Intro and Bull/Bull issues

Hello to one and all. I've been reading on this forum for some time and recently just decided to bite the bullet and join. You all seem like a terrific group of people.
I'll try to explain this as briefly as possible.
Divorced Bull hits social site. Sees amazingly attractive male Bull and drops a line. We hit it off fairly quickly, and have talked literally almost nonstop for a year now.
We have talked through good times, and still talking through some very low times, I lost my youngest this summer due to diabetic complications. The worst pain in the world, would wish it on no one. He has stood by me like a rock through every silly joke, every tear and every panic attack.
We call occasionally, chat daily.
Little more history, this Bull is a player. A no-holds barred, unashamedly proud player.
The side he shows the world is charming, roguish and playful. I get all angles of his personality. Warts and all as it were. We are quite comfortable to chat, or not, just knowing the other is there.
I am at a point in my life where I want stability, as well as a partner in all arenas. To say I have fallen for this man is a gross understatement.
Where he stands is a complete and utter mystery. To say he's my friend, that's a given. I'd like more, and I really believe he does as well, but it's a stalemate. We are both there, totally wide open, and it's marvelous. When we do ring the other it's for hours on end. Then he'll clam up and I get weather reports or other general information that really has nothing to do with anything.
He seems to talk less and less. I am certainly no different. I'll be my usual bubbly self as I am every day, or try to be. I am the same, he is not. But he is always there for a 'Good morning'.
I've given him a gift on his birthday, and again for Christmas. Very lovely presents and he was honestly surprised and touched by them. It is in a femme Bull to spoil those we care about as shamelessly as the purse strings will allow.
I am wondering if I came on too strong and he's freaking out. Yes I know Bulls take their time, sometimes a ridiculous amount of time, to make up their minds. But I'd really like to know where I stand without coming off like a harpy.
So, put those Bullish heads together ( and any other signs feel free ) and help a girl out?

She was my deepest treasure, the youngest of 3. Thank you for that.
As to the rest of my placements, I thought I had a chart on the hard drive but I'm not locating it. I shall keep searching for it.

Ahha, I have it. Hope this helps.

Rising sign - 22?? Sagittarius
Sun - 2?? Taurus
Moon - 4?? Aries
Mercury - 27?? Aries
Venus - 29?? Pisces
Mars - 24?? Capricorn
Jupiter - 5?? Sagittarius
Saturn - 22?? Taurus
Uranus - 10?? Libra
Neptune - 2?? Sagittarius
Pluto - 27?? Virgo
N. Node - 20?? Aquarius

And where on earth are my manners? Very pleased to meet you Bella :-)

you sound like my bull and i for the first 2 years of our friendship (pre-relationship). I mean JUST LIKE IT. He was married, i didn't persue, we were just good friends. Never meeting in person. He was there for me through all of my dating, listening. I was there for him and his issues with his ex-wife. She asked him for a divorce, due to him not being able to have kids, which she knew about prior to getting married. And she litterally destroyed a huge part of him. It was really sad to watch. Then, he of coarse started playing again 😉. He was with a chick while i was still his friend, but we started getting so emotionally connected, i decided we needed to meet in person so we can see 'what's reallly going on'. I didn't mind really that he pretty much had a girlfriend because i wasn't going to be his rebound chick. No way. I loved him before i physically laid my eyes on him. Skies were the limit of what we would talk about. So he could have her until i didn't think it was appropriate any more essentially. But he moved SOOOOOOOOO slow. Well to a gemini as myself who DIVES into everything i do full force. He kept it slow and steady. I knew he felt for me like i felt for him. It just took time to get him to make big moves. I didn't apply ANY pressure. He had to make choices. My job was far more than his, so he knew i couldn't move. Finally after almost 3 years of knowing him, he moved in by me. And slowly still he amazes me, adores me, he is unreal to me. But, if i had left it up to him, we still probably wouldn't have met yet!!! I said to him look, lets do it. why let this go without seein gif it is more than what we think it is.
I think he was so slow with it, making sure i fit into his life. Ithink he was seein gif he could be with me, how i was in all types of situations, did i cook for him blah blah blah. I would still give it time. These men are wonderful. If he's a playa, my guess is, when he finds the right one, if he's the right age, he will lay it down for the right woman. I really beleive that's what these men are really looking for.

