Is it really over— HELP!

Hi there! I am a Virgo woman in LOVE with a Libra male. I have been in a few long term relationships, however, I can honestly say I have never felt like this for anyone. We have been together just over 6 months and everything has been amazing. We get along incredibly well and have never been in an argument. We see each other often and spend alot of time together, from day one. As cliche as it sounds, our first date I felt he was the one.

Recently we went on our first trip, and everything started off amazing. Now you should know, that I am a social butterfly - and he knows this. It's not being flirtatious, it's just that I am friendly and enjoy talking to people. However, one night we went out and I was my usual "social butterfly friendly" self. We met a couple of guys who were from our state and spoke briefly to them. Well, he snapped. He felt as though these guys were hanging around and "looking me up and down" and I guess he was bothered by it. We ended up going home. I went to bed, and he stayed awake all night (pondering the situation I guess). the next day he was quiet and when I asked what was wrong he said "nothing". He didn't want to discuss the situation which really bothered me as I like to talk things through and settle them. Finally, he told me last nights events really bothered him (but he never admitted he was hurt). I sincerely apologized and tried to explain that my actions were innocent and I did not realize that he would be hurt. I promised him it would never happen again, and that I never want to hurt him, as that was never my intention. And I truly meant it. I asked him if we were ok, and he said we were fine.

We got back from vacation and he avoided me a couple of days. (not responding to texts and cold on the phone). I knew something was wrong. I asked him what was going on and he advised he didn't want to be in the relationship anymore because —it wasn't going to work out—. He thinks we will argue a lot. How is this possible when we got in our first quarrel six months into the relationship— He tried throwing in some lame excuse that my punctuality bothers him (which is B.S. because I have now learned to be on time.) and some other lame excuses.

Continued Below...

Continued....

I told him I was sorry for the scenario that happened on vacation, and I realize how I may have disrespected him and I would be more conscious and not let that happen again. I also told him it was not fair that he was not going to forgive me for the mistake I made and he was just willing to end it without giving it another chance. After tears, etc. we said we would meet up tomorrow to discuss, as this was done over the phone.

We met the next day, and after some small talk, got in to our problem. Let me just tell you??_I HAVE NEVER BEEN SO CONFUSED!!!! He would say in one sentence that it's me (and try to make up excuses that are not even accurate and don—t make sense)??_and in the same breath would say it's him and he's not ready for this (a relationship). However, he has never brought up the point that he was HURT by the actions that occurred that night and this is the reason he feels the way he does. He just kept telling me he is so confused and doesn't want to hurt me. He says he never wants to se me hurt and he needs to get help before he can be in a relationship. (On a history note: He has had a lot of things happen to him in the past that has emotionally scarred him. But, he keeps everything inside him and it eats him alive) He says he doesn't want to see other people and he still wants to talk. I don't know what that means though? Talk as in once in a while? As in everyday? I don't get it (and he sucks at clarifying). I want to be there for him and I DON??T want to lose him. We left it as he needs some time, but we will still talk. What the hec does that mean? I am more confused then ever! He cares about me so much, I know. And again, I know this is stemming from the actions that occurred on our trip.

What do I do? I am so hurt right now, but I don't know how to act? I don't want to play games either, but I also don't want to be to clingy as that might turn him off. How am I supposed to act? Will he get over this situation and can things go back to the perfect relationship we had? The thought of being apart makes me sick to my stomach. I already miss his smile! HELP!!!!

Your not compatible. Why would you want to be with a man that you can't be yourself with. Honestly it was most likely never perfect for him and thus he exploded over something that most likely was bothering him day one and finally couldn't take it anymore. It's best that you don't continue with a man that can't accept how social you are. It's odd that he's upset over your social ways, libra males tend to be pretty charming and social as well. Guess you got a libra that's not so social and not appreciative of that attribute in his partner. You would feel controlled if you had to alter your behavior for a man, it's best not to continue.

I know your hurt and I empathize but can you really say your okay not being yourself wth a man?

Hi Tiki! I totally get what you're saying. I would NEVER change my ways for anyone. I don't think it bothers him that I am "social". The part that bothers him was the fact that I was "social" at a bar with a random guy who was probably looking to pick up. I can get pretty neive and oblivious in those situations, and think the best in every situation. However, I can see how a sitaution like this can iritate anyone. Hec, if the tables we turned and he was talking to random ladies - my virgo self would be pretty darn pissed too! lol

So, no I would not change my social ways - but he DOES deserve more respect that what I showed that night. (Not that I was acting promiscuous or anything close to that - but you know what I mean)

Your in love, your blind so I understand exactly what your saying and I understand what you mean but realistically you did nothing wrong, you were being your social self.

