Pluto Aspects should hurt

One of the least understood factors in astrology is that there is no such thing as a good Pluto aspect; there is only a less bad one, but even this rather sidesteps the reality of all applications of Pluto, Pluto is an imperative to transform, most especially in the mode of configured signs and houses, and whilst a square might be experientially more stressful and tense it also provides a greater impetus to the necessary psychic metamorphosis that the lord of the underworld requires. A trine to Pluto therefore might not be nearly so distressing, but by the same token, it creates far less urgency such that the transformational urge might be put off, perhaps indefinitely, and (once again) if we understand that all aspects are squares, then the undealt-with trine to Pluto very quickly degenerates into a square-like experience. I read a lot of very subjective Plutonic philosophy from astrologers (although I am not for one minute proclaiming the suepriority of my own philosophy in this respect), and it drives me nuts when I read about how somebody enjoys their Pluto aspects, they love to transform themselves and make-over their affairs in whatever house. This view more or less contains the unquestioned premise that Plutonic experience is positive experience.

Links: http://chirotic.wordpress.com/2008/08/02/advanced-vulcanology-aspects-of-pluto/
+
http://chirotic.wordpress.com/2009/04/08/venus-pluto-love-and-trans/<BR> +
http://chirotic.wordpress.com/2012/09/26/how-big-is-your-pluto/

Posted by Chael
what do u think about the pluto person being the one that hurts people?

Unevolved. Hurting themselves and others till the face what internal demons they have or endured and grow from them. Highest point would be healing and channeling destructive power, constructively.

Posted by Impulsv
I think both hurt not only pluto person
I've been the pluto n never felt I had the upper hand.
"psychic metamorphosis that the lord of the underworld requires."

click to expand

This covers natal Pluto aspects. Though yeah, until you master yourself, your desires will lead to your own undoing, usually by your own hand.

What about Sun Sextile Pluto?

Or Mars Square Pluto. How can one channel that energy?

Posted by aime7
What about Sun Sextile Pluto?

Can manifest as a supreme entitlement and even megalomania or a deeply disarming deference and this energy is incredibly difficult to manage and cathartise. The craving for rulership is intensified and untransformed creates a classic —control freak?? especially when in square or conjunction. The opposition is often an entirely different case, Pluto can be disowned and then must be experienced instead through others (the same can be said for any Pluto opposition to some extent (or indeed any opposition!)).

Posted by aime7
Or Mars Square Pluto. How can one channel that energy?

click to expand

Intense Work Outs, Sex sessions and/or possibly do a combat sport.
First things that come to mind.

Hmm I've always loved combat sports ever since I was a kid. I think it's also important not to waste that intense,abundant energy especially as a male.

Posted by aime7
Hmm I've always loved combat sports ever since I was a kid. I think it's also important not to waste that intense,abundant energy especially as a male.

As long as you use the energy building toward something (career, self-mastery or a new shelf to hold your stuff, etc) it should work for you and feel good.

Plus you know how your Cappy Sun feels when you build toward goals without wasting any effort~

Posted by DarkFire
I have Pluto in Scorpio. Sun square to pluto, Moon conjunct, Mars opposite, Venus trine, and Neptune sextile. Most of that sounds horrible lol.

-pats-
Moon/Pluto + Venus/Pluto + Neptune/Pluto explains why your so keen/disillusioned with women. Does not help when your Sun/Pluto gives you a dominating aura, with the risk of becoming/being a megalomaniac. Mars/Pluto gives lots of energy, sex-wise, can make you a sexual monster or draw in folks wanting to get you sexually.

Curious, how would you react to a woman saying she wants you for just for you and the feelings you give her?

Does having a Mars-Pluto aspect in Mutable signs weaken the aspect?

Posted by aime7
Does having a Mars-Pluto aspect in Mutable signs weaken the aspect?

Really depends on the houses your Mars and Pluto are in.

Angular/Cardinal Houses (1/4/7/10) = Powerful and in your face.
Fixed Houses (2,5,8,11) = More internal
Cadent/Mutable (3,6,9,12) = Weak because it's mostly mental and don't active as often as in other houses.

