could use a some gemini insight

This could be a long post. But after getting comfortable with all of you, I think its cool if I 'put myself out there'

Just found out today that my former gf has gotten engaged. We dated for almost 4 yrs. Second longest relationship of my life. I initiated the breakup for specific reasons. We didnt speak for a couple months afterwards. Then we started to converse with occasionaly. Things began to progress. I was able to talk openly with her about other girls I was dating and my intimate personal life. All the while asking her about hers. Specifically Id inquire about other people she was dating. She denied any such thing. She never mentioned seeing other guys, but all the time asking me about my goings on. My comfort level with her was fine, and asked her opinion about all sorts of stuff. This went on for 3~4 months. Our conversations began increasing and I was starting to feel like possibly there was a chance we could get back together. Things were moving in that direction, especially because of her increasing contact. Then one night she called, and we spoke for like 2 hours. It got late, so I told her I had to go. All of a sudden she starts balling her eyes out and asks if she can talk with me. I said we have been doing that for hours already, what does she want to say? So Gemgirl blurts out that her boyfriend wants her to move in with her and get married.

Okay, so basically I was blown away. What boyfriend? Move in with him? What? I knew by the way she divulged the info that it was a done deal, and she said so. I couldnt belive my ears at hearing her tell me that not only had she been dating a guy (her former x-bf whom she broke up with to date me no less!), but that she had already made the decision to move in with him and get married! She told me today in email that it was official and that they are now engaged.

Thats my story. Not really feeling happy about it, but not feeling sad or miserable. Guess its just the idea that a relationship is officially off the hook, dead as a doornail. Worst part about it is that I havnt achieved my needed sense of closure on it yet.

I have a question tollbooth .... during these several months that the two of you were conversing (her increased contact with you), which gave you the impression that there might still be a chance to get back together ... my question is: If she was this serious with another man, then WHY was she leading you to believe in this direction?

"Guess its just the idea that a relationship is officially off the hook, dead as a doornail."

Another question .. the above post suggests that your upset wasn't really an upset, as far as sad/misery, however, a disappoint is dectected in your tone because the relationship is officially dead .. and my question is: Would you want to get back with a woman who would make such contact with you as to lead you on, while becoming this serious with another man?

"Specifically Id inquire about other people she was dating. She denied any such thing. She never mentioned seeing other guys, but all the time asking me about my goings on."

Ye Gods!

OK... I took full responsibility for the insensitive bullsh1t I committed on Sunday that caused my wife grief -- TODAY.

Ask Angelina HOW LONG it took her to own up to her crazy Federal Marshals claim? (Uh, WAY LONGER than 48 hours, I assure you!)

I'm not assigning labels. I'm trying to be concise. We're all way more complex than Astrological Sign, Gender, etc.

P-A:"my question is: If she was this serious with another man, then WHY was she leading you to believe in this direction"

I dont think it had anything to do with my misinterpretation of her. I believe it had more to do with her being Gemini. Thats really the basis of what Im trying to ask here?

P-A: "and my question is: Would you want to get back with a woman who would make such contact with you as to lead you on, while becoming this serious with another man?"

Not in the least. But Im still not certain of how a Gem woman could conduct herself in this manner? Is it typical, or even capapble for this sign to go to these lengths of deception?

P-A, thats what has me so confused about the whole matter? Why on Earth would someone go to that length of deception to mislead someone? Doesnt even make sense? What would the ultimate purpose be to invest that much effort? I know it was done spitefully, if not vengfully (sp). Thats just plain fkdup for a woman spurned to go that far.

Oh .. I mis-read you, sorry 🙂 I thought the tone was suggesting that you were disappointed because you lost out on her.

I don't know why any woman would do something like this. You know, women complain all the time about men being emotionally distant, and here we have a good example as to why men are so leary of women these days. It's just not right.

