missmorals
@missmorals
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One for the Leo men
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I think it's overrated that people mix best with their own crowd - fire signs with fire signs, water with water, and so forth. I'm rarely attracted to a Sagittarius or Aries, never have been actually, we always end up as really good friends. Probably because we're very alike.
The mother in "Malcolm in the middle" is like my worst nightmare. She's not a woman, she's a man with a vagina. Seriousely, befroe I go to bed I always check under my bed and in the closet to make sure she's not there.
Yes, I'm intiminated by powerful women, basically because I'm always in love with a gender or an ideal, and not a personality. Once I get to know the person behind the gender, it all gets to real for me and we part as friends. I have been dating a special Scorpio off and on, I like her strenght and character, but I really hate what relationships evolve to.
So to answer your question, yes I like my women submissive. But there's a difference between being submissive and being a doormat. Here's the problem though - there's no secret formula. Character and strenght is a must if you want me to truly respect you, but once I respect you 100% the passion dies. Somehow I think that men and women in our most primal state are meant to battle eachother, and not respect eachother. The sex is also pretty bad if there's too much respect there because I get too self-conscious. I can't seem to lose myself in the act.
To sum it up, I really enjoy those American scare films of the 1950s. You know, the working husband, the seemingly innocent housewife. The sex with the lights off (altough I really perfer lights on). "C'mon hon, it's Satuday. Do your thing" - I wonder what Freud would say about me.
The mother in "Malcolm in the middle" is like my worst nightmare. She's not a woman, she's a man with a vagina. Seriousely, befroe I go to bed I always check under my bed and in the closet to make sure she's not there.
Yes, I'm intiminated by powerful women, basically because I'm always in love with a gender or an ideal, and not a personality. Once I get to know the person behind the gender, it all gets to real for me and we part as friends. I have been dating a special Scorpio off and on, I like her strenght and character, but I really hate what relationships evolve to.
So to answer your question, yes I like my women submissive. But there's a difference between being submissive and being a doormat. Here's the problem though - there's no secret formula. Character and strenght is a must if you want me to truly respect you, but once I respect you 100% the passion dies. Somehow I think that men and women in our most primal state are meant to battle eachother, and not respect eachother. The sex is also pretty bad if there's too much respect there because I get too self-conscious. I can't seem to lose myself in the act.
To sum it up, I really enjoy those American scare films of the 1950s. You know, the working husband, the seemingly innocent housewife. The sex with the lights off (altough I really perfer lights on). "C'mon hon, it's Satuday. Do your thing" - I wonder what Freud would say about me.
you're kidding, right?
That was good honest analysis of your thoughts Enfant. I think the Leo man is a traditionalist at heart. Dinner cooked at 6pm on the table, lady to be a lady i.e. all dolled up, respects him in public,hangs on his every work blah blah....well duh!..that's what most men want but some accept that fact that IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN..lol...but not our leo male...In my opinion, he still wants the woman to play the traditional wife role and he does not want a challenge, despite astrology saying they do. My friends sister is a Cappy and she has been with a leo for quite some time. He TOTALLY controls her but she seems to just go along to avoid the headache of an argument. She just can't be bothered to argue or have heated debates..he pushes her to have these..but she just doesn't care..maybe that's the secret...If I ever had a fight with my leo ex...I didn't care if we took it to the streets, we'd argue till the cows came home..then we wouldn't talk to each other for a few days because we'd said too much....you don't realise at the time, but resentments do build up...be careful what you say when arguing!...It didn't end because of that..
Kisses..you were with a Leo too? yep I defo think there are a lot of leo male/water sign girlies...I would've set that leo of yours straight in a few days!...
I was sitting at work today (haven't been well for a few days) and I was staring at this muffin in the morning with my coffee...I obviously wasn't in the mood to eat and my face must've said so because the leo across the room started laughing..(we always give each other a royal wave in the morning to say hi)...so I look up at him and he says "you are obviously not impressed by whatever you are looking at"...hahah..didn't realise he was looking!!....he's sooooooo lovely..and shares the same birthday as my ex..24th July!...he's with a cancer woman...they have a baby..and he's married...
Sigh..all the good ones are married!
Kisses..you were with a Leo too? yep I defo think there are a lot of leo male/water sign girlies...I would've set that leo of yours straight in a few days!...
I was sitting at work today (haven't been well for a few days) and I was staring at this muffin in the morning with my coffee...I obviously wasn't in the mood to eat and my face must've said so because the leo across the room started laughing..(we always give each other a royal wave in the morning to say hi)...so I look up at him and he says "you are obviously not impressed by whatever you are looking at"...hahah..didn't realise he was looking!!....he's sooooooo lovely..and shares the same birthday as my ex..24th July!...he's with a cancer woman...they have a baby..and he's married...
Sigh..all the good ones are married!
