Homecoming ....

It appears that all those 400 children who were removed from the Ranch in Texas are going back home.

Originally, people were up in arms, thinking these kids were being abused ... however, if the courts have found this claim unjustified, then perhaps the social welfare went on a frenzy of hysteria, which led to removing kids from their homes.

That's pretty sad .. psychological trauma right there, and I wonder if the state is even concerned that by doing this, that they may have caused more damage to some of these children by ripping them away from thier families, than their religious belief.

I bet if they did some DNA tests, they might find something less than savory about that cult.....

I didn't mean to infer that I think this cult is good for the children to live in .... what I meant was, it was damaging to them psychologically to just "rip" them away from their homes and families like that.

When we come across children, or even adults for that matter, who have been traumatized .. we don't just throw them in the water and say, "sink or swim".

They did the wrong thing for these kids .. it was completely mis-handled, and I think this is what the court has recognized because it has been ordered that they be supervised by the social welfare and that the parents, as well as the kids, have to attend classes.

You can't just come in and snatch children away from a life- style in which they know not that it is wrong .. home is where they feel safe, is thier comfort zone ... they were literally taken away from the very people in which make them feel loved, even if this love seems unnacceptable to society.

It was handled wrong .. and I'd warrant that some of these kids were greatly damaged by this act. If they wanted to protect the children, then they should have done so with the kids emotional well-being in mind and took great care .. instead of just thinking about righteousness, which led to being arrogant into thinking thier desires to snatch those kids out was above the emotional benefit of the kids.



If the children need to be removed for their benefit, then sobeit, but, you can't just tear them away from their families like that .. their hearts are tender and their brains CANNOT rationalize like an adult.

Sounds like a lion pride.

A bunch of perversions in that Jeffs sect. They swapped wives after a few years to keep things lively.

Too bad the teenage boys couldn't wait another 20 years to marry their newborn half sisters.

Whats the lesser evil...

The system or where they know?


Im pretty sure wherever they would be placed couldnt handle a 400 child influx anyway.


However, I dont condone 50 yr old men marrying 12 yr olds.

Obviously, there was no supporting evidence.

As tight as our system is about child abuse, there's no way those kids would have been reurned if the accusations had ground .. hell, we'll strike out at teachers for taking a tone, and call it abuse.

So, in reality ... these cult wasn't doing anything to hurt the kids according to America's standards.

agreed .. they certainly have grounds.

I was reading something and it was suggesting that the person who called the authorities and made false claims was actually an adult woman living in a nearby town who just didn't like having a religious sect like theirs, and so was made the phone call pretending to be a sixteen-year-old getting abused.

The psychological damage and trauma done to these kids by the state is not acceptable and just because a person doesn't approval of their standard of living doesn't make it justified to damage these children by taking them away from their families.

There's no evidence to support they were being abused at the Ranch (which is in Texas, not Utah < for Miss Clued-In, so next time she'll know what she's talking about), and furthermore, for a person to live within their cultures standards isn't abuse, no matter what the practice is.

Find someone else to bicker with VGM ... I don't have time for your immaturity today.

World U.S. N.Y.

By RALPH BLUMENTHAL
Published: May 30, 2008

HOUSTON ? Bringing polygamist families closer to regaining custody of their children, a divided Supreme Court of Texas agreed Thursday that the state had illegally seized 468 girls and boys from a West Texas ranch last month on unproven grounds of physical and sexual abuse.

State officials said they would move swiftly to return the children.

The decision upholding a ruling of the Third Court of Appeals last week directed a state judge to revoke the custody order taking the children from the Yearning for Zion ranch in Eldorado.

But it gave no timetable for their return and said that the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services could still seek authority to protect any of the children in individual cases.

The decision was supported in full by six justices; three justices dissented in part.

In a statement after the ruling, Patrick Crimmins, a spokesman for the Department of Family and Protective Services, which won custody of the children after a raid on April 3, said, ?We are disappointed, but we understand and respect the court's decision and will take immediate steps to comply.?


---------------------------------


This really speaks volumes at how fucked up people are in the US can be because of being so self-righteous in thinking we know what's good for others = utter arrogance. We pride ourselves on being humanitarians, and convince people that the we things like this for the betterment of society, just like invading other countries ... when in reality, because we are such pompous asses, we just "seize" what we think is right, without much consideration that the whole point is suppose to be about "helping".