I think you're absolutely right Baby-GrL, pleased to meet you as well. The player bit has me absolutely stumped. I am all that and then some in my way of thinking. I know things about the man that I am 99.9% sure no one else knows except his Momma. With me he's hmmm, wary I think is a good word. Like he cannot NOT talk to me but he's scared of me at the same time. At first he came on strong and heavy with the sexy talk, now I'm up on a pedestal. Right irritating it is up here too. Because I'd like to talk about things that would make statues blush. I have a jar that I am faithfully saving up for a plane ticket to meet him face to face. Even if it results in just being friends, I would like to try. My daughter taught me that life is too short, too precious to not.
He talks a very good game, and regularly throws his conquests in my face. Looking for my reaction perhaps? For me to blow up? To which I respond with boredom, distaste, or a quick 'no' response. Which I did tonight in fact. Told him I flat out was not interested in his black book, not one bit. He is ZERO interested in my history, why in the world would I want to hear his? Yeah, yeah, player, you got game *yawn*.
He's like a wounded little boy at times, I just want to scoop him up and hold him. If he knew that he'd probably run screaming for the hills, but that's my maternal rearing its head. You'd think me being a Bull as well I'd get the gist of his behavior, but it puzzles me exceedingly.
We're so alike. It's like one masculine hand on one side of a mirror, feminine on the other. And even over IM windows the electricity just arcs.
Stubborn me and stubborn him.
I'm very glad for you, it sounds like you have a good man, and he loves you very deeply. I am always genuinely happy for people with good relationships. Big ol' softy me.
I have a whole lot of Aries cusp wanting to jerk him by the horns and say "Look pal, put up or shut UP", then the Bull steps in and slaps me in the back of the head. LOL

Sorry, I pretty much keep farmers hours around here. Up at 3 or 4 a.m., wiped at 7:30. I'm a weenie, what can I say? As to his, I only know his birthday, not the where and when.

Here's a pretty good "guess" though. I just didn't have exact time of birth so used 12 p.m.

Rising Sign - 17?? Leo
Sun - 17?? Taurus
Moon - 14?? Scorpio
Mercury - 00?? Gemini
Venus - 17?? Aries
Mars - 18?? Leo
Jupiter - 07?? Aries
Saturn - 22?? Aquarius
Uranus - 01?? Virgo
Neptune - 14?? Scorpio
Pluto - 09?? Virgo
N. Node - 22?? Cancer

Nice to meet you too venusian 🙂

I think he is putting you through tests, whether he knows it or not. Mine did the same thing except he was VERY interested in my past and in the current situations with the men i dated. He later told me that, he was listening to see what those men did wrong and how i handled them. ANd with him, i was even more cut and dry. Meaning, if i was dating someone, and whatever they did to annoy me and make me lose interest me and him would talk about. So, when me and him took those 'furthering the relationship" steps, he already knew so much a bout what will cause me to lose interest.
I did as you did playing that hard role. He knew with out a shadow of a doubt, no matter how much i was digging you, i could turn it off just that fast. He would be amazed at that. Which, for a bull, i think played a huge part in how he dealt with me. He knew i wasn't taking NO shit. ANd he knew that it was in his best interest to be honest because i will find the truth, and if you lied, DONE.

He pushed the envelope and felt the consequences once. After that, he knew i was serious. I'm a different breed, not the jealous type and give him a freedom of expression that was obviously something he isn't/wasn't used to.

Don't push him, keep this pace, when it gets unbearable, wher eyou have to touch him, feel him, then make your move. By that time, he hopefully will be open to investigating in person. But the best thing about online serious dating is, you have no choice BUT to get to know each other and open up and talk because that is all you have. It forces the man to open up. I worked that because communication is everything with me. I have to be able to share my deepest darkest thoughts and dreams. most men can't handle what runs through my head. So i started real easy on him and made him respond. So as time progressed, he was accustom to hard questions...and learned to open up. This time for you right now with him is priceless.

Good luck hun, i hope you have the luck i had with mine. I now i have one for the long haul and all the pain and suffering of living in spearate states paid off. But both him and i had to pay some serious dues.

Also, when timing is right, try calling him an investment and see what his response was. Mine loved that i called him that. I didn't find that out until later. But with being in a lng distant relationship, you really can't be and do as a real relationship. So, all i did, and took that i normally wouldn't, i justified as him being an investment. I saw the kind of man he was. I saw the kind of married man he was. He was faithful, loyal domesticated, hard working, forgiving all those valuable traits. After he was divorced, he went in the streets, bending corners as he called it. I let him. Having been divorced myself, i knew a person needs time to find there own identity again. So let him. I didn't say negatvie things. Just cracked some jokes. It was HARD girlfriend. HARD. but i knew he needed that. So when I felt it was the make or break point for us. Meaning he was diggin a certain chick, that's when i pulled out my big guns. The poor girl didn't stand a chance. BUt i was head honcho regardless if i was there or not. See by allowing him to see other chicks established my confidence and my value to him. I wanted him to be SURE i was it. No questions no nothing. In order for him to make that move by me realistic to him.. ANd i knew that was the challenge since this man is so set in his routine and ways.

i could go on and on.. sorry, i'm just excited for you and hope it allll works out for ya 🙂

