The Struggle

I started this thought on another thread: [Scorps] are into power - personal power, magnetism, and the aura of attraction - and they understand the ultimate power... SEX! In fact, they seem helplessly fascinated by the two Opposing Drives: libido, the life/sex drive; and Thanatos, the death drive -- and their opposing means of expression, pleasure versus pain...

Maybe their obsession with the two opposing forces makes them unstable??

I think you see power struggles in insecure Scorps - analogous to any of the nutty things Virgos do when they're uncertain. For example, Virgos tend to plan things to the nth degree to eliminate uncertainty, and therefore worry. Maybe a Scorp who's not sure how they feel about you, or how you feel about them, would resort to power games to alleviate the nervous energy...

- - - - -

So... Do you Scorps feel this inner struggle between opposing forces? Does that create fear? Is that what makes y'all so secretive?

C'mon! Open up for once, and let us peek inside that heart of darkness...

~DyarStra?e

"Maybe a Scorp who's not sure how they feel about you..."

Nuh-uh...a scorp always knows how he/she feels about you

"...or how you feel about them"

this ^^^ is what you should be focusing on

"Does that create fear?"

Yes

"Is that what makes y'all so secretive?"

They're not secretive....they're just vocally challenged so they dont talk much.

You stuggle with your scorpio woman sounds almost the same as my single with my ex scorp.

I will add more later, I have to think on this ...

jackdoniel,

Thank you for your response!

Here's the paradox for Virgo: To "plunge in" we have to trust you, and know that you trust us... Scorps don't trust easily, and sometimes read Virgo's reluctance to plunge in as a lack of trust or a lack of trustworthiness ~~~~~ & on & on & on & on!

No offense, but compared to Virgs, y'all are unstable -- BUT THAT'S OK!! Imagine a world of nothing but Virgo accountants, engineers, and statisticians -- shit! How boring! We all need the excitement. We need y'all to plumb those emotional depths that the rest of us avoid -- yep! It's much safer on the beach than in the deep water!

This Virgo is just trying to understand that emotional dimension, because it is truly foreign to us -- a different language that is harder for us to learn than pure logic.

Thanks again for your thoughtful answer.

newbie: Nuh-uh...a scorp always knows how he/she feels about you...

True enough. But they seem less certain as to what they Think about you.

F-A,

Yeah, I'm a lucky SOB married to a remarkable Scorpio woman. I could write a dissertation on her, but what's the point? It would be out of date before the ink was dry...

I've seen the "inner struggle" in my younger brother, my original daughter, and now my wife. Scorps are strong, in that they'll face emotional turbulence that I won't / can't. But... their egos are fragile. A cynical Virgo could wreck a Scorp's mind. I've - unintentionally!! - hurt my Scorp's feelings way more often than she's hurt mine.

I think Earth Signs can bring stability and peace of mind to Water Signs, and Water can loosen up Earth (turn dry, unproductive ground into a garden) -- if each loves, trusts and respects the other... and accepts their obvious differences.

F-A: And if you expect others to trust YOU, you've gotta learn to trust them or someone has gotta make the first move, otherwise you have a stalemate.

Yeah, Debra & I really had to work on the Trust -- I attributed most of it to her weasel ex-husband, but now I see that it's part of her nature.

What Jack seems to be saying as poetic as it may sound is that you need to dive in and give the scorpio full control...cuz he's pretty much asking you to blindly dive into their realm...or for you to give him your hand aka give him control to lead you into his realm.

I'm sorry but for anyone who wants to remain sane, that's a big NO NO. I'd rather he stays in his own personal hell thankyou very much. There are other less crazy ways of understanding a scorpio.

In fact, I'll leave the diving into the murky depths to the water signs. Let them dare to do so and come out just as psychotic.

As for living peacefully with a scorpio...haha...hands up anyone who has led a drama-free existence with one.

newbie: "...hands up anyone who has led a drama-free existence with one."

:: DY raises right hand! ::

Oh puhlease dyar...you wouldnt be here posting your questions, trying to understand...so be honest with yourself.

You'd be giving the answers instead...so kid me not.

newbie: ...so kid me not.

No kidding! No drama with my Scorp. She has yet to fake an emotion to get a rise outta me -- can't say the same for my Libra first wife.

Debra's emotions are genuine, and are the ways she expresses them.

FA I totally understand what you're talking about cuz Jason is a triple scorpio...and he leans on me a lot. I have to be that calming force for him and it's exhausting sometimes.

He's been there for me...I'll give him that, but he's an unpredictable force of emotions. I used to think he just clung to me cuz no other woman would want him once they got past his obvious good looks...but he really uses me as his rock...or a stable force.

