scorpchick76
@scorpchick76
13 Years
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Have I completely lost Taurus male?
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this past week has been enlightening in so many ways
I've finally opened my eyes to how broken he truly is
I've realised that I've lost myself more than I thought and haven't been helping - being trying to hold on too tight to us to keep it working not realising that I was in fact helping us fall apart
I found out even though he said he had just thought up moving out he'd been actively looking already and lied to me about it
(shared computer)
I read some correspondence between him and a girl-friend of his (that I've never trusted - scorpio intuition or something) that completely shocked me - stuff where he said I was in denial about us and that there are things that would never work (she was telling him that him and I are too uncompatible) and him saying that no one has ever cared for him like I have and that he has time for me but I can't have his heart... she telling him that his love is lost on me and that he can't stay with me just because he feels guilty or pity for me because (her words) I bullied him into dating me to start
I spend a few days reflecting and:
- decide to befriend this girl partially because we have the same social circles but also because she's a big part of taurus's life (and sphere of influence it seems)
-decide to let go of the 'relationship' which is freeing in so many ways, like a weight was lifted from me - knowing there is nothing to lose anymore makes enjoying the day to day so much more stressfree and light hearted
-tell him that we have 3 weeks til we becomes him and I because I was tired of seeing his sad eyes from knowing that he was about to hurt me - he was feeling guilt while still going through the motions with me - asked him that in this time we should live like we only have 30 days left in our lives and he agrees (we have a trip together planned which we'll be back from at the end of 3 weeks hence the continuation)
so that's where we are at now... this girl is encouraging the Taurus to chat up her friend and then to go out and screw around once he's done with me. I see the conflict in this boy - I have seen his tears and vulnerability which he masks so well, I know he is broken and fear that he's going to go back to numbing himself rather than finding himself which is what he so truly wants but doesn't know how to get - I also accept it's his journey to take
I guess I'm writing all this to wonder aloud if there is a possibility of a future with us one day - though I know that there is no answer...
I've finally opened my eyes to how broken he truly is
I've realised that I've lost myself more than I thought and haven't been helping - being trying to hold on too tight to us to keep it working not realising that I was in fact helping us fall apart
I found out even though he said he had just thought up moving out he'd been actively looking already and lied to me about it
(shared computer)
I read some correspondence between him and a girl-friend of his (that I've never trusted - scorpio intuition or something) that completely shocked me - stuff where he said I was in denial about us and that there are things that would never work (she was telling him that him and I are too uncompatible) and him saying that no one has ever cared for him like I have and that he has time for me but I can't have his heart... she telling him that his love is lost on me and that he can't stay with me just because he feels guilty or pity for me because (her words) I bullied him into dating me to start
I spend a few days reflecting and:
- decide to befriend this girl partially because we have the same social circles but also because she's a big part of taurus's life (and sphere of influence it seems)
-decide to let go of the 'relationship' which is freeing in so many ways, like a weight was lifted from me - knowing there is nothing to lose anymore makes enjoying the day to day so much more stressfree and light hearted
-tell him that we have 3 weeks til we becomes him and I because I was tired of seeing his sad eyes from knowing that he was about to hurt me - he was feeling guilt while still going through the motions with me - asked him that in this time we should live like we only have 30 days left in our lives and he agrees (we have a trip together planned which we'll be back from at the end of 3 weeks hence the continuation)
so that's where we are at now... this girl is encouraging the Taurus to chat up her friend and then to go out and screw around once he's done with me. I see the conflict in this boy - I have seen his tears and vulnerability which he masks so well, I know he is broken and fear that he's going to go back to numbing himself rather than finding himself which is what he so truly wants but doesn't know how to get - I also accept it's his journey to take
I guess I'm writing all this to wonder aloud if there is a possibility of a future with us one day - though I know that there is no answer...
You are trying to fix someone, you need to realize that you can`t push him to be fixed because you have feelings for him...He is a man and needs to take care of himself before he can start any form of relationship and the more you hold onto him the more he is going to want to escape. Hope the best for you : )
Let him go... YOU are not getting anything that YOU need from this relationship... you cannot help him by being there for him... so help him by NOT being there.
Thanks Jess... I am in fact no longer trying to hold on (that was my mistake for a while and probably why we got to this point now) and I'm not trying to fix him hence my note about it being his journey to take. I guess my only recourse is to be here for him as he finds himself if he wants/ needs me to be (though he truly struggles with letting anyone help him) - it's times like these that I hate being an evolved scorp as I can see his beauty and in many ways what he needs to do to get there (been there done that) but he has to experience it on his own in his own time which just makes me sad yet also maybe hopeful of the possibility that our paths might cross again given that we are ending in a good place...
Question though - any idea why he seems to have this mean streak about me when he talks to this other friend of his and yet he is still tender and close to me in my presence? Any why his attention seems to be so easily drawn to others even though we're barely even over yet (I guess we might be in his head)? Could he be that easily swayed by others opinions?
BTW - his chart:
Sun Taurus 27.50
Moon Libra 13.00
Mercury Taurus 3.47
Venus Gemini 26.30
Mars Leo 16.28
Jupiter Cancer 6.29
Saturn Leo 24.09
Uranus Scorpio 13.48 R
Neptune Sagittarius 17.28 R
Pluto Libra 14.16 R
and if anyone is good with compatibility here's mine...
Sun Scorpio 11.29
Ascendant Capricorn 13.44
Moon Aries 6.52
Mercury Scorpio 9.14
Venus Sagittarius 17.06
Mars Scorpio 17.51
Jupiter Taurus 28.03 R
Saturn Leo 16.20
Uranus Scorpio 7.44
Neptune Sagittarius 12.32
Pluto Libra 12.45
Lilith Taurus 11.01
Asc node Scorpio 3.30
Question though - any idea why he seems to have this mean streak about me when he talks to this other friend of his and yet he is still tender and close to me in my presence? Any why his attention seems to be so easily drawn to others even though we're barely even over yet (I guess we might be in his head)? Could he be that easily swayed by others opinions?
BTW - his chart:
Sun Taurus 27.50
Moon Libra 13.00
Mercury Taurus 3.47
Venus Gemini 26.30
Mars Leo 16.28
Jupiter Cancer 6.29
Saturn Leo 24.09
Uranus Scorpio 13.48 R
Neptune Sagittarius 17.28 R
Pluto Libra 14.16 R
and if anyone is good with compatibility here's mine...
Sun Scorpio 11.29
Ascendant Capricorn 13.44
Moon Aries 6.52
Mercury Scorpio 9.14
Venus Sagittarius 17.06
Mars Scorpio 17.51
Jupiter Taurus 28.03 R
Saturn Leo 16.20
Uranus Scorpio 7.44
Neptune Sagittarius 12.32
Pluto Libra 12.45
Lilith Taurus 11.01
Asc node Scorpio 3.30
Scorpchick - you have ALOT of scorpio in your chart. These posts raise alot of questions for me...
The primary one being - how the hell are you not in sting mode after he's betrayed you to another woman like this? And the lies? Seems to me this would be unforgivable to most scorps. I mean I like the befriending his girl part - that sounds like some mafioso "keep your enemies close" shit. But how are you so calm and mature about this? Towards both of them? If I were a woman, I woudl be scrutinizing the hell out of the female relationships with men who have Venus in Gemini. I have this and we tend get ourselves into alot of trouble with our "girl-friends" and could use some accountability.
Anyway, I commend you for being so selfless and caring. Sounds like you're releived to get out of relationship status as you realize you can't fix him so I don't see any major codependancy going on here. The intimacy issue was surprising. I have Mars in Leo and regular intimacy is super important to me. But then you mentioned he had lost a baby previously and ties it to that? That's heavy and its great that you were understanding there.
I'm sure you've helped heal him alot already and it sounds like you know what you're doing. You wrote:
"any idea why he seems to have this mean streak about me when he talks to this other friend of his and yet he is still tender and close to me in my presence? Any why his attention seems to be so easily drawn to others even though we're barely even over yet (I guess we might be in his head)? Could he be that easily swayed by others opinions?"
I'd put my money on Venus in Gemini being at least partly responsible for these seeminly non-Taurean behaviors.
The primary one being - how the hell are you not in sting mode after he's betrayed you to another woman like this? And the lies? Seems to me this would be unforgivable to most scorps. I mean I like the befriending his girl part - that sounds like some mafioso "keep your enemies close" shit. But how are you so calm and mature about this? Towards both of them? If I were a woman, I woudl be scrutinizing the hell out of the female relationships with men who have Venus in Gemini. I have this and we tend get ourselves into alot of trouble with our "girl-friends" and could use some accountability.
Anyway, I commend you for being so selfless and caring. Sounds like you're releived to get out of relationship status as you realize you can't fix him so I don't see any major codependancy going on here. The intimacy issue was surprising. I have Mars in Leo and regular intimacy is super important to me. But then you mentioned he had lost a baby previously and ties it to that? That's heavy and its great that you were understanding there.
I'm sure you've helped heal him alot already and it sounds like you know what you're doing. You wrote:
"any idea why he seems to have this mean streak about me when he talks to this other friend of his and yet he is still tender and close to me in my presence? Any why his attention seems to be so easily drawn to others even though we're barely even over yet (I guess we might be in his head)? Could he be that easily swayed by others opinions?"
