Viguy hard to Read..so confused, help!

Hello everybody, this is my first post. I am hoping you can help me with this very special virguy I have been seeing since June. We met on Memorial Day weekend and it was an instant attraction. He sent me a text a couple of weeks later for a date and from the start, we hit it off. We texted several times a day and saw each other at least 3 times a week then we started to spend almost every weekend together. He made sure we had plans for the week. Around the second month of dating he asked me to join him for a business trip in late September and also New Years away with other couples which I booked a few weeks later in a leap of faith. We spent many quiet and fun times together, sometimes talking all night, sometimes quietly sitting next to eachother watching the sunset. We didnt really talk much about us because I wanted things to grow organically if it was to happen. Everything was fine until about one month ago. He wanted to have the "talk". He said because he has such respect for me and because he was never in this kind of relationship before, he wanted to take it a bit slower and reevaluate where things are going between us. I think what he wanted to say was that he had really strong feelings for me, and he was scared. So for a month he started texting less and it has come to the point where he contacted only once a week and then canceled a couple of times. I put my foot down and told him that I adored him and like spending time with him but if he didnt feel the same, not to make plans he couldnt keep nor excuses for not replying back in a timely fashion. I also reminded him he may want to take his personal belongings from my place since we dont see eachother regularly anymore and he may need it. He said not to make an excuse to come over, but he couldnt take it cause he was going back to work after our talk and it would look odd. I saw him about 3 times since the talk, talked some more but he's still reevaluating and #1 priority is work since his company may be bought out soon and he needs to put all his time into it til January. I just saw him 6 days ago and the chemistry is still over the top! He said we should do this more often and I joked that it's really up to him. I told him that I missed. i sent him a text yesterday to wish him a safe flight for the holidays but no reply. Is this his way to saying goodbye? Or is is he expecting somehow that January will be the magic month? And what do I do about the New Years trip planned?

If he is not calling you consistently, or making/keeping dates, he is no longer interested.

*gawking* at 69virgo's profile...What? It's a distraction LOL

I'm leaning towards Gp's statement that he's for whatever reason lost interest but hope is not lost if you can manage to stop focusing so much on him and shift the focus back onto yourself, go out on a nice lunch or coffee date with an old/new friend, just keep busy and no more mush like telling him you miss him and text have a safe trip text messages, just forget about him for a little while as he re-evaluates his position with you. Try not to add fuel to his distant flames by saying little I miss you type things, he already know you like him and want him, he know how you feel and now he's aware you are losing patience by insisting he remove his things from your home which tells him he has you hook line and sinker and he can just take his sweet ol' time.

If you really want him to have his things back, box it up or throw it in a bag and hand it to him....Let him know your around when he's ready and leave it alone...Not much else you can do outside of dragging your body across his feet and beg for resolution.

Patience but while your being patient go have some fun and focus on your own personal interest and hobbies...

Men either feel it for a woman or they don't...typically when they don't feel it the "I'm Scared" internal response is activated, once that's activated you might as well move on b/c he's digging his feet into the ground and if he has to think about it forget about it...usually a man will go ahead and try if his internal emotional alarm is not triggered but when they say let me evaluate oh don't even wait around for that shit....you will grow a few gray hairs

Hopefully he manages to get it together, least for your sake I hope he doesn't haven't you hanging for too long, your decision to wait it out or keep it moving with the door slightly open to reignite the flames.

Posted by tiki33
*gawking* at 69virgo's profile...What? It's a distraction LOL

I'm leaning towards Gp's statement that he's for whatever reason lost interest but hope is not lost if you can manage to stop focusing so much on him and shift the focus back onto yourself, go out on a nice lunch or coffee date with an old/new friend, just keep busy and no more mush like telling him you miss him and text have a safe trip text messages, just forget about him for a little while as he re-evaluates his position with you. Try not to add fuel to his distant flames by saying little I miss you type things, he already know you like him and want him, he know how you feel and now he's aware you are losing patience by insisting he remove his things from your home which tells him he has you hook line and sinker and he can just take his sweet ol' time.

If you really want him to have his things back, box it up or throw it in a bag and hand it to him....Let him know your around when he's ready and leave it alone...Not much else you can do outside of dragging your body across his feet and beg for resolution.

Patience but while your being patient go have some fun and focus on your own personal interest and hobbies...

Men either feel it for a woman or they don't...typically when they don't feel it the "I'm Scared" internal response is activated, once that's activated you might as well move on b/c he's digging his feet into the ground and if he has to think about it forget about it...usually a man will go ahead and try if his internal emotional alarm is not triggered but when they say let me evaluate oh don't even wait around for that shit....you will grow a few gray hairs

Hopefully he manages to get it together, least for your sake I hope he doesn't haven't you hanging for too long, your decision to wait it out or keep it moving with the door slightly open to reignite the flames.

Thanks for elaborating Tiki. 🙂

LOL errr um it's really hard to focus but I managed to get something out

Thanks 69V, I still have time to cancel although if it's not going to happen I should talk to him about it perhaps after Thanksgiving so I can make alternate plans with my gf's. The thing that gets me is the no reply to a simple text, like a TY. He never pulled that until now. The last 3 dates were short and sweet, but with same chemistry and lots of compliments from him. I do appreciate that he wasn't seeking anything more than my company and to catch up, it was very safe. As I'm writing this, I'm wondering if he asked to meet 5 days ago to get a clear sign from me for the green light. Well, I was looking for him to tell me that he missed me and was hoping he'd ask to make definite plans. Instead, he asked detailed questions on what I did basically since I saw him last. He was fishing to see if I was dating someone else, which I'm not. I wasn't distant but there was a certain formality to our body language while trying to ignore the fireworks going off all around us, occasional leg brushing against mine on his part. I'm wondering this because that day, he sent me 5 texts like he used to before, letting me know what time, where, how to find the place etc.. He did research by asking around where to take me and it was this quiet and lovely, private french wine bistro which he put much thought into. The one thing that happened on our date was there were some guys at the bar who kept looking over and my eyes went over to them out of distraction and he turned around to see what I was looking at. I was not flirting but I looked over more than once. At the end of the date we kissed and he said we should do this more often (duh...) and I said its up to him to ask and that I missed him and you know where to find me. I'm wondering if he was put off or hurt by my being distracted by the guys at the bar. Is a virguy sensitive to this extreme? Do they ignore texts and can't deal with anything emotional when they are in their cave reassessing, or did I crush his ego at the bar and he feels wounded and/or angry? Ah, how do you read a viguy who has so much emotion but cant express in words! Hearing those 3 words again would be a miracle! "I miss you"

