Meaning of Life

If you believe in God, don't you think that there would be no miserable feelings if our creator was indeed good and loved us ?

I've started to think that we are a science experiment. Or I'm going mad 😛

Our creator does not show love by taking away your life experiences. You have free will, you can choose to be miserable or you can choose to live in your misery.

I mean if I were God, I would want the beings I create to be happy all the time. They wouldn't get badly injured, or sick, or old. I wouldn't put them to test because they did this or that, on a world where they have to work so hard.

God is either not that good, or not that great.

You have good points. But what I'm saying is, if God was really capable of ANYTHING and was really good, everyone would already be living in paradise.

I don't hear rich and beautiful people complain so much. Everyone could be living like that. Enjoying the sunrise and the sunset together, without ever having to work.

Noone would go to war because everyone would already have everything.

Posted by beggarsblanket
You have good points. But what I'm saying is, if God was really capable of ANYTHING and was really good, everyone would already be living in paradise.

I don't hear rich and beautiful people complain so much. Everyone could be living like that. Enjoying the sunrise and the sunset together, without ever having to work.

Noone would go to war because everyone would already have everything.

Rich and beautiful people have probably suffered in another lifetime, so they get to reap the benefits of this lifetime,maybe? You always hear people saying, "i'm going to do good this time around, so next lifetime, I'll be rich and beautiful and won't suffer so much."

but if you want to really get into religious and spiritual discussion: In short, there is no happiness without suffering. You take advantage of life and the people around you. You take everything for granted.

Posted by beggarsblanket
If you believe in God, don't you think that there would be no miserable feelings if our creator was indeed good and loved us ?

I've started to think that we are a science experiment. Or I'm going mad 😛

Philosophers have debated about "The Problem of Evil" as an argument against God's existence for millennia. Arguments which attempt to defend reasons a deity would have for allowing evil are referred to as theodicies.

Basically, there's the free will theodicy, which asserts that there must at least be the bare possibility of choosing against the good, if we are to be anything but automatons, and if moral development/evolution is to be possible. How significant are out choices - how "good" can a human be as an individual moral agent - if they are predetermined to always choose the good? Some argue that free will is also essential for love.

Then you have various other versions of "higher order good" theodicies - often called "soul-making" theodicies, which assert that, beyond free will, there are other aspects of character that we see as supremely good, and would not exist or be cultivated without evil. For instance, where would generosity and many forms of altruism be without others in want? Where would heroism be without real peril? Where would bravery be without the possibility of fear? Patience, endurance, etc. There are many forms of good, that do seem to presuppose the existence of suffering.

There are many other theodicies, some which involve God actually suffering with humanity, the posited free will considerations of beings that interact with and, on some accounts, even partly govern this world (demonic, angelic, etc.), but these I would say are the major lines historically.

Hey thanks for the post ! 🙂

It's hard to argue with philosophers.

I still think that we would know the value of food even if we were all rich. This living experience could be much more enjoyable without all the fear and despair people go through.

I see myself as a lucky person, but if I were poor and felt ugly, or had to go to war, I wouldn't last a day.

Posted by lisabethur8

Posted by beggarsblanket
You have good points. But what I'm saying is, if God was really capable of ANYTHING and was really good, everyone would already be living in paradise.

I don't hear rich and beautiful people complain so much. Everyone could be living like that. Enjoying the sunrise and the sunset together, without ever having to work.

Noone would go to war because everyone would already have everything.

Rich and beautiful people have probably suffered in another lifetime, so they get to reap the benefits of this lifetime,maybe? You always hear people saying, "i'm going to do good this time around, so next lifetime, I'll be rich and beautiful and won't suffer so much."

click to expand

Like in reincarnation ?

It would be interesting to be a bird maybe in my next life 😄

It's about choices, no matter how you want to believe in the divine and what name you want to call it/him/her or even if you don't want to believe in the divine. You can choose how you behave, how you treat others, how you treat yourself.

Fact, no matter how much one believes, has faith, etc, life is NOT fair. As the others have stated, without the bad we wouldn't appreciate the good. This is just the way it is no matter what you believe.

