P-Angel
@P-Angel
20 Years25,000+ PostsPisces
Comments: 0 · Posts: 44084 · Topics: 685
for fundamentalist ... to clarify
And the real reality of it is .... the Pisces has no awareness of it .. AT ALL.
We can sit here and say, yeah ... but, when you actually do or say something that proves it, this truth escapes awareness.
The Fish thinks it's good all the time. No matter what Fish you talk to, they will honestly believe that they are awesome people, no ugliness .. AT ALL.
lol .... it's possible that I'm the only one who really knows the truth ....
We can sit here and say, yeah ... but, when you actually do or say something that proves it, this truth escapes awareness.
The Fish thinks it's good all the time. No matter what Fish you talk to, they will honestly believe that they are awesome people, no ugliness .. AT ALL.
lol .... it's possible that I'm the only one who really knows the truth ....
Posted by seavixen2
I totally agree P. Life is full of ebbs and flows. Sometimes your down, sometimes your up. I consider myself an upstream fish because I cannot/do not allow myself to dwell in the murkiness tooo long anymore. I do not delude myself into thinking I'm perfect and wonderful and all that jazz. I'm only where I'm at because I've been down there in the deep plenty of times in my life. And without that experience, you do not gain insight/knowledge to change what you must change. No one is born knowing infinite knowledge. Even a Dalai Lama must be trained to be what he is. It's the ones that give up the fight of getting back on their feet and are content in the safety net of misery, and unwilling to evolve..IMO are the down swimmers. Some can't find their way back out of the darkness...
I would have to disagree with some, agree with other parts .... one cannot exist without the other, Seavixen. And you (we) cannot escape it. If you could defy humanity, you would be god.
We ARE two fish swimming in opposite directions simultaneously.
When a person is down and struggling to find their way, this does not mean they are exclusively a downstream swimmer ... for if they were it would mean there is spark in them at all. It would infer that to be down in one aspect of your life, means all aspects .. and how closed-minded is that?
When a person is feeling up and wonderful, is this saying that there is no error in them? There are no thoughts or feelings whatsoever of anything a different shade than wonderful?
The problem with this equation is in the reality of it ... what I was alluding to originally. A Piscean is so unaware of thier true nature, and completely tied to living within their environment that they believe that the measurements of this concept is wieghed according to the non-Pisces .... and that is the error, in itself.
You look at JoeBlow, the Sag, or Libra .... and pos/neg is measured accordingly, and then applied to yourself to determine where you stand (swim). However, the Pisces is both.
At the same time ... whereas they are not, at the same time.
The Piscean takes EVERYTHING in thier life, all aspects of it .. to the overworld, inside the bubble to decipher lifes meaning, then brings it to this reality here, right here where everybody else lives. In so doing, you have just escaped, lept into the very darkness in which
What if I told you that I'm an upstream swimmer and never delve into the dark murky waters?
How many people do you think would agree with that assessment?
How many people do you think would agree with that assessment?
Posted by Dynamite ParfaitPosted by seavixen2
I consider myself an upstream fish because I cannot/do not allow myself to dwell in the murkiness tooo long anymore. .click to expand
I also consider you an upstream fish Seavixen.
Because you're nice, caring and intelligent.
🙂
Here's a prime example of what I mean.
She has no clue what an upper or downer is ... because she is basing it on nice, care and intelligence.
When it's about reality .. to be up or down is dependent upon whether you are here, or over there at any particular moment.
And no DP's were harmed in this example .. just saying ....
Oops ^^^^^ 😄
P-Angel, with all do respect, I don't subcrobe to this new age belief that you have bought into that a person can "swim upstream and downstream simultaneously."
Once you accept this as "truth" then you can easily accept that there is no such thing as right or wrong.
Upstream and down stream are absolutes. Good and evil are absolutes.
One either swims upstream or down stream or goes with the flow. One is either good or bad and this is not theory on my part. This is knowledge based from my own personal life experiences.
