Confused by a Sag

I'm a Scorpio and I have an ex Sag that has been contacting me again after 13 years. He found me on Facebook. We had quite a few days of very intense e-mails back and forth about how we have not quite been able to forget about each other and then he went about 3 days without answering one of my e-mails. I got worried that I may have said something to upset him so I sent him an e-mail asking him if he just got busy or if I said something that upset him and he wrote back right away and said no that nothing had upset him and that he had just started to get a little paranoid that he would scare me away if he contacted me too much and that I had been in his thoughts quite a bit and then he admitted that he was feeling a bit giddy at the thought of talking on the phone or meeting up for coffee one day. Then we e-mailed back and forth again for a few more days and then I had to go away on a trip for 4 days. I was the last one to send an e-mail response before I left on my trip and I have not heard back from him. That was over a week ago. I told him that I would be back on Tuesday and I thought I would have heard back from him by now, but nothing. I know that he says he is just giving me space and not wanting to scare me away but I just don't know what to think of all of this. I feel like he is completely leaving the ball in my court and waiting for me to move it along further if I'm comfortable, but I think that he may be projecting and that he is the one who is scared. He used to come after me relentlessly when we first met 13 years ago. He says he is a completely changed person now though. I have decided that the next time he contacts me that I should just suggest that we talk on the phone or meet for that cup of coffee, but I don't want to move too fast for him. It's just driving me crazy and I am at the point now after a month of e-mailing back and forth that I just need to meet with him and see if there really are any feelings left there between us or so that I can get some closure and just move on. I feel like I have no patience at all and I don't see how he can have so much patience. Is this behavior typical of a Sag male? Our correspondence has been so intense but,now I'm not sure if he is serious or just playing with my feelings?

Yeah, that was me on the Scorp board talking about him when he first started e-mailing me again. I was asking if people could really change. There were a lot of "no trust" reasons that I broke up with him back then. I am trying to look at him newly. We were kids the first time we were together and I know how much I have changed since then. The question is has he?? He says that he has. He says that he is ashamed about his behavior with me and that it has always haunted him. He seems to know who he is now and that impresses me because he could not see any of that back then.

Ashleysagstar,

You are so right. He used to tell me how much he loved me one day and even ask me to marry him and then the next day he would act like he never said a word. That used to really hurt my feelings back then. I'm the type that I don't say anything that I don't mean. He on the other hand would say whatever he was feeling at the moment good or bad. he would never just keep his feelings and emotions to himself. I was way too sensitive about it instead of appreciating the honesty. I have such a better understanding of his personality type now though after 13 years of aging and wisdom and I think I would be o.k. with it now because I'm pretty sure if he is telling me that he loves me that he really does and that the changing his mind the next day is just a sign of his insecurity and I just need to know how to make him feel better about exposing his little underbelly to me.

He finally contacted me again yesterday. It was my birthday and he sent me an e-mail birthday card that he made himself. I thought that was really sweet and shows me that he really is thinking of me. Then we had a couple of really light e-mail back and forth and it is my turn to respond now and I'm not sure if I should just go for it and see if he wants to move onto a phone conversation or if I should just be patient and let him lead. I feel like he will never be the one to bring it up first if I don't do it. I'm just not sure on what to say. I can't believe I'm being so shy about this. It's very unlike me.

O.K. I did it. I hit the send button. This is what I said.

"I don't know about you, but I'm still having a hard time believing that I'm really talking to you and not someone else and I think I would really like to talk to you on the phone sometime and hear your voice. My curiosity is getting the best of me. What do you think of that idea? Do you think we are ready for that as scary as it sounds?? :-)"

Now I'm freaking out. LOL!!! I think his stomach will drop to the ground when he reads it and you are right. He may have to think about it for a while before he responds.

"I don't know about you, but I'm still having a hard time believing that I'm really talking to you and not someone else"

Haha!! The only reason I said that is that we had talked about it being so surreal that we are talking to each other after so long and that it almost doesn't feel real.

He told me in one of the first e-mails that he sent me that he was so happy that there was such a thing as e-mail because if he saw me in person that he would have to cry for about 10 minutes before he could speak so I know he is scared about it too. I told him that it would probably be a little ackward for the first few minutes, but then it would be like no time had passed at all.

I haven't heard back from him yet!! But, I know he was going to be out all day so he probably hasn't even gotten the e-mail yet.

Thanks for all of your advice. :-)

What they need and know or don't know that they need. Be one step ahead.

great advice - ask the make or break questions if possible !

Don't worry, the best way to deal with Sag is directly to-the point.

gslove, sometimes people just get excited, and when the thrill subsides, so does the interest.

Oftentimes, the reciever of this excitment interprets wrong, and how can this be helped ..... because in reality, we all have our own desires and perspectives.

Thrills in the moment are something a Scorpio has a hard time with because they are so serious about a controlled environment. That's not a bad thing ... it doesn't co-exist comfortably with those people who embrace each thrill as they arise in the moment, and then carrying back with their normal lives, waiting for the next thrill.

Which is why Scorpios struggle with Rams .. maybe it's a fire-thing.

Enjoy, and let go .. wait for the next thrill and enjoy again.

Yeah, you tell him whats up!

