sandyclaws
@sandyclaws
15 YearsCancer
Comments: 0 · Posts: 322 · Topics: 29
No good deed goes unpunished, or....
And typically, the Virgo is upset because they feel like people take advantage of their giving heart ... now wrap that around your head while the point of this thread sinks in.
btw, there is no encouraging a Virgo to do anything, there is no counseling or wise words you can give a Virgo .... because they are unable to recognize that they err.
If you don't err, then nobody has anything valuable to give you.
If you don't err, then nobody has anything valuable to give you.
The only way this Virgo you speak of can get over her is by falling for another.
In your place, I would be scooping him up and making him tag along everytime you've purposely invited a new woman to be part of the gang doing whatever it is you do for fun.
One day, he will be interested in another ... when that happens, he will be able to disconnect from the chains his Virgoness binds himself with.
In your place, I would be scooping him up and making him tag along everytime you've purposely invited a new woman to be part of the gang doing whatever it is you do for fun.
One day, he will be interested in another ... when that happens, he will be able to disconnect from the chains his Virgoness binds himself with.
Posted by P-Angel
btw, there is no encouraging a Virgo to do anything, there is no counseling or wise words you can give a Virgo .... because they are unable to recognize that they err.
If you don't err, then nobody has anything valuable to give you.
That hasn't been my experience with my friend. He freely discusses mistakes he's made, and actively looks for ways to stop making them. He also appreciates the 'advice' I've shared and I can see him acting on some of my suggestions, and those of other people he's turned to for help.
He can be 'righteous' in smallish things sometimes, but in this kind of situation he seems perfectly willing to ask for and use help.
He's not so much angry at being taken advantage of either, as he is at seeing the logic and common sense under his nose, and still feeling compelled, tied, drawn to this person.
I think most of us have been there, and it's tough to unwrap your heart sometimes, even when your head knows what's up.
Posted by sandyclawsPosted by P-Angel
btw, there is no encouraging a Virgo to do anything, there is no counseling or wise words you can give a Virgo .... because they are unable to recognize that they err.
If you don't err, then nobody has anything valuable to give you.
That hasn't been my experience with my friend. He freely discusses mistakes he's made, and actively looks for ways to stop making them. He also appreciates the 'advice' I've shared and I can see him acting on some of my suggestions, and those of other people he's turned to for help.
He can be 'righteous' in smallish things sometimes, but in this kind of situation he seems perfectly willing to ask for and use help.
He's not so much angry at being taken advantage of either, as he is at seeing the logic and common sense under his nose, and still feeling compelled, tied, drawn to this person.
I think most of us have been there, and it's tough to unwrap your heart sometimes, even when your head knows what's up.click to expand
Actually, he isn't accepting that he is in error .. he may be saying the words, though.
He doesn't actively look for ways to stop this, on the contrary, he looks for ways to get back with her .... a person can "say" whatever it is they want to say = how he acts, what he does is the truth.
I remember a Cancer friend I had once ....
He would "say" he loves his dog .. then beat the shit out of it.
do you think he loved his dog?
In your theory, you would ... because he said it.
He would "say" he loves his dog .. then beat the shit out of it.
do you think he loved his dog?
In your theory, you would ... because he said it.
Posted by sandyclaws
... and he was waiting to hear what label she would give him
He told me that he had actually started thinking about flexing his boundaries a bit, that maybe he still could do a relationship with her, even though she was all about this other guy. He had been helping her with all kinds of house stuff, fixed her car, etc. and he finds out he's the 'babysitter'. Ouch.
First of all, I never said 'angry' .. that was your word. I said upset, and indeed he is quite .. if he hangs on words to use as a label so he can find some loop-hole to move in.
Second, there's an ouch up there in place where she isn't recognizing all he does for her, which means the ouch is the outcome of him feeling taken advantage of. And yes, I realize it was your ouch .. however, the whole quote actually describes the situation perfectly. He does everything he can to get a foot-hold, in hopes of more.
Third, it has been your experience as you described the situation in the OP .. because you analyze it differently from your perspective doesn't change his actions. He isn't listening to anything anyone 'says' if he is still attempting to manipulate his way back to her through doing duties and chores for her.
