Spin-off! Taurus and thier Need to Critique.

Posted by Nefer

If I care about you that much, I care about your opinion of me.. but more than that, I value my OWN opinion of me.. And if you're criticizing me, you're saying there is something so very WRONG with me that it needs to be addressed.. that you are moved to tell me this thing you feel needs changed.. not in my own time, or my own way, by my own realization and personal growth... but because YOU think this is something *I* need to change, something you find unacceptable enough to bring up.

So you give me criticism, well-meaning advice, or pointers, or suggestions.. that I never asked for, cuz I can handle my own and been getting along just fine, tyvm.. And then it feels/becomes something you're PUSHING me on.. something you're trying to CONTROL about me.. and I balk and dig in my heels, and the horse starts to buck you off. The stubborn side flares and throws up a defensive wall.. how DARE you point fingers at me, when you're no better?.. If I'm not 'good enough' then fuck you too.. And then I shut down, so you can't hurt me, BECAUSE I care about you.. BECAUSE I don't want to unleash those hurtful words and possibly damage something beyond repair.

If it's something that TRULY needs changed, something that does not serve ME well (NOT something that does not serve YOU well, mind you!).. the seed will be planted and eventually this change will be incorporated. But don't keep bringing it up.. cuz I'll dig that fucker up with a spade just for SPITE. Just cuz you can't FORCE me to do anything.

Posted by caligula

Posted by Nefer
"Why do you always DO that?"

i should have that framed. i find myself saying that A LOT lately. and i get the same reaction.

i don't think yall realize how unconventional you can be at times. it's not so much that you don't do things "my" way, but you don't do things like normal folk PERIOD and by virtue of that, your odd behavior stands out and begs the question, "why do you always do that?"

i agree that you should be allowed to be as odd as a you wanna be, but it is a bit much at times.

where aquarius is weird on purpose, pisces is weird by nature.

click to expand

Before I start...Yes, I know alot of bulls are not like this, I've seen its probably bulls with fire placements either on the cusp or in their chart in general.

I just felt a need to repost this,( more out of respect to the other thread..didn't want to derail it) but because I feel like this is completely reflective of ME and my relationship with my Taurus. I don't take critcism as well ethier(i've been accused of and I accept that I get defensive and I'm working on it), but when the criticism comes in a trivial form,(why do you ALWAYS DO THAT?) it hurts. It just begs the idea(to me) that something trivial, what bothers you should be tolerated, it's a quirk. IT isn't something that should be said unless you're (to me) just trying to find reasons that you don't like this person.


When he does this, my mind goes back to all the other things that bother me about HIM and why at that time, I never mentioned it, why? Because it's trivial it's a quirk..its something I just tolerate because in the long run, it isn't a big deal.

But does he feel/think like that? Nope, not at all.

So it hurts..and from this end, I feel like i'm caught in a cycle of having my ego constantly chipped at, and it doesn't seem like it's for the better.

So, like to whomever ever had this problem or felt that their SO is weird and you had to feel the need to tell them this.


Why do you do that? What do you propose someone would do with that information? And why would one consider it an affront when one doesn't see it that way?

I didn't really read the quotes, but I read what you wrote and good thread. I'm no Taurus, but I've never thought about this. I can be irritated by quirks and have found myself in situations where I nag and once the person blows up on me about things they are irritated by I have nothing to say. Didn't realize that the person is possibly doing the same thing you are, which is tolerating it.

Maybe one good blow up is needed so he can see that he's not the only one irritated by certain things, yet he's the only one that feels need to constantly critique. I don't think he realizes he hurts you, and by you brushing all of his quirks aside I don't think he realizes he's not perfect in your eyes.

Posted by lnana04
I didn't really read the quotes, but I read what you wrote and good thread. I'm no Taurus, but I've never thought about this. I can be irritated by quirks and have found myself in situations where I nag and once the person blows up on me about things they are irritated by I have nothing to say. Didn't realize that the person is possibly doing the same thing you are, which is tolerating it.

Maybe one good blow up is needed so he can see that he's not the only one irritated by certain things, yet he's the only one that feels need to constantly critique. I don't think he realizes he hurts you, and by you brushing all of his quirks aside I don't think he realizes he's not perfect in your eyes.

