Need Libran opinions

Just got a call from Mum and she says that my Dad is dying...he lives back in NZ and I'm in Auss. My brother also in NZ is flying up to see him. I thought about it for 2 seconds and then decided not to go. But I feel a little guilty...

He left me and my brothers when I was 5yrs old and I never saw him again until I was 16, I found him. No support was ever paid. He would visit his sister when she was alive occassionally, I was a very regular visitor with my Aunt, she was like my only relative growing up and I would take my kids there when he came so they could at least meet him and know him a little. Then as his sisters and family passed we saw each other at funerals etc. Funny enough even though I had only seen him a half dozen times throughtout my life, he was very familiar and it felt as if I knew him and he had always been there. ( Maybe because my Aunt and he had similar mannerisms and looks )

Anyway Fast Forward about 3 years ago after I moved to Aussie he asked me if he could come and visit. I welcomed him into my home with my children and he proceeded to sit at my breakfast bar every night for the first 4 nights at 5pm like clockwork and drink himself stupid. (Mum says it's a habit he developed after the army, sitting at the RSL with mates every night) I took offense to it, I mean how dare he after all these years do that around MY family, it was obvious to me that he hadnt changed at all. He was still a drunk loser father and I didnt want my kids to see anymore so I kicked him out and he went to stay with my brother for the remainder of his holiday.

I decided then that I wasnt interested in trying to keep a relationship with him, didnt talk much when he rang and never gave my new phone number when I moved. Problem is, as a Libran, will I regret feeling this cold? I am his favourite, the only girl out of 4 and he has always expressed that and mum confirmed through the years. He only ever wanted a daughter...so that makes me feel stink that he maybe on his death bed. Would you go see someone dying because you know it would mean alot to them?

I originally wrote a "screw him" post but after thinking about it for a while I personally think that if I was in the situation I would be ok with not going, but maybe a few months later or maybe even years down the line I may regret it. Think it would be one of those things that played on my mind.

These sort of decisions drive me crazy! Hope you manage to come to a decision that you are ok with 🙂

Thing is I've have tried all my life...when a daddy leaves a little girl and she is told that she is his favourite all her life but there is and hasnt been any evidence of it, even though there has been plenty of opportunities...you harden the fuck up and realise that your Real Dad (step dad) that bought you up from a teen is your father.

If I go back it would only be because the Libran in me cant hurt someone and it would be because he has asked for me...

Although after speaking to my brother tonight, his liver has packed up and he is home with his wife and maybe incoherent now. When my brother gets there tomorrow he will call and let me know..

The scales are going crazy and I dont know which way to go

I didn't lose a single tear over the death of my father Sweethearts. If I were you, I would probably go simply to make things easy with everyone. But I wouldn't lose any sleep over the loss if you know what I mean.

I'll voice the opposition. You are under no obligation to go. This person has not been a part of your life and you do not need to feel guilty if don't let them in now. If you WANT to go then do it; but, you do not HAVE to.

If I go back it would only be because the Libran in me cant hurt someone and it would be because he has asked for me...
I understand this feeling but what happened to this?
you harden the fuck up and realise that your Real Dad (step dad) that bought you up from a teen is your father.

I know that stuff like this can mess with your head but I think it does good to know at this point it's not about the other person anymore it is about you. You do not owe anyone anything.


Problem is, as a Libran, will I regret feeling this cold?
We will always second guess ourselves and everyone else. I have taken to knowing that I make the best decisions I can based on what I know at the time. I do not have regrets. There are things that I would do differently if presented with a similar opportunity but I wouldn't change anything in my past. I did what I thought was best at the time. What more can you ask of yourself? Hindsight may be 20/20 but you cannot judge based on that.

About 6 years ago he had his first real scare, he had bi-pass surgery and has tried to reach out in his way and then as his sisters dropped away, I think that's when he realised his mistakes, however all too late for 3 out of 4 of his children!

I'm going to pick up the phone tomorrow and speak to his wife and him if he can, I know there isnt a convienient time for this but right now I'm in the middle of some things that need me here, if I left I could only spare 3 days at the most!

And then there is the funeral...do I miss that to see him prior?

You should really forgive your father for his mistakes. We are not perfect!! Give him the closure he need so he can rest in peace!!!

You never know he may give you the closure you need to remove your resentment towards him. Don't return evil for evil, you cannot grow that way!

"Would you go see someone dying because you know it would mean alot to them?"

It's not someone, it's your father.

Go there, it prolly is a chance of release.

I disagree with love him because he is your father advice. Love is earned. Just because he is her father doesn't make him someone worthy of her time and attention. He choose who he wanted to be in this life. You will and should be judged by who you choose to be. He should have chosen differently. I really wish more people understood this concept. I suspect a hell of a lot of people would smarten up when they realize you are not entitled to anyone's good will. Sorry. I am stone cold on this point. I've seen too many people fucked up by selfish parents.