I'd put my money on Venus in Gemini being at least partly responsible for these seeminly non-Taurean behaviors.
Thanks TLS... I think that I can be calm and rational because I've spent a lot of time getting to know me and know that blame doesn't entirely fall on others. Our energies all feed from each other on this earth and it's so easy to make up justifications for things that just are - things. We spin stories trying to find meaning when in fact we will never know true intent so we just have to be ourselves and let go. I have also through experience and time learned that 'sting mode' doesn't really have any positive outcome other than us scorps being left on our own, sure it's a safe place but not a place for life to be lived.
The thing here - once I let go of trying to 'save' this relationship it suddenly got a lot easier for me... I wasn't trying to hold on to something and I could just enjoy now rather than suffer through trying to figure out what the future might bring. Even now I don't know and though there are times I struggle with wanting the answers I pull myself back into the present and just be.
What's funny too in all this is that now that I have pulled back he is in fact coming more to me and hasn't been chatting with this 'friend' as much. In some way I feel like my emotions/ energy between us drove him to her (and is why he said all this things - she's not really a positive influence at all). It is beyond me to try and control his actions and choices, he has to live with those but yesterday - he called me his best friend. I think the negativity towards others about me might stem from the negative energy between him and I?
Can you tell me more about Gemini in Venus and what this means? Is he always going to be back and forth on things? What all of this stirring of stuff because we both just had strong influences upon us from the lunar eclipse?
The thing here - once I let go of trying to 'save' this relationship it suddenly got a lot easier for me... I wasn't trying to hold on to something and I could just enjoy now rather than suffer through trying to figure out what the future might bring. Even now I don't know and though there are times I struggle with wanting the answers I pull myself back into the present and just be.
What's funny too in all this is that now that I have pulled back he is in fact coming more to me and hasn't been chatting with this 'friend' as much. In some way I feel like my emotions/ energy between us drove him to her (and is why he said all this things - she's not really a positive influence at all). It is beyond me to try and control his actions and choices, he has to live with those but yesterday - he called me his best friend. I think the negativity towards others about me might stem from the negative energy between him and I?
Can you tell me more about Gemini in Venus and what this means? Is he always going to be back and forth on things? What all of this stirring of stuff because we both just had strong influences upon us from the lunar eclipse?
The lunar eclipse - not sure how much that would affect *him* so much, but seems like your experience is right in line with it - corruption being exposed, secrets coming out, a cutting away of the negative in your life, letting go of the past, etc. That's what this lunar eclipse in scorp is supposed to be all about....Doesn't sound like he's on the same path to me, but then again, maybe your relationship is bad for both of you. You'd have to elaborate on the ways you think you impacted him negatively - if you see any.
You wrote: "What's funny too in all this is that now that I have pulled back he is in fact coming more to me and hasn't been chatting with this 'friend' as much."
>>>Very typical male Taurean behavior here. When bulls are attached and the person we love pulls back, it shocks us, makes us realize how strong the connection was, that we may have been taking them for granted, etc. Sometimes shaking things up with a bull that is taking advantage or too one-sided is the best thing to do for the relationship. Keep the friendship - make it a real friendship - and over time as he heals more fully this may grow into something amazing. I'm sure you've read about bulls and scorpions on alot fo the sites; definitely a very powerful connection.
Gemini in Venus people need alot of stimulation mentally - flirting, conversation, joking, etc. - if that wanes, we can tend to seek it elsewhere. And really, because we are so connective through the mind, you have to watch for those "girl friends" because that kind of super close mental connection with another female is kind of how we connect in love. If I dated a girl with this I'd be fairly uncomfortable if she had close guy friends. My close girl friends at work that I've had always tend to become more than that. Feelings develop. When they are not there, I miss them or start to think about them romantically etc. So I've had to be real clear with partners I've had about the kind of stimulation I need. I need them to keep that flirtation and verbal communication alive - like we always have in the beginning. Can't just veg out and watch TV every night ignoring each other, etc. (even though my inner bull wants to do this).
You wrote: "What's funny too in all this is that now that I have pulled back he is in fact coming more to me and hasn't been chatting with this 'friend' as much."
>>>Very typical male Taurean behavior here. When bulls are attached and the person we love pulls back, it shocks us, makes us realize how strong the connection was, that we may have been taking them for granted, etc. Sometimes shaking things up with a bull that is taking advantage or too one-sided is the best thing to do for the relationship. Keep the friendship - make it a real friendship - and over time as he heals more fully this may grow into something amazing. I'm sure you've read about bulls and scorpions on alot fo the sites; definitely a very powerful connection.
Gemini in Venus people need alot of stimulation mentally - flirting, conversation, joking, etc. - if that wanes, we can tend to seek it elsewhere. And really, because we are so connective through the mind, you have to watch for those "girl friends" because that kind of super close mental connection with another female is kind of how we connect in love. If I dated a girl with this I'd be fairly uncomfortable if she had close guy friends. My close girl friends at work that I've had always tend to become more than that. Feelings develop. When they are not there, I miss them or start to think about them romantically etc. So I've had to be real clear with partners I've had about the kind of stimulation I need. I need them to keep that flirtation and verbal communication alive - like we always have in the beginning. Can't just veg out and watch TV every night ignoring each other, etc. (even though my inner bull wants to do this).
TLS- I've come to realize that in losing myself in this relationship I was basically being the yes girl- basically being 'too easy'/ accessible for him and not making him work for it/ have time to realize what life would be like without me (not hard a hard place to fall to given we live together). Over the past week I've flipped my perspective and have found me again (I'm sure he's completely confused about the inconsistency there - before and after) and I'm being more selfish/ putting my needs first. Is this enough?
I have stated to him that our relationship will look different when we return from our trip but haven't defined explicitly how though have realized that he's not as actively pursuing a new place to live anymore though I do believe his 'negative' friend still reminds him of the fact that I'm not right for him. What should I do? Anything? Anyway to turn his focus that's drifted back onto me? I cant tell him to stay away from these other girl-friends as that would push him right back to them (especially since he finds his self-worth there in them)
So how do i shift the dynamic back to him and I and maybe even us? don't get me wrong, I've given up on the expectation if an us that's not to say I don't want it (there is or at least was a lot if good) and so I'd like to try to get back to that. Any thoughts? Stop pursuing him and making his life easy? Let him keep coming to me? How would this resonate in day to day activities?
It all seems like game playing in some form but also seems to be the only way? Be me and be happy and see what happens I guess? Yes, I realize I'm not entirely making sense or being consistent (blame my conflicting Venus/ mars signs)
I have stated to him that our relationship will look different when we return from our trip but haven't defined explicitly how though have realized that he's not as actively pursuing a new place to live anymore though I do believe his 'negative' friend still reminds him of the fact that I'm not right for him. What should I do? Anything? Anyway to turn his focus that's drifted back onto me? I cant tell him to stay away from these other girl-friends as that would push him right back to them (especially since he finds his self-worth there in them)
So how do i shift the dynamic back to him and I and maybe even us? don't get me wrong, I've given up on the expectation if an us that's not to say I don't want it (there is or at least was a lot if good) and so I'd like to try to get back to that. Any thoughts? Stop pursuing him and making his life easy? Let him keep coming to me? How would this resonate in day to day activities?
It all seems like game playing in some form but also seems to be the only way? Be me and be happy and see what happens I guess? Yes, I realize I'm not entirely making sense or being consistent (blame my conflicting Venus/ mars signs)
Thanks for your insight Robyn though I'm not sure he has actually decided about not wanting me at all. Personally I think he struggles to understand what it is he does need (his words) and he's often conflicted it seems between who he is and what others expect him to be (I'm done with expectations).
I also don't really think its all or nothing just as there are two people in every relationship that are part of the good and the bad. He is going to be in my life in some form, we play in too many of the same social circles for it to be any other way - as friends or more so forgive me for trying to learn from the situation, to understand the impact my actions had and on how he may be feeling now.
I'm not saying I'm naive enough to think 'it can all work out' just perfectly though a part of me does hope a little. I'm also strong enough to just walk away (now) having released my ties to the overall outcome (my level of attachment to the relationship).
There is still a lot between us that obviously isn't all on here- like his tears and breakdowns when he can't keep up the facade of being strong any more. Or him just sitting with me, comforting me letting my tears fall because my father is in the hospital. Him being my biggest cheerleader! There are still some amazing times between us, a lot of them in fact. And we aren't in a perpetual state of 'deep conversations that are lost on his libra moon' - there have been a couple but not any since I let things go. There has definitely been a perceptible s shift in how he and I relate. And so here we are. It's not that I can't or won't (eventually) let go completely but at the moment I'm just trying to learn (not understand the past) and grow as a person. I'm sure you can't find fault in that.
I also don't really think its all or nothing just as there are two people in every relationship that are part of the good and the bad. He is going to be in my life in some form, we play in too many of the same social circles for it to be any other way - as friends or more so forgive me for trying to learn from the situation, to understand the impact my actions had and on how he may be feeling now.
I'm not saying I'm naive enough to think 'it can all work out' just perfectly though a part of me does hope a little. I'm also strong enough to just walk away (now) having released my ties to the overall outcome (my level of attachment to the relationship).