That's the thing..I find shit like that petty..it's like "who cares?" Does it really matter? Does that truly make life for you unbearable? Do you really think this will make me a better person?

Is it a control thing? I have an earth moon, control means a hell of a lot to me, so i'm extra sensitive to people trying to exert control. Which is what these instances feel like.

I wouldn't go out and say it's mental abuse, though.

it's amazing that your ignant ass was able to draw the conclusion that it's a taurean need to critique from that thread. my being a taurean didn't have shit to do with it, but hey, you're dating a taurus so i guess it's easier to point the finger at someone else rather than recognize that you're a fuck up.

taureans do NOT feel the NEED to critique others. when/if we do critique, we're more likely to keep those judgements to ourselves. why? because we can't be bothered. there are far too many shits in the world for me to walk around with a tissue.

even in terms of loved ones, i don't NEED to critique you. i don't even have to open my mouth. you will know by either my lack of enthusiasm or silence whether or not i agree/disagree with you. i'm not going to shit on your party, but i'll be damned if i cheer as you tell me how you're going to drive yourself off a cliff.

i think your issue is that when taurus does choose to critique, it's typically matter of fact and yes, the more fire placements in the chart, the blunter and harsher that critique will be. this may not be the way we intended it to come across, but hey, the truth hurt dun'it?

in terms of your relationship, how bouts you stop fucking up? how bouts you learn to stop doing stupid shit so that he doesn't have to read and write your ass? or better yet, how bouts you get a fucking back bone, stand up for yourself and refuse to change simply because he said so?

oh that's right...you change because he's right and therein lies the problem eh?

A critique isn't the truth..it's a critique. It's an opinion.

I'm not drawing a conclusion on all tauruses, I said in my first sentence, that I know it doesn't apply to all, just some with fire placements because I've known several taurus people that've done this..that act like that and they all had some fire in their chart. I made the thread (as opposed to derailing yours by posting on a different topic) As it's something I'm trying to understand. Thanks for getting defensive.

I could care less whether you think I have a backbone, the issue isn't about whether I choose to stand up to someone critiquing me, the issue is to understand where that desire comes from, because I don't feel that way. It's the complete opposite of the way I handle, things, how I live with others..etc.etc. And half the times I would love to tell said person to "stop being a bitch and man the fuck up", but I don't like saying things like that to my loved ones.

Posted by TheBeautifulStruggle

Posted by lnana04
I didn't really read the quotes, but I read what you wrote and good thread. I'm no Taurus, but I've never thought about this. I can be irritated by quirks and have found myself in situations where I nag and once the person blows up on me about things they are irritated by I have nothing to say. Didn't realize that the person is possibly doing the same thing you are, which is tolerating it.

Maybe one good blow up is needed so he can see that he's not the only one irritated by certain things, yet he's the only one that feels need to constantly critique. I don't think he realizes he hurts you, and by you brushing all of his quirks aside I don't think he realizes he's not perfect in your eyes.

That's the thing..I find shit like that petty..it's like "who cares?" Does it really matter? Does that truly make life for you unbearable? Do you really think this will make me a better person?

Is it a control thing? I have an earth moon, control means a hell of a lot to me, so i'm extra sensitive to people trying to exert control. Which is what these instances feel like.

I wouldn't go out and say it's mental abuse, though.

click to expand

With me its not a control thing at all. I'm just easily irritated, but ask him what you just posted here. His constant critiquing is annoying you so again, bring it to his attention so he can stop.

I critique, but not because I have a need to control, which I find my sister a Sag, believes. I dont want to control anyone, I have a hard enough time controlling myself. The reason I critique is a little bit like Virgo. I critique because I feel like my honest opinion would be helpful and because I desire the same from others around me. I absolutely love me, I can admit there are things I need to change pronto, but for the most part I think Im pretty damn fly. lol It takes the honest critiques of others to allow me to see the things I cannot see for whatever reason. I just figure that if someone isn't doing anything about an obvious situation then they might fail to realize it exists or they simply cant figure out the solution...well no fear, I will offer my honest opinion and even my physical efforts if I have the time. Its not a matter of trying to control, but doing for you want I would appreciate someone doing for me. If you don't like it just say so....but dont try to say the problem doesnt exists lol. That drives me crazy. Just because you don't like the solution doesnt mean the problem doesn't exist. lol Just say "while I appreciate your input, thank you, I think I'd rather do it my way/I'd rather ignore it"

Posted by TheBeautifulStruggle
A critique isn't the truth..it's a critique. It's an opinion.

