Nag, nAG, naG, NAg...

When my girlfriends have issues, there's a mutual and inherent understanding that the advice given won't be followed. It's not that the advice is bad or that the suggestions go unheard, it's that women are stubborn and many of us courageously embrace stupidity. Take the traditional scenario...

Your girlfriend is bitching about some "man" she's dating. She thinks he's cheating. He doesn't call as much anymore. They haven't seen each other in days...weeks...months, and yet, this bitch is "in love" and is seeking your approval for more asinine behavior.



How do I get him back?

Who? The asshole who forgot your birthday, didn't call Valentine's Day, used your car to take some stankassbitch to the movies, won't spend a dime on you, calls you names and has all but told you "he's not that into you?" That guy?

Yeh. I love him. I know I shouldn't. I know he has good in him though. We're DESTINED to be together. He's my soulmate.

Girl, I hate to see you hurting but here's what you should do...



Women can spend lifetimes discussing repetitive drama. We bolster one another's "I love him" convictions while simultaneously suggesting and urging that we MOVE THE FUCK ON!!! But no matter how sane the advice, the bitch will stay, she will endure the drama, the pain and degradation, and a "good" friend will be there to pick up the pieces.

In the end, "I told you so" doesn't quiet convey the finale but hey, no need to rub it in. She knew what you knew all along and when the dust settles, there we stand, sister-to-sister, arm-in-arm, poised and ready to battle the next wave of "Why doesn't he..."

continued...

truth.

I have nothing else to say.

I don't take their advice, they don't take mine. It's pointless actually

Why are men different? Have you ever dealt with a man who's "going through some shit?" Whether it's daddy, uncle, brother or the guy who makes your toes curl, advice from woman-to-man is an assault on the male's identity and self-worth. What is perceived as advice and concern by our female counterparts is often construed as nagging, condescension and mothering by men.

"Baby you should..." is a death nail when it befalls our lips.

It doesn't matter if your advice is sound, it doesn't matter if you've stood by his side when others have drifted away. Somehow, some way, genuine concern turns into something vile and dirty in a man's eyes...especially if you're right.

When a man doesn't take your advice and events transpire in such a way that everything culminates into an unspoken, "I told you so," his demeanor changes. He begins to pull away.

"She was right" doesn't set so well with them. It's an assault to their masculine identity. If she's right, if he played the fool, he begins to wonder how "manly" she perceives him. Gradually, he comes to resent her sound advice. Again, it doesn't matter if she's right, his sex-kitten has been transfigured into a matronly nag. So he pushes away, he bites back, he begins behaving like an angry teenager.

Long story short, I wonder how men advise other men? Where women sit, talk and bitch REPETITIVELY, men clearly don't. Where women can mull over the same crap as if it's brand new, men perceive this as an ongoing assault.

So the question's are...


When men have issues and consult their man friends, how do these conversation go down? How is talking to a male friend about drama different than a female friend?


How does a woman impart suggestions or advice to a man without it being received negatively?


How do we learn to speak the same language in a way that "I think you should" doesn't become an ill-received "I told you so?"

Posted by brianafay
truth.

I have nothing else to say.

I don't take their advice, they don't take mine. It's pointless actually

fyi

"continued" generally means there's more to come and therefore...WAIT! impatient fire sign bitch!

Posted by caligula

Posted by brianafay
truth.

I have nothing else to say.

I don't take their advice, they don't take mine. It's pointless actually

fyi

"continued" generally means there's more to come and therefore...WAIT! impatient fire sign bitch!

click to expand

lol

I don't think men really give each other advice tbh. I could be wrong *waiting for a man to come in here*

I think they more just empathize with eachother, like yeah man that sucks, etc.