Posted by beggarsblanket
You have good points. But what I'm saying is, if God was really capable of ANYTHING and was really good, everyone would already be living in paradise.

I don't hear rich and beautiful people complain so much. Everyone could be living like that. Enjoying the sunrise and the sunset together, without ever having to work.

Noone would go to war because everyone would already have everything.

Money and beauty do not guarantee happiness.

Posted by Montgomery

Posted by beggarsblanket
You have good points. But what I'm saying is, if God was really capable of ANYTHING and was really good, everyone would already be living in paradise.

I don't hear rich and beautiful people complain so much. Everyone could be living like that. Enjoying the sunrise and the sunset together, without ever having to work.

Noone would go to war because everyone would already have everything.

Money and beauty do not guarantee happiness.

click to expand

True.

But who would say no to such a life where we could all be partying all the time, loving each other, and not worrying about anything ? I know I wouldn't.

If I were such a good and perfect God, I wouldn't let children or poor old people suffer. I can't even stand the thought of these things. I know how my dad suffered before he died a few years ago. He was such a good dad and it made us all so sad.

Seriously though, why put people through tests, so that they can prove that they worship you ?

Guys, is it just me or is God a scorpio ? 😛

Posted by beggarsblanket
If I were such a good and perfect God, I wouldn't let children or poor old people suffer. I can't even stand the thought of these things. I know how my dad suffered before he died a few years ago. He was such a good dad and it made us all so sad.

Seriously though, why put people through tests, so that they can prove that they worship you?

Guys, is it just me or is God a scorpio? 😛

LoL!


And I don't have all the answers, but I'm not sure why people's hardships would be considered "... tests" to "... prove that they worship" God.

That doesn't ring true to me, and I don't think it's biblical (if that's what you're basing it on), either.

Their are some happy poor people, happy ugly people, happy people that are alone but not lonely.

Life is what we make of it no matter what the circumstance and conditions. I don't claim to have all the answers but to me it's a matter of perspective.

Some people have everything and create a mental emotional hell for themselves. Some people have very little and live in nirvana, are centered, at peace and content with themselves.

We live on planet that is defined by opposites, this is the Universe we live in and must learn how to adjust, overcome and evolve on whatever spiritual level we inhabit.

Maybe there is a Universe where everything functions on pure happiness but earth isn't it.

Posted by beggarsblanket
Hey thanks for the post ! 🙂

It's hard to argue with philosophers.

It is hard to argue with philosophers because they are in (unfortunately IMO) one of the few disciplines where it is essential to recieve formal training in logic & argumentation. The world's leading analytic philosopher dealing with the "Problem of Evil" is actually a 3rd decan Scorpio by the name of Alvin Plantinga; he is easily the most brilliant philosophers I have come in contact with and he revolutionized the modern field of Philosophy of Religion with his work. Even prominent atheist philosophers credit him with undercutting the so-called "logical" problem of evil (though there are other popular versions still accepted - e.g. the "evidential"), in his book _God, Freedom, and Evil_. It is heavy reading and probably not suited for people without some background in philosophy.

Here is an interview with Plantinga, and he gives a short version of one of his arguments against atheism towards the end:

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/02/09/is-atheism-irrational/<BR>
Here he is addressing the Problem of Evil in a 2 part interview:

Grandfather has many children.
Many children love him and many children hate him.

His children love him, but those that do not love him, hate him.
He cannot be fooled. Inasmuch as I can see right through my children's BS, how much more
can Grandfather see, than I.

People are given a choice. How to treat one another.
IF you wish to be treated like trash, just go around and treat others like trash.
Before long, you'll get your wish.
That rule applies to everyone. From anonymous individuals and infamous nations and empires.

Sometimes I think that all misery and sorrows in life have more to do about how we treat
one another.
They call it heaven, but is it heaven if people who were rotten to each other allowed in?
Imagine a dysfunctional family in your house. Tearing everything up and making members of
your own family miserable. IMHO, heaven would not be "paradise" if people who live like that, got in.