That's very insightful. :-) If you'd like to go on and on please do.
I know this one is a very good man. He too works hard, has many of the same core values I do and his sense of humor is totally sympatico with mine.
He's so kind and thoughtful and then that wall goes up. The one I'd like to tear down with my bare hands.
I have been very tolerant of the 'booty call waves' as I call them, but last night was the last straw. I know he has a past, and a present, but it annoys me to no end because it seems he's flaunting them purposefully to get a rise out of me. And on some levels it hurts because I'd like to be the focus of that attention. When I said he wasn't interested in mine, it was pulled from a conversation we had one evening. He was lauding his celebrity 'to do' list and I asked if he wanted mine, he said "No". So I called enough last night.
Not to mention some of the choices he made make my insides knot up. A 'Her?! Are you out of your flipping mind?!" response.
I also have called it in my head a Peter Pan mentality. It's like he continues to be 17 in some aspect of himself. And looking at it from a grown up point of view it's destructive in a way.
I do not know where this will lead, of course I have hopes and dreams, but I am just enjoying who he is and at the same time bashing my head against a wall.
I have never, not once lied to him, and I am truly hoping the favor was and is returned. Truth is best in all situations I think. And I told him right from the word go do NOT play with my head.
I do my absolute best to try to bring up how I feel from time to time. I think they're gentle pushes, and I do drop it when he gets uncomfortable but I also like to push the envelope and play devil's advocate from time to time. Take him outside his comfort limit a bit, shake him up.
There are signs here and there. Once when we were on the phone he heard my eldest girls boyfriend in the background and I got a powder keg charged "Who is THAT?!" and then a huge relax after I explained. That he expects me to just be there to talk too after work, knowing I won't pressure him, just welcome him home and not give him any butter or expect him to jump through hoops after a long day. There have been evenings honestly when he would just be watching a movie with his feet up. Did I care? Not really, knew the man needed to relax and veg.
And the music he sends me. Mixed messages completely. Love songs so beautiful you are moved to tears,

then something off the wall entirely. The feeling, then 'the wall'. One step forward, 3 back.
He is fully aware that I'm a homebody, a very good cook, and a one man woman. He knows me pretty well backwards and forwards, minus the physical of course. I do not need to explain anything to him, he already knows. He just knows.
The lack of physical is a hard one for me because I've always been extremely touchy-feely. It's a way to connect, reaffirm and STAY connected.
My concern is that he'll tire of me because I'm too accessible. Or he'll adopt an oh well attitude because I'll keep that light burning morning, noon and night.
Did I mention I hate games? I really do.
I think you're right about the testing. It's like he's seeing just how far he can push and how much crud I'll take. If it's obvious I'll ask him if there's a quiz tomorrow and should I go collect a pencil.
And I'm going on and on too! LOL

it's amazing how you sound like me during that time. That's why i used the coined phrase "investment". I felt i was truely investing in him for somethin gin the future. That future did come for me. He sounds like mine, he is begining to Need you. Thats important. A constant in his life. The hard part is the transition to mentally to physically. That's scary for them.

Oh the booty calls. Mine had just 1 chick. i knew about her, and told him to have his fun while he can. I will be taking what's rightfully mine. I found out later he had lied to me about her on numerous occasions. he would tell enough to make me hapy and keep enough so he iddn't think i knew as much. He was pushing his freedom as far as i would let it. But i waited to put my foot down until i knew i wanted him permanently and until i knew he was hooked on me to the point that he couldn't live wihtout me. It was hard around his family because they knew about me and her, but i had his whole family in my corner. This chick, i'll never know why he chose her. She was UGH, i don't know. 4 kids, 3 baby daddies. Straight outta the trailor park mentality. Just a horrible mouth, i knew more than he will ever know that i know. But they were so destructive to each other. SO much, that it took some time for him to adjust that no i'm not going to disrespect you like that, it was like he was always on shells waiting for me to act like she did. I don't get it. ANd i know she was there because i wasn't. If i was in the same city, she would have been gone. ANd when i put my foot down, he saw the ugly reality i had warned him about. That's a good story. I scared the crap outta him. He calls me a PI cuz i will find out, i will react, and you will not be happy. Had him cryin on my dad's answering machine. that changed everything. Once he realize he could lose me. Next thing you know.. he moved.. Very rough road. But i beleived in him. ALWAYS. I didn't throw things in his face. I waited until i couldn't anymore. He knew it was coming. And he did what was best for him. I didn't handle any man previous to him like that. So i don't know why how or anything like that, that allowed me to deal with those things. The only thing i knew, was he was worth it. 🙂

Same with me. It's like he goes out of his way to pick the sleaziest women, picks them on purpose knowing it's just the physical. Knowing he can drop them like a hot potato. Or the opposite direction, so young they could feasibly be his daughter. UGH. I try my best to not judge but it's a huge "Riddle me this Batman!" each and every time. And I know he's better than that!
I have plainly stated that when I get over there, that I do not share. Will not put up with hunting, or anything even lightly smacking of it, full stop. If he thought I was joking, he's in for a surprise. I am a very patient person when the reward is great.
He is very entrenched in the stiff upper lip. Extremely masculine, and I know fully that someone would be in deep doo if they messed with me. He's very protective. I also know that we'd be comfortable kicked back on the couch watching old movies or prowling around out of doors. Just talking face to face is what I am looking forward too. To watch the emotions play across his countenance.
Ahhh me. I am a case alright.