Scorpio may be stable in terms of water...but they sure are a friggin mess when it comes to earth.

F-A: I ultimately feel that there's something very unbalanced with her, and that a lot of her intensity and energy can be negative or in the wrong place.

Yes... I see that, too...

"I think Earth Signs can bring stability and peace of mind to Water Signs, and Water can loosen up Earth (turn dry, unproductive ground into a garden) -- if each loves, trusts and respects the other... and accepts their obvious differences."

on the money here, for me at least...except you really can't accept something that you'll never learn about, unless of course you are a big picture kind of person

newbie: Scorpio may be stable in terms of water...but they sure are a friggin mess when it comes to earth.

But to be fair: Earth is constipated from the Water point of view!

Anyway, I think it's great that some Scorps have chimed-in on this thread -- you know how us Virgs like to examine multiple data points (how's that for poetic / romantic language??)...

"But to be fair: Earth is constipated from the Water point of view!"

Dyar, I have no problem understanding scorpios or being emotionally connected to them. I tune into them so easily and I'm an earth sign. I'm just not neurotic.

F-A: ...who does that for them?

ANSWER: Other Earth Signs. I got my VirDad to keep me grounded.

They always seem to have to be very self-reliant and self-regenerative...

Ah! That's the benefit of having a real Water Girl at home -- and we're definitely a fertile couple!

newbie: Dyar, I have no problem understanding scorpios or being emotionally connected to them.

Uh-huh... and I'm the King of Siam...

"Uh-huh... and I'm the King of Siam..."

LOL...have you ever seen me here asking for answers about a scorpio I dont understand? Hon, I've been involved in relationship counselling...many involving scorpios...and I've helped quite a number of women, mostly, trying to save or understand their scorpio relationships....so yeah...you be the King of Siam...but I know who I am and what I can do.

And what is it with this whole "I'm a scorpio and I'm so deep". Every single sign is capable of the same depth of love. Scorpios just dont know how to express it verbally...that is all it is.

Are you gonna tell me that an aries or a libra or a capricorn that loves you deeply doesnt love you as "deeply" as a scorpio can? That's just bullcrap.

newbie: LOL...have you ever seen me here asking for answers about a scorpio I dont understand?

Are you married to a Scorp? Got a Scorp brother? Got a Scorp daughter?

Each of us experiences others in our own way. My experience with my Scorpio wife is totally unlike anything I've ever experienced with a woman -- the emotional depth is beyond description, and obviously beyond my understanding, which is why I'm here...

sh: Scorpios can teach a Virgo to not fear death but instead a life without adventure! And Virgo helps a Scorp not to take it too far.

Yes! It can be a mutually beneficial arrangement (more romantic talk).

Well dyar...I've been with a scorp for 20 years...I have a scorp father...twin scorp daughters...I have scorp rising...need I go on?

... and yet, your experience with Scorps is different from mine...

"Who said that, where you getting that from?"

This whole I'm a scorpio and I need someone to be soooo deep cuz I'm soooo deep....that keeps being mentioned over and over again.

All I can say is scorpios are not complicated to me...they are pretty simple...granted they can try and confuse people...but they dont confuse me.

OK newbie, I'm glad you've got 'em all figured out.

I understand my wife's Mind much better than I understand her Heart. From my vantage point, I see internal emotional struggles that I labelled "impulsive" before I knew her better. I think her ability to make quick decisions is a positive outcome, but I suspect the down side is the instability.

"Just curious, are any of the scorps you know operating at the Eagle or Phoenix level?"

You know the legend of the phoenix, right pluto? There is always only one phoenix living on earth at any one time?

I have come across a LOT of scorps in my life...doing what I do...and the basic nature is always the same...no matter how you try and sugar coat it.

I let those that search for their elusive eagles and phoenix keep searching...I'll stick to reality.

"OK newbie, I'm glad you've got 'em all figured out."

All I'm saying dyar is that you're not gonna find me asking about a scorpio and what he meant by this or that...I simply dont need to. Call it me figuring them out or whatever you want...but I just dont need to. Simple.

"Reality is like sooooo not deep, newbie."

LOL...what can I say? I'm practical...I'm an earth sign after all.

F-A: We're all human beings and spirits, and we're all at different levels based upon who we are and where we've been...Not because of what sign we are.

From a psychological POV, I agree with you. But if we give astrology any creedence on this astrology forum, then we should agree that each Sign has its own particular characteristics. Emotional depth is a Scorpio quality. I know in my own life that Scorpios are much more about "feelings" than us Virgos. I see emotional turmoil in the Scorps I know, and I suspect the causes, but it's better for me to have the Scorps offer up their own explanations...

