libra sun
@libra sun
16 Years1,000+ PostsLibra
Comments: 4 · Posts: 1697 · Topics: 71
Chivalry vs Equality
Buying a drink for a woman have not met before is not common chivalry I think. It may seem right to him but normally an action like that would imply that the man's intentions swim deeper than chivalry.
Chivalry doesn't mean buying everything for her.
Chivalry means courage, loyalty, honor, and service... and no it is not dead 🙂
I took a female friend out for lunch the other week (just friends). We each paid our own way but I held open every door we came to, I pulled out her chair, etc. When you type things like this it seems odd but it doesn't seem out of place at the time. It's part of who I am. That's the thing with chivalry, it's about who you are. I even walk closest to the street no matter who I am with.
I do not buy drinks for girls at the bar, I see no reason to. I'm actually against the idea of doing it. It feels like "will you talk to me if I buy you a drink" and that is... well, weak. Plus, what if I buy her a drink and she's a weirdo? Would he still say it's the "right thing to do" to sit and keep talking if he wasn't interested? Just go talk to people. They'll either like you or they won't.
Too many people try to act different to impress someone. What the guy you described did was not chivalry, it was trying to buy approval.
I'd actually say that chivalry leads to equality. Don't do good things because you expect a certain result. Do it because it's good or helps someone else... and do it for everyone. I hold doors for strangers too.
Chivalry means courage, loyalty, honor, and service... and no it is not dead 🙂
I took a female friend out for lunch the other week (just friends). We each paid our own way but I held open every door we came to, I pulled out her chair, etc. When you type things like this it seems odd but it doesn't seem out of place at the time. It's part of who I am. That's the thing with chivalry, it's about who you are. I even walk closest to the street no matter who I am with.
I do not buy drinks for girls at the bar, I see no reason to. I'm actually against the idea of doing it. It feels like "will you talk to me if I buy you a drink" and that is... well, weak. Plus, what if I buy her a drink and she's a weirdo? Would he still say it's the "right thing to do" to sit and keep talking if he wasn't interested? Just go talk to people. They'll either like you or they won't.
Too many people try to act different to impress someone. What the guy you described did was not chivalry, it was trying to buy approval.
I'd actually say that chivalry leads to equality. Don't do good things because you expect a certain result. Do it because it's good or helps someone else... and do it for everyone. I hold doors for strangers too.
Omg...not even close for me. Chivalry 100000% .
I honestly find that chivalry makes me feel much more powerful than 'equality' ever could. In fact, I'll take it a step further and say it empowers both myself and my significant other. Its a win-win situation. So equality can kiss my ass! 😄
Great topic.
I honestly find that chivalry makes me feel much more powerful than 'equality' ever could. In fact, I'll take it a step further and say it empowers both myself and my significant other. Its a win-win situation. So equality can kiss my ass! 😄
Great topic.
I think BOTH are equally important. And both should be given in moderation.
Chivarly is still important b/c even though times are changing, women still like to get the sense that a man is ok with being the provider. And women nowadays still like getting that sense just like women back then did.
It may sound silly, but men & women back then believed that there were subtle ways men could immediately show a woman his sense of what it means to provide. And men showed this by doing the little things like paying for dinners, opening doors, etc. Now obviously, women these days are alot smarter & more hip to the game, so we now know that just b/c a man buys us something it doesn't mean shxt! There are plenty of "pretenders." Nowadays, there's really no real way to know/prove a man is a solid provider unless you live with him and/or put him in certain financial situations.
Equality is important too, b/c it's just as important to a man to know that JUST IN CASE, she can hold her own too. Women may hate men that can't provide for them, well guess what? Men hate women who expect them to do it all even if they too are capable. Relationships shouldn't be all about 1 person/side doing more than the other just to prove a point. When 2 people love eachother, they should both give & receive equally. Same goes with laundry, cooking and/or raising the children. BOTH people should equally contribute.
Plus men like to be spoiled too. Whereas a woman sees a man paying for her drink (or anything) as her way of knowing he's a provider, men see a woman occassionally paying for his things as her being sweet/self-less enough to actually do something for HIM for once! That kind of stuff really matters to men. They want/need gifts & to be spoiled sometimes too.
I think couples should alternate. 1 night the man pays for the entire date; the other night the woman picks up the tab. That way, the friendship/relationship is already starting off on balanced/equal terms =)
Chivarly is still important b/c even though times are changing, women still like to get the sense that a man is ok with being the provider. And women nowadays still like getting that sense just like women back then did.
It may sound silly, but men & women back then believed that there were subtle ways men could immediately show a woman his sense of what it means to provide. And men showed this by doing the little things like paying for dinners, opening doors, etc. Now obviously, women these days are alot smarter & more hip to the game, so we now know that just b/c a man buys us something it doesn't mean shxt! There are plenty of "pretenders." Nowadays, there's really no real way to know/prove a man is a solid provider unless you live with him and/or put him in certain financial situations.
Equality is important too, b/c it's just as important to a man to know that JUST IN CASE, she can hold her own too. Women may hate men that can't provide for them, well guess what? Men hate women who expect them to do it all even if they too are capable. Relationships shouldn't be all about 1 person/side doing more than the other just to prove a point. When 2 people love eachother, they should both give & receive equally. Same goes with laundry, cooking and/or raising the children. BOTH people should equally contribute.