GP and T33, thanks for your "Don't Mess With ME" input! Maybe what I need is a good kick in the pants! Just to give you a little more meat to my situation... When we met, the qualities he liked most about me was that I am independent, secure with myself and know what I want. I have traveled alot and experienced much. He is in his late 30's and younger than me. Wondering if the very qualities he likes about me makes him feel insecure and inferior somehow. I say this because when I was talking about my years living abroad to some friends, he muttered to my friend sitting next to him "she thinks she's special". Is he threatened, feels undermined, that he thinks I dont "need" him compared to the girls that are needy, which he said he nor any man wants. Also, his previous relationship which was his first serious one ended up bad. He said she had anger issues which came out of left field and he blamed himself for his bad choice and now more than ever, he probably questions his judgment on love and has relationship fears. From reading up on Virgos though, they want to feel needed. His ex certainly made him feel needed or else... They hold back their true emotion and question if it's the real thing. OR MAYBE HE'S JUST NOT THAT INTO ME ANYMORE!!

As a thought.. Can a Virgo grow as a person if he's always calculating, measuring risk, being fearful of hurt? Everybody wants to love and feel safe but it's the lessons we learn from mistakes and risks taken in love that delivers us as a unique whole to safety and love with the right person for each of us. Jeez, with all his emotional restraints and constant over analyzing chatter going on inside his head, you'd think I'd be the one to lose interest and ignore texts and run far away.

I was going to box his stuff up and drop it with his doorman after our second talk (he brought up the talk all three times to let me know where his head is at (which is a messy state of confusion) but I thought that was an immature passive/aggressive behavior. If he wants his stuff, he needs to make the effort to get it. I can leave it with my doorman, ha! Anyway, I'm here because his actions are confusing and I like him still. However, if I do not hear from him by Thanksgiving, it will be over and I will email him instructions for his stuff and cancel my trip. 69V, you think I'm being fair?

Sunfish...it's Virgo treat and also Venus retrograde for 6 weeks already ...
Venus turned direct on November 18, but it's shadow will last till December 20 ...so things start falling back into place, step by step, but u have to be patient if u really want this guy...

u can get some more explanations here:

http://www.aquariuspapers.com/astrology/2010/10/venus-retrograde-in-scorpio-and-libra-in-october-november-2010-pt-1-connections-to-be-made-so-communicate-deepen-and-pur.html<BR>
I was married with a Virgo for 15 years and in the begining I experimented this behavior ...several times. Don't ask about New Year plans now, give it a few more days, since yesterday Full Moon is also fishy.
Good luck!

Thanks for the interesting read Former. Virguy pulled back early October so the Venus retrograde kind of fits the pattern. I did get a text this morning from him saying he'll call from his destination which I believe he will. I guess I won't be leaving his stuff at the door and cancel the trip until we have a chat. You say you experienced this type of behavior from your Virgo of 15 years. What pushed him over the edge to commit and was it worth it? I wonder if virguys seem appealing due to the challenge to find that they may actually not be worth the headache. But I shouldn't generalize, everybody is unique although in many ways, astrology signs say a lot about the person.

I don't believe he's lost interest at all. Something very similar happened between my boyfriend and I, and I've noticed, from reading accounts of others on this board, that it happens quite frequently with Virguys.

This is his reevaluation phase. When Virguys start falling for a girl too hard and too sudden, they realize their heart has been doing most of the thinking. As intrinsically logical creatures, this scares them, so they withdraw until they feel their head can take control of their actions again.

Allow him some space to deliberate over his emotions. Virguys can't just FEEL something, they need time to THINK about how they feel. However, don't sit on the sidelines just waiting around, either. Once you've granted him time to think, make sure that he knows what you want, and that if you aren't getting it, you'll have to move on. But again, ever the systematic type, present what you want in a logical fashion--not an irrationally, overly sentimental, emotional one.

Good luck!

Thanks LL :-) I can understand virguy's logical side taking over. No I am not waiting around, am pretty busy but I am able to balance and juggle my life as most mature women are capable of doing. I guess the future trip is a logical reason to discuss what the HECK is going on in his analytical brain. I'm lucky that I have a definite time frame to work with. As a note to myself, I should think like a guy rather than letting emotions have priority, if that's possible!

Posted by LibraLove
I don't believe he's lost interest at all. Something very similar happened between my boyfriend and I, and I've noticed, from reading accounts of others on this board, that it happens quite frequently with Virguys.

This is his reevaluation phase. When Virguys start falling for a girl too hard and too sudden, they realize their heart has been doing most of the thinking. As intrinsically logical creatures, this scares them, so they withdraw until they feel their head can take control of their actions again.

Allow him some space to deliberate over his emotions. Virguys can't just FEEL something, they need time to THINK about how they feel. However, don't sit on the sidelines just waiting around, either. Once you've granted him time to think, make sure that he knows what you want, and that if you aren't getting it, you'll have to move on. But again, ever the systematic type, present what you want in a logical fashion--not an irrationally, overly sentimental, emotional one.

Good luck!

*sighs*

I hope this is the case for my Virguy!