Posted by 25thDecan
Sandy, I have to make a confession, because IT has started again. I'm a black male. I speak american english and I'm intelligent...very much so. I'm also musically gifted(just not in the right place and time due to things out of my control...yet I still write...just linked up with a singer who needs material). I understand everything you typed and you and I have conversed often. No one speaks for me and my understanding but me. So...out of consideration for my friend OP3C's pov and my personal convictions I'm going to bow out of thread. If you have a question, just ask me. I don't feel like blasting someone again. I think life and genuine advice is much better.
I don't even have to talk to you, or about you .. and you lose your sensibilities ... because you just HAVE to take things personally ... you jsut cannot STAND that I might talk to a person and somewhere in your puny mind, you think that if I do talk, then it is slight against you someway.
A victim of your own doing.
You've spent months now referencing where I said you're not smart ... that eats away at you so much that you mention it threads that you create yourself when I'm nowhere in the vacinity.
You know that makes you weak and small, don't you? No, I guess you don't know because if you knew then i wouldn't have to be telling you.
Keeping your dead cousin in mind isn't going to save you from the disgruntlement you cause yourself, you know ... realizing that subjectivity is a choice, is what will save you from yourself.
No ... I guess you didn't know.
No ... I guess you didn't know.
Now I can see why there was a thread on dxp about having the forum moderated. This behavior seems to have escalated and is way beyond what is permitted on moderated boards. Too bad...
^^^you cool beans, Sandy.
Tee hee hee
He obviously wants and loves the Sagittarius .... I just hope he finds a friend who will steer him in the right direction ... which is toward the woman he loves.
seems like alls he has now to help him is pity ... people who whine and say it's sad.
Fuck that ....
He wants to be with her, he loves her and it's obvious by the way he tries to make life easier on her, and anybody who knows Virgos, know that they show love by helping them .... he obviously has people who don't get him, like you, for example.
My energy goes out to him, in hopes he finds his way back into her heart = where he wants to be.
seems like alls he has now to help him is pity ... people who whine and say it's sad.
Fuck that ....
He wants to be with her, he loves her and it's obvious by the way he tries to make life easier on her, and anybody who knows Virgos, know that they show love by helping them .... he obviously has people who don't get him, like you, for example.
My energy goes out to him, in hopes he finds his way back into her heart = where he wants to be.
Ok. That was strange.
Had a scheduled visit this afternoon with vgf that he confirmed twice yesterday in person & via email. He wanted me to bring my tarot cards & help him do a reading. I got a message while I was at the store before heading over that he had gone to play softball with his ex-gf & her team, and the daughter. He called from her house (he refuses to have a cell phone) asking if I'd like to come by there instead & gave me the address. So I stop by & ended up staying & chatting (me, him, her & kid) for over an hour. I had spent a little time with the girl before, so that was normal, but had only really crossed paths with x-gf once at the store & a bit via facebook.
Anyway, we talked about odds & ends, dogs, marketing, movies, random light stuff. Vgf had hurt something playing ball & was going home to soak (he lives 3 blocks down the street from her) and I had lots to do on my errand list. So I stood up to go and the kid asked if I would come back to hang out again soon. Mom seconded the invite. Vgf walked me out to my car, chatted for a bit, then hugged goodbye. He had also hugged hello when I stepped into her living room which isn't our usual greeting.
Aside from the surface interpretation that his plans changed and it was just convenient to have me go there instead of his house, I am wondering what else to think of that. My partner thought he might be using me as leverage with her, as in look at this other woman I spend time with, a minor jealousy thing. I don't know. It's not like he has trouble getting women to date him.
He could just want me to get to know this person he's talked about so much and who is very important to him. Or vice versa. While I was talking to her at one point, I couldn't help but look at him from the corner of me eye, wondering if he wasn't just pleased at having 'his two women' sitting nice & polite in the same room 😛
Had a scheduled visit this afternoon with vgf that he confirmed twice yesterday in person & via email. He wanted me to bring my tarot cards & help him do a reading. I got a message while I was at the store before heading over that he had gone to play softball with his ex-gf & her team, and the daughter. He called from her house (he refuses to have a cell phone) asking if I'd like to come by there instead & gave me the address. So I stop by & ended up staying & chatting (me, him, her & kid) for over an hour. I had spent a little time with the girl before, so that was normal, but had only really crossed paths with x-gf once at the store & a bit via facebook.