Plus men like to be spoiled too. Whereas a woman sees a man paying for her drink (or anything) as her way of knowing he's a provider, men see a woman occassionally paying for his things as her being sweet/self-less enough to actually do something for HIM for once! That kind of stuff really matters to men. They want/need gifts & to be spoiled sometimes too.
I think couples should alternate. 1 night the man pays for the entire date; the other night the woman picks up the tab. That way, the friendship/relationship is already starting off on balanced/equal terms =)
The same goes for wedding rings. Idk about now, but back in the day a man giving a woman an engagement ring was a symbol to the bride's/fiance's family that he could provide/protect their daughter. Technically, it's just a freakin' ring & nowadays anybody can buy anybody a ring, BUT back then engagement rings spoke volumes about the men. That is another reason why men often had to get permission from his fiance's family to marry her.
This is how I see chivalry in terms of a man paying for a woman. Technically, a man can spend millions on you & not give a flying damn about you BUT the symbolism though is that if a man pays for a woman, that he can provide for her long-term persay the relationship were to progress to marriage.
Buying a drink for me isn't necessarily what I consider chivarly, b/c nowadays people are crazy! Instead of thinking "Awww how sweet!" I'd probably be paranoid & worried to see if he spiked/put something in my drink! And depending on the circumstances, I might even question why he'd buy a drink for me, a complete stranger, considering I didn't ask for it or haven't yet spoken a word to him.
This is how I see chivalry in terms of a man paying for a woman. Technically, a man can spend millions on you & not give a flying damn about you BUT the symbolism though is that if a man pays for a woman, that he can provide for her long-term persay the relationship were to progress to marriage.
Buying a drink for me isn't necessarily what I consider chivarly, b/c nowadays people are crazy! Instead of thinking "Awww how sweet!" I'd probably be paranoid & worried to see if he spiked/put something in my drink! And depending on the circumstances, I might even question why he'd buy a drink for me, a complete stranger, considering I didn't ask for it or haven't yet spoken a word to him.
"never let yourself be financially dependent on a man as if you ever need to get out of the relationship you are screwed" and I stick to that advice"
How can this be compared to a man buying a woman a drink? It doesn't make her dependent on him at all, its just the way it goes.
I don't understand why women are so against men behaving like men. There is nothing wrong with a man buying you a drink, paying for your meal if he takes you out, etc. Its not to mean you aren't independent, just that you're a lady and he is a man.
I would be completely turned off by a man who wanted me to pay for dinner on a date. And yes, if I am at a bar and a man and I begin talking, there is nothing wrong with him buying me a drink.
This feminism stuff has gone to the heads of too many women. What does all this even have to do with equality?
How can this be compared to a man buying a woman a drink? It doesn't make her dependent on him at all, its just the way it goes.
I don't understand why women are so against men behaving like men. There is nothing wrong with a man buying you a drink, paying for your meal if he takes you out, etc. Its not to mean you aren't independent, just that you're a lady and he is a man.
I would be completely turned off by a man who wanted me to pay for dinner on a date. And yes, if I am at a bar and a man and I begin talking, there is nothing wrong with him buying me a drink.
This feminism stuff has gone to the heads of too many women. What does all this even have to do with equality?
Posted by MsPisces.
"never let yourself be financially dependent on a man as if you ever need to get out of the relationship you are screwed" and I stick to that advice"
How can this be compared to a man buying a woman a drink? It doesn't make her dependent on him at all, its just the way it goes. I don't understand why women are so against men behaving like men. There is nothing wrong with a man buying you a drink, paying for your meal if he takes you out, etc. Its not to mean you aren't independent, just that you're a lady and he is a man.
But here's my thing. I agree that a woman isn't any less of a woman and/or independent if she allows a man to pay her way, BUT I don't think it's fair to insinuate that a man isn't a "man" simply b/c he won't pay for her. Some men have their reasons for why they don't pay for certain women & usually those reasons are actually very valid reasons.
If a man can provide for HIMSELF, he is a man. Whether or not someone period (male or female) can provide for themselves paints the best picture of what they can do for someone else.
But it'd be unfair of me to say that a man isn't being "the man" simply b/c he refuses to provide entirely for me. I mean I agree with the men on this one. Ladies love to claim full independence but yet they get short-term memory loss the minute the bill/tab comes.
If a man wouldn't pay for my drink, I wouldn't consider him any less of a man. If a man doesn't pay for/entertain my expensive shopping tastes, he's no less of a man. Now if I lived with my man & yet he never helped out with the bills and/or if he always got ghost the minute the bills are due, THAT'd be a different story.
Idk, I just think the code for which women consider men "A real man" is a bit shallow too. It's about 2 people who BOTH have it together/independent who just so happen to not mind giving to the other person out of love/companionship. Technically, a man doesn't owe a woman anything. And the women who can provide for themselves never have a problem with that. It's usually the women who want to sit at home & be trophy wives & let the man do everything that usually are quick to call out definitions of what a "real man" is. I'm not saying that's what you're doing, but hey it's true. Alot of the women who are only independent PART-TIME are always trying to measure a man's "manhood"/worth based on what he will/won't buy her
When I'm trying to measure a man's worth in the "provider" department, it's not about me. I could care less what he is/isn't buy for me. Hell, a man can spend millions on a woman he doesn't give 2 shxts about.
