People from history accused of sex motivated mass murder - true or false

We started the conversation already in another topic with @Ram416 and @Erzsebet_Bathory, about Erzsebet Bathory and Gilles de Rais

so, what is your opinion on noble people from history accused in these crimes? Just political angle? Were they sick? Or falsely accused?

Edit: its a pity we dont have reliable birth dates, to make their charts 🙂

Posted by LethalFantasia

I mean, there are women who literally hide their pregnancies, deliver the baby in some dirty toilet in some gas station and then dispose of their child in a garbage bag....

So nothing surprises me about human-beings, male, female, mother, whatever.

But to answer the question, I haven't heard about Gilles de Rais but I have heard about Erzsebet Bathory and a lot of what she was accused of doing is actually like ancient satanic ritual "things" or whatever, so it's not like people just randomly attributed her to these crazy crimes. There are different groups/types of satanists/satanism and in my opinion there does exist a group of them who do believe in sacrificial murders and gaining power and even an actual high from drinking a tortured human sacrificed victims blood.

lmfao! Oh my gosh, just look it up you guis. And like back in those times especially, people really believed in that kind of stuff, so whether you personally believe in it or not, like some people do and because of their belief in it, they will act out these rituals ~

I dont think they were all satanists or something, just maybe sadists who enjoyed the power over their powerless objects and were sexually frustrated?

Posted by LethalFantasia

I mean, there are women who literally hide their pregnancies, deliver the baby in some dirty toilet in some gas station and then dispose of their child in a garbage bag....

So nothing surprises me about human-beings, male, female, mother, whatever.

But to answer the question, I haven't heard about Gilles de Rais but I have heard about Erzsebet Bathory and a lot of what she was accused of doing is actually like ancient satanic ritual "things" or whatever, so it's not like people just randomly attributed her to these crazy crimes. There are different groups/types of satanists/satanism and in my opinion there does exist a group of them who do believe in sacrificial murders and gaining power and even an actual high from drinking a tortured human sacrificed victims blood.

lmfao! Oh my gosh, just look it up you guis. And like back in those times especially, people really believed in that kind of stuff, so whether you personally believe in it or not, like some people do and because of their belief in it, they will act out these rituals ~

Nothing random about it. There is a lot of speculation that it was politically motivated to have her removed. I mentioned in the other thread that European courts in those days were rife with corruption at all levels. Bathory was very influential in the political arena, by virtue of birthright and her personal experiences. So it makes sense some people would have wanted her removed AND her name smeared till the end of time.

So there are 2 scenarios here:

1) she actually did murder 600+ women to bathe in their blood

2) she smacked a maidservant with a hair brush, drawing blood, and the stories started from there, even though it may not have involved 600 virgins.

Posted by Ram416

Posted by LethalFantasia

I mean, there are women who literally hide their pregnancies, deliver the baby in some dirty toilet in some gas station and then dispose of their child in a garbage bag....

So nothing surprises me about human-beings, male, female, mother, whatever.

But to answer the question, I haven't heard about Gilles de Rais but I have heard about Erzsebet Bathory and a lot of what she was accused of doing is actually like ancient satanic ritual "things" or whatever, so it's not like people just randomly attributed her to these crazy crimes. There are different groups/types of satanists/satanism and in my opinion there does exist a group of them who do believe in sacrificial murders and gaining power and even an actual high from drinking a tortured human sacrificed victims blood.

lmfao! Oh my gosh, just look it up you guis. And like back in those times especially, people really believed in that kind of stuff, so whether you personally believe in it or not, like some people do and because of their belief in it, they will act out these rituals ~

Nothing random about it. There is a lot of speculation that it was politically motivated to have her removed. I mentioned in the other thread that European courts in those days were rife with corruption at all levels. Bathory was very influential in the political arena, by virtue of birthright and her personal experiences. So it makes sense some people would have wanted her removed AND her name smeared till the end of time.

So there are 2 scenarios here:

1) she actually did murder 600+ women to bathe in their blood

2) she smacked a maidservant with a hair brush, drawing blood, and the stories started from there, even though it may not have involved 600 virgins.

click to expand

nobody believes she murdered 600 women 🙂

its not the main thing in evaluating if she did the crimes or not

or if she didnt murder 600 women, just 50, its all right?

🙂

the 1) and 2) are extremes and the truth is I believe in the middle

is there anybody who didnt gain their information from a movie?

Posted by Pandora101

Posted by Ram416

Posted by LethalFantasia

I mean, there are women who literally hide their pregnancies, deliver the baby in some dirty toilet in some gas station and then dispose of their child in a garbage bag....

So nothing surprises me about human-beings, male, female, mother, whatever.