Posted by brianafay
I don't think men really give each other advice tbh. I could be wrong *waiting for a man to come in here*

I think they more just empathize with eachother, like yeah man that sucks, etc.

yeah, i don't know either and i guess that's what i'm trying to figure out. you typically don't see men sitting on the phone for hours talking about the same shit they spoke about earlier in the week...and the week before...and the week before.

i was at work the other day and went into the break room to make some tea. there were 3 guys standing around talking. while i was making the tea, i start to realize they're talking about "love" so i turned and said, "are yall talking about relationships? i mean, the one dude who had started the convo (i guess) was going on and on about how it hurts to be so deeply in love and what not and i'm sitting there like what the fuck? really? i didn't know yall talked about this shit.

point being, boys are weird and there has to be a "right" way to communicate with them without coming across as a controlling, nagging bitch. ie, if i ever have to say "can you please take out the trash," it's the beginning of the end.

male psychos are women in drag

psychologists that is

hmmm...i envision your extended family living in an area where shoes are optional.

yes...that was mean 😛

i apologize. i therefore envision your extended family living in an area where running water is a luxury, bedpans are sold by the dozen and wood stoves are common place.

nope...not the pisces...not specific to any sign. i just notice that men, no matter how they are "related" to you, hate it when you're right. maybe the issue is, i'm always right? god i hate that!

Posted by ellessque
men don't want to feel useless. when we prove them wrong they feel useless.

don't prove them wrong all the time. step back and let them figure it out. even if it takes a bit longer and you have to sit on your hands. they need that to feel productive and of some kind of worth.

Haha, we're not children. You don't have to protect our fragile egos. We get shit wrong all the time, that's not the problem. Hell, when I do something stupid my guy friends will bust my chops about it for yeas. We can be wrong and we can laugh at ourselves for it. If I'm doing something wrong, tell me... just don't be a bitch about it.

If past stupidity is brought up, it cannot be in a "you always do it wrong" or an

Posted by caligula
i'm always right? god i hate that!

click to expand

kind of way. I don't have a problem being wrong (it happens to the best of us). I have a problem with someone trying to make me feel stupid about a mistake or trying to make themselves superior. Man or woman, if I feel you're trying to "one up" me... well I ain't going down quietly.

Remember guys are extremely competitive. If you don't want advice/suggestions to start arguments, make sure the guy knows you are on his side. We can take constructive criticism and friendly advice. We don't take trash talking from the opponent.

Life is about responses and perspective.

you are on the wrong track I just heard Q say for the 1,000 time to me shut the fuck up he gives me advice all the time

it's not about trash talking or emasculating. i ain't stupid...sheesh.

even when trying to be the diplomat, even when trying to frame it in a "maybe you should try" stance rather than, "do this," it invariably leads to push back if the "maybe" offered months ago turns out to be the "right" course of action.

from my perspective, it's not so much the advice, it's when the advice turns out to be right. ie...


couple is traveling to nebraska...where the wife used to live and the husband has never been.

wife: honey, i think we should go this way, it's quicker.

husband: yeah, let's go this way. i've already plotted it out.

the wife explains it would best, husband disagrees, husband goes his way.

couple arrives late.

uncle ted: did you guys take the bend or did you come from round yonder?

husband: round yonder. the map said...

uncle ted: well you should've gone over the bend cause round yonder is waaaaaaay out there.



in the end, the husband knows the wife was right but invariably feels like a dumbass for not doing as she suggested. if you pile up enough of these incidences up, over time, wifey is right, hubby is wrong. simply by being right, she negates him and can make a proud man feel like a complete shit.

and my point is, two men can have a spat/disagreement about what route to take and it's all gravy.

but when a woman asserts, when a woman disagrees with a course of action...and she turns out to be right, it doesn't always seem to go over so well.

maybe this is more a problem with men who have a "traditional" view of female-male dynamic?