As with anything, all people like to know that when they are giving something, they will get credit for it vs. simply giving w/o any effort or feelings being behind it.
If you'll notice, alot of the men who don't pay for women usually only don't pay for CERTAIN women. They may not splurge on the women they don't take seriously and/or see themselves with long-term, b/c if they did, they'd be fools to invest in someone they already know 1. Won't last much longer & 2. Wouldn't invest in them.
Alot of men actually don't mind paying, & from what I've been told, it's just that they'd prefer to show their "providing" side to the women they feel actually matter/count. Can you really blaim them for that? I can't blaim a man for not buying the drink or dress for the woman he just met. Most people's 1st priority when they meet someone new is to see if that person is even what they're looking for & as with anything, men are human beings too; they don't go out of their way to show everything they're worth to a woman they're not even sure is worth it yet. And if you'll notice, when men actually do find the women they feel are "worth it," they won't mind paying for everything and/or atleast most of it.
Men aren't stupid, they know that alot of women nowadays think they're entitled to what's in someone else's wallet even if they've technically done nothing to earn it. Men know that women use them sometimes simply for a free meal. Some women only bring out that "Men should pay for everything/manhood" shxt when they want a man to entertain their expensive tastes, b/c they secretely don't want to foot the bill. And if you think about it, that's a mindset that's deprived from selfishness.
As a woman, I don't mind cooking, cleaning, raising the kids, etc. Ya know, the things that society says "women" should do. BUT I'd be 10Xs more willing to do those things for a man who doesn't make me feel like he's entitled to it. I'd be more willing to a man who doesn't make me feel that cooking is my job/obligation, b/c that takes all the fun out of it. I will cook for my man simply b/c I enjoy doing so & not b/c he'll think I'm less of a woman if I don't
As with anything, all people like to know that when they are giving something, they will get credit for it vs. simply giving w/o any effort or feelings being behind it.
If you'll notice, alot of the men who don't pay for women usually only don't pay for CERTAIN women. They may not splurge on the women they don't take seriously and/or see themselves with long-term, b/c if they did, they'd be fools to invest in someone they already know 1. Won't last much longer & 2. Wouldn't invest in them.
Alot of men actually don't mind paying, & from what I've been told, it's just that they'd prefer to show their "providing" side to the women they feel actually matter/count. Can you really blaim them for that? I can't blaim a man for not buying the drink or dress for the woman he just met. Most people's 1st priority when they meet someone new is to see if that person is even what they're looking for & as with anything, men are human beings too; they don't go out of their way to show everything they're worth to a woman they're not even sure is worth it yet. And if you'll notice, when men actually do find the women they feel are "worth it," they won't mind paying for everything and/or atleast most of it.
Men aren't stupid, they know that alot of women nowadays think they're entitled to what's in someone else's wallet even if they've technically done nothing to earn it. Men know that women use them sometimes simply for a free meal. Some women only bring out that "Men should pay for everything/manhood" shxt when they want a man to entertain their expensive tastes, b/c they secretely don't want to foot the bill. And if you think about it, that's a mindset that's deprived from selfishness.
As a woman, I don't mind cooking, cleaning, raising the kids, etc. Ya know, the things that society says "women" should do. BUT I'd be 10Xs more willing to do those things for a man who doesn't make me feel like he's entitled to it. I'd be more willing to a man who doesn't make me feel that cooking is my job/obligation, b/c that takes all the fun out of it. I will cook for my man simply b/c I enjoy doing so & not b/c he'll think I'm less of a woman if I don't
Posted by MsPisces.
"never let yourself be financially dependent on a man as if you ever need to get out of the relationship you are screwed" and I stick to that advice"
How can this be compared to a man buying a woman a drink? It doesn't make her dependent on him at all, its just the way it goes.
I don't understand why women are so against men behaving like men. There is nothing wrong with a man buying you a drink, paying for your meal if he takes you out, etc. Its not to mean you aren't independent, just that you're a lady and he is a man.
I would be completely turned off by a man who wanted me to pay for dinner on a date. And yes, if I am at a bar and a man and I begin talking, there is nothing wrong with him buying me a drink.
This feminism stuff has gone to the heads of too many women. What does all this even have to do with equality?
It wasnt being compared they are two seperate points which was why they were not writen together.
To me gender equality should have no influence on our use of common courtesy. I think everyone should be chivilrous towards eachother. Is it nice when a guy wants to take you out? of course it is, but I also feel nice when I take a guy out. If a guy feels less of a man because he is having his drink paid for or a woman feels he is less of a man because he didnt pay for her drink then that is their issue. I earned more than twice as much as my ex, so why should he be the one who paid for all the dates?
I am not a damsel in a tower or a fair maiden, I do not need a night in shining armour, do I want respect and loyalty? of course I do, as thats the way I treat others.
