Toxic Christianity & The Great Deception (Page 2)

last night, my adopted stray cat died

and i felt that there's no harm at all in praying

to whatever higher, unexplainable force might be out there

but i believe he'd reincarnate to a new life

so i let that thought comfort me instead

Posted by _Dazed

This fool acting like I don't remember his days riling up the jokers on the Scorpio board back in the day. Don't make me call Exo to check you, Don.

no need to involve me. don has been actively trying to give up astrology for a few years now. it's hard to forget this stuff after over a decade deep in it.

Astrology isn't "the devil". Why would there be 3 magi traversing the desert upon seeing certain stars and them knowing a king was born? Yes, astrology is of the earth, it's probably something we should all transcend beyond because it often serves to pigeonhole humanity and humans dont need to be labeled or misjudged, despite their efforts to interpret the stars. The concept of the occult isnt evil. Its how you use it that is. I daresay god has many faces or facets, in that sense.

Posted by _Dazed

This fool acting like I don't remember his days riling up the jokers on the Scorpio board back in the day. Don't make me call Exo to check you, Don.

I guess you could say that I'm 321 days sober.

Posted by Ixi

Posted by RollergirlOrc

Astrology isn't "the devil". Why would there be 3 magi traversing the desert upon seeing certain stars and them knowing a king was born? Yes, astrology is of the earth, it's probably something we should all transcend beyond because it often serves to pigeonhole humanity and humans dont need to be labeled or misjudged, despite their efforts to interpret the stars. The concept of the occult isnt evil. Its how you use it that is. I daresay god has many faces or facets, in that sense.

Astrology isn't the devil, but it is restricted from followers of the faith even though the Bible acknowledges Astrologers place in ancient royal courts it does not note them with esteem but rather derision.

"Do not practice divination or sorcery." is the common theme

Divination was common among the pagan peoples of the Bible lands. When the Israelites were about to enter the Promised Land of Canaan, God warned them not to practice astrology:

Deuteronomy 18:10-14 “There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you. You shall be blameless before the Lord your God, for these nations, which you are about to dispossess, listen to fortune-tellers and to diviners. But as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you to do this.”

Deuteronomy 4:19, "And beware not to lift up your eyes to heaven and see the sun and the moon and the stars, all the host of heaven, and be drawn away and worship them and serve them, those which the LORD your God has allotted to all the peoples under the whole heaven.

Micah 5:12 “And I will cut off sorceries from your hand, and you shall have no more tellers of fortunes.”

Jeremiah 10:1–3, "Hear the word which the LORD speaks to you, O house of Israel. 2 Thus says the LORD, "Do not learn the way of the nations, and do not be terrified by the signs of the heavens although the nations are terrified by them; 3 For the customs of the peoples are delusion; Because it is wood cut from the forest, The work of the hands of a craftsman with a cutting tool."

As for the magi...there are many competing theories but most believe that the magi were Zorastrian Priests (closer to ancient astronomers) rather than Chaldean Astrologers. It rings as convenient to me...and frankly I wonder if the Magi were there at all but honestly it matters very little in the light of iron clad condemnations of the practice. If astrologers did come to the Birth of Christ if anything it implies that those men despite what they felt was the possession of supernatural knowledge still honored the new born Christ as the ultimate divine.

click to expand

I practise divination and also get told by nuns i’m very close to God

Like in all walks of life there is good and not so good.

Some of the not so good can also be church going, bible thumping, holier than thou hypocrites

...and Ive no need to remind everyone what some catholic priests inflicted on innocent children whilst at the same time threatening them with hell if they sinned. Irony hey?

We don’t need a book, a church or a priest to tell us how to be a good person. We can learn that ourselves. One of the kindest people i knew was a staunch atheïst.

Posted by Ixi

Posted by MyStarsShine

Posted by Ixi

Posted by RollergirlOrc

Astrology isn't "the devil". Why would there be 3 magi traversing the desert upon seeing certain stars and them knowing a king was born? Yes, astrology is of the earth, it's probably something we should all transcend beyond because it often serves to pigeonhole humanity and humans dont need to be labeled or misjudged, despite their efforts to interpret the stars. The concept of the occult isnt evil. Its how you use it that is. I daresay god has many faces or facets, in that sense.

