He Says, I need to get myself together first

So...My best friend has been really good friends with this Virgo (she's an Aqua, he's a Virgo). They've officially known each other for 8 years, but as of last year, they become very close.
He wanted to be around her all day, every day. He would bring her around all of his family (to the point that his own family starting calling her HIS girlfriend, even though they hadn't made it official between themselves).
He held her when they went to sleep. They went to the park, they walked, they talked & kissed as they held hands. He started to chose seeing her, over spending time with his own male friends. He made sure he talked to her (by text message or by phone call) atleast every 2 hours. He never tried to have SEX with her or come on to her too strong (He told her that when SHE was ready, he would respect that). When his family would call her his girlfriend, he'd just smile (He wouldn't deny it). BUT, 9 months down the road, she was ready to be more than just his FRIEND. She had a long conversation with him & tried to get him to open up his feelings & to see how he felt about them FINALLY making it official.

He told her that he wasn't ready for a relationship & that he had to get "himself together first." And because I'M the best friend, I had to hear all about it. THIS IS WHAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE: He was READY to spend all day with her, He was READY to bring her around his family almost more than he was around them, He was READY to get jealous if another guy even tried to step into her world, He was READY to make love to her, He was READY to spend all of her time. He never had a car, a job, & didn't live in the best neighborhood but she started catching feelings for him when he had NOTHING even when she knew he wasn't her usual upscale type. His family thinks he said NO because he's intimidated by her (she's the one with the house, the car, the one in school). The only thing missing was the TITLE (a WORD in the dictionary). How can he say he's not ready for commitment YET he's technically ALREADY commited to her (emotionally & physically, minus the actual title)...WHY DO MEN DO THIS? He'll never find another woman who was willing to love him when he had nothing? And while he's pretending to be getting "ready" he's taking the chance that another guy, who DID HAVE IT ALL (more than him) will sweep her off of her feet)...That's just not fair...She would have NEVER given all of her time, emotions & energy into a guy if she had've known

Virgos, what is YOUR feedback on why he did this? Why he suddenly backed out? Why he KNEW deep down that he was allowing himself to fall for her, yet still knowing that when it came down to it, he'd end up backing out? Why Men always say they're NOT READY for the title, but yet they were READY for everything else that makes the title the most rewarding? Why he didn't realize how special of a girl she was (because she loved him when he had NOTHING--no car, no job, not in school)? Why he didn't listen to his OWN family tell him that he was an idiot if he didn't not only seal the deal with her BUT ALSO put a wedding ring on her finger (since she was such a good woman to him)? Why he is willing to take the risk of hurting & losing her because of selfishness? Why he didn't stop HIMSELF from falling for her or being around her if he knew that he'd break her heart when it came down to discussing being together? Why he didn't try to stop her or back off, when he could sense her feelings for him were growing just as fast as his feelings for her were? Why did he do everything for her, be there for her, make a vowl not to take advantage of her sexually like those other guys & give his heart to her as if they were boyfriend & girlfriend, just to get down to the part that matters & back out? I NEED SOME ANSWERS! My friend is driving me nuts about this & I can understand why!

Another Virgo told me he backed out because he had been hurt before & didn't want to risk getting hurt again...

BUT...I said...That's bull. If he's been hurt before (like the average person) he wouldn't have put so much energy in to her, he wouldn't have wanted to ACT like a couple & he wouldn't have allowed himself to fall for her slowly over that 9 months. He wouldn't have been okay with things when others called them a couple. Forget about her, He wouldn't have put HIMSELF through this if he knew he wasn't ready. We're not talking about a quick & fast puppy love thing. These 2 had been allowing themselves to grow feelings for eachother for over a year without sealing the deal. She tried to do the right thing by being his "friend before his lover" like most people are too impatient to do. She tried to do the right thing by only giving her all ONLY when she could sense that he was giving her the same ALL. Most people told him that he was LUCKY to have her & still, the excuses from his mouth keep rolling. When he said NO, she cried & wouldn't answer his phone calls. He called her 100 times until she answered & kept saying "Baby, don't cry. I'm so sorry. I didn't mean for you to fall for me" & that's when her world stopped. She said "WHAT DO YOU MEAN, YOU DIDN'T MEAN FOR ME TO FALL FOR YOU?" She felt insulted because just days earlier his cousin had a long talk with him (who he usually opens up to) & according to his cousin, that he'd stated that he DID love her & that he did care about her & wouldn't mind being with her just to "test things out"...The only reason my best friend WENT FOR IT days later was because of what his cousin told her about how he felt days earlier...Now she feels like an idiot.....