Hi One, I'm sorry you're going through it too. I guess we have a soft spot for our virguys because even though it's the same outcome as guys who play games, they're at least sincerely confused. It's a redeeming factor.

run for you life...

j/k

be patient, things will sort itself out, if you let the process be natural and not forced.

Haha tiki, I may choose to do so if he comes back after all this expended and unnecessary energy to find an insecure, routine driven, worry wart who becomes boring in the bedroom department!

Dear Sunfish,
He was not willing to commit....they r not that type...if u want him u have to decide...we've been back and forth several times and everytime I went after him, otherwise he wouldn't have initiate anything. In the end ...bcoz i was sick of his game, I called him and asked him to think seriously if he is in or out...I gave him a week. After a week he moved in my apartment and we had 12 years of peacefull marriage till he felt in love with some woman on the internet...the last 3 years of my marriage I was waiting him to decide, but he couldn't...so here I am, divorcing this year...as I told u, they can not take decisions. I told him that I started it and I have to put an end of it, coz it's eating me...I was shocked to see him crying like a child ...he said he doewsn't want to lose me, but he did nothing for 3 yers...he kept coming home from that woman, saying "I'm here! what do u want!".
So, be carefull my dear, if u really want him, u will discover that there is no poetry, nor passion in it...he is blunt, simple, more catholic than the Pope and very chritical, inclined to find fault or to judge with severity, often too readily ...u will had enough in one year.
I can tell u more about it if u need...just leave a PM.
Good luck dear!

Dear Former, I'm so very sorry to hear of your situation. My virguy is also critical and very much of a cynic. He hasn't criticized me yet, but I can imagine that if he felt in a bad mood and felt comfortable enough, he may start criticizing me too. That is something I would have difficulty dealing with. I like giving complements and pretty much look at the bright side of every situation, even it may be bad. It makes me feel better. Feeling better by putting others down can't feel too good in my opinion. But my guy is very passionate to make up for it and makes me feel very safe, not much PDA though. I sent you a PM.

@25th: I love to hear what you have to say. It is always great to hear a man's perspective. Since its true that men and women do NOT think the same.

@Former: My father is a Virgo. He was married to my mother for 21 years. Then they divorced. He was always critical of her and I never saw him show her affection. Fast forward 22 years to his 2nd wife. They always hold hands, he speaks of her like she is a queen (and she is not even pretty).I remember how shocked I was to see how he loved this woman. I think in true LOVE, a Virgo man is very different.(Not saying this was in your case, just my own story).

Posted by sunfish
Dear Former, I'm so very sorry to hear of your situation. My virguy is also critical and very much of a cynic. He hasn't criticized me yet, but I can imagine that if he felt in a bad mood and felt comfortable enough, he may start criticizing me too. That is something I would have difficulty dealing with. I like giving complements and pretty much look at the bright side of every situation, even it may be bad. It makes me feel better. Feeling better by putting others down can't feel too good in my opinion. But my guy is very passionate to make up for it and makes me feel very safe, not much PDA though. I sent you a PM.

@Sunfish: The Virgo guy I am currently dating was very shy in the beginning. (We've only been dating for a little over 2 months). He was kinda stiff if I held his arm or his hand while walking. I always kiss him when I see him and he once commented " You act like I haven't seen you in months or something." And I just laughed it off because I know he liked it even if he wasn't used to it. He now takes my hand when we walk or expects me to hold his arm. So we don't "make out" all over the place or anything..lol but just the sweet hand holding tells me everything.

I still haven't heard from my Virguy yet...

If I don't hear from him at all this week, I'm just going to assume its over

*shrugs*

Hi 25th, I guess after a month of him pulling away with him not texting back, not coming through with plans made, answering my call with an email a few days later with long assed lame excuses then being displaced from date nights to a short week night "date" the 3 times I did see him made me a bit aloof and protective of my heart. I did tell him i miss him, adore him, want to spend quality time with him but he said nothing (oh he did say "I know"). I showed and told him all that at appropriate moments without demanding anything. The disconnect and game playing was initiated by him and so it continues. My being distracted was not in a flirtatious manner, and even if it was, unless he's an egotistical knucklehead, he should know that he deserved it by his actions(or non-actions). Do virguys like to test their woman to see if she's still interested? If the woman in the slightest shows less interest after all his pulling back does a virguy transfer their insecurities on to their woman and blames her then rationalizes and justifies their pull back behavior? No he definitely didn't delete me but he's not forthright either. He just goes MIA because virguys feel entitled due to having so much more feelings to sort through than everybody else right? I hope my virguy knows that quality women don't stick around too long to deal with his MIA's, testing, and other nonsense. Thanks for your reply because you are giving me an inside scoop on how Virguys think and rationalizes. Keep enlightening me please.

I'm sorry but these guys seem like they are just playing games and I am BEYOND tired of the games...

its so disappointing sometimes 😢

My dear Sunfish! ...they don't test ...they only care about themselves...it seems that u don't fit his best interest...obviously he has an alternative and he will choose the one who matches his frame. I told u before that life with him will be boring, so it's better to move on. He should fight 4 u if he loves u.

Posted by TheLadySagittarius

Posted by sunfish
Dear Former, I'm so very sorry to hear of your situation. My virguy is also critical and very much of a cynic. He hasn't criticized me yet, but I can imagine that if he felt in a bad mood and felt comfortable enough, he may start criticizing me too. That is something I would have difficulty dealing with. I like giving complements and pretty much look at the bright side of every situation, even it may be bad. It makes me feel better. Feeling better by putting others down can't feel too good in my opinion. But my guy is very passionate to make up for it and makes me feel very safe, not much PDA though. I sent you a PM.