Phoning sounds like a good compromise. Although, then you are expected to talk to him more one on one. If you go, you can go in a group and not be one on one and be able to remain distant while being physically close. Know what I mean? Plus, you get to hang out with siblings etc.

True he fathered me and without him I wouldn't be here but then he left and has only ever contacted me for his own self-fish reasons (when he woke up because of health problems) I've asked him once to attend my daughters baptisim and he couldn't make it.

His pulling me out as favourite is unfair to my brothers, one of which he abused physically til he was 11 and the other who he didnt like because he should have been a girl...I'm 3 in line... when he visited he favoured one of my daughters and he openly expressed around the other two which annoyed!

Yes he is my father, but I don't like him and I wont regret it because I gave him chances to put things right, I welcomed him into my family and when he proved that he had no real regret and was simply the man that left four young children to a woman in a foreign country. The controlling abusive alcoholic that he is, I gave up!


I've decided : I dont want to go, I'll call and speak to his wife. My daughter (his favourite granddaughter) is on her way down there now. I will go to the funeral with my mother.

I have had a very few tears with that decision but I cry at anything, movies,(sometimes blubbering) I even cry if I see someone else crying...so I think that's all it is. Makes me wonder if all Librans are like that, big sookys!

I agree with the 2 LS's ...


Your father is the man who loved you by being there for your life, he's probably still there .. if your mother and him break up, he'll probably still WANT to be your father .. that man is your dad.


Blood doesn't make a person your family ... love makes a person your family.


And the part about being told all your life that you are his favorite is a crock of shit .. meanwhile he emotionally abuses you by ignoring you. All are of you guys in here mad? Is it ok for a guy to beat the fuck out of you, so long as he *tell* you he loves you?


You are being selfish here and thinking only of yourself and how YOU feel, YOUR guilt ..


... what about the man who raised you and loves you and actually WANTS to be your dad? do you even care a smidgeon that maybe he might be upset that you would give an drunken fool that much credit? Sure he might not say it, because he is your dad and wants you to be happy .... but, I guarantee you he feels it.

Put yourself in his place .... if you loved, cared for and was there 24/7 for a child and that child called the woman who emotinally neglected her, "mum" wouldn't you be fucking devastated?

In the OP and according to what the majority of the Libras have said in here ... it's the guilt factor that would make you make wrong choices in life, guilt would make you disregard your principals .. you know the principals you had when he got drunk as fuck at your house and it made you kick him out.


Guilt will make you forget you have pride?

Now I understand the Libra a tad better with their indecisiveness .... they wiegh out whether they can live with themselves.

Another thing .... I disagree with whomever said that you obviously feel like you want to go.


There's a difference between action and reaction ...... action is what you decide to do, how you decide you are going to handle something .... reaction isn't calculated, it is how you feel.


so, what you feel is what you realized on those two seconds upon hearing the news.

I didn't realize Libras were so emotionally afraid of their own feelings like this .. seriously.


Are you really holding rage?


Really?



Sweets, I just dont' so ... certainly, I've recognized fear in you before and have even mentioned it .. but, anger?


What are you mad about? Because he left you?

so, once I talk in here and give my opinion that you should follow the heart, rather than your fear of guilt ... and people start chanting GoGoGo


Don't you think that chant is geared more towards defying me, rather than anything for you?

My mother has asked me to go with her..she is not an emotional woman by any means (asian) but today spoke out through tears begging at me to forgive him for myself. She says if she can forgive him for everything that she went through then we as his children should be able to do the same. She wants to go and say goodbye, she also said without him she/we wouldn't be in the position we are today living freely in a great country.

We also need to make sure that he is put into care at a home, his wife is also old and frail and cant take care of him. He cant walk, but still tries to do things for himself which results in falling and then she cant pick him back up not to mention batheing and toilet. But he is a stubborn fuck and doesn't want to go into care and she hasnt the strength/heart to force him!

I guess it comes down to putting my feelings aside and stepping up. He has very few people/family that care and that in itself has to be a wake up call!

@ P,
my step dad is the biggest kid, he's Libran too and hasnt got a bad bone in his body. His biggest fault is that he cant keep anything a secret, which was great for us, especially around Xmas because he use to hint to us about what they had bought for our presents. Never watch a movie with him that he has seen though because he'll tell you the end before you get to it!! lol



On my fathers visit here, they got on fine and my father even thanked Dad for taking care of his family. We shared meals together nearly everynight for the 3 week stay. He knows that I think of him as my Dad without a doubt! But I will talk to him tomorrow just to make sure he understands and is fine with it, but I know he will be he's so selfless.