Re-reading your original post .... when you and her were talking for hours and then she broke down and told you .. do you think she was looking for you to have some kind of jealous reaction?

In thinking about that ^ coupled with her constant contacting you, I would almost be inclined to think that she wanted you to fight for her. Why else would she be schmooozing < did I use that in right context?) up to you if she had a man she was this serious about?

Do you mean like was she looking for validation? I dont see how that could be possible since I was uninformed about her private life. Was she looking for another mans desire? Well that could be true. But why? Thats what Im looking for. Maybe something only a Gem female can offer insight to. Really thats the reason Im posting this here.

The Verve - Bitter Sweet Symphony


That was really good .. never heard of them before. Thanks for putting up the link 🙂


My ex-Gem Man was a player, tollbooth .. however, there are some in every sign, while there are also people who aren't like that at all. Morals aren't really sign indicative.

There are a few really cool, level-headed Gem women in here who will be able to give you objective insight without taking this personal .. so, hopefully, one of them will come in and give you some clues about this girls behaviour.

" .. looking for validation? I dont see how that could be possible since I was uninformed about her private life."



Well, that makes sense ... if she were looking for that, then she would have told you about the other one, wouldn't she? ok, strike that idea, then.

"The Verve - Bitter Sweet Symphony"

good wristslashing music, yes?

Hope nobody takes it any more personal than I am. Only asking for insight that can help me understand. The Gem made a decision to get married in less than 4 months after our breakup. Thats not a long time in my eyes. Was she feeling for him during our relationship? I had no probs hangin' out with the guy while me and her were dating. Is that whacked or what? He wont even allow her to talk to me on the phone now! Yet she still communicates to me through work emails. What a twisted relationship thats going to turn out to be.

I don't think this is a Gem characteristic. I don't have a deceitful bone in my body. I'm very open about my interests, which usually turns dudes off because I'm not much of a chase. If I want you, I'll tell you, and if I don't, I'll tell you. This woman could have been a woman scorned, depending on why you guys broke up in the first place, and that my dear is another breed of a woman.

If for whatever reason, she may have felt like making you feel the pain that she possibly felt when you guys broke up the first time. But something tells me that things possibly went further than she wanted them to go with the way she broke down and cried. I DO think she wanted to kind of hurt you, but I don't think she wanted it to be by MARRYING the guy. Possibly her relationship with this guy grew quicker than she expected which is why they're marrying after such a short time.

You said this guy was her ex before you, correct? If that's the case, they have history and were possibly able to pick up where they left off. Which could also be a reason why the engagement came so quickly. He lost her once, he wasn't going to do it again... if she's a good catch.

I don't think her actions are from her Gemini spirit. I think it comes from her being hurt by the fate of you guys' previous relationship. Maybe when you guys first started talking again, she didn't think it would grow. I know when I'm just talking to my old flames in passing, I won't bring up my new interest. But my ex-boyfriend who I talk to every week knows EVERYTHING about my current interest because I don't want him to get any bright ideas or to think I'm leading him on. So possibly she didn't expect you guys to get so close again. That'll have me crying too. Torn between two guys that I really care about. It sucks to make that decision... especially when one doesn't wnat you talking to the other.

Hope I helped a little.

Roxi: "someone's still hung up on a gemini 😉"

There are to be no comments from the peanut gallery tyvm!




GEMuine: "You said this guy was her ex before you, correct? If that's the case, they have history and were possibly able to pick up where they left off. Which could also be a reason why the engagement came so quickly. He lost her once, he wasn't going to do it again... if she's a good catch."

Yes, true on all counts, except her being such a good catch. Although one mans trash is another mans treasure, I suppose? And yeah, just a touch of desperation for that guy if he asks her to move in with him and basically "seal the deal" and lock it up with her just so she doesnt go back to the other guy. Her and I had a history of off/on, so good chance he wanted to prevent it from occurring again.