I have a 4th House Mars in Virgo and a 7th House Pluto in Sagittarius.

Posted by Impulsv

He doesn't believe a woman could ever want him for him. 😢 per other thread. So sirhorn how does one fix that energy?

It's difficult to say, I can say reflecting and digging deep into your mind & soul and facing the darkest parts of yourself, but everyone says that as if it's easy.

Then once you do, you can either accept and learn to love all of yourself, including the dark parts or try to kill the part of yourself you hate. The latter has questionable effectiveness though.

Then once you made inner peace withing yourself, you can unleash your dark side and use it build or heal or destroy in a positive way.

It's a life long journey, we won;t stop growing and changing till we die.

Posted by aime7
I have a 4th House Mars in Virgo and a 7th House Pluto in Sagittarius.

I have Mars in 4th and Pluto in 7th too!

You totally plan to run your house when you have one.
On relationships, power struggles and yeah you'll change from relationships. Are you Scorpio bait?

Yes I'm Scorpio bait!

Or that I seem to attract a lot of Scorpio or heavy Plutonian females. It's either hit or miss with Scorp females for me.

Posted by aime7
Or that I seem to attract a lot of Scorpio or heavy Plutonian females. It's either hit or miss with Scorp females for me.

Blame your Pluto in 7th for that.
Attracting women tat want control/dominate you or be controlled/dominated BY you.
Have fun with that.

Hmm I guess that kind of ties with Pluto Opposite Ascendant/Conjunct Descendant?

Posted by aime7
Hmm I guess that kind of ties with Pluto Opposite Ascendant/Conjunct Descendant?

Yup. You can't turn off the powerful aura, draws in folks like moths to a flame.
Enemies might try hiding and taking you out through the shadows though. :/

Hmm I've always hated attention and drawing people to me. I'm extremely private, which is what many Plutonian influenced people are.

And yeah I always feel like someone is lurking in the shadows, trying to take me out.

Posted by aime7
And yeah I always feel like someone is lurking in the shadows, trying to take me out.

-Nods- I feel you on the unknown threats lurking about.

Posted by SirHorns
... it drives me nuts when I read about how somebody enjoys their Pluto aspects, they love to transform

themselves and make-over their affairs in whatever house. This view more or less contains the

unquestioned premise that Plutonic experience is positive experience.

Maybe because PLUTO has become synonymous with SEXY!



Example 01 - Mars-Pluto:

'Mars Pluto energy IS sexy...

... it's super smoldering.

You can actually feel the fire burning on the inside (when around a person with Mars Pluto).

Bottom line: Mars Pluto is dead sexy ...'

...........................


It isn't until the end of the article that the associated drawbacks are highlighted.

...........................


'... Mars Pluto square or opposition people... have learned or need to learn to deal with their

personal violence, whether it's physical or emotional or psychological, spiritual even. '



Example 02 - Venus-Pluto:

'The square is an intense, super sexy aspect that oozes personal magnetism and charm.

You may be seductive without even trying....

Love may feel like poison.'

...........................


Yeah.

There are some great points in the article--


'... It's about understanding what attracts you and why.

It's about confronting your shadows and shame.

It's about giving up any need to control — surrender.'


-- but so much of Pluto's reality has been romanticized.


'You may be drawn to vampires, forbidden love, bondage... '


It sounds like it's all passion, crushed velvet, candlelight--





-- and fabulously high cheekbones like Louis, here ^. 😄



But as you said-- that isn't very likely.






Great thread topic btw.

+1

i have pluto conjunct my ascendant in scorpio. i am very intense in anything i set out to do. i have many acquaintances and few friends i consider near and dear. i'm definitely not approachable and have been called an ice queen. my love life is always an affliction because i feel so deeply, and sometimes in not the healthiest ways and not with the healthiest people.

i've had venus conjunct pluto in synastry with three men in my lives... all three were very sexually charged... and some of the best sex i've ever had. but it's painful and the tension you can cut with a knife... we never seem to be on the same page with each other... but maybe that is what made the sex so great... because it wasn't just sex.. it was transcendent.. the love or emotions don't even have to be there... it's more like a self-exploration but with someone else. my last partner with whom i have a very tight orb in this aspect said having sex with me was "dangerous".. i asked him why.. he said, "because all we'd want to do is have sex with each other". it's an addictive and definitely dangerous energy, imo...

just as the ones before, this current venus conjunct pluto connection is already wrought with drama. we cannot be together. it's definitely not love, but my body really craves him and that absence is painful.

pluto is heavy. i need a break from it, i think.