Anyway, we talked about odds & ends, dogs, marketing, movies, random light stuff. Vgf had hurt something playing ball & was going home to soak (he lives 3 blocks down the street from her) and I had lots to do on my errand list. So I stood up to go and the kid asked if I would come back to hang out again soon. Mom seconded the invite. Vgf walked me out to my car, chatted for a bit, then hugged goodbye. He had also hugged hello when I stepped into her living room which isn't our usual greeting.
Aside from the surface interpretation that his plans changed and it was just convenient to have me go there instead of his house, I am wondering what else to think of that. My partner thought he might be using me as leverage with her, as in look at this other woman I spend time with, a minor jealousy thing. I don't know. It's not like he has trouble getting women to date him.
He could just want me to get to know this person he's talked about so much and who is very important to him. Or vice versa. While I was talking to her at one point, I couldn't help but look at him from the corner of me eye, wondering if he wasn't just pleased at having 'his two women' sitting nice & polite in the same room 😛
And if anyone has some insights they'd rather share privately, feel free to PM me. It's hard to carry on an adult convo with the annoying interruptions sometimes 😉
I admit I'm very interested in knowing his point of view on this.
Now that I'm rethinking it, the voice mail had xgf in the background, so he was calling right there with her. I wonder if he didn't tell her he had plans with me and she did the 'well have her come here' thing.
She seems like a nice enough person on a 'company' level, but most of us do with strangers 🙂 She's 10 yrs younger than me, 15 younger than him, and cute in that smart chick with glasses way.
Vgf has told me plenty of stories over the years of how she's jerked him & jacked him, then gives him just enough hope to think she can deal with a relationship with him. Meanwhile she dates other guys and even had the latest one as her 'in a relationship' on FB. Vgf says she's had some serious trauma in her life that makes her 'broken', unable to commit to anyone, and she has a pattern of getting close with him, then bugging out & dating someone else, then having issues with that person & going back to vgf. He wants to be done with that cycle, even though he loves her. He doesn't think she can get herself together and he's tired of keeping himself vulnerable.
I can't get a read from her from such a short visit, so it's hard to say if she's doing that consciously or not. I dealt with my alcoholic depressed husband for 15 yrs, and he seemed to have an uncanny way of realizing when i was about to cut him loose. He'd pull some trick out that made me think he meant to change, and I'd give it another go. Finally got so stressed and distraught that it was messing up my health and I cut loose. It still took a long time to really be separate, even after he moved out. I wonder if that's where vgf is with this gal. Guess I'll see eventually...
She seems like a nice enough person on a 'company' level, but most of us do with strangers 🙂 She's 10 yrs younger than me, 15 younger than him, and cute in that smart chick with glasses way.
Vgf has told me plenty of stories over the years of how she's jerked him & jacked him, then gives him just enough hope to think she can deal with a relationship with him. Meanwhile she dates other guys and even had the latest one as her 'in a relationship' on FB. Vgf says she's had some serious trauma in her life that makes her 'broken', unable to commit to anyone, and she has a pattern of getting close with him, then bugging out & dating someone else, then having issues with that person & going back to vgf. He wants to be done with that cycle, even though he loves her. He doesn't think she can get herself together and he's tired of keeping himself vulnerable.
I can't get a read from her from such a short visit, so it's hard to say if she's doing that consciously or not. I dealt with my alcoholic depressed husband for 15 yrs, and he seemed to have an uncanny way of realizing when i was about to cut him loose. He'd pull some trick out that made me think he meant to change, and I'd give it another go. Finally got so stressed and distraught that it was messing up my health and I cut loose. It still took a long time to really be separate, even after he moved out. I wonder if that's where vgf is with this gal. Guess I'll see eventually...
Anyone?
I'm going to have to call him today and ask what is up with his xgf. He was telling me last week about a convo with his counselor, that he is realizing he's not cut out for a 'normal' relationship. We've also talked some about other ways of being in relationships, of loving people. Stuff my partner & I have talked about. Maybe he's trying to sort out a 'particular frienship' with xgf, because I don't think he'll ever just cut ties with her. But if P is right and he's still trying to make it work, he's going to keep getting trashed by her.
I'm going to have to call him today and ask what is up with his xgf. He was telling me last week about a convo with his counselor, that he is realizing he's not cut out for a 'normal' relationship. We've also talked some about other ways of being in relationships, of loving people. Stuff my partner & I have talked about. Maybe he's trying to sort out a 'particular frienship' with xgf, because I don't think he'll ever just cut ties with her. But if P is right and he's still trying to make it work, he's going to keep getting trashed by her.