AAAHHHH!!!! I wanna know what happened here! Did you get your scorpio mate back or not— 😄

"gslove, sometimes people just get excited, and when the thrill subsides, so does the interest."

P-Angel, that is what I'm worried about. Even though we met 18 years ago and we were together for 5, I had to be the one who finally broke up with him. He would never leave, but he would never fully committ either. It felt like a rollercoaster. My feelings and emotions were always steady and never waivered and his feelings and emotions were all over the place. He never knew what he wanted. I do think though that alot of that was imaturity. Most men in their 20's would be the same. Now he is much older and he says he is not like that anymore and much more content on who he is and what he wants in his life now. We were both very independent. I always gave him plenty of space to breathe, but he did not allow me the same space because of his insecurity. He always wanted me to be home at the same time that he was home and go to bed at the same time that he did. Stuff like that. I did what I wanted anyway though and even though it made him insecure, he also respected it.

oh shit, oh shit, oh shit!!!!! What have I done. I heard back from him and now I'm freaking out. It feels so weird to schedule a phone call. LOL!! No pressure there, right— This is what he said.

"Talking on the phone....Wow. I'm OK with that. It feels good to me.
I'm a bit
nervous about it but I think it's a healthy nervousness. Now that you know my life story, what is there to talk about? Kiddin'.

So when would you like to do this?"

I read this and I am just thinking. This is soooooo stupid. I feel like we are kids again.

That's usually a good thing though isn't it?

Now we have talked on the phone a couple of times and we are now meeting for coffee next week. This slow pace is killing me. He is moving so slowly and he seems so cool calm and collected, but I know he is not. I think he is actually terrified. He has been thinking about talking to me again for 13 years and now that he finally has the chance he's not sure what to do with it. I know he is also trying to lose some weight and work out before he sees me too. LOL!! The last conversation he acted like he was joking around and he said "Does meeting for coffee mean we are getting back together?" Then he felt really stupid for saying it and apologised and said that he didn't know why he said that. I didn't know how to answer that so I just laughed and said let's just see if we can get through a cup of coffee first. I just want to hurry up and meet and get this over with already. Haha!!

I have absolutely no patience on this one. Thinking about him is keeping me from thinking about dating anyone else at the moment and I don't like that. I might see him again and think "What did I ever see in this guy?" and then I just wasted all of this energy. LOL! He told me that he lost 10 lbs doing that lemonade diet. Now I'm wondering how much weight he has gained since the last time I saw him. I am exactly the same except that everything has went a bit south after 15 years. What do you mean by he is goal oriented and sure of what he is doing? Do you just mean in general or when it comes to me?

gs no disrespect but why are you being so dense over this guy, there are so many red flags all up in this that your too close to see it, if he's not contacting you then he's not worth the time or the energy, your instincts are telling you that he's a loser, that he's not reliable, that he's playing games but you insist on not paying attention to that gut level feeling that is telling you the truth about the situation, this guy pops up after 13 years, talks your head off, feeds you intense feelings of connection and then disappears only to come back after you initiate...this is a classic sign of unavailable man, he's not mature when it comes to deep connections so he wants you to lead and uses lame excuses why he takes the path of least resistance, I will say this, the more you initiate the less power you have, the more you initiate and pursue the less power you have, the more work you put into this issue the more your going to feel compelled to hold onto him even when he's clearly showing assclown behavior and HE KNOW this and thats why he's leaning back, to get you hooked and once hooked in you will be doing all the initiating and pursuing and you will remain confused...YOU will be the relationship, he's supposed to call and initiate with you not the other way around, he came to you initially so he should be following up and not using excuses to manage your emotions towards him.

Step back, look at him logically, take all your emotions out of the equation and ask yourself why are you chasing him or feeling the need to chase him in the first place, back all the way up, stop contacting him and allow him to come to you, if he never comes back then he NEVER INTENDED ON KEEPING THE CONNECTION GOING, move on to someone that isn't wasting your time and for christ sakes stop telling men all your dayum business, these men can be very predatory and will mirror back emotions even if he doesn't feel that way, TEST these men that pop up after years, men don't change that easily, he's already showing you he's still a lazy unemotional immature assclown, replace your wishbone with your backbone...stop being an easy target, these men are everywhere, ask questions and then more questions and then you will see him swiftly kick you to the curb because he recognize he can't just show up and say any old thing to get his way, he can't just FEED you INTENSE emotions and sit there and let you do all the work...

he's already yo yo'n you, now that we are having coffee does that mean we are together and then he APOLOGIZES for saying it, talk about head tripping, good luck girl, your going to need it, he's still an emotional roller coaster ride, he came back to you because no one else wants to put up with his BS bad behavior, you will quickly see the cracks in the wall have only been spackled, they are still there and its already showing. Enjoy your meeting, I'm sure it will be very exciting, fun and interesting and you will be HOOKED and he will leave you to do all the work, all the calling, all the emailing and you will remain confused by his lack of actions towards you

I don't know Tikki... I mean I have gone through something very similar with an ex of mine. We split up because we couldn't handle our emotions, but then when we got back together again...
My god! It was so intoxicatiing and electrifying! I would reccomend anyone who feels a little of that at least once in their lives. You can't just go around ignoring your feelings - without emotion we might as well be dead. Even if you know it won't last forever, you may have a good time before you split up, and you may even learn something about yourself in the meantime - what more can you want?
Also, he was the one who instigated. Even if he did back off for a while doesn't mean he's not interested. They have been 13 years apart, and he does have other things going on in his life. You can't expect that he will just stagnate, waiting for her for 13 whole years!!!

