Church

Just going to church doesn't make you a christian, any more than standing in a pub makes you a drunk. You must work at it.

well obviously

yeah, there are many people like that.
i hate when people say that peoople who don't are bad people. when some that don't are beter people then most.

I don't think we can argue with that. What I find hypercritical are people who are fanatical self proclaimed christians yet do not practice what they preach.

Disclaimer: the above comment was in NO WAY directed to anyone at this site.

13 you are talking about pubs, right?

religious ppl are still human and they do have their flaws, if i put myself in their position i'd probably be fustrated out of my mind, everyday i'd live in fear thinking, "am i doing something wrong??" they have to try as hard as they could, but at times they do falter. And i'm sure some of you have ideals and such but didn't think of following them at one period of time just because of your emotions.

I have alot of problems with the pulp materials used in religion.. bibles rewritten, passages removed..etc. rigid definitions that undoubtedly suited "the times".. but can not be modified and still be considered "the word". I'm leery of anyone anointed~appointed who salivates to explain the Will of God to me. I don't have trouble believing in God.. or Buddha.. or whomever.. (mono~diety) My troubles stem from all the others who believe.

Espernaut,

Do you speak Esperanto? Is that where the name comes from? It is a language mostly spoken in the Bay area and in Oakland(I have been told.)lol It was started by two Polish farmers. It was their idea of a way to break the communication barriers, by formulating a simple language, that people could understand, using a combination of letters and symbols.lol

"I'm leery of anyone anointed~appointed who salivates to explain the Will of God to me. I don't have trouble believing in God"

Maybe they have a medical condition. If you are going to tell me, it is more on the lines of their style of preaching and materials used, why dont you just not listen? You have free will. Walk on by! Find something that is for you, and let those who want that have it, do so without your need for condemnation. I realize some people have had problems with the different religious organizations; but dont condemn all the good people for the acts of a few bad ones. There are MANY good, kind and decent Christians.

I have heard you say nasty things about Christians before. I wish you would knock it off, it is offensive! If you have a problem with some, then take it up with them, dont bash a whole group.

"My troubles stem from all the others who believe"

I am leery of people who worship the devil and abuse their kids or like to torture animals and people etc. Get my point?

Espernaut,
Im sorry!

That was harsh. I re-read your stuff several times and I regret responding to you the way I did. You obviously had suffered bad experience with some (so called Christians). I apologize for my comments. I want you to understand though; most mature Christians in the world are not like that. They are out doing very good things in the world. The ones that dont, are like all other people. They are no different whether they are Christian, Muslim, black, white, jew etc. People are people and we ALL fall short of perfection. We should just try and do the best we can.

I hope you find some healing and peace for your pain.

Sincerely,
Alfie

LawGoddess,

I regard anything you say suspicious(good reason too). Below is how you describe your husband in one post. Then you go on another and say he is American Indian (Cree)born in Canada. (found under post titled "need opinions") Which is it?

"My husband has personally experienced missonary schools. HE was forceably taken from his home, (he is Aboriginal)"

I think you just like bashing Christians for the hell of it. I find you a hypocrite when it comes to your views. You talk about Christians walking the walk. Why dont you? But then again, I suppose its okay for you to do so, since you have not moral standards.

Good grief! I don't really understand what the question is you wish me to answer in re: to my husband. Firstly, ALL indigenous ppl for the continent of North or South America are either North or South American Indians. (Or generally called American Indians) They don't distinguish borders, and yet they can be born anywhere on the continent. So YES, my husband is Cree, and YES he was born in Canada, YES he is also an American Indian and YES he is Aboriginal. The reference 'aboriginal' means indigenous or maybe you are only familiar with the term 'Indians'...a term imposed upon them by another race of ppl entirely. Hope that clarifies.

As for bashing Christians...ba hum bug! As for ME walking the walk...I am not a Christian so I don't live by your rules. And B/C a person is NOT a Christian, doesn't mean I, or anyone with a different religion, does not have moral standards or values. (Who?s being hypocritical now?) MY reference in my post above is self explanatory...it was relating to ppl I know personally, and the disclaimer outlines that I do not relate to what was written to anyone here at this board...B/C I HAVE NEVER EVEN ENTERTAINED THAT PARTICULAR THOUGHT TO ANYONE HERE! And to draw attention to a point you seemed to have missed, the word used was ?fanatical.? I am able to distinguish, and did not infer re: to Christians generally.