There is still a lot between us that obviously isn't all on here- like his tears and breakdowns when he can't keep up the facade of being strong any more. Or him just sitting with me, comforting me letting my tears fall because my father is in the hospital. Him being my biggest cheerleader! There are still some amazing times between us, a lot of them in fact. And we aren't in a perpetual state of 'deep conversations that are lost on his libra moon' - there have been a couple but not any since I let things go. There has definitely been a perceptible s shift in how he and I relate. And so here we are. It's not that I can't or won't (eventually) let go completely but at the moment I'm just trying to learn (not understand the past) and grow as a person. I'm sure you can't find fault in that.
Wooowee! That's a lot of polarities in those charts!
In the beginning my Bull told me he didn't want a relationship at all... Due to previous hurts. I kept feeling/seeing signs that made me feel otherwise (some of the same stuff you wrote). It took me talking to the Bull's best friend, and his friend asking me if I wanted to be with the bull. I said, "yes, but he said he doesn't feel the same". His friend said,"yes, he does. He is just scared". A couple of months after that conversation the Bull's brother came into town for a visit and he said to the Bull, "are you guys together, or what?" My Bull did not reply, but told me the next day that he wanted me to be his girlfriend. So.... I believe there is hope, but it depends on a lot of things. Your situation sounds very complicated. I am a Scorpio, by the way. 🙂
Robyn, I'm not trying to change him into what I need... now. I *was* inadvertantly the past few months without even realizing it. In my mind his brokenness wasn't at all broken but just who he was in my eyes - a beautiful person with experience though with him that brokenness was (is?) innate. I have realized this.
What I'm trying to understand/ grasp/ get back to perhaps (is that even possible) is where we were when things were good. Seems like lately there is a lot of (not really sure what) going on with us - the sparkle and lightness and silly affection has disappeared. It comes back in flashes but more often than not there is distance - I can feel all of this really well too as we still live together.
I've realized that we have talked about him moving out and that's in progress (I presume) and I have told him things were going to change - that I need to get back to being me and mostly inferred that we - him and I have to be different though I think mostly that was in response to his comments to this other chick about it being over between us - he had told her those words and seemed to just be waiting for a different set of circumstances (living somwhere else perhaps) to break the news to me though he was full of sad. I told him to let me/ us go so he could stop walking around with the pressure and sadness that seemed to have over taken him.
He seems to think there are some things that make us not compatible but I'm not sure what those are in his mind. We have been great, that's the thing and though we weathered the rough patch and are back to ok we have a long way to get back to that great - if that is at all even possible.
Maybe it's the scorp in me but I don't think things are ever black or white, there are shades and yes he can feel both ways I guess I'm just wondering how much sway would this other chicks influence be on him over the good times/struggles we have had. Is my change in attitude - letting go, not holding on so tight enough to bring things back at least a little. I've noticed recently that the innocent affection seems to have disappeared a little which to me is a HUGE red flag
What I'm trying to understand/ grasp/ get back to perhaps (is that even possible) is where we were when things were good. Seems like lately there is a lot of (not really sure what) going on with us - the sparkle and lightness and silly affection has disappeared. It comes back in flashes but more often than not there is distance - I can feel all of this really well too as we still live together.
I've realized that we have talked about him moving out and that's in progress (I presume) and I have told him things were going to change - that I need to get back to being me and mostly inferred that we - him and I have to be different though I think mostly that was in response to his comments to this other chick about it being over between us - he had told her those words and seemed to just be waiting for a different set of circumstances (living somwhere else perhaps) to break the news to me though he was full of sad. I told him to let me/ us go so he could stop walking around with the pressure and sadness that seemed to have over taken him.
He seems to think there are some things that make us not compatible but I'm not sure what those are in his mind. We have been great, that's the thing and though we weathered the rough patch and are back to ok we have a long way to get back to that great - if that is at all even possible.
Maybe it's the scorp in me but I don't think things are ever black or white, there are shades and yes he can feel both ways I guess I'm just wondering how much sway would this other chicks influence be on him over the good times/struggles we have had. Is my change in attitude - letting go, not holding on so tight enough to bring things back at least a little. I've noticed recently that the innocent affection seems to have disappeared a little which to me is a HUGE red flag
Eris- I'm in big with his whole family already and they love me. At easter his cousin asked where he found me and noted that I was a keeper. I was making in roads there but somewhere since then something has shifted, I didn't react pretty to it though and we had a rough patch that we have gotten beyond, not sure if he's just towing the line now to keep the peace or if we have a chance of getting back to where we were. Knowing the things he's told this other chick though I'm guessing he's well over me which is quite sad. Thoughts?
scorpchick:... and not making him work for it/ have time to realize what life would be like without me (not hard a hard place to fall to given we live together). Over the past week I've flipped my perspective and have found me again (I'm sure he's completely confused about the inconsistency there - before and after) and I'm being more selfish/ putting my needs first. Is this enough?
>>>Best way to treat the bull IMO. I only work at a situation if I have to. If you give it to me, I'll just take it, and expend my energy where it is *needed*. We don't waste energy. And as I've said here before, we will value things more if we have to work for them. To us things worth owning will have a steep cost associated. I buy expensive shit bc I just assume its better.
scorpchick: I cant tell him to stay away from these other girl-friends as that would push him right back to them (especially since he finds his self-worth there in them)
>>>I'm tired so being very short/direct. My advice is tell him you read his s h i t. Tell him he can f u c k off and go be with that other girl he's backstabbing you with. And if he ever realizes how stupid he was to bite the hand that was feeding him, you'll at least get a kick out of listening to him beg. You go cold, he'll get hot. Typical bull gets insanely attached with time, though unaware of how attached, and needs to be reminded of how strong that bond is by having it threatened when he's taking advantage.
So how do i shift the dynamic back to him and I and maybe even us? don't get me wrong, I've given up on the expectation if an us that's not to say I don't want it (there is or at least was a lot if good) and so I'd like to try to get back to that. Any thoughts? Stop pursuing him and making his life easy? Let him keep coming to me? How would this resonate in day to day activities?
>>>you're obviously a tad conflicted about what you want. From what I hear, it really does sound like he needs time. If you want a practical way to give him that time to heal, just become a really good friend to him. Lead the harem. That way you stay close, support him, etc. - and when he's ready to be romantic for real again, you'll be right there *if* you want that. I've done this with women that have broken it off with me, and it was genuine. Was a best friend to them afterwards, they realized they made a huge mistake, and by that time I've usually moved on romantically and am no longer interested. Works out pretty well honestly..
>>>Best way to treat the bull IMO. I only work at a situation if I have to. If you give it to me, I'll just take it, and expend my energy where it is *needed*. We don't waste energy. And as I've said here before, we will value things more if we have to work for them. To us things worth owning will have a steep cost associated. I buy expensive shit bc I just assume its better.
scorpchick: I cant tell him to stay away from these other girl-friends as that would push him right back to them (especially since he finds his self-worth there in them)
>>>I'm tired so being very short/direct. My advice is tell him you read his s h i t. Tell him he can f u c k off and go be with that other girl he's backstabbing you with. And if he ever realizes how stupid he was to bite the hand that was feeding him, you'll at least get a kick out of listening to him beg. You go cold, he'll get hot. Typical bull gets insanely attached with time, though unaware of how attached, and needs to be reminded of how strong that bond is by having it threatened when he's taking advantage.
So how do i shift the dynamic back to him and I and maybe even us? don't get me wrong, I've given up on the expectation if an us that's not to say I don't want it (there is or at least was a lot if good) and so I'd like to try to get back to that. Any thoughts? Stop pursuing him and making his life easy? Let him keep coming to me? How would this resonate in day to day activities?
>>>you're obviously a tad conflicted about what you want. From what I hear, it really does sound like he needs time. If you want a practical way to give him that time to heal, just become a really good friend to him. Lead the harem. That way you stay close, support him, etc. - and when he's ready to be romantic for real again, you'll be right there *if* you want that. I've done this with women that have broken it off with me, and it was genuine. Was a best friend to them afterwards, they realized they made a huge mistake, and by that time I've usually moved on romantically and am no longer interested. Works out pretty well honestly..
Maybe it's the scorp in me but I don't think things are ever black or white, there are shades and yes he can feel both ways I guess I'm just wondering how much sway would this other chicks influence be on him over the good times/struggles we have had. Is my change in attitude - letting go, not holding on so tight enough to bring things back at least a little. I've noticed recently that the innocent affection seems to have disappeared a little which to me is a HUGE red flag
>>>I'm regularly talking to a scorp women involved with a bull and am continually impressed with her insight into his/our nature. Having Venus in Gemini, I often am struggling to even understand how I feel. There are definitely shades - all the time. It is definitely in conflict with that steadfastness and absolutism of the Taurus Sun. From Robyn's chart she has a lot of Taurus so is probably more representative of these aspects of the sign, but your interest is going to be conflicted bc of that venus IMO. What you said about him getting his self-esteem from the harem is very insightful. That's me precisely. If I were you and still trying to maintain the relationship, I'd force a decision - the harem or you. He can't be trusted with these other girls and he knows it. He also expects the same from you. I doubt he would EVER put up with this kind of behavior from you.
