to hit market target and then the surplus is wasted."

thank you for defining socialism(the biggest killer is through starvation, not through dictorial planners).

kim jon ils socialism would be a great place to start learning at.

btw, you're looking at america as what capitalism is, then thats where the problem lies. america has not been pure capitalism for a while now, but people want real capitalism back(wallstreet protest).

i'm not gunning for socialism or capitalism

the point is they're all 'bad', or unsuitable because the very basis of politics dictates that one group of people hold the decisions over another, the latter group is larger; yet are ruled by people who don't even represent their needs.

majority rules with politics, which in itself is bullshit. what about minority groups? politics isn't individualised enough, the theme is herd the flock, and nor can it ever be if it's going to continue relying on old structures to direct the contemporary world.

nouveau, nouveau

Posted by nimbue
i'm not gunning for socialism or capitalism

the point is they're all 'bad', or unsuitable because the very basis of politics dictates that one group of people hold the decisions over another, the latter group is larger; yet are ruled by people who don't even represent their needs.

majority rules with politics, which in itself is bullshit. what about minority groups? politics isn't individualised enough, the theme is herd the flock, and nor can it ever be if it's going to continue relying on old structures to direct the contemporary world.

nouveau, nouveau

so what you're gunning for is democracy. TRUE democracy, that is. that is what i like to hear.

Posted by westside
btw, you're looking at america as what capitalism is, then thats where the problem lies. america has not been pure capitalism for a while now, but people want real capitalism back(wallstreet protest).

over here, the protests are anti capitalist

in the states, the occupy wall street protest are against greed and corruption, there's no one political persuasion they are against. in fact, their argument sounds like mine:

'Occupy Wall Street is leaderless resistance movement with people of many colors, genders and political persuasions. The one thing we all have in common is that We Are The 99% that will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1% . We are using the revolutionary Arab Spring tactic to achieve our ends and encourage the use of nonviolence to maximize the safety of all participants.

This #ows movement empowers real people to create real change from the bottom up. We want to see a general assembly in every backyard, on every street corner because we don't need Wall Street and we don't need politicians to build a better society.' http://occupywallst.org/

Posted by westside

Posted by nimbue
i'm not gunning for socialism or capitalism

the point is they're all 'bad', or unsuitable because the very basis of politics dictates that one group of people hold the decisions over another, the latter group is larger; yet are ruled by people who don't even represent their needs.

majority rules with politics, which in itself is bullshit. what about minority groups? politics isn't individualised enough, the theme is herd the flock, and nor can it ever be if it's going to continue relying on old structures to direct the contemporary world.

nouveau, nouveau

so what you're gunning for is democracy. TRUE democracy, that is. that is what i like to hear.

click to expand

yup, defo 😄

i believe it will happen, too.

One thing I don't get about americans is why you have to own a mansion & a garage with two jeeps in order to be considered successful. I guess having two cars makes sense if you're a working class family because the public transportation system suck in the states, or so I've heard, but everyone wants a huge house -- I mean just keeping that place clean (unless you have a maid) is a full time job!

I've seen this in the news and 'reality shows' like Extreme Home Makeover -- people bitching and crying about not being able to pay the rent and stuff... MOVE INTO A FUCKING APARTMENT and live like a king! Why is that never an option? I mean there are apartments outside of New York, aren't there? And get a second-hand car or something. Never ever loan money you do not have! That's my recipe for success.

I'm a single guy, I live in an one-room-plus-kitchen apartment. I don't own a car, I never felt like I needed one because the public transportation system is much smother than the traffic! Besides, owning a car always means extra taxes and expences. I don't make a lot of money, I have an average salary yet I feel rich somehow -- because I don't own a bunch of stuff that end up owning me.

When I get a family of my own "we" will probably not buy a house but move into a big apartment. Makes much more sense if you want to get more out of life rather than just paying for the rent and waiting for the next month's paycheck. I don't care how much I make in the future, I just like to keep things at their minimum. That way I know where everything is and everything knows where I am lol.

PERHAPS GADDAFIS THIRD UNIVERSAL THEORY IS THE ANSWER HMMMMMM