Posted by missmorals
Dinner cooked at 6pm on the table, lady to be a lady i.e. all dolled up, respects him in public,hangs on his every work blah blah....well duh!..that's what most men want but some accept that fact that IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN..lol...but not our leo male...In my opinion, he still wants the woman to play the traditional wife role and he does not want a challenge
all i have to say is: fuck that. 😉
LMAO..hence your comment on another post of mine..."you can have them..more trouble than their worth"...hahha..
ohhhhh idk. when it comes to relationships, in many ways i'm what one would call a "good woman": honest, dedicated and loyal, warm, affectionate, caring. but there's no way in hell i'll ever willingly put myself in the "subordinate" position just because i have a vagina. either we're partners and equals, or we're nothing. that's it, end of story. i have no intention of spending my life with someone who "loves me" because i'm "pretty and feminine" and is blind to my faults. how anyone can find that kind of delusion appealing is just beyond me.
the whole concept of femininity is such bullshit anyway. put a bunch of men and women in the woods for a year and tell me how feminine any of them are. sex is anatomy, and gender is a social construction. i have too many goals for my future to worry about getting dinner on the table by six. if you're hungry, then cook something for yourself, you're a big boy.
the end.
the whole concept of femininity is such bullshit anyway. put a bunch of men and women in the woods for a year and tell me how feminine any of them are. sex is anatomy, and gender is a social construction. i have too many goals for my future to worry about getting dinner on the table by six. if you're hungry, then cook something for yourself, you're a big boy.
the end.
i'm sure enfant will be checking his closet for me before he goes to sleep tonight. just to forewarn you, you might want to take some precautions. i bite.
Posted by missmorals
That was good honest analysis of your thoughts Enfant. I think the Leo man is a traditionalist at heart. Dinner cooked at 6pm on the table, lady to be a lady i.e. all dolled up, respects him in public,hangs on his every work blah blah....well duh!..that's what most men want but some accept that fact that IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN..lol...
Well if we turn the tables, isn't that what you want in a man too? Isn't that what we're all looking for? Someone who takes intrest in your work, respects you in public, doesen't talk about you behind your back .. I think we are making this into man-issue, when in fact it's not. I would never ask anything from you that you wouldn't get in return from me. That's my motto. I never shoot of my mouth in public, especially not about private matters, but say that to a woman when in a relationship and she's instantly gonna take it as if I'm trying to shut her up BECAUSE SHE'S A WOMAN. She has to learn her spot. No, that's not what's going on. I'm only demanding from you what I expect you would demand from me.
The we have the whole "submissive women" issue. Now after being serious there for a while, this is kind of stupid to even talk about. I'm not even sure what we mean when we say submissive. it's not like I want her in the corner with a dog collar. Point is we all have natural preferances when choosing a partner. My preferences are cute, feminine girls - in other words, a feminists worst nightmare. Because in my experience with "powerful" women, they are constantly looking for validation for being women, socially speaking, and they do it in the worst way possible. If I wanted to measure my dick with someone I would seek out male friends. As it turns out, I'd rather perfer sitting by the ocean with a "cute and feminine" girl and talking about things that matter more than winning some stupid argument.
(continues)
I also think you are making this out to be a Leo thing, when in fact it's as much of a Scorpio thing. My ex and I would also have heated discussions and push eachother too far, she was a Scorpio too as you probably know by now, and none of us would back down. So what does that say? It basically says that Leos and Scorpios have this bad habit of falling into heated discussions. Basically what you're indicating is it would be more politically correct if the man in this relationship backs down BECAUSE HE'S A MAN and on top of it, HE'S A LEO. But hey, you're a Scorpio. Isn't the "heated discussion and nobody backing down" -thing as much your fault as it is his? If you want someone who responds in a different manner, let's say more "cooperative", maybe you should look for someone who's more submissive. There we have it, that scary and perverted word again. Because obviousely Leos and Scorpios seem to have the same pride issue, "I'm right and you're wrong".
Sometimes my ex would get mad at me if I proved her to be wrong. And believe me, I'm sensitive about these things. I don't rub it in her face every time I win an argument, and there would be times when I would simply just let it go and she would never know I won. That was her favourite word, "win". It's always about who "wins". So don't come telling me that you as a woman are looking for an equal, you're looking for the same thing in men as men are looking in women. Someone who understands them and doesen't talk back just for the sake of talking back. But of course, I as a man should feel guilty about my preferances because I don't want to have stupid arguments all the time. I want an equal too, sure, but also someone who's quite the opposite of me. If I wanted every day of my life to be a debate over nonsense things, I'd stand in front of a mirror till it breaks. My point is if I ask you to have my dinner ready at six, obviousely I expect that you want that favour to be returned. I don't take things for granted.
/Love to ya 😉
Sometimes my ex would get mad at me if I proved her to be wrong. And believe me, I'm sensitive about these things. I don't rub it in her face every time I win an argument, and there would be times when I would simply just let it go and she would never know I won. That was her favourite word, "win". It's always about who "wins". So don't come telling me that you as a woman are looking for an equal, you're looking for the same thing in men as men are looking in women. Someone who understands them and doesen't talk back just for the sake of talking back. But of course, I as a man should feel guilty about my preferances because I don't want to have stupid arguments all the time. I want an equal too, sure, but also someone who's quite the opposite of me. If I wanted every day of my life to be a debate over nonsense things, I'd stand in front of a mirror till it breaks. My point is if I ask you to have my dinner ready at six, obviousely I expect that you want that favour to be returned. I don't take things for granted.
/Love to ya 😉
Posted by wheelhomies
when it comes to relationships, in many ways i'm what one would call a "good woman": honest, dedicated and loyal, warm, affectionate, caring. but there's no way in hell i'll ever willingly put myself in the "subordinate" position just because i have a vagina..