It doesn't matter if the guy was picking you up, your not his, your not his wife. He is insecure and he doesn't trust you and most likely has trust issues with women, how he exploded means there is rage underneath and he can easily begin to take out his insecurities, anger and fears on you and begin to control the direction of the relationship by managing you so he can feel safe, he's attempting to avoid that with you by breaking up, it can easily turn toxic and abusive emotionally, physically.

Take his word that he needs out, he needs help, you cannot help him, you are a TRIGGER. You trigger his past traumas and no matter how much you want to twist yourself into a pretzel so his feelings won't get hurt it won't work, his feelings/past feelings and trauma will only see what it wants to see, if you smile at a man, if you say hello it will trigger his traumas and escalate...He did you a favor letting you go, he know how toxic he is and he needs to deal with that, give him space to do that.

YOu are right - I am in love and probably blind... but I just can't bring myself to see it like that right now. I guess it's too soon.

As for the abusive PART.. emotionally perhaps...physically, I can't see it getting to that.

The trust issue...he has never had a reason NOT to trust me. I am very open and honest. Perhaps that stems from his past.

I agree he needs to talk to someone to get over his inner demons. However, things have been so great for us. Can't it ever work? I am ready to give him his space, but not ready to let go.

Tiki, thanks for your advice, you are awesome! It's great to get others point of views!

Toxic indeed! Always love your posts, Tiki - so full of good information and advice (as is your FAB profile, WOW!!)

@crushed - I know you probably won't listen. You're in love, and will likely over analyze this indefinitely, to figure out WTF just happened. Nothing happened except you triggered something in him he'd been stuffing down and hiding for 6 months. YOU may have been your genuine self all along, but HE was not! You were not in love with HIM, you were in love with the man he presented himself to be - he was putting his best foot forward, trying to be something he was not, for months and months. Now it's crumbling down on him. He did you a favor, he is TOXIC. You seem like a very intelligent, well-rounded, and insightful woman. Hell, *I* wanna date you now! lol HE is not ready for a woman like YOU. Not that you're perfect - but I don't see a whole bunch of glaring faults like dishonesty, narrow-mindedness, and self-justification like so many have.

Thanks Nefer, I do enjoy reading your post, I dunno but you remind so much of myself, were definitely on the same page on lot of our insights.

I totally agree with you Nefer, he was hiding his real self until he could not hide it anymore and he lost his temper, this is not a one time thing crushed this could easily escalate into a bad abusive situation for you and he's attempting to get out before it gets that bad, eventually you will be walking on egg shells around him, constantly wondering if your going to offend him, unsure if what your doing and saying is going to trigger him in some way.

You cannot live your young life jumping through hoops for any man. There is an emotional attachment that is hard to let go but he's really doing you a favor, he's giving you an out by letting the relationship go not because you did something wrong but because he did something wrong, he lost his temper for no reason, he felt inferior because you are comfortable in your own skin, you easily attract love and happiness and you don't harbor the same anxieties as him, he was jealous not so much of the men but of YOU, your everything he's not...you saw yourself being friendly, he saw rejection and that means he has some huge emotional demons to tackle.

Let him go and get the help he needs, be his friend and respect his need not to be in a relationship that makes him feel uneasy and inadequate, he most likely needs friendship more than he needs a relationship that's going to trigger all these uncomfortable feelings that make him lash out at you. It's not about him having a reason to not trust you, he may have mistrust of women due to his past which carries over into his current relationships.

Lots of patience with this one crushed.

Nefer.... I get it. You could not have explained any better than you did. Here I am thinking this is all my fault, but in reality he has been trying to be someone he is not the entire time. And I see it now. So Tiki is right when she says..we're just not compatible. Thank you for your kind words. I have been feeling really sh*tty about everything and it's nice to hear.

It's just so sad because he is a great person. But we're just not for eachother, I guess. I do have a lot of love to give and I am hopeful that one day I will find someone who see's my good qualities and appreciates them - because I don't think Mr. libra does.