Astrology isn't the devil, but it is restricted from followers of the faith even though the Bible acknowledges Astrologers place in ancient royal courts it does not note them with esteem but rather derision.

"Do not practice divination or sorcery." is the common theme

Divination was common among the pagan peoples of the Bible lands. When the Israelites were about to enter the Promised Land of Canaan, God warned them not to practice astrology:

Deuteronomy 18:10-14 “There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you. You shall be blameless before the Lord your God, for these nations, which you are about to dispossess, listen to fortune-tellers and to diviners. But as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you to do this.”

Deuteronomy 4:19, "And beware not to lift up your eyes to heaven and see the sun and the moon and the stars, all the host of heaven, and be drawn away and worship them and serve them, those which the LORD your God has allotted to all the peoples under the whole heaven.

Micah 5:12 “And I will cut off sorceries from your hand, and you shall have no more tellers of fortunes.”

Jeremiah 10:1–3, "Hear the word which the LORD speaks to you, O house of Israel. 2 Thus says the LORD, "Do not learn the way of the nations, and do not be terrified by the signs of the heavens although the nations are terrified by them; 3 For the customs of the peoples are delusion; Because it is wood cut from the forest, The work of the hands of a craftsman with a cutting tool."

As for the magi...there are many competing theories but most believe that the magi were Zorastrian Priests (closer to ancient astronomers) rather than Chaldean Astrologers. It rings as convenient to me...and frankly I wonder if the Magi were there at all but honestly it matters very little in the light of iron clad condemnations of the practice. If astrologers did come to the Birth of Christ if anything it implies that those men despite what they felt was the possession of supernatural knowledge still honored the new born Christ as the ultimate divine.

I practise divination and also get told by nuns i’m very close to God

Like in all walks of life there is good and not so good.

Some of the not so good can also be church going, bible thumping, holier than thou hypocrites

...and Ive no need to remind everyone what some catholic priests inflicted on innocent children whilst at the same time threatening them with hell if they sinned. Irony hey?

We don’t need a book, a church or a priest to tell us how to be a good person. We can learn that ourselves. One of the kindest people i knew was a staunch atheïst.

I'm not catholic, nor do I hold nuns, pastors, saints, cardinals or any church office holder as being a religious authority over The Word of God. While I do not take the bible as verbatim I do know the God I serve as He has revealed himself to me through the Word.

Whataboutism does not change the importance of the authority of the Word in the faith nor does the fact that Christians sin. Christianity is not a naive religion it does not hold the notion that to be human is to err. It also very much acknowledges that in the final days the Earthly Church will be deeply troubled:

2 Timothy 3:1-9.

But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9 But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.

And Matthew 24: 4-14

4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

........

Also, lovingly, I rebuke the falsehood that Christians do not need to align themselves with the Word of God and Christ.

The Church is repeatedly warned about certainty in our knowledge and ways of earthly being as being superior to the direction of Christ and are in fact commanded to humble ourselves to this fact.

Proverbs 3:5-6

5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart

and lean not on your own understanding;

6 in all your ways submit to him,

and he will make your paths straight



==========

Someone being kind is wonderful but just as one can't change their sinful nature through earthly work...one doesn't become redeemable in the Eyes of Christ by being the most pleasant human out there.

click to expand

So how does one redeem themselves to the Messiah?

I said kind ... as in helping anyone in need, forgiving quickly, being a faithful husband and good dad, not stealing etc etc

My mother preached the Bible to me until I’d had enough......she was also quite racist, homophobic and judgemental. My aetheist Dad wasn’t any of those things but all the above mentioned.

I hear you

Posted by Ixi

Posted by MyStarsShine

Posted by Ixi

Posted by MyStarsShine

Posted by Ixi

Posted by RollergirlOrc

Astrology isn't "the devil". Why would there be 3 magi traversing the desert upon seeing certain stars and them knowing a king was born? Yes, astrology is of the earth, it's probably something we should all transcend beyond because it often serves to pigeonhole humanity and humans dont need to be labeled or misjudged, despite their efforts to interpret the stars. The concept of the occult isnt evil. Its how you use it that is. I daresay god has many faces or facets, in that sense.

Astrology isn't the devil, but it is restricted from followers of the faith even though the Bible acknowledges Astrologers place in ancient royal courts it does not note them with esteem but rather derision.

