Yum
@Yum
18 Years1,000+ Posts
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Circumcision debate settled?
"My personal view on it-outside of Africa, is that it may have some horrid damage on the future peace of the new born child. Jews and Mussies-they seem a bit strung out on GazZa-what's that all about?"
Well, in all fairness many American Christians are also cut and they seem...oh. Oh damn.
Well, in all fairness many American Christians are also cut and they seem...oh. Oh damn.
Heh, that's what I like about you Calthorpe - half the time I haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about.😛
hmmm interesting; i read another article awhile back where some adult men were annoyed and unhappy with being circ'd at birth for whatever reason, and of having no say or consultation of their own bodies. Subsequently as adults, some had decided on elective surgery to give' em back what God gave them, (for good reason, though it couldn't have been easy) i can only presume ..Not all men are careless sexually, hygenically or virus carriers. Even religion doesn't cut it for many, i'm guessing. Maybe? men should be of at least consenting age, before the big snip.
Posted by calthorpe
Half the time is good. I feel a bond already.
how's it going with the Sag girl? Or did you beat her up and lock her in the house till she wins a few Grammys? hmm?
Haha, you kidder you. Now why would I go and do a silly thing like that? I mean, apart from the immense wealth and fame that would fall in my lap.
Also, big news:
"Botswana plans to circumcise nearly half a million
19 hours ago
GABORONE (AFP) — Botswana, which has one of the world's highest HIV infection rates, has launched a scheme to circumcise nearly half a million men to curb the spread the disease, the health ministry said Thursday.
The country hopes to circumcise 460,000 men over the next five years, after a series of studies found that circumcised men were two to three times less likely to contract HIV, said Janet Mwambona, a public health specialist in charge of the project.
"For the public health benefits of the preventive effect of circumcision to be realised, the Ministry of Health is supposed to cover 80 percent of eligible males in Botswana," she said.
Government is running television and radio campaigns to encourage men to visit clinics for safe circumcision procedures.
"All primary and district hospitals are currently booking clients and performing the procedure," added Mwambona.
About 50 healthcare providers, including 27 doctors have undergone training on surgical circumcision.
The rapid spread of HIV and AIDS once threatened the survival of the approximately two million people of the land-locked southern African country, until the introduction of antiretroviral drugs in 2003.
According to a 2005 UNAIDS report, Botswana's HIV prevalence among pregnant women between the ages of 15 and 24 has stayed between 35 and 37 percent since 2001.
The rate among the older pregnant women was last measured at 43 percent in 2003."
"Where have you been? You pain."
That's the downside of being an international spy-cum-rockstar, you always have to keep on top of things and rarely have the time to kick back and relax. They never tell you these things at recruitment.
"For that i wont talk or decode my sausage roll song. Humph. "
I, uh, see. Sausage roll. Of course.
"Where have you been? You pain. For that i wont talk or decode my sausage roll song. Humph.
BTW-less sensation. I don't need stats, just my head."
For your benefit, I emboldened the parts I actually understood. Yeah, roughly half.
That's the downside of being an international spy-cum-rockstar, you always have to keep on top of things and rarely have the time to kick back and relax. They never tell you these things at recruitment.
"For that i wont talk or decode my sausage roll song. Humph. "
I, uh, see. Sausage roll. Of course.
"Where have you been? You pain. For that i wont talk or decode my sausage roll song. Humph.
BTW-less sensation. I don't need stats, just my head."
For your benefit, I emboldened the parts I actually understood. Yeah, roughly half.
i've never seen an uncircumsized peen so i just googled it 😏
LOL^^ Me either but I'm too chicken to look 😛
Posted by DepressedAngel
Dunno about you folks over there (geez Americans get stranger by the second) - but we don't snip important parts.
Maybe that's why certain parts of the world fear the American way of life.... just sayin'
so what you're saying is that you aren't snipped 😉
wow cool. I didn't think circumcision was such a big decision lol
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/24/health/policy/24circumcision.html?_r=1&src=sch>Some more circumcision news:
But Dr. Peter Kilmarx, chief of epidemiology for the division of H.I.V./AIDS prevention at the C.D.C., said that any step that could thwart the spread of H.I.V. must be given serious consideration.
—We have a significant H.I.V. epidemic in this country, and we really need to look carefully at any potential intervention that could be another tool in the toolbox we use to address the epidemic,?? Dr. Kilmarx said. —What we've heard from our consultants is that there would be a benefit for infants from infant circumcision, and that the benefits outweigh the risks.??
