LetltB
@LetltB
12 Years5,000+ Posts
Comments: 1 · Posts: 9186 · Topics: 179
#PATRIOT (Page 3)
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Posted by tiki33
"This month two judges issued two different opinions about the NSA??s controversial bulk metadata collection program. Judge Richard Leon ruled in Washington, D.C., that the program likely violated the law. Judge William Pauley ruled in New York that the program did not violate the law. Judge Pauley??s opinion is both correct legally and more sensible than Judge Leon??s, but it's not hard to imagine that even our conservative Supreme Court could go the other way.'
By Eric Posner
CARLYLE GROUP - 9/11 - NEW YORK. Enough said.
Posted by tiki33
So many people lose sight of what's truly happening because they hate our Government and they spend gynormous amounts of time trying to out them as evil forces but I ain't got time for that shit okay,
I don't hate our Government, and don't think for one second you represent my thoughts.
I despise those who ARE in government committing treason against this country which is no different than standing on top of the Statue of Liberty burning the U.S. Flag. What's more disgusting is people like you who witness it wave at those burning it and think it's ok.
The epidemic of pain killers in this country isn't by accident, because they too have the same attitude as you as do those on the free american ride called welfare. Just don't stand behind me when shit hits the fan, you will get hurt.
Posted by tiki33
Nah I'm not scared, no reason to be, I see what's going on evil and good, I'm not afraid of evil but you are which is why you have so much hate and fear for our Gov't least you seem like you do.
Posted by tiki33
Don't get me wrong I do understand that history can repeat itself and we must be vigilant that history never repeats itself so I do get it but I am not going to have a problem with my country/government because so many people say we should. I don't like a lot of what goes on in Congress/Government but I love my country.
Snowden aside
You don't see the Government and the people running it as separate from our country.
You see them as one entity.
Why is that?
The system itself isn't the problem; it's the abuse and/or violation of the system (Constitution) that is the problem-- for most people, anyway.
Posted by tiki33
As for the end goal, none of us really know, we think we know because some fool decided he know and we should just believe the NWO garbage that's out there, not all of it is garbage but a significant amount of it is made up.
But what I do know is that we've all managed to be born, to thrive, to live a decent existence under these so called dark forces.
So many people lose sight of what's truly happening because they hate our Governmentand they spend gynormous amounts of time trying to out them as evil forces but I ain't got time for that shit okay, I know our Gov't and some of the powers behind have evil forces just like any other Gov't on the planet but I believe in the American people which trumps any evil/plotting that's going on. I believe we will fight, we will take a firm stand, we will protect ourselves and we will do what's necessary by any means necessary. Some of us are awake, we know what's going on.click to expand
Are you talking about the apocalypse or something?
I feel like we just aren't having the same conversation anymore, tiki.
No LetItB don't think for one second you represent my thoughts.
To pass over one judges ruling verses another judges ruling does not make you right.
There are all kinds of epidemics in the world, no one is forcing people to take pain killers nor to be drug addicts, I've taken pain killers and I'm not a drug addict and never have I ever been addicted to any kind of drug. Welfare is not the biggest issue were dealing with here. People have free will, they are lining up to buy marijuana and take drugs, that's their choice. So now we should blame the government for people having free will.
The anger and finger pointing turns me off and I just have a hard time listening to and agreeing with bitterness and blame.
I don't have to stand behind you, I'll stand with you, I'll stand beside you and I'll be doing the same thing you're doing, fighting. Nothing to be afraid of. Death is an honor when it comes to serving my country.
Too many spoiled over privileged american's in the world that have a problem with someone having more power than them therefore they must bring the system down completely, tear down the fabric of society because she/he doesn't have much power over his own life and to me they are more dangerous than the government, what's disgusting is observing a bunch scary fearful american's (I refuse to use a capital A for those type of american's) the kind that spend their waking hours trying to tear down something they can't control but desperately want to control. Mental illness is for real, lots of american's need mental evals and some lithium to cure those delusions of grandeur and nazi camps.
Unless something changes significantly that points to him being a patriot/hero, to me he'll remain a self serving narcissistic cowardly assclown.
To pass over one judges ruling verses another judges ruling does not make you right.
There are all kinds of epidemics in the world, no one is forcing people to take pain killers nor to be drug addicts, I've taken pain killers and I'm not a drug addict and never have I ever been addicted to any kind of drug. Welfare is not the biggest issue were dealing with here. People have free will, they are lining up to buy marijuana and take drugs, that's their choice. So now we should blame the government for people having free will.
The anger and finger pointing turns me off and I just have a hard time listening to and agreeing with bitterness and blame.
I don't have to stand behind you, I'll stand with you, I'll stand beside you and I'll be doing the same thing you're doing, fighting. Nothing to be afraid of. Death is an honor when it comes to serving my country.
Too many spoiled over privileged american's in the world that have a problem with someone having more power than them therefore they must bring the system down completely, tear down the fabric of society because she/he doesn't have much power over his own life and to me they are more dangerous than the government, what's disgusting is observing a bunch scary fearful american's (I refuse to use a capital A for those type of american's) the kind that spend their waking hours trying to tear down something they can't control but desperately want to control. Mental illness is for real, lots of american's need mental evals and some lithium to cure those delusions of grandeur and nazi camps.