"Do not practice divination or sorcery." is the common theme

Divination was common among the pagan peoples of the Bible lands. When the Israelites were about to enter the Promised Land of Canaan, God warned them not to practice astrology:

Deuteronomy 18:10-14 “There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you. You shall be blameless before the Lord your God, for these nations, which you are about to dispossess, listen to fortune-tellers and to diviners. But as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you to do this.”

Deuteronomy 4:19, "And beware not to lift up your eyes to heaven and see the sun and the moon and the stars, all the host of heaven, and be drawn away and worship them and serve them, those which the LORD your God has allotted to all the peoples under the whole heaven.

Micah 5:12 “And I will cut off sorceries from your hand, and you shall have no more tellers of fortunes.”

Jeremiah 10:1–3, "Hear the word which the LORD speaks to you, O house of Israel. 2 Thus says the LORD, "Do not learn the way of the nations, and do not be terrified by the signs of the heavens although the nations are terrified by them; 3 For the customs of the peoples are delusion; Because it is wood cut from the forest, The work of the hands of a craftsman with a cutting tool."

As for the magi...there are many competing theories but most believe that the magi were Zorastrian Priests (closer to ancient astronomers) rather than Chaldean Astrologers. It rings as convenient to me...and frankly I wonder if the Magi were there at all but honestly it matters very little in the light of iron clad condemnations of the practice. If astrologers did come to the Birth of Christ if anything it implies that those men despite what they felt was the possession of supernatural knowledge still honored the new born Christ as the ultimate divine.

I practise divination and also get told by nuns i’m very close to God

Like in all walks of life there is good and not so good.

Some of the not so good can also be church going, bible thumping, holier than thou hypocrites

...and Ive no need to remind everyone what some catholic priests inflicted on innocent children whilst at the same time threatening them with hell if they sinned. Irony hey?

We don’t need a book, a church or a priest to tell us how to be a good person. We can learn that ourselves. One of the kindest people i knew was a staunch atheïst.

I'm not catholic, nor do I hold nuns, pastors, saints, cardinals or any church office holder as being a religious authority over The Word of God. While I do not take the bible as verbatim I do know the God I serve as He has revealed himself to me through the Word.

Whataboutism does not change the importance of the authority of the Word in the faith nor does the fact that Christians sin. Christianity is not a naive religion it does not hold the notion that to be human is to err. It also very much acknowledges that in the final days the Earthly Church will be deeply troubled:

2 Timothy 3:1-9.

But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9 But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.

And Matthew 24: 4-14

4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

........

Also, lovingly, I rebuke the falsehood that Christians do not need to align themselves with the Word of God and Christ.

The Church is repeatedly warned about certainty in our knowledge and ways of earthly being as being superior to the direction of Christ and are in fact commanded to humble ourselves to this fact.

Proverbs 3:5-6

5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart

and lean not on your own understanding;

6 in all your ways submit to him,

and he will make your paths straight



==========

Someone being kind is wonderful but just as one can't change their sinful nature through earthly work...one doesn't become redeemable in the Eyes of Christ by being the most pleasant human out there.

So how does one redeem themselves to the Messiah?

I said kind ... as in helping anyone in need, forgiving quickly, being a faithful husband and good dad, not stealing etc etc

My mother preached the Bible to me until I’d had enough......she was also quite racist, homophobic and judgemental. My aetheist Dad wasn’t any of those things but all the above mentioned.

I understood what you meant. I am saying those qualities while admirable are not the source of one's salvation or reconcilement with Jesus and ultimately the Almighty in the protestant faith tradition. Also please note I'm not here to preach to ya, that's for sure, I'm sharing my knowledge of the religion and the text as it relates to the conversation not your specific life experiences.

Everything I am saying is within the context of just this conversation as it relates to the Bible, I always leave your final judgments for you and whatever powers you acknowledge.

As for me... I deeply abide by the commandment to be loving and to refrain from condemnation by wrong measures...so I have no opinion on you as a person...My correction of what you said earlier comes from another command:

"1 Peter 3:15-16 ESV / 169 helpful votes

But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, having a good conscience,..."