Experience teaches wisdom, as they say.
I'm not sorry, P-Angel but I'm not drinking your new age kool aid.
Once you accept this as "truth" then you can easily accept that there is no such thing as right or wrong.
Upstream and down stream are absolutes. Good and evil are absolutes.
One either swims upstream or down stream or goes with the flow. One is either good or bad and this is not theory on my part. This is knowledge based from my own personal life experiences.
Experience teaches wisdom, as they say.
I'm not sorry, P-Angel but I'm not drinking your new age kool aid.
And P why do you think I had and bunched up panties?
First of all, truth be told, I wear boxers.
Secondly, since when did having conviction and sticking to my guns become "having you panties on a bunch"??
Well, maybe having conviction in dxp cyber world equates to having your panties on a bunch, but in real life, everyone who reacts to the one guy sticking to his guns are known as the people who have their panties bunched up..
But I guess it can be hard to experience real life when you live and exist in a cyber world like the majority of people who post here regularly do. And you all know who you are.
First of all, truth be told, I wear boxers.
Secondly, since when did having conviction and sticking to my guns become "having you panties on a bunch"??
Well, maybe having conviction in dxp cyber world equates to having your panties on a bunch, but in real life, everyone who reacts to the one guy sticking to his guns are known as the people who have their panties bunched up..
But I guess it can be hard to experience real life when you live and exist in a cyber world like the majority of people who post here regularly do. And you all know who you are.
To be nice, caring or intelligent is something that any/all people can do .... so, how is this an exclusive condition of just Pisces to be considered in directional swimming?
To be nice is to be nice, to be an ass is to be an ass .... anybody can do it, or not.
That isn't what the swimming directions even are of the Fish to use as the measurement of it.
Let's look at a situation that is common for the Fish, a situation that is so common that non-Pisceans come in here often to bitch about it: A relationship has been going pretty good, bumps in the road, but, fairly good relating .. then bam, the Fish vanishes.
Now, according to the Fish, the bumps were road signs of warning that this relating is taking too many tolls. However, nothing is actually said or done, it is left to expectations that the other is going to have to just "get" without communication. So, if the Fish was asked, they can see absolutely no harm done in this .. this breaking up was justifiable to the Pisces.
And the fact that in doing this swimming away was done downstream is completely oblivious from their awareness .. because they believe that this vanishing was being in the light. They have no clue that it was expressing darkness.
There is no understanding of what they did to the other person .. in this swimming down, they think is up ... and the reason WHY they think it is because they are basing it off of this one reality of all the otherins, and completely disregarding it is about TWO realities.
To be nice is to be nice, to be an ass is to be an ass .... anybody can do it, or not.
That isn't what the swimming directions even are of the Fish to use as the measurement of it.
Let's look at a situation that is common for the Fish, a situation that is so common that non-Pisceans come in here often to bitch about it: A relationship has been going pretty good, bumps in the road, but, fairly good relating .. then bam, the Fish vanishes.
Now, according to the Fish, the bumps were road signs of warning that this relating is taking too many tolls. However, nothing is actually said or done, it is left to expectations that the other is going to have to just "get" without communication. So, if the Fish was asked, they can see absolutely no harm done in this .. this breaking up was justifiable to the Pisces.
And the fact that in doing this swimming away was done downstream is completely oblivious from their awareness .. because they believe that this vanishing was being in the light. They have no clue that it was expressing darkness.
There is no understanding of what they did to the other person .. in this swimming down, they think is up ... and the reason WHY they think it is because they are basing it off of this one reality of all the otherins, and completely disregarding it is about TWO realities.
Posted by fundamentalist
P-Angel, with all do respect, I don't subcrobe to this new age belief that you have bought into that a person can "swim upstream and downstream simultaneously."
Once you accept this as "truth" then you can easily accept that there is no such thing as right or wrong.
Upstream and down stream are absolutes. Good and evil are absolutes.