Wow! Who thought a message board could be so theraputic! lol I wish I had posted messagesto get some advice from the REAL losers I dated! lol

So...since you ladies give great advice...what do i do when he calls? :-)

He seems like a nice guy but as long as he's hiding his real self he will be toxic for any woman, playing Mr. Perfect is not realistic and it only makes him meaner and less connected to a woman as the relationship progresses

Many men do this Mr.Perfect honeymoon act, they do it because they have abandonment issues, trust issues, they become this perfect idea so the woman won't leave when the real him the bad him surfaces and then they begin to become harshly abusive mentally, emotionally and sometimes physically, the woman is attached by the 6 month mark, her hormones, her mind, everything pretty much attached and attracted to him so she stays, she twist herself up to please him and it's never enough.

This guy seems like he's aware of his ways and doesn't want to string you along like that or he could be playing the dump her game to see how desperate she is and how much she will twist herself to be in the relationship so he can begin to exert his control and manage the relationship...beware your out, you are safe, let it stay that way. Men and women with trauma issues are highly manipulative because they spend an exorbinant amount of time pretending to be perfect and using self protective measures to maintain control over other people, they are experts at twisting a person inside out to get there way.

If he wants to change and prove he's getting help that's fine but don't marytr yourself for him, don't convince him to stay, don't push him to be in a place he is unsure of...let him figure it out for himself.

Tiki...You just put me in tears because you are so right!

Ladies - you have no idea how much I thank you for this advice and helping me realize the truth!!! I am so thankful that I decided to post this and that I received such honest and great advice from both of you. It makes everything so much easier to get over this, than to sit hear and beat my self up over the breakup - thinking I did soomething wrong.

I want to be there for him as his friend. I think you are right and that's what he needs the most!

If he calls just be yourself, listen and be open as you always are, you weren't the one that had the problem in the first place so there really isn't any reason to be different.

Well, Tiki.. just the feeling I get... but I think you're a bit "older" like me.. and I think we both know who "Rori" is 😉

It's going to be hard. But I will def. try!

Yes we do Nefer *wink*

Crushed be it you stay or go just take care of yourself. I wouldn't judge you if you stayed with this guy, many women go back because they can't believe this really nice guy would harm her emotionally, mentally nor physically, it's really hard to walk away from a man that behaved so perfectly in the beginning, many women get stuck on men that have this jekyll and hyde type persona, he's perfect for 6 months to a year or longer then he unleashes his evil side. This dream man persona is the hook that keep women fighting to stay in the relationship.

Maybe this guy isn't that guy but I just caution you to observe closely how he reacts to you being you even as a friend, if you see him switch quickly from nice guy to mean guy you need to protect yourself, don't accept responsibility for any of his temper tantrums and stand up for yourself and get out of his way. Just know no matter how hard you try not to be you he will FIND something to say look it's your fault I'm mad, it's your fault I'm mean to you and it won't stop.

If you decide to go back to him make a promise and commitment to yourself to get out if things get too heavy and hard. Maybe you 2 can work together I dunno but you have a ton of work on your hands, men and women with trauma issues are hard to love, hard to be in relationships with because nothing is happening in REAL time in there minds, everything is triggered but it's triggering the past not the present. So if he feels rejected or disrespected it has nothing to do with what your doing now, it has more to do with something traumatic that happened in the past that he associates with your behavior, reality is your a friendly social person but his reality is your trying to make him jealous, you can't be trusted and your rejecting him, I mean total misperceptions on his part most likely all the time and unfortunately nothing you say will make that kind of behavior stop and go away, he'll pretend it's okay until he's triggered again.

Lots of work, I would encourage you to find an emotionally healthier mate, I mean who knows how deep his issues are and who wants to be controlled by another persons stuff.

Wow! You are really putting in to perspective for me.

The part where you write:

—?_men and women with trauma issues are hard to love, hard to be in relationships with because nothing is happening in REAL time in there minds, everything is triggered but it's triggering the past not the present. So if he feels rejected or disrespected it has nothing to do with what your doing now, it has more to do with something traumatic that happened in the past that he associates with your behavior, reality is your a friendly social person but his reality is your trying to make him jealous, you can't be trusted and your rejecting him, I mean total misperceptions on his part most likely all the time and unfortunately nothing you say will make that kind of behavior stop and go away, he'll pretend it's okay until he's triggered again.??

That really explains him well. However, if he went to therapy let's say, is this something he could overcome?

Now, here is my downfall??_ I am a sucker for helping people in need; it's just my nature. I feel sorry for people and feel the need to —save them??.

Tiki??_Your advice is so incredible and you obviously know your stuff well!!! I am just curious to know — how are you so well educated about this stuf? Is your background in psychology?