I have no desire to dominate your beliefs or convince you otherwise, beyond my hope that our daily interaction serves as a visible counterpoint to your conception of what a Christian and what Christianity is.

click to expand

“As for me... I deeply abide by the commandment to be loving and to refrain from condemnation by wrong measures”...

As did my father

As do I try to...

His departing message to me was

“Above all things, have intense love for one another”

Love ...

Posted by Ixi

Posted by MyStarsShine

Posted by Ixi

Posted by MyStarsShine

Posted by Ixi

Posted by RollergirlOrc

Astrology isn't "the devil". Why would there be 3 magi traversing the desert upon seeing certain stars and them knowing a king was born? Yes, astrology is of the earth, it's probably something we should all transcend beyond because it often serves to pigeonhole humanity and humans dont need to be labeled or misjudged, despite their efforts to interpret the stars. The concept of the occult isnt evil. Its how you use it that is. I daresay god has many faces or facets, in that sense.

Astrology isn't the devil, but it is restricted from followers of the faith even though the Bible acknowledges Astrologers place in ancient royal courts it does not note them with esteem but rather derision.

"Do not practice divination or sorcery." is the common theme

Divination was common among the pagan peoples of the Bible lands. When the Israelites were about to enter the Promised Land of Canaan, God warned them not to practice astrology:

Deuteronomy 18:10-14 “There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you. You shall be blameless before the Lord your God, for these nations, which you are about to dispossess, listen to fortune-tellers and to diviners. But as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you to do this.”

Deuteronomy 4:19, "And beware not to lift up your eyes to heaven and see the sun and the moon and the stars, all the host of heaven, and be drawn away and worship them and serve them, those which the LORD your God has allotted to all the peoples under the whole heaven.

Micah 5:12 “And I will cut off sorceries from your hand, and you shall have no more tellers of fortunes.”

Jeremiah 10:1–3, "Hear the word which the LORD speaks to you, O house of Israel. 2 Thus says the LORD, "Do not learn the way of the nations, and do not be terrified by the signs of the heavens although the nations are terrified by them; 3 For the customs of the peoples are delusion; Because it is wood cut from the forest, The work of the hands of a craftsman with a cutting tool."

As for the magi...there are many competing theories but most believe that the magi were Zorastrian Priests (closer to ancient astronomers) rather than Chaldean Astrologers. It rings as convenient to me...and frankly I wonder if the Magi were there at all but honestly it matters very little in the light of iron clad condemnations of the practice. If astrologers did come to the Birth of Christ if anything it implies that those men despite what they felt was the possession of supernatural knowledge still honored the new born Christ as the ultimate divine.

I practise divination and also get told by nuns i’m very close to God

Like in all walks of life there is good and not so good.

Some of the not so good can also be church going, bible thumping, holier than thou hypocrites

...and Ive no need to remind everyone what some catholic priests inflicted on innocent children whilst at the same time threatening them with hell if they sinned. Irony hey?

We don’t need a book, a church or a priest to tell us how to be a good person. We can learn that ourselves. One of the kindest people i knew was a staunch atheïst.

I'm not catholic, nor do I hold nuns, pastors, saints, cardinals or any church office holder as being a religious authority over The Word of God. While I do not take the bible as verbatim I do know the God I serve as He has revealed himself to me through the Word.

Whataboutism does not change the importance of the authority of the Word in the faith nor does the fact that Christians sin. Christianity is not a naive religion it does not hold the notion that to be human is to err. It also very much acknowledges that in the final days the Earthly Church will be deeply troubled:

2 Timothy 3:1-9.

But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9 But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.

And Matthew 24: 4-14

4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

........

Also, lovingly, I rebuke the falsehood that Christians do not need to align themselves with the Word of God and Christ.

The Church is repeatedly warned about certainty in our knowledge and ways of earthly being as being superior to the direction of Christ and are in fact commanded to humble ourselves to this fact.

Proverbs 3:5-6

5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart

and lean not on your own understanding;

6 in all your ways submit to him,

and he will make your paths straight



==========

Someone being kind is wonderful but just as one can't change their sinful nature through earthly work...one doesn't become redeemable in the Eyes of Christ by being the most pleasant human out there.

So how does one redeem themselves to the Messiah?