She feels like an idiot...and not to mention, she's an AQUA & we all know that there's going to be trouble when someone ACTUALLY gets an Aqua to put their walls down just to end up being rejected shortly after

I am not a virgo and Im no male but my impression after reading this...with what I know of virgo men is this: He has deep rooted insecurity. A virgo guy would rather be tickled to death than to admit weakness. He obviously was respectful of her...and I would say deep down he does not feel 'up to par' with her or good enough. Alot of times a guy will 'enjoy' a woman yet, keep them at arms length, because they are afraid they will ultimately end up disappointing her. Alot of Virgos have that I know have to have a sense of superiority in order to take the reigns in a relationship. I bet he has her on a quiet pedestal. That is my take.

"BTW her failure was that she believed in the sweet story. Like cappysweetie wrote in another thread: "...cancer dude...can be sweet as hell, but .... no, I need more then pure sweetness"

But the thing is, how is love ever supposed to be established without one person EVENTUALLY having to believe the "sweet story" and hoping it's actually real? The thing is, she was very hesistant to give him her all in the beginning. He kept INSISTING that she get comfortable, always telling her that she had nothing to worry about. He's a Virgo & we all know that Virgos have a hard time showing their feelings BUT this guy acted as if his world surrounded around her & usually had no hesistation when acting that way. It wasn't just a 1 or 2 day fling. These 2 were like a couple, were together EVERY SINGLE DAY (to the point where I'd call HIS house looking for her instead of her own house) & based off of the outsiders (people like me, his family & his own friends)opinions, we all thought by their actions that he was "different" and that maybe even though those 2 were completely different, there was an attraction between the 2 of them that we all wish we had with our friends & boyfriends. And then when he said "I can't do it" it seems like the world just stopped. His closest friends & family members ADMITTED that he really had alot of love & feelings for her & that they couldn't understand why he was acting that way. It would be one thing if everybody thought he made the right decision but the weird thing is EVERYBODY was mad at him for not saying "YES" at the top of his lungs!

I think he needs a good talking to, he has clearly pulled the wool over his own eyes. I'm in agreeance with marchgirl in that I think he is very insecure.

If he was my friend i'd meet up with him (don't call him, coz he can hang up on you when you start waving the truth in his face and he doesn't wanna accept it) and talk some sense into him, he's being a complete moron and is running away from his problems instead of just relaxing and letting something wonderful "just be".

By the way I have lots of virgo male friends, and I regularly give them my opinion in a straight-forward fashion - don't sugar coat it with pretty words and sensitivities coz you're afraid he'll run away, give him cold hard logic - point out how his words have contradicted his actions then let him think about it. He'll see the logic, but i'm not guaranteeing that he'll get back with your friend....Maybe he's afraid of how strongly he feels for her.

"give them my opinion in a straight-forward fashion - don't sugar coat it with pretty words and sensitivities coz you're afraid he'll run away, give him cold hard logic - point out how his words have contradicted his actions then let him think about it. He'll see the logic, but i'm not guaranteeing that he'll get back with your friend....Maybe he's afraid of how strongly he feels for her."

And the thing is...She HAS given it to him straight-forward. She confronted him with full blown force & told him that she was hurt. Sure, he continued to call her alot & continued seeking her time, BUT she sort of backed off from him for her own sake. And all he kept saying to her was, "I'm sorry I didn't mean to hurt you," and she felt like those words were slaps in the face because just 2 days earlier he'd told his best friend (cousin) that he would be with her in a heartbeat if he could. It's one thing to be insecure when things don't look promising on the other end of the spectrum, but it's ANOTHER THING when things look promising & you still back out of something you may never experience again or atleast for a long time. I think once she started having sex with him on the regular, her value to him starting decreasing with each time. She's an Aqua so her having sex with someone she ALREADY loved didn't affect her feelings for him. But with Virgos, I don't know if the same kind of mentality occurs when it comes down to friends-kinda-lovers with benefits. And now 3 months after this has all blown over, he still calls her but not every day anymore. Sometimes he'll just disappear for a week (and keep in mind she was never used to going without him longer than 2 hours) & then randomly call her & want her to pick him up. I told her that he was probably just USING her & didn't want to let her go because one half of him really isn't ready & the other half of him isn't crazy or insane enough to let her go fully either & THAT'S what is not fair. You're either IN or you're OUT