>>>I'm regularly talking to a scorp women involved with a bull and am continually impressed with her insight into his/our nature. Having Venus in Gemini, I often am struggling to even understand how I feel. There are definitely shades - all the time. It is definitely in conflict with that steadfastness and absolutism of the Taurus Sun. From Robyn's chart she has a lot of Taurus so is probably more representative of these aspects of the sign, but your interest is going to be conflicted bc of that venus IMO. What you said about him getting his self-esteem from the harem is very insightful. That's me precisely. If I were you and still trying to maintain the relationship, I'd force a decision - the harem or you. He can't be trusted with these other girls and he knows it. He also expects the same from you. I doubt he would EVER put up with this kind of behavior from you.
WOW... SO much to touch on... +1 jessgoogoo, +1 David13, +2 TaurusLovesScorpio and +2 robyn808! Heed their advice, scorpchick76, please. First of all, I concur that this Bull is not ready for you. His heart probably belongs to someone else no matter how much he tries to move on. Which I feel for you bc I loved my Scorpio-Scorpio. Best man I've ever known. And guess who found reasons somehow that he wasn't "right" for me, and lost him. As for the slow progressing relationship... slow and steady wins the race right? He was most likely feeling you out as well as his own capacity for intimate feelings with someone new. Hell, my "Fishtail" and I have known each other 6 months and he was incredibly impatient with my slow pace, but mostly bc of my lack of communication regarding it I'm sure.
Taurus is the material protector (msg for website), it is quite possible you are/were acting like a security blanket and/or jumping off point. Scorpio is the emotional protector. BULLS CAN BE LAZY. Partners who cater to us are not usually optimal bc, knowingly or not, we can take advantage. And if you went ahead and felt you needed to overstep HEALTHY BOUNDARIES of his PERSONAL PRIVACY (you mentioned a shared computer) but everyone has a RIGHT to their own PRIVACY and that should be RESPECTED, even if youdon't agree. In my case, I don't "snoop" bc I'm just afraid of what I'll find. LOL But as TaurusLovesScorpio said, what's done is done.... call the bitch out! (I mean the dude lol) For both me and my ex-fiance Scorpio, infidelity was unforgiveable. PERIOD. Now that's when it becomes grey if there's no real sign of infidelity, and you will have to make the decision what to do with the info and whether whatever actions of his offended you were legitimate to reason why you were snooping. Taureans are about security and having all my eggs in one basket has never been my MO, whether that's a good thing or not. It seems he may have still been deciding, or he didn't know how to communicate adequately enough bc he knew he would hurt your feelings. Speaking solely on my own self-reflections, I am brutally honest; however, if I don't find it pertinent enough to talk to my partner about, I won't. But all they have to do is ask.
If his little touches and affections have ceased, he's done most likely. Taureans are very sensual beings. We love to give and receive little touches and brushes and caresses and smiles, and often "trap" unsuspecting "future exs" with such tactics.
Taurus is the material protector (msg for website), it is quite possible you are/were acting like a security blanket and/or jumping off point. Scorpio is the emotional protector. BULLS CAN BE LAZY. Partners who cater to us are not usually optimal bc, knowingly or not, we can take advantage. And if you went ahead and felt you needed to overstep HEALTHY BOUNDARIES of his PERSONAL PRIVACY (you mentioned a shared computer) but everyone has a RIGHT to their own PRIVACY and that should be RESPECTED, even if youdon't agree. In my case, I don't "snoop" bc I'm just afraid of what I'll find. LOL But as TaurusLovesScorpio said, what's done is done.... call the bitch out! (I mean the dude lol) For both me and my ex-fiance Scorpio, infidelity was unforgiveable. PERIOD. Now that's when it becomes grey if there's no real sign of infidelity, and you will have to make the decision what to do with the info and whether whatever actions of his offended you were legitimate to reason why you were snooping. Taureans are about security and having all my eggs in one basket has never been my MO, whether that's a good thing or not. It seems he may have still been deciding, or he didn't know how to communicate adequately enough bc he knew he would hurt your feelings. Speaking solely on my own self-reflections, I am brutally honest; however, if I don't find it pertinent enough to talk to my partner about, I won't. But all they have to do is ask.
If his little touches and affections have ceased, he's done most likely. Taureans are very sensual beings. We love to give and receive little touches and brushes and caresses and smiles, and often "trap" unsuspecting "future exs" with such tactics.
Also, you are naturally a very jealous person (scorp), am I correct? Befriending his chick friend, although clever, was not innocent I feel? I have found out long ago to stop putting expectations on people, because I was only letting myself down in the end. You are probably correct that you and he need to find your selves as individuals before you can flourish as a couple, and become "assets" to each other, rather than "liabilities" (excuse the reference...
"You can never handle conflict matters very well as you suffer from nervous tension when placed in a confrontation situation or hostility of any kind. Your great sense of balance and harmony constantly protects you from ever go off the deep end. You may have a wide range of emotional responses from rapturous joy when you are happily with a special someone in a solid relationship, to almost going to pieces when you are confronted by hostility and forced to react to it." (his sun-moon combo from site that starts to explain sun-moon combos; msg me for website) You can read about his Venus in Gemini there too which I think you'll find VERY helpful. My Scorpio became TOO mutable to my moods and needs, and I turned out taking him for granted in the end.
And if he has made his mind up that you two are incompatible and voiced that thought, there is an iota of a chance you may change his mind, and that's being generous. We can be some obstinant pains in the butt when we want to be, or in defense of core values in ourselves. Venus rules Taurus, so for me anyway "Life without love is no life at all". Lovers at heart we are. And I'm even MORE fun bc I'm ASC Cancer lol. I have RECENTLY told a/n (ex) beau "You and I will never work out..." and he didn't take me seriously and dammit if I walked my happy ass away. I don't know if it's just me or a Bull thing, but I say what I mean and mean what I say. And, if possible, if I don't have anything nice to say, I don't say anything at all. Which, depending on the person, I stay more quiet than not nowadays. LOL
"I cannot save you, you can't even save yourself....You cannot save me, I can't even save myself"--Stabbing Westward (Taurean, and Scorpio, song writers are rad!) You answered your own questions with the rhetorical statement "Be me and be happy and see what happens I guess?" YOU work on YOU. And Taurean MEN cry more than Taurean women I'm pretty sure. LOL And we tend to be good nurturers/shoulders to cry on etc. Hope is also my fatal flaw bc I too can be so naive. For example, weighing out the "good" and "bad" unequally, just clinging to that little bit of good. Hope is NEVER a bad thing, even if I curse my own frequently. I hope for the best and plan for the worst, but I guess that's a Bull security thing. I commend you for staying positive and taking this opportunity to better yourself and grow as a person! Time will tell. "But I have no concept of time other than it is flying" right? Be patient.
--heather
And if he has made his mind up that you two are incompatible and voiced that thought, there is an iota of a chance you may change his mind, and that's being generous. We can be some obstinant pains in the butt when we want to be, or in defense of core values in ourselves. Venus rules Taurus, so for me anyway "Life without love is no life at all". Lovers at heart we are. And I'm even MORE fun bc I'm ASC Cancer lol. I have RECENTLY told a/n (ex) beau "You and I will never work out..." and he didn't take me seriously and dammit if I walked my happy ass away. I don't know if it's just me or a Bull thing, but I say what I mean and mean what I say. And, if possible, if I don't have anything nice to say, I don't say anything at all. Which, depending on the person, I stay more quiet than not nowadays. LOL
"I cannot save you, you can't even save yourself....You cannot save me, I can't even save myself"--Stabbing Westward (Taurean, and Scorpio, song writers are rad!) You answered your own questions with the rhetorical statement "Be me and be happy and see what happens I guess?" YOU work on YOU. And Taurean MEN cry more than Taurean women I'm pretty sure. LOL And we tend to be good nurturers/shoulders to cry on etc. Hope is also my fatal flaw bc I too can be so naive. For example, weighing out the "good" and "bad" unequally, just clinging to that little bit of good. Hope is NEVER a bad thing, even if I curse my own frequently. I hope for the best and plan for the worst, but I guess that's a Bull security thing. I commend you for staying positive and taking this opportunity to better yourself and grow as a person! Time will tell. "But I have no concept of time other than it is flying" right? Be patient.
--heather
Thanks Heather for the insight... a lot of great things to ponder.
I'm letting go, not specifically of him and I again mostly because a part of me wants to 'be on my best behavior' and see where this all goes and also because I do have a bit of hope, he feels like he's a deep rooted part my my life story (past lives included). Also there's the not so nice side of me that wants to see how he plays this because we have such overlapping lives. I don't want to be the one who looks bad in it all. Part of me however is distancing my heart from him (thankful for my sag venus here). I have to go with conflicted though because we are still having good discussions, not so much about us but about his life and changes he's making (new job and new place to live). Honestly it might have been better had we never moved in together but hindsight is 20/20. He also keeps talking about the future - him and I so who knows, maybe he hasn't totally checked out. Part of me thinks that he's just guarding his heart right now - the affection is still there but it's definitely been muted. Perhaps I've shown him some inconsistency that has his guard up. Not putting all my eggs in that basket just theorizing. You never know, that's all I can go with until it all plays out. Trying to project any stories otherwise aren't going to help. I'm not looking for answers or even solid advice here just using it as a sounding board to understand the other side of things (a little) and to learn for myself. I'm definitely focused more on me though and it's good and there has been a perceptible shift to us both.