I said kind ... as in helping anyone in need, forgiving quickly, being a faithful husband and good dad, not stealing etc etc

My mother preached the Bible to me until I’d had enough......she was also quite racist, homophobic and judgemental. My aetheist Dad wasn’t any of those things but all the above mentioned.

I understood what you meant. I am saying those qualities while admirable are not the source of one's salvation or reconcilement with Jesus and ultimately the Almighty in the protestant faith tradition. Also please note I'm not here to preach to ya, that's for sure, I'm sharing my knowledge of the religion and the text as it relates to the conversation not your specific life experiences.

Everything I am saying is within the context of just this conversation as it relates to the Bible, I always leave your final judgments for you and whatever powers you acknowledge.

As for me... I deeply abide by the commandment to be loving and to refrain from condemnation by wrong measures...so I have no opinion on you as a person...My correction of what you said earlier comes from another command:

"1 Peter 3:15-16 ESV / 169 helpful votes

But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, having a good conscience,..."

I have no desire to dominate your beliefs or convince you otherwise, beyond my hope that our daily interaction serves as a visible counterpoint to your conception of what a Christian and what Christianity is.

click to expand

Trying to be a real christian in a society which saw sin as something casual or normal and not doing it would make you getting mocked, eh ? even more getting mocked if you condemn it.

Like being drunk, eating pig/swine, sex before marriage, pagan worship(which many could be found in the cruch), abortion, masturbation, same sex marriage etc2, which this society brainwashed into believing that it is great and everyone should do it, but if you condemning it (like christ did when he try to convince his society to believe in father which almost took his life if the father did not come to save him) society would even more condemn you.

Allow to present thee, with one example of the real great deception





Where you cant even trust your very eyes.

Posted by Ixi

Posted by MyStarsShine

Posted by Ixi

Posted by MyStarsShine

Posted by Ixi

Posted by MyStarsShine

Posted by Ixi

Posted by RollergirlOrc

Astrology isn't "the devil". Why would there be 3 magi traversing the desert upon seeing certain stars and them knowing a king was born? Yes, astrology is of the earth, it's probably something we should all transcend beyond because it often serves to pigeonhole humanity and humans dont need to be labeled or misjudged, despite their efforts to interpret the stars. The concept of the occult isnt evil. Its how you use it that is. I daresay god has many faces or facets, in that sense.

Astrology isn't the devil, but it is restricted from followers of the faith even though the Bible acknowledges Astrologers place in ancient royal courts it does not note them with esteem but rather derision.

"Do not practice divination or sorcery." is the common theme

Divination was common among the pagan peoples of the Bible lands. When the Israelites were about to enter the Promised Land of Canaan, God warned them not to practice astrology:

Deuteronomy 18:10-14 “There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you. You shall be blameless before the Lord your God, for these nations, which you are about to dispossess, listen to fortune-tellers and to diviners. But as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you to do this.”

Deuteronomy 4:19, "And beware not to lift up your eyes to heaven and see the sun and the moon and the stars, all the host of heaven, and be drawn away and worship them and serve them, those which the LORD your God has allotted to all the peoples under the whole heaven.

Micah 5:12 “And I will cut off sorceries from your hand, and you shall have no more tellers of fortunes.”

Jeremiah 10:1–3, "Hear the word which the LORD speaks to you, O house of Israel. 2 Thus says the LORD, "Do not learn the way of the nations, and do not be terrified by the signs of the heavens although the nations are terrified by them; 3 For the customs of the peoples are delusion; Because it is wood cut from the forest, The work of the hands of a craftsman with a cutting tool."

As for the magi...there are many competing theories but most believe that the magi were Zorastrian Priests (closer to ancient astronomers) rather than Chaldean Astrologers. It rings as convenient to me...and frankly I wonder if the Magi were there at all but honestly it matters very little in the light of iron clad condemnations of the practice. If astrologers did come to the Birth of Christ if anything it implies that those men despite what they felt was the possession of supernatural knowledge still honored the new born Christ as the ultimate divine.

I practise divination and also get told by nuns i’m very close to God

Like in all walks of life there is good and not so good.

Some of the not so good can also be church going, bible thumping, holier than thou hypocrites

...and Ive no need to remind everyone what some catholic priests inflicted on innocent children whilst at the same time threatening them with hell if they sinned. Irony hey?