I especially agree with Librasids point about holding doors open, I do it for everyone, if i was on a date with a guy and he held it open for me than let it swing in the guy behind me's face then I would not be impressed lol.
Also I agree with the comments about FAKE chivalry. It is not chivalry if you are only doing it to get a girl to drop her pants!
I hear you Krys, but I think you're over complicating things.
Atleast for me, I have no hidden agendas, nor am I selfish, looking for a meal ticket, etc. I do fairly well for myself. Perhaps I'm old school, but I just believe that if a man is courting a woman, he should pick up the bill on dates. That's how it has always been in my family, as well. If I go out to dinner with one of my brothers,an uncle, one of my male cousins, etc....they will pick up the tab. Its just the way it is. Of course if a man can't afford it, that's a different story, but then...I probably wouldn't be dating a man who couldn't afford dinner either, so.
Eh. Different strokes for different folks. I'm not expecting to go on shopping sprees and all that other stuff. Of course, if he wants to take me shopping thats great too 🙂 At the end of the day though, there are certain things men do just as there are certain things women do. If you take me out on a date and split the bill in half, I won't be dating you again. It's just tacky to ask a woman out on a date and then go dutch.
Atleast for me, I have no hidden agendas, nor am I selfish, looking for a meal ticket, etc. I do fairly well for myself. Perhaps I'm old school, but I just believe that if a man is courting a woman, he should pick up the bill on dates. That's how it has always been in my family, as well. If I go out to dinner with one of my brothers,an uncle, one of my male cousins, etc....they will pick up the tab. Its just the way it is. Of course if a man can't afford it, that's a different story, but then...I probably wouldn't be dating a man who couldn't afford dinner either, so.
Eh. Different strokes for different folks. I'm not expecting to go on shopping sprees and all that other stuff. Of course, if he wants to take me shopping thats great too 🙂 At the end of the day though, there are certain things men do just as there are certain things women do. If you take me out on a date and split the bill in half, I won't be dating you again. It's just tacky to ask a woman out on a date and then go dutch.
"I am not a damsel in a tower or a fair maiden, I do not need a night in shining armour,"
Again, this is all too dramatic. A man buying a woman a drink or paying for dinner does not make her some sort of damsel lol Its really not that serious, ladies! Its dinner!
Again, this is all too dramatic. A man buying a woman a drink or paying for dinner does not make her some sort of damsel lol Its really not that serious, ladies! Its dinner!
Posted by MsPisces.
"I am not a damsel in a tower or a fair maiden, I do not need a night in shining armour,"
Again, this is all too dramatic. A man buying a woman a drink or paying for dinner does not make her some sort of damsel lol Its really not that serious, ladies! Its dinner!
lol well I have been told i'm a drama queen 😛
but seriously if having a pair of balls means you should pay for dinner, then maybe having a pair of balls should also mean you should get higher pay and status at work? Why should women get paid the same as a man if he's footing the bill?
Well, considering they *do* get higher pay and status..... lol
Just because I think a man should pay for dinner if he asks me out, does not mean I think he should pay my way for everything throughout life lol Its only dinner. Oh, and maybe a drink or two 😉
Just because I think a man should pay for dinner if he asks me out, does not mean I think he should pay my way for everything throughout life lol Its only dinner. Oh, and maybe a drink or two 😉
Men have a hell of a lot of expectations from women and that's fine. In fact, a lot of the things us women do are done to attract and keep a man, whether consciously done or not. But if a woman expects a mere dinner on a date, she's some sort of gold digging trick lol SMH.
Posted by MsPisces.
Just because I think a man should pay for dinner if he asks me out, does not mean I think he should pay my way for everything throughout life lol Its only dinner. Oh, and maybe a drink or two 😉
I actually agree here too.
If I ask you out, I intend to pay. Dating is different than walking up to a stranger and buying them drinks.
Posted by krysrenee7
If you'll notice, alot of the men who don't pay for women usually only don't pay for CERTAIN women. They may not splurge on the women they don't take seriously and/or see themselves with long-term, b/c if they did, they'd be fools to invest in someone they already know 1. Won't last much longer & 2. Wouldn't invest in them.
Alot of men actually don't mind paying, & from what I've been told, it's just that they'd prefer to show their "providing" side to the women they feel actually matter/count. Can you really blaim them for that? I can't blaim a man for not buying the drink or dress for the woman he just met. Most people's 1st priority when they meet someone new is to see if that person is even what they're looking for & as with anything, men are human beings too; they don't go out of their way to show everything they're worth to a woman they're not even sure is worth it yet. And if you'll notice, when men actually do find the women they feel are "worth it," they won't mind paying for everything and/or atleast most of it.
THIS!
No entitlement on either side. Once I'm in, I will pay for everything and not give it a second thought. I do this with friends regularly too, we take turns. It almost becomes a game sometimes. Last Friday I went out with a bunch of people after work. Everyone goes paying their own way but bills get mixed. When one of us orders a drink everyone does. Sometimes they all get thrown on one tab, no one pays attention. Then we leave the pool hall and someone already paid for the games. We headed out for dinner and a few more drinks and someone else just tells the waitress to make it one tab.