nah... not a case lol i would tell him i was going out when i wasn't. The last thing you want at this point is to be completely his 'beck n call girl'. That's too easy. I challenged him and would tell him i'm going out, even though i didn't lol. I had to. I could not have him thinking i was sitting on the couch at home waiting on him. If he was going out... so was I. Usually i did, but on occassion if i didn't feel like it, i wouldn't but he sure thought i did. He didn't like that too much. But tough shit. I'm patient and i'm waiting, but i always let him know that door was still open for someone else if they snatched me up. Also, depending on how long it's been, you might need to do face time. Mine wasn't wide open to it. But for me, i had to know how i responded to him in real life. I was way too deep and i couldn't spend anymore time, in my head. I had to make it real. So i told him i was coming to see him. He freaked out at first, but i know he knew it was coming. He started going to the gym, everyday! LMAO So gave him a few weeks notice so he could 'get his mind around it'. I have found with everything and anything, if you want them to do something, you have to get them used to it first. Makes life alot easier FYI. So i told him i wanted to come see him. (i wanted it on my terms, no obligations on his part, so i can exit quick like lightening if i need to) so, that 3 weeks was torture girl. OMG. But, we knew instantly. I still see him standing in his parking lot, hands held together nervous as i got out of my car. I looked him in his eyes and it was DONE. And the worst, i knew, he knew, i was done. LOL

Babygirl, its funny you brought up how a taurus will test their future mate. My baby father who is a taurus, and we are trying to work our relationship out and its feels like he is testing me everyday it crazy, just wanted to add that comment.

LOL Ohhhh I do, I tell him I'm in the tub when I wasn't. I've got things to do if he's busy, or I'll ask if he wants let go for the evening. Usually the answer is a big nah! and if I do bugger off for the evening I get 'the salute'. He wants me to hang out until he drops for the night but like I said "Gots stuff to do". Even when I don't. Can't have him knowing I've got the speakers cranked for that IM noise, heavens no. Might get a fat head that won't fit through doorways. And of course the man isn't a state away, or even two. He picked an entire ocean to cross, so face time is going to be tricky. Can't wait though. Even if it's a quarter in the jar, it's 25 off the total. I can't WAIT. Being done isn't a bad thing, LOL.
Pleased to meet you LadyScorp, and good luck to you with YOUR Bull. I am one and he's got me feeling like I'm back in school. OY!

Posted by LadyScorpioNov
Babygirl, its funny you brought up how a taurus will test their future mate. My baby father who is a taurus, and we are trying to work our relationship out and its feels like he is testing me everyday it crazy, just wanted to add that comment.

I can't blame him, i do the same thing. They are typically innocent little tests. I welcome them, the more we can go through the more we can learn about each other before we walk that isle.

I think everyone tests out a prospective mate, it's just hardwired in us to do so. And the deeper you've been injured by someone else, the more rigorous the sounding out. It's like "Here's my B.S., does it mesh with yours? Can you put up with it?".

Well Venusian, good luck and keep us posted 🙂 Happy Holidays 🙂

Thanks, Happy Holidays to you as well. :-)

Oh my goodness, please do share more!!

I have a bull of my own and we are having a long distance relationship.
Here's my story, please help! (pardon the length):
He came to my country for work. I met him shortly before I moved halfway across the globe for a 1 yr work assignment (we basically switched continents).

When I met him, he had a gf of a few years and they were in a dying relationship, even though she had moved countries to be with him. He cheated on her in those last months of the relationship, and as he told me, it was because he didn't feel close to her. I knew he has a girlfriend only after he kissed me, so there.
Few days after we met, he broke up (not because of me, but because it was dragged on too long). In the very beginning stage, he was chasing me like mad, even though I wanted to stop seeing him due to the complications (just broke up, ex still living there, I'm leaving for a yr, who knows where he might even be geographically when/if I return). However he professed his feelings, told me he had no secrets to me, to leave the door open to him etc. All that talk. Given that we had limited time with an uncertain outcome, we made the most of the 2 months before my departure, spending whatever time together we could. And then I left.
He kept in very close touch, and 3 months later came back to his continent for his birthday, and we holidayed together, including my meeting all his friends and family members. He had months earlier said that he will quit his job as he was not happy with his management folks, so I offered him to come when he quits. He didnt' quit. And offered no solution to our situation. When he left after our holiday, we were both so sad, tears and all. Since I offered a solution which he had turned down, and didn't offer any solution, we distanced ourselves. In that time, his ex girl returned to their own country (she didnt move earlier because she didn't manage to find a job that pays enough to pay rent). He then had the whole apartment to himself. So he had his conquests in that time. 3 weeks of distance later, I caved in and took the initiative to speak with him and suggested that we can have a long distance thing, see each other every couple of months.
And so we went on it. Unbeknownst to me, he lied to me about the other girls.

Nice to meet you venusian, and good luck.

Youthful is it more to the story or he just lied when you all were apart about different women?
He might not be ready for something serious since he has cheated in the past.

