@truecap
14 Years10,000+ Posts
How many generations does it take for an immigrant family to completely "nationalize" to a country?
I was reading this article http://hsp.org/sites/default/files/legacy_files/migrated/reading2.1.pdf
It was explaining about how Americans at the turn of the century were concerned with country loyalty from immigrants and tried to force Americazation onto immigrants at the with mandatory English classes, offering American cooking classes, indoctrination of patriotism of the school children, etc.
It wasn't that successful. While some immigrants were excited to become Americans, some were resistant to it being forced - which is completely understandable.
I think it should come naturally and it will.
I just wonder if anyone else has ever wondered this. I see young people from 2nd/3rd generation families who are more American than their elders and the elders seem to be upset by the change, disappointed the younger people are not caring as much about the old country and identify more with their new country.
And I use America as an example only to make it eaiser in writing. Immigration occurs in every country, whether it be England, Japan, etc.
And please don't turn this thread into the pros and cons of immigration or an argument of politics on immigration. I want to look at the personal feelings and aspects from the immigrants point of view.
Posted by truecap
I was reading this article http://hsp.org/sites/default/files/legacy_files/migrated/reading2.1.pdfAmericazation
Americanization - ok, ok, I can't spell. lol!
It depends. I have friends who are asian. But born here, they are totally Irish though.
One can speak his parents language etc. But feels much more connected to the city he grew up in. One has an Irish mother but a non Irish father and feels very Irish.
Posted by SensitiveBlues
i like diversity of culture, thoughts, and peoplei don't like homogenization
Yes, diversity is good, but eventually over time younger generations will no longer identify.
My family came here from Ireland in 1652 (a long, long time ago). I do feel a natural pull to Ireland, but I don't know if it's in the blood or if it's because I think I should or have been taught. We don't celebrate any Irish customs though and probably haven't done so for 100s of years.
I think socially in larger communities though it seems there is a colour line. But that is at least what you see portrayed in the media.
Racism is an general obstacle in society to anything though. On both sides etc.
Posted by Vegetta91
I'm not sure about the complete nationalization but usually :
The first generation gets citizenship
Around 2-3 generation seems to get familiar with the country they live in so they get pretty close but depends on what immigrants are we talking about(their culture)
Muslims for example might or might never fully nationalize because of the different culture
The younger people I see that I mentioned are from middle Eastern countries. They seem eager to be like their peers, normal American teenagers, however the parents are resistant.
Posted by Rambunctious76
3 generations.
I thought it would be longer, really. Because each generation will teach the younger, however as the younger generation gradually lets go, they will teach less and less to their descendants.
I went to school with a few muslim girls. It's not different from being simply religious in any religion really. But few people are these days.
My dad considered himself an American the minute he set foot here.
Married an American woman, and as soon as the kids got to school age, only English was spoken in our home.
Posted by Rambunctious76
3 generations.I thought it would be longer, really. Because each generation will teach the younger, however as the younger generation gradually lets go, they will teach less and less to their descendants.
There are many factors involved in this...
click to expand
Yes, many factors
Posted by sultrykitty
My dad considered himself an American the minute he set foot here.Married an American woman, and as soon as the kids got to school age, only English was spoken in our home.
That happens, too. Probably much more than we know.
Posted by sultrykitty
My dad considered himself an American the minute he set foot here.Married an American woman, and as soon as the kids got to school age, only English was spoken in our home.
i would probably do the same thing, if i decided to live somewhere, it's in my best interest to respect the country am in. usually it's reverse. people i know who left my country always tell bad things about their new home, how everyone is stupid and so on. i find it annoying.
click to expand
Then why go there?
I can't imagine how hard it would be moving to a new country permanently. Especially if it is vastly different from what you're used to. The idea of learning new customs, geography, languages, mannerisms, etc. seems overwhelming.
I think it would be the bravest thing someone could do.
Posted by Rambunctious76
3 generations.I thought it would be longer, really. Because each generation will teach the younger, however as the younger generation gradually lets go, they will teach less and less to their descendants.
3 is the average. Usually by the 3rd generation the culture gets diluted and assimilated with other cultures. By the 5th generation only residuals will be left. I'm of Dutch descent and am 5th generation. However I understand people in the 2nd generation in my family could barely speak Dutch after assimilation with Asian cultures in Asia. Neither my grandfather, my dad nor I can speak a single word of Dutch.
click to expand
Makes sense.
Posted by capricornmoon
So is your Fiancé from a cultural background?
No. I'm just interested in the subject.
Why does everyone think every thread I make is about him?
Posted by SensitiveBlues
fiance? what? congratulations
Not yet.
My family are mexicans and came to the US when I was a baby. We still continue to farm. My future kids (hopefully with @rockyroadicecream ) will continue to raise animals and use them for meat, milk, and eggs. The thing is since Rocky is African American, the family dynamic will be unique.
Posted by Rambunctious76
3 generations.I agree. First generation moves to America and still speaks their language and participates in customs from their home country. When their children are born they do their best to keep those traditions.
The second generation grew up in America and became totally immersed in school. They often marry outside their culture and adopt new traditions while trying to incorporate the old.
The third generation ends up like me, so ethnically mixed that I can identify with many cultures but I don't truly belong to any.click to expand
The identity thing throws a twist in it. That is a concern. Your kids probably won't have that problem though.
Did this help you understand your situation?
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I'm curious how many generations does it take for a family to completely nationalize to a new country. What I mean is to become 100% indoctrinated to that country's customs, develop 100% patriotism, let go of the customs of their former country - act and feel 100% American or French, for example.
I think it's natural to want to hang onto "roots" and old customs, I'm not knocking that or say they shouldn't, but eventually generations will forgo those customs. I'm thinking 5,6 generations maybe before the newer generations feel like their "roots" are the roots of the now not-so-new country.