Truth be told, I didnt want to get back together with her at all. I had very good reasons for terminating the relationship. The real reason I became so vulnerable to her is due to my choice of remaining friends with all my xgf's. Thats the sole purpose I began speaking with her a couple months post-breakup. I just wanted to still be friends with her. She made the consciious decision to mislead me and keep me uninformed on purpose.

emgem: "My feeling is she had moved on past the point of thinking you two ever had another chance....and think about it tollbooth, second chances nearly always fail anyway, and usually worse than the first. Whatever the reason, her comfort level with you wouldn't allow her to be honest, and what kind of friendship is that?"



Yes emgem, my exact words to her after the fact were 'Why would I still consider someone who lied to me the way you did to be a friend? I have enemies who would treat me better!'

If you read some of the traits listed about Geminin in that list of renee7's that she posted yesterday, or maybe Linda Goodmans description of Gems, or some other such description of The Twins, you will see that sly, cunning words and deceptive nature are common Gem traits. My xgf exemplifies them on many levels. Dont wanna turn this thread into a gem-bashing oppurtunity though. Just wanted to see if anyone had some perspectives on it.

tollbooth ... her sudden decision to move in with him and get married .. maybe she's preggers? Perhaps, she was just trying to decide whether you and her should try again and that's why she didn't tell you about him .. then got pregnant, so choice was made?

"He wont even allow her to talk to me on the phone now! Yet she still communicates to me through work emails."

That's fucked up .... if she's communicating to you through emails, eventhough she knows that her fiance would blow his top .. then she's not even in love with him. A woman in love would cut-strings for her man, and not continue to flirt with exes behind his back.

Again ... my ex-Gem-Man would do, and did do ... player things with me, and his current wife says he still does. From what I've gathered in here from several repsonses .. it sounds to me like this must be a built-in self-protective mechanism from getting hurt.

Let me correct myself in one of the above posts: I probably would have gone back out with her because of the way she was making me feel that she wanted to. It had to do with the intensity, topics, duration, intimacy level, etc that we were sharing in the phone calls. They were purposefully being ecalated. There are other details that I havnt mentioned here which isnt giving a complete picture to the story, and for that I apologise.

Also, I have not physically laid eyes on her now for almost one full year.

P-A, i have heard every single possible theory as to why she was doing this. Most of them, at the time, centered around the fact that she was still in love with me and didnt want to be with the other guy, and was keeping me "in reserve". This however turned out to not be the case. Her intentions were cruel in nature, I know this. Pregnancy was a small chance, but not likely.


ANd about her communicating with me secretly through email, that is fkdup. She said to me that he is "jealous" of me and didnt want to hang around with me. See where I mentined earlier that we used to hang out with him on occassion? I had no problems whatsoever, and cool with him being around. Hes not a bad guy at all, just.....just a little below her dating level for lack of a better term. Nice guy, just not "the one" in my humble opinion. It also explains why she didnt make any moves towards asking me to get back together while running her game, and kept me at a distance, but yet still kept a hook firmly planted in my cheek the whole time. Cunning and deceit, master at manipulation of the spoken word.

"P-A, i have heard every single possible theory as to why she was doing this. Most of them, at the time, centered around the fact that she was still in love with me and didnt want to be with the other guy, and was keeping me "in reserve". This however turned out to not be the case. Her intentions were cruel in nature, I know this. Pregnancy was a small chance, but not likely"

to hell wit her, she ain't shit...

the gem girl that is...

Emgem, as strange as it might sound, I dont believe I will be able to "move on" until she actually gets married! I dont want to sound stuck on her or anything remotely that way. But until she's hitched, there will still be that element of "what if" for me.

And yes, it did indeed feel exactly just like breaking up again for me, sad as that may sound. Thank you for your understanding of that point!