But to answer the question, I haven't heard about Gilles de Rais but I have heard about Erzsebet Bathory and a lot of what she was accused of doing is actually like ancient satanic ritual "things" or whatever, so it's not like people just randomly attributed her to these crazy crimes. There are different groups/types of satanists/satanism and in my opinion there does exist a group of them who do believe in sacrificial murders and gaining power and even an actual high from drinking a tortured human sacrificed victims blood.

lmfao! Oh my gosh, just look it up you guis. And like back in those times especially, people really believed in that kind of stuff, so whether you personally believe in it or not, like some people do and because of their belief in it, they will act out these rituals ~

Nothing random about it. There is a lot of speculation that it was politically motivated to have her removed. I mentioned in the other thread that European courts in those days were rife with corruption at all levels. Bathory was very influential in the political arena, by virtue of birthright and her personal experiences. So it makes sense some people would have wanted her removed AND her name smeared till the end of time.

So there are 2 scenarios here:

1) she actually did murder 600+ women to bathe in their blood

2) she smacked a maidservant with a hair brush, drawing blood, and the stories started from there, even though it may not have involved 600 virgins.

nobody believes she murdered 600 women 🙂

its not the main thing in evaluating if she did the crimes or not

or if she didnt murder 600 women, just 50, its all right?

🙂

the 1) and 2) are extremes and the truth is I believe in the middle

click to expand

(2) is actually more common than we'd actually like to believe. Even today people are still carrying out smear campaigns to destroy others either politically or socially.

Posted by Pandora101

is there anybody who didnt gain their information from a movie?

The problem with books, texts written about her, is that they were mostly written with bias. There were very, very few that mentioned political motivation.

I haven't seen the movie.

Posted by Ram416

Posted by Pandora101

Posted by Ram416

Posted by LethalFantasia

I mean, there are women who literally hide their pregnancies, deliver the baby in some dirty toilet in some gas station and then dispose of their child in a garbage bag....

So nothing surprises me about human-beings, male, female, mother, whatever.

But to answer the question, I haven't heard about Gilles de Rais but I have heard about Erzsebet Bathory and a lot of what she was accused of doing is actually like ancient satanic ritual "things" or whatever, so it's not like people just randomly attributed her to these crazy crimes. There are different groups/types of satanists/satanism and in my opinion there does exist a group of them who do believe in sacrificial murders and gaining power and even an actual high from drinking a tortured human sacrificed victims blood.

lmfao! Oh my gosh, just look it up you guis. And like back in those times especially, people really believed in that kind of stuff, so whether you personally believe in it or not, like some people do and because of their belief in it, they will act out these rituals ~

Nothing random about it. There is a lot of speculation that it was politically motivated to have her removed. I mentioned in the other thread that European courts in those days were rife with corruption at all levels. Bathory was very influential in the political arena, by virtue of birthright and her personal experiences. So it makes sense some people would have wanted her removed AND her name smeared till the end of time.

So there are 2 scenarios here:

1) she actually did murder 600+ women to bathe in their blood

2) she smacked a maidservant with a hair brush, drawing blood, and the stories started from there, even though it may not have involved 600 virgins.

nobody believes she murdered 600 women 🙂

its not the main thing in evaluating if she did the crimes or not

or if she didnt murder 600 women, just 50, its all right?

🙂

the 1) and 2) are extremes and the truth is I believe in the middle

(2) is actually more common than we'd actually like to believe. Even today people are still carrying out smear campaigns to destroy others either politically or socially.

click to expand

true, but still

just from history: Maria Antoniette was accused of sexually abusing her children..... like sometimes I dont understand where the motivation to accuse someone from these types of crimes comes from

but in case of EB and de Rais, I dont know what could be the motivation to use this type of accusation, who what I mean? they could be accused of number of things

Posted by Pandora101

Posted by Ram416

Posted by Pandora101

Posted by Ram416

Posted by LethalFantasia

I mean, there are women who literally hide their pregnancies, deliver the baby in some dirty toilet in some gas station and then dispose of their child in a garbage bag....

So nothing surprises me about human-beings, male, female, mother, whatever.

But to answer the question, I haven't heard about Gilles de Rais but I have heard about Erzsebet Bathory and a lot of what she was accused of doing is actually like ancient satanic ritual "things" or whatever, so it's not like people just randomly attributed her to these crazy crimes. There are different groups/types of satanists/satanism and in my opinion there does exist a group of them who do believe in sacrificial murders and gaining power and even an actual high from drinking a tortured human sacrificed victims blood.

lmfao! Oh my gosh, just look it up you guis. And like back in those times especially, people really believed in that kind of stuff, so whether you personally believe in it or not, like some people do and because of their belief in it, they will act out these rituals ~

Nothing random about it. There is a lot of speculation that it was politically motivated to have her removed. I mentioned in the other thread that European courts in those days were rife with corruption at all levels. Bathory was very influential in the political arena, by virtue of birthright and her personal experiences. So it makes sense some people would have wanted her removed AND her name smeared till the end of time.