Unless something changes significantly that points to him being a patriot/hero, to me he'll remain a self serving narcissistic cowardly assclown.
There's a lot of info in this thread-- I have no idea if this has already been posted.
If it has, it bears repeating:
From The Snowden Conundrum
In Smith v. Maryland (1979), the Supreme Court held that we have no privacy right in noncontent data gathered by telephone companies.
But this past December, U.S. District Judge Richard Leon pointed out that Smith involved a —one-time, targeted request for data
regarding an individual suspect in a criminal investigation.??
By contrast, the NSA program is a —daily, all-encompassing, indiscriminate dump?? of data from people not suspected of any wrongdoing.
Moreover, wrote Judge Leon, the government —does not cite a single instance?? in which the data —actually stopped an imminent attack.??
** Link.
If it has, it bears repeating:
From The Snowden Conundrum
In Smith v. Maryland (1979), the Supreme Court held that we have no privacy right in noncontent data gathered by telephone companies.
But this past December, U.S. District Judge Richard Leon pointed out that Smith involved a —one-time, targeted request for data
regarding an individual suspect in a criminal investigation.??
By contrast, the NSA program is a —daily, all-encompassing, indiscriminate dump?? of data from people not suspected of any wrongdoing.
Moreover, wrote Judge Leon, the government —does not cite a single instance?? in which the data —actually stopped an imminent attack.??
** Link.
Posted by tiki33
The anger and finger pointing turns me off and I just have a hard time listening to and agreeing with bitterness and blame.
I don't have to stand behind you, I'll stand with you, I'll stand beside you and I'll be doing the same thing you're doing, fighting. Nothing to be afraid of. Death is an honor when it comes to serving my country.
Too many spoiled over privileged american's in the world that have a problem with someone having more power than them therefore they must bring the system down completely, tear down the fabric of society because she/he doesn't have much power over his own life and to me they are more dangerous than the government, what's disgusting is observing a bunch scary fearful american's (I refuse to use a capital A for those type of american's) the kind that spend their waking hours trying to tear down something they can't control but desperately want to control. Mental illness is for real, lots of american's need mental evals and some lithium to cure those delusions of grandeur and nazi camps.
Unless something changes significantly that points to him being a patriot/hero, to me he'll remain a self serving narcissistic cowardly assclown.
Interesting..so I'm not allowed to be angry or place blame to those repsonsible? Hate to break it to you but that's a constitutional right as well. You won't be standing beside me, because you do not represent what I do, as you have so eloquently described yourself.. but no worries, you won't be alone as there are millions of ignorant people you can hide behind. One other thing I'd like to make...regarding your words of "fear".
"People Should Not Be Afraid of Their Government, the Government Should Be Afraid of It's People"
~Alan Moore
To call Snowden a narcissist is very laughable considering this entire discussion surrounds who the real narcissists are.. and down the road that will be your problem.
The truth will come out. It always does. 😉
"Interesting..so I'm not allowed to be angry or place blame to those repsonsible? Hate to break it to you but that's a constitutional right as well. You won't be standing beside me, because you do not represent what I do, as you have so eloquently described yourself.. but no worries, you won't be alone as there are millions of ignorant people you can hide behind. One other thing I'd like to make...regarding your words of "fear".
"People Should Not Be Afraid of Their Government, the Government Should Be Afraid of It's People"
~Alan Moore
To call Snowden a narcissist is very laughable considering this entire discussion surrounds who the real narcissists are.. and down the road that will be your problem.
The truth will come out. It always does."
You are allowed to do what you want to do. As I said I have a hard time listening to and agreeing with bitterness and blame.
We do agree that it's our constitutional right that you can be bitter and angry and under that constitution I have the free will to not agree and not listen to bitter angry people if I chose not to.
You don't know where I'll stand, oh wait more grandiose tunnel vision thinking, seems you can't relate to people that may not agree with you but stand for something and will stand beside you if it comes down to that.
Funny how you point out millions of ignorant american's and you happen to be one of them, take the plank out of your own eye before you point the finger at me/us and when you're pointing the finger at me/us Americans there are 4 fingers pointing back at you.
Snowden is like a lot of the Narcissist in my/this generation---Trying to turn there nobody status into somebody--Facebook/Instagram page full of selfies--can spin it so many times and say the same thing over and over again and suddenly everyone it brainwashed into believing it.
I see no honor in what he did but I'm open to changing my opinion about him but so far nothing has changed therefore my opinion will remain the same.
"People Should Not Be Afraid of Their Government, the Government Should Be Afraid of It's People"
~Alan Moore
To call Snowden a narcissist is very laughable considering this entire discussion surrounds who the real narcissists are.. and down the road that will be your problem.
The truth will come out. It always does."
You are allowed to do what you want to do. As I said I have a hard time listening to and agreeing with bitterness and blame.
We do agree that it's our constitutional right that you can be bitter and angry and under that constitution I have the free will to not agree and not listen to bitter