Don't feel sorry for him, he doesn't want that kind of help, he doesn't want pity, that will just make him feel like a pitiful person. Helping him is to not help him, this is just a personal journey that only he can walk alone.

The kind of support he needs is not something your going to be humanly capable of giving without him building resentment towards you, your not his mother and he most likely has issues with his mom so you helping him as a mother figure could possibly trigger deep resentment and anger and he could begin to lash out, basically he will wear you out mentally emotionally in every way, he won't mean to but that's just the nature of being around people who are stuck with past unhealed traumas. The best thing you can do is let him do what he needs to do for himself with little interference and advice on your part. If he seeks therapy that will be the best help he can receive, your interference/help will only bring confusion because you are a trigger, women trigger his issues so any help you give will only cause more pain, grief and confusion.

Just be his friend, treat him like you treat all your other friends, IMO that's the best remedy for people that are dealing with personal issues like his.

I have dated a few toxic men, learned from experience.

This is painful (and somehow cathartic) for me to write.

I was with a wonderful, intense, loving Leo man for five years. The first 6 months were idyllic, perfect. It was a dream come true!

Then he went into a rage one morning, having found a cigarette butt in the ashtray he claimed was not HIS, that it was his brand, but he'd emptied the ashtray the night before and never put another one out. WHO IN THE HELL AM I FUCKING BEHIND HIS BACK?! WITH THE KIDS IN THE HOUSE?! WITH HIM THERE IN THE BED TOO?! FUCKING WHORE!!!!

The Mr. Perfect mask he had been wearing to hide the truly TOXIC man underneath had slipped. I didn't know what a Toxic Man was, I didn't know what was happening. I begged, cried, pleaded for him to please stop screaming, please stop calling me names, I didn't DO anything! That WAS his cigarette butt! It took hours to calm him down - and he was SO sweet and remorseful and sorry he'd done that... he'd just been hurt so many times before, cheated so many times before... then, "Just stop lying, that's all I ask. Just admit that's your boyfriend's butt, say you're sorry, and promise me you'll never cheat again. We'll put this behind us." That rollercoaster ride lasted all day long, but I would not budge. I do not cheat, and I will not say I cheated to end a fight. (Deep down, I think I knew what he was doing - if I admitted to it, it was something to use later, proof that I'm worthless, because I cheat.) Finally unable to get me to say it, he turned on the charm. Begged for forgiveness, swore it was him, not me... he loves me so much, can't bear to lose me. It was a cycle. And it escalated. Time between jealous rages shortened, his charm was 1000 Watts though. And I was clueless. Almost 30 years old, smart, successful, great woman. And CLUELESS. My family saw something in him - they hated him. But I was in love. And BLIND.

Then we decided to move together, back to his hometown 100 miles away. Away from my friends and family. To a house in the middle of nowhere. No phone, no vehicle for me when he was gone so much. Things got better for awhile, until I got a phone turned on... and replaced the PC he'd talked me into leaving behind. Things got WAY worse. Verbal and emotional abuse became the norm for me. He said I was cheating while he worked, came home at lunch daily hoping to "catch" me. I was sure I could show him that wasn't true - that I LOVED him!

We were together nearly a year the first time he physically hurt me, pinned me and gripped my arms and bruised them horribly, to get me to tell him where I hid the $ 300 bill money so he could get high and drunk. I didn't budge, stubborn as I am and as important as financial security is to me. Things got worse. I could not speak to people - he checked the phone, saw a number he swore he didn't know, I told him it was my MOTHER... he called that number at 4am to prove me wrong. It was indeed my Mom, and was she PISSED. He got on my Yahoo, saw that the only person I'd spoken to in months was my Sag BFF in TX, to send me her new pics. He always swore I was cheating online and deleting the evidence. He'd hit me, swear he'd never do it again, and be Mr. Perfect for a couple weeks.