When we spoke after the distance from each other, we would be on online messengers for hours on end during weekends. As he was busy with work, I flew back to my country to see him 2 months later (in Aug). He was a tiny bit more distant than our previous meetings. His behavior after that trip also begin to change. Little by little, he got more distant (work was his reason). He also got more easily irritated at me, for slightest things. Just little behaviors like this. Another 2 months gone by and he came here to see me in Oct. By then, I felt something amiss. I wondered if it has anything to do with his ex who had stayed there 6 months (which he denied, told me he has nothing to hide, and angrily told me off for being suspicious over nothing, etc). I believed him, and told myself he is just busy, I should be patient, understanding etc. Of coz I am understanding, which girl would let their partners live with an ex for 6 months when he is mainly elusive to me about what went on (he told me that nothing went on, and it's not interesting to talk about, she doesn't come to his mind, etc. ).
Anyhow, we fought during the trip, including leaving me in tears. Finally, in late Oct, I couldn't shake off that feeling and outright asked him if he had anything with anybody. He answered that he didn't cheat, because we "broke up" at that time (while I was just being understanding, giving him space to think about what he wants and also to deal with the emotions when he ex finally left his life). Obviously I was crushed, not just by the incidents, but the lies. I am honest and straight-up, and he had previously given me the impression that he was honest too. Despite my standing by him, and continued to keep in touch, he became even more distant and cold. Occasionally he would write me more. I still kept going to him, telling him how I feel (both for him, and for my hurt), yet he was still behaving the same way with me. I suffered considerably. During that "confessional" conversation, he also told me ridiculous things, but on hindsight, the underlaying thing was that he wasn't feeling committed. Still, he considered us as together, and his contact is in the form of 1 sms a day before he goes to bed. I have no real idea what he is doing, apart from having a lot of work to do. This is I guess the bull's puzzling behavior (not letting me go, not giving me more).

How is that a relationship, right? If he doesn't feel committed, we can break up and my life will go on about I am through the grief. However, he doesn't break up nor shape up.
2 weeks back, after not hearing from him in days, I got him on the phone. He told me that I should focus on my life. BUT, he still sends me his daily goodnight sms, and even a tiny bit more in the last 2 weeks. Man, I'm going bonkers with this behavior....
A close guy friend of mine still living in my country is coming to this continent for New Year's and his birthday, and my friend asked us both to join him. My bull meets up with my friend once in a while. Me and my friend both asked, and finally 4 days back he replied that he's not coming for New Year... but will fly home for a few days over Christmas. That's not an issue. The issue is, his home is in my current continent. He didn't asked me to join him for Christmas.
Finally I asked him why, and he told me the flights were expensive, I told him previously I couldn't time off work during Christmas etc. Well, Christmas is over the weekend period, I told him. Also, I found a flight, though expensive, I would gladly pay for to see him. So he kind of told me if I wanted, I could come. Erm... thanks. I booked my flight and will fly off tomorrow.

Maybe I'm doing it all wrong, showing him all my emotions for him. But the thing was, he was the one who came on strong to me for months and finally I am fully sure that I am in love with him, then it all changed. Little by little, but it did.
Please advise what I should do. I am so scared to see him tomorrow. Like I said, I understand if he wants to play the field or don't feel committed, then just go ahead to end things with me. But he doesn't. The not moving forward, yet not letting go. And we are officially still in a relationship.
Please tell me what I should do.
Thanks people, you have been very loving and helpful when I read this site. I am truly appreciative.

By the way, my assignment will end in 2 months and I will fly home.
And I'm Aries. 🙂

Oh my, I wish I had some advice to give you. Long distance relationships are tough. So far my bull and I are friends. I'd like more, buuuut. You know that old song and dance.
I will say this though, leaving a job for a bull is HARD. It's that security blanket, we know the money is coming in and in todays economy that makes it scarier yet. You meeting his friends and family sounds like a good thing. He's let you into his circle. Huge deal.
I am sorry he had other women over and furthermore that he lied to you about them. I know that's painful, when my husband left the children and I it was for another woman. Much younger, 2 years older than his stepdaughter. Apparently one not used to him and still thought the sun flew out his backside every morning. So, 13 years and 2 kids, done and over. That's another story, the point is, it hurts.
I do wish you the best with your Bull and hopefully some others will chime in and give you some help. In the meantime, I have fresh coffee and cookies and am always willing to lend an ear. :-)

Ugh, how utterly maddening! One forward, ten back, eh? One of the things with us is, unfair or no, we like to keep things. Possessions, people, same difference to us. We're collectors.
As Fire you want forward motion, action. And we are plodders. Catch-22. I'm a cusp so I can randomly swing from sloth mode to bouncing off the walls.
I am sure you have a whole flock of butterflies in your stomach over the meeting tomorrow, but be firm and have it fixed in your head what you will accept and what you won't. You can either scorch the earth or gently set it ablaze, the choice is yours. But show him how wonderful you are.
Sometimes we need about a #10 cast iron upside the stubborn head!