So what are we arguing about? Did I ever indicate that being "pretty and feminine" means you have to be my doormat? You say you're honest, dedicated and loyal, warm, affectionate and caring. With that resum? you could apply for a relationship with me anytime.
Posted by wheelhomies
the whole concept of femininity is such bullbutter anyway. put a bunch of men and women in the woods for a year and tell me how feminine any of them are. sex is anatomy, and gender is a social construction. i have too many goals for my future to worry about getting dinner on the table by six. if you're hungry, then cook something for yourself, you're a big boy..click to expand
I don't agree, and I really can't go into it because I could write a whole book on the topic. The only thing that is a social construction is the fact that your paycheck is not equal to mine. Rest is biology. I see it every day. Women who are with men who see them as their equals, and these women hate every second of that. Deep down she resents him. But she tries to convince herself that that's the way she want's it, because that's the way it should be. Sociologically. But truth of the matter is that what she really wants is a man who makes her feel like a woman ... in the most traditional sense. I'm sorry to say this (and once again, I'm strongly for women's rights in sociological terms) but our quest for equality even in biological terms is on the verge of whiping out our inner selves. What remians is a bunch of sexless creature looking for something, but not sure of what that something is.
Wow! I am dealing with this problem in a big way at the moment. As an aries, I have found that I am very attracted to the general personality traits of leo more than any other sign. The three people I'm closest to in the world are all leo monkeys. All born within the same week, two born on the same day, one of them being my boyfriend.
Having been with this cat for almost a year off and on, and currently having had a tiff of medium size, I can say that the triggers are control and him always wanting to be the teacher and never the student. There is a definite jealousy factor too as my life does not have the challenges his does. I have a lot more freedom. I think that he would like to have met me when he was on top of the world and on top of his game. The irony is, he is attracted to powerful women, and so he loves me for my accomplishments too.
The irony for me, is that I love the control thing on a romantic/sexy level, but when it comes to other aspects, I find his methods to be archaic. Almost draconian. I think he sometimes mistakes me for a schoolgirl who needs reprimanding. I'm a full grown woman who is ready to express myself.
Our methods butt heads. My winning combo for getting things done is different than his, and requires aggressiveness. My impatience too is not a great factor when it comes to either of us having pressure on us. I get over things quickly. He sulks. Very difficult. I've always wanted to be the kind of person who can just let things slide off my back, but alas, I'm not there yet.
There are a lot of factors here that are definitely depending on the individual. I was raised with a lot of love, and he was raised harshly, so our life skills and ways of coping also are different. We love to do the same things, and are attracted to the same life style . If money and time weren't such a huge factor and pressure for him, I don't think we'd ever argue, but they really lay him flat. That's what got us this time, and it all came to a head, and now I'm getting the silent treatment. Aries no like that.
And yet, the places we do mesh, are off the charts. . Also, although I am an aries, I am an intensely feminine, nurturing, compassionate, yet naughty type, with a typical child's heart, which he (usually) finds irristable. I have learned a lot fom the boundaries that he has installed through wisdom. Not so much from the ones enforced by anxiety.
Having been with this cat for almost a year off and on, and currently having had a tiff of medium size, I can say that the triggers are control and him always wanting to be the teacher and never the student. There is a definite jealousy factor too as my life does not have the challenges his does. I have a lot more freedom. I think that he would like to have met me when he was on top of the world and on top of his game. The irony is, he is attracted to powerful women, and so he loves me for my accomplishments too.
The irony for me, is that I love the control thing on a romantic/sexy level, but when it comes to other aspects, I find his methods to be archaic. Almost draconian. I think he sometimes mistakes me for a schoolgirl who needs reprimanding. I'm a full grown woman who is ready to express myself.
Our methods butt heads. My winning combo for getting things done is different than his, and requires aggressiveness. My impatience too is not a great factor when it comes to either of us having pressure on us. I get over things quickly. He sulks. Very difficult. I've always wanted to be the kind of person who can just let things slide off my back, but alas, I'm not there yet.
There are a lot of factors here that are definitely depending on the individual. I was raised with a lot of love, and he was raised harshly, so our life skills and ways of coping also are different. We love to do the same things, and are attracted to the same life style . If money and time weren't such a huge factor and pressure for him, I don't think we'd ever argue, but they really lay him flat. That's what got us this time, and it all came to a head, and now I'm getting the silent treatment. Aries no like that.
And yet, the places we do mesh, are off the charts. . Also, although I am an aries, I am an intensely feminine, nurturing, compassionate, yet naughty type, with a typical child's heart, which he (usually) finds irristable. I have learned a lot fom the boundaries that he has installed through wisdom. Not so much from the ones enforced by anxiety.
Posted by Ms.Pisces
Enfant always articulates my innermost thoughts on these topics so well.
Really? I thought you would hate me with your whole being ... you being the romantic Pisces and all. And here comes Enfant with his bleak, highly mysogynist world view 😉
Enfant has a very good chart...it's a balanced one thats why his views are always balanced.