What I'm trying to say to any lady is this...a man that blows really really hot then he tempers down to cold means he has INTIMACY issues, meaning he doesn't really know the what and the whys of a relationship. 13 years means he is LOOKING for something and she should be very questionable of his intentions, If she doesn't then she's inviting heartache and she's not looking at things clearly, she herself feels the confusion but can't quite pin point it and I just put some things in perspective, I don't say what I say to spoil things although it may seem that way, I truly want her to have that great guy after 13 years of no contact but I also want her to look before she leaps, know the whole product before she buys the product because you can't get a return on bullshit or shall I say shitty merchandise that he may be selling...jus be conscious but yet have fun too

tiki, He has not pulled all the way out. He has just slowed down which I think is a good thing. I am the one who is being impatient. I am not contacting him at all. He is the one contacting me, but just a little too slowly for my taste. He is only contacting me about once a week now. I did do a little bit of initiating to suggest we talk on the phone instead of e-mail, but only after he contacted me first. He was afraid that I would say no so he put off the asking. I had to do a little something to get it going. Now the ball is back in his court. He is the one who asked to go have coffee. I was just not happy that he wanted to wait almost 2 weeks to do it. He is actually the smart one to be taking this slowly. He has pulled away a little and is not contacting me everyday anymore, but he didn't give a lame excuse. He told me that he was getting a bit paranoid to come on too strongly because he doesn't want to scare me away. I do think you are right though that he is thinking long and seriously about what he wants from this relationship. The last thing he wants to do is hurt me again by not being ready for a committment and I think he still in a lot of ways fears it. He IS a Sagitarious you know. The reason he is coming back to me is because I am the only one he ever did see himself committing to. Now though he has a daughter to consider. It's just not himself. He is not making me any promises and neither am I. We are just two people trying to figure out what all of these intense feelings we are having are all about. We both have tried to ignore them for years and now it's time to face it. One thing I'm sure of is that he is not playing any games with me. He is being sincere. My soul connection with him tells me this very strongly. Will I get hurt from this—? Maybe I will, but it won't be because he is doing it purposely. I might be the one to hurt him and I'm sure he is terrified of the thought of that.

Wow!
Now I see what is happening. If he has a daughter to consider, then he is very wise in taking it slowly. I do think though that you may be making him worry that you're not as interested as he is, and maybe that is part of the reason he cooled off?
I know that as a sag myself, I will jump in all hot and heavy until I feel the other person pull back. Even if they only pull back the tiniest bit, I will cool down, whether I want to or not. I ahd a situation with a friend who cooled back just a touch, then I cooled too, amd we haven't spoken to each other for about a year now, even though we live in the same town. There were more complicated issues than that, but I hope you see what I mean?

Maybe it is time for you to instigate the next meeting? I wish you luck xx

"Maybe it is time for you to instigate the next meeting?"

The next meeting?? There hasn't even been one meeting yet. Haha!! About a week and a half ago we talked about getting together after the Thanksgiving holiday. Then a I heard from him by text message on Thanksgiving day just to say Happy Thanksgiving. I'm expecting to hear from him any day now to make a plan for the end of the week. We had talked about doing it either on a Thursday or Friday. I am not good at the persuing. He must know that I'm interested. I don't know how he wouldn't. Why would I have written back such long e-mails and had such a long conversation with him on the phone if I wasn't interested? Can he possibly be that naive to think I'm just being nice to him and that I don't really want to meet with him or it's just a friend thing?? I guess I could send him an e-mail if I don't hear from him and ask him if he has chickened out, but if I have to go that route then I'm going to start thinking that maybe I was the one who is too naive and that HE is the one who just wants to be friends. LOL!! It's a little confusing because when we first started dating 18 years ago he was not shy. He called every day and when we broke up he called and came after me relentlessly trying to get me back so he was always pretty rejection proof. I can't believe that he would have changed that much. He probably has one of his friends giving him advice to take it really slow or he will mess things up or he is reading some man book on how to drive a woman crazy. Or maybe he has just grown up a little. Haha!! I have to stop comparing him to who he was in the past and see him as someone totally new. Who knows what is going through his head. Hopefully I will get a chance to ask him in person soon.