I have no problem spending money but to hell with you if you expect it. It's just money, I'll get more. That's not what it's about.
Posted by krysrenee7
As a woman, I don't mind cooking, cleaning, raising the kids, etc. Ya know, the things that society says "women" should do. BUT I'd be 10Xs more willing to do those things for a man who doesn't make me feel like he's entitled to it. I'd be more willing to a man who doesn't make me feel that cooking is my job/obligation, b/c that takes all the fun out of it. I will cook for my man simply b/c I enjoy doing so & not b/c he'll think I'm less of a woman if I don'tclick to expand
Yeah this too! Ha ha. Da
Posted by ShadowsPosted by CappyyLuv30
I may also have developed a little crush for him right about now lol 😉
😄click to expand
Victory!
x2
😛
Posted by LibraSidPosted by MsPisces.
Just because I think a man should pay for dinner if he asks me out, does not mean I think he should pay my way for everything throughout life lol Its only dinner. Oh, and maybe a drink or two 😉
I actually agree here too.
If I ask you out, I intend to pay. Dating is different than walking up to a stranger and buying them drinks.click to expand
Yea I agree. I hate when guys try to buy you a drink when you haven't even exchanged more than two words, as if its impressing or something. I'm just saying, if I'm having a conversation w/ a guy...we're vibing, etc. and I order another drink and he says its on me, then that's a nice gesture, imo. I think its the gentlemen thing to do.
"Once I'm in, I will pay for everything and not give it a second thought. I do this with friends regularly too, we take turns. It almost becomes a game sometimes. Last Friday I went out with a bunch of people after work. Everyone goes paying their own way but bills get mixed. When one of us orders a drink everyone does. Sometimes they all get thrown on one tab, no one pays attention. Then we leave the pool hall and someone already paid for the games. We headed out for dinner and a few more drinks and someone else just tells the waitress to make it one tab."
Yep same here. I have no problem taking the tab when I'm out with my girlfriends and such. I hate doing the math trying to split the bill and all that. Unless the bill is outrageous because there is a lot of us, I usually offer to pay.
Yep same here. I have no problem taking the tab when I'm out with my girlfriends and such. I hate doing the math trying to split the bill and all that. Unless the bill is outrageous because there is a lot of us, I usually offer to pay.
hat this got cut off...
Posted by LibraSidPosted by krysrenee7
As a woman, I don't mind cooking, cleaning, raising the kids, etc. Ya know, the things that society says "women" should do. BUT I'd be 10Xs more willing to do those things for a man who doesn't make me feel like he's entitled to it. I'd be more willing to a man who doesn't make me feel that cooking is my job/obligation, b/c that takes all the fun out of it. I will cook for my man simply b/c I enjoy doing so & not b/c he'll think I'm less of a woman if I don't
Yeah this too! Ha ha. Daclick to expand
I said...
Yeah this too! Ha ha. Damn guys, it's not "her job". Do this kind of stuff together whenever possible anyway. Do things for each other just because you can. If she does something for you and you appreciate it, tell her that. Talking about raising kids and taking care of a house imply very long term, you should have become a team by that point. Help each other, work together.
That's what I meant when I said chivalry leads to equality in a relationship.
I want and think there should be both.
Posted by libra sunPosted by MsPisces.
"I am not a damsel in a tower or a fair maiden, I do not need a night in shining armour,"
Again, this is all too dramatic. A man buying a woman a drink or paying for dinner does not make her some sort of damsel lol Its really not that serious, ladies! Its dinner!
seriously if having a pair of balls means you should pay for dinner, then maybe having a pair of balls should also mean you should get higher pay and status at work? Why should women get paid the same as a man if he's footing the bill?click to expand
Girl, that just took the 'chival' out of chivalry! 😄
Keeping score negates the concept all together, no?
See, when I hear the word chivalry money is really the last thing that comes to mind. For me...its mainly protection, respect, and gentle kindness. All qualities found in a gentleman.
Now....where the hell ARE the gentlemen?
Everywhere I go I'm prepared to pay my own way and do for myself, if the situation arises and the gentleman takes the lead to pay I have no problem with that. I especially like it if they do the little things like opening doors for you moreso than paying for you. I remember my brother being the first to open a car door and close it when he took me out once, I was younger and didnt understand his gentlemanly ways but it felt nice and I totally understand why he had woman flocking for him.
However in a bar situation I'm not likely to take a drink off a stranger unless I'm interested and already conversing with him and I just prefer that the buying of the drink isn't the buy in to talking to me.
However in a bar situation I'm not likely to take a drink off a stranger unless I'm interested and already conversing with him and I just prefer that the buying of the drink isn't the buy in to talking to me.
😄 Props to LibraSid for being the lead Gentleman of the thread.
Even Gays would buy drinks for other gays I'm sure...you're just the girl in the relationship PP 😛
That's weird to buy a random stranger something whatever your gender! But being polite is nice. I like your moms advise. My moms is: When a man takes you out NEVER pay for anything until you're married. I don't take her advise much. Or ever. She's a good woman but stuck in the past.