I know he is conflicted and don't doubt for a second what Heather said about him feeling both ways equally. He is struggling and unfortunately the only person he is going to for advice these days is his poisonous friend. As for friending her - it's not at all malicious - she is a big part of his life, I'd like to understand why and should have sooner. I am not counting on it for any change to the situation I'm just trying to be a better person and live outside my comfort zone.
I'm letting go, not specifically of him and I again mostly because a part of me wants to 'be on my best behavior' and see where this all goes and also because I do have a bit of hope, he feels like he's a deep rooted part my my life story (past lives included). Also there's the not so nice side of me that wants to see how he plays this because we have such overlapping lives. I don't want to be the one who looks bad in it all. Part of me however is distancing my heart from him (thankful for my sag venus here). I have to go with conflicted though because we are still having good discussions, not so much about us but about his life and changes he's making (new job and new place to live). Honestly it might have been better had we never moved in together but hindsight is 20/20. He also keeps talking about the future - him and I so who knows, maybe he hasn't totally checked out. Part of me thinks that he's just guarding his heart right now - the affection is still there but it's definitely been muted. Perhaps I've shown him some inconsistency that has his guard up. Not putting all my eggs in that basket just theorizing. You never know, that's all I can go with until it all plays out. Trying to project any stories otherwise aren't going to help. I'm not looking for answers or even solid advice here just using it as a sounding board to understand the other side of things (a little) and to learn for myself. I'm definitely focused more on me though and it's good and there has been a perceptible shift to us both.
I know he is conflicted and don't doubt for a second what Heather said about him feeling both ways equally. He is struggling and unfortunately the only person he is going to for advice these days is his poisonous friend. As for friending her - it's not at all malicious - she is a big part of his life, I'd like to understand why and should have sooner. I am not counting on it for any change to the situation I'm just trying to be a better person and live outside my comfort zone.
scorpchick: It all seems like game playing in some form but also seems to be the only way?
>>>>hahahahha....a little off topic to what you were specifically talking about, but this made me laugh...A Scorpio playing games? LOL!...I will just say I have never seen (or been involved in) more games in my entire life than I've seen in my short interaction with a Scorpio woman. It just seems to be innate for you. And its kinda fun, and can get REALLY exciting (!), and if you're winning you feel really powerful and sexy, but then....you crash hard, and it hurts real bad, and you're sad for a while 😢....then somehow things spark back up, you get the upper hand again and there's this huge rush! You feel great all over again, but then....awwww....etc. etc....Its a drug....And I think its called power....
>>>>hahahahha....a little off topic to what you were specifically talking about, but this made me laugh...A Scorpio playing games? LOL!...I will just say I have never seen (or been involved in) more games in my entire life than I've seen in my short interaction with a Scorpio woman. It just seems to be innate for you. And its kinda fun, and can get REALLY exciting (!), and if you're winning you feel really powerful and sexy, but then....you crash hard, and it hurts real bad, and you're sad for a while 😢....then somehow things spark back up, you get the upper hand again and there's this huge rush! You feel great all over again, but then....awwww....etc. etc....Its a drug....And I think its called power....
Haha, it's not about power TLS it's ultimately just about trying to get what you want in the end... I mean isn't the push/pull just a subconscious (mostly) game afterall? What about his to and fro-ing talking/ seeking advice specifically from his poisonous friend - is that not another one - seeking confirmation from someone who we know will give it of what we ultimately want to hear. In the big picture overall, life is just one game though no one actually wins it in the end the best we can do is be happy now.
I just to subconsciously play cat and mouse games. I've come a long way since then especially with opening my heart. I'm not able to be fully present yet with everyone but I'm at least getting better with those in my inner circle. Befriending this girl is my way of trying to expand my abilities to open up and let people see who I truly am, are there other reasons behind it, sure but not the main ones.
Something happened Sunday, specifically after a text from her came through sunday night. I have no idea what it said though he was quick to hide it from me. Since then his demeanor and body language have changed. Guarded, even in his sleep. His body reaches out to touch me but then pulls back. I'm going to see if anything changes over the next few days otherwise I'm going to call it. Until then I'm reflecting his actions back (I know another thread said not to mirror but is there another option?).
I just to subconsciously play cat and mouse games. I've come a long way since then especially with opening my heart. I'm not able to be fully present yet with everyone but I'm at least getting better with those in my inner circle. Befriending this girl is my way of trying to expand my abilities to open up and let people see who I truly am, are there other reasons behind it, sure but not the main ones.
Something happened Sunday, specifically after a text from her came through sunday night. I have no idea what it said though he was quick to hide it from me. Since then his demeanor and body language have changed. Guarded, even in his sleep. His body reaches out to touch me but then pulls back. I'm going to see if anything changes over the next few days otherwise I'm going to call it. Until then I'm reflecting his actions back (I know another thread said not to mirror but is there another option?).
Posted by scorpchick76
Thanks Heather for the insight... a lot of great things to ponder.
I'm letting go, not specifically of him and I again mostly because a part of me wants to 'be on my best behavior' and see where this all goes and also because I do have a bit of hope, he feels like he's a deep rooted part my my life story (past lives included). --shortened-- I'm not looking for answers or even solid advice here just using it as a sounding board to understand the other side of things (a little) and to learn for myself. I'm definitely focused more on me though and it's good and there has been a perceptible shift to us both.
I know he is conflicted and don't doubt for a second what Heather said about him feeling both ways equally. He is struggling and unfortunately the only person he is going to for advice these days is his poisonous friend. As for friending her - it's not at all malicious - she is a big part of his life, I'd like to understand why and should have sooner. I am not counting on it for any change to the situation I'm just trying to be a better person and live outside my comfort zone.
I TOTALLY RESPECT you probing multiple viewpoints to assist you in making your OWN educated decisions. I don't get a good response when I do the same, simply bc Oh! Taurus = stubborn. I always listen, process, and take what I find useful, and leave the rest. So the older I get and more experienced I get, the more dynamic I become in a sense. So we can just say "It gets better and better every day" and MEAN it. I just don't pretend to know, or understand, everything; and learning from those wiser and more experienced than me helps me in becoming a better woman daily. So more power to you girl! Be strong and let HIM come to YOU IF he's worth being with you. Seems like you've put yourself out there and done your best... and our best is all we can do, right?
And if you feel past lives of some sort bind you two together, in even the most broad sense, don't lose touch with him. That doesn't even mean you have to be a part of his life sometimes. But such an amazing, magnetic feeling as such is rare and to be cherished.
And I hope I don't come across rude but your green-eyed monster was showing again 😉
--heather
Life's no game. It's all a big joke 😄 we do the best with what we got and me personally, my one goal in life is just to lead a happy one.
And YES THERE IS ANOTHER OPTION! what do you feel in your gut about Sunday?? I wasn't even there and I'm sensing RED FLAGS.....
--heather
And YES THERE IS ANOTHER OPTION! what do you feel in your gut about Sunday?? I wasn't even there and I'm sensing RED FLAGS.....
--heather
Posted by robyn808
OMG ok, look stop blaming the other chicks. I guarantee you, he is getting the advice that he is looking for. He is presenting his side of the story to be the victim. Idk why, I don't do this shit, I really can't stand it, but I know another Taurus with a leeb moon who will do it all day everyday. And he didn't even have the extra gem and leo to manipulate folks for attention.
He is an awesome, great, creative, beautiful person, but he's just lame in this particular area. So every time he tells me a story, I just start leading the conversations towards accountability. Sometimes he gets there, but it often takes 3 or 4 conversations about it.
You can't force it with a bull, your realize that and your changing your approach but still trying to control the outcome. And that's still forcing to us.
Its soo funny tho, after posting yesterday I got this song stuck in my head... I almost posted it, but I was like nawwww.
+1 robyn808, it comes down to how HE handles it.
Posted by scorpchick76
Eris- I'm in big with his whole family already and they love me. At easter his cousin asked where he found me and noted that I was a keeper. I was making in roads there but somewhere since then something has shifted, I didn't react pretty to it though and we had a rough patch that we have gotten beyond, not sure if he's just towing the line now to keep the peace or if we have a chance of getting back to where we were. Knowing the things he's told this other chick though I'm guessing he's well over me which is quite sad. Thoughts?
Hmm, IDK about the whole conversation with the other chick thing. What I do know is that my Taurus and I did have a time in the beginning where I thought it was over... I felt the distance thing. Your situation sounds pretty complicated... I wish I had more advice for you. :p
Unbulleavable, you are really pretty!
>>>I'm tired so being very short/direct. My advice is tell him you read his s h i t. Tell him he can f u c k off and go be with that other girl he's backstabbing you with. And if he ever realizes how stupid he was to bite the hand that was feeding him, you'll at least get a kick out of listening to him beg. You go cold, he'll get hot. Typical bull gets insanely attached with time, though unaware of how attached, and needs to be reminded of how strong that bond is by having it threatened when he's taking advantage.