@Sunfish: The Virgo guy I am currently dating was very shy in the beginning. (We've only been dating for a little over 2 months). He was kinda stiff if I held his arm or his hand while walking. I always kiss him when I see him and he once commented " You act like I haven't seen you in months or something." And I just laughed it off because I know he liked it even if he wasn't used to it. He now takes my hand when we walk or expects me to hold his arm. So we don't "make out" all over the place or anything..lol but just the sweet hand holding tells me everything.

click to expand

TheLady, Yes mine was like that too shy, but then he became more affectionate in public, especially in front of his guy friends. I remember on two occasions, his good friend was getting a bit touchy with me and he got pissed and told him "don't ever go there". That is possessive behavior which has no place in a healthy relationship, but at the time I was flattered. I will give him the space and time he needs because I am busy too and as the days go by. My calendar is overflowing with friends I have put in the back burner while we were dating. For some reason, when we spent so much time together, he didn't want to include anybody else, which may be also be a red flag for future, not good...

Posted by Kali
When the astrologers say you have to be patient with a virgo, they aren't just saying it, they mean it. One of the greatest compliments my virgo ever gave me during our "friendship" was to tell me, "You are always so patient with me." It meant a great deal to me to hear him say that, because I know how important that patience is to him, how much it meant to him to have someone have that patience with him, how much he needed that patience. So to me, the fact that he noticed how patient I was with him, that was the greatest thing to me. So if you are an impatient person, perhaps virgo isn't the way for you to go, because that patience is the one thing you will need the most.

Yes Kali, you are so right...I told my Virgo guy right from the beginning that sometimes I say things without thinking. I told him that I would never mean to deliberately hurt him and to please tell me if I have said something to offend him. Not to hold it in and let it fester. A couple of times when I was speaking to him on the phone and I could sense he was distracted or cranky (nothing to do with me), I remember to be patient and not take it personally. He always calls me the next day and I know he is grateful I didn't make a big deal and that I understood. He is also very patient with me. I love that about him!

Posted by 25thDecan
I'm giving you an inside scoop on how MEN think and rationalize. You keep up with the generalizations and you'll meet a player who figures out your requirements for a prince charming in five minutes, masks those characteristics over true qualities and hurts you seriously.
If he's such a cad and you did honestly reciprocate...you should've been "on to the next one" after date TWO. For example, I don't play dissappearing games and I'm a virgo. I am one way, consistant. .....angrily, so I admit...but consistant. Entitled? Entitled to what? I don't feel entitled to anything but mutual respect with any woman. I am NOT to be made a fool of or played with. And I give the same up front. If it is not reciprocated, I delete quickly. And if some chick wants to raise her protest,,, she gets completely disrespected for DARING to have a double standard with me. Sorry...but I'm assertive, aggressive and proactive with sexual/romantic interests. I don't "test" women. I take it easy on dates and enjoy myself while paying attention to who she is and then I act accordingly. My maternal uncle was the same way before he was married. He didn't "test" the woman who became his wife of 38yrs...yeah people 38yrs...no divorce, no infidelity. We're not all the same.

Thanks 25th. I know men are different but I have never encountered a guy like this before to such a point of confusion. I should stop feeling confused. Seems that virgo men are upfront if they want the relationship which he was in the beginning but I get it now that he isn't. It's simple, he's got other things that interest him more that he's spending time on. We women really do have to take things at face value. Doesn't matter that Virgos are shy and they have to concentrate on work first, blah blah... and we should wait, not pressure, be patient. Whatever.. I'm sure he'll come find me if he wants.

Calm down 25th, don't be so defensive. I appreciate your input.

Posted by formersalomeea
My dear Sunfish! ...they don't test ...they only care about themselves...it seems that u don't fit his best interest...obviously he has an alternative and he will choose the one who matches his frame. I told u before that life with him will be boring, so it's better to move on. He should fight 4 u if he loves u.

Former, I appreciate your insight due to your hurtful experience. No matter the real reasons for his pulling away, the fact is he's not around for me when I need him and want him to be. I don't really care that he may have an alternative because that has nothing to do with me. People should choose freely. At face value, he's made himself unavailable to me. He'll come find me like before if he wants. Meanwhile I will stop thinking of his feelings while he's gone off exploring.

Posted by Kali
sunfish - How is telling his friends to "not go there" with the girl that he is seeing, inappropriate? I'm sorry, but I'm just not seeing how showing that "possessiveness" in the scenario you mentioned is a bad thing in a healthy relationship. If your female friends were to get all touchy-feely with your guy, in front of you, and if he allowed it, wouldn't you have something to say about it? Or would you just allow it, thinking that having your female friends touching your guy in front of you, and your guy allowing, is more healthy?

Also him not wanting to include anyone else when you are dating, isn't a bad thing either. He's wanting to spend time with you, create memories with you. The shared times with friends would come in later in the relationship, after the two of you have developed a strong relationship together. Actually, him not wanting to include anyone else, could be a direct result of his friends getting all touchy with you and you allowing it.

Even as friends, my virgo wanted to spend time alone with me. He didn't want to have to include a lot of people, but instead wanted to focus only on me. They are very detail oriented and I would look at it from that angle. If there are a lot of friends in the mix, then details may be missed. Virgos also tend to be more "loner" types and don't go all out for the big gathering scenes. So when my virgo would want alone time with me, I felt flattered because I realized that he wanted to be able to focus all of his attention on me and not have it be divided between 10 other friends. That in no way was a red flag to me. And we were merely friends at that point. I can even remember on a few occassions when we were out with others, he would kind of withdraw a little bit, get very quiet and when we would have a private moment, he would say, "I was just thinking about how it would be if it was just the two of us here." They really don't do well in crowds. But that wasn't a red flag in the least. It's a red flag only if he begins to forbid you to see other friends, or tells you where and when you can go somewhere. But wanting to spend time alone with you to strengthen your relationship and let it become more fully established is not a red flag in my opinion.