We don’t need a book, a church or a priest to tell us how to be a good person. We can learn that ourselves. One of the kindest people i knew was a staunch atheïst.

I'm not catholic, nor do I hold nuns, pastors, saints, cardinals or any church office holder as being a religious authority over The Word of God. While I do not take the bible as verbatim I do know the God I serve as He has revealed himself to me through the Word.

Whataboutism does not change the importance of the authority of the Word in the faith nor does the fact that Christians sin. Christianity is not a naive religion it does not hold the notion that to be human is to err. It also very much acknowledges that in the final days the Earthly Church will be deeply troubled:

2 Timothy 3:1-9.

But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9 But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.

And Matthew 24: 4-14

4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

........

Also, lovingly, I rebuke the falsehood that Christians do not need to align themselves with the Word of God and Christ.

The Church is repeatedly warned about certainty in our knowledge and ways of earthly being as being superior to the direction of Christ and are in fact commanded to humble ourselves to this fact.

Proverbs 3:5-6

5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart

and lean not on your own understanding;

6 in all your ways submit to him,

and he will make your paths straight



==========

Someone being kind is wonderful but just as one can't change their sinful nature through earthly work...one doesn't become redeemable in the Eyes of Christ by being the most pleasant human out there.

So how does one redeem themselves to the Messiah?

I said kind ... as in helping anyone in need, forgiving quickly, being a faithful husband and good dad, not stealing etc etc

My mother preached the Bible to me until I’d had enough......she was also quite racist, homophobic and judgemental. My aetheist Dad wasn’t any of those things but all the above mentioned.

I understood what you meant. I am saying those qualities while admirable are not the source of one's salvation or reconcilement with Jesus and ultimately the Almighty in the protestant faith tradition. Also please note I'm not here to preach to ya, that's for sure, I'm sharing my knowledge of the religion and the text as it relates to the conversation not your specific life experiences.

Everything I am saying is within the context of just this conversation as it relates to the Bible, I always leave your final judgments for you and whatever powers you acknowledge.

As for me... I deeply abide by the commandment to be loving and to refrain from condemnation by wrong measures...so I have no opinion on you as a person...My correction of what you said earlier comes from another command:

"1 Peter 3:15-16 ESV / 169 helpful votes

But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, having a good conscience,..."

I have no desire to dominate your beliefs or convince you otherwise, beyond my hope that our daily interaction serves as a visible counterpoint to your conception of what a Christian and what Christianity is.

“As for me... I deeply abide by the commandment to be loving and to refrain from condemnation by wrong measures”...

As did my father

As do I try to...

His departing message to me was

“Above all things, have intense love for one another”

Love ...

🤷🏾‍♂️ I've spoken my peace on the matter. Take it or leave it.

click to expand

Christ condemn/reminding them and you're not and yet you think you follow christ ?

Posted by Ixi

Posted by RollergirlOrc

Astrology isn't "the devil". Why would there be 3 magi traversing the desert upon seeing certain stars and them knowing a king was born? Yes, astrology is of the earth, it's probably something we should all transcend beyond because it often serves to pigeonhole humanity and humans dont need to be labeled or misjudged, despite their efforts to interpret the stars. The concept of the occult isnt evil. Its how you use it that is. I daresay god has many faces or facets, in that sense.

Astrology isn't the devil, but it is restricted from followers of the faith even though the Bible acknowledges Astrologers place in ancient royal courts it does not note them with esteem but rather derision.

"Do not practice divination or sorcery." is the common theme

Divination was common among the pagan peoples of the Bible lands. When the Israelites were about to enter the Promised Land of Canaan, God warned them not to practice astrology:

Deuteronomy 18:10-14 “There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you. You shall be blameless before the Lord your God, for these nations, which you are about to dispossess, listen to fortune-tellers and to diviners. But as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you to do this.”

Deuteronomy 4:19, "And beware not to lift up your eyes to heaven and see the sun and the moon and the stars, all the host of heaven, and be drawn away and worship them and serve them, those which the LORD your God has allotted to all the peoples under the whole heaven.

Micah 5:12 “And I will cut off sorceries from your hand, and you shall have no more tellers of fortunes.”