OSG, I really do despise her for having done this. It was pointless and served no purpose other then some self-satisfying gratification for her. Retaliation of the woman spurned. Spiteful little cunt. I dont use the c-word often. But when I do, its because the shoe fits......

yeah, she sounds like she just wants her cake and eat it to-with ice cream 🙂

lol, she wants her chicken noodle soup, with the soda on the side...

"I dont believe I will be able to "move on" until she actually gets married! I dont want to sound stuck on her or anything remotely that way. But until she's hitched, there will still be that element of "what if" for me."


What if?


Even though you know what you know .. there's still a "what if"?



I'm not understanding this, tollbooth ...

Holding out for the unhopeable? Nah....she's not worthy of a man like me. Shes not capable of changing her psychosis to keep a man like me. She has issues, some of them very serious.

The "what if" thing....well, its more about that feeling if she was able to change herself for me.....or maybe its about wondering if she changed herself for the new guy? But who can honestly ask someone to change for them? Doesnt work that way. I mean, its not like her problems were she was a nail-biter or slurped her soup at the table. The issues were much more serious than that.

** Opportunist ** ... a word Emma said on another thread, is ringing really loud in my ears right now. I can see this as a common trait in Gems that I know .. and it seems to come out differently, probably according to other planet placements within ones chart.

Opportunist - a trend or style aimed towards increasing ones influence at almost any cost; or a style which is based around seizing any and all opportunity to expand on ones power or influence over another or situation. A mind-set in which the aim is to capitalize of said influence with intent to use at their advantage, rather than a principaled position, or improvement of thier understanding of the situation or person.


In thinking about this, as it pertains to this particular situation .. it seems apparant that this woman was capitalizing upon her ability to influence you for her own advantage = emotional support during troubling times for her own satisfaction.

Wow, I wonder how this is relevant with other planets in the chart .. like in Mars, for example. Isn't that the "taking action" planet?

There must be another planet that heavily influences this trait though, because I know several Gems where this quality isn't apparant.

"A mind-set in which the aim is to capitalize of said influence with intent to use at their advantage, rather than a principaled position, or improvement of thier understanding of the situation or person."

Bingo.

I like the survival angle. It was a defense mechanism for her that allowed her to survive a tough situation. It was a here-and-now attempt at survivial, one that had definite future repurcussions (loss of respect and friendship from me to name a couple).

And she does seem to regret having done it to certain degree, although no real meaningful apology has been forthcoming. IN fact, her reasons for doing it I dont believe, and if you read those 2 lists of Gemini traits Renee7 posted, you'd see:

? Tend to say what others want to hear instead of saying how they really feel or what they know to be the truth
? Are KNOWN to have DOUBLE-PERSONALITIES
? Can easily justify any move they make & explain
? Deceive themselves the most
? Love to learn about others even though they are secretive in their own affairs
? Gemini women rarely ever open up to anyone

"I would speak my mind when i know that is the truth and altho it might hurt the other, if it leads to a greater good for us. But sure as hell there are chances i might play along and say what he wants to hear either when he's in no mood for it or when its a sensitive issue. I would always try and bring up a situation when such a sensitive issue can be dealt with without hurting the other."


I absolutely agree with that m&m .. that all people do this in some fashion. We all pick certain times, according to the other persons mood, and the topic of discussion .. when and how we will approach it. To me, it would be called "consideration" .. though we might have something really painful, joyful, spiteful, silly, sad, harsh .. whatever it is to address with the other .. but, if we can sense that thier mood isn't going to be receptive to discussing the issue at hand .. then all of us will divert away from what they really want to say and wait for a more opportune moment.

Neil Sedaka! I need to go listen to some Zeppelin or something to cleanse my ears now!

BTW autumn, IM envious of how well you know how to make posts on this website with the formatting and underlining and hyperlinking, etc. Warms a Virgos soul to see someone with those technical powers.

And I think I get what you mean by it not being exactly 'over'. Although as to my physical involvement, it has long been over. Just the mental portions are remaining to deal with. While I dont expect an invitation to the wedding, I still find myself at least being able to make the decision not to go, rather than her not invitiing me to go. Oh my god, Im turning into a woman with that last statement. Quick, somebody shoot me....