^ that sounds like prime advice now that I have thoroughly read all of your messages. 😢
^ that sounds like prime advice now that I have thoroughly read all of your messages. 😢
Thanks everyone... Lots of sound advice here and as always no 'right' answer but its not about being right anyway but rather doing what makes me feel better. Truth is right now he has no respect for me whether he realizes this or not. I am going to write him a letter explaining my pov and may post parts of it here for advice then. The reason for the written and not a verbal conversation is that I've realized that he doesn't hear what I'm actually saying but filters them through this dark place in his mind before understanding which makes him think my sadness and hurt is anger and hate.
Robyn, perfect theme don't for him (and funnily enough the video looks like its mirrored on the city I used to live in). I'm not blaming the other girls, his actions are his own but they are not helping, specifically the one who will agree with his 'I'm the victim' thoughts. Unfortunately he doesn't have a friend like you to hold him accountable/ show him the other viewpoint and I'm not the person he'll listen to on this subject.
I feel at peace with things and with letting go. Sad, but at peace. Hopefully I'll be able to get my words out and perhaps you can provide your advice once more on that one. I am thankful for this space. And regardless of all that I said before this - a part of my heart knew that letting him go was my only recourse as soon as I came here for ''advice"
One other question actually that came to mind this morning - do Taurus's hate it as much as scorps when someone can see who they truly are behind their mask (specifically if they're not ready to show/ acknowledge it)?
Robyn, perfect theme don't for him (and funnily enough the video looks like its mirrored on the city I used to live in). I'm not blaming the other girls, his actions are his own but they are not helping, specifically the one who will agree with his 'I'm the victim' thoughts. Unfortunately he doesn't have a friend like you to hold him accountable/ show him the other viewpoint and I'm not the person he'll listen to on this subject.
I feel at peace with things and with letting go. Sad, but at peace. Hopefully I'll be able to get my words out and perhaps you can provide your advice once more on that one. I am thankful for this space. And regardless of all that I said before this - a part of my heart knew that letting him go was my only recourse as soon as I came here for ''advice"
One other question actually that came to mind this morning - do Taurus's hate it as much as scorps when someone can see who they truly are behind their mask (specifically if they're not ready to show/ acknowledge it)?
It's definitely a work in progress, too long and too much about him rather than me but its what came out on first pass and felt really good to write.
We are broken. Plain and simple. Even on your most hurting days in the past as you tried to push me away your body betrayed your hardened mask in your sleep. Your subconscious over riding your logical fears but this week that has changed. And I can't go on being taken for granted, disrespected and overlooked. I'm standing right in front of you but you no longer see me. I need to walk away.
If you find yourself getting angry over my words know that they only stem from my love for you. What we were was amazing, truly beautiful in its moments when we both let our guards down and bared out souls. Just being us beyond outside influence. Me being me and you being you. You let your guard down in moments but the wall has now been re-erected. Reinforced. These words here are just my truth of it all — find what you need to in them, listen to your heart not your head but don't dismiss them in haste because there's often a lot of truth in what makes us angry. I'm not angry with you.
I'm writing this to you because in the times I??ve needed to converse with you you've come into the conversation on the defensive, your position always right and my words of sadness and hurt were heard as anger and hatred. I could never hate you but I am hurt at the disrespect I've let you treat me with over the past few months. I'm not placing blame I'm just finally ready to let go, where I should have been before this all blew up.
Something happened Sunday - in the text that Holly sent that you couldn't hide fast enough and it was enough to raise all the red flags. Friday was a good day - you (surprisingly) savoured my body, ripped off my clothes and couldn't get enough of me. Saturday was much the same, unbroken touch, sparkling eyes, your echo of my line, —it was a good day??. Sunday - your body withdrew from me and while I can perhaps put one night of it off to being too tired/ sore, it's been three now and you barely reach out to me at all. I do see the conflict though, there are brief moments but you pull back extra quick now. We're putting on an act solely because we share the same space. I can't do it anymore. I'm not being jealous or insecure here, you closed the door this time, silently but with so much force. I can only think that this is the outcome you??ve been searching for
We are broken. Plain and simple. Even on your most hurting days in the past as you tried to push me away your body betrayed your hardened mask in your sleep. Your subconscious over riding your logical fears but this week that has changed. And I can't go on being taken for granted, disrespected and overlooked. I'm standing right in front of you but you no longer see me. I need to walk away.
If you find yourself getting angry over my words know that they only stem from my love for you. What we were was amazing, truly beautiful in its moments when we both let our guards down and bared out souls. Just being us beyond outside influence. Me being me and you being you. You let your guard down in moments but the wall has now been re-erected. Reinforced. These words here are just my truth of it all — find what you need to in them, listen to your heart not your head but don't dismiss them in haste because there's often a lot of truth in what makes us angry. I'm not angry with you.
I'm writing this to you because in the times I??ve needed to converse with you you've come into the conversation on the defensive, your position always right and my words of sadness and hurt were heard as anger and hatred. I could never hate you but I am hurt at the disrespect I've let you treat me with over the past few months. I'm not placing blame I'm just finally ready to let go, where I should have been before this all blew up.
Something happened Sunday - in the text that Holly sent that you couldn't hide fast enough and it was enough to raise all the red flags. Friday was a good day - you (surprisingly) savoured my body, ripped off my clothes and couldn't get enough of me. Saturday was much the same, unbroken touch, sparkling eyes, your echo of my line, —it was a good day??. Sunday - your body withdrew from me and while I can perhaps put one night of it off to being too tired/ sore, it's been three now and you barely reach out to me at all. I do see the conflict though, there are brief moments but you pull back extra quick now. We're putting on an act solely because we share the same space. I can't do it anymore. I'm not being jealous or insecure here, you closed the door this time, silently but with so much force. I can only think that this is the outcome you??ve been searching for
I can only think that this is the outcome you??ve been searching for — an easy out.
If I were to have a superpower based on my life right now it would be my ability to read people, to see beneath the surface of what they are saying, beyond the masks we all wear. Maybe that scared you. I know full well that I breached the gates to your heart, perhaps only briefly but I saw what's inside, the man you yearn to be and the battles you fight within yourself every day — to trust, to feel worthy. I also see the influence others have on you — how you find yourself in the eyes of friends who are similarly broken and run to them for validation of your doubts and fears. Reinforcing your need to be right. On this you can be right, if that serves your purpose but you should also find a mentor, someone who challenges you to look deeper within yourself, to be accountable for your part in it all and to remind you that you deserve to be loved and that you??re the only thing holding you back from that. I love you, have for so long but that was never enough.
I've seen you, the real you from very early on. That's how I knew. I saw your beauty and grace, your compassion and caring. I??ve seen your morals and character and manners. I??ve seen the emotion you try and hide, deflecting with humour and I see the sadness that you walk with now every time we touch. . I??ve seen how the burdens wear you down and the struggle you face as you try and deal with it alone and your fears at losing those around you.
I??ve seen how you find your self-worth in taking care of others, stepping up when needed even though it's not easy. You the play the part, the man who they need you to be, lost in who you truly are. Being there for others is truly noble and your superpower would be just that. But admittedly you've told me that this wears on you, that you yourself are lost, unaware of what it is you need or how to get back to that man that can love again romantically. That man is still you — you have that capability if you just stop sabotaging yourself out of fear of hurt, if you stood in one place long enough to realize it's safe, the grass is not greener on the other side, it's just a place to escape to — the answer is not in running away to something new, in searching different faces for the answers, the answers solely exist within yourself.
The story of you and Elizabeth is vague in my mind and filtered through your lens, the parts you??ve hung
If I were to have a superpower based on my life right now it would be my ability to read people, to see beneath the surface of what they are saying, beyond the masks we all wear. Maybe that scared you. I know full well that I breached the gates to your heart, perhaps only briefly but I saw what's inside, the man you yearn to be and the battles you fight within yourself every day — to trust, to feel worthy. I also see the influence others have on you — how you find yourself in the eyes of friends who are similarly broken and run to them for validation of your doubts and fears. Reinforcing your need to be right. On this you can be right, if that serves your purpose but you should also find a mentor, someone who challenges you to look deeper within yourself, to be accountable for your part in it all and to remind you that you deserve to be loved and that you??re the only thing holding you back from that. I love you, have for so long but that was never enough.
I've seen you, the real you from very early on. That's how I knew. I saw your beauty and grace, your compassion and caring. I??ve seen your morals and character and manners. I??ve seen the emotion you try and hide, deflecting with humour and I see the sadness that you walk with now every time we touch. . I??ve seen how the burdens wear you down and the struggle you face as you try and deal with it alone and your fears at losing those around you.
I??ve seen how you find your self-worth in taking care of others, stepping up when needed even though it's not easy. You the play the part, the man who they need you to be, lost in who you truly are. Being there for others is truly noble and your superpower would be just that. But admittedly you've told me that this wears on you, that you yourself are lost, unaware of what it is you need or how to get back to that man that can love again romantically. That man is still you — you have that capability if you just stop sabotaging yourself out of fear of hurt, if you stood in one place long enough to realize it's safe, the grass is not greener on the other side, it's just a place to escape to — the answer is not in running away to something new, in searching different faces for the answers, the answers solely exist within yourself.