Thanks everyone for your input, the last 2 days have been mentally draining trying to sort through this.

go just to tell him off in his deathbed?




wow .. I digress ... you guys are way too emotionally cruel for me.


Good luck figuring this out Sweets .. luv ya babe 🙂


Out

And no I'm not angry...I'm numb and have no expectations of this man anymore. When I kicked him out after my eyes were opened to the man that he was, I believe I found the peace that I needed... prior to that I had a fantasy dad, the one I had created in my head from a little girl.

Sweets, I want to ask you a question, make a reality comment and then I'll leave you alone ...

"I guess it comes down to putting my feelings aside and stepping up. He has very few people/family that care and that in itself has to be a wake up call!"


If this man has nobody to care about him due to his own carelessness/ignorance of others feelings, and then people rush to him emotionally in support of him anyway ... then how exactly is that a wakeup call?

If you go, you go for your mum .. in which case has nothing to do with your self-inflicted guilt of not caring about the man who neglected, therefore, going under those circumstances will only create more guilt because you would have caused more falseness instead of realness to your feelings.

Posted by sweethearts
And no I'm not angry...I'm numb and have no expectations of this man anymore. When I kicked him out after my eyes were opened to the man that he was, I believe I found the peace that I needed... prior to that I had a fantasy dad, the one I had created in my head from a little girl.

thank you .. I knew you were real 🙂

Posted by TasteOfChaos
just for closure for myself...

I think you should too, I think above all else... you deserve an apology...
You might regret NOT going... but I doubt you would regret seeing him for the last time...

Regrets can eat away at you... and do you really want him to have ANOTHER issue burning at you?

You dont have to want to go... I sure as hell dont! but I think you need to just to say goodbye...

*Golden advice*


Not a Libra...but I was going to tell you the same thing.
You will never regret saying goodbye to your father...but you will probably regret not doing do.
Forgive him for yourself if nothing else. Bitterness in your heart will only eat away at you.

Go and say your peace. Let him go for good.

I can't imagine how confusing emotioanlly this must be for you. 😢
I am sorry you're going through this.

Posted by brianafay

Posted by TasteOfChaos

I think you should too, I think above all else... you deserve an apology...

click to expand

What?


Someone needs to explain this to me because apparantly I missed it ... going to see him means he's going to apologize to you?

You should go because you deserve an apology?

I don't get that ..... isn't an apology only real because the apologizer WANTS to give one ... does an apology count if it's intention is to passify?

He could never apologize to sweethearts....the damage is done.

His wake up call is that there is no one there for him, the only people there are 1 out of 3 sons, me and 1 of my daughters, a nephew, his sister my mother and his wife and her son.

In over 70 years of life and only 8 people to see you before you go—

Maybe that wont be something that he thinks about...it's more that that's how I would feel if it were reversed!

I'm sure he realizes. But it's too late? He lived his life the way he wanted to and he is facing the consequences now. He will leave with much unfinished business...let him go so he's not a part of your unfinished business.

You know what I mean?

Yeah I do and thanks for the kind thoughts Bri 🙂


I am at peace with my decision now. I'm not going for guilt, I'm going for my mother and I can feel the weight over the past 2 days has been lifted from my shoulders.

Posted by sweethearts

I am at peace with my decision now. I'm not going for guilt, I'm going for my mother and I can feel the weight over the past 2 days has been lifted from my shoulders.

🙂 I'm glad you found peace about it.

Posted by sweethearts
but today spoke out through tears begging at me to forgive him for myself. She says if she can forgive him for everything that she went through then we as his children should be able to do the same. She wants to go and say goodbye, she also said without him she/we wouldn't be in the position we are today living freely in a great country.

I will agree with forgiving him but like many of you told me a few months ago, forgiving someone does not mean they have to remain a part of your life.

The question here isn't really on if you go or not... that doesn't matter. What matters is why you make your choice. If YOU want to or not. You do not have to make sure he gets into a good home, he is not your responsibility.

Anyone that has seen me post before knows I am not a cold hearted person even if this sounds like it. I just want to make sure the point gets across that YOU DON'T OWE HIM ANYTHING.

Love and respect are earned. Yes people generally blindly give them to family but keeping it should still be earned.


Not just for sweets but everyone telling her to go... why?

What is the purpose?

To support her mom? That's actually a good reason.
Obligation because it's her father? Puh-lease!
To avoid guilt in the future? Guilt of what? You feel bad for cutting toxic people out of your life?

I am not saying you should not go. I'm just saying don't let anyone or anything force you to do it.

i say go... no matter how bad of a father he is... he is still your father, i will regret it if i was in your shoes later on in life,

I've watched all four of my grandparents die, 4 inlaws (from 2 marriages), both of my parents and my sister die.