He and other experts acknowledged that although the clinical trials of circumcision in Africa had dramatic results, the effects of circumcision in the United States were likely to be more muted because the disease is less prevalent here, because it spreads through different routes and because the health systems are so disparate as to be incomparable.
Clinical trials in Kenya, South Africa and Uganda found that heterosexual men who were circumcised were up to 60 percent less likely to become infected with H.I.V. over the course of the trials than those who were not circumcised.
There is little to no evidence that circumcision protects men who have sex with men from infection.
...
Circumcision rates have fallen in part because the American Academy of Pediatrics, which sets the guidelines for infant care, does not endorse routine circumcision. Its policy says that circumcision is —not essential to the child??s current well-being,?? and as a result, many state Medicaid programs do not cover the operation.
The academy is revising its guidelines, however, and is likely to do away with the neutral tone in favor of a more encouraging policy stating that circumcision has health benefits even beyond H.I.V. prevention, like reducing urinary tract infections for baby boys, said Dr. Michael Brady, a consultant to the American Academy of Pediatrics."
But Dr. Peter Kilmarx, chief of epidemiology for the division of H.I.V./AIDS prevention at the C.D.C., said that any step that could thwart the spread of H.I.V. must be given serious consideration.
—We have a significant H.I.V. epidemic in this country, and we really need to look carefully at any potential intervention that could be another tool in the toolbox we use to address the epidemic,?? Dr. Kilmarx said. —What we've heard from our consultants is that there would be a benefit for infants from infant circumcision, and that the benefits outweigh the risks.??
He and other experts acknowledged that although the clinical trials of circumcision in Africa had dramatic results, the effects of circumcision in the United States were likely to be more muted because the disease is less prevalent here, because it spreads through different routes and because the health systems are so disparate as to be incomparable.
Clinical trials in Kenya, South Africa and Uganda found that heterosexual men who were circumcised were up to 60 percent less likely to become infected with H.I.V. over the course of the trials than those who were not circumcised.
There is little to no evidence that circumcision protects men who have sex with men from infection.
...
Circumcision rates have fallen in part because the American Academy of Pediatrics, which sets the guidelines for infant care, does not endorse routine circumcision. Its policy says that circumcision is —not essential to the child??s current well-being,?? and as a result, many state Medicaid programs do not cover the operation.
The academy is revising its guidelines, however, and is likely to do away with the neutral tone in favor of a more encouraging policy stating that circumcision has health benefits even beyond H.I.V. prevention, like reducing urinary tract infections for baby boys, said Dr. Michael Brady, a consultant to the American Academy of Pediatrics."
YUM-there was something in the papers about something to do with a new vaccine to do with aids and something. It didn't mention penises.
I bet i saw it before you. Double humph.
I bet i saw it before you. Double humph.
The skin is there for many reasons, one of which to protect from dryness, discomfort & chaffing. i agree, it's not hard for a guy to keep clean in this modern day and age. To chop off a body part so it's "easier to clean" is barbaric. As for STD's, i don't think we should model the rest of the world by another continent's 'sexual habits/standards', or people in general who are sexually careless. Male circumcision IS neural and vascular damage to the penis.. Obviously an undamaged penis feels and functions much better than a damaged one. The foreskin is a vital part of the male sex organ - a male birthright, not a defect. Female circ is seen as barbaric and unacceptable, there should be no difference with males. Females actually have "more" hidden areas to clean than males. Why not let a fully grown, mature male decide his own genital fate if he so chooses, not others who arn't sharing his vital body parts. Thankfully, some circ'd males are now finding the benefits of surgical re-attachment in their adult years. Only it didn't have to be this way ..
***
Circumcision (loss of the foreskin) makes the following changes:
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
Neonatal circumcision is often done with inadequate pain relief. The child is subjected to intense pain for up to 15 minutes. This pain may leave a child with post-traumatic stress disorder, which is debilitating even for adults who can receive therapy for it. For a baby, it could lead to all sorts of hidden but significant psychological problems in later life.
Life Threatening
About 500 babies per year die from complications of circumcision - usually from blood loss, infection or anaesthetic problems.
Sensitivity Loss
When the foreskin is removed half the penile sensitivity is instantly lost, BUT at the same time the glans is exposed, making it SEEM more sensitive. After that, the glans keratinizes, making it very slowly get less sensitive - so slowly that it's hard to notice a difference. This is not 'healing' - it will feel better, but only because it's being so badly damaged that the nerves are being deadened. In the end, there's a big difference (up to 75% sensitivity loss). Nerve endings don't grow back, and a penis that has lost so many cannot possibly feel as sensitive as it did before. But like the proverbial frog cooking slowly on a hotplate and not noticing the difference in heat, a man who gets a circumcision might think that his penis feels the same, but he just (..continued)
***
Circumcision (loss of the foreskin) makes the following changes:
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
Neonatal circumcision is often done with inadequate pain relief. The child is subjected to intense pain for up to 15 minutes. This pain may leave a child with post-traumatic stress disorder, which is debilitating even for adults who can receive therapy for it. For a baby, it could lead to all sorts of hidden but significant psychological problems in later life.