Thanks for the words of wisdom 25th & VL 🙂
After talking with vgf today I am getting the serious picture that he's going for another dip in the pool, never mind the piranas. He's says he's "taking it day by day", which apparently means acting like her bf until she disses him again. LOL Who knows. I think I'm going to back off the amateur counseling thing and and just be friends. When he made that comment, I got the vibe he was mentally flinching, like expecting me to get on his case for being stupid. I'd like to, but he's been scolded by his other friends already, so I can save the effort.
Luckily talking about his relationship troubles isn't the basis for our friendship, so I guess we'll just have our usual fun when we hang out. Assuming his x?gf? lets him 😛
After talking with vgf today I am getting the serious picture that he's going for another dip in the pool, never mind the piranas. He's says he's "taking it day by day", which apparently means acting like her bf until she disses him again. LOL Who knows. I think I'm going to back off the amateur counseling thing and and just be friends. When he made that comment, I got the vibe he was mentally flinching, like expecting me to get on his case for being stupid. I'd like to, but he's been scolded by his other friends already, so I can save the effort.
Luckily talking about his relationship troubles isn't the basis for our friendship, so I guess we'll just have our usual fun when we hang out. Assuming his x?gf? lets him 😛
Oh yeah - she's a cappy!
Posted by sandyclaws
Ok. That was strange.
Had a scheduled visit this afternoon with vgf that he confirmed twice yesterday in person & via email. He wanted me to bring my tarot cards & help him do a reading. I got a message while I was at the store before heading over that he had gone to play softball with his ex-gf & her team, and the daughter. He called from her house (he refuses to have a cell phone) asking if I'd like to come by there instead & gave me the address. So I stop by & ended up staying & chatting (me, him, her & kid) for over an hour. I had spent a little time with the girl before, so that was normal, but had only really crossed paths with x-gf once at the store & a bit via facebook.
Anyway, we talked about odds & ends, dogs, marketing, movies, random light stuff. Vgf had hurt something playing ball & was going home to soak (he lives 3 blocks down the street from her) and I had lots to do on my errand list. So I stood up to go and the kid asked if I would come back to hang out again soon. Mom seconded the invite. Vgf walked me out to my car, chatted for a bit, then hugged goodbye. He had also hugged hello when I stepped into her living room which isn't our usual greeting.
Aside from the surface interpretation that his plans changed and it was just convenient to have me go there instead of his house, I am wondering what else to think of that. My partner thought he might be using me as leverage with her, as in look at this other woman I spend time with, a minor jealousy thing. I don't know. It's not like he has trouble getting women to date him.
He could just want me to get to know this person he's talked about so much and who is very important to him. Or vice versa. While I was talking to her at one point, I couldn't help but look at him from the corner of me eye, wondering if he wasn't just pleased at having 'his two women' sitting nice & polite in the same room 😛
Sandy,
LOL @ the "hello hugging". From what you've stated, could be possible that he was trying to make her somewhat jealous by having you there. Just my thought.
Question: You've been in eachother's lives for quite sometime now - is she aware of the nature of your relationship and the fact that you have a long term partner?
Posted by sandyclaws
Thanks for the words of wisdom 25th & VL 🙂
After talking with vgf today I am getting the serious picture that he's going for another dip in the pool, never mind the piranas. He's says he's "taking it day by day", which apparently means acting like her bf until she disses him again. LOL Who knows. I think I'm going to back off the amateur counseling thing and and just be friends. When he made that comment, I got the vibe he was mentally flinching, like expecting me to get on his case for being stupid. I'd like to, but he's been scolded by his other friends already, so I can save the effort.
Luckily talking about his relationship troubles isn't the basis for our friendship, so I guess we'll just have our usual fun when we hang out. Assuming his x?gf? lets him 😛
I could be wrong but, the feeling in my gut tells me that this is not gonna work out too well for him. At least not right now. He's completely hooked on this woman and it's as if she doesn't even know he's alive (well, only when she needs a babysitter..lol). Can't even say I'm cautiously optimistic. In any event, good luck to him and thank God he has a friend like you to lend a shoulder if/when she tramples all over his heart again.
Oh, so I was right.
You don't have to say that you were wrong ... I got that the moment you changed your song and dance a couple days ago, after I posted about him needing a friend who is going to steer him towards where he wants to be, rather than where you want him to be.