One either swims upstream or down stream or goes with the flow. One is either good or bad and this is not theory on my part. This is knowledge based from my own personal life experiences.
Experience teaches wisdom, as they say.
I'm not sorry, P-Angel but I'm not drinking your new age kool aid.
lol, that is funny as shit, actually
One side of your mouth talks about absolutes while when pertaining to direction, and then the other side tries to coach me in realizing there is no such thing.
Wake the fuck up, dude.
Dude, if there is no right or wrong .... then there is no up or down
You talk about my kool aide !!!!
You talk about my kool aide !!!!
No, you wake the fuck up.
P-Angel to clarify,
You are the retard going around saying that people move up and down at the Dane time. You are trying to convince me that there is no up or down in effect since you have made no distinctions between them.
I am simply saying, NOT SO.
P-Angel to clarify,
You are the retard going around saying that people move up and down at the Dane time. You are trying to convince me that there is no up or down in effect since you have made no distinctions between them.
I am simply saying, NOT SO.
Posted by Dynamite ParfaitPosted by P-Angel
What if I told you that I'm an upstream swimmer and never delve into the dark murky waters?
How many people do you think would agree with that assessment?
We might have a easier time believing it if your actions were congruent with your words.
I don't have a problem with you P; in fact, I kinda admire your lack of verbal restraint.
I just question your motivations for saying certain things sometimes.
But if you say you're an upstream fish, then I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and take your words at face value.
🙂click to expand
Easy things to answer.
My motivation is in using a different angle to get someone to "get" it. People use soft support and fail when talking to the dense ones ... so, I attempt to slap some sense into them.
When I made that particular post, it wasn't in place for me to say how I feel about myself as in being up or down ... it was asked what do you think other people would think, because the otherins, like yourself, think it's based on choices to be, when it's not.
It's about reality.
New age relativism is BS.
The most important absolutes are good and evil. They contrast each other just like up and down contrast one another.
They are not the same because it is physically impossible to move up and down at the same time. It is spiritually impossible to be both good and evil.
Good vs. Evil. Which side are you on?
This is the only question in life that really matters, and you can't play for two teams at once.
The most important absolutes are good and evil. They contrast each other just like up and down contrast one another.
They are not the same because it is physically impossible to move up and down at the same time. It is spiritually impossible to be both good and evil.
Good vs. Evil. Which side are you on?
This is the only question in life that really matters, and you can't play for two teams at once.
New age relativism is BS.
The most important absolutes are good and evil. They contrast each other just like up and down contrast one another.
They are not the same because it is physically impossible to move up and down at the same time. It is spiritually impossible to be both good and evil.
Good vs. Evil. Which side are you on?
This is the only question in life that really matters, and you can't play for two teams at once.
The most important absolutes are good and evil. They contrast each other just like up and down contrast one another.
They are not the same because it is physically impossible to move up and down at the same time. It is spiritually impossible to be both good and evil.
Good vs. Evil. Which side are you on?
This is the only question in life that really matters, and you can't play for two teams at once.
Posted by Dynamite Parfait
OK, point taken.
But I am still kinda confused about upstream/downstream fish. It seems very subjective, highly-personalized and incredibly arbitrary. Do you feel-as a Pisces- that you have the right to label another Pisces either "upstream" or "downstream"?
And following from that question- does a non-PIsces have that same right? To label you as a salmon or a carp?
Could someone please provide us non-fish folk with a simple, concise definition of what an "upstream fish" is exactly, and why?
For a Fish to label another up or down is equivelant to making a character judgement call in here .. when we only know a fraction. In essence, we don't know any fucking thing about the other.
In the real reality of it, do we? Same thing. We don't know shit, so how can we say with any kind of accuracy, right?
Well, with a Pisces the up/down is together .... just like there is only a right, because there is a left. Ther is only a black because there is a white. And there is only an up because there is a down.
In essence ... it's the same thing, just a different side.
If you love the movie Saw, but hate the villian ... then you cannot hate the villian without the existence of the movie, and you cannot love the movie without the villain.