Posted by DarkFire
What about learning how to charm the dead, and rising them up to join the army of the dammed? Does pluto have anything to do with necromancy?

lol

Maybe so.

Posted by bloodflood
i have pluto conjunct my ascendant in scorpio. i am very intense in anything i set out to do. i have many acquaintances and few friends i consider near and dear. i'm definitely not approachable and have been called an ice queen. my love life is always an affliction because i feel so deeply, and sometimes in not the healthiest ways and not with the healthiest people.

i've had venus conjunct pluto in synastry with three men in my lives... all three were very sexually charged... and some of the best sex i've ever had. but it's painful and the tension you can cut with a knife... we never seem to be on the same page with each other... but maybe that is what made the sex so great... because it wasn't just sex.. it was transcendent.. the love or emotions don't even have to be there... it's more like a self-exploration but with someone else. my last partner with whom i have a very tight orb in this aspect said having sex with me was "dangerous".. i asked him why.. he said, "because all we'd want to do is have sex with each other". it's an addictive and definitely dangerous energy, imo...

just as the ones before, this current venus conjunct pluto connection is already wrought with drama. we cannot be together. it's definitely not love, but my body really craves him and that absence is painful.

pluto is heavy. i need a break from it, i think.

That sounds sexy.

Hmm I have moon opposite pluto, saturn conjunct pluto, and neptune sextile pluto. Mine's more about internal issues.

Posted by SirHorns
Intense Work Outs, Sex sessions and/or possibly do a combat sport.
First things that come to mind.

This is very true for me. Mars square (a critical degree) Pluto, along with Sun opposition Pluto, Uranus sextile Pluto, Saturn trine Pluto and Neptune sextile Pluto. Fixed Sun-Mars-Pluto T-Square. If I can't get excessive physical activity to let the energy out, I'm screwed. Digging into the artistic fields also works, but I do have a 5th house Pluto.

KVZZMIR. That's it. I used to think that my mild insomnia was caused by Mars in Virgo, but Mars Square Pluto makes sense. I also do a lot of DIY work around my house(Mars in 4th house) I also have experience with physical labor, I worked in a warehouse this summer, now I'm going to be a baggage handler soon. I also shadowbox into the wee hours of the morning haha.

Posted by DarkFire
Hmm maybe my mars opposite pluto, and moon conjunct with pluto could explain why I've always been different and rebel against my generation. I always hated being the same as everyone else, and made sure I was completely different in every aspect. If something was cool or liked by a large group of people, I wanted to be the complete opposite of what it was.

What Uranus aspects do you have? Got any 11th house stuff?

Pluto in Scorpio Generation is ...yeah I wouldn't be surprised if we/they doom the world by NOT having procreational sex and dooming their countries via being unable to support itself with low labor force. Immigrants would just be like band-aids to treat a flesh eating virus.

Ineffective.

Posted by Android

Posted by Android
Pluto opposite MC.
Venus square Pluto.
Mars trine Pluto.

Cancer Mars, 11th house.
Scorpio Pluto, 3rd.
Aqua Venus, 6th.

click to expand

Yeah you'll really go above and beyond when it comes to stuff involving your community, siblings, networking and working in group projects/efforts. Your Venus has a soft spot for those with health issues.

You'll love hard and intensely, your intensity might intimidate others though and likely cash with your reputation.

Posted by Android
Am I the odd man out?

Would have to see your whole chart to see if you have Saturn blocking/restricting any planets as well as what else could be going on.

Power struggles with siblings or folks in your community a theme in your life?