Things got worse. He injured his back at work, had surgery, and became addicted to Vicodin and later Methadone while waiting for a settlement from them. His addiction became HUGE. We never had joint checking, no matter how many times he suggested it. He started stealing checks from me here and there (usually one from the back of the book I was using), forging my name and overdrafting me. Then he started stealing books of my checks. Then he filed for a lost ATM card, using it to steal MY money. It was hard for me to be so unsupportive and "mean".. but I had my bank cards canceled, ONE card reissued, my account PASSWORDED, and destroyed ALL of my checks, forcing me to have to get money orders to pay certain bills, and paying the rest online. I caught hell like you cannot IMAGINE, but I changed every password on every online account, including email, so he couldn't recover them. I had to stop keeping cash in the house, he would search until he found my new hiding spot. He would find my bank card again, and clear out my checking account AGAIN. I got a judgement against an old landlord, and she sent me a payment on it every two weeks. The checks stopped coming after awhile. I thought the landlord was being cheeky; she was always pissed the judge ruled against her. Mr. Toxic swore he never touched them. I took my old landlord to court again because she'd stopped paying... and she had photocopies of EVERY bi-weekly check she'd sent me, regular as clockwork, month after month... 75% of them were Mr. Toxic's forged signing of my name. I was humiliated. I was FURIOUS. I got my ASS BEAT when I confronted him about it. I pissed blood for two weeks.

I started attending Al-Anon, for my OWN sanity. That was a slap in the face to him, and I caught hell for it because he's NOT AN ALCOHOLIC DAMNIT! But I wouldn't stop going, twice a week. Mr. Toxic never hit me in the face, save the one time he pinned me and SLAPPED me about 15 times as hard as he could. He didn't want to mark up my face. But the rest of my body carried the bruises, and my mind carried the scars of the horrible things he said to me. He often threw food at me, laughing. he threw other things too. He once threw a full bottle of Coke at my face, I ducked. The hard narrow cap hit me in the forehead, above my right eye, splitting me wide open. 16 stitches. The scary part? If I hadn't started ducking, it would have taken out my right eye. Deep down, I know this - I know I'd have been blinded. He was so sweet after that - but by then, my heart was ice. I had to get out.

After a couple years of SECRET abuse, of his promises of what he would do if I EVER called the police on him, he stopped caring if the kids (or his friends) were around... they SAW and HEARD the absolutely disgusting and vile and loathsome things that came out of his mouth about me, their MOM! They began hating him for how he treated me. He called it disrespect and children who weren't properly raised because I'm a shitty mother. Eventually, he turned his mouth on THEM, and my (virgin) teenage daughters were called whores and tramps and sluts and bitches. OTHERS had called the police perhaps 8 different times, but never ME. But I wouldn't prosecute, couldn't risk it. I got pregnant and miscarried. Oh God. I had to get out NOW, for my kids. I got a paper one day, started calling places to rent... he found out. I got the worst beating I'd ever had then. As he stood over my shaking, beaten body, he swore to me if I ever left him, he would make me pay. No, he would not kill me - that wouldn't be enough anymore. He would kill my children. Then he would drive back to my hometown and kill my mother and brothers still there. And leave me alive. If he'd spend life in prison for merely killing ME - he wanted to make sure it was "worth it" and that I would suffer for betraying him, for the rest of my life. The mask finally slipped all the way off, and I was frozen in fear of what had been hiding underneath... evil like I've never known.

I shut down, I became a robot trying to get through one day at a time. I realized that HE would have to leave ME. So, I decided to drive him to it. I stopped cooking unless he was gone. (When he was there, my kids ate a lot of Ramen, grilled cheese, canned soups and veggies. Hotdogs. PB&J.) It took him two months to realize he only ever found evidence of me COOKING... as leftovers in the fridge when he got back from a day or three running with buddies. I stopped cleaning the house, something I KNEW would drive him bonkers. My vacuum collected dust. My DUST collected dust! I only did enough laundry for the kids and I to get by, never HIS anymore. The kids still did dishes every night, but I often let them skip it when I knew he'd be home that night - I wanted him to see the dirty dishes and HATE it. I never refused him sex when he wanted it, but I just laid there, staring off into space until he was done. Eventually, he hated fucking a dead, emotionless fish. Eventually, he hated coming home at all. Eventually, he turned the garage into a Man Shed thing and spent his time out there. It was summer, so he even put a BED out there. That was near the end of the end. Finally, he got a letter saying that his disability claim was finally approved, be expecting a check soon. That very night, he picked a fight with me, saying I was screwing his buddies in the Man Shed, broke his hand swinging at me and missing (hit the wall).. and it was finally over. He loaded up his things and left. He took a lot of things that were mine, or ours. The huge movie collection, DVD player, digital camera, etc. He demanded the big screen TV and the computer *I* bought, but I wouldn't budge. I had proof they belong to me, that I paid for them - he hadn't had an income for 3.5 years. He took his cell phone, but I still paid the bill for BOTH for nearly 8 more months. He told me he'd break in one day and rob me blind. He told me he'd plant drugs in my basement and call in an anonymous tip, get me arrested and my kids taken away. Local Chief of Police knew us well. HATED Mr. Toxic, LOVED me and the kids, wanted us to find a way to get him out of our lives, wished he could get me to prosecute anything. I called Chief, warned him what Mr. Toxic was planning, Chief laughed. He knew better, knew I don't drink or do drugs, much less deal or store them. If I wanted, he'd bring the drug dogs in to clear my house out now that Mr. Toxic moved out. My house was cleared.