The story of you and Elizabeth is vague in my mind and filtered through your lens, the parts you??ve hung
The story of you and Elizabeth is vague in my mind and filtered through your lens, the parts you??ve hung onto, reinforced into your head as the reasons it all went wrong — the abortion, her mother??s cancer, your grandma??s passing - but I suspect there is much more to the story that you??ve overlooked. Those are merely the events that happened, the tangible acts that you associate with the guilt and fear and your broken heart but if you take the time to sit with it — let it breath into the light of day and dig deeper I'm sure there is much more to the fading out — the feelings that you said started to arrive before all the major events unfolded. I can see similarities with you now, the drifting — keeping things easy, calm when you need to take action — voice your concerns so that they can be acknowledged and addressed, you??re on the other side now though, you closed off your heart long ago when what you truly want is to be loved and appreciated and supported. You chase the ones who don't look back at you though, no wonder you??re conflicted.
So where does this leave us, I don't know. I can't speak for you — this is a journey that you need to take on your own. Your lessons to be learned in time. To grow into the amazing man you want to be — the one you yourself can't even see, who exists already beneath the mask that you wear every day. What you lose in the process will only be revealed in time and right now you??ve lost me. I can't live in the in-between, the back and forth and of being taken for granted. So while we have a few more weeks of being in the same space let's stop putting on the act, let's just be who we are, true to ourselves with honestly and respect.
So where does this leave us, I don't know. I can't speak for you — this is a journey that you need to take on your own. Your lessons to be learned in time. To grow into the amazing man you want to be — the one you yourself can't even see, who exists already beneath the mask that you wear every day. What you lose in the process will only be revealed in time and right now you??ve lost me. I can't live in the in-between, the back and forth and of being taken for granted. So while we have a few more weeks of being in the same space let's stop putting on the act, let's just be who we are, true to ourselves with honestly and respect.
scorp: Haha, it's not about power TLS it's ultimately just about trying to get what you want in the end... I mean isn't the push/pull just a subconscious (mostly) game afterall? What about his to and fro-ing talking/ seeking advice specifically from his poisonous friend - is that not another one - seeking confirmation from someone who we know will give it of what we ultimately want to hear. In the big picture overall, life is just one game though no one actually wins it in the end the best we can do is be happy now.
>>>True true. I am shocked, in interacting with a scorp, how my *own* need for power and my own game-playing has been exposed. Once I felt she was power-tripping or there was any sort of power struggle at all, I started gaming so hard that I soon realized I was possibly more power hungry than her, and I actually hurt her feelings pretty bad. This of course, in turn hurt me. Very sad actually. And that's the state of affairs now - sadness for both I think. I think she brought it out of me though - maybe not intentionally. You scorps are very intimidating to us. We can just sense an inner confidence about you, and the attraction we feel is off the charts scary. The many books I read on taurus/scorp dynamic warned about things devolving into a power struggle like that.
scorp: Something happened Sunday, specifically after a text from her came through sunday night. I have no idea what it said though he was quick to hide it from me. Since then his demeanor and body language have changed. Guarded, even in his sleep. His body reaches out to touch me but then pulls back. I'm going to see if anything changes over the next few days otherwise I'm going to call it. Until then I'm reflecting his actions back (I know another thread said not to mirror but is there another option?).
>>>Very strange and interesting. You scorps and your damn mirroring!!! You are RIDICULOUS!!!! Hahahahah....WHAT THE HELL—? What IS THIS— I have never seen anything like this! It is so calculated and immediate! And hilarious!
>>>True true. I am shocked, in interacting with a scorp, how my *own* need for power and my own game-playing has been exposed. Once I felt she was power-tripping or there was any sort of power struggle at all, I started gaming so hard that I soon realized I was possibly more power hungry than her, and I actually hurt her feelings pretty bad. This of course, in turn hurt me. Very sad actually. And that's the state of affairs now - sadness for both I think. I think she brought it out of me though - maybe not intentionally. You scorps are very intimidating to us. We can just sense an inner confidence about you, and the attraction we feel is off the charts scary. The many books I read on taurus/scorp dynamic warned about things devolving into a power struggle like that.
scorp: Something happened Sunday, specifically after a text from her came through sunday night. I have no idea what it said though he was quick to hide it from me. Since then his demeanor and body language have changed. Guarded, even in his sleep. His body reaches out to touch me but then pulls back. I'm going to see if anything changes over the next few days otherwise I'm going to call it. Until then I'm reflecting his actions back (I know another thread said not to mirror but is there another option?).
>>>Very strange and interesting. You scorps and your damn mirroring!!! You are RIDICULOUS!!!! Hahahahah....WHAT THE HELL—? What IS THIS— I have never seen anything like this! It is so calculated and immediate! And hilarious!
Eris: ^ that sounds like prime advice now that I have thoroughly read all of your messages.
>>>Thx. Still kinda mystified by the lack of stinging. From reading, I'd guess this kind of behavior from her bull would mark the absolute END for a scorp. In talking to another scorp dealing with a bull, the feelings are so strong she say she's treating him like no other man. Starting to think Taurus gets some sort of pass with you guys bc of the polar opposite/attraction thing. Think there's any truth to that?
>>>Thx. Still kinda mystified by the lack of stinging. From reading, I'd guess this kind of behavior from her bull would mark the absolute END for a scorp. In talking to another scorp dealing with a bull, the feelings are so strong she say she's treating him like no other man. Starting to think Taurus gets some sort of pass with you guys bc of the polar opposite/attraction thing. Think there's any truth to that?
scorpchick,
WOW....
Amazing....
Your writing is beautiful, poetic, intuitive, passionate, and courageously vulnerable. It will touch him deeply. Scorpio woman at her best....You definitely see him for who he is. Had to choke back tears reading it. Can't say enough....Really just amazing....
Let us know how it goes over.
WOW....
Amazing....
Your writing is beautiful, poetic, intuitive, passionate, and courageously vulnerable. It will touch him deeply. Scorpio woman at her best....You definitely see him for who he is. Had to choke back tears reading it. Can't say enough....Really just amazing....
Let us know how it goes over.
TLS: >>>Very strange and interesting. You scorps and your damn mirroring!!! You are RIDICULOUS!!!! Hahahahah....WHAT THE HELL—? What IS THIS— I have never seen anything like this! It is so calculated and immediate! And hilarious!
How do you suppose I act? And I'm curious, is this just his way of getting me to end things, dragging us down to the point where I give up and reinforce his self-fulfilling thoughts even more?
I think rather than the letter above I'm just going to let him know that we're broken, that there is huge distance between us and we both need to fight to fix it and see if he will be in the fight with me otherwise I'm out. Thoughts in this approach? He does still keep talking about our future and what not but this might just be for his need to hang on...
Part of me is hopeful that the trip we're taking in two weeks will pull him away from the outside influences here and see what we have but the other part of me thinks it'll be too late by then.
How do you suppose I act? And I'm curious, is this just his way of getting me to end things, dragging us down to the point where I give up and reinforce his self-fulfilling thoughts even more?
I think rather than the letter above I'm just going to let him know that we're broken, that there is huge distance between us and we both need to fight to fix it and see if he will be in the fight with me otherwise I'm out. Thoughts in this approach? He does still keep talking about our future and what not but this might just be for his need to hang on...
Part of me is hopeful that the trip we're taking in two weeks will pull him away from the outside influences here and see what we have but the other part of me thinks it'll be too late by then.
TLS: thank you for those kind words, I really cherish them... It's easier to let go from a place of love than of hate. And he knows I am in love with him.
>>>Thx. Still kinda mystified by the lack of stinging. From reading, I'd guess this kind of behavior from her bull would mark the absolute END for a scorp. In talking to another scorp dealing with a bull, the feelings are so strong she say she's treating him like no other man. Starting to think Taurus gets some sort of pass with you guys bc of the polar opposite/attraction thing. Think there's any truth to that?
I think this *might* have to do with Taurus being the second sign of the zodiac, the child coming into his own... I only want to protect that from harm, ease the burden and help to teach him and in thinking, it has happened with another bull before. No idea but all I want to be is gentle like a great protective hug.
>>>Thx. Still kinda mystified by the lack of stinging. From reading, I'd guess this kind of behavior from her bull would mark the absolute END for a scorp. In talking to another scorp dealing with a bull, the feelings are so strong she say she's treating him like no other man. Starting to think Taurus gets some sort of pass with you guys bc of the polar opposite/attraction thing. Think there's any truth to that?
I think this *might* have to do with Taurus being the second sign of the zodiac, the child coming into his own... I only want to protect that from harm, ease the burden and help to teach him and in thinking, it has happened with another bull before. No idea but all I want to be is gentle like a great protective hug.
How do you suppose I act?
>>>Just do you. I'm just sayin - its crazy. hahahahah...Seriously though, I think you have a pretty good grip on it all actually. Scorp methodology seems to work real well with us actually. It sucks for us kinda, but is really attractive. LOL.
And I'm curious, is this just his way of getting me to end things, dragging us down to the point where I give up and reinforce his self-fulfilling thoughts even more?