Thanks Venus (*munch on your cookies*). 🙂
Yes, long distance is not easy, but nothing on my end changed, and I'm devoted. There is NOT ONE single guy I've opened the door for, not even a date, and may I say that I have no lack of suitors (the Big Dude up there has been kind to me). My point is that I am able to take it given that it's only a temporary situation, so I stuck it out.
As much as I may seem to be the one grovelling at his feet despite his treatment, I suspect that I'm actually much more emotionally independent than he is. This is my guess, that he feels acutely the pain of the distance, and because he does not want to face the bad feelings nor deal with them, he basically cut off those feelings (perhaps that's why he distanced himself). In the meanwhile, he told himself things like he doesn't feel committed, he's busy, maybe it's better to be single. If what he told himself is really what he feels, he would have given me up. However, bulls being notorious for taking their time, I think he is just not sure, and doesn't wanna feel the guilt of being accountable should our relationship not progress, so he behaves in this way.

Whereas for me, I don't do that. Either I'm in a relationship lovingly, or not.

Venus, how should I behave tomorrow? To raise this topic with him might be poisonous given that we are not physically able to share good things, and only having bad discussions is not gonna be a "nice meeting". He is quite the clam when it comes to speaking about emotions (which he wasn't in the beginning). I intend to only have a good time so he can remember the nice moments we have, and not discuss unless he brings it up (which will happen if the globe spontaneously combust). What do you think?

I mean, I'm returning in 2 months so if we are still officially together upon my return, then discussion can ensue face-to-face. He has escaped online discussions and withdrawn, so having the chance to see each other tomorrow for the Christmas weekend (with his family) is my opportunity to show him the nice time we used to have together.... (if I can hold myself off, that is! You know us Aries!)

Youthful now hearing the entire story, I think that there is something there but I am not a taurus just a women like urself dealing with one with the exact attitude. So I will leave that up to the bulls to give you some advice and good luck.

I think, and what do I know really? LOL that ultimatums are a big no-no. That will make us paw the ground and dig in our heels. The male of the species seem to be plenty good at fencing. Quick strike in, usually a fatal one to the heart, then dancing out of range. Sounds pretty apt I think.
So a huge heart to heart is probably what has him quaking in his shoes at this point.
My advice would be to relax, enjoy the time with him, sound him out. Sparkle, dazzle. Smell great, wear gorgeous soft things, be as beautiful as you are, inside and out and outshine everything around you. Make him truly SEE you. Be a coquette, flirt outrageously with him, softly touch him, challenge him intellectually. Pull every feminine wile out of your arsenal and bomb blast that man till he sees stars.
And before it's time to go, tell him that he needs to make up his mind. The goddess before you could vanish in a puff of smoke. But if you hold her, oh if you hold her, the world is yours.
Pretty good, eh? *brows waggling*.

Thanks ladyscorpio for listening nonetheless! An opinion as a woman is also good 🙂

And Venus, you have put out my intentions in an even better way than I could! 🙂

Only thing is, straightfoward Aries that I am, I find little strategies like this quite unlike me. But at the same time as a woman, I do know the power of feminine wiles, and what better way to utilise them than with a bull who takes to the senses, and that I am sincerely in love with! 🙂

You are a great help, and so benovelent with me hijacking your thread. Thank you very much!!!

Wish me luck for this weekend!

p.s Anyone who would love to chime in, I'd love to hear it too. I need all the help I can.

Best of luck for the weekend! :-) Think Lauren Bacall, lean against that doorway and ask that man if he knows how to whistle!

22nd here 😄 And ain't it the truth? LOL
Happy Holidays fellow Bulls, however you celebrate the day.

Wanted to thank everyone that posted comments and advice, was in such a rush to get my story out. 🙂

Venus et al,

Thank you very much for all your help.
I feel I should give you an update.

Taurus and I had a nice Christmas. Before I left, I did let him know that he should make up his mind, that I could disappear.
He seemed a little sad to say goodbye at the airport. After that, his messages came in a little bit more than normal. So it's good right?
No.
In mid Jan, I found out that he had emailed photos of him with his teddy bear to his ex girl friend for her birthday. That is not a problem. The problem is he and I had discussed this many times before abt him keeping in touch with his ex (the one that was living with him even after we started to see each other for 6 months). Basically we had discussions about her because they had sex once in the beginning stage when they first broke up and he already started seeing me. He told me they lived separate lives, but I discovered that they had meals together, played tennis together, went out together etc.

Again, that is not the problem. Though they broke up and he was dating me, it could happen this way - afterall, I have a housemate too and for convenience we just eat together if both happened to be home, etc. I do not have any jealousy over it. The only problem was, I had to discover all these by myself, or from asking him, time and again. It is strange that their "friendship" is kept behind my back till I ask something. In the end to avoid complications, I asked that just let me know whenever they are in touch, no problem. He never did. We had discussed /argued at least 5 times over this.