If he would've told her NO & then took that time as the chance to back off in order to make sure there was no FURTHER confusion, that would be a different story. BUT, even afterwards, he still gave her mixed signals. This guy would wake up text messaging her, & would do so every other 2 hours & at night (if they already weren't together) the communication was still fierce between them. BUT NOW, the calls only come at "booty call" hours. Now, he'll call her at like 12am or real late at night & will randomly want her to pick him up to spend time together. And I just find it weird that he's turned into the "like every other guy" situation but then it gets even more confusing because even though he calls her at 2am & all of the sudden decides he wants to see her, he'll still be the same loving & affectionate man he was before when things were good. The problem is, she really loves him & because her feelings didn't vanish away just because he said NO, it's hard for her to let go. She was told that he was just "insecure" & to be patient so she's trying to be the team leader & not give up. But then again, the other half of her wants to say "To HELL with you! You either want me NOW or you can't have me aT ALL!"

Hmm, I often find that when it comes to a situation which has involved 2 people intimately, they often don't hear the truth from the other person as well as what they do from someone externally. I don't know why this is, it's just something i've noticed / observed alot.

If he's gonna be a w@nker, she should tell him to f**k off out of her life and never speak to her again because no guy that behaves in such a manner deserves to be part of a girls life (cut him off HARD). The way he was acting with her before rings very true to me of a virgo that has fallen deeply, and does sound very genuine so such a major turn-around seems very odd. Maybe he is afraid of getting screwed over by a girl? (and sees the way he felt about her as making him vulnerable). You mentioned that he was hanging out with her more than his own mates, perhaps his mates have teased him about being "whipped" if you know what I mean.

Him saying he didn't mean for her to fall for him is the biggest load of BS I have heard in ages, what a laugh (at his expense ofcourse, not your friend's). Well hey, if he's going to be immature then all that means is there's a better guy out there for your friend. It's always sad to hear when someone is hurting though.

If I was her I wouldn't answer his calls either - especially not the 2am ones!! He needs to start respecting her again and IMO if he aint gonna shape up, he can ship out. He'll start thinking long and hard if she cuts him out of her life in a really cold and sharp fashion. How old are they both? Maybe he wants to play the field a bit first before he settles down... :s

"Him saying he didn't mean for her to fall for him is the biggest load of BS I have heard in ages, what a laugh (at his expense ofcourse, not your friend's). Well hey, if he's going to be immature then all that means is there's a better guy out there for your friend. It's always sad to hear when someone is hurting though.
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That's what I told her. There is no way in hell! That doesn't even make sense! Why would someone continue to ASK for the time of the person that is visibly falling in love with them (day by day) unless he had the same feelings externally as well? I know if I started getting close to a guy & knew it wasn't going to go anywhere, the minute I could see him falling for me (if I knew I would never fall for him) I would back off for HIS sake because that's unfair & that's not right. I think he WANTED her to fall for him because he knew his a*s was falling for her too. I mean, who wants to fall in love with someone who doesn't feel the exact same way about them? She's just NOW starting to realize that there is better out there for her. Hell, she knew that when she first met him (because like I said, he had NOTHING & he definetely wasn't the kind of guy she was normally even attracted to---which is a double slap in the face)...