Posted by Claire

When a man gets off his arse and does something, he doesn't feel useless does he?!! Why should we feel it's our responsibility to coddle men to that extent? Just because we give ourselves the incentive to do useful things and may have picked a guy (i'm not implying all guys are like this btw) that would rather not? Because trust me, alot of men (not all) will manipulate you without a second thought into doing more for them so they can get out of it so they should pick up their own damn useless pieces right?? Boo hoo. You wanna feel useful?? Then do something! 😛

so you're a bitch too? AWESOME!

i agree. i feel like there are women who "play" doormat well. these are the ignant, mousey bitches who sit idly by while hubby casually drives off a cliff. as they sit amongst the wreckage, bloody, bruised and disfigured, they're the bitches that quickly grab a kerchief, spit on it gingerly then dab at his wounds while saying..."baby, you're such a wonderful driver...lord only knows why they put that cliff there."


i just ain't that bitch. i'm not going to beat the shit out of his ass and forcefully take the wheel but i'll be damn if i don't speak up and say "hey fucker! there's a cliff...you want to not kill us?"

My Leeb takes my advice a lot more than he used. He's slowly catching on.

But I just mention things like if it were me, I'd do this. I don't suggest he do it, just suggest that it might make sense to do it, if he were someone else? Lol

It's the only way. If I try to give him advice, or give my opinion about something he digs his heels in and goes the opposite direction. It's so annoying.

Posted by caligula
in the end, the husband knows the wife was right but invariably feels like a dumbass for not doing as she suggested. if you pile up enough of these incidences up, over time, wifey is right, hubby is wrong. simply by being right, she negates him and can make a proud man feel like a complete shit.

Her being right isn't what's going to make him feel like shit.

Ok, so they are at uncle Ted's place now and hubby just found out he should have listened... now what? Does wifey say "See! You should have listened to me?" or does she give him a quick hip to hip hug, pinch/slap his ass and/or kiss his cheek and let it go? Remember, it's all about responses. The fact that he ignored her advice about her hometown (which he's never seen) tells me she shoves it in his face...

Posted by caligula

Posted by Claire

When a man gets off his arse and does something, he doesn't feel useless does he?!! Why should we feel it's our responsibility to coddle men to that extent? Just because we give ourselves the incentive to do useful things and may have picked a guy (i'm not implying all guys are like this btw) that would rather not? Because trust me, alot of men (not all) will manipulate you without a second thought into doing more for them so they can get out of it so they should pick up their own damn useless pieces right?? Boo hoo. You wanna feel useful?? Then do something! 😛

so you're a bitch too? AWESOME!

i agree. i feel like there are women who "play" doormat well. these are the ignant, mousey bitches who sit idly by while hubby casually drives off a cliff. as they sit amongst the wreckage, bloody, bruised and disfigured, they're the bitches that quickly grab a kerchief, spit on it gingerly then dab at his wounds while saying..."baby, you're such a wonderful driver...lord only knows why they put that cliff there."


i just ain't that bitch. i'm not going to beat the shit out of his ass and forcefully take the wheel but i'll be damn if i don't speak up and say "hey fucker! there's a cliff...you want to not kill us?"

click to expand

Lol!

A while ago I was riding along with the Leeb on a repo he was looking for. He was checking this address out in fucking Botswana, I swear. I was scared we were gonna get shot.

Anywayssss, the address came back to a mail box that was in front of an orange grove...no house. He was gonna give up and go home. But across the street there were houses... so I was like hey! turn down that drive, I bet it's one of those houses. They put mailboxes on the other side of the street all the time - it's not that uncommon. He's all "haha would you let me do my job please?" I was like okay, whatever, I'm just saying those houses don't have mailboxes...it's one of those houses, go check the address. He's laughing at me and mocking me like "Bri, the recovery agent of the year, subject matter expert." I shrug...tell him nicely, it's worth a try. He says whatever, pulls down the street.
GUESS WHERE THE CAR WAS? hmmm that's weird. Where I said. Haha

I didn't say a fucking word.
He just looked over at me, smirked and said "shut up."

😛

Posted by LibraSid

Posted by caligula
in the end, the husband knows the wife was right but invariably feels like a dumbass for not doing as she suggested. if you pile up enough of these incidences up, over time, wifey is right, hubby is wrong. simply by being right, she negates him and can make a proud man feel like a complete shit.