Who's the one doing the 'bashing' around here? You talk about being hyporcritical..have a look in the mirror. I believe the first amendment of the American Constitution protects the inherent right of free speech. And this particular site proudly follows this. In Australia, there is also an implied notion of free speech, so therefore I should have the same courtesy as you and every other here to express myself whether you agree with my opinions or not. IF my post (or ANY post) is ambiguous then ask me to clarify and I will try my best to do so. Please don't ASSUME to know me or interpret my words as to be untruths. Just because there is information out there that you may have no knowledge or understanding of, doesn?t make that information posted a lie or necessarily misleading. The posts you refer to were written so long ago, and yet you are only asking for clarification now...I would hope that in the future if there is something you find misleading you will ask straight up, as most ppl tend to do here.

"Maybe they have a medical condition. If you are going to tell me, it is more on the lines of their style of preaching and materials used, why dont you just not listen? You have free will. Walk on by! Find something that is for you, and let those who want that have it, do so without your need for condemnation. I realize some people have had problems with the different religious organizations; but dont condemn all the good people for the acts of a few bad ones. There are MANY good, kind and decent Christians."

Maybe some Christians have that annoying "condition" called a God Complex. Why should anyone have to "not listen"? Why can't they just "shut up"? Don't condemn all pagans or all people who don't feel the need to label themselves as followers of one belief system for anyone else's benefit, just because you've had "bad experiences" with a few.

In short, don't be the hypocrite you just lamely accused Lawgoddess of being. Follow your own advice, and if you don't like what someone has to say, then how about "you just not listen"?

I hope you find some healing and peace for your pain.

P.S.

That was so very Christian of you, to begin your reply to Espernaut with school-child jokes about his username. Should we talk about the "coolness" of yours?? Good grief.

Alfie-
The two earlier posts read so comprehensively to me, that much that'd I say would only be redundant. So as not to repeat (that much).. I do switch channels, I do walk on by, and perhaps "salivate" could be liked to fanatical, meaing "extremely small percentage". I do not try to convert, I don't storm into people's houses or places of worship etc, and I don't defend any particular faith's view of things. .. (and I'm not saying you said that either.) But I do post on occassion, regarding issues I can't in good conscience let slide by (my past posts) and on occassion, amplify, or agree (all/most/or in part) with some one esles opinion (my post above). I speak of My past experiences with people I've met, those I've seen in the media committing adultry and asking for my money.. others embezzling money and serving jail terms for it.. etc. I've been the victem of faith rallies conducted right across from my former apartment (years ago) with public bull horns/hand held P.A. systems that blared through my walls and closed windows. No switching off.. no turning the channel. Check yourself.. if you have no foam on your lips, no bruises on your knuckles.. and no dents in your bible.. You're ok. I wasn't speaking to you. In fact we might agree on alot. In actuality, the only group I was speaking "to" were DXP'ers.

"The two earlier posts read so comprehensively to me, that much that'd I say would only be redundant"

Why dont you address the question yourself? It was intended for you and not some board groupies. That is if you can handle it?? Maybe you need young groupies to back you up?? You never cared about boring people before, why start now?

"I speak of My past experiences with people I've met, those I've seen in the media committing adultry and asking for my money.. others embezzling money and serving jail terms for it.."

For someone who has been around forty plus years, I shouldnt have to remind you of this: That this is is a human condition NOT exculsivley that of Christians. You have a bad chip on your shoulder from your experience with the Catholic church. Maybe rightly so. I wasnt there, so I will have to take your word for it. Dont say you dont condem me. As long as I abide by your rules and remain passive and not passionate(bible thumping) then I am free from your condemnation. Uh uh, I dont think so. Who made you king? As Lawgoddess stated, I am American and free to say what ever I want.