"If I was her I wouldn't answer his calls either - especially not the 2am ones!! He needs to start respecting her again and IMO if he aint gonna shape up, he can ship out. He'll start thinking long and hard if she cuts him out of her life in a really cold and sharp fashion. How old are they both? Maybe he wants to play the field a bit first before he settles down... :s"
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I think the problem is, when he said "No, I'm not ready" she knew she'd be hurt for a little while but then assumed that she'd have that "F-it" attitude most Aquas have when they are left with no choice BUT to feel that way. But, when the night time came, she realized that No, love is not something that goes away or turns on & off just like a light switch does & because of the fact that he was still PRESENT in her life & still spending time with her, she tried to be a good woman & hope that He's realized what he MIGHT lose before he actually DOES lose it (You never know what you have until it's gone). I think HER mistake was that after he said NO, she still allowed herself to come to his rescue whenever he wanted to be around her, instead of giving him a taste of his own medicine & giving him the same feeling he gave her (but doing it as a way of walking out & not just doing it because she was insecure & planned on still staying). She wrote him a letter telling him that she was letting go completely (no more spending time together, no more sex, no more games) & put it in his mailbox so that when he gets home & it's just him, by himself he can read it & by himself show his OWN self how he really felt about her. Do you think she should have sent him the letter? I think it was a good idea (as long as she doesn't give in the next time he calls)

Well, I'm a Virgo with Venus in Cancer, and I also have my own fair share of ambitions in life... so I'd probably never see eye to eye with this dude. I'd probably have been waiting on her knowing my past habits if I had gone through all of this.

I've seen it happen several times where a guy is VERY close friends with a woman, exhibiting much of the same behavior that you have noted. He will never make a move for the woman though, because the thoughts of losing her as a friend outweigh the benefit of gaining her as a lover (which he is convinced will always fail eventually due to past relationships).

Back to the Virgo male in question. If he is a good-natured individual, I can't honestly see why he would lead her on in the way he has, unless he has the foresight of a lemming (and one thing we Virgos are not labeled as is UNDER-analyzing). That being said, I'm not so sure of his character here.

He Says, "I need to get myself together first"

Oh God in heaven, is this not every virgo man's motto?

Is that how they run game?

Yeah I don't think the letter was a bad idea, it's always good to put your thoughts across in writing. So long as she sticks to it, otherwise he'll just think she's silly and she won't be doing herself any favours either.

When people ring me late that I don't want to talk to, especially if I know I have a weakness for them the best thing to do is put the phone on silent and turn the vibration off as well, so you don't even know it's ringing. Atleast from the sounds of things she has you as a nice supportive friend there for her, can help take her mind off things and vent when she needs to. Probably a good idea for her to really distance him for a while too, otherwise it'll make it alot harder on her.

"I've seen it happen several times where a guy is VERY close friends with a woman, exhibiting much of the same behavior that you have noted. He will never make a move for the woman though, because the thoughts of losing her as a friend outweigh the benefit of gaining her as a lover (which he is convinced will always fail eventually due to past relationships). "

And you know what, that's all fine & dandy BUT gosh why do we women have to learn this AFTER we fall? I've seen them together many times & from visual opinion, they are a good match. When there's 5 attractive women around (including her), he won't look at nare one of them but instead will keep his eye on her. You can just tell in his eyes that he really does care for her but there's just SOMETHING that is holding him back. And it's driving us BOTH nuts because the Virgo in him won't reveal to us why he's being this way & it sucks because us both being Aquas just means we'll just sit & analyze this "thing" until we freakin figure it out!

He Says, "I need to get myself together first"

Oh God in heaven, is this not every virgo man's motto?

Is that how they run game?
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EXACTLY! He wasn't saying this to himself when he thought about her all night, thinking to himself, "Man, I really like this girl" just to end up calling her to ask her if he can see her. He wasn't trying to get himself together the whole time they were "close" but yet now that the pressure is in the kitchen, now all of the sudden he wants to have Priorities. I know it's just a cover up. But unfortunately, unless HE tells her the real reason why he won't be with her, our guesses will never be as good as HIS answer

And she did decide to write him the letter. It came out to be 5 pages long & in it she basically told him what she loved about him & what she didn't appreciate in his actions towards the end. She didn't blaim this whole "thing" on him, but instead took responsibility for how SHE contributed to why things between them are the way they are. In the letter she told him that she thought it was best if they just cut eachother off. She has already given him the chance to change his mind & eventually see her for what she's worth but eventually her dignity & self-respect & love for HERSELF will & should always overrule waiting on something that is not waiting on or pursuing her. The entire point of the letter was for him to realize: Men need to stop looking for "HER" if they're just going to look right past "HER" when she's standing right in front of his face. Be careful what you wish for!