I can't argue with what you've said about the SCorpio/Leo couple. You are right, sometimes it is about "winning" but unfortunately both signs like to be at the top...Leo is NOT always right as much as they would believe they are..and neither is Scorpio...if during an argument you say something and I see you have a fair point, regardless of where I am in that argument with you, I will openly say to you "fair point"..at that time my anger will diminish...but then don't poke me about it cos I will hit you with an iron rod without thinking twice about it..If I have acknowledged your "fair point", then acknowledge the fact that it has been acknowledged..lol..
It makes for one hell of a steamy relationship I can tell you..
I do not want to compete with my man..I want him to be the protector, I want to look up to him and admire him. Learn from him what I don't already know..I want cuddles, kisses and all things feminine but he has to realise I have a mind of my own, thoughts of my own, opinions of my own..as long as he can respect that instead of controlling it in his favour, then we are on even keel....
Once I remember I got a job that was paying more than him. When I told him, he jokingly said "now you have to support me"...but I know deep down that hurt him...he pushed it aside and congratulated me and gave me a hug, we went out for a meal...but a few days later when it really sunk in..he was quite down about it...the reason he was down about it was because he thought he had lost some control, that I would go off with someone who earns better...this cut me up slightly. I really felt for him at that point. Regardless of what anyone might say and I know the feminist might come here and attack me...but I really have no problems with the roles society or indeed religion has created for us..If the man needs to be the breadwinner, I really have no issue with this. Just as long as I am not seen as the inferior partner because I earn less. I can see how it would hurt their pride...and especially the Leo pride.
My ex leo did say that I was the most easy going and laid back person he's ever had a relationship with as long as he didn't do anything to annoy me...
I can't argue with what you've said about the SCorpio/Leo couple. You are right, sometimes it is about "winning" but unfortunately both signs like to be at the top...Leo is NOT always right as much as they would believe they are..and neither is Scorpio...if during an argument you say something and I see you have a fair point, regardless of where I am in that argument with you, I will openly say to you "fair point"..at that time my anger will diminish...but then don't poke me about it cos I will hit you with an iron rod without thinking twice about it..If I have acknowledged your "fair point", then acknowledge the fact that it has been acknowledged..lol..
It makes for one hell of a steamy relationship I can tell you..
I do not want to compete with my man..I want him to be the protector, I want to look up to him and admire him. Learn from him what I don't already know..I want cuddles, kisses and all things feminine but he has to realise I have a mind of my own, thoughts of my own, opinions of my own..as long as he can respect that instead of controlling it in his favour, then we are on even keel....
Once I remember I got a job that was paying more than him. When I told him, he jokingly said "now you have to support me"...but I know deep down that hurt him...he pushed it aside and congratulated me and gave me a hug, we went out for a meal...but a few days later when it really sunk in..he was quite down about it...the reason he was down about it was because he thought he had lost some control, that I would go off with someone who earns better...this cut me up slightly. I really felt for him at that point. Regardless of what anyone might say and I know the feminist might come here and attack me...but I really have no problems with the roles society or indeed religion has created for us..If the man needs to be the breadwinner, I really have no issue with this. Just as long as I am not seen as the inferior partner because I earn less. I can see how it would hurt their pride...and especially the Leo pride.
My ex leo did say that I was the most easy going and laid back person he's ever had a relationship with as long as he didn't do anything to annoy me...
Posted by isadora2008
The irony for me, is that I love the control thing on a romantic/sexy level, but when it comes to other aspects, I find his methods to be archaic.
Posted by missmorals
I do not want to compete with my man..I want him to be the protectorclick to expand
This is actually what I was talking about back there when I said that our quest for social equality results in a major clash with our biological characteristics. You want to be controlled by a man, but that doesen't quite fit the plans you had f?r today nor the image of the modern woman. You also want a protector, but what kind of a protector is he if you're on the same level? Women have evolved sociologically while men remain on the same level as always. So if women are equal to men, in theory, what exactly makes a man?
I think Sex and the City is a perfect example of what I call "sexes on the road, looking for something but not quite sure of what that is". Well, what we are looking for is the ideal man and the ideal woman, in the most traditional sense. At least in theory, in real life that would never work because that would be taking a step back. To me it's pretty obvious that the roles we are given in the modern society are a social construction. And it is so obvious that it's not the natural order of things. Mother nature has always been cruel and never particulary fair to women, and that is a fact we're trying to change with these social constructions. The social slides we are experiencing, men and women not quite being able to relate to eachother, are side-effects of the whole game.
Ultimately I think we would be the happiest with a partner who's quite the opposite. If you feel like picking every subject to death, choose a partner who isn't very intrested in heated discussions. I'm not talking about a zombie, but pick someone who's more cool and aloof.
(continued)
ting to know a girl, and we both have a lot to say on the same topics, we're talking through the night and everything feels great, like she's your soul-mate... But truth is I'm not looking for a soul-mate. I've been there too many times. If we're both passionate and have a lot in common, regardless if we agree or disagree on the subjects we pick through, it basically means soon enough our relationship will become as platonic as a two-man debate team. It won't last in any other way than friendship. Passion is my game, I need someone cool. I don't want an equal, I want an opposite. Everything from sex and gender to personality. Unfortunately others don't agree. When women are looking for that someone, they're always looking for a "soul-mate", someone who's very alike them with same intrests and all that. But to me it kills the passion.