I went on with my life. Cleaned my house back up. Began eating and sleeping again. Soon, Mr. Toxic wanted to come back. I carefully refused, saying I was so hurt by him leaving after five years that I'd need more time. He found a new gf for awhile, I began dating another guy (nice Libra boy that it didn't work out with) and Mr. Toxic began STALKING me then. He would call or show up all hours of the day and night. Beg and cry and plead at my door, at my windows, on the phone. He would threaten, cajole, scream, sweet talk, fight, beg, scream some more. I wouldn't budge. He pulled a nice little scam and cleared the remaining $ 9,000+ (He'd already taken $ 11,000 over two years) out of the House Fund savings account. Cleaned me right out, everything I'd been saving for a down payment on a house. Then begged to come back, tears in his eyes.

I read a lot of books, took some classes, I began slowly healing. Nearly a year after the breakup, I began seeing my current Libra. My beloved Libra had a HUGE mess to clean up! Mr. Toxic was still stalking me. I finally ended the contract with the phones, got a new cell phone, and moved to another town without telling him. We moved from start to finish in four days. Mr. Toxic never knew until he stalked an empty house. He somehow found out what town I'd moved to, and drove around it for three days to figure out which house was mine. The stalking escalated. My Libra had to get involved and stand up for me, telling Mr. Toxic to NEVER, EVER contact me again. Big peacocky show of machismo, but Mr. Toxic DID fade away, once I had a man willing to stand between him and I. He really was a huge pussy deep down.

My Libra has stood by me all this time, through all of the hurting and healing I've had to do. He respects me, does not scream or yell, would never call me a filthy name, much less lay a finger on me. He loves the kids, and they love him because he treats me well. I know I held my breath for the first 6 weeks we were dating, waiting to see HOW we would fight and argue, scared of anything TOO perfect. I was SO GLAD we got into an argument at 6 weeks!! We argue, but it's more like "discussions" where we each present our pov, and either reach a compromise or agree to disagree. I waited to see how he would be when drunk - he's a happy, silly, sappy drunk, never mean or rude or belligerent. I waited to see so many things - that I now see!

Now I know the difference between a Good Man.. and a Toxic Man.

Nefer you had me holding my breath and sitting on the edge of my seat, you seen it all been there and done that, thank you for sharing your story, I felt sad reading how much you endured and the loss of self esteem and money and pride and love, very horrible experience but you were sent a good man that got your back, almost makes it worth it in a weird way.

My goodness, nefer! That is quite the story - it must have been hard to write this and rehash the horrible memories. YOu are in a much better (and safer) place now and I am very proud of you that you were able to leave that situation. No one can really understand how horrible it is to be in that situation unless you have lived it.

See, my ex of four years was a severe drug addict (but I didn't find out until 6 months into our relationship, when i was already hooked). He stole from me, manipulated me, abused me mentally and physically and even cheated in the end. I know what it is to be with an addict. My Libra man saved me from Mr.addict. I was able to cut all ties with the ex when I met him and I was strong enough to move on. Mr. Libra treated amazing - I never had a realtionship so wonderful. He never raised his voice - EVER! Even with this episode when we were on vacation...i said he "snapped", but I don't mean it in a sense where he got crazy on me. He didn't raise his voice at ALL. For the first time I just saw him mad, but it was not in an abusive way. He ws still gentle.

I realize he has issues he needs to deal with, but this still sucks. He is an amazing person. Ughhhhh! Now I am becoming confused. I just miss him so much. I miss his incredible smile! 😢

You two are really helping me get through this though...you my angels! lol

Thank you, ladies. I have no regrets - everything shapes us, everything happens for a reason. The GOOD times are OH SO SWEET, now that I have truly BAD times to compare it to. I will never take real love for granted. I'm glad there was a man (buffer) between Mr. Toxic and my beloved Libra... The other Libra, and I DID love him though the relationship was not meant to work out, served to teach me some things as well. I was a shell, a husk, I was broken and not whole. But the experience galvanized me, the catalyst to me finally taking an active role in healing myself.

crushed, I know that you know what it's like; you've been there too. What you don't know is that this guy, your Libra, may just be your "buffer" between your ex and your next - and have a purpose to serve in your life, something to teach you. If you've attracted two Toxics in a row... I need to introduce YOU to Rori!