Kali, you're right on all your points. We spent a great deal of time together getting very close and I loved every minute of it. I

I guess my post got cut off but here's the rest.

Kali, you're right on all your points. We spent a great deal of time together getting very close and I loved every minute of it. I should explain that I wasnt allowing his friend to be touchy, at the same time, I wasn't cussing his friend off either, they are good friends. I wasn't inviting it and my guy set boundaries for his friend, which I was flattered by. But... it the delivery of his stern warning that didn't match the silly nature. I can sit here and dissect and analyse HIM but if I really think in much simpler terms... HE'S MADE HIMSELF UNAVAILABLE TO ME for whatever reason. At this point, I think it's wise to take his actions at face value and forget what it was in the past. I feel I don't even need to tell him this. He'll come find me if he so chooses. Your guy sounds very romantic :-)

Posted by 25thDecan
So now all virgos only care about themselves? Men that is, right? When I cared about my exes and THEY USED THATVTRAIT TO SHIT ON ME.....man please, many of you women are delusional and don't listen. WOMEN ARE JUST AS SLEFISH. JUST AS IMPATIENT AND HASTY. JUST AS NONRECIRPOCAL.
And Kali is right. I'm a guy. I don't want the BULK of what we share to be a social soiree...I want YOU. If you want a scene over substance, there's the door...wait, let me hit first cuz the nice guy stuff is played too.

You are right that women can be just as selfish and nonreciprocal, maybe even more so if they are supplied material comforts and come to expect it from their man. Despite this, they become this way when they don't feel the LOVE and RESPECT for their man anymore. Which btw applies to both sexes, never mind just Virgos men. Nobody wants a party scene over spending quality time alone with their mate, unless you're a juvenile teen. But, it's in those social settings especially when you're first getting to know eachother that you actually get to experience your potential partner with a bird's eye view. It's necesssary once in a while and healthy too.

Posted by 25thDecan
Its not necessary...being on a date in public is IN PUBLIC. See what I'm saying? If you don't want his undivided attention, why go out with him?

25th, do you consider yourself a typical Virgo male? I don't want to generalize but we are talking astrological sign behaviors on this board. I'm just trying to understand the workings of the mind of a Virgo male. TIA.

Posted by 25thDecan
So now all virgos only care about themselves? Men that is, right? When I cared about my exes and THEY USED THATVTRAIT TO SHIT ON ME.....man please, many of you women are delusional and don't listen. WOMEN ARE JUST AS SLEFISH. JUST AS IMPATIENT AND HASTY. JUST AS NONRECIRPOCAL.
And Kali is right. I'm a guy. I don't want the BULK of what we share to be a social soiree...I want YOU. If you want a scene over substance, there's the door...wait, let me hit first cuz the nice guy stuff is played too.

Not all women are this way. I posted something here about my Virgo guy and its not that Im impatient, its that I expect a relationship to not be one sided. If Im communicating with you. I expect you to do the same. Why should I or anyone for that matter, have to guess what the other is feeling or if theyre into you, especially once a person reaches a certain age? Im 41 and know EXACTLY what I want and need. I would expect someone around my age to not be into games and be able to speak their mind without me having to wonder and guess...thats some bullish.

All of us, regardless of our signs are selfish in some way.

Posted by MsLovelyLibra

Posted by 25thDecan
So now all virgos only care about themselves? Men that is, right? When I cared about my exes and THEY USED THATVTRAIT TO SHIT ON ME.....man please, many of you women are delusional and don't listen. WOMEN ARE JUST AS SLEFISH. JUST AS IMPATIENT AND HASTY. JUST AS NONRECIRPOCAL.
And Kali is right. I'm a guy. I don't want the BULK of what we share to be a social soiree...I want YOU. If you want a scene over substance, there's the door...wait, let me hit first cuz the nice guy stuff is played too.

Not all women are this way. I posted something here about my Virgo guy and its not that Im impatient, its that I expect a relationship to not be one sided. If Im communicating with you. I expect you to do the same. Why should I or anyone for that matter, have to guess what the other is feeling or if theyre into you, especially once a person reaches a certain age? Im 41 and know EXACTLY what I want and need. I would expect someone around my age to not be into games and be able to speak their mind without me having to wonder and guess...thats some bullish.

All of us, regardless of our signs are selfish in some way.

click to expand

MsLovely exactly!

Posted by 25thDecan
If the relationship is one sided...which for many of you women who post...IT ISN'T, you all just really have zero concept of getting to know someone vand taking your time...or simply leaving when it needs to be overx duh.....leave. why lump all virgos in one category and then validate yourself with- "typical virgo"..."I thought virgos were supposed to be"..."how do I deal with this puppy/virgo"...many of you women want a pet, not a relationship with a man. No matter how many times a "man" tries to advise you on this. For example..."I want him to open up to me"...tell him. But tell him WHAT THE HEYALL IT IS YOU WANT HIM TO OPEN UP ABOUT. You want a whiny lil bastard or a man who tells you CONSTANTLY WHAT HE'S FEELING? I think...neither. many of you want control of the outcome of having initiated a relationship with these men. From how he kisses to how he talks to you, to how he represses his needs in favor of when YOU want him to bend down on one knee and pitch woo to you EVERY FIVE MINUTES. You want to be seen in public with a guy who acts like the perfect sitcom boyfreind and who psychically KNOWS when you're ready to fuck, cry, be stroked and petted, fed and completely emotionally catered too. And you're driving yourself and these men crazy. And many of them are...like you...-CRAZY too.

I dont want a pet. I dont want a yes man. I dont want a man thats going to do everything that I tell him to do. I love a man who can stand up to me. I love a man who knows how to be a man but damn sure aint afraid to show the vulnerable side of himself without worrying whether or not he's going to look like a 'wimp'. What I do not like is having to guess how someone feels about me, simply because he is a man and men just dont behave that way. GTFOOH. If you like me. Say it. If you love me. Say it. If you want to spend time with me. Say it.