So there are 2 scenarios here:

1) she actually did murder 600+ women to bathe in their blood

2) she smacked a maidservant with a hair brush, drawing blood, and the stories started from there, even though it may not have involved 600 virgins.

nobody believes she murdered 600 women 🙂

its not the main thing in evaluating if she did the crimes or not

or if she didnt murder 600 women, just 50, its all right?

🙂

the 1) and 2) are extremes and the truth is I believe in the middle

(2) is actually more common than we'd actually like to believe. Even today people are still carrying out smear campaigns to destroy others either politically or socially.

true, but still

just from history: Maria Antoniette was accused of sexually abusing her children..... like sometimes I dont understand where the motivation to accuse someone from these types of crimes comes from

but in case of EB and de Rais, I dont know what could be the motivation to use this type of accusation, who what I mean? they could be accused of number of things

click to expand

Sometimes all it takes is a disgruntled, unhappy employee or associate (other noblewomen/noblemen), could be jealousy.

Gilles de Rais fought alongside Joan of Arc to fight off the English. Despite that accomplishment, they were both executed by the French - Joan was accused of playing with the devil, and Gilles was accused of murdering young boys.

Posted by Ram416

Posted by Pandora101

is there anybody who didnt gain their information from a movie?

The problem with books, texts written about her, is that they were mostly written with bias. There were very, very few that mentioned political motivation.

I haven't seen the movie.

click to expand

there were several movies about her, all quite bad

but, I dont think the problem is with texts written about her, as a normal person read up pro and contra, everything, so the political motivation or her being sexually frustrated comes up in quite several of them... (I think just for Bathory, which I was obviosly exposed to, I didnt do an extensive reading on Gilles de Rais, as I cant read French.... but I think there are some articles and evidence what doesnt make into the English translations, and are "known" only for the people who actually can read the original language materials)

it would be good, if someone who is French would say something about Gilles

Posted by Ram416

Posted by Pandora101

Posted by Ram416

Posted by Pandora101

Posted by Ram416

Posted by LethalFantasia

I mean, there are women who literally hide their pregnancies, deliver the baby in some dirty toilet in some gas station and then dispose of their child in a garbage bag....

So nothing surprises me about human-beings, male, female, mother, whatever.

But to answer the question, I haven't heard about Gilles de Rais but I have heard about Erzsebet Bathory and a lot of what she was accused of doing is actually like ancient satanic ritual "things" or whatever, so it's not like people just randomly attributed her to these crazy crimes. There are different groups/types of satanists/satanism and in my opinion there does exist a group of them who do believe in sacrificial murders and gaining power and even an actual high from drinking a tortured human sacrificed victims blood.

lmfao! Oh my gosh, just look it up you guis. And like back in those times especially, people really believed in that kind of stuff, so whether you personally believe in it or not, like some people do and because of their belief in it, they will act out these rituals ~

Nothing random about it. There is a lot of speculation that it was politically motivated to have her removed. I mentioned in the other thread that European courts in those days were rife with corruption at all levels. Bathory was very influential in the political arena, by virtue of birthright and her personal experiences. So it makes sense some people would have wanted her removed AND her name smeared till the end of time.

So there are 2 scenarios here:

1) she actually did murder 600+ women to bathe in their blood

2) she smacked a maidservant with a hair brush, drawing blood, and the stories started from there, even though it may not have involved 600 virgins.

nobody believes she murdered 600 women 🙂

its not the main thing in evaluating if she did the crimes or not

or if she didnt murder 600 women, just 50, its all right?

🙂

the 1) and 2) are extremes and the truth is I believe in the middle

(2) is actually more common than we'd actually like to believe. Even today people are still carrying out smear campaigns to destroy others either politically or socially.

true, but still

just from history: Maria Antoniette was accused of sexually abusing her children..... like sometimes I dont understand where the motivation to accuse someone from these types of crimes comes from

but in case of EB and de Rais, I dont know what could be the motivation to use this type of accusation, who what I mean? they could be accused of number of things

Sometimes all it takes is a disgruntled, unhappy employee or associate (other noblewomen/noblemen), could be jealousy.

Gilles de Rais fought alongside Joan of Arc to fight off the English. Despite that accomplishment, they were both executed by the French - Joan was accused of playing with the devil, and Gilles was accused of murdering young boys.

click to expand

"Sometimes all it takes is a disgruntled, unhappy employee or associate (other noblewomen/noblemen), could be jealousy.

Gilles de Rais fought alongside Joan of Arc to fight off the English. Despite that accomplishment, they were both executed by the French - Joan was accused of playing with the devil, and Gilles was accused of murdering young boys."

yes, thats exactly what I mean - only the people of that country can grasp maybe, what was going on

I still think de Rais could be accused of something else, murdering young boys is a bit far-fetched, if there is no foundation, imho