You and I have nothing in common. I dont care if someone has a past or has done things that they may be ashamed of. I dont care if they are a drug addict or prostitue or murder or alcholic etc. I deal with people as they are, the way I find them and as they treat me. I either like you or I dont and I dont judge them based on performance (sinner of saint). And I am sure if I wanted to, I could find something about you, Espernaut that isnt so perfect! But I really dont care. Your comments were offensive and still are. You could have been talking about another race. It came off with the same hatred and persecution tone. We are a country founded on Christianity. If you know our country's history, then you know about the religously persecuted, and where they were sent. You have a right to your comments and I am telling you that they are offensive. How do you like being offended? I tried in my opening lines. It doesnt feel really good, does it? But when you do it towards a entire group of people that you dont know anything about, because you had a bad experience by a few, it makes you look very small. And that's what I am talking about!

Lawgodess,

Whatever! LOL

I dont care if you want to treetrunk the entire UN! Just because you married into something, doesnt show me you know anything more than anyone else.

I have been around Native Americans all my life. I also have family friends that are Amazon Indian. As a matter of fact, one is a Hollywood producer/director. Never have they refered to themselves as American Indians. You may refere to them as such but they dont.

The point was directed at your credibility(you have none) and the fact that you DO get off on bashing Christians! What does moral standards mean to you? I believe you were on this form telling everyone how you were going to cheat on your husband. Espernaut?? This is where you come in now! Im serious. I mean you folks should think before you speak!

Espernaut,

You made a big mistake when you started with me. Ihave been holding off a long time to speak my mind. I have told you that you are offensive. If you want to continue....fine with me.

Phoenixrising?

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? NOBODY WAS PUTTING THE GOOD DOCTOR DOWN! I know you are young, but that is no excuse for being rude and speaking to me. Stay out of it. If I want to talk to you (never will happen) then the world has just ended and its only us left! I would kill myself!

NO one was addressing you! Futhermore, if you cant follow a simple conversation, then really try and consentrate harder. Put the pornography down and pick up Jack and Jill. Try that for a start!

Why dont you explain...what exactly a God complex is all about!
You seem to have a few complexes of your own
1. You are a board groupie
2. you have a suzy complex

Lawgoddes just read your responce to who ever, you go gril as for the christians the american indians weren't until the christians started nailing crosses to there feet. Being a heathen myself the goody two shoes on this site are starting to get to me.

James Tate? Is that the best you got? Because it aint much! You dont know your history much! It was your sorry a s s English people who showed them how to torture. It was the treetrunking english who were the ones that interfered and forced their ways down the throat of every body else.

Quit trying to kiss ass, hoping lawgoddess will treetrunk you next time she committs adultery.

Who is a good two shoes? Definetly aint me!

I guess I was right, thats the best you have!

I remember once I made that same comment to some guy, his come back to me was..."that's good enough" LOL He was good. Very smart and I wish I could have known him longer.

ok, Im done now and have purged my demon!

Sounds like we have an ignoramous amongst our midsts...credibility? What would YOU know about credibility? Actually, please don't even attempt to answer that, b/c anything you say from now on, I will not be able to take seriously. LOL....Now you have exposed yourself a tad more...I probably was insane thinking we could have a rational conversation. So la de da la de da ...lol.

All you do is repeat yourself. treetrunking broken record! Another thing....get a sense of humor! Your severley boring! You will suck as a lawyer!

Responce to JT's original statement:

LOOK AT ALL THE BRAIN WASHED SHEEP!!!

*sigh*

this conversation never goes anywhere but everyone does there best to beat it to hell...

And alfie, don't start with me

My , my, my, look what I have done now. I must start watching my words a bit more. Unlike some I have other interest aside from the boards. As for who ever what ever why ever, We do not give a big rats ass how you feel about what we say. As for treetrunking Lawgoddes she is to far away. as for morgan your right, as for kissing ass if they are good looking birds why not. This is getting boring.

Alfie...are you religious and if so what faith do you have and or follow...?

I believe in a higher power...I believe you and I have a soul...I believe in an order...a truth and way of understanding...I believe in the natural goodness and order of the universe I live in and if I were to believe that hell were an actual place I would call it earth...because it's the one place where all those atrocities they say go on in hell DO actually happen...!!!

I care not for things of the past especially how and when they have shaped the course of western man who has and is and will always be on a path to self destruction through his ego. I do not care for labels, I care for myself and what I am in essance and hopefully if I care enough about myself I just might be able to help someone else or affect them in such a way that they begin or are able to help themselves even more.