"And you know what, that's all fine & dandy BUT gosh why do we women have to learn this AFTER we fall? I've seen them together many times & from visual opinion, they are a good match. When there's 5 attractive women around (including her), he won't look at nare one of them but instead will keep his eye on her. You can just tell in his eyes that he really does care for her but there's just SOMETHING that is holding him back."


Didn't say I agreed with it. I'm a cautious Virgo myself, but I've come to learn that if I never gamble on these things, the "what ifs" will drive me mad. I think both him, and my friends who've done this, are being damn stupid to be honest with you.

All guys have to come to terms with the fear of commitment at some point in their lives, and most are too short-sighted to see it coming like a Mack truck in these situations. It's a fear that's instilled on an evolutionary level.

In short, best thing for your friend to do at this point, is don't contact him at all, and do not give him any preferential treatment. Make him do all the running. He will either wise up, or she'll move on and be a better person for the experience (and trust me, she doesn't want him anyway if he doesn't wise up).


"And it's driving us BOTH nuts because the Virgo in him won't reveal to us why he's being this way & it sucks because us both being Aquas just means we'll just sit & analyze this "thing" until we freakin figure it out!"

I definitely feel your pain there. I feel like I've nearly pondered myself out of my mind on multiple occasions concerning this kind of stuff (which is actually what brought me to this board, concerning an aqua woman no less). It seems to me that aquas and virgos are a lot alike (but just enough to confuse the hell out of one another).

Didn't say I agreed with it. I'm a cautious Virgo myself, but I've come to learn that if I never gamble on these things, the "what ifs" will drive me mad. I think both him, and my friends who've done this, are being damn stupid to be honest with you.

All guys have to come to terms with the fear of commitment at some point in their lives, and most are too short-sighted to see it coming like a Mack truck in these situations. It's a fear that's instilled on an evolutionary level.

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Exactly! You'd think that when it came down to Life-or-death, Lose-her-or-suck it up and-keep her guys would learn how to turn off certain insecurities when they Absolutely HAVE TO. But what bothers me is that guys let their insecurities control them even when they are faced with losing something they may never get or experience again or for a longgg time. And you know what, like I said, rather or not the TITLE is actually there, most guys have already COMMITTED to her by doing all of the things that committed people do (sex, spending all of their time together, being protective, calling eachother 'baby' and saying the 'I-love-Yous")...The only thing missing is the TITLE which is just a word in the dictionary. It just doesn't make much sense. And half of these men know BEFORE hand that they have commitment phobia & have commitment issues but yet they still continue to seek the attention & time & love from women, knowing that in the end when it comes down to the moment of truth, they won't allow themselves to take that extra step. Forget about US, why do they do this to themselves—

"But the emotional side made him run..He is immature and he will be back.."

What bothers me is that most men expect for us to wait FOREVER. You're right, he might be back. But by rejecting her he was willing to take that risk of knowing that when he finally came to terms with his OWN feelings, she might not still be at the door waiting on him. After he rejected her, she was still there for him & she still showed her face to him, hoping that in time he'd realize what he had standing right in front of him. But now, she's at the point where she's tired of waiting. The WHAT-IFS go both ways. What if she walks away today & finds out that if she hadda just waited one more day she could've had the man of her dreams? OR WHAT IF she sits & waits (pushing away other potential guys that are alot better for her than him) & finds out that he NEVER was or had the intentions on "getting it together" to be with her? She would've wasted her time & would never forgive herself. Both WHAT-IFS are pretty bad & in this case, deciding on which WHAT-IF is worse, is really hard.

And your friend may have to decide this as well bc he will be back 2 months from now 2 years from now but he will..
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YES- They always come back. It is us, we have to make up our mind and make a FINAL DECISION.