Jeremiah 10:1–3, "Hear the word which the LORD speaks to you, O house of Israel. 2 Thus says the LORD, "Do not learn the way of the nations, and do not be terrified by the signs of the heavens although the nations are terrified by them; 3 For the customs of the peoples are delusion; Because it is wood cut from the forest, The work of the hands of a craftsman with a cutting tool."

As for the magi...there are many competing theories but most believe that the magi were Zorastrian Priests (closer to ancient astronomers) rather than Chaldean Astrologers. It rings as convenient to me...and frankly I wonder if the Magi were there at all but honestly it matters very little in the light of iron clad condemnations of the practice. If astrologers did come to the Birth of Christ if anything it implies that those men despite what they felt was the possession of supernatural knowledge still honored the new born Christ as the ultimate divine.

click to expand

Ephesians 5:18 ESV / 837 helpful votes

And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit,

Proverbs 20:1 ESV / 593 helpful votes

Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise.

Galatians 5:21 ESV / 577 helpful votes

Envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Peter 5:8 ESV / 394 helpful votes

Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

1 Corinthians 6:10 ESV / 363 helpful votes

Nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Proverbs 23:29-35 ESV / 325 helpful votes

Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has strife? Who has complaining? Who has wounds without cause? Who has redness of eyes? Those who tarry long over wine; those who go to try mixed wine. Do not look at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup and goes down smoothly. In the end it bites like a serpent and stings like an adder. Your eyes will see strange things, and your heart utter perverse things. ...

Isaiah 5:11 ESV / 313 helpful votes

Woe to those who rise early in the morning, that they may run after strong drink, who tarry late into the evening as wine inflames them!

Romans 13:13 ESV / 233 helpful votes

Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy.

Hebrews 10:26 ESV / 206 helpful votes

For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

1 Corinthians 5:11 ESV / 202 helpful votes

But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.

Romans 14:21 ESV / 185 helpful votes

It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble.

Proverbs 23:20-21 ESV / 182 helpful votes

Be not among drunkards or among gluttonous eaters of meat, for the drunkard and the glutton will come to poverty, and slumber will clothe them with rags.

1 Timothy 5:23 ESV / 175 helpful votes

(No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.)

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 ESV / 173 helpful votes

Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.

Hosea 4:11 ESV / 170 helpful votes

Whoredom, wine, and new wine, which take away the understanding.

1 Timothy 3:8 ESV / 162 helpful votes

Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain.

Titus 2:3 ESV / 153 helpful votes

Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good,

Proverbs 31:4-5 ESV / 144 helpful votes

It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine, or for rulers to take strong drink, lest they drink and forget what has been decreed and pervert the rights of all the afflicted.

Isaiah 28:7 ESV / 143 helpful votes

These also reel with wine and stagger with strong drink; the priest and the prophet reel with strong drink, they are swallowed by wine, they stagger with strong drink, they reel in vision, they stumble in giving judgment.

Isaiah 5:22 ESV / 138 helpful votes

Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine, and valiant men in mixing strong drink,

Proverbs 31:6-7 ESV / 133 helpful votes

Give strong drink to the one who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more.

Proverbs 23:31 ESV / 133 helpful votes

Do not look at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup and goes down smoothly.

Habakkuk 2:15 ESV / 130 helpful votes

“Woe to him who makes his neighbors drink— you pour out your wrath and make them drunk, in order to gaze at their nakedness!

Deuteronomy 21:20 ESV / 110 helpful votes

And they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’

Galatians 5:19-21 ESV / 96 helpful votes

Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Proverbs 23:21 ESV / 94 helpful votes

For the drunkard and the glutton will come to poverty, and slumber will clothe them with rags.

Genesis 9:21 ESV / 92 helpful votes

He drank of the wine and became drunk and lay uncovered in his tent.

Ephesians 5:17-19 ESV / 91 helpful votes

Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit, addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart,

Psalm 104:14-15 ESV / 90 helpful votes

You cause the grass to grow for the livestock and plants for man to cultivate, that he may bring forth food from the earth and wine to gladden the heart of man, oil to make his face shine and bread to strengthen man's heart.

Proverbs 31:6 ESV / 87 helpful votes

Give strong drink to the one who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress;

1 Timothy 3:3 ESV / 82 helpful votes

Not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.