I'm not drawing a conclusion on all tauruses, I said in my first sentence, that I know it doesn't apply to all, just some with fire placements because I've known several taurus people that've done this..that act like that and they all had some fire in their chart. I made the thread (as opposed to derailing yours by posting on a different topic) As it's something I'm trying to understand. Thanks for getting defensive.

I could care less whether you think I have a backbone, the issue isn't about whether I choose to stand up to someone critiquing me, the issue is to understand where that desire comes from, because I don't feel that way. It's the complete opposite of the way I handle, things, how I live with others..etc.etc. And half the times I would love to tell said person to "stop being a bitch and man the fuck up", but I don't like saying things like that to my loved ones.

defensive? *lol*

see, this is why you're stupid and this is why you'll continue having trouble with your man.

as the above poster stated, if it doesn't pertain to you, if the critique is wrong, why the hell are you getting offended? if you're secure/sure that you/your way is "right," why does his critique bother you?

the only reason to get upset or allow someone to upset you is if YOU'RE being defensive and/or have been proven wrong.

the truth is, more often than not he's right and you can't stand that. and thus, he critiques you because you NEED to be critiqued. you're doing stupid shit. you're doing something WRONG and whatever it is you're doing impacts him in some way.

when your shortcomings impact me, i have every right to suggest a better way. if i've been there, done that, how bout you stfu, listen and learn instead of doing it YOUR way and leaving him to suffer through YOUR mess?

hid post to reword.


But in short, I appreciate the "critique" from the person that insists she doesn't critique.

But the reasoning has got to be something better than " I only critique when I'm right." That's a bit arrogant don't you think?

I also established in my first post that I am defensive, and super sensitive to critcism not because I think the person is right...it's because I 'care' about the source of the criticism.

I'm also open to the fact that it might be a cardinal sign thing as opposed to just a taurus thing..Nefer was quoting an incident with her libra...and maybe if one deleved deep enough one could say the same for capricorns or cancers perhaps..i dunno..don't really care to look into it.

I'm the Tau-saturated one who WASN'T criticizing.. I'm the Tau-saturated Fish who instantly bristles at any attempt to critique me.. He's the Libra Merc who drives me bananas at times.. like we're each speaking a totally different language and struggling to be understood.

Hmm.. maybe Cardinal, I suppose. Personally, I always felt it was a bit of his Cap Rising and A LOT of his Virgo Moon lol

Incidentally, I don't think Taurus has the corner on critiquing.. well, any more than Earth signs in general seem to have/do... I myself am heaaavy on the Tau planets.. I feel and act like a Bullette (Moon/Mars).. but I'm not a critiquer.. I don't think? Maybe I am and don't know it? o.o I know I'm a stubborn-ass bitch. Maybe I'm just a plain, garden-variety bitch too? lol

Though I also suppose if I'm bothered enough to give you advice, helpful suggestions, what-have-you (all forms of critiquing, I suppose.. warning, advising, coaxing, cajoling.. all ways to say: you're doing it wrong, and here's a better way).. I suppose when I do it, I DO think I'm right. Absolutely right, very little margin for error on my part, cuz I've already thought it through and through while I was deciding if I wanted to bring it up.. and since I'm right, you aren't going to change my mind.. and if you're offended by my well-meant intentions.. fie on you! Or something.

Yeah, pretty sure I'm a bitch lol

I said "suppose" four times -_-

LOL Glad I'm not the only one that makes a nutter. And...not a bitch MerCow. 🙂—

Posted by Nefer
I suppose when I do it, I DO think I'm right. Absolutely right, very little margin for error on my part, cuz I've already thought it through and through while I was deciding if I wanted to bring it up.. and since I'm right, you aren't going to change my mind.. and if you're offended by my well-meant intentions.. fie on you! Or something.