BUT ever since I was aware of dates (freshman in high school), I wondered about the first date always. Till this day actually. It's like... I don't want him paying for everything but guys always do on the first couple of dates it seems... how many dates till I can start paying— I always have this knot in my chest when my date's about to pay for something. It always bugs me. I always hold back on the things I want because I'm afraid he'll insist on paying for it.
BUT ever since I was aware of dates (freshman in high school), I wondered about the first date always. Till this day actually. It's like... I don't want him paying for everything but guys always do on the first couple of dates it seems... how many dates till I can start paying— I always have this knot in my chest when my date's about to pay for something. It always bugs me. I always hold back on the things I want because I'm afraid he'll insist on paying for it.
Sid..?... by any chance do you have a son about my age or a brother 😉
Posted by PandorasBox
They say the way a man treats his mom is the way he'll treat you. could that b true?
I fit this stereotype. I love my momma!
Posted by PandorasBox
CHILVARY IS NOT DEAD!! Some guys just need to learn to SHOW they appreciate women. They need to spend more time respectin their mothers, helpin them out, openin doors n what not n theyll learn how to treat a SO. They say the way a man treats his mom is the way he'll treat you. could that b true?
why should these guys learn to show they appreciate women when women dont appreciate chivalry to begin with?
and no, the way a man treats his mom isnt the way he'll treat you. that's retarded logic. do you think that men who have been physically/verbally abused by their mothers all beat their wives? i guess those people should all just love their mothers right? LOL
Posted by Metaphysical
why should these guys learn to show they appreciate women when women dont appreciate chivalry to begin with?
You're missing a key point. You can't do it because you want her to like it. That was the point at the beginning. Buying a girl a drink to gain her appreciation so she'll talk to you isn't chivalry. It's following an outdated notion of the right way to approach her.
That said, most women do appreciate it.
Posted by Metaphysical
and no, the way a man treats his mom isnt the way he'll treat you. that's retarded logic. do you think that men who have been physically/verbally abused by their mothers all beat their wives? i guess those people should all just love their mothers right? LOLclick to expand
As for the abusive mom stuff, I guess the woman doesn't have to worry how he treats his mom unless she starts abusing him too. It's not retarded logic, it's simply not one-dimensional. It still is just a stereotype and was acknowledged as one. But they do exist for a reason right?
a dude who buys a girl a drink is a sucker, not chivalry
most women appreciate it? in what mythical land? san antonio? guess i should move there because i dont believe it
most women appreciate it? in what mythical land? san antonio? guess i should move there because i dont believe it
Posted by QuietSt0rmPosted by MsPisces.
I don't understand why women are so against men behaving like men. There is nothing wrong with a man buying you a drink, paying for your meal if he takes you out, etc. Its not to mean you aren't independent, just that you're a lady and he is a man.
I would be completely turned off by a man who wanted me to pay for dinner on a date. And yes, if I am at a bar and a man and I begin talking, there is nothing wrong with him buying me a drink.
I agree.. I'm all about equality. I pay my own bills, and take care of myself. But Ms. P is right.. let a man be a man. Little do these 'independent' ass females know, a man LIKES to feel like he can woo a girl, court her, (I'm not talking about drinks, fwiw) But if a man invites me out on a date, damn right I'd expect him to buy my dinner. HE INVITED ME.
Now if the tables turn, and *I* ask my guy to a movie, I'm not above paying since it was my idea.
For a long time, when I was younger, I always insisted on going dutch. I thought this made me more 'appealing' in the 'independent women' era.. But men really are at their best when they're appreciated for providing for you, whether it's a meal or a gift. It boosts their ego a lil bit, just like how it would boost a woman's ego to know that she's needed when her man is sick with the flu and wants her to nurse him back to health.click to expand
Well maybe this is a country thing or a DXP thing I dont know, but practically ALL of the men I know said they LOVE it when a girl pays, or atleast offers (and there is no point offering if you're only doing it because you know the guy wont let you! lol). The guy im (sort of) with at the moment actually said it was the fact I offered to pay that made him decide to make it official, since he had just came out of the relationship with a gold digga, it made him feel comfortable to know that I can hold my own. I am not some bra burning feminist lol but I just really dont understand why men should be more curteous to women then they are to them. And theres no way in hell I will be nursing my sick man back to health! I will buy him some tablets and be on my way! just like I would expect him to do for me 🙂
Posted by Metaphysical
a dude who buys a girl a drink is a sucker, not chivalry
You didn't see what I've said here. I agree with this.
Equality isnt about a woman trying to be a man. A man is a man, a Woman is a woman. Equality is about both being treated with the same amount of respect for eachother. A man should not pay simply just because he is a man ,he should pay because he wants to treat the woman. A woman should not expect the man to pay, but take it as a nice treat if he does. Whoever gets to the door first hold it open for the other person, the woman shouldnt be waiting for the man to open it for her.
I dont see any women trying to pee standing up. It isnt about wanting to be a man. A woman who works isnt being a man, a woman who wears trousers isnt being a man.
The cleaner who demands the same respect to be givien to him as the MD of the company isnt trying to be the MD he is just wanting to be treated equally. That doesnt mean that he thinks he can do the same job as the MD they both do their different jobs and have different things to offer the company yet they should still both be respected by eachother. Same as a relationship.