And your friend may have to decide this as well bc he will be back 2 months from now 2 years from now but he will..
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YES- They always come back. It is us, we have to make up our mind and make a FINAL DECISION.
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The thing is, when she would have sudden outburst in the past & tell him that she couldn't do it anymore, she'd ignore him for a couple weeks (he wouldn't call her, text her----She wouldn't hear from him at all) & then when he'd call her a month later, he'd act as if nothing ever happend & I think he would test her by asking her if he could come to see her just to see what she'd say. Of course she would give in & end up seeing him but deep down she knew he was just testing her to see if she was content in her decision. BUT this time, she actually wrote him a 5 page letter, addressing EVERYTHING she couldn't handle anymore. She finally got SICK & TIRED of BEING SICK & TIRED & this time, she hopes he'll take her seriously! She knows that just because she wrote him that letter doesn't mean they'll NEVER speak again. But when he calls, she'll press ignore (because she's no longer going to give-in to any more of his tests) & because she's finally content in her decision to do what she's gotta do & let him go, it'll be interesting to see how this situation plays out. I asked her last night...If he were to not call for 2 months & then on the 3rd month, call you & ask you to be his girl (claiming he realized he was scared but wanted you the whole time), what would you do? She said, "It doesn't matter, his time is up. His time was really up months ago but because of my OWN hard time getting him out of my system, I still gave in." And she also told me that she'd never be able to sit with the fact that she only got the man she wanted because she almost had to lose him before she "got him" And I told her GOOD FOR HER!

Yeah, I've heard that Virgos never really leave. They always come back. But here's my question...The whole time when they are not calling, aren't text messaging, or aren't putting any effort into contacting us, what are they thinking about the whole time? Do they block us out for 3 months one minute & then the next day randomly remember that we exist & decide to call (as if they forgot about what happend)? What makes them call again months later & act as if nothing ever happend? Is it them once again being in denial & out of touch with their feelings, thus just trying to make themselves believe that nothing ever happend? Now THIS is the part about Virgos that I just don't understand

And the fact that they DO come back even adds to the confusion. It's one thing if they come back as a changed man & one who's ready to take that extra step (after all, they've had enough space & time to make the decision). But it's another thing to come back months later & not a thing has changed. The reason the space was there in the first place was because things just didn't work out, but yet when they come back, they almost seem to forget why the space & time apart happened in the first place

And the fact that they DO come back even adds to the confusion. It's one thing if they come back as a changed man & one who's ready to take that extra step
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We have some serious network issue going on at work and so slow to respond.

But, I would say if he comes back and is changed give him one more and the last chance.
I do not give more than two chances to any one.

As for they coming back after a while, I guess they are pondering on what the mess they made in the past and do realize something went wrong. They can't live with it and hence do come back.

did he need to disturb my peace after all this time.
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In you case, SG, I am not sure what should you do. Either give him a second chance or not. You have to make your decision and stick to it. In my case I had given him two chances only and one ultimatum! He had to make up his mind or I was about to meet someone else.

He knew I meant what I said and I did not lie.

"As for they coming back after a while, I guess they are pondering on what the mess they made in the past and do realize something went wrong. They can't live with it and hence do come back."

True, I guess it's partly HER fault that he kept coming back in the past acting as if nothing had ever happend because of her giving-in-all-the-time attitude. She allowed him to have his cake & eat it too. He knew that when she'd explode & tell him she was done, he'd be able to call her a month later & they'd start right back all over like how they'd started. But this time, I think she's serious. The test is to see this Virgo try to contact her in a month (with the pride that she's just in another one of those 'phases' again) & see how he reacts, changes or doesn't change when he sees that she was dead serious. It's 2008 man! People have to work for what they want & it's THEIR responsibility to actually keep it. By her always giving in, she's not making him see what he's truly lost. The true test will be when he actually BELIEVES that she is done & then based on his actions AFTER that, she'll know if this Virgo was really who she thought he was & if he was a waste of energy & time. I think if he did come back a changed man & tried to win her back over, she'd WANT to give in but the feeling of being tested would be all too familiar. He'd have to literally SHOW her better than he can TELL her that he's a changed man & that he finally realized that he can't lose her & that he'd do whatever it'd take to keep her (even if it involves finally taking the risk of putting his wall down for her).