Posted by DarkFire
Oddly enough my Taurus Mars is in the 11th house. My Venus, Jupiter, and rising are opposite Uranus. Uranus is conjunct with Neptune in Capricorn.

Uranus opposition the Ascendant shows that relationships stand in the way of achieving the freedom you want. You attract people who demand their own freedom, even though it means you must curtail yours, and this annoys you. Attracted to people who are defiant of authority, you'd like to share the enthusiasm of their independence. You feel uncomfortable when anyone asks you to make a commitment, for you consider contracts and related obligations as too limiting and frustrating. Marriage in the traditional sense is not for you. You prefer a more liberal association in which the only binding agent is your emotional attraction to your partner.

Link: http://astromatrix.org/Horoscopes/Planet-Aspects/Uranus-Opposition-Ascendant

Posted by Android
I don't find any of that reminiscent of myself except for possibly the group projects thing, and definitely loving intensely.

Your early childhood experiences will have an unusually strong effect upon your whole life. One parent in particular will be very important to you, and it is essential that that parent's influence be for the good. The problem is that the energies resulting from your early childhood experiences operate at a very deep inner level, probably unconsciously, so that they affect your life in ways that are difficult to understand. Negative experiences in childhood may give rise to fears, which bring about compulsive behavior patterns and bad habits. You might not even be aware of these fears, but if you understood them consciously they would be less difficult. On the other hand, attitudes that you pick up from your elders may seriously limit your ability to make judgments on the basis of your experiences.

Link: http://astromatrix.org/Horoscopes/Planet-Aspects/Pluto-Opposition-Midheaven

My strongest aspect is Pluto square my Asc. I'm pretty sure that this is what is ruining my life.

Posted by KVZZMIR11
Explain...

Taurus Mars, 9...(you said this this was a weak placement?)

Scorpio Pluto, 3rd

Aqua Venus, 5th.

Mars in Taurus isn't the best place for Mars since it's slow to anger. Also in a mutable house, so events based around him won't show up as often as it would if he were in an Angular house.

Do you plan to get a Masters/Doctorate/PhD in your Major or go into Law?
Also I see power struggles with either siblings or community. You know how to use your words to verbal cut down a person ruthlessly.
Your Venus in 5th implies your soft loving nature comes out with fun and games, romance and children.

Together they Form a T-square, your Venus would be the key in solving/dealing with the power struggle between the other two houses.

Posted by DarkFire

Posted by SirHorns

Posted by DarkFire
Oddly enough my Taurus Mars is in the 11th house. My Venus, Jupiter, and rising are opposite Uranus. Uranus is conjunct with Neptune in Capricorn.

Uranus opposition the Ascendant shows that relationships stand in the way of achieving the freedom you want. You attract people who demand their own freedom, even though it means you must curtail yours, and this annoys you. Attracted to people who are defiant of authority, you'd like to share the enthusiasm of their independence. You feel uncomfortable when anyone asks you to make a commitment, for you consider contracts and related obligations as too limiting and frustrating. Marriage in the traditional sense is not for you. You prefer a more liberal association in which the only binding agent is your emotional attraction to your partner.

Link: http://astromatrix.org/Horoscopes/Planet-Aspects/Uranus-Opposition-Ascendant

This is the type of stuff that keeps me loving and researching astrology. How the fuck could anyone know that? I don't understand why people don't believe in astrology. This makes sense and is 99% accurate. Every relationship I've ever had was with women who thought they could win/control/fix/ forever be with me. All that stuff is why I break off all my relationships. My own personal freedom is more important then commitment, and I seem to attract women who refuse to change to earn my commitment. I also tend to give off a vibe that I'm easy to obtain, but that is far from reality.

click to expand

Occult (Hidden)Knowledge.
Plus you know how everyone just nods and accepts anything that looks scientific like sheep.
Also to think this is it, there is nothing greater and anyone thinking so is a moron or in denial.