As I said, in my thread, I do NOT rely entirely on zodiac signs because some of what is said about me as a Libra, well is so NOT me. You damn straight I expect to be treated a certain way. I know what my needs and wants are, which is why I have learned since Ive been back to dating to take things slowly, but when the other person is holding back, it gets frustrating - PERIOD. Im a straight to the point type person. I aint bout the nonsense, plain and simple.

Posted by 25thDecan
Um....most guys don't like guessing either. Patience is a reallygood virtue quality that is NOT actually inherited. And that goes both ways. I had to erase my time table to understand that it had me seriously criticizing EVERYTHING about how a woman acts around me. When I did..I've had less dates but more fun on those dates and I've MET more women I share a lot of compatibility wiith...and I'm broke so showing out is at 2% right now.
If you don't mind me asking, what is your favorite past time? You seem very wordy/intelligent. I'm curious. You can pm me if you want

I must admit, a lot of my actions now have to do with watching my (late) husband battle brain cancer. A man who barely caught a cold. I take things a lot slowly now (this just came into play the last 5 months) and I dont take life so serious because I have seen up close and personal how quickly life can change within an instant. A lot of things that I thought were important, just werent/arent anymore. At the same time, if you enjoy spending time with me, then lets do it when time permits us to. Yeah, falling for someone is a scary thing. Telling someone you even like them is scary but I cant and wont live my life in fear that if I go out on a limb and do so, that its going to appear that Im too clingy or emotional. If I want to talk to you its because I enjoy talking to you, not because I just want to hear myself talk. You feel me?

And hell, I need my space and quiet time. When my scales are off balance, I will sit in my quiet places for hours and only come out when I need to.

And my past time is: reading and writing. I read A LOT. In a past life, I think I was a writer. Im currently reading: The Discourses by Epictetus.

Posted by 25thDecan
Nice...now...do you go to any wine tastings in town that have readings and poetic recitals? Or tobook signings and readings by authors on a regular basis?

I actually just found out about wine tasting in my area - Im in a hick town..lol. The poetic recitals come here from my understanding once in a blue moon, so its not 'together'. The last one I went to was back on Valentines Day in Atlanta. Im a regular at Barnes and Nobles and I do have 2 authors that I talk with because I prefer getting permission from the author if I use something from their book(s).

One of my favorite movies is: Love Jones, I watch it just to hear Darius (Larenz Tate character) recite that one poem....Who am I... Who am I? Well, they call me brother to the night. And right now I'm the blues in your left thigh, trying to become the funk in your right. Is that all right?

So... getting back to my original post, it's been about 2 months of his evaluating with weekly contact. When we originally made plans for New Years trip, it was with a leap of faith and assuming that we'd be together and getting closer until the trip. Since the set back of the 2 months, it would be weird to go ahead as if nothing happened. Also, we'd be surrounds by his "couple" friends and we're still in "possibility" stage. My Virguy is more in contact now, which leads me to think that he's coming back around but we did lose 2 months of togetherness to really enjoy ourselves and kick back.... Any thoughts on this?

Sunfish can I suggest you stop trying to figure out what's best for you through him and his actions. Do what feels the most appropriate for you, it's like your tap dancing and tip toeing around his decision to figure out what's best for him well while he's doing that try focusing on what's best for yourself. If your not comfortable with the situation matters what he's going through, what stage he's in, none of that really matters, what matters is "YOU" and how you feel the situation is effecting you and then you decide what's best for based on how you feel.

I personally wouldn't want to invest more of my time on a trip with a guy that isn't sure about me, but that's just me (I'm not trying to sway you, it's my point of view), or I would look at the trip in a new way and figure out what I would be getting out of the trip for myself if I chose to go and not have a real companion, are there great shops and sites I can go to alone, what would I feel comfortable doing alone by myself on the trip, are there any adventures I can explore by myself with myself if I have to do that. Why don't you get on the internet and find out what activities are going on around town, look for a place were single people hang out and have fun. FUN and YOU, that's what really is the most important part of this whole situation. How much fun can I have with or without him? Find a new reason to go on the trip and you will feel much more in control of your life/situation with this man.

Maybe your not going to be a couple on this trip since your both in this grey zone stage, treat him like a friend, don't make any real plans to be around him at all on the trip and he most likely will stick to you like glue b/c your not acting in a dependent needy couple type way, your taking control, going out on your own and showing a level of control over your life and that's very attractive to a man.

He left you 2 months in b/c he has limitations on how much he can share of himself before he shuts off, nothing you can do about his limitations but you can work with what you got and learn how to not read too much into it once you understand his limitations, you wouldn't expect a person in a wheelchair to get up and just walk so don't expect a man with emotional limits to suddenly become the guy of your dreams, he most likely will not ever be that for you but he may be someone you can temporarily have a great time with and you never know there may be single men on the trip as well...

Posted by 25thDecan
If the relationship is one sided...which for many of you women who post...IT ISN'T, you all just really have zero concept of getting to know someone vand taking your time...or simply leaving when it needs to be overx duh.....leave. why lump all virgos in one category and then validate yourself with- "typical virgo"..."I thought virgos were supposed to be"...You want to be seen in public with a guy who acts like the perfect sitcom boyfreind and who psychically KNOWS when you're ready to fuck, cry, be stroked and petted, fed and completely emotionally catered too. And you're driving yourself and these men crazy. And many of them are...like you...-CRAZY too.

Oh man this is good....very good, especially@you all just really have zero concept of getting to know someone vand taking your time...or simply leaving when it needs to be overx duh..... If I say leave to women and I'm a bitch and I'm public enemy #1.