Isaiah 45:7

King James Version (KJV)

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.




With that proclamation in mind, what are these endless arguments concerning "evil".

If one understood the definition of what "evil" truly was, one might be surprised that
"evil" might not necessarily be a bad thing when the intents and purposes of such "evil" is understood.

Perhaps the reader should ask, "What exactly IS... 'Evil'?"

Well, I can tell you this - You cannot fight "evil" with tanks, guns and bombs, etc..
Evil, itself, is NOT a physical entity. I wonder if Mr. Bush ever thought about that.

Nahhh, I doubt it.

Posted by beggarsblanket
If I were such a good and perfect God, I wouldn't let children or poor old people suffer. I can't even stand the thought of these things. I know how my dad suffered before he died a few years ago. He was such a good dad and it made us all so sad.
😛

I think there is the issue of whether God & evil are compatible logically, which can be answered logically (and I think fairly easily), and there is a whole separate emotional/experiential component of evil, which is much more difficult. I think when we experience extreme suffering, no amount of argument or reasoning can really console us; evil and suffering *really* are essentially and irreducibly horrific, shocking, often seemingly absurd and chaotic, particularly from our limited perspective.

What you describe with your dad is one of the great tragedies of life IMO. We are brought into an existence by other beings, where we are so deeply embedded in them, that it is hard to imagine a scenario of deeper unity with another individual - we literally grow inside of them, are made from the merging of individual recipes to their very personality, are in awe of them and mimic their behaviors, are nurtured by them, relying on them for survival in every essential aspect in our formative years, bringing about some of the most intense emotional bonding that we will encounter on the planet, and then soon after....We get to subsequently watch these beings often undergo a long drawn out process of loss - loss of their strength and ability to provide for themselves, loss of much of their beauty and pride, often even their coherence of mind, and worse yet their sense of peace and comfort as many suffer debilitating diseases. There's much beauty in it along the way for sure, and I'm sure the human heart unfolds in aspects and increases in its depth of empathy in ways we can hardly comprehend, but the fact that it is also one of the greatest tragedies that a mind could ever conceive, is hard to deny.

(cont...)

Consider a possible scenario though, where the perfect world you desire actually exists - a world imbued with indescribable beauty, where we have an imperishable form that experiences no pain or suffering, where all knowledge is instant and all-encompassing, and where love is actually the substance of existence and flows universally between all beings who live in harmony and unity. Perhaps, instead of this merely being an "afterlife" scenario, we actually come from such a world and choose to incarnate on this planet, knowing beforehand the specific tests and troubles we will encounter, and earth is a type of school for souls where we experience duality, separation, suffering, etc., because it does have something deeper to teach us. Perhaps one day we??ll be surprised to find that free will was so important to the design of the universe, that we were not even forced to come into such an existence, that the onus was on us for accepting such a challenge, and that we were even excited to undertake it. What I've found shocking is that there is a *ton* of data that converges on such a scenario gleaned from pre-birth experiences during past life regression, near death experiences, and the accounts of mediums and channels.

If you??re a reader:
_Beyond Reincarnation_is written by the Emeritus Professor of Psychology at Athens State University who specializes in past life regression. Ch. 4 gives a very detailed and fascinating summary of the results of methods used to regress people specifically to pre-existence and life between lives.
_Trailing Clouds of Glory: First Person Glimpses into Premortality_ is by Harold Widdison, a Professor of Medical Sociology who is prominent in Near Death Experience research. This book is a large collection of pre-birth experiences revealed to people during their near death experiences, often when they encounter —the Light?? and are insistent on receiving answers to questions about the difficulty of their lives.
_Courageous Souls: Do We Plan Our Life Challenges Before Birth_ is by Robert Schwartz, another regression therapist, who combines his findings with those of mediums and channels.
_Cosmic Cradle: Spiritual Dimensions of Life Before Birth_ by Elizabeth and Neil Carman uses a variety of sources, many of which are people who claim to had vivid pre-birth memories since childhood.