I left SO much out of that - that's a tiny nutshell of 5 YEARS. But Mr. Toxic was a fabulous man in many ways. Very caring and loving. Charming, adoring, thoughtful. SUCH a textbook Leo! Tender, sweet, and funny. Grand gestures of love, flowers, jewelry, heartfelt love letters... Could make me feel like a Princess, like the QUEEN. When he was good he was very, very good. He was not Toxic on purpose; no one WANTS to be that way. It hurt him that he hurt me. He truly wanted to be better for me, to be the man I deserved - but he was broken in a way that I could not fix, that I could not even deal with. In a way, he was as helpless as I was, perhaps even moreso. He'll never be able to escape himself and what he's done. I found out he'd done pretty much the same thing to his girlfriend of eight years before me. He can't stop, I don't think he ever will. He has to live with himself, and I wouldn't wish THAT on anyone. (No wonder he does drugs! *rueful grin*)

I'm not saying your Libra is ABSOLUTELY Toxic. He might just be Difficult. I MIGHT be triggered by the "perfection" of the first six months, and the slipping of the Mask. But I FEEL that he is Toxic. Toxic Men are not horrible to everyone. They are wonderful men, great friends, caring spouses and fathers - until triggered by something you never saw coming. Toxic Men are GOOD at being "normal" for awhile. They're GOOD at being PERFECT for awhile. But the center cannot hold; it all eventually crumbles - usually only AFTER she is emotionally vested in him and hooked. Then it escalates until the end, whatever the end may be.

Nefer, I've enjoyed your posts, and most of the times, I think wow she's got great insight not only to Libra men but to life itself. Now I understand a lil more abt you, You are the perfect example of that old saying what doesnt kill you makes you stronger.. I have this admiration for people that have overcome bad bad and even horrible things in life and still smile and dont lose that hope in life.. Its always great to see or know someone, to endure something hard and dont get stuck in bitter, or even destructive behaviour..

Congrants on your new chance, and enjoy the support of your kids and Libra, which must feel like heaven, after what you've been thru.. We all know how loving can Libra's be..

So Tiki, Nefer what is Rori—

Nefer thank you for sharing ur story it was very movin iv been with a toxic man and know them too well!..im so happy for u in the fact that u have remained strong and found urself a good man(And LIBRA @ that!😉, lucky thing!!)....

Tiki33 ur advice is spot on- this is definatly not a good match by the signs of things im a Virgo with a Libra man and i can tell u from now...A Libra and Virgo match is not easy, it takes a lot of work from both sides it makes things even harder if the Libra has insecurity issues(its hard if any man has insecurity issues) if like me, a virgo hates to ever have our fidelities questioned as most virgos in love only have eyes for our partner in question...this will become a strain on ur emotions (trust me iv been there!)
Tikis right its good he was grown enough to end it now before u both got hurt!

One thing u should do is take the good times(i knw there must be plenty-libras are sooooo much fun!😉 when thir good lol) and keep it movin until u find someone more compatible.x

I don't know if I can adequately sum up "Rori" - you have to experience it to know what I mean. It might even possibly be MAGIC. o.o

"Rori" is Rori Raye. She wrote "Have The Relationship You Want" and a score of other self-help and relationship tools about (for example) how to feel and constructively express your true and genuine emotions and needs and boundaries - whereby connecting to your man on an emotional level previously unknown to most women. How to Reconnect Your Relationship if it's somehow gone cold and distant. How to be a Modern Siren, genuinely wonderful and magnetic, like magic. How to be a better woman for yourself, how to stop self-destructive patterns and habits. How to go about finding and Targeting Mr. Right. And how to spot the Toxics from the Difficults and the Goods LOL You will tap areas we women have, but never used, never knew to use. She will teach you new ways to open up and express yourself. Once you help yourself, real love practically falls into your lap - easier than you'd ever believe possible. I'd have paid ten, a hundred, a THOUSAND times what she charges for her programs. I've spent more in traditional therapy!

Her (invaluable) free blog: Rori Raye

(Sorry for the woefully inadequate testimonial, Rori. I tried though!)