"He'd have to literally SHOW her better than he can TELL her that he's a changed man"
.....And he's lucky if he even gets THAT chance. After all, she's done her part. She's given him enough chances. She can either be part of the problem (keep giving in which is not making him realize any faster what he's about to lose) or be a part of the solution (maybe this Virgo will know how to handle things differently when and IF he finds another woman like her, so that he won't lose out on everything he truly & secretely wanted)

And the rememdy for a Commitment phobie is the fear of losing a person has to be greater then the fear of commitment..Some over come it some don't..
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starfish:
Very well said.!

"And the rememdy for a Commitment phobie is the fear of losing a person has to be greater then the fear of commitment..Some over come it some don't"

And that's what's so sad. They put so much effort into GETTING themselves into the situations & once the feelings are there, they put MORE effort into being distant & backing out than they do being true to their own emotions. It takes way more energy to hide your true feelings than it does to keep in touch & in tune with your real emotions.

"When ppl get tired then it ends and some have to get sick and tired.."

Yep, like I said, she just got tired of being sick & tired & couldn't take it anymore. It bothered her too much that she was willing to put all of her walls down just to show him that even she can overcome her OWN commitment phobia. In HER mind, commiting to someone who she found herself actually loving was worth it more than losing him & taking the risk of never finding someone like him again. But in his mind, things might be the opposite. He'd rather be his own enemy & risk having those terrible "WHAT-IFS" just so that he can stay in his own comfort zone. The question is, how many more "good women" is he going to have to lose before he realizes that staying in his own comfort zone is causing him to LOSE more than GAIN? What he's doing now (not willing to put his wall down even for the one he loves) is not working for him now & probably never will, considering women are getting alot more smarter & impatient when it comes to these "undecided" men. Maybe it's going to take for these men to be left alone at night (instead of having that one down-a*s woman in their beds every night) in order for them to get it together. You know what they say, what one woman or man won't do for you, another will. But eventually, there's going to come a time, when even the women or men you thought WOULD don't even do it

And not to mention, She's an Aqua! Come on people, Aquas are the hardest people to get their walls down, probably even more than Virgos. She had so much courage & love for him that she did it (out of all people). I can understand why she's so dam upset. This guy was lucky enough to even get into her heart (HE wanted in) & now that he's got what he asked for & worked for, he can't even realize that he's about to lose everything.

That would be like working somewhere for 29 years with only 2 months to go before you get your retirement of $ 50,000. The whole time you worked at the company for so long (put up with rude co-workers & bosses, & put all that energy & $ 4/gallon gas just so that you could see the day you get that retirement check. And then one day you just up & quit (not because you couldn't take it anymore, but "just because")& ended up not being eligable for your retirement check. It's like come on, you put all that time & work into building up to something & when the work is FINALLY done & where you wanted it to be, you walk straight out on it, wasting it all over nothing.

My aunt worked for Bell South for 29 years. She had one more year to go before she was eligble for that FAT retirement check. 8 months before she was due to retire, they laid her off & the company by law was NOT entitled to give her any of her retirement money (this was a big case down in Tennessee). She was soooooo hurt by this. Hell, she was tired of Bell South after 15 years, but the only reason she kept forcing herself to get up every morning was because she knew she'd came to far to give it all up now. Now she won't even go into a cell phone or house phone store or even look at an associate that deals with telephones! Oh she's pissed!

if that's the the case, i'm sorry i'm not a TIVO or DVR that he can just press 'pause' and/or'play' on demand without communicating what's in his mind and plan. that's selfish and an insult 'to' my intelligence.

Oh, so that's what happened? Oh dear, okay, yeah he should communicated with you. That's why you gave me the advice -- to be upfront from the start. You can't have a relationship without communication ... uh oh ...