Posted by Ms.Pisces
lol :O I don't think you're misogynistic at all! I think you're refreshingly progressive and open-minded, when it comes to these issues. I understand how others can miscontrue your words, but I'm pretty sure I understand what you're saying most of the time.
Good thing some people don't have the necessity to take everything litteraly. I believe in getting my point through not by being clear and concise, but by being figurative. That way you can make up your own mind, but also be inspired to come up with new angles, rather than having me push my words down your throat. I find litteral interpretations very hard to swallow. Downside is that people don't always understand where you coming from or where you headed. So now y'all know my game, for future reference.
Posted by missmorals
Enfant has a very good chart...it's a balanced one thats why his views are always balanced.click to expand
Don't feed my ego, damn you. I'm a Leo. You must keep me on a short leash. 😉 Anyway, I learned something new today. Appearently my chart is balanced.
Posted by wheelhomies
and why on earth would i want to apply for a relationship with someone who will be forced to part as friends when he sees that i'm a strong person? i don't do the "play dumb (although sometimes i really am), bat my eyelashes" thing anymore. that isn't me, that is a false construction. anyone who believes that to be a "real woman" is kidding themselves.
It ain't any more of a false construiction than men and women being socially equal. That's also a social construction, only it's considered a positive one.
Posted by wheelhomies
and yes, femininity is a social construction: makeup, push-up bras, breast implants, teeny tiny waist...these are not natural. ideal images of feminine beauty - the ones women are compelled by society to strive for - are 100% constructed.click to expand
You really think that my definition of feminity is "playing dumb", "make-up, push-up bras, breast implants, teeny tiny waist?" When did I ever indicate that?
again! oh well, i don't want to hide a second time...
as for "wanting a man who makes me feel like a woman" - no, thank you. i know that is your opinion based on your experiences, but i can say based on my own experience that i have never been more attracted to a man than one who shows me who he is as a person, and not just as a man. vulnerability, insecurity, pain - these are universal and these are real. i don't resent a man for respecting me, in fact that is the only way the respect will be returned.
i am not attacking you enfant, and i have no personal issue with you. but some of the things you said, i frankly found to be disturbing. and yes, i have taken a feminist standpoint on it, but i am just as bothered when women say things such as "a REAL man does...." and such. i disagree with your views and am for equality, and to me that means to stop imposing gender roles on people who have no desire to fill them. i'm not saying you're doing this, as i have seen many of your progressive viewpoints in regard to women's sexuality, but to say that gender is biologically based to me just has no factual basis. that assertion has almost universally been disproved in empirical studies, and it has repeatedly been found that men and women are more similar than different. but people continue to reject that, and women continue to behave in ways that puts them at a disadvantage socially, politically, and in the workplace. yes, it bothers me.
as for "wanting a man who makes me feel like a woman" - no, thank you. i know that is your opinion based on your experiences, but i can say based on my own experience that i have never been more attracted to a man than one who shows me who he is as a person, and not just as a man. vulnerability, insecurity, pain - these are universal and these are real. i don't resent a man for respecting me, in fact that is the only way the respect will be returned.
i am not attacking you enfant, and i have no personal issue with you. but some of the things you said, i frankly found to be disturbing. and yes, i have taken a feminist standpoint on it, but i am just as bothered when women say things such as "a REAL man does...." and such. i disagree with your views and am for equality, and to me that means to stop imposing gender roles on people who have no desire to fill them. i'm not saying you're doing this, as i have seen many of your progressive viewpoints in regard to women's sexuality, but to say that gender is biologically based to me just has no factual basis. that assertion has almost universally been disproved in empirical studies, and it has repeatedly been found that men and women are more similar than different. but people continue to reject that, and women continue to behave in ways that puts them at a disadvantage socially, politically, and in the workplace. yes, it bothers me.
Posted by isadora2008
The irony for me, is that I love the control thing on a romantic/sexy level, but when it comes to other aspects, I find his methods to be archaic. Almost draconian. I think he sometimes mistakes me for a schoolgirl who needs reprimanding. I'm a full grown woman who is ready to express myself.
i'm actually quite similar. i don't mind when a man takes control sexually. in fact, i do like playing the submissive part. but sometimes i am quite aggressive too. that behavior is reserved for the sheets, though. when it comes to living my life, i want a partner - not a father or a boss.
Posted by enfant_terrible
It ain't any more of a false construiction than men and women being socially equal. That's also a social construction, only it's considered a positive one.
You really think that my definition of feminity is "playing dumb", "make-up, push-up bras, breast implants, teeny tiny waist?" When did I ever indicate that?
you never indicated that was your personal definition, but that wasn't my point. my point is that the present ideal of femininity that many men consider attractive - whether you do or not - is a construction, and is not natural or biologically based.
Posted by wheelhomies
but to say that gender is biologically based to me just has no factual basis. that assertion has almost universally been disproved in empirical studies, and it has repeatedly been found that men and women are more similar than different..
I really can't go into much detail here since it's useless if I don't have sources to back up what I'm saying, but basically it's based on a life-long intrest in these issues. As you said, men and women are very much similiar, but that's only for a short period of time. Yet we are different in some ways that make a crucial difference between the sexes. I'm gonna take some examples I experienced from life instead. I find these to be more accurate than anything you can read in a book.