Hey guys - Ok, so I am completely miserable today and don't know what to do. I can't stop thinking about him and it's getting to the point where I can't focus on anything else. I hate feeling like this. I am so sad.

It's weird, because I have never felt this horrible after a break up with anyone. It feels so different than any other time. I didn't feel this horrible after my break ups of 3 yrs, 5yrs and 4yrs - Combined! My thoughts are consumed with him and I feel like I just need to see him/speak to him. It's taking all my power not to pick up the phone to call - but I am weak in this dept. and I don't know how long I will last.

I am contemplating writing him a letter to express my feelings, instead. I don't know what this will accomplish (if anything). I just feel in my heart that we are meant for eachother. Yes, we both had traumatic pasts (I obviously handled my experiences a bit better than him), but I really feel we can overcome everything together. He is the sweetest, most caring and kind person and I have never been so settled an happy in my entire life than I was with Mr. Libra (prior to the break up). What we had was amazing. I know he has issues (but then again, who doesn't)? If he is willing to face them then isn't it worth a shot with us? I feel like I can't let this one go without a fight.

Ladies...am I going crazy? Is this just part of the healing process? Help me with this one! I don't know what to do and I sure as hec don't want to feel this way anymore. What do I do? 😢

crushed --- we ALL know that horrible needy feeling of ocd-type thoughts and wanting to call and wanting to email and wanting to write a letter............. and you know what, every time i succomb to those urges, and email, or call/leave msg...... i ALWAYS automatically regret it. it's called impulse control. and we've all been there. the best thing for me is to work out a system either with myself, or with a girlfriend. meaning ever time you start having the urge to call him, call your best friend. work it out with her that that is the reason you are calling, and she will help you get through the urge so that the call to her replaces the feeling of the call to him. or find something to do on your own. i don't know, pop in a cd that makes you fell good, do 50 situps or jump rope for 15 minutes...... whatever it takes to substitute that urge. trying to merely SUPPRESS it, will not be enough for you. eventually you will reach the point where the thoughts don't control your life, and you will still have your pride for not having called/left msgs/written/emailed/stalked/etc....... it is doubtful that it would produce the results you want anyway!!! 🙂

I read that, and it's SO familiar. And SO self-destructive. All I can say, crushed... is PLEASE go to the blog. There's enough reading there to keep you occupied for a couple days at least, while you decide on what to do next - which has the added advantage of not contacting (chasing!) him right now, which would surely backfire. Men don't want you to chase them, they don't want you to Lean Forward! Boy Energy is HIS job in a relationship. GIRL Energy is yours. Take a few days, read the blogs, see if you don't get a different perspective... and an idea or two of what to do next.

OH.. and P.S... in case you're afraid that what you'll be told is to "ditch the tool" or "dump the Toxic loser".. NEVER. Rori Raye (and us who learn from her) do NOT tell you that you must leave OR stay with a man, no matter how "bad" he is. It's always on YOU, it's always YOUR choice, and we do NOT judge you for your choices. All Rori deals with is YOU YOU YOU... how to feel better inside, how to deal with things that come up in constructive ways, how to be the woman you want to be. She'll help you find your sanity in this situation again, but NEVER tell you to dump a man. And believe me, there are women who have had it far, far worse than you and I!

Actually, I must correct myself.. I HAVE seen her tell a woman (or few) to leave a PHYSICALLY ABUSIVE MAN and seek help with a women's shelter, a safe house, free counseling, etc. while they work on themselves and the emotional damage he left on them. If I'd known her at the time, and told her my story, she WOULD have told me to RUN NOT WALK with my kids to the nearest shelter. Men who beat women are BROKEN INSIDE, they are not "curable" and do not "change".. they only get better at hiding it and burying it for awhile. But she never judges you or "washes her hands of you" should you choose to stay with even a physically abusive man. And for ALL OTHER "bad behaviors" of men, the rest is up to YOU and what YOU choose to do about it, and she won't tell you to stay or go.

It's hard to get through the weekend, because I am used to spending it with him. I am in total hermit mode and don't feel like being with friends or family. I will take your advice and keep myself busy. And nefer, thanks for the site I will check it out and try to keep myself busy that way!

Oh dayum Nefer hell you dayum near made me cry. I hope Leo's don't act that way in real life. LOL! It is not funny but I think I am going to let a Libra man find me. These other men of the zodiac are toxic as hell. Can't say I am not or have not been in that situation.