Her being right isn't what's going to make him feel like shit.

Ok, so they are at uncle Ted's place now and hubby just found out he should have listened... now what? Does wifey say "See! You should have listened to me?" or does she give him a quick hip to hip hug, pinch/slap his ass and/or kiss his cheek and let it go? Remember, it's all about responses. The fact that he ignored her advice about her hometown (which he's never seen) tells me she shoves it in his face...

click to expand

mr.awesome.facial.hair...

stop ASSuming that the wife is doing something wrong.

maybe while hubby and uncle ted are discussing the merits of going over the bed, wifey is in the other room sittin a spell.

the issue is that by simply being right...over and over and over again...this translates into being told what to do. it translates into a matronly posture when in reality, she is merely offering a suggestion/having an opinion.

yes, you should allow another person to make their own mistakes, yes, you should pick and choose your battles but some men seem to prefer the bitch holding the gas can and a pack of matches to the one with the baking soda and a stop sign.

Posted by brianafay
A while ago I was riding along with the Leeb on a repo he was looking for. He was checking this address out in fucking Botswana, I swear. I was scared we were gonna get shot.

Anywayssss, the address came back to a mail box that was in front of an orange grove...no house. He was gonna give up and go home. But across the street there were houses... so I was like hey! turn down that drive, I bet it's one of those houses. They put mailboxes on the other side of the street all the time - it's not that uncommon. He's all "haha would you let me do my job please?" I was like okay, whatever, I'm just saying those houses don't have mailboxes...it's one of those houses, go check the address. He's laughing at me and mocking me like "Bri, the recovery agent of the year, subject matter expert." I shrug...tell him nicely, it's worth a try. He says whatever, pulls down the street.
GUESS WHERE THE CAR WAS? hmmm that's weird. Where I said. Haha

I didn't say a fucking word.
He just looked over at me, smirked and said "shut up."

😛

^that's what i mean.

it's not anything intentional. it's not a "see, you're a dumb bitch...where's your dick now—" response. i mean, we don't necessarily KNOW we're right but if we turn out to be right...repeatedly, why does it invariably lead to a sense that his manhood has been challenged/questioned in some way?

i usually have this problem with air and fire signs. they're all bastards.

Posted by caligula

Posted by brianafay
I didn't say a fucking word.
He just looked over at me, smirked and said "shut up."

😛

^that's what i mean.

it's not anything intentional. it's not a "see, you're a dumb bitch...where's your dick now—" response. i mean, we don't necessarily KNOW we're right but if we turn out to be right...repeatedly, why does it invariably lead to a sense that his manhood has been challenged/questioned in some way?

i usually have this problem with air and fire signs. they're all bastards.

click to expand

Her response is what I'm suggesting though. And she already said he's getting better about listening too. His smirk means he acknowledged he was wrong and should have listened. Her not rubbing it in will help with him being wrong next time.

Posted by caligula

Posted by LibraSid

Posted by caligula
in the end, the husband knows the wife was right but invariably feels like a dumbass for not doing as she suggested. if you pile up enough of these incidences up, over time, wifey is right, hubby is wrong. simply by being right, she negates him and can make a proud man feel like a complete shit.

Her being right isn't what's going to make him feel like shit.

Ok, so they are at uncle Ted's place now and hubby just found out he should have listened... now what? Does wifey say "See! You should have listened to me?" or does she give him a quick hip to hip hug, pinch/slap his ass and/or kiss his cheek and let it go? Remember, it's all about responses. The fact that he ignored her advice about her hometown (which he's never seen) tells me she shoves it in his face...

mr.awesome.facial.hair...

stop ASSuming that the wife is doing something wrong.

maybe while hubby and uncle ted are discussing the merits of going over the bed, wifey is in the other room sittin a spell.

the issue is that by simply being right...over and over and over again...this translates into being told what to do. it translates into a matronly posture when in reality, she is merely offering a suggestion/having an opinion.

yes, you should allow another person to make their own mistakes, yes, you should pick and choose your battles but some men seem to prefer the bitch holding the gas can and a pack of matches to the one with the baking soda and a stop sign.

click to expand

It is entirely possible that hubby is just an asshole. You can't change that though so I was assuming the possibility that could be corrected.