DING DING DING BINGO!!!!@You want to be seen in public with a guy who acts like the perfect sitcom boyfreind and who psychically KNOWS when you're ready to fuck, cry, be stroked and petted, fed and completely emotionally catered too. And you're driving yourself and these men crazy. And many of them are...like you...-CRAZY too.

I have said this to women, they want a girlfriend, they want a man to express his feelings and not feel weak, I mean come on that is virtually impossible, I do see many women asking for the holy grail and not expect him to be homosexual, I mean I don't many straight men that can express his feelings, not feel vulnerable and weak and still be superman/the perfect boyfriend, I truly feel many women don't have a clue what they really are asking of a man. Men have limitations emotionally, it's not that they can't feel like any other human it's just that the way we women want them to express it is a surmountable difficult task. It's draining, let me be men and if his limitations are so limited that it's effecting the relationship then leave.

IMO if we women would slow down and get to know a man for who he is and not for whom we need and want him to be the relationship would most likely flourish on it's own but many of us already have this preset idea of what we believe a man should/should not be doing and when he's doing the opposite of what we feel men should do we feel upset/disappointed/taken for granted but a lot of that could be eliminated just by not bubbling men into this box, not every man is going to give back, he's not reciprocate, he's not going to feel like you feel, think like you think, he's not going to give b/c you think he should, it's important to know who he is before making assumptions.

Tiki,

"He left you 2 months in b/c he has limitations on how much he can share of himself before he shuts off, nothing you can do about his limitations but you can work with what you got and learn how to not read too much into it once you understand his limitations, you wouldn't expect a person in a wheelchair to get up and just walk so don't expect a man with emotional limits to suddenly become the guy of your dreams, he most likely will not ever be that for you but he may be someone you can temporarily have a great time with and you never know there may be single men on the trip as well..."

I like this alot. And you are right that a man with limitations cannot suddenly become the man of my dreams. If the trip presented other activities other than hanging with your mate, I would consider it, but it's all couples time on a private compound so I will not go... I would rather spend it with friends I would be laughing and having fun with. Before his evaluation, I wasn't really sure that he was my perfect match, but I was willing to find out. I guess we all have a different approach to evaluating whether the person is right for you. Some people have more fear than others in sharing their feelings and showing their vulnerabilities.

Another option is to possibly consider taking someone else if that's an option especially if you have spent money for the trip, take a good friend if you can or cancel if that's the only option you have .

Realistically if he wanted to go on that trip with you he would at the least bring it up, discussing the trip with you, clearly he's not doing that right now but whose to say he won't (be patient)but don't revolve yourself around it either but just be prepared to cancel if you have to, maybe things will change but in the mean time try not to revolve your thoughts around the trip, that was yesterday, yesterday is gone, pay attention to the NOW and try not to get caught up on future talk with men, making plans etc, hell a huge majority of men are just talking, living in the moment because he feels good at that moment but once the moment is gone reality sets in (his fears, his limitations all that kicks in) then he's running in the other direction, moving backwards.

Just because he's dragging his feet doesn't mean he's not interested, he has to be interested or he wouldn't have to "THINK" about you in that way at all, you are wifey quality so he had to step back and make sure your someone he's willing to get deep with, someone he wants to invest in, that takes some thought and time to figure out. Sometimes we women sabotage ourselves, we give in way too quickly and the red alarms start glaring, his stay single alarm kicks in and poof he's gone in the other direction....making plans can do that to a man, scare the shit out of him.

He's still around so that's a positive sign but try not tie yourself up emotionally with this man seeing that he has limits on his own emotions and limits on how much of himself he can give to you. Keep it casual until he gives the green light that he's willing to explore something more deeper with you.

No I'd actually rather not spend the welcoming of a new year with someone that I'm not so sure about. Even though this started with him on his terms, it gave me the chance to see him with eyes wide open and what he can offer me without rose colored spectacles, without physical chemistry getting in the way. I think he got scared by my potential of fitting into his life but my gut tells me that he would snuff out the free spirit in me which I got back after a very long time and I may suffocate again. Two people in a relationship should be considerate of the other, discuss anything and everything together, feel at peace that all has to been said and expressed to eachother. He is very traditional with the typical male/female role expectations... I was in that kind of relationship for a long time and does not suit me now in this stage of life. I want a deeper connection with no expected roles to fill. I want an equal who can also teach me. He called today from his family holiday gathering away to tell me he's picked up a little souvenir for me and that he wants to get together when he returns. I guess he's come to a conclusion but life has lots of moving parts and is static with many twists and turns. I'm almost afraid of what his expectations would be for me now that he's evaluated... I kind of just want easy, but I guess Virgos are not wired that way, and they certainly aren't easy. It's helped me so much to be on this board to be still and think about the many helpful replies.

Most relationships (not all but quite a few) can be perplexing because 2 people are attempting to see how the other will fit into his/her life. I can't say it enough, try not to think about things in terms of what you think a relationship should be between yourself and a man, this doesn't mean chunk out boundaries or allow neglect but you have to sort of step outside of your own boundaries, limitations that you place on yourself and try to understand someone else, to understand why he lives the way he lives, why he makes certain choices, how he feels about himself and about himself with another person in his life.

Allowing someone in is a very vulnerable scary space to be in because there is no controlling the other person to get a specific outcome, it's a risk. Don't box him in and don't allow anyone to box you in. None of it easy, none of it, easy comes afterwards but in the beginning it's all up in the air and most women hate that, it's exciting for men though because typically they thrive better around mystery and revel and grow in the unknown.

It's all about differences, it's still new, your still getting to know him and his limits and now you know he has some commitment issues, he committed himself to going to this trip and it seems he's no longer interested but he's still moving forward towards you so don't count him out.

If he doesn't go on the trip then he's shown he has commitment issues and thus can't be counted on to be open for long periods of time but if he follows through then you know he keeps his word and isn't a flake.