I dont see any women trying to pee standing up. It isnt about wanting to be a man. A woman who works isnt being a man, a woman who wears trousers isnt being a man.
The cleaner who demands the same respect to be givien to him as the MD of the company isnt trying to be the MD he is just wanting to be treated equally. That doesnt mean that he thinks he can do the same job as the MD they both do their different jobs and have different things to offer the company yet they should still both be respected by eachother. Same as a relationship.
I dont think anyone in the thread has said they dont appreciate a gentleman. Equality does not equate for lack of common curteousy.
this topic just reminded me of something.
the other day, i was getting out of work, and before i left i wanted to check the oil in my car. my dad used to be a mechanic and he always tells me it's best to check oil when the vehicle has been sitting for a while. anyway, one of my male co-workers was having a smoke by the parking lot so he saw me open the hood. he yelled, "what's wrong?"
i said, "nothing's wrong, i'm just checking my oil before i leave."
he said, "you know how to check the oil? wow, i'm impressed."
i gave him "a look" and said, "of course i know how. anyone who owns a car should know how to check the oil."
he said, "well i agree with you, but most women who have boyfriends or husbands say 'oooo, i don't know how to do it, can you do it for me?'"
i laughed at the truth of that statement.
i see the paradox in wanting equality, but turning around and expecting/demanding that someone else do things for you that you are more than capable of doing yourself.
however, in my relationships, it just boils down to general respect.
i don't ever expect or demand that my boyfriend do anything for me that i can do for myself.
i definitely appreciate it when he offers though, and i let him do things for me when he wants to.
i absolutely loathe when a partner doesn't treat me as an equal.
so i guess basically....i appreciate chivalry, but when it really comes down to it i prefer equality, and i don't allow myself to become too dependent on someone else.
the other day, i was getting out of work, and before i left i wanted to check the oil in my car. my dad used to be a mechanic and he always tells me it's best to check oil when the vehicle has been sitting for a while. anyway, one of my male co-workers was having a smoke by the parking lot so he saw me open the hood. he yelled, "what's wrong?"
i said, "nothing's wrong, i'm just checking my oil before i leave."
he said, "you know how to check the oil? wow, i'm impressed."
i gave him "a look" and said, "of course i know how. anyone who owns a car should know how to check the oil."
he said, "well i agree with you, but most women who have boyfriends or husbands say 'oooo, i don't know how to do it, can you do it for me?'"
i laughed at the truth of that statement.
i see the paradox in wanting equality, but turning around and expecting/demanding that someone else do things for you that you are more than capable of doing yourself.
however, in my relationships, it just boils down to general respect.
i don't ever expect or demand that my boyfriend do anything for me that i can do for myself.
i definitely appreciate it when he offers though, and i let him do things for me when he wants to.
i absolutely loathe when a partner doesn't treat me as an equal.
so i guess basically....i appreciate chivalry, but when it really comes down to it i prefer equality, and i don't allow myself to become too dependent on someone else.
Yes obviously my children will be raised without fathers and I will never have a decent man because I bought a guy dinner and held the door for him *rolls eyes*
What about the chivalrous guy who is raising children alone? It kept talking about "a mother who gives birth and raises a child outside of marriage" and "Children raised by single mothers"... what about my little freaks? Are they going to be delinquents too?
but why—? no one has said why the men have to pay? I really dont get it. Is this the 11th commandment or something? lol If the guy HAS to do it or is expected to do it, then it isnt chivalry really is it. It's just the guy doing what he HAS to do to get the girl.
If the man HAS to pay, does the woman also HAVE to wash up and make dinner? It's strange how the old traditions that seem to benefit women are the ones that stick, while the others are the ones they moan about.
If the man HAS to pay, does the woman also HAVE to wash up and make dinner? It's strange how the old traditions that seem to benefit women are the ones that stick, while the others are the ones they moan about.
everything should be 50/50. relationships are 50/50. if women want to be "equal" then they can pay for their own meal.
i'll be damned if a female expects me to pay for everything just because i asked her somewhere. if you looked at me to pay i'd leave right then and there. i'll pay for dinner when we're married.
i'll be damned if a female expects me to pay for everything just because i asked her somewhere. if you looked at me to pay i'd leave right then and there. i'll pay for dinner when we're married.
There is loads of BS in that article posted, but I can't even bother.
Posted by Let*It*Be
""Maybe these boys will stand up and start acting like men when these women sit down and start acting like ladies"
THANK YOU! One of my favorite quotes too. Sums up the entire thread without anything having to do with having children, a career, dinner or knowing how to fix something - in which none come into play with chivalry.