Posted by ellessque
It's really all about delivery.

I've been told more than once by someone that I make them feel "useless". I'm not sure how anyone equates that as doormat. I just prefer doing things myself. However, I've learned to not want to control everything. Just because you see the cliff 100 miles up the road doesn't mean you have to warn him about it...he's a big boy and probably also sees it.

YOU'RE IN THE CARE YOU DIPSHIT!

AND IN THE CAR TOO!

maybe i was a lesbian in a former life?

boys are stupid.



and i agree, most "men" are assholes and as i said, i think it's more of an issue with men who have a "traditional" approach to dealing with women. even if a man isn't a straight chauvinist, he may have a cultural/personal outlook that makes his being wrong with respect to a woman (his woman), a defeat/personal deficit.

i think a lot of households go to pot this way. say hubby loses his job and where he was traditionally the bread winner and could spend his money when/how he wanted, now, with wifey being the sole source of income, he feels a bit emasculated.

well, now that she's under pressure, she might begin saying things like, "sweety, maybe we shouldn't buy this/that." this doesn't translate into, "get your hands out of my purse you no-job-having-dead-beat-broke-ass-bastard!!!" but that's how he feels.

this dynamic, if it continues can lead to a man feeling worthless even if his woman isn't exactly doing/saying anything in that vein. simply by having a job and holding it down, she's got his nuts in her purse.

Posted by ellessque
lol @ your typo

yes, I am in the car, but so is he and he's driving. so it's likely he also sees the cliff. i have to trust he sees the cliff. just as if i were driving, he'd have to trust me that i saw the cliff.

give up some of that damn control you are clenching.

let me get that domestic abuse hotline number for you...

Posted by Television

this whole thread sounds like Nag Nag Nag to me.

where's this said "cliff" I wanna drive off of it.

^air sign = ASSHOLE

nah, i think her level of stupid needs a colorless ass whooopin.

no, as our opposites, you don't "play" at it.

and it's not about control. you clearly don't read words too good.

Posted by ellessque
it is about control. you need to tell him about the cliff a hundred miles before hand over and over again like a fucking annoying parrot. Even though it's been covered on the road map and with the sufficient amount of signs on the highway.

if someone is wrong or in error, why not let them be? isn't that how someone learns? you are not his teacher. unless you get off on that shit, but leave that for the bedroom.

still dont read for shit do you?

THE CLIFF IS RIGHT THERE!!!! it's coming. your ass sits there silently like a mute titless idiotic bitch as the two of you go down in flames.

on a interracial dating and unrelated level, your mentality is what some men seek and i guess if some men want someone that they can walk over, shit and spat upon, it's no wonder...

well, the saying is if you roll around with dogs...

you make me itchy

Okay, I got the pool ready. Ladies get your white tank tops and let's settle this the old fashioned way... Jello Wrestling!

Caligula: This is an apple.


other people: I see an apple too but there's more...


Elle: hey look, an orange.


Caligula: You dirty bitch this is an apple!


The solution is clear...

CAT FIGHT!!!!!!!!

look dumbassbitch, unlike you who has clearly said "honey you're wrong" on at least TWO occasions too many, it aint got a damn thing to do with the horseshit you're slingin.

either follow along or shut the fuck up.

Great topic Caligula!

Men and Women are the same, and then again the rules and way we are portrayed in society doesn't add up with that AT ALL.

Yeah when we are among our own, Men amongst men, Women amongst women we do these things that we wouldn't ordinarily do if we were in a fairer mix of people. We can be more Whiny, more Sexist (of any kind), more Vicious about the other sex, and we dole out advice to each other.

I like the way Caligula addressed it from a really REAL perspective.