I'm always right .... and how beautiful of a thing that is for me that I can sniff bullshit miles away.
lol ... hopefully, he can try to be happy now, and hopefully, he'll begin to see that you have to be told what is for his own good, because you lack the ability to see it for yourself. Hopefully, his woman will help him mend away from people who mean to entrap him.
You don't have to say that you were wrong ... I got that the moment you changed your song and dance a couple days ago, after I posted about him needing a friend who is going to steer him towards where he wants to be, rather than where you want him to be.
I'm always right .... and how beautiful of a thing that is for me that I can sniff bullshit miles away.
lol ... hopefully, he can try to be happy now, and hopefully, he'll begin to see that you have to be told what is for his own good, because you lack the ability to see it for yourself. Hopefully, his woman will help him mend away from people who mean to entrap him.
The irony of P equating misery with happiness is hilarious!
He's said himself in regards to his x/gf that one definition of insanity is taking the same actions and expecting different results. Sounds like he's been in counseling before, been to the al-anon meetings before, and still gets sucked back in.
From her point of view as a single mom with limited income, it's kind of logical and practical to keep him stringing along. He provides stability, money, child care, house/car repairs, socializing, and comes back for more no matter who she sleeps with or calls her boyfriend. And she gets to control who he dates and socializes with. All with never having to commit or make any real changes.
I think he could have been trying to make her jealous, though it doesn't seem like his style . At very least waving a woman under her nose that is outside their pool of friends (his ex-wife and the last 2 gals he dated all knew the gf previously). I would imagine he's told her that I'm in a relationship etc. but I've found people often don't take same-sex female relationships as serously as hetero ones. The assumption being if you throw a man into the mix, the relationship dissolves 😛
Oh well. I'm curious to see if we do our usual hang out Saturday. If he cancels, I'd assume the x/gf has stated her preference. I hope he sorts it out though. I don't see the gal changing her spots after 6 years of successfully jerking his chain. Neither does he, hence his struggle to break it off with her.
Sad train wreck...
He's said himself in regards to his x/gf that one definition of insanity is taking the same actions and expecting different results. Sounds like he's been in counseling before, been to the al-anon meetings before, and still gets sucked back in.
From her point of view as a single mom with limited income, it's kind of logical and practical to keep him stringing along. He provides stability, money, child care, house/car repairs, socializing, and comes back for more no matter who she sleeps with or calls her boyfriend. And she gets to control who he dates and socializes with. All with never having to commit or make any real changes.
I think he could have been trying to make her jealous, though it doesn't seem like his style . At very least waving a woman under her nose that is outside their pool of friends (his ex-wife and the last 2 gals he dated all knew the gf previously). I would imagine he's told her that I'm in a relationship etc. but I've found people often don't take same-sex female relationships as serously as hetero ones. The assumption being if you throw a man into the mix, the relationship dissolves 😛
Oh well. I'm curious to see if we do our usual hang out Saturday. If he cancels, I'd assume the x/gf has stated her preference. I hope he sorts it out though. I don't see the gal changing her spots after 6 years of successfully jerking his chain. Neither does he, hence his struggle to break it off with her.
Sad train wreck...
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He told me that he had actually started thinking about flexing his boundaries a bit, that maybe he still could do a relationship with her, even though she was all about this other guy. He had been helping her with all kinds of house stuff, fixed her car, etc. and he finds out he's the 'babysitter'. Ouch.
He's also said when he is out with other women (he's tried dating twice since they broke up) it feels like she's watching him, and she's called him up later saying she 'had a vibe' he was with someone else and she didn't like it. She 'joked' that she had a hard time not slashing one gal's tires that he was dating. She told him she still wants to see other people, but doesn't want him to.
During one break-up talk, he asked about the weekly afterschool care for her kid, as in do you have someone for next week, since we're broken up now. She replied with a WTF? like well why would *that* change 😛
All this virgo rescuing, good-deed-doing, helping is getting so used, it's really tough to watch. I'm glad he's talkign to friends, seeing a counselor etc, but it also sounds like he's been stuck in this loop for years. I keep reading about virgos cutting people off that wrong them, and vgf has done that to other people, but this gal seems to have short-circuited his logic.
Thoughts? I know any help I can offer has limits, and I don't plan to dig in beyond where I'm asked, but maybe all y'alls have some deeper insight as to why a smart logical guy would be so pwned by a user.