First of all, women have a biological clock. This basically means that the social construction of equality only lasts for a short period of time in a woman's life. Eventually what it comes down to is that you really want to "nest a family". You can combine that with your work, sure, but I find it that most women lose intrest in work unless they're really on fire about something. Usually what they're on fire about is family life, and not the cold walls of an office. I've been with women who were in their early 20s and already thinking about having kids and all that. Like they're seriousely thinking I was there so we can get to know eachother and start a family already.
Men on the other hand, could spend a life-time on their working place only to call home to see that there isn't another man on his turf. He loves his family, but feels the most important thing is not being with them in person, but providing for them nad making them feel secure. I don't think it's a social construction, it's been like this long before our organized society. You really think men are men and women are women in terms of gender because men want it that way? If it was meant to be any other way, that bottle would have popped a long time ago. We are equally responsible to why things are the way they are and always have beem. Or rather, our biology is responsible. We are just puppets. Not saying it should be any other way than it is today, just putting it out there without any pardon.
But sexually men and women are pretty much alike. I hate it when I watch these stupid American sit-coms and the men there are always begging their wives for sex...as if she doesen't have a sexuality of her own, as if she hates sex so much that he has to ask for it. As if sex is not a female matter. In real life he would be semi-impotent and she would practically be raping him. However, the difference once again lies in the nesting feature. Women usually don't want sex unless the man she's having sex with can provide some sort of security, like a relationship, even if it's a short one. I have yet to meet a woman who has the same harsh mentality about sex as men do. Never met a woman who could say she's only after a quick fix to satisfy her most primitive needs. No, with women there's always some kind of romance in the air. And I like that. That's by my definition feminity, social construction or not.
An important point: there are always exceptions, some bigger than others, but overall I'm talking about majorities and not every man and woman there ever was.
An important point: there are always exceptions, some bigger than others, but overall I'm talking about majorities and not every man and woman there ever was.
argh typos!
lol, i'm not going to attack you missmorals. i was never attacking anyone, but rather the ideologies...
i think that our perspectives are more similar than different. the main difference is that i don't want a protector; i don't need one. if i am with a man, it's because i want to be, and not because i have to. that's the reality, so i don't get caught up in fantasies of the princess and the knight. that's a concept i think needs to be burned to the ground. (imo, it sets up unrealistic expectations that lead to disappointment).
additionally, religion doesn't hold any sway for me. i think it is something that people alter to suit their own ideas and ways of life anyway, so instead of doing that i just don't bother with religion at all.
but, you and i both want equality in a relationship in the sense that you don't want to be seen as inferior either. so i think that makes you a bit of a feminist too, even if you don't like the label. (i don't like really like the term, because i am for equality in general, and not just this one area).
btw, i really do apologize for sidetracking your topic. i know that it took a totally different direction that what you intended. i had to speak my mind though. 😛
Posted by missmorals
I do not want to compete with my man..I want him to be the protector, I want to look up to him and admire him. Learn from him what I don't already know..I want cuddles, kisses and all things feminine but he has to realise I have a mind of my own, thoughts of my own, opinions of my own..as long as he can respect that instead of controlling it in his favour, then we are on even keel....
Regardless of what anyone might say and I know the feminist might come here and attack me...but I really have no problems with the roles society or indeed religion has created for us..If the man needs to be the breadwinner, I really have no issue with this. Just as long as I am not seen as the inferior partner because I earn less.
lol, i'm not going to attack you missmorals. i was never attacking anyone, but rather the ideologies...
i think that our perspectives are more similar than different. the main difference is that i don't want a protector; i don't need one. if i am with a man, it's because i want to be, and not because i have to. that's the reality, so i don't get caught up in fantasies of the princess and the knight. that's a concept i think needs to be burned to the ground. (imo, it sets up unrealistic expectations that lead to disappointment).
additionally, religion doesn't hold any sway for me. i think it is something that people alter to suit their own ideas and ways of life anyway, so instead of doing that i just don't bother with religion at all.
but, you and i both want equality in a relationship in the sense that you don't want to be seen as inferior either. so i think that makes you a bit of a feminist too, even if you don't like the label. (i don't like really like the term, because i am for equality in general, and not just this one area).
btw, i really do apologize for sidetracking your topic. i know that it took a totally different direction that what you intended. i had to speak my mind though. 😛
Also our preferences and definition of what's feminine and what's masculine are based on preferences that all mammals have. These are things that were developed long before we even were fully evolved to human beings. If you take the animal kingdom, there are patterns in terms of behaviour that makes women attract men and vice versa. So there is a given masculinity and feminity in our social code, only once put in a civilized society, it becomes something along the lines of push-up bras and leg-shaving. Now that's a different discusssion altogether.
And please don't say "but we're not animals", yes we are. We're not Gods, that's for sure.
And please don't say "but we're not animals", yes we are. We're not Gods, that's for sure.
Posted by enfant_terrible
Also our preferences and definition of what's feminine and what's masculine are based on preferences that all mammals have. These are things that were developed long before we even were fully evolved to human beings. If you take the animal kingdom, there are patterns in terms of behaviour that makes women attract men and vice versa. So there is a given masculinity and feminity in our social code, only once put in a civilized society, it becomes something along the lines of push-up bras and leg-shaving. Now that's a different discusssion altogether.