Posted by Impulsv
What about a person with these aspects
Moon square Pluto 11 Capricorn 12'37" 4 Libra 22'38" 6.83
S Mercury trine Pluto 27 Taurus 8'45" 4 Libra 22'38" 7.23
S Venus opposition Pluto 6 Aries 42'10" 4 Libra 22'38" 2.33
S Mars square Pluto 12 Cancer 17'27" 4 Libra 22'38" 7.92
S Saturn square Pluto 2 Cancer 6'41" 4 Libra 22'38" 2.27
A Neptune sextile Pluto 8 Sagittarius 45'17" 4 Libra 22'38" 4.38

Mars/Pluto = Superwoman when it comes to getting stuff you desire or working.

Mercury/Pluto = Every word spoken has power. Words left unsaid have impact. You know how to read between the lines of conversations.

Venus/Pluto = You love hard and raw, but struggle with balance between all consuming love or being more soft about it.

Saturn/Pluto = Badass...I mean authority will be a thing for you. Also iron will.

Pluto/Neptune = ...I need to look this up more as I don't have it natally or see it in action.

Posted by caliber
Neptune sextile Pluto orb -3??03'
Saturn semi-sextile Pluto orb -0??36'
Moon sesqui-quadrate Pluto orb +2??43'

these are mine.... really, why does everything have to eff with my moon -_____-;

from what i read, i can identify with the constant need to revamp myself. it's like i'm born again.

Cause her mooncakes brings all your planets to her yard~

-SHOT DEAD- (Had to say it.;P)

Posted by caliber
LOL

staaahhpp >_>; i need to put a guard dog in it then. hmph.


oohhhh lookie here. i'm also a victim of Pluto Conjunction Rising Orb 1??07'

*lights a match to chart*

You know all that does is breed another Caliber that comes with a fiery background to boost her sex appeal.

Posted by DarkFire
Occult (Hidden)Knowledge.
Plus you know how everyone just nods and accepts anything that looks scientific like sheep.
Also to think this is it, there is nothing greater and anyone thinking so is a moron or in denial.

I agree with the former, but the ladder I feel the opposite. I feel there is so much more then what we see, and those who believe this is all there was or ever will be are blind, oblivious, and closed minded.



The last line was the thinking of a "logical" Gemini that "doesn't believe in astrology" yet was totally happy to blame is emotional issues on is Gemini influence. 😐

I agree with you and just let them live in the small mental box they made for themselves. Can't help'em all after all.

Posted by Hotbeefy
Sun opposite Pluto
Mars & chiron Trine Pluto
Pluto sextile neptune & uranus
Pluto Bi-Quintile MC
Pluto Sesquiquadrates Moon & Venus

Sun opposite Pluto felt the strongest.

And on top of that, my Pluto is Retro and on 3rd house. It's like private detective side of pluto! 😄 It also gives me boost to investigate, but sometimes I goes deeper into (If something got very interest) until you got the core.

But the only thing what I seriously want to know is that Pluto Sesquiquardrates moon & venus (Both square each other) called Yod Negative. I seriously want to have that information, but they don't have it since it doesn't come up far. 😐

Yods are a rare aspect formation so info would be limited.
Yod Negative is a new one for me...

I got way too much pluto. Issues galore. Not fun at all but I can deal.

Posted by WaterCup
I got way too much pluto. Issues galore. Not fun at all but I can deal.

Sharing is caring~

It's healthy to complain about your Pluto sometimes. I attract Plutonians and those hidden enemies are no joke!
Pluto needs hugs and someone it can be vulnerable with. 😎

Sun /Pluto
Moon /Pluto
Mercury /Pluto
Mars /Pluto
Neptune /Pluto
Pluto /Ascendant

Pluto in the 7th
3 T-Squares w/Pluto 😈

Posted by shellshocker
It's healthy to complain about your Pluto sometimes. I attract Plutonians and those hidden enemies are no joke!
Pluto needs hugs and someone it can be vulnerable with. 😎

Sun /Pluto
Moon /Pluto
Mercury /Pluto
Mars /Pluto
Neptune /Pluto
Pluto /Ascendant

Pluto in the 7th
3 T-Squares w/Pluto 😈

...so how was hell like? Is there an ice rink there?