Life Threatening
About 500 babies per year die from complications of circumcision - usually from blood loss, infection or anaesthetic problems.
Sensitivity Loss
When the foreskin is removed half the penile sensitivity is instantly lost, BUT at the same time the glans is exposed, making it SEEM more sensitive. After that, the glans keratinizes, making it very slowly get less sensitive - so slowly that it's hard to notice a difference. This is not 'healing' - it will feel better, but only because it's being so badly damaged that the nerves are being deadened. In the end, there's a big difference (up to 75% sensitivity loss). Nerve endings don't grow back, and a penis that has lost so many cannot possibly feel as sensitive as it did before. But like the proverbial frog cooking slowly on a hotplate and not noticing the difference in heat, a man who gets a circumcision might think that his penis feels the same, but he just (..continued)
..doesn't notice the difference because the process takes so long.
Failure to Heal
A circumcised penis can never 'heal completely'. The penis has been permanently damaged.
Size
After neonatal or childhood circumcision, it's believed that the growth of the penis is retarded, causing the adult penis to be smaller than it would have been if the foreskin had been left intact.
Further Damage
After the glans is exposed, the 'pearly penile papules' around the corona (rim of the glans) tend to disappear. These structures are poorly understood, but may increase sexual pleasure for either the male or the female.
Loss of Function
The foreskin is an entire mechanism, including skin, muscle, mucous membrane and supporting structures. Cutting it off is not only excruciatingly painful, but it cripples the penis, destroying a large part of it, including the penis's only moving part, making the whole organ incapable of ever functioning the way nature intended and making sexual intercourse that much more difficult.
Difficulty Entering the Vagina
A circumcised penis has no foreskin to help the man enter a woman's vagina. When used correctly, the foreskin is pushed forward to facilitate comfortable entry - it unfolds as the penis pushes into the vagina. A man who has no foreskin cannot do this, so he must use lubricant.
Need For More Lubrication
With the foreskin gone, a couple needs to use lubrication during sex to keep the vagina moist. An uncircumcised man needs none - his foreskin forms a seal with the vaginal wall, reducing the need for lubrication and keeping the vaginal fluids where they belong.
Increased Risk of Infection
A circumcised penis is more likely to get infected than an intact penis.
Erectile Dysfunction
Those who have been circumcised suffer from sexual problems throughout the rest of their lives: they more easily develop erectile dysfunction as they get older. Some unfortunate victims find the loss of sensitivity so severe that they cannot orgasm even at a young age.
No Advantage in Terms of Cleanliness
Many people have been led to believe that circumcision is cleaner. But a circumcised penis is no cleaner than an intact penis. Both need to be gently rinsed clean while showering.
Failure to Heal
A circumcised penis can never 'heal completely'. The penis has been permanently damaged.
Size
After neonatal or childhood circumcision, it's believed that the growth of the penis is retarded, causing the adult penis to be smaller than it would have been if the foreskin had been left intact.
Further Damage
After the glans is exposed, the 'pearly penile papules' around the corona (rim of the glans) tend to disappear. These structures are poorly understood, but may increase sexual pleasure for either the male or the female.
Loss of Function
The foreskin is an entire mechanism, including skin, muscle, mucous membrane and supporting structures. Cutting it off is not only excruciatingly painful, but it cripples the penis, destroying a large part of it, including the penis's only moving part, making the whole organ incapable of ever functioning the way nature intended and making sexual intercourse that much more difficult.
Difficulty Entering the Vagina
A circumcised penis has no foreskin to help the man enter a woman's vagina. When used correctly, the foreskin is pushed forward to facilitate comfortable entry - it unfolds as the penis pushes into the vagina. A man who has no foreskin cannot do this, so he must use lubricant.
Need For More Lubrication
With the foreskin gone, a couple needs to use lubrication during sex to keep the vagina moist. An uncircumcised man needs none - his foreskin forms a seal with the vaginal wall, reducing the need for lubrication and keeping the vaginal fluids where they belong.
Increased Risk of Infection
A circumcised penis is more likely to get infected than an intact penis.