Forget the petty comments and fights Alfie...forget the labels and name calling...tell me about you...tell me what you believe...what you like...what makes you happy...

A second language for everyone
ESPERANTO

The International Language that works!
Every year, our world seems smaller. Ships carry a thousand items between countries. Jets carry passengers across oceans and around the world. Satellites bring us live television coverage from Europe and Asia. Every year, Americans in every walk of life communicate more and more with people of other countries.
One barrier remains...

As a result of this tremendous increase in contacts with the outside world, Americans are realizing that there is still a major barrier to international communication -- the language barrier!

Americans have long heard the cliche that "Wherever you go, people speak English." In fact, at most ten percent of the world speaks English! Often, in other countries, only people in the best hotels of the largest cities can use English, and even they are often not very fluent. Anyone who has visited a foreign country and struggled with the language barriers understands this. Americans are at last discovering what the rest of the world has long known: there is a real need for an international language.

Fortunately, there is such a language...
Its name is Esperanto. It was created by Dr. Ludwig L. Zamenhof, a Polish physician, who published it in 1887. Since then, Esperanto has been learned by millions. Of the many projects and proposals for an international language over the centuries, Esperanto is the only one that has stood the test of time and is being spoken today. It is in daily use by many thousands of people all over the world, and the number is growing constantly.

Many international meetings are held in Esperanto. Books and magazines are published by the thousands to meet the demands of an international public. Some of the largest international firms put on special advertising campaigns in Esperanto. Hotels, restaurants and tourist resorts compete for the patronage of the Esperanto-speaking traveler.

Esperanto's impressive success as the language of international communication is due to three basic advantages. It is easy to learn. It is politically neutral. And it has many practical uses.

Esperanto is easy...
Esperanto is much easier to learn than any other language. In fact, it can be learned in a quarter of the time needed to learn a national language! The spelling is easy: each letter has exactly one sound. The pronunciation is easy: there are no strange combinations of letters to create new sounds, and the accent is always on the next to last syllable. The grammar is easy: there are only sixteen basic rules, with no exceptions. (That means, for example, that there are no irregular verbs.) The vocabulary is easy, too: many international words are used, such as telefono (telephone), biologio (biology), and matematiko (mathematics). Esperanto gives a very "natural" impression in spoken or written use; and, because of its high ratio of vowels to consonants, it is often said to resemble Spanish or Italian.

Esperanto also uses prefixes, suffixes, and interchangeable endings to reduce the number of words to be learned. For example, in English we make the words friendly, unfriendly, and friendship from the root word friend. Esperanto carries this idea much further, making the vocabulary easier to learn.

In short, Esperanto has been rationally constructed for ease of learning. This has made it especially popular with busy men and women who cannot spend years learning a foreign language, which would be useful in only a small part of the world. Because of these features, Esperanto is attractive as an introduction to other foreign language studies. In the Hawaiian schools, for example, the study of Esperanto is a basic part of that state's innovative English program.

Esperanto is neutral...
The second major reason for Esperanto's success is that it is neutral. It belongs to no one country. Many people in

"As for who ever what ever why ever, We do not give a big rats ass how you feel about what we say."

BLOW DURRIE.

YOU BIG BUFFED UP ASTROLOGICAL HOMO! I THINK YOU BOTH TAKE IN THE A S S!

Here is more information on
Esperanto--http://www.esperanto-usa.org/about_eo.html

"Unlike some I have other interest aside from the boards."

Really? then you can leave me alone!

"And alfie, don't start with me"

I dont start but I will finish!

I believe there is a heaven and hell(earth is not either) because reincarnation would be too easy a fate for people like Hitler and Moussolini etc.

and lawgoddess and james tate and phoenix rising. they should go to h e l l too!