Tiki, Do you even read the posts at all? You are making a lot of assumptions without knowing any details. You must have been burned by a lot by men in your lifetime to be so bitter. Not all men are as calculating or even as smart as you give them credit for. Men are very simple creatures. Yes they need a challenge, I agree, but you can't be so closed off and untrusting especially with men over 35. They have also been burned by a lot of women and they are untrusting by that time and sometimes they need just a little encouragement. They are smart enough by that age to not want to do all the work anymore and they can smell a game a mile away and certain games are a big turnoff for them. I agree that you can do too much and give too much to a man and give too much information, but he is the one who is giving me too much info. I haven't told him much at all. I do think he is hoping that I will contact him more and make him feel more secure by contacting him, but as you said, where is the challenge in that. I'm giving him just enough to know that he has a chance. He needs to do what makes him feel uncomfortable to help him get over his fears and feel more like a man so I am staying mysterious and letting him lead this. It doesn't mean that I am liking it though. It's kind of hard when you are excited by someone to sit back and just wait. I believe that you don't have to do much at all for a man to keep him happy. You just have to sit back and REALLY appreciate everything he is doing for you and he feels like the strong man that he is. If you are doing more than him then where is the challenge in that. It starts to make him feel like he is being mothered when you do too much for him and then he starts treating you like his Mother and having those guilt feelings like he does with his mother feeling like he can never do enough to reciprocate so he just stops trying and lets Mother do everything for him. A lover has to keep her independence and mystery to keep him interested and make him feel like a man.

I don't know if it is his daughter that is slowing him down. That is just me guessing about what he is thinking. I used to be like you and a man had to prove himself trustworthy, but now I would rather them have to prove themselves untrustworthy before I just write them off. Men have a lot of fear and insecurities when it comes to relationships too just like women do so you really need to give them a little bit of a break.

"I rarely make friends w/ a woman I wouldn't ... haha, ...go there with. Too much too fast could have him not appreciating you though, and always looking for something better."

What you described is not romantic feelings and falling love, thats what we call tapping dat ass, 2 separate things.

"nah, I don't think that's true for men ... it may be a womans experience. Guys just get busy w/ other stuff (or people)."

Thats true as well but after 35 this guy knows the drill with women, to leave her hanging and then GS has to question his behavior means there is an imbalance between the 2. He makes the I just don't wanna mess it up excuse well mess what up?? Nothing ever started due to his imbalancing act

I could be bitter, who really knows, I'm sure we all have had some experiences were we make excuses for men, I tell you what, I will leave this issue alone and I will sit back a week or so from now see what else you complain about, this dude is an assclown and your in denial about his intentions and his behavior, everyone else will help you be in denial, thats not my thing, you know in your heart that this guy is not what he seems to be because his behavior tells you so and MEN, grown men with good intentions don't behave the way he does period. I have been through enough assclowns to know red flags and lazy behavior towards a woman, All these excuses why he hopes you will contact him more, is your WEAKNESS, he's going to pick apart your weaknesses and then pick you apart because you are clueless about red flags and what they mean...good luck

There are ways to be a feminine woman that protects herself without seemingly being naive when something isn't quite balanced, you too see the imbalance and REFUSE to call it like it is which is classic denial. You keep harping on men fear and insecurities, I have never seen a man NOT go for what he wants if he truly wants it, I'm sure he was afraid of being a father and questioned if he would be a good father but he had kid/s anyway, I'm sure he wasn't sure if he could be a good husband but he got married anyway, men are either fearless or cowards and there is no reason to trust him unless he's proven that he can be trusted, again not trying to put you down GS but your an easy mark, an easy target because you would rather trust some guy that you haven't seen in 18 years rather than trust YOURSELF, if you trusted you more, he wouldn't even be discussed. You really made an excuse about men after 35 oi vey *slaps forehead*

Sorry if I upset you, didn't mean too but again I'm not here to uphold your ideas about his behavior, I just can't live on that planet with you, I stopped trying to figure them out but I taught myself to recognize assclown behavior and I know when they give huge clues via how they behave and its up to the woman to understand what those ques are. Do I dismiss men because of it, hell no, as long as I know what the deal is thats all that matters and I control me and I have a broader spectrum and view of whats going on, I take the red colored glasses off, unfog my brain and keep it real with myself and with men

You didn't upset me tiki! I actually think this is a very interesting debate. In order to be happy in this world you sometimes have to risk the hurt and take some chances so that you are not always wondering what would have happened if you took that chance. You seem to have all of these pre conceived notions about men and have built a wall around yourself with all of your rules and no man is going to ever hurt me again attitude. The worst thing that will happen out of this for me is that I will have a bruised ego and get some closure. So far the worse he has done is go a week without contacting me. You are expecting a man to be perfect and have no flaws. I think the truth be known you have had far more than your fair share of letting a man take advantage of you and now you want to make sure that never happens again. That is understandable. I was there in that place myself for quite a few years and I had all of my rules about how "you better treat me right or I'm walking". No man could ever live up to my expectations. I was always waiting for a man to do something to fuck up so that I could be right that all men are assholes. I guess I have now just found a happy place in the middle now. I am going into this with my eyes wide open. No matter what happens I will be fine. I know my worth and I will never let anyone walk on me, but I refuse to be that hardass rules girl that can't trust anyone and making every man prove to me that he is worthy of me. I have faults and that is why I can be a bit forgiving of other people's faults even if it's only "a bit". I am enjoying all of this anticipation and not knowing what is going to happen with this guy, but at the same time it also drives me crazy that I can't control the situation. This is a very big lesson in patience for me and maybe that is all it will be. If I stop enjoying it then it's done and I have closure and have learned more lessons in life and will be that much closer to the person I am supposed to be with. I agree with you that a lot of women have too much faith in a man or they are looking for all of their happiness and worth through a man and they give themselves up for him. You can advise, but everyone has to learn their lessons the hard way. Just like you did. I don't think that everything a man does that is not perfect necessarily means that he is out to hurt and manipulate you. Wouldn't it be nice to go back to that innocent young girl before you were ever hurt by anyone and believe in love?