M&MGem, I liked the way you expressed your pov. Only thing I need to mention is the ages you assumed are off by half of what they actually are! We are both 40+. I will say that I find her way of dealing with lifes problems to be rather immature most times. I could give details for that fact to her credit (meaning stuff about her childhood and upbringing that didnt force her to become an adult), but thats irrelevant to my situation.

I just need to feel my closure on this whole thing. Like I said, its in my nature to remain friends with some women after we stop dating. Certainly not all of them, because in many cases, they are X-gf's for a very good reason! But for one that I was involved with for such a long part of my life, I find it hard to imagine she would reciprocate those same feelings. Well fuck her then. I hope her new relationship turns out to be a sqealing ball of hell thrown straight from Satans arm! Maybe get a case of the clap along the way? Maybe get pregnant and have a chiuld born with a....never mind, Im rambling now. Thast a sign of detachment, right? When you start visualising terrible things happening to someone?

Hey TB,

I'm going to add a few things to the discussion to throw in your head.

1. Several months back, I read something that prompted me to toss a question to our Lady Gems.

To love a twin is truly one of the harder tasks in romance. Because dating a Gemini is like dating two people with opposing points of view. One day he might love you, the next he might not. Unfortunately, the typical way to know if he has truly fallen is if he has dumped you (or come very close), flipped out about his decision, and then returned with complete and utter humility. Yes, it's crazy and true, but to find his real feelings he must swing between two different emotional situations and decide which he prefers. If he returns, it is a sincere sign of devotion.

Here's my original thread and some of the Lady Gems we're kind enough to give me their thoughts.

http://www.dxpnet.com/opinion/messages.asp?id=1085743<BR>
I'm honestly not sure if its applicable to your situation but for some reason reading your post reminded me of it.

2. TB: "I will say that I find her way of dealing with lifes problems to be rather immature most times."

I can't say I know a lot of Gems, but I can say this is particular to my Gem as well. It sometimes borders on a 'self destructive' way to deal with shit unfortunately. I think she's learning how to handle stuff better now thanks to me lol 😛

3. -Opportunists-
EmeraldGem: ........I know my kind. Think about it - opportunists live by their wits, the jackels of the zodiac. LOL - I don't mean that as a bad thing necessarily.....it's the way of survivors. Finding the shortest distance from point A to point B. It does not account for the feelings of others. We regret causing pain.....but I'm not so sure we'd alter our agendas for anyone. But we learn that we pay for our actions down the road - there's our punishment.

This sounds like what my Gem describes she was like when she was in her 20's. She'd be dating someone and get to a point where she was done with the relationship, but wouldn't end it. She'd pretend everything about their relationship was going well until the "next guy" came along upon which she dropped the relationship immediately and move on to the new guy. Time would pass and she would repeat the process over and over again. She paid for it later as the one guy she truly fell in love with abandoned her in a time of need. Unfortunately this just made her go bac

Ack got cut off

...Unfortunately this just made her go back to her old ways and the old cycle began once more.



Anyways, I've rambled on but I hope you find some peace to your thoughts soon.