As with probably many long distance relationship, we take photos of overselves via our laptop to send to each other. He sent me some pics and I noticed that the numbering sequence jumped 25 spots. Because I didn't receive those 25 pics, I asked him what pics he took of himself, and asked to see them. After asking 4 times to silence, he finally told me that he took some photos and sent to his ex for her birthday. When I asked to see them he threatened me with a "high price to pay", saying that I'm being more intrusive than he can accept.

It completely broke my heart. First he didn't keep his words once again. Then he considered me as "intruding" into his photo-sharing with his ex, and thirdly, threatened me with price to pay. I mean, what did I do wrong to have to pay a price for? All the times he treated me badly, coldly, lied, etc, I did not even once threaten him with "price" to pay. I am not asking to see the photos of their past holidays or stuff like that. I asked to see the photos even before I knew what they were, because photos taken via the laptop are rightfully photos of oneself right? And now I am the intruder into him and ex? I was heartbroken.

The next day, he sent me an sms like normal. I told him that I felt really sad. It seems like while he could remember her birthday which is only 1 day a year, he forgot all our agreements and discussions which we had many times. He told me I drove him crazy...
Wow. I haven't even start on how he drove me crazy all those times I had to discover their interactions behind my back.

Finally, I told him that I can't do this anymore.

It's just been 3 weeks, out of which he had spent time overseas for work. Already, on his facebook, he has been adding new girls as friends weekly, and deleting the "new friends" notification on his wall. (Well, he doesn't delete those notifications if they were friends from work or from his country. ) One of those girls he added, is a friend of the girl he has sex with, during the time we had our "distance" in June. Which got me thinking that he is again now in touch with his lover.

So as much as I am trying to deal with the loss and pain, this is again very painful for me. I haven't completely let go, and then again this sort of things.
In 3 weeks time I will go back to my country. I'm sure I'll bump into him. I'm now scared and hurt. 😢

I'm so sorry lady *sigh*.

Thanks Venus.
I'm just a big mess now. Going crazy in my head is becoming "normal" in my books.
Can't think of anything else but this, and obviously I can't do much work in the office either.
It's just so painful.... 😢

I know you're hurting right now, but DO try to do nice things for yourself. Even if it's a date with Ben & Jerry, those two fellows never let a girl down.

Thank you Venus. You are an incredibly lovely woman.

On one hand I wish to adopt your attitude with your current relationship, ie, let him play the field while he makes up his bull mind.
On the other hand, it's just soooooo hard. Sooo painful to watch while he obviously is getting to know girls, and probably bringing them home too.
God, it just stabs me.

Given that he and I had broken up, the only thing I can do when I return to my country is to see if he contacts me.

His family has been incredibly nice to me as well. I've only seen them once when we holidayed in his home country in May. This time during Christmas, they told me that they know the problem is not with me, and they are also very puzzled, and is praying for me etc. I'm glad that at the very least, I have seemingly won over his family members, so it's not that easy a feat for my "successor". However, when my own Taurus is not choosing me, what is the point right? Empty battle won.

Sorry, just need to vent. Going crazy!!

Thank you, I think you're a lovely woman as well. 🙂
It really goes against the grain for me, the waiting ( and waiting ). I cannot call him mine, he goes out of his way to not call me his, it sucks quite frankly. I do not approve of the actions as far as the hunting, but it is completely out of my hands. I'm sure you see the conundrum here. So, it sits at friends for now.
I do know that you cannot live your life like that, and you fully deserve a man that will make it loud and clear that you are his lady, his ONLY lady.
I say live your life. It will drive him flat out bonkers knowing you aren't crying into your pillow every night and listening to 'Sad Radio, All Hits, For Singles, All The Time'. Even if you ARE. Live your life. "Hello, I'm fine thanks. I'd really like to stay and chat, but I've got a girls night out planned and need to get ready." He would expect you to come back if he crooks his finger, don't you do it. That would set up a cycle that bottom line it's really okay for him to trod on your heart repeatedly and it is NOT okay dammit!
I firmly believe there are honorable and good men out there. Not to say there are not perfectly admirable qualities with the Bull, because you feel for him, of course he has good points, but he's just hurting you lady. In the raising of all my sisters and myself my father always said "If the good and bad are pretty well equal or below that point, stay. But if the scales are tipped and you're hurting all the time? GET DA FUCK OUT." There's man wisdom for you, and it's a GOOD lesson.
I love my ex-husbands family to death, and they love me too. At the very least you have met some good people to include in your life. I think if he comes around, it's meant. But if he does not, or will not, bend even a little bit and show you that you are his lady, then it is time to heal.
And you need a whole bunch of these, so I'm giving them to you. (((((HUGS))))))

Thank you! Thank you!
Unfortunately I've already caved yesterday and sent him a sentimental love song, telling him I'm thinking of him! 🙂
No reply today of coz.
I have my doubts he'll come back. He's been firstly the type that simply shelve his feelings aside and doesn't face them. Instead, he occupies himself with other ladies. Probably just a distraction at this time (though of coz things could develope further - that's how it started with me too). He's also not one that admits to his wrongdoings thus far, and justifies his actions with excuses.
I know tons of people do that, but being Aries I am far too honest, both with myself and others. So I don't feel that it is fair for me to rub my pain off on somebody who I am not interested in but just use as a distraction. I would feel that I'm using people, so I can't do that. Obviously he could, and certainly seem to be well in progress of it already.
So I doubt he will return, and if he does when he gets tired of all the ladies he's been enjoying himself with, that could be years from now.
By then I will have been completely crushed watching him do his bachelor thing, and I don't think I ever go back to him at that time.
So... what's the conclusion?
I'm not optimistic at all.
Just that it hurts like f**k now...