^that's it

if i KNOW i'm right, then and only then do i feel justified in stating the criticism. when i am justified...which is most of the time, if it's clear that i am right, then any bucking on your part is YOUR problem, not mine, so fuck your feelings.

thus, on here or elsewhere (since the bitch OP brought it up), if and when i critique, i'm usually right. just because you, yo daddy and yr cousin jim don't like the way i says it, doesn't change the FACT that i read you, wrote you and bathed myself in your tears.

what IF i'm wrong? then i'm wrong. if the critique was a request to do something and i'm wrong, don't do it. if you disagree with whatever resolution i proposed, express your disagreement. change or don't change...it's up to you.

sounds easy enough and yet, if you choose to be emotionally devastated as a result of someone's evaluation of you, the issue is YOU, not me. you're judged everyday, so unless you emotionally introspect every judgment, gtfoh! your lack of emotional stability shouldn't keep those closest to you from expressing themselves or letting you know how you are negatively impacting them.

with that said, the ONLY time a taurus would be at fault in a critique is NOT due to the actual critique. ie, if i want you to wear your hair a certain way and critique your current hair style , there's no harm in that. if however i begin hiding hair styling tools and products and replacing them with ones i like, if i ACCIDENTALLY cut your hair because i prefer it short, if i engage in controlling behavior so that you enact the critique...the problem isn't the critique now is it?

all taureans will struggle with a need to control their environment, but as we mature solely and within a relationship, this will subside. we WILL try to control our attempts to control. when we're in this mature mode, stating the critique is a choice that has been weighed and measured...

cont...

i have already asked myself...

what is his/her perspective?
is their perspective valid?
why are they doing xyz?
is the change i'm requesting a necessity?
is this a one time annoyance?
can i let this go?
am i right?



if after this evaluation i decide to express myself, it's because i KNOW that i'm right and justified in doing so. if in turn you rear back because YOU have issues or can't stand to be criticized, you will meet a wall. why?

a. did you process what i said or did you react without thought?
b. if you're emotional, why? oh, you're trying to manipulate me and change the topic. fuck you!
vii. have you proven that i'm wrong? no? ok, then you're just being an asshole and you're invalidated on the spot.



so overall, where earth signs or those with heavy earth placements critique in a more matter of fact manner, the critique alone is the problem. it's usually how that critique is received.

the reality is, criticism is a dish best served cold, but sadly, most people are too thin-skinned and deluded to eat it up. they'd rather that you sugar coat their shit and serve it to them by candlelight. that's why you have so many fake mofos on this site and in RL who will kiss your face and then bite your back.

thus if you don't want to be critiqued to your face, don't be surprised when people talk about you behind your back.

*looking up at THAT^^^^*

"all taureans will struggle with a need to control their environment, but as we mature solely and within a relationship, this will subside. we WILL try to control our attempts to control. when we're in this mature mode, stating the critique is a choice that has been weighed and measured..."

Wow. I'm more Tau than I thought o.o

Still a Fish though, and still bristle at criticism. Growth and maturity (aka my ass is OLD now!) means I'll LISTEN to you (usually) and I will TRY to set aside my knee-jerk reaction of offense (and defense!).. then the Tau weighing and measuring starts...

what is his/her perspective?
is their perspective valid?
why are they asking for xyz?
is the change they're requesting a necessity?
is this something they just need to accept?
are they right?
am i wrong?
can i change this?

Hey Tubby... you two (and your posts) are very useful/helpful to my own relationship LOL

Holy shit!

Seriously Caligula, What the fuck is wrong with you?

Where on earth do you gather that in any way this thread is insulting to you...in the past couple of posts you've done nothing but insult me and I've done nothing of the sort. Can ya point it out for me? Please?


Get over yourself...no one is attacking you. I made a post INSPIRED by your post, not because I hate you or wanted to tell you off, It's because YOUR post made me think about something that I felt was familiar to OTHER Taurus people I know.

I am making an objective post about taurus like YOU were making an objective posts about Pisces. But of course the only reason isn't because of what I already stated.

So yes, at the very least admit that you're getting defensive because what other reason would one feel a need to throw insults at someone?

Posted by TheBeautifulStruggle

But of course the only reason isn't because of what I already stated.

Just wanted people to know THIS is sarcasm.