Parallex,
I appreciate your post. And there are several good points you mention. My use of "pulp materials" was not intended to be malicious or ridiculing.. I meant to imply "in general", i.e. I meant it as a "neutral noun". (At that point, I saw no other way to put that.) I've only seen the bible.. and yes, the revisions and such I mentioned, I did and do wonder about. I admit, during the post, I did not think ahead to modern translations, on going, etc. I also am not discounting the genuine good faith in the orginal translations, and the intensity of effort to ensure a correct translation. I Have heard the Catholic church did revise and omit certain gospels, etc. I also admit, I haven't the knowledge of the texts that you mention. You seem to know exactly the problems (the sources) that I'd referred to (I did not know the names of the texts, as you do.)
And I did state.. I have "problems" (issues / curiousity regarding) with etc..
What I said, when boiled down is:
I've got issues with the bible.
I'm leery of specific individuals *who know* exactly what the word is.. (every nuance.. every tiny essence) and will not stop (despite my intial politeness to dc' the conversation..)
I did not deride any earnest biblical endeavor. I applaude missionary work. And just for interest, and merely coincidental that you mentioned a reference to the following: I've spoken with several Mormons about religious differences, and came away very enlightened. I admire various aspects of how intensely community oriented that particular group has proven itself to be.
You stated in closing, "Just follow your own path, and let others be." I agree with that. And I felt that I was.. letting those others be. That is my point, I did not set out to go after anyone.. Ever. I stated my opinon, like the 3 posters did before me. Period. It was not an attack on Christianity as a whole, I never said it was. Although, true.. I said "all" people. And that was probably "my bad".. judging from the blow back from others. You also mentioned a person's putting down an entire or most or even some of a group is still bigoted. And I agree. And I do not feel that is what I did (others may disagree). In the context of what I said, or tried to say, hard core conversionists, in~your~face evangelism.. does not require that I have infinite patience.. That "this" religion (and no other) is "the" one, etc. The fact that I believe (at the very least) in one god, ought to do it for the type of person I've been speaking of.. To attempt to point out the flaws in one's faith and "I'm wrong" etc.. only alienates me. (Again I speak only of the people I have dealt with.) My examples, those that "I" met. (My, my, my)

In retrospect, it's a shame by co-incidence that you didn't happen to post first, after mine. I think the resultant conversations could have been quite good. Quiet logic is never insulting. I appreciate your reply; I appreciate the time.. and if you still feel I'm in error.. at least you've heard me out.

Did alfie get squelched yet? You know, for being obscene?

Hey thanx paralax, but sorry, I'm sorta getting involved right now 🙂

OOOPS!!! How unfortunate that I didn't catch that... I'm so very sorry... PARALLAX

😛

Who ever what ever why ever you posted a reply on my post ? I did not post on yours, As for name calling try to be a bit more original.

haha parallex, I knew I was your favorite. eat dirt durrie 😛

You first Gwen...hehe.

Lol...Apparently we can exchange insults all day and still both be Parallaxs' favorite...hehe...

Maybe we should learn ESPARANTO...then we can exchange insults on "common" ground so eeeeeeveryone can understand hey Gwen...hehe.

Also ass wipe on language its take in most cases one year to learn a language it takes five years to think in a language. Most of us euro trash speak several, we learn from birth. I have been around a bit and do not hear a lot of people speaking esperanto. Perhaps I travel in the wrong circles.

Parallax just read your post. as always well put I must think on what you said and will get back to you later.

Esperanto is not for everyone. We are small group of people, just doing our own thing. Marriages have been formed in these groups. Lives have been changed!

as far as being original, I am sorry....you probably get that alot!

um...Hi, Parallax... 😛

Parallax its later. Religion I belevie was made up by man to control masses of people. From watching and reading alot about the start of religion I think it started around 5000 years ago were and how is debateable, I tell everyone one to beleive what they want. I see religion as something that men will write for, fight for, die for, anything but live for. Religion and friendship, the ones who profess it the most are the least sincere. I believe that God and afterlife can nither be proved or disproved. I hope one of the religions is right I would rather go on after death. But I am a man who would rather reign in hell than serve in heaven.

I have another question being an atheist should I belong to a non-prophet organization?

even if the god everyone speaks of is false, i still think it was necessary to make him.

For about a month I believed "God" was the also fabled "collective subconscious" spoken of by Freud. Now, I realise God is whatever a person makes it to be. God's biggest use is in keeping the majorities on the straight and narrow, that's how I see it, and I'm pretty sure that's how the imprisoned Jews saw it when they wrote the Old Testament too. It sure seems a lot like what the first Christians were thinking, what with Jesus and all this forced niceness and all...other uses include the motivation to drive heavily fueled aircraft into tall buildings.