Gs come on now, I don't have any pre conceived notions about men, I absolutely love men, I adore them even the assclowns, I just choose to see assclown behavior, call it like it is and keep it moving, it doesn't mean I don't smile and play with these men, hell they are FUN FUN FUN but never will I take a man like that seriously. Look around these boards and read how many women fell for the charm and then continue on to read how much of an assclown he really is and doesn't seem to be able to revert back to Mr.Charming anymore, these men are good at what they do because thats ALL they do, date 100xs more than us women so they have a huge advantage over women, assclowns, bad boys, man-boys and jerks have this boyish exciting mysterious believable fun quality about them and thats really hard to resist and they know it d:

I have made many mistakes and I still do but I don't keep doing the same thing with different men and attempting to get a different result, there is no need for me to feel afraid of being hurt by men because sometimes pain is part of the process, no one can avoid being hurt on this planet. Boundaries are not rules, boundaries are flexible and can be changed as time goes on, boundaries are a womans best friend, it keeps a woman from falling for every man that says hi I'm back, it saves a woman deep heartache from being emotionally manipulated by emotional predators, man-boys, jerks etc etc and oh yes they do exist and they love to hunt and find women such as yourself. As for being taken advantage of, that happens and that is not something I can't ever really control 100% so there is really no fear of that because its a part of life.

I know you want to find my weaknesses and yeah I do have some but being afraid of being hurt is not one of them. Boundaries are not expectations, boundaries are FOR YOU not him, there is nothing wrong with having them and some men love when a woman isn't smart enough to create personal boundaries, that means the playground is fruitful to advantage and it gives him much more time to play his mind games, its a matter of the level of consciousness a woman possesses during the dating process which can make a or break a situation. A woman doesn't have to be mean if she has boundaries, the boundaries speak for her and boundaries speaks for itself, a woman can still be gentle, loving and caring and yet still feel secure knowing that he's respecting her in a way that makes her feel balanced when he's being confusing

As for going back to the innocence, I never lost it, I still have it and there is power in being strong inside and vulnerable outside, I retain that innocent quality but manage not to be gullible and stupid at the same time. We are only at the mercy of men if we don't understand men, if we understand them then we can manage our love lives better instead of feeling powerless and losing our ourselves and feeling as though we are being led around.

The more a woman educates herself about men and gain more understanding, the more prepared she is when things fall into that confusing stagnant state, she won't panic, she won't feel so confused about it and she can let go of trying to control the direction and outcome of a relationship, we can relax and just go with it because we know his side and our side as well, the more information a woman has the better choices she can make for herself.

We all have flaws etc, no one said hold it against him but it doesn't mean fall asleep at the wheel and crash either.

"I just choose to see assclown behavior"

It seems like you are looking for and expecting assclown behavior so that is all you see. I'm not at all saying that you should be blind, but don't you think you are seeing it before there is any proof that it is there? I see a lot of women who are blind to a man's behavior, and that is not smart either, but just don't make every little thing he does all about you and what he is doing TO you. That just takes away your power. Sometimes it's just about them and they are reacting off of their own experiences like we act upon our own experiences and it has nothing at all to do with you. In the end everyone just wants to be happy and loved even the assclowns. 😉

"boundaries are a womans best friend"

That is so true, but don't have a different set of boundaries for the men that you date than you do for everyone else in your life. If you always see men as the enemy and they are soooo different than us then that is all you will ever get.

One thing that I'm absolutely sure of this guy is that he does not intend to hurt me. Give me some credit that I know what I'm doing. Him confusing me is one thing, but purposely hurting me is another and that is where I would draw the line. When a guy consciously begins to make his problems mine and it starts to hurt me then I'm done. When it stops being fun I'm out of there. I'm not that misguided to think that I will be the one to change someone and stay around and be used as a punching bag. I broke up with the last guy that I was dating because I found out that he had an addiction. A lot women would have stayed around and try to help him and fix him, but his addiction affected my happiness and my life and that's where I drew the line as much as it hurt me to let him go. You and I are not so different and believe me I am very educated about men and relationships in general and the biggest thing that I completely understand is that men and women are not that different.

I don't EXPECT to see assclown behavior, thats utterly futile and there is no fun in that kind of monitoring, it's not something I or women should be looking for, the behavior is very very subtle and some of these men are getting much better to read if a woman isn't living on planet her all the time she will sense that foreboding feeling that something isn't right and take heed, begin to ASK more questions in a non-threatening way but just in a way to let him know your not an easy mark, it lets him know your unique and fun and different from the herd of women that say and do the same thing all the time, everything should always be fun and lighthearted in the getting to know him process, yet don't dismiss his actions and words or the feelings that he brings up inside of you, it all means SOMETHING.

Once hooked on a man and he absolutely know your hooked and the woman didn't use any discernment to see if he's the real deal or a fake, well the circus begins and after it ends you look back and say why didn't I see that, not all assclowns are liars, not all have this horrific mask on that says I'm evil, its just women have conversations and MISS the clues that say this guy has issues or this guy is commitment phobic narcissistic sociopath, I thoroughly enjoy meeting men but I also know that there are certain behaviors some subtle and some not so subtle that women should be alerted to, its in the way he talks, his stance, his stare and some its a hypnotizing glare, sometimes its a foreboding feeling, sometimes its the men creating obstacles such as creating exes, causing confusion to distract a woman for seeing him for who he really is.