At this point ... it is no longer relevant on whether these kids are being abused or not, for we can't help them, if they are ... because we illegally removed them, and so now there will be an aquittal, if evidence is found for prosecuting ....... so in reality, because we did our normal American thing and thought we were above the law, we in essence might have tied our own hands in providing protection, if warranted.

No wonder people look at us like we're fools sometimes ... we think we have all this power being put in the right place, but, shoot ourselves in the foot because of arrogance.

kenny, this thread isn't in place to discuss whether a person feels what is happening on the Ranch is right or wrong .. though it appears that many people cannot seperate their own personal judgements of the cult, itself, to comprehend what I'm trying to point out.

< Used to that .... people normally only contemplate subjectively.


My point was .............. there is NO help that can be provided to these children, IF, they were/are indeed being abused ... because we handled it the wrong way, and our judicial system will have to honor their error of not providing justice in snatching the kids without evidence that supercedes REAL aid to the children.

In essence ... by storming the place with guns and seizing the children without evidence, actually HURT the children MORE than the cult is doing because it is PREVENTING anyone from being able to in the future, who in reality ...... we have to let the children STAY WITHIN THIER ENVIRONMENT due to our error.

If you cannot grasp what I am saying .. then sobeit, however, those who know what I am saying .. do.

If the children were left with these families, they would feel that their voices were not worth listening to. It is wrong and goes against humanity.

The reason cult religions close themselves off from mainstream society is because this is the only way they can indoctrinate young chidren successfully because their 'way of life' is normal to these children for lack of comparison to the 'real world'.

I read somewhere that Jeffs was "was sentenced (in November)to two consecutive sentences of five years to life in prison in Utah for being an accomplice to the rape of a 14-year-old girl who wed her cousin in an arranged marriage in 2001."

"In November, he was sentenced to two consecutive sentences of five years to life in prison in Utah for being an accomplice to the rape of a 14-year-old girl who wed her cousin in an arranged marriage in 2001."

Random parts of the article-

"The Third Court of Appeals in Austin ruled last week that the state failed to show that any more than five of the teenage girls were being sexually abused, and had offered no evidence of sexual or physical abuse against the other children."

We failed to help those kids because of our mind being blinded to what is right, and only focusing on righteousness .. which aren't the same.

One is a correct path for REAL aid .. the other is arrogance.

Imagine this:

You live your whole life in a cage .. and you THINK this is normal, you think this is safe .. you think this is life .. and you are happy because you are loved and happy.

Then someone snatches you from your environment, and throws you into one that is scarry .. you are frightened because it is alien to you, and your family isn't there .. and all this space to feel lost in .. you want your cage back because that is all you know.

Then you begin to realize that other people don't live in this cage, other people are free to roam and they aren't frightened in all this space .. you begin to see that whoever put you in that cage was wrong, you begin to become adjusted, and you begin to understand that you were actually being harmed by living in this cage ... you start to feel like this different life is good, and you begin to want to be free.

You are told by your rescuers that they will help you, they are there for you, they won't let anything bad happen to you again .... they won't let anyone put you in a cage again.

Then you get snatched away again .... and put back into this very cage .. only NOW you realize that living in this cage isn't right, and it's not normal, it is actually harming you ... and NOW you are even more terrified because there are people out there who are AWARE that you are suffering, and they lied to you and told you they would never let anyone put you in a cage again, they would protect you.

Here you are ... compelely forsaken by the very ones who vowed to protect you from your cage of life.




Now, take this to a child's level, where they do NOT have the sensibilities and reason of an adult ...... the ONLY thing they will be able to comprehend is FEAR .. helpless, hopeless TERROR.

They weren't terrified BEFORE we forsake them .... but, they are now .... and it's because we failed them.

By doing what we did THE WRONG WAY ... we have essentially harmed them worse than they were being hurt by the cult.

"P-Angel is exactly what I talk about when I say I don't get Pisces... They talk on one level and I talk on an entirely different level."


Had you been able to comprehend what the topic subject was, then I wouldn't have HAD to give an example on a simpler level for you.

Keep up, or at least try ... and you could be awesome, also.