We all know what 2 people should and shouldn't be doing, we should be considerate of one another, we should attempt to understand one another blah blah etc etc but life isn't black and white, every person has his/her own set of should's and shouldn'ts and thus we can't say what we feel is right applies to every man we meet, you have to speak for yourself and hope that the people you allow into your life has some of the same values as yourself but be careful about what you feel a man should or shouldn't be doing, it's like assumptions, you can assume what he should be doing but that may not measure up to who he really is.

Take time to get to know him without all the should's, then figure out if he's a good fit into your life, men are slower in comparison to women, if he's moving slow, he's somewhat emotionally healthy but has a few apprehensions/limitations, men that are toxic typically move very fast. Give a chance, if you want easy get a 18 or 21 year old kid (less emotional baggage) if your with a grown man with baggage well things can be a bit complicated.

Most of us women really have to get away from the la la land what a man should be doing mentality and begin to give men a chance to show us who they are first thus we have an opportunity to see if we can work with it or leave it alone but if we already decide what he should be doing then it negates the purpose of having a connected strong relationship, he won't feel understood and we create a disconnect, the relationship won't get off the ground.

Give him a chance...If he's a flake...dump him

Tiki, you are a very wise woman. I will hear what he has to say... Oh he's going on the trip as he does every year. He's always brought a significant other on this trip and he's always been the bachelor in his group of friends. It's just that reflecting on our relationship I'm now at the point where I wonder if we are well suited for eachother. It remains to be seen but you're right, I should not box myself or anybody else to my preconceived notions on what relationships should be. I was happily walking along my path and was doing what was right for me, until he confused the hell out of me. I got lost there for a bit and I definitely put myself there. I'm back now and I'm glad. I will allow him the time to reveal himself to me without expectations nor judgment. He's a very good person and if anything, it would be great to have him as a friend. He certainly cares about the ones he loves and respects.

Well you know going on a trip with a woman is a big deal for a man especially to a bachelor that is accustomed to bringing women that are more like the good for now fun type girl.

He probably is confused too just like you, also a man has a keen sense of feeling a womans expectations out, given that you were so quick to say yes to the trip it forced him to figure out what he wants with you so he backed up, just you deciding to go may have set him off and he realized that possibly you want more than a trip, you want a relationship, he just may not be ready for that at the moment and doesn't want to lead you on and/or lead you into believing you both will be moving forward together after the trip and he's going to begin to behave like a real boyfriend.

Most men know women of a certain age want/need/desire to settle down, couple up, a trip like that to a 20 year old is just fun, a trip like that to a 25 year old is fun with the potential to see what happens, she's hopeful, a trip like that to a 30 plus year old that hardly dates, barely has sex means the world.

Tiki, it's good to remember back to certain deciding moments in a relationship. It took me two months to decide on going on this trip with him after him bringing it up numerous times since our second date. In the beginning, I was the one that was hesitant to follow his lead and move too fast and I then thought, what is the harm? I should take the leap of faith to show him that I am genuinly interested. Men like the chase, until they get what they are chasing. Then he got all schitzo and pulled back. In the last two months, I really don't know that he's not tested the waters with other women and I really don't have much to say about it. That is his choice really. One thing I do know is that he is thinking about me and our direction forward, but at this time, it's not only his choice to make. If we do resume, it will have to start at level one with better communication and if this doesn't happen, it will not work for me. Remember too that I am older and don't need for him to provide a white picket fence which may have thrown him off actually.

You have the right attitude sunfish and at the least you gave it a chance, some men only live for the chase, once a woman is caught he's got his thrill and everything goes downhill because many men don't either know what to do after winning the chase and/or they are just too emotionally lazy and self involved to care about anything outside of the chase.

When men come on hot hot hot and slow down significantly up to the point that he's no longer pursuing, just sort of hanging back, coming around at his own convenience, that's a sure sign he's not all that serious and he's lost a level of interest and things most likely won't heat up again.

Personally I don't consider men like him date/boyfriend material but they are fun and they can help to break up the mundane but you really can't be all that serious with a man like that w/o inevitably getting very disappointed/hurt....

Sucks when a woman thinks a guy is one way only to find he's actually someone else/another way, especially when he sells a woman the whole I'm ready package only to open the package and get a box of rocks lol.

I wouldn't even break a sweat worrying about a man like this, been there done that, matter of fact I would tell him I couldn't go and just leave it alone for awhile and shift my focus elsewhere, me understanding the dynamics of how these men tick well that's just how I would deal with it.

Yes Tiki, I was thinking last night that even if I did go on the trip, it's just too much time spent together especially after his self imposed hiatus which would freak him out worse as soon as we got back to real life. I ain't no yo-yo. Plus, I don't want to put myself in a situation where intimacy is expected, how weird is that! God forbid he thinks I thought it our pseudo-honeymoon!! Jackass, what a hell of an ego trip to his already inflated head! Better off he goes with his "couple" friends (maybe he even found a replacement) and wonders what it would have been like if I was there. I hope he goes dateless and be the perpetual bachelor he's known to be. You know.. I have every right to avoid him like he did me to tell him I'm not going for another few weeks. I don't see why I have to be concerned about making his trip enjoyable.

I being a typical woman, was looking to understand a Virgo male. There is nothing to understand... if a man is interested, he will find you and not give her the time in his absence to have another man try to invade his territory. When a guy is chasing, he puts his best foot forward to win you over even though he may not be looking for a committed relationship. They are wired to chase for the thrill. I should have seen the warning signs from the beginning when he came on so strong wanting to spend 24/7 with me. Something to be said about not letting your guard down too soon.

I never gave a guy this much head space. But as corny as this sounds, he got me from day one and I know he felt it too. But two months is long enough to read his silence and judge his non-actions. If he's not ready, it's not going to happen. He has been officially downgraded to "he can buy me drinks if I'm available" category and keep it light. Hmmm, what a difference in my thinking from my first pathetic post!