I don't take offense to bad behavior, that really doesn't make sense for me to do that, I don't call him out and scream liar LOL, these men are easy because they literally get rid of themselves if he can't make you BELIEVE in him, plus I recognize men date 10xs more than women so he's not just doing this dance with me so I can't get offended by that, most of these men do it to every woman he meets, there are certain women that are weaker emotionally and miss the subtle ques and these are the keepers for assclowns, the stronger woman is not an option because he can't play his man-boy games effectively.

GS good luck and keep us posted, I'm sure your very capable of handling this guy or any guy for that fact as for explaining my views etc, nah thats not my style but stick around the board, follow my post and you will begin to fit the pieces together d:

Thanks Tiki, I do agree with a lot of what you say and I have a lot of the same views. You can see that by the advice that I give others. I'm just a little on the softer side of things now. Like I said, since I have changed my tune and decided that men now need to prove to me that they are untrustworthy rather than trustworthy I have had much better luck with men because I am much more open to love and I'm not so fearful of getting hurt anymore. I had to decide that I am "trust worthy" which means that we women need to know that we are worthy of trust and if we expect trust and respect we will get it.

By the way, my ex kept his word and he left me a message last night about getting together this week. Wish me luck!! Thanks for all the advice and the debate. You did try to stop me from all of my crazy thinking about contacting him if I hadn't heard from him by next week and I appreciate that. I know I wouldn't have really contacted him though. That's not my style because I have too much pride, but I did think of it in the moment and I'm glad you were here to remind me what it means when a guy doesn't do what he says he is going to do. I had a moment of not being "trust worthy" 🙂

GSglove:
First I want to congratulate you on what seems to be a very mature and healthy view of relationships - knowing that you will be fine whatever the outcome, and knowing your worth without being one of those hardass bitches with too many rules takes a long time. From your last few posts, I think that whatever you decide to do about this guy will be the best way to go.

"One thing that I'm absolutely sure of this guy is that he does not intend to hurt me."
I think you have already made up your mind that you will meet this guy, if he is up for it. Read your last few comments, and you will see that is what is happening - you just needed to reassure yourself that it wouldn't be unwise. I really think that you should email him, and arrange to meet pretty soon. If you like what you see, meet him a couple more time, giving yourself the opportunity to back out if that is what is needed. However, if you continue to feel this way about him, you should tell him. We live in the 21st century girls, and there is something to be said for making the first move!

Tikki, I would also be interested to hear how you got to where you are now. I am not being sarcastic, but you do sound like you have had some interesting experiences.
There is also nothing wrong with dating a guy with issues - we all have them! Besides, I would have a hard time with an issueless parnter, as they would be less disposed to understand why MY issues are as they are.

As to the guy's daughter:
She wouldn't have been an issue when he first got in touch with glove, as he didn't know where it was going - for all he knew she could have been happily wed, at which point he could tell her about his daughter, and all would be ok, they would be just friends.
However, once he realised that she was single, and interested in meeting up, his daughter will become an issue: will it be good for her if I have a new girlfriend? Will the girlfriend mind that I have a daughter? I should take any relationship slowly, as I realise that it will affect my daughter to have loads of women coming in and out of my life etc.
I really think that he is taking the responsible approach to this.

Thank you Silverbow! I just returned his e-mail and told him that yes I still want to meet with him and that I was looking forward to it. I agree with you on the daughter thing. Maybe it is not what he is thinking, but it totally makes sense that he is considering his daughter in this and I think that is why he has not dated much over the last 6 years. When I was his girlfriend 18 years ago I was the only person in his life and now he has a daughter and that changes the dynamics in a relationship. I know that it makes me want to take things really slowly too. Thinking too far ahead though is what is making me have this impatient feeling and this feeling of "let's just get this over with and meet already so I can quit thinking about it." Part of me thinks it would be easier if I just see him and think "What did I ever see in him?", get some closure and move on. It's been over 2 months of this agonizing anticipation of seeing him again and I'm glad we are finally meeting.

I have never broken up with someone and then tried to go back again. I don't know why this guy is different, but he just is. I think it is just this psychic connection I feel with him. I knew over the years that he was thinking about me. I could feel him thinking about me. In fact I'm surprised that it took him this long to contact me again. The night before he contacted me on facebook I did a search for him because I just started to think about him for some reason and he had just signed up for Facebook 2 days before. I hadn't thought about him for at least 5 years before that night. The next morning he sent me an e-mail. I freaked out because I thought that he must have seen that I looked at his profile, but he swears that he had no idea and I confirmed it that you cannot see when someone is looking at your facebook. I can't just ignore that kind of coincidence. The universe has chosen to throw us back together for some reason, even if it is just to have some closure and I can't ignore that. I remember once about a year after we broke up I got a Hang-up call on Valentine's day and I knew it was him. I hit *69 and sure enough he answered the phone and then I hung up on him in my panic. He called back and I did not answer. I just let it go to my voicemail and he left a message apologising for calling and that he just wanted to hear my voice and know that I was O.K. and then he promised not to bother me again. I didn't call him back and he kept his promise. Until Now 13 years later!! 🙂