I love and hate my husband for the exact same qualities. I love him that he's an emotional robot and I despise him for being one.
We are up and down at the same time.
And how true it is that a leopard cannot hide his spots!
In the same way, people wear their character on their sleeves and it's not hard to tell who is who.
The people who swim downstream or are go with the flow types can't hide it.
Just like the noble and brave ones who swim upstream cannot hide their nobility and bravery.
Again we see the two absolutes in action, where as new agers live on a world of contrived fantasy where only fictional belief and speculation are at hand.
In the same way, people wear their character on their sleeves and it's not hard to tell who is who.
The people who swim downstream or are go with the flow types can't hide it.
Just like the noble and brave ones who swim upstream cannot hide their nobility and bravery.
Again we see the two absolutes in action, where as new agers live on a world of contrived fantasy where only fictional belief and speculation are at hand.
Explaining something takes time for me because I am a Piscean which means I have to draw a picture.
For a person like you, DP, you would see one or the other. You either love someone or hate someone, and this is a choice that you have made a particular point in time. You can alter how you feel about this same person, and again, this would be a choice you made at a particular point in time.
Whereas, for us, there is no choice to be made (and this is also where the indecisiveness wishy washy stuff comes into play) .... it's not a choice to us, for us .. we cannot decide these things ..
... because life happens BECAUSE of it's existence, no choices
If life is good right now then it's BECAUSE there is a bad that it could be = both directions at same time.
For a person like you, DP, you would see one or the other. You either love someone or hate someone, and this is a choice that you have made a particular point in time. You can alter how you feel about this same person, and again, this would be a choice you made at a particular point in time.
Whereas, for us, there is no choice to be made (and this is also where the indecisiveness wishy washy stuff comes into play) .... it's not a choice to us, for us .. we cannot decide these things ..
... because life happens BECAUSE of it's existence, no choices
If life is good right now then it's BECAUSE there is a bad that it could be = both directions at same time.
Without the realization of failure .... there can be no success.
Ok, so hopefully, you get that part of it .... now, add this to it ...
So, a Piscean has two realities .. serious, dude.
A Piscean takes life and everything in it to the other side to ponder. We make our decisions based off of how it would feel if we experienced it.
did everybody get that? ^^^
Say again ..... we make our decisions based off of how it would feel if we experienced it.
Some people would assess that we have no drive, no motivation, no ambition .. and this is somethign they would assess in this single reality in which they live. They might even look at us and think Downstream Pisces, right? And this is not true at all.
Once we have experienced what it feels like ~ over there ~ we simply made the decision not to pursue, or we have felt what it was like to experience it without ever doing more than just dreaming about it ~ over there.
~ over there being the other reality we live in which you otherins think is a fantasy.
And while we are there, you think we are swimming downstream .. and because we live entirely over HERE accoring to our environment (because we have to, because we have a stronger grasp of the other side, so we HAVE to depend on you to live here) .. when we are actually upstream according to what we think.
Did you get that?
~ over there = a stronger sense of reality
over here is vaguer/dimmer = we HAVE to depend on you (environment) to keep us
Only, we don't know it. If you ask a Pisces what I am saying right now they will think I am nuts .. however, if you ask them a precise question, you will find out that they envision life in a dreamlike state .. all life .. while refuting what I'm describing.
Why? Because, like I said from the very beginning .. a Pisces is not aware of it. They think this is normal, so it's not recognizable.
So, a Piscean has two realities .. serious, dude.
A Piscean takes life and everything in it to the other side to ponder. We make our decisions based off of how it would feel if we experienced it.
did everybody get that? ^^^
Say again ..... we make our decisions based off of how it would feel if we experienced it.
Some people would assess that we have no drive, no motivation, no ambition .. and this is somethign they would assess in this single reality in which they live. They might even look at us and think Downstream Pisces, right? And this is not true at all.