>>>That's a very deep psychological question that could be answered from multiple angles. Consciously, I'd say its a definite no. Bulls don't work in complex psychological manipulations like this; more a scorpionic trait IMO. Subconsciously? Sure. Have you done any reading into what's being called "schema therapy" or "lifetrap" reinforcement in psychology? If not, and if you're into astrology and how people's lives are shaped by forces outside their immediate control, you'd be interested (a good treatment is a short book called _Reinventing Your Life_). Anyway, one of the key takeaways from Freudian psychology was that we somehow continually recreate our traumas we experience in early life, and schema psychology is based on this insight somewhat. He's obviously broken but is it all recent? How much do you know about his childhood? If he experienced abandonment at a young age, and has that schema, he will continually manifest behaviors that push people he cares about to abandon him, and recreate his trauma over and over.
I think rather than the letter above I'm just going to let him know that we're broken, that there is huge distance between us and we both need to fight to fix it and see if he will be in the fight with me otherwise I'm out. Thoughts in this approach? He does still keep talking about our future and what not but this might just be for his need to hang on...
>>>I think it would be a HUGE mistake not to share the letter with him. I think it could be transformative and healing for him, and I continually am shocked and disappointed at how reticent scorps are to share their BEAUTIFUL inner emotional world with their partners. Most of the time, I feel if scorps would just talk *to* their partner in the vulnerable ways they will often talk to others about their partner, most of the issues could be healed.
>>>Just do you. I'm just sayin - its crazy. hahahahah...Seriously though, I think you have a pretty good grip on it all actually. Scorp methodology seems to work real well with us actually. It sucks for us kinda, but is really attractive. LOL.
And I'm curious, is this just his way of getting me to end things, dragging us down to the point where I give up and reinforce his self-fulfilling thoughts even more?
>>>That's a very deep psychological question that could be answered from multiple angles. Consciously, I'd say its a definite no. Bulls don't work in complex psychological manipulations like this; more a scorpionic trait IMO. Subconsciously? Sure. Have you done any reading into what's being called "schema therapy" or "lifetrap" reinforcement in psychology? If not, and if you're into astrology and how people's lives are shaped by forces outside their immediate control, you'd be interested (a good treatment is a short book called _Reinventing Your Life_). Anyway, one of the key takeaways from Freudian psychology was that we somehow continually recreate our traumas we experience in early life, and schema psychology is based on this insight somewhat. He's obviously broken but is it all recent? How much do you know about his childhood? If he experienced abandonment at a young age, and has that schema, he will continually manifest behaviors that push people he cares about to abandon him, and recreate his trauma over and over.
I think rather than the letter above I'm just going to let him know that we're broken, that there is huge distance between us and we both need to fight to fix it and see if he will be in the fight with me otherwise I'm out. Thoughts in this approach? He does still keep talking about our future and what not but this might just be for his need to hang on...
>>>I think it would be a HUGE mistake not to share the letter with him. I think it could be transformative and healing for him, and I continually am shocked and disappointed at how reticent scorps are to share their BEAUTIFUL inner emotional world with their partners. Most of the time, I feel if scorps would just talk *to* their partner in the vulnerable ways they will often talk to others about their partner, most of the issues could be healed.
Another *big* reason to share that letter is his Venus in Gemini. We are huge on creative verbal expression in love, and you do it *well*. Being totally sincere here - I was really *moved* by it. There isn't too much that moves me emotionally like that. I know he will be as well.
I guess my reticence comes from the fact that ultimately it's a break up letter and a part if me is struggling to let go thinking what if that is truly all there is for us and ultimately it's my fault for bringing upon this ending...
I think this *might* have to do with Taurus being the second sign of the zodiac, the child coming into his own... I only want to protect that from harm, ease the burden and help to teach him and in thinking, it has happened with another bull before. No idea but all I want to be is gentle like a great protective hug.
>>>>Hahahah...speaking as a (reformed) life-long dater of Cancer females, I can attest to the fact that the bull loves to be mothered, and is really good at drawing that out of women. But you really have to watch out for spoiling, be stern with us when we mess up, make us work hard for your approval, etc. LOL.
I guess my reticence comes from the fact that ultimately it's a break up letter and a part if me is struggling to let go thinking what if that is truly all there is for us and ultimately it's my fault for bringing upon this ending...
>>>I get it. But my instincts tell me he will come charging at you all the more if you drop that on him, with a renewed romantic streak. If he doesn't, just take that s h i t back. Say you didn't mean it....hahahaha!....He is not going to initiate an abrupt ending over that. Because really, its not like you are cold or ditching him; its an expression of your deep love for him and your hurt over the way he's treated you. It needs to be expressed IMO, and I consider it dangerous not to - given what he's done. Just my thoughts on it....
>>>I get it. But my instincts tell me he will come charging at you all the more if you drop that on him, with a renewed romantic streak. If he doesn't, just take that s h i t back. Say you didn't mean it....hahahaha!....He is not going to initiate an abrupt ending over that. Because really, its not like you are cold or ditching him; its an expression of your deep love for him and your hurt over the way he's treated you. It needs to be expressed IMO, and I consider it dangerous not to - given what he's done. Just my thoughts on it....
TLS: >>>That's a very deep psychological question that could be answered from multiple angles. Consciously, I'd say its a definite no. Bulls don't work in complex psychological manipulations like this; more a scorpionic trait IMO. Subconsciously? Sure. Have you done any reading into what's being called "schema therapy" or "lifetrap" reinforcement in psychology? If not, and if you're into astrology and how people's lives are shaped by forces outside their immediate control, you'd be interested (a good treatment is a short book called _Reinventing Your Life_). Anyway, one of the key takeaways from Freudian psychology was that we somehow continually recreate our traumas we experience in early life, and schema psychology is based on this insight somewhat. He's obviously broken but is it all recent? How much do you know about his childhood? If he experienced abandonment at a young age, and has that schema, he will continually manifest behaviors that push people he cares about to abandon him, and recreate his trauma over and over.
I understand this a little and was able to identify/ understand my childhood 'trauma' that kept anyone from getting too close to me for so long. Yes, I can see this in him. While I don't know everything about his childhood I do know that he has a solid family but with a father that though present was and still is a workaholic so while its not traumatic he was seemingly abandoned and as such took on the role if father figure in his family a role he still plays today. We have talked about this a little in theory though I think he needs to find a way to be present with it and feel it and learn to let it go.
I understand this a little and was able to identify/ understand my childhood 'trauma' that kept anyone from getting too close to me for so long. Yes, I can see this in him. While I don't know everything about his childhood I do know that he has a solid family but with a father that though present was and still is a workaholic so while its not traumatic he was seemingly abandoned and as such took on the role if father figure in his family a role he still plays today. We have talked about this a little in theory though I think he needs to find a way to be present with it and feel it and learn to let it go.
What are you implying Robyn? I'd love your perspective on whether to send the letter as TLS suggested or not if you have one.
robyn808: You're Fired!
>>>>>LMAO! That was a bit tongue-in-cheek; I do think she should share the letter and don't think it will end anything though.
>>>>>LMAO! That was a bit tongue-in-cheek; I do think she should share the letter and don't think it will end anything though.
TLS... I appreciate your thoughts greatly especially since your sun/venus are the same as the taurus I'm dealing with though would still appreciate hearing from both Robyn and Heather as they had done good input previously as well.
This got list in the posts above but I'm still curious...
One other question actually that came to mind this morning - do Taurus's hate it as much as scorps when someone can see who they truly are behind their mask (specifically if they're not ready to show/ acknowledge it)?
One other question actually that came to mind this morning - do Taurus's hate it as much as scorps when someone can see who they truly are behind their mask (specifically if they're not ready to show/ acknowledge it)?
Posted by TaurusLovesScorpio
Eris: ^ that sounds like prime advice now that I have thoroughly read all of your messages.
>>>Thx. Still kinda mystified by the lack of stinging. From reading, I'd guess this kind of behavior from her bull would mark the absolute END for a scorp. In talking to another scorp dealing with a bull, the feelings are so strong she say she's treating him like no other man. Starting to think Taurus gets some sort of pass with you guys bc of the polar opposite/attraction thing. Think there's any truth to that?
I am mystified by that, too. The more I read the more I am intrigued by her... She really is dealing with it really well.. especially since he is living under the same roof. Although, she is writing lots of it down. I started doing that recently and realized that all the problems I have been talking to my Bull about are NOT problems I have with him, they are problems I have with me. I also found that if I write letters to him I can decipher which problems are important or insecurities about my own self. I always burn the letters, but it does feel better not keeping that crap in. But if I were her I would give him that letter. I wish I could write like that, then I wouldn`t burn them lol
The Bull I was with before: No pass. He would have had it in a friend way (and maybe someday possibly more), but he was way too pushy The Bull now? I have never let ANYONE in like him. Total pass (as much as a unevolved Scorpio is able to give, anyway)
SEND THE LETTER- If you are like me at all, you will just muck up the words in person :p And besides, it truly was a great letter.
Posted by robyn808
You can't force it with a bull, your realize that and your changing your approach but still trying to control the outcome. And that's still forcing to us.
We can see this with our eyes closed.....
Bull: I said "NO."
Other Person : * Tries it another way...but still wants the same outcome*...."So what if I...."
Bull: *Horns are up....attempting to control anger...will either CHAAAAAAAAARGE...or avoid you at ALL costs, and continue to prod and insist on being left alone.*
The best way to change the mind of a stubborn Bull...
Say Nothing.
DO nothing.
LEAD by example.
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