Posted by caligula
cont...

i have already asked myself...

what is his/her perspective?
is their perspective valid?
why are they doing xyz?
is the change i'm requesting a necessity?
is this a one time annoyance?
can i let this go?
am i right?



if after this evaluation i decide to express myself, it's because i KNOW that i'm right and justified in doing so. if in turn you rear back because YOU have issues or can't stand to be criticized, you will meet a wall. why?

a. did you process what i said or did you react without thought?
b. if you're emotional, why? oh, you're trying to manipulate me and change the topic. fuck you!
vii. have you proven that i'm wrong? no? ok, then you're just being an asshole and you're invalidated on the spot.

Everything you say I don't have a problem with (did you get that? I think that Everything YOU say about THIS topic is FINE), but I am not convinced that you think of this point-by point criteria for every instance...if anything you may rush a few steps. Can you agree on that yes or no?

Also are we presuming, (from where you're quoted) is that you say that EVERY criticism you say has validity. I listed nefer's post (not to put her on blast...dear god, really Nefer??) but to show an example of criticism that In my opinion doesn't make sense to mention, and to my impression it would be something i would just leave alone. I don't think that the purpose of mentioning this is because you're altruistic, its because you're annoyed for some reason and you want it to stop..it has nothing to do with wanting to make the other a better person(like maybe a virgo would think) it's because (and this is a theory, I could very well be wrong) that for some reason, the action is rocking your security somehow. It's only about you.

And to clarify...what bothers me isn't just the criticism..it's the source ( yes, if it's someone I love, respect..yes, it's going to hurt more than from someone I don't..as a matter of fact, I could probably process it better if I (personally) DIDN'T have an emotional connection with that person); it's the type...I'm talking about things that could be considered quirks..or things that make you, you...(like "Why do you furrow your eyebrows like that? WHy do you always grab things with your left hand..why do you use that much toothpaste, why do you talk like that...why do you listen to THAT type of music? .

And to clarify...what bothers me isn't just the criticism..it's the source ( yes, if it's someone I love, respect..yes, it's going to hurt more than from someone I don't..as a matter of fact, I could probably process it better if I (personally) DIDN'T have an emotional connection with that person); it's the type...I'm talking about things that could be considered quirks..or things that make you, you...(like "Why do you furrow your eyebrows like that? WHy do you always grab things with your left hand..why do you use that much toothpaste, why do you talk like that...why do you listen to THAT type of music? ..why do you count things in twos?

don't no all Taurus,of course, but the criticism I seen was in every Taurus I known. I have a few Taurus family members and Taurus friendship male and female, also coworkers. I been in dates with Taurus too. so I understand how it is to be around a critical person. a couple of Taurus females I known I stop going out to the clubs with them, I got tired of them expressing there feeling about my outfit or my hair,or the shoes I wear.
conversation goes like this, ''club night getting dress at my house''
r u going to wear that
Me saying Yea
Taurus, Y that shit don't look right
me, OK but I am feeling this right now,
Taurus, really that shit look crazy
me, still getting dress saying OK with smile I feel this right now.
Taurus, lol saying omg u wearing those shoe too, they dnt match
me, y the shoes is black and its black in this dress, what u mean
Taurus, lol looking me up and down asking me in the same sentence how her outfit look
me, reply u look cute,
almost every other time I delt with this with Taurus.

one of my Taurus home girls I grew up with ,we was like sisters, some of the same issues I had with her ,that she was always critical of who I dated but she was the one with failed relationships, she came in and out of situations with men because she didn't think things thru. she thought that she was right about situation that was so wronge and being stubborn to the end and I would watch her situation fail. don't like to be critize back, or to listen to opinion and will get defensive .onetime we was holding a conversation about cheating men and it all went wrong cause she didn't like her the truth coming out
we was talking about men cheating and she was telling me stories about her job people getting count up.then she said to me........

conversation

I never knew Taurus peeps had this trait. I guess am always too busy judging and critiquing them before they can get a word in edgewise.