And please don't say "but we're not animals", yes we are. We're not Gods, that's for sure.
i'd have to disagree with that. paleoanthropologists have found strong evidence that the social organization of early humans was very different from what it is today. the family unit of mother (as caretaker), father (as provider), and child is a fairly recent development in terms of evolutionary history.
i wouldn't say that we're not animals, because we are. but we're also different from other mammals for a number of reasons. one of those is our brain. so, i may want to hunt down and strangle someone who cuts me off when i'm driving. but i'm not going to do that, because even if my instinct tells me to, that doesn't make it the right thing to do.
also other animals don't say to themselves "i like that because it's feminine" or "omg he is sooo masculine!" there is no feminine or masculine to them. they just hump what they need to hump to make babies. 😛
It seems we'll have to agree to disagree...more or less. There are many intresting aspects, and my experience tells me that one shouldn't believe in everything one hears just because it sounds politically correct. But one thing we both agree on is that regardless of biology and ideology, everybody are entitled to search for happiness on their own terms.
But I've been contaminating MissMorals thread long enough now.
But I've been contaminating MissMorals thread long enough now.
The colours of a live debate in my school dulls out compare to reading this thread. I think it really is an individual perspective and preference. There's no 1 flat fact about what femininity/masculinity is suppose to be. Debates on gender issues has been going on and will go on for a long time to come.
Hey Wheelies...you are an ubercool leo chick so you go take my topic any which way you want...I am a screaming banshee at times, feminist most of the time, need a protector one minute..protector in the sense that I want to sit on my thrown and have people feed me grapes and my mans big arms around me saying "yeah baby, I got your back"..I don't want him fighting my battles for me..more than likely he'd be a total wuss anyway!...reality is theres no way I would ever be dependent on anyone..financially or emotionally....I have moments...I am a humanitarian at heart...In the eyes of God men and women are equal...I am not bible basher or Mullah Omer!..lol..but I do adhere to the belief that there is a higher being looking out for us...
And on that lovely note endeth my debate..
The conclusion is..............................
I STILL LOVE LEO MEN!!!!
And on that lovely note endeth my debate..
The conclusion is..............................
I STILL LOVE LEO MEN!!!!
Thrown = throne.....duh moment..
Thanks love 🙂 keep praying for me won't you now?!
And I hope you find what you are looking for as well...what is your favourite of the zodiac?
And I hope you find what you are looking for as well...what is your favourite of the zodiac?
Posted by Versuvius
The colours of a live debate in my school dulls out compare to reading this thread.
hahaha - don't let that give you the wrong impression of dxp. it's really not that interesting.
best of luck with those insufferable leos, missmorals. 😉
Sometimes I think MissMorals is a masochist...but even a masochist can only take that much pain!
Posted by XoKissesXo
Lol ok I will!! 😄
I don't even know!! I keep attracting fire or air signs and it doesn't work out!! My rising is Leo maybe that's why?? I would say Scorpios I think they r so intriguing but I've never dated one!!! Not sure yet missmorals, I don't have one that I am sure about yet like u are with Leos, but I do wanna date a Scorpio man one day b/c I love them!! Leos are good people deep down though and very generous...how come u don't like cancer guys..too sensitive? The ones I know are very clingy it was a huge red flag for me. I CaN't StAnD clinginess!
Yes your rising might have a lot to do with it..but you are a cancer so you need the emotional bond too..which air signs can't really provide..hence the reason I cannot stand gemini, libra men..yuck!..Aquarius are ok I suppose..some of them..
A scorpio will be a good match for you I reckon...I am sure you have that firey side to you as well with your leo rising!..but then again that is just a mask for what's really underneath..lol..we like firey people..lol..Scorpio and cancer are a good match as long as you hold your own with him..don't let him get away with things too often..or you'll be controlled..my sister is a cancer and her hubby is a Scorpio..
Have you ever tried a Pisces? lol..like it's on the menu or something..
I really don't like cancer men. Find them to be complete head fucks..excuse my language..the ones I've met are either like a wet fish...or they are too scared to get involved cos they can't let go of the apron strings. I don't like the games they play...I am not a gamesy person..lol..black & white..To be honest, I haven't the patience for them.
Enfant, I have a very high pain threshold lol
you're silly. how'd you stumble across this thread, anyway? i bet you searched for "vagina". 😉
ohhhh i know more than you think shyaries. 🙂
Actually mm I see those pairings a LOT. With myself, family, and friends.
1.5
fire needs air..as that said a leo needs a gemini =)
Leo men want submissive women. But women are hardly submissive lol. They go for the not so loud and adventurous ones. That way..they get to be the fun in the relationship..and the girl gets to be the work.
Virgo woman dating a leo man. My leo dated a taurean before me. and several virgos before her. All his best friends are virgos too.
Virgo woman dating a leo man. My leo dated a taurean before me. and several virgos before her. All his best friends are virgos too.
Posted by ThisAndThat
fire needs air..as that said a leo needs a gemini =)
Yep! They sure love us Gemini's!