"I see emotional turmoil in the Scorps I know, and I suspect the causes, but it's better for me to have the Scorps offer up their own explanations..."

And their explanation is...cuz they're sooooo deep....and you'll just never get that depth. Hopefully now paradoxically, you'll "get" it.

"Well dyar...I've been with a scorp for 20 years...I have a scorp father...twin scorp daughters...I have scorp rising...need I go on?"

Can't teach newb anything. She knows it all.... 😉

And she's stubborn enough to front it.

"And she's stubborn enough to front it."

I have a weapon and I'm not afraid to use it 😉

F-A: It is this very superior attitude that I feel is the core downfall of the Scorpio when it comes to actually relating to others.

I haven't witnessed arrogance in the 3 Scorps I know best. My younger brother used to follow me around to the point I'd fuss at him about it. My original daughter (pre-Twins) is a confident young lady, but she's not arrogant. My wife is sweet as she can be - even when she's picking at me about my schedules and spreadsheets...

F-A,

I agree that everyone has feelings and emotional depth. I will contend that Water Signs see things more through an emotional lens than Earth Signs do. Doesn't make one a weepy sot, and the other a stodgy sod.

I understand my fellow Virgos. What I seek now is an understanding of the Scorpions in my life.

newbie may think they're full of crap, and you may think they're full of themselves, but I totally disagree. I think they deal with life differently. I think they internalize just like us Virgs, but it's a different type of inner life -- with vastly different demons.

F-A: I constantly here the same things from Scorpios: that they feel more, they are more intense, their experiences and how they process things are more intense/extreme...yadda yadda than other signs...

OK... so Virgos aren't better nit-pickers and critics than people from other Signs?

F-A: If anything, what I hear and what I actually experience don't add up.

Yes! That's why I started this thread: To try & get these Scorps to open up about themselves...

Us non-Scorps can vent all day about how many angels will fit on the head of a pin, but I want the angels themselves to speak...

I've written before about my wife's inability to explain some of the things she says or does. She's not being obtuse. She honestly cannot put the process into words. I'm the exact opposite. Ask me why I did something, and I can explain it in great (lengthy!) detail...

Referring back to astrology: Is it simply Mercury vs. Mars? Is it Virgo's internal debate versus Scorpio's warring passions??

F-A: I think I gave a very good example of this when I made the point about a group in a third world country experiencing the same conditions.

And I agree with your point - you made your case for me.

Now, let's see if we can get the Scorps to offer up something we haven't heard or read before...

F-A: I mean honestly, I don't think some of that's possible because you can't legitimately really see into the mind of another person to know what they're actually thinking.

... or, Feeling.

Maybe those feelings don't have an equivalent in words??

F-A: I think part of why they can't explain things is in part b/c they have't done enough self-analysis.

Then, we can help them here! If any Sign in the Zodiac can analyze...

I am not unstable, although it may appear this way on the surface. I fear being fearful. And once again, I am not secretive. Secrets imply a fear of some thing, in my book. I may be reserved or private, but not secretive.

SS: I may be reserved or private, but not secretive.

Then you're not a Scorpio! JK!! JK!! JK!!

I'm not a neurotic nit-picker, but I am a Virgo - as anyone who knows me in the real world would gladly swear to!

The Scorps I know are both secretive... and suspicious of others.

Yea, that's why I often prefer to write than to speak. When I speak, sometimes I don't make any sense. And ppl are looking at me like, "wait, whaaat?" haha I am far from being eloquent. It all makes sense in my head though. It's just difficult to explain, and so it seems as though I don't know what I'm talking about.

F-A: ...doesn't mean I'm wrong either.

No, it doesn't. But some facts are hard to come by. Like: What is art? I sure as shit don't know! I know what I like, but my Scorp will roll her eyes, and pick at me for a room full of squares, rectangles, and circles (I decorated my study and workshop at our country home) -- while her rooms are just too loud for my tastes...

It's hard to quantify feelings. It seems equally hard for Scorps to put any tangible words to those intangible states...

SS: It's just difficult to explain, and so it seems as though I don't know what I'm talking about.

THAT sounds like my wife...

... and that's why she won't debate me.

Thanks!

I don't debate. I didn't do it in school unless I could write all of my points down first. That is the only way I win. The older I get though, the better I am with verbal expression and thinking on my toes, so to speak.

The other reason I don't argue with ppl is because I am right most of the time. So really, what's the point? In the end, you will still be wrong. 🙂

There I disagree with you. I think Scorpios take feelings more seriously than Virgos (my wife would "Amen!" that statement). Because they do, their warring passions have a more serious effect on them, and that's what I'm trying to get an insight into with this thread...

SS: In the end, you will still be wrong.

THAT also sounds like my wife!