How exactly does this sum up the thread? the thread was not calling men?? A woman acting like a woman and a man acting like a man doesnt intefere with equality.
never said guys dont buy me dinner, just said I would happily pay for my own 😛
Hey Everyone,
I'm so happy to see this valuable discussion brought up and some great points being made and the ladies here considering how I man feels about his role in a relationship. I especially want to compliment Libra Sun for thinking about how a man feels about the whole "guys pay" tradition. I want to say that she is pointing out a frustration that many of us guys feel about societies ideas about our role. Yes, a lot of guys feel there's a double standard idea of equality (lets have it when it benefits women and stay traditional when it benefits women). Something I want to point out is that no matter whether you choose to be traditional or not traditional, I think both men and women should be treated as if they are equally entitled to love and respect. This does not mean we're the same, but our responsibility is equal. I think just like a business deal, a relationship should be a win/win situation. People enter a relationship to feel loved. I don't mind buying dinner for my date to make her smile and feel loved, but if I get the idea she thinks it's "my job" to buy her dinner I start feeling taken advantage of and disrespected and not loved at all. I think double standards are the worst kind of disrespect. I've heard it mentioned on here that chivalry is a way for a man to show respect to a woman. I think something you don't hear in current US culture these day, is that men want to be respected as well and we both deserve respect. There's a difference between LETTING a man pay for the dinner and EXPECTING him to pay. If she expects us to pay then she doesn't have much respect for us. So yes, it's very nice when the lady pulls her wallet out ready to put in her share. Let us say it is our treat. And don't go describing your date and calling the man names afterword if he doesn't volunteer to pay for you. It's not his job. I don't think it's so much the women that want to show their independent that kills chivalry. I think it's the messages we get on TV in the US and UK that teach society that men are dumb and worthless and inferior or worse yet, violent wolves. Men don't feel like being chivalrous when society degrades them like that. I think a lot of men are like me. We want to be chivalrous when we feel loved and not when we feel looked down on.
I'm so happy to see this valuable discussion brought up and some great points being made and the ladies here considering how I man feels about his role in a relationship. I especially want to compliment Libra Sun for thinking about how a man feels about the whole "guys pay" tradition. I want to say that she is pointing out a frustration that many of us guys feel about societies ideas about our role. Yes, a lot of guys feel there's a double standard idea of equality (lets have it when it benefits women and stay traditional when it benefits women). Something I want to point out is that no matter whether you choose to be traditional or not traditional, I think both men and women should be treated as if they are equally entitled to love and respect. This does not mean we're the same, but our responsibility is equal. I think just like a business deal, a relationship should be a win/win situation. People enter a relationship to feel loved. I don't mind buying dinner for my date to make her smile and feel loved, but if I get the idea she thinks it's "my job" to buy her dinner I start feeling taken advantage of and disrespected and not loved at all. I think double standards are the worst kind of disrespect. I've heard it mentioned on here that chivalry is a way for a man to show respect to a woman. I think something you don't hear in current US culture these day, is that men want to be respected as well and we both deserve respect. There's a difference between LETTING a man pay for the dinner and EXPECTING him to pay. If she expects us to pay then she doesn't have much respect for us. So yes, it's very nice when the lady pulls her wallet out ready to put in her share. Let us say it is our treat. And don't go describing your date and calling the man names afterword if he doesn't volunteer to pay for you. It's not his job. I don't think it's so much the women that want to show their independent that kills chivalry. I think it's the messages we get on TV in the US and UK that teach society that men are dumb and worthless and inferior or worse yet, violent wolves. Men don't feel like being chivalrous when society degrades them like that. I think a lot of men are like me. We want to be chivalrous when we feel loved and not when we feel looked down on.
I prefer equality, but by virtue I can become hemmed up. I try to walk a thin line between the two, lest I become a "cheap bastard" or whatever other insults are out there. Women have pushed so hard for equality, yet they constantly contradict this right with the princess behavior. Such hypocrites. From my experience in the service, there was a reason why most GIs hop on the chance to marry non-american women.
🙂
🙂
I think you feel safer if it's even.
You can never trust a man that holds money over your head. But sometimes it's really nice if they pay.
You can never trust a man that holds money over your head. But sometimes it's really nice if they pay.
Chivalry definitely is not dead. My sag is very chivalrous, openning a door for me, walking me to my car, rubbing my feet, carrying me lol. He also treats me equally, most likely due to his venus in libra. There are guys like that out there but they are few are far between. Most women aren't willing to wait for them. I think I deserve to be pampered tho, and in return I will pamper my man as well. 🙂
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I was talking to a guy friend about this recently. He was a buying a drink from some random girl at a bar and afterwards I asked him why, and he said "because its the right thing to do" I was very confused. The woman can afford to be out in the bar so she can afford to buy her own drinks! I assume she had a job which paid for her fancy hair extensions, manicured nails and designer shoes, so why should he have to buy her a drink?
Back in the olden days when women stayed at home and didnt work and were unable to make their own money then I understand why the man was supposed to take the girl out and pay for her meals and drinks, since he was going to be the one finacially supporting her once they were married while she kept the home and looked after the children.
But in this age where woman are working just as much as men and in some cases earn more than their partner why should the guy be paying for everything?
I choose equality everytime (partly because chivalry is just about dead lol), I would support my partner if he was going through hard times and out of work and I would expect him to do the same for me. I pay for my fare share of meals, and nights out. Yes it would be nice to be a lady of leisure, but I enjoy having my own money. My mum always bought me up with the teachings that you should "never let yourself be financially dependent on a man as if you ever need to get out of the relationship you are screwed" and I stick to that advice. So just wondering what you guys thoughts are?