Once we have experienced what it feels like ~ over there ~ we simply made the decision not to pursue, or we have felt what it was like to experience it without ever doing more than just dreaming about it ~ over there.
~ over there being the other reality we live in which you otherins think is a fantasy.
And while we are there, you think we are swimming downstream .. and because we live entirely over HERE accoring to our environment (because we have to, because we have a stronger grasp of the other side, so we HAVE to depend on you to live here) .. when we are actually upstream according to what we think.
Did you get that?
~ over there = a stronger sense of reality
over here is vaguer/dimmer = we HAVE to depend on you (environment) to keep us
Only, we don't know it. If you ask a Pisces what I am saying right now they will think I am nuts .. however, if you ask them a precise question, you will find out that they envision life in a dreamlike state .. all life .. while refuting what I'm describing.
Why? Because, like I said from the very beginning .. a Pisces is not aware of it. They think this is normal, so it's not recognizable.
DP, I'm a fighter of convention, and always have been.
If it is normal .. I am in protest.
The only thing that is absolute is that there isn't one.
If it is normal .. I am in protest.
The only thing that is absolute is that there isn't one.
Here's one to ponder ......
An autistic person is usually considered to be an idiot .. yet, are often Savants.
Explain !!!!!!
They cannot even talk .. yet, are brilliant.
An autistic person is usually considered to be an idiot .. yet, are often Savants.
Explain !!!!!!
They cannot even talk .. yet, are brilliant.
The real truth of it is, DP, about what motivates me is (double-sided up/down) .....
Up - there is a genuine desire to help them, to open their eyes, to bring an awareness to them so that they can move forward and not struggle
Down - there is zero tolerance for ignorance
Up - there is a genuine desire to help them, to open their eyes, to bring an awareness to them so that they can move forward and not struggle
Down - there is zero tolerance for ignorance
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Up cannot exist without down.
If there isn't something that needs to be aware of, then there cannot be an ignorance to in existence.
There is no tolerance that it is present .. yet, acknowledgement that it has to be present in order for the person to be unplugged from the truth of it.
Pisces people are not up or down ... they are both. So, a Pisces cannot be assessed as upstream or downstream Pisces. That would be like saying a child of mixed parents is either white or black.
Up cannot exist without down.
If there isn't something that needs to be aware of, then there cannot be an ignorance to in existence.
There is no tolerance that it is present .. yet, acknowledgement that it has to be present in order for the person to be unplugged from the truth of it.
Pisces people are not up or down ... they are both. So, a Pisces cannot be assessed as upstream or downstream Pisces. That would be like saying a child of mixed parents is either white or black.
Posted by Chance11
I completely see what you're saying p-angel..as a cap/aqua, we have a fishy tail as well to probe the depths. My only critique is the Pisces lack of self awareness (I think you already pointed this out) and despite their all encompassing vision, their inability to convert this knowledge into useful wisdom for the rest of the signs.
In you saying this is actually the evidence of what I'm explaining.
To us, we seem perfeclty normal ... to the you, we seem tilted.
If you are doing something that feels perfectly normal to you, like say for instance, hanging stray cats in the backyard .... does that make it right, simply because it feels normal to you?
We cannot grasp what you said chance ... there have been many people to come in here and say what you have and ask what the fuck is up with that and every one of the Pisces people will respond with some kind of remark about it not being true.
We think we have a perfect and clear grasp of this reality, and we don't ... according to everybody else, we appear dim to them, feet in the clouds.
And this is BECAUSE we live in both at same time. To us, because we are firmly planted in reality on the other side, AND BECAUSE we are in both at this very moment together .... we are feeling the sensation of being perfectly stable realistically speaking, so have no clue what you are talking about .. because we are feeling both at the same time, and don't know it.
Like I said, even as I sit here an speak ... Pisces would tend to disagree with me, and then turn around and deny a similar claim, chance, if someone posted it.
Can anyone see what I am trying to describe?