John 2:10 ESV / 79 helpful votes

And said to him, “Everyone serves the good wine first, and when people have drunk freely, then the poor wine. But you have kept the good wine until now.”

1 Peter 4:3 ESV / 77 helpful votes

For the time that is past suffices for doing what the Gentiles want to do, living in sensuality, passions, drunkenness, orgies, drinking parties, and lawless idolatry.

Leviticus 10:8-11 ESV / 77 helpful votes

And the Lord spoke to Aaron, saying, “Drink no wine or strong drink, you or your sons with you, when you go into the tent of meeting, lest you die. It shall be a statute forever throughout your generations. You are to distinguish between the holy and the common, and between the unclean and the clean, and you are to teach the people of Israel all the statutes that the Lord has spoken to them by Moses.”

Psalm 104:15 ESV / 76 helpful votes

And wine to gladden the heart of man, oil to make his face shine and bread to strengthen man's heart.

Luke 21:34 ESV / 74 helpful votes

“But watch yourselves

Posted by Ixi

Posted by RollergirlOrc

Astrology isn't "the devil". Why would there be 3 magi traversing the desert upon seeing certain stars and them knowing a king was born? Yes, astrology is of the earth, it's probably something we should all transcend beyond because it often serves to pigeonhole humanity and humans dont need to be labeled or misjudged, despite their efforts to interpret the stars. The concept of the occult isnt evil. Its how you use it that is. I daresay god has many faces or facets, in that sense.

Astrology isn't the devil, but it is restricted from followers of the faith even though the Bible acknowledges Astrologers place in ancient royal courts it does not note them with esteem but rather derision.

"Do not practice divination or sorcery." is the common theme

Divination was common among the pagan peoples of the Bible lands. When the Israelites were about to enter the Promised Land of Canaan, God warned them not to practice astrology:

Deuteronomy 18:10-14 “There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you. You shall be blameless before the Lord your God, for these nations, which you are about to dispossess, listen to fortune-tellers and to diviners. But as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you to do this.”

Deuteronomy 4:19, "And beware not to lift up your eyes to heaven and see the sun and the moon and the stars, all the host of heaven, and be drawn away and worship them and serve them, those which the LORD your God has allotted to all the peoples under the whole heaven.

Micah 5:12 “And I will cut off sorceries from your hand, and you shall have no more tellers of fortunes.”

Jeremiah 10:1–3, "Hear the word which the LORD speaks to you, O house of Israel. 2 Thus says the LORD, "Do not learn the way of the nations, and do not be terrified by the signs of the heavens although the nations are terrified by them; 3 For the customs of the peoples are delusion; Because it is wood cut from the forest, The work of the hands of a craftsman with a cutting tool."

As for the magi...there are many competing theories but most believe that the magi were Zorastrian Priests (closer to ancient astronomers) rather than Chaldean Astrologers. It rings as convenient to me...and frankly I wonder if the Magi were there at all but honestly it matters very little in the light of iron clad condemnations of the practice. If astrologers did come to the Birth of Christ if anything it implies that those men despite what they felt was the possession of supernatural knowledge still honored the new born Christ as the ultimate divine.

click to expand

I could quote everything if you want.

Its not condemning it just... well, it is what it is.

It is christ itself in his book whos condemining it.

Posted by Ixi

This list of scriptures @einspisces is for who? Me? For what?

If you want to believe that Christians are meant principally to condemn others, judge by the wrong measures and give unbidden and decontextualized "reminders" of others mortality and sinful nature. By all means, go ahead.

But I know for a Biblical fact that we are restricted from judging in a condemning or hypocritical fashion. And that is so very hard to do when one doesn't use discernment to know when to judge out of love, or what measures to use.

So if saying how bad people are and that they are in danger is the motivating force behind your faith, go ahead and have at it, but if you are looking for me to join you in commiserating at how bad the world is in general. I'm sorry friend, but I am not interested.

But its christ who condemn them in his scripture not me, if you want to protest dont protest on me, protest to christ for christ the one who made those word.

Posted by Chancellor

Posted by _Dazed

This fool acting like I don't remember his days riling up the jokers on the Scorpio board back in the day. Don't make me call Exo to check you, Don.

I guess you could say that I'm 321 days sober.

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Difference being that I don't go to the bar to preach sobriety.