Posted by ecent
don't no all Taurus,of course, but the criticism I seen was in every Taurus I known. I have a few Taurus family members and Taurus friendship male and female, also coworkers. I been in dates with Taurus too. so I understand how it is to be around a critical person. a couple of Taurus females I known I stop going out to the clubs with them, I got tired of them expressing there feeling about my outfit or my hair,or the shoes I wear.
conversation goes like this, ''club night getting dress at my house''
r u going to wear that
Me saying Yea
Taurus, Y that shit don't look right
me, OK but I am feeling this right now,
Taurus, really that shit look crazy
me, still getting dress saying OK with smile I feel this right now.
Taurus, lol saying omg u wearing those shoe too, they dnt match
me, y the shoes is black and its black in this dress, what u mean
Taurus, lol looking me up and down asking me in the same sentence how her outfit look
me, reply u look cute,
almost every other time I delt with this with Taurus.

one of my Taurus home girls I grew up with ,we was like sisters, some of the same issues I had with her ,that she was always critical of who I dated but she was the one with failed relationships, she came in and out of situations with men because she didn't think things thru. she thought that she was right about situation that was so wronge and being stubborn to the end and I would watch her situation fail. don't like to be critize back, or to listen to opinion and will get defensive .onetime we was holding a conversation about cheating men and it all went wrong cause she didn't like her the truth coming out
we was talking about men cheating and she was telling me stories about her job people getting count up.then she said to me........


conversation

she ask me about my relationship, and I ask her how she felt with her ex cheated on her , she went off saying I left him he didn't leave me, all this sh.t that didn't have to do with anything

Posted by ecent

Posted by ecent
don't no all Taurus,of course, but the criticism I seen was in every Taurus I known. I have a few Taurus family members and Taurus friendship male and female, also coworkers. I been in dates with Taurus too. so I understand how it is to be around a critical person. a couple of Taurus females I known I stop going out to the clubs with them, I got tired of them expressing there feeling about my outfit or my hair,or the shoes I wear.
conversation goes like this, ''club night getting dress at my house''
r u going to wear that
Me saying Yea
Taurus, Y that shit don't look right
me, OK but I am feeling this right now,
Taurus, really that shit look crazy
me, still getting dress saying OK with smile I feel this right now.
Taurus, lol saying omg u wearing those shoe too, they dnt match
me, y the shoes is black and its black in this dress, what u mean
Taurus, lol looking me up and down asking me in the same sentence how her outfit look
me, reply u look cute,
almost every other time I delt with this with Taurus.

one of my Taurus home girls I grew up with ,we was like sisters, some of the same issues I had with her ,that she was always critical of who I dated but she was the one with failed relationships, she came in and out of situations with men because she didn't think things thru. she thought that she was right about situation that was so wronge and being stubborn to the end and I would watch her situation fail. don't like to be critize back, or to listen to opinion and will get defensive .onetime we was holding a conversation about cheating men and it all went wrong cause she didn't like her the truth coming out
we was talking about men cheating and she was telling me stories about her job people getting count up.then she said to me........


conversation

she ask me about my relationship, and I ask her how she felt with her ex cheated on her , she went off saying I left him he didn't leave me, all this sh.t that didn't have to do with anything

click to expand

make my long story short I seen these behaviors with Taurus around me. I haven't met all so I dnt no all ,my situation. I had more to say but my t

Posted by TheBeautifulStruggle



When he does this, my mind goes back to all the other things that bother me about HIM and why at that time, I never mentioned it, why? Because it's trivial it's a quirk..its something I just tolerate because in the long run, it isn't a big deal.

But does he feel/think like that? Nope, not at all.

So it hurts..and from this end, I feel like i'm caught in a cycle of having my ego constantly chipped at, and it doesn't seem like it's for the better.

I understand you, beautiful. I've experienced the same thing with a Taurus. He didn't openly critisize me often, but he had his strong opinion of how things should be and this opinion was the RIGHT one, anything else is wrong. I don't know how to make them see otherwise either. It's a thing they have to realize themselves.

I remember once, while we were fighting, he said: "When was the last time I critisized you? You are messing things up with this behavior right now." etc. etc. So here he was aware that he had critisized me in the past and he was trying not to do so on purpose, in order for us to be good and not fight. But then again apparently I did something "WRONG" again so here we are still fighting even though he "did not critisize me". They have that strong idea that the way they do things is perfection and you shouldn't try to shake this perception, otherwise they will punish you and not talk to you -.-

I guess I can't help you in telling why they do that, but I know they do. (I kinda found the other answers offensive and they did not do justice to your questions at all).