"maybe i didn't want to hurt you". didn't want to hurt me so he strung me along for a year— what an insult. who did he think he was and who i was. i don't need pity and i only care for real love. if he had made it known in the beginning what he wanted was to not hurt me i'd walk right there and then instead of going through a year of hell. that was good acting on his part"

Exactly, and that's what makes this situation so dead wrong. He told her that the reason he didn't want to commit to her was because "he wasn't ready & needed to get himself together first" & when she told him that he deeply hurt her he had the nerve to say, "I didn't mean for you to fall for me" as if She was the ONLY one in the situation with feelings. He knew good & dam well he wanted her to fall for him because like most people, he couldn't stand the fact that he was starting to love her his dam self, so of course he did all for her in order for her to obtain the same 'love' feelings towards him. The irony of the situation is, she's the pretty attractive woman with the big-boy apartment, with the nice car, with the good job, in school & the nice clothes (all his male friends thought she was the BEST looking girl he'd EVER brought around), while HE was the not-so-attractive-but-then-again-sweet guy without the car, the job or the education. Hell, he was lucky to even have a girl like her, considering she was on a wayyyy higher level then him intellectually & literally. He should be banging down her door for her because he'll never meet another woman who's so accomplished & that actually pays guys like him so much attention

I think part of the reason he was so attracted to her in the beginning was because she was a challenge. Come on now, the beautiful & accomplished woman ACTUALLY paying the broke & not so attractive guy, some attention. That's a 1 in a lifetime deal. She couldn't figure out why she cared about him so much (considering he def. wasn't her normal type) but then again, that's why she loved him so much----because she realized that PERSONALITY is what steals the heart away faster & longer than looks & career do. And she figured that he saw things the same way. If I was him, I'd get my ish together REAL quick. I'd be thinking like man, "I've never had a woman that had her stuff together this much & who actually had it made (came from a rich family in the suburbs) & a woman who actually gave me the time of day & loved me when I had NOTHING!" That in itself speaks volumes about her character & the fact that in the beginning (before they even got close) she was willing to in a way put her wall down & atleast give him a little chance in winning her heart away. Well he did, & now he's acting like he did HER the favor by saying "No, I need to get myself together first." Oh Puh-leese!

"And if I let him come back and forth all that time then I know that I really love him.."

I think that's what happend. She could literally see herself (every time) letting this guy back into her heart with all the same access that he'd had before & it wasn't until THEN (looking in the mirror) that she realized the extent that she not only liked him, but actually LOVED him. He might really care for her but I don't think he's going to tell himself that he actually LOVES her until he really believes that she's gone for good...Then all of her worth will start coming to the light like it always does with MEN in general! ugh!

"PERSONALITY is what steals the heart away faster & longer than looks & career do"

Isn't career and look also indications of personality?
Sorry but being flattered by somebody's kindness, caring or compliments is not equal to seeing their personality. The personality is known over years. Vanity check.

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What I meant was....Looks, the car HE drives, The clothes HE wears, the fancy job he goes to every day ARE important factors to ANYONE when picking a potential mate for themselves. BUT, when it comes down to it, Aquas are more INTELLECTUALLY stimulated by the MIND than they are by Material things. That doesn't mean we don't look for the guy with the nice things & nice taste but at the end of the day, I'd rather have the guy that has the mediocre job, the just "ok" car, & the one that treats me like a Queen & that I am the most COMPATIBLE with. Some people specifically look for the Nice cars, the nice house, the nice clothes & the nice job, & that's fine. But at the end of the day, all of those items end up in dressers, garages, closets & file cabinets, leaving you to deal with strickly THEM (their personality)

"A Sag or Aqua female is not willing enough to get involved with people's personalities"

Well part of the problem is, a part from all the nice clothes, the nice looks & "what glitters IS gold" appearance of things, that you can clearly observe, figure out & see WITHOUT even having to know their name, we still know there is more than catches the EYE. There is always more to the story & the more to the story that I'm referring to is the thing that takes more than just one glance to see, more than just one conversation to know & that's the PERSONALITY---their intellect & their mental well-being & it's 2008, we all know a person's intellect can NOT always be measured by the MATERIAL things they possess or by their successes. Aquas know how to look DEEPER into the "smaller pictures" while others observe the "bigger picture" & we know how to quickly weed out who we feel is even slightly compatible with us. Intellectuals can spot intellectuals more quickly & we believe in our OWN instincts. There's nothing wrong with that. Now, if Aquas were the most SINGLE out of every group in the Zodiac, then I'd believe there was a concern but so far I think we Aquas are doing pretty good! Sure, it takes us a longgg time to commit, but in the end the VICTORY in being happy because you WORKED for it is greater than any other feeling