I never said HE was playing games, my post are not to tell women what to do, they are to make women get there head out of the clouds and THINK with color, GS is a grown woman, she can take care of herself I'm pretty sure of it, if this guy is playing games well he's playing games, it doesn't make much difference to me what he does, she said she was confused, I gave her a different point of view, I don't expect others to agree with what I say. There wouldn't be any relationships if women really knew the truth about men and men behavior patterns so I don't ever expect women to get what I'm saying, agree with it or even care about it. I do wish her luck and I'm sure she is very capable of making the right decisions for herself. The world keeps on turning as usual, even when some of the secrets of life are revealed. I enjoy life and I give different points of views but no one has to go by what I say, to each her own.

Well he definitly is being confusing. I responded to him and told him that I could meet him on Friday and he started to back track a little saying that he had to take his daughter on a field trip on Friday and that maybe we should meet next week instead so I waited a few hours and I answered his e-mail back by joking with him and saying.

"Hmmm, I'm starting to think you are just scared to see me. 😉"

He responded right away and said "Call me if you can right now" so I called him about a half hour later and he started saying that he was not scared to see me and then all of a sudden coffee was upgraded to dinner and now we are getting together tomorrow night for dinner instead. All his idea. We talked for about an hour on the phone. I can't tell if he is fearful of it or he was just trying to play it cool, but me challenging him definitely worked.

"well, no one can decide for gslove, but herself."

Unfortunately Archer, that is the truth. It doesn't mean I don't appreciate the advice though and want to hear all points of view. Even the ones I don't agree with. Sometimes we get advice that annoys us because someone is telling us something we already know or we don't feel like we are understood. I think most of us see very clearly when it is someone else, but when it comes to ourselves and our own emotions we can make some bad decisions because of our emotions. I know I have definitely been guilty of that. Sometimes we have to step out of ourselves to see the big picture. I have been trying to do that in this situation and so far I have not done anything that I wouldn't have advised someone else not to do, but I have come close a couple of times. So I like it that you guys are keeping me in check 😉

I wish decisions could be easier. The way I see it is that our only job in this world is that we need to make sure that we feel good every minute of every day which I know is not always possible, but I can definitely know that if more of my minutes are feeling bad instead of feeling good then I'm making the wrong decisions in my life.

Hell NO!!! He get's an e-card and that's it 😉 His birthday is December 10th. I'm going to try to find out what time he was born and see if I can get Elena to do a reading for me.

Haha!! He is so hilarious. He just sent me an e-mail asking me what he should wear tonight. I told him to wear a white jumpsuit to go with his dyed sideburns. (He told me in one of our converssations that he was going to dye his side burns so that I wouldn't see that he is going gray.)

hee hee.

I'm excited for you, girl! I hope all has gone well (you will have gone to dinner with him by now I think?)

Yep, we met and it was awesome!! We met at a coffee shop at 7p.m. and for the first 5 or 10 minutes we just kept looking at each other and smiling and telling each other how we hadn't changed a bit and then the conversation just started to flow while we were having some tea. Then after about an hour he suggested we get dinner. Almost immediately after sitting down to dinner he started questioning what it was that we were doing. Asking if I just wanted to be his friend or if we were on a date. I just said to him "Why do we have to define it right now. Let's just be in the moment and see what happens." He agreed. We had a long dragged out dinner for over 2 hours and the restaurant finally kicked us out because they were closing. We were walking towards our cars and he suggested we go across the street to have a drink at a bar. So we did and then got kicked out of there at 11:30 because they were closing. We started walking towards the cars again and walked past this seedy pool hall and he said how long it had been since he had played pool and suggested we go there. I laughed and said "you just don't want to get rid of me yet do you" He said "no I'm not ready to let you go" so we played pool and laughed and teased each other until we got kicked out of there because they were closing at about 1:30. So we finally got back to our cars and it was freezing so he suggested sitting in his car to warm up and say goodbye. So I started thinking uh oh, here comes the kiss. I kid you not we sat in that car until 5:00 in the morning just talking and he was a perfect gentleman. I kept saying I better go and he just kept talking. Finally at 5 a.m. I said I have to go now and that is when he said "Should we kiss?" I said of course, but he still hesitated and I was the one who leaned in for the kiss. We didn't majorly make out we just shared a few kisses and just held each other for a really long time just being in the moment. He said "Now what?" and I used the line from my favorite movie "About Last Night" the very last scene in the movie where they saw each other after they had broken up for a while where Demi Moore said to Rob Lowe "I'm just going to ride off into the sunset now". He started laughing and totally got it and knew it was from my favorite movie. I got home and was just starting to fall asleep and he called to see if I got home alright and said he would be calling me very soon. Now it's time to let it all marinate for a while.

gslove! That night sounds so romantic and fun! Being a sag I'd just die! And totally be calling you🙂 SPOT ON!

He called on Saturday just to say Hi but then did not mention going out again so of course I'm wondering what the hell is going through his head now. Wondering if he is regretting the things he has said or having second thoughts now. It is so hard to stay out of that fear place with this. I have been having all kinds of bad dreams about this. Insecurity dreams. I really need to throw myself into my work right now and try not to think about it.