That's the damned rub of relationships. You are never sure how they're going to turn out. And of course you're hurting right now. I was in a remarkably similar place that you're in right now a couple of years back. My husband walked out on the children and I after 13 years saying he 'wasn't happy'. He did not talk, he refused, he would not work on things. The thing is he had a girl on the back burner for heaven knows how long. And I do mean a GIRL. All of 20 years old, 2 years older than his step-daughter. It was a long road for me, it plays hell on your self-esteem, your heart, and your head. And the trust goes right down the loo, deffo. Did it sour me on love? No, that would be rubbish. I am still the same bleeding heart romantic I've always been. Heart on my sleeve. ( It makes the sword cuts deeper, but hey ho, what can you do? )
What I'm trying to impart to you is this. It is knee deep in shit right now, but you WILL heal. I am better, faster, stronger and wiser than I was before. I know what pitfalls to avoid, and I wear my battle scars with pride. I am still here, I am still looking at the world with fresh eyes, the seasons still come and go, each one as beautiful as it ever was. Keep as busy as you can, even if you tumble into bed knackered. It will serve you well in the long run. Let yourself grieve the end of the relationship, because you must. But try your absolute best to not let it kick you in the teeth. Put on loud, angry, "UP YOURS!" music. And when you DO get angry, prepare to kick ass and TAKE NAMES. Go out with the girls, have a good long cry in private and even with excellent friends. Buy yourself something frivolous, watch excellent films. Be as kind as you possibly can be to yourself. I promise you that it will be alright, it just takes time. It is a somewhat tired sentiment, but it's been true for millenia.

Hahaha! You are like the best friend I don't have!
Well I do have supportive friends, but I am the one among us girls that says stuff like that. So yeah, I'm going to treat myself well. I don't hide from my feelings and cry buckets when I feel like. Been through enough heartache to know that this will eventually heal too.

I'm so sorry to hear about the ex of yours. It must have been terrible for you. A 20 yr old! My god I hope for him that he is still happy with his mid-life acquisition! Is it ok to ask how things are now for you 2 years down the road. Is he still with her? Did he come back? Sorry, I have to ask but it's ok if you prefer it private as well.

Oh no, it's fine. 🙂 We are civil, even friendly to one another. And he's still with the toy. I can laugh about it now, imagining them having DEEP conversations like what flavor of bubblegum they like best, or what to play on the Gameboy ( decisions, decisions ).
And after I got on my own two wobbly feet I wouldn't have taken his arse back in a million years!! He walked on over a decade and two beautiful children. The pain he put us all through was astronomical. All so he could dip his wick? I don't effing THINK SO. That was the anger for me. That he didn't think at all with the big head, it was all below the belt. And ohhh was it a clean burn, it felt so much better than sobbing into my dogs fur. It was powerful. More power to them I say, with my blessing for good measure. 🙂

That must have been insane. It hurts me too to even read it!
I mean, if he was truly unhappy, there is this thing called "CONVERSATION".
I find that a lot of men just stomach whatever little minor things that they are entirely pleased with, and resentment built. Then, they let it brew into a big volcanic cup of poison.
The next thing you know, it's on your face and you have no idea what hit you.
I would have respected your ex-husband had he attempted to have an adult conversation with you, but then if he's hanging with a 20 yr old, I doubt he's too matured in the first place. Maybe their emotional maturity is on the same level.
Grrr... I'm so angry for you!!
I'm glad you came out strong and proud. 🙂

🙂 Thanks for that, I think so as well. If they want to play Matchbox cars and Monopoly round the clock, that's fine by me. He'll ring me about something then start talking about his problems and I will say politely: "Excuse me, that is not my concern any longer, talk to your girlfriend." It sounds mean, but it isn't. It's a severing of ties, every last one.
And you're right about the conversation, relationships are hard work. You fall in and out of love, sometimes you'd like to bust out the cling film and put it over their face at night, but by GOD you should be there for one another. Hanging tough, talking things over, and knowing that it's going to be a battle. Sometimes a daily one, but that the commitment is there. Your partner should have your back, and I'm not talking about the unicorns, rainbows and flowers shit. But be there in the trenches with you and FOR you.

Spoken like a wise woman. 🙂
And no, you weren't mean where you direct your ex-husband to his girlfriend for his problem-sharing. In fact, she should thank you.
Problem-sharing is what partners do for each other. Trouble begins when people don't direct their conversation to their partners anymore, but to some other person. That's how closeness developes with another person. You did the right thing. 🙂