Sorry to have sorta abandoned my threa. Dealing with a family emergency. But I will fill in some holes that may explain m,y ignorance towards her deception a bit better. Initially I wouldnt even consider going back out with her. I ended it for very specific reasons. But as I detailed, she began to increase her calling frequency and the subject matter gradually resumed the prior intimacy level we shared while dating. So during that buildup, I wasnt really concerned whether she was lying to me or not telling me all the truth, partial truth, whatever. Didnt matter. It wasnt until she really started to turn up the dial that the thought even entered my mind. And I never did ask her to go out for coffee or drinks or whatever, it was just starting to reach the level where I began to consider it. Also, during that time when I asked her about her dating, not only did she outright deny any, she also went into some excrutiating details to throw me off about her current affair with her Ex. Things like some really good looking guy at her office who asked her to go out, but she declined due to the wotk situation. Or some other guy who her girlfriend set her up with on a blind date, but she blew him off because of some coomment he made about her antiperpirant marks on her top or some other really detailed incident. In other words, she was casting stones in the pond to mask her true actions. But again, it didnt really matter because I was not in the 'peruit mode' when she was telling me these things. I was just looking for mutual feedback about people we were seeing. But whats got to be mentioned is that not only was she in a full-blown relationship with this other guy at the time, they had already begun discussing and agreeing on moving in together and getting engaged. Now, Im certain this guy had no idea she was playing this game on me. At least I cant imagine he did, because supposedly she was not allowed contact with me.

likeBrad: "If you got the hope for a retry, it was you own phantasy. And phantasy is cheap. It goes everywhere."

I feel you Brad. But this particular fantasy wasnt mine in the making! The only hope I might have felt was a recycled kind of 'familiar' relationship that was stillborn due to her manipulation. Maybe that was my fault allowing her to drive me in the direction she wanted me to go, toying me like a cat does a ball of yarn. For that, I'm guilty. But not of my own volition.

Im not a scorp, Im a virgo.

Didnt care if she was dating anyone else. I was seeing other people myself. I would be happy if she was seeing other people because I sure as hell wasnt going to marry the woman. Its got to do with me remaining friends with her, but she had to go and fuck it up by misleading me about her status. Dont understand why a Gem would do that? I am too good for her. Shes a tpos for doing this. I dont even want to be her friend anymore, now that I have seen how little she values that.

"Maybe that was my fault allowing her to drive me in the direction she wanted me to go, toying me like a cat does a ball of yarn."

"Didnt care if she was dating anyone else. I was seeing other people myself. I would be happy if she was seeing other people because I sure as hell wasnt going to marry the woman."

-------------------------------------

tollbooth, this is becoming clear to me now .. like Joey on Friends, sometimes it takes awhile for things to catch up 🙂


At first, I thought you were upset about HER because you've referenced not being able to find closure ... which at the time, threw me for a loop because it's not fathomable how a person cannot find closure while maintaining the person was a tosser = contridiction.

Now, I see a different motivation that's causing this angst, for above you said you didn't even care, were seeing other people and wouldn't have married her anyway .. while also saying you were "played".

So, it's not really her as a person, at all .. could have been anybody. It's the being toyed with, being manipulated that is the thorn in your side, that you can't find closure with ... and not to do with her being a Gemini.

I can see this, you being a Virgo .. everything has to be put in place, there has to be a reason. A very good Virgo friend of mine once told me that he found peace in his life by practicing one thing, and one thing only .....


Stop trying to make sense out of nonesense. For the longest time, he did this with everything .. and it was blowing his mind a part and making him crazy.

tollbooth .. it's nonesense .. stop trying to make sense out of it and you'll find the closure you need. 🙂

"Stop trying to make sense out of nonesense. For the longest time, he did this with everything .. and it was blowing his mind a part and making him crazy. tollbooth .. it's nonesense .. stop trying to make sense out of it and you'll find the closure you need."

Wise words, P-Angel. Its the nature of my Virg-beast to examine the facts, disect the details, and uncover the motive. Honestly I think the true answer is that she was just trying to hurt me out of retaliation for getting dumped. And she was successful at that.

If you really examine the details, you'd see that she desires to remain friends with her x-bf's. So the question for me becomes: "Why not me also?" Especially in light of the fact that we were together for such a long time? The fact that she would throw away any future friendship with me just to have her revenge does not compute.

It makes me feel like the whole relationship was a waste of time and effort. For a Virgo, that is the ultimate insult.

P Angel ..you are deffinitly correct, but thats easier said then done. Especially while going through it