Please say yes, and no, chance, that wouldn't be you ..... because of the very fact that you came in here with the (tone) in your critique as if to (suggest) that it's our choice and what the fuck are we to do about it.
Actually, we can convert into wisedom for the rest of the signs .... that is, if you guys could come to our other world with us .... over there, life makes perfect sense.
If people look at all the Pisceans in here, and the things they say to other people, you will begin to realize that we are clueless about proper communication. There are some who actually can, but, then say they are stumbling and don't know what to say.
For the most part, Pisces don't know how to express their thoughts .. and it normally comes out by blurting something inappropriate.
People have a built-in protection mechanism and I suppose the bliss of not knowing that is what protects our egos .... because if we actually knew how people view us, which is dumb, we would likely want to ..
1. stop living, or
2. stop your life
For the most part, Pisces don't know how to express their thoughts .. and it normally comes out by blurting something inappropriate.
People have a built-in protection mechanism and I suppose the bliss of not knowing that is what protects our egos .... because if we actually knew how people view us, which is dumb, we would likely want to ..
1. stop living, or
2. stop your life
And this is even more fascinating when I think about it coupled with Virgos.
They are all about proper communication, and seriously lacking in understanding emotions ... whereas we can feel everything needed for both of us, and unable to wrap words around it.
They are all about proper communication, and seriously lacking in understanding emotions ... whereas we can feel everything needed for both of us, and unable to wrap words around it.
Oh oH,Ive got accused of that many times.And sometimes people catch me daydreaming.And sometimes I just cant concentrate or focus on the conversation at hand because at some point during a conversation my imagination kicks in and Im swept away.It can be a bit embarrassing at times.Sometimes people ask eagerly,'what were you thinking just then?'.
OK what if......
pisceans are two fish swimming in both directions but its not for them to decide whether or not theyre swimming in those directions its for everyone else that experiences pisceans to decide
because to a piscean theyre just innocent (not innocent in the sensce but more like an ignorance is bliss kind of thing)
and they just do things "because"...........judging the things they do as good or bad are the other people who live with them...
and this somehow forms pisceans......
so the two fishes swimming away from each other doesnt represent how a piscean sees itself its more like how we see it......which is why the artist gave it that interpritation....
because lets get real here who ever heard of a piscean actually truly perceive itself?
pisceans are two fish swimming in both directions but its not for them to decide whether or not theyre swimming in those directions its for everyone else that experiences pisceans to decide
because to a piscean theyre just innocent (not innocent in the sensce but more like an ignorance is bliss kind of thing)
and they just do things "because"...........judging the things they do as good or bad are the other people who live with them...
and this somehow forms pisceans......
so the two fishes swimming away from each other doesnt represent how a piscean sees itself its more like how we see it......which is why the artist gave it that interpritation....
because lets get real here who ever heard of a piscean actually truly perceive itself?
^^ i dont think people judging pisceans forms a piscean into a good or a bad person....because I think and this is basing on all the pisceans ive met....but all pisceans actually do see themselves as awesome or wanna see themselves in a good light....whether it be as a good person....or some insane whackjob cos to them it sounds cool. etc etc
even as this topic goes on and on the whole topic of pisceans is so unstable and even pisceans trying to explain this stuff is pretty impossible...you proabably have a better chance explaining in interpritive dance
even as this topic goes on and on the whole topic of pisceans is so unstable and even pisceans trying to explain this stuff is pretty impossible...you proabably have a better chance explaining in interpritive dance
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.... what is an up/down stream Pisces.
You have yourself believing you are up, while the responsers to your thread are thinking down, and you think they are down ...... mixed up, jumbled up .. yeah, only a Pisces can actually decipher non-sense.
The thing is .... Pisces swims in both directions simultaneously
Any lights flashing yet? And this reality check goes for all you fine Fishes out there .. especially the ones who think they swim exclusively upstream. Yeah, that makes you officially fucked up just for that lie you tell yourself.
You can pat me on the back later
There is no such thing as an upper or downer without the other ....
boing **slaps back into reality**