I'll tell you, from the sagi point of view, if he kept on suggesting thst you go to these places, and keeping you there until they closed, he was having a great time. That's what it sounds like to me.
I seem to remember similar things happening to me, and just not wanting to let the person go. From my seat (in a library) it looks very promising, anyway 🙂 😄

CL, I love this thread too. It's like living vicariously through someone else's romance, but better than a book coz you know it's real!!!
Hope you don't mind my saying that, sglove?

LOL!! No I don't mind. You guys are too funny!! I would almost rather be you guys and be the observer in this though. It would be a lot less nerve wracking.😉 I keep thinking about the things that he said that night. Trying to disect it all. At the time I thought they were good things, but now that I haven't heard from for 2 days I'm not so sure. A couple of times he teased me and said that he didn't know what he was going to do with me. He said that he wasn't expecting to feel so many emotions and he was amazed that we would have so much more in common than we even used to after all of these years. At one point he even slipped and said I wasn't expecting that I would still be in love with you. He said he thought that it was just a fantasy that he had thought of me all of these years and that when he saw me again that maybe the feeling wouldn't be there anymore and then he could let it go. I agreed with him and said that I felt the same way. I let him do most of the heavy talking because I didn't want to say too much. I didn't want to scare him because he does a pretty good job of scaring himself. I just kept saying that I was just really enjoying the moment and how nothing has to be defined right now. I really meant it at the time, but look at me trying to define it now. LOL!!

On the negative side though he did say something that I took to mean that he wasn't sure he wanted to get into a relationship. He asked me if I ever just have casual relationships or if I was looking for something serious. I told him I only have sex with people who I think there is potential for a relationship. I think he is thinking long and hard about what it would mean to get involved with me again and that he wants to make sure he is ready for the kind of committment that he thinks that I want. Remember that is the reason we didn't stay together before. He couldn't committ. He also told me the other night. "I will never hurt you again" which is a pretty strong statement. He could have said "I don't ever WANT to hurt you again." My fear is that his way of never hurting me again may be him just going away.

God, yes!!! I hate it when men give promises like that, those kind of promises that are practically impossible to keep. I mean, if you get together, and are together for the rest ofyour lives, there will be arguments, and through arguments, there will be pain. Therefore, he has hurt you, and broken his promise. Even though he didn't mean to. If you know what I mean?

Yes Silverbow that's exactly what I think! I still hear from him every couple of days, but we still have not been out again and I have given up. I have also pulled way back now and have just had a "whatever" attitude with him which of course makes him feel safe to contact me more often. LOL!! A Homeopath that I work with who also reads tarot cards pretty well did a reading on him for me last night and she said that he is not ready to give up his bachelor life yet and now he is worrying about what he started with me and what he is capable of giving me right now and that he IS worried that he will hurt me. She said he went through a very bitter divorce and has always had it in his head to never marry again and even though he loves me he knows that I want and deserve more than he is willing to give. She also said that she sees two other females around him that are interested in him and he is liking the attention and this is why she thinks he is questioning making a commitment to one woman. She said that he will be in my life for a long time now, but that I will keep it to more of a friend relationship because I sense that he is not ready for anything more and that I will continue to date others and not hold much hope for him to ever come around. She also said that she sees him making a decision that he wants something serious with me in about a year, but that by that time I will have moved on to a guy in a white lab coat. She thinks he is a doctor maybe a pediatrician. That's so funny because someone else who did a reading for me about 4 years ago told me that he saw me with a guy wearing white in my 45th year. I do this mostly for entertainment and don't really put too much stock in what they say, but what she told me about my ex totally makes sense and his behavior is pointing to this all being true. She knew nothing about him at all. I just asked for a reading on my love life. She also picked up that he was someone from my past.

You don't have to be a psychic to know that this guy doesn't want a relationship right now. If he was interested we would have been out on another date by now. It's been almost two weeks since I have seen him. I guess I just have to chalk this up as a typical Sag male who will always have to much fear to commit. I think I will just step back and let him play with those other two women and avoid getting hurt again and just be his friend as sad as that makes me. Anyone know a single pediatrician?? 😉

GS I told ya!

Tiki, I'm so happy that I could give you the satisfaction of being right. One more story to confirm that all men are assholes and all women are just stupid and gullible. Congratulations!!!

Although you weren't really right. You made him out like he was some horrible monster that was out to manipulate and hurt me. Yes, I am disappointed, but I told you that was one thing that I was sure of is that he does not mean to purposely hurt me and I am right about that. He is human like everyone else and he could have very easily taken advantage of me and wooed me right back into his bed and he hasn't and I know that his feelings for me are real and I will still never allow myself to ever become as cynical and bitter about men and people in general as you are.

Uh oh, He just e-mailed me a Christmas card as I was writing this to you. Do you think he is scheming more ways to hurt me Tiki?? LOL!! I could just hate him the rest of my life or I can continue to be his friend. I think I pick the latter. It took a lot of guts for him to contact me after all of these years and apologise and tell me how he feels and I will not fault him for that. Him contacting me again totally validated that relationship and gave me closure and for that I am happy.