Erectile Dysfunction
Those who have been circumcised suffer from sexual problems throughout the rest of their lives: they more easily develop erectile dysfunction as they get older. Some unfortunate victims find the loss of sensitivity so severe that they cannot orgasm even at a young age.
No Advantage in Terms of Cleanliness
Many people have been led to believe that circumcision is cleaner. But a circumcised penis is no cleaner than an intact penis. Both need to be gently rinsed clean while showering.
Circumcision is a Woman's Problem Too
The circumcised penis usually gives less pleasure to the woman because the foreskin that gives the uncircumcised penis its gliding motion is no longer there. As a result of this, and as a result of the loss of sensitivity involved in a circumcised penis, the man has to push harder and more roughly to get the same feeling that an uncircumcised penis would give. All this, combined with the roughness and dryness of the keratinized glans, results in a less comfortable and less pleasurable experience for the woman. The circumcised penis can cause chafing and discomfort that may lead to vaginal infection. The foreskin is designed to prevent these problems. Many female partners of circumcised males have been led to assume that feminine dryness is a common female ailment when in fact it's a male problem caused by the loss of the foreskin.
The circumcised penis usually gives less pleasure to the woman because the foreskin that gives the uncircumcised penis its gliding motion is no longer there. As a result of this, and as a result of the loss of sensitivity involved in a circumcised penis, the man has to push harder and more roughly to get the same feeling that an uncircumcised penis would give. All this, combined with the roughness and dryness of the keratinized glans, results in a less comfortable and less pleasurable experience for the woman. The circumcised penis can cause chafing and discomfort that may lead to vaginal infection. The foreskin is designed to prevent these problems. Many female partners of circumcised males have been led to assume that feminine dryness is a common female ailment when in fact it's a male problem caused by the loss of the foreskin.
What I find curious about circumcision is that males have foreskins for a reason... to protect the penis when it is not erect... which is most of the time. Another odd thing about our foreskins is, and I was shocked to find out because of the internet... is that unlike mine, which retracts completely when my penis becomes fully erect, so much so that I appear to be circumcised, that many mens foreskins do not retract... and instead extend with the rest of the penis and remain covering three quarters of the penis, with only the tip of the penis head revealed. I must wonder how those men whose foreskins do not fully retract as mine does, are able to keep the "under-rim" area of the penis head clean... and if these studies about circumcision and HIV include both kinds of foreskin placements?
Posted by ~mystic_fish
Difficulty Entering the Vagina
A circumcised penis has no foreskin to help the man enter a woman's vagina. When used correctly, the foreskin is pushed forward to facilitate comfortable entry - it unfolds as the penis pushes into the vagina. A man who has no foreskin cannot do this, so he must use lubricant.
Need For More Lubrication
With the foreskin gone, a couple needs to use lubrication during sex to keep the vagina moist. An uncircumcised man needs none - his foreskin forms a seal with the vaginal wall, reducing the need for lubrication and keeping the vaginal fluids where they belong.
Statements such as these, totally boggle my mind. Am I so odd? When totally soft, my penis is about two inches long with the head only visible at the opening of the foreskin about the size of a dime. When fully erect, it is of average length at six inches, and NO foreskin is visible. I would appear to be circumcised to an unknowing person. Once erect and before or during sexual intercourse, there is no movement of my foreskin whatsoever. Foreskin "pushed forward" prior to entry— there is no foreskin to push forward on my penis... it's gone... till I go soft... then my penis retracts and the foreskin again covers 90% of the shaft and head.
Until I saw pictures on the internet that proved otherwise, I always assumed that my penis, and the penis's of other human males behaved exactly like other mammal penis's, such as the horse, and cattle... which I had seen as a child. Their penis's fully extend to the point that no foreskin is seen.... and when they go soft, completely retract into the protection of their foreskins.
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"The clinical trials included in the review took place in South Africa, Uganda, and Kenya between 2002 and 2006, and included a total of 11,054 men. The results show that circumcision in heterosexual men significantly reduces their risk of acquiring HIV by 54% over a two year period, compared with uncircumcised men. This reduced risk is the best estimate of the average effect and the researchers report that the true risk will be reduced by between 38 to 66% . Further research, however, is required to establish whether male circumcision offers any benefit to women partners of circumcised men and homosexual men."
Interesting. Do you think circumcision would become widespread in Africa? How about other continents?
Personally, I doubt science would convince most people to have their boy snipped, as it is a very personal, emotional affair(it seems seriously impossible to talk calmly about the issue, it usually devolves to "mutilated penis" this, and "ugly egg roll" that), but who knows? Africa could certainly benefit from the practice.