I fell I am in the guys locker room shaking my head constantly at what guys say to each other, like it's some kinda macho fest of lies about how each is taking care of things so tough and manly, when in reality it can be further from the truth and the woman in question is actually the REAL one taking ownership of so much that it begs to question, are men stepping up to what they can do and can be in this world.

I understand a fair amount of macho acting has to be done amongst men. Heck I am an Aries, and believe me I think my Ego is a walking breathing person, and not me, at times. But in all honestly when relationships come to mind or whatever, I question if we wouldn't be better off oppressed by women in all ways, where men were second-class citizens. Maybe we would be more humble and nurturing at home.

Whatever. Maybe I am rambling about all this and will stop, but I definitely think especially in America, the topic of what Men say and do amongst each other, and what Women say amongst each other is crucial to bringing to light what living as a man and living as a woman is really like in this world. It is a sorta key way of testing if a all male government staff room is the right thing or not, if we should vote for so and so, if we should be saying what we say about women or men in society.

Just had to say my Kudos for an interesting topic post.

thank you much.

at least you understood the topic...unlike someone with a rusty stinger.

i too believe women should run the world and men should be kept on leashes but that's another thread.

overall, i have been around male friends when they talk about their woes but it's generally very superficial. when one of them starts to get too deep into a topic, there's a deflection of some sort. either the guy with the woe checks himself or one of the other guys will say something dismissive..."yeah, that's messed up. smoke this."

i guess i'm just trying to figure out why we are so opposed in terms of how we communicate. men don't talk like bitches so that begs the question, when do men talk?...i mean really, truly talk (about something other than ass and money)?

who are you?

ahh...i've never liked you

KOL?

i dont know what that is and don't care.

i'm on my period and i hate everybody so no, not a good time to tempt my Mars today. i could beat an old lady and smack a baby given the mood i'm in.

your little friend wants to fuck babies and grandmas.

i dont think i want to talk to it. it's insane.

you were told to crawl up under a sorry man's shit encrusted hairy ass a page prior so really? still talkin?

toc, you can crawl up a hairy, shitty ass if you want to as well. ask the scorp for directions.

i already told you i was tired heffer.

and no, no sleep yet. waiting on Catfish and DBZ Kai aires a "new" episode tonight.

no!

dbz is on and catfish...ta!

It's how the advice is delivered and whether or not I asked for it. If I respect the woman then I'll respect her advice.

Also, your 1st example regarding female friends is something that guys get too from other dumbass men but we just avoid it. It's really not important (according to most men) and he'll learn his lesson anyway eventually so why waste my energy? But more important issues; career, death, sports are addressed. To a point I might add. I'll say my piece once and leave it. If he keeps bringing it up, I know he's not going to listen anyway (since he didn't the first time) so why bother? Again, preserving precious energy.

I tend to go to my family or really close friends or a woman I respect & love for big issues. I'm talking, major life stuff not 'does she like me?' crap. I already know that answer. She does too except she prefers to respond to her desires rather than the facts. She wants him to like her so she goes on & on. We see what we can get out of the deal (a boobie prize? 😛

I guess the difference is although it bothers me if a good friend is going through something, I'll try to help but if it isn't taken I can accept his choice. A woman is not nagging if she imparts her opinion but if she keeps going on with it even though I tell her why her answer is not applicable/acceptable/whatever, then it becomes nagging. Then I wonder why she's doing that to herself and pushing me away at the same time. It makes me feel that she doesn't trust my judgment so now it becomes a character issue; hers & mine. Sure, people can disagree but forcing another to their point of view is not only nagging but bullying. Guess guys get the tag of bullies or dominating rather than nags in this scenario.

Posted by everevolvingepithet
*pew pew pew pew*

Lol *blows finger gun*

lmao

< still laughing about it

Bling do you think I'm a shit stirrer?

I never really saw myself as one...it's not intentional at least.

But you're prob. right about it helping people lighten up a little and get over themselves.
It's my way of not taking anyone's side or really getting involved, but still giving my persepective - like how fucking dumb everyone's being. 🙂