I'll tell you what i want as a Leo man. I want a woman to be just like me. Everything rolled into one. Submissive one minute, fiery the next. This is where the steam comes from. This is where the fun is. If she is fiery all the time no thanks, if she is submissive all the time no thanks. You want something tell me and i'll get it. you're unhappy with something tell me and i'll fix it. when i want something i'll tell you and when i'm unhappy you will know it. I don't like mind games or women that intentionally try to make me jealous - and they do not like what happens when i do get jealous and they soon learn not to press that button with a leo man. I dislike women that tell people what i am like at home, in the bedroom or when we're alone because i reserve the finest parts of me for that special someone. It is not to win approval ratings or make other people jealous. When i love i will smile at arguments because they are OUR arguments, just don't ever disrespect my friends and family. They have all bled for me as we grew up and will do for my partner by default if i am no longer able to. I do not take a woman on lightly for this reason. I am flaky in the beginning because of the consistency i will give once the vehicle is rolling. There are no half measures, as soon as i realise a potential partner cannot give me what i want and need i will seek new pastures and cut all ties to the old ones. This may seem harsh to the person i've just left but its simply to keep the slate clean and loyalty intact for the next person. I am after all ruled by my heart.
I'm thinking having strength, a strong personality, can be aggressive, is all great and they want that but just not a masculine woman. Some women don't know how to be/do all of that without coming off competitive,masculine, or aggressive which I think is a turn off regardless of gender.
What happened to the Scorpio? He was supposed to marry you and be so good for you because you were a challenge? Why not try being a challenge to the Leo? Leos are fire so I can imagine that would keep them interested and intrigued. They also like very feminine women very classy, lady like, with a bit of challenge not afraid to speak her mind and be direct all while still being a lady at the same time.
What happened to the Scorpio? He was supposed to marry you and be so good for you because you were a challenge? Why not try being a challenge to the Leo? Leos are fire so I can imagine that would keep them interested and intrigued. They also like very feminine women very classy, lady like, with a bit of challenge not afraid to speak her mind and be direct all while still being a lady at the same time.
Posted by XinPosted by ThisAndThat
fire needs air..as that said a leo needs a gemini =)
Yep! They sure love us Gemini's!click to expand
This is why i don't date gemini's for a start.
Posted by missmorals
Now time and time again, I read that Leo men want a strong woman with strong ideals, personality, ambitious, firey etc etc..reality dictates otherwise. I see a lot of Leo men with women of the water signs.
If you look at the pairings, you will see a lot of Leo men with cancer women or at times Leo men with Pisces women...now you don't see many of the following couples although astrology matches these up as the "perfect matches"
Leo man/Sag woman
Leo man/Aries Woman
What is up with that?
Most of the time, my leo relationships start well but then when they realise they won't be able to commpete with me in terms of strength of character and won't be able to control me, they disappear...that's really annoying!!...I want them to try it out...My ex leo did and we stayed together 7 years...would've been married had it not been for me. He bought the ring and everything.
He was born on 24th July..so he had cancer moon and also venus in Cancer I think...actually I had his chart somewhere..but he seemed to be the perfect blend of leo...
What are your views?
How many leo men in here with women of a fire sign?
How many with women of the water signs.
What characteristics do you like from the fire and water. I am trying to work it all out.
I want a leo man godamn it...
I will actually cry if I end up with a water sign....if it is destined then I at least want them to have a lot of fire or earth in their charts...
Alternatively, how many scorpio women with Leo men in here.....pray do tell.
All the ones I am meeting lately, can handle the whole dominating side of me.
So what say you leo boys...do you actually just want someone submissive?
Obviously, you're not talking about scorpio. If you think scorpios are like that, you don't have an idea about astrology or zodiac.
So; you're describing yourself like strong...no one can compete against you...blah,blah...
I still haven't read a pisces' post, cancer' post or scorpio's post where they complain, the way you complain, with these pathetic appreciations which show a little bit of jelousy and bitternes. You should know that a woman with strong ideas and personality doesn't talk like you do.
Posted by missmorals
Now time and time again, I read that Leo men want a strong woman with strong ideals, personality, ambitious, firey etc etc..reality dictates otherwise. I see a lot of Leo men with women of the water signs.
If you look at the pairings, you will see a lot of Leo men with cancer women or at times Leo men with Pisces women...now you don't see many of the following couples although astrology matches these up as the "perfect matches"
Leo man/Sag woman
Leo man/Aries Woman
What is up with that?
I think fire and fire is not good-- not for me, anyway.
Fire and water-- definitely more interesting.
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What is up with that?
Most of the time, my leo relationships start well but then when they realise they won't be able to commpete with me in terms of strength of character and won't be able to control me, they disappear...that's really annoying!!...I want them to try it out...My ex leo did and we stayed together 7 years...would've been married had it not been for me. He bought the ring and everything.
He was born on 24th July..so he had cancer moon and also venus in Cancer I think...actually I had his chart somewhere..but he seemed to be the perfect blend of leo...
What are your views?
How many leo men in here with women of a fire sign?
How many with women of the water signs.
What characteristics do you like from the fire and water. I am trying to work it all out.
I want a leo man godamn it...
I will actually cry if I end up with a water sign....if it is destined then I at least want them to have a lot of fire or earth in their charts...
Alternatively, how many scorpio women with Leo men in here.....pray do tell.
All the ones I am meeting lately, can handle the whole dominating side of me.
So what say you leo boys...do you actually just want someone submissive?