None of them had revelations about the people they hurt, nor were they concerned about who was with them as they died.


They were all concerned about that fact that they were dying, and were all very self-absorbed about thier pain/reality of their life diminishing.

They were grandparents: Capricorn, Virgo, Aqua & Gemini ... inlaws: Aries, Libra, Gemini, Libra .. parents: Scorpio, Aqua .. sister: Taurus


No epiphany or miraculous revelation ... if you are expecting him to release you from some sort of guilt you have chained yourself up with ... you are in for a disappointment.

I understand the regret part .. I don't understand why this guilt/regret issue seems to be so huge with Libras .. for every one of you mentioned it.

I can P, I've seen 5 close friends die and I have regretted alot of things that I didnt do or say before they passed away.



They were all concerned about that fact that they were dying, and were all very self-absorbed about thier pain/reality of their life diminishing.

And I've seen that too, and who can blame them? It isn't easy to die, it's unnatuaral and alot of the time your bodies wont give in easily, breathing can become very slow and differcult. One of my friends just cried and said it was too hard to go on any longer yet even though he willed it, he didnt leave straight away but was still there for over a week and mostly in and out of conscienceness til the point of not being there at all. The people watching on are the ones suffering in silence....

I wasnt expecting any revelations, he's a stubborn fuck and this cycle runs in our family. He never saw his own father for years and refused to go to the funeral, hated him! He had previously mentioned to me not to be stubborn like a M....... (our surname) and to let things go. My oldest brother will be the one that continues that cycle...

Regret is huge to you Libras, isn't it?

It's just hard for me to fathom because I would never feel regret over something like that .... if the man wanted to be an outcast, then he probably wants to die one.

I do.


I'd run the fuck away and go commit suicide if I thought a bunch of people that I didn't even want in my life tried to pretend that I did care about them and came to watch me die.


Get the fuck outta here

"I can P, I've seen 5 close friends die and I have regretted alot of things that I didnt do or say before they passed away.'



Indeed ... but, dont' confuse a close friend with the man who didn't love you, who didn't care if you were fed and nurtured.



He'll probably treat you the exact same as he always has .... an ass doesn't change simply because you have feelings that are hard to live with. If that were the case, then the world would be a happy place.

My concern is that you will get hurt even further, and you dont' deserve that Sweets ...


If you go, and I know you've made the decision to go .... just make sure you dont' have any expectations that he's going to release you from feeling like you've done soemthing wrong to make him leave you ..... because there is nothing for him to release you from, because you didn't do anythign to make him leave you.

I do understand the part about going with your mother to be her support ... I would probably go for that reason.

Posted by TasteOfChaos

Posted by P-Angel
Regret is huge to you Libras, isn't it?

It's just hard for me to fathom because I would never feel regret over something like that .... if the man wanted to be an outcast, then he probably wants to die one.

I do.


I'd run the fuck away and go commit suicide if I thought a bunch of people that I didn't even want in my life tried to pretend that I did care about them and came to watch me die.


Get the fuck outta here

You dont believe people can change and wanna make things right before they die?

click to expand

It's not a matter of whether I believe they can or not .. it's a matter of how a person is by choice. You, her, me, anyone could want a person to change .. but, that doesn't mean shit. The person has to want to .. so, it's not about a belief in it.

people are who they are, and they are this way because they want to this way .. and my point was, if I were dying right now, and people tried to come to be with me on my deathbed that I didn't care about .. then I would make them leave.

And the point was .. he might not even want the people there who he didn't care about ... so, just make sure this rushing to his side isn't with some kind of false hope that you are rescuing him because he might tell you to go fuck yourself .... afterall, that's basically what he did when he abandoned his family, didn't he? maybe not in words, but, actions.

Posted by TasteOfChaos

Posted by P-Angel
Regret is huge to you Libras, isn't it?

It's just hard for me to fathom because I would never feel regret over something like that .... if the man wanted to be an outcast, then he probably wants to die one.

I do.


I'd run the fuck away and go commit suicide if I thought a bunch of people that I didn't even want in my life tried to pretend that I did care about them and came to watch me die.


Get the fuck outta here

You dont believe people can change and wanna make things right before they die?

click to expand

Also ... you have to consider what is right. By "right" you mean by how YOU feel is right.

Take me for example .... if I send you away with a stick shoved up your ass, then that is right by me and how I feel. So, if you came to me thinking I want to make things right by your standards, then maybe I'd have to find another stick to remind you that I determine what is right by me, not you.

get it?

So, by saying to make things right .... you are talking from YOUR perspective of right, and your perspective of right is only accurate from your point of view ... by my POV, right is finding a stick.


The only thing a dying person is worried about making right is by god .. .. so, unless you're god ......