Posted by SirHorns

Posted by shellshocker
It's healthy to complain about your Pluto sometimes. I attract Plutonians and those hidden enemies are no joke!
Pluto needs hugs and someone it can be vulnerable with. 😎

Sun /Pluto
Moon /Pluto
Mercury /Pluto
Mars /Pluto
Neptune /Pluto
Pluto /Ascendant

Pluto in the 7th
3 T-Squares w/Pluto 😈

...so how was hell like? Is there an ice rink there?

click to expand

😏 funny enough, I wore Neptune headphones throughout a large part of my visit. I recommend a thick woven scarf... to choke the sh** out of those devil bastards

Posted by DarkFire
Well my moon and pluto are both scorpio, and both in the 5th house. Yay (I think) no idea what a T square is yet. I'll take a guess and say my Leo sun, Scorpio moon, and Taurus Mars make a T square.

You have a T-Cross (also called the T-Square) when two planets that make an opposition aspect (180 degrees) are both making a square aspect (90 degrees) to some third planet. Draw lines connecting all three and you have a T.
Since the square and opposition aspects are supposed to be —stressful BAD aspects??, beginners usually get terrified whenever they spot a T-Cross in a horoscope. Guess what? This configuration frequently appears in the charts of business leaders, corporation presidents, and other dynamic people. That's because the stress is focused. Having a T-Cross is like sitting on a 3-legged chair. You know where the problem is, and that makes it easier to fix.

The planet that makes the square aspects with the opposing planets gets emphasized. We say that it is in Point Focus.
That means it gains in importance when you are interpreting the chart.

Link: http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/TCross15.1.htm

Posted by SirHorns

Posted by WaterCup
I got way too much pluto. Issues galore. Not fun at all but I can deal.

Sharing is caring~

click to expand

Pluto conj moon, mars & saturn.
Pluto sq sun.
Pluto sext venus, neptune, uranus & jupiter.

Basically, pluto on everything except mercury. Scorpio (4 planets), sagittarius (2 planets), capricorn (3 planets) & aquarius (1 planet)...so they are all in close proximity hence the unavoidable pluto thing.

Don't want to hear what you think lol. I KNOW I'm a mess.

Posted by WaterCup

Posted by SirHorns

Posted by WaterCup
I got way too much pluto. Issues galore. Not fun at all but I can deal.

Sharing is caring~

Pluto conj moon, mars & saturn.
Pluto sq sun.
Pluto sext venus, neptune, uranus & jupiter.

Basically, pluto on everything except mercury. Scorpio (4 planets), sagittarius (2 planets), capricorn (3 planets) & aquarius (1 planet)...so they are all in close proximity hence the unavoidable pluto thing.

Don't want to hear what you think lol. I KNOW I'm a mess.

click to expand

'

*Hawt Mess

Hell you probably have an interesting stories to tell with all that going on. Manage to touch people's souls yet? 😄

Posted by SirHorns

Posted by WaterCup

Posted by SirHorns

Posted by WaterCup
I got way too much pluto. Issues galore. Not fun at all but I can deal.

Sharing is caring~

Pluto conj moon, mars & saturn.
Pluto sq sun.
Pluto sext venus, neptune, uranus & jupiter.

Basically, pluto on everything except mercury. Scorpio (4 planets), sagittarius (2 planets), capricorn (3 planets) & aquarius (1 planet)...so they are all in close proximity hence the unavoidable pluto thing.

Don't want to hear what you think lol. I KNOW I'm a mess.

'

*Hawt Mess

Hell you probably have an interesting stories to tell with all that going on. Manage to touch people's souls yet? 😄

click to expand

In good & bad ways. I'll tell you one thing though- people who loved me end up hating me & people who hated me end up loving me. It's weird.

The ones that loved me always tell me that maybe they loved me before knowing the "real" me, which they hate. LMAO
My haters always tell me that maybe they hated me before knowing the "real" me, which they love. SHRUGS

I convert souls. From love to hate & hate to love. All fine by me 😄

Ooh & I get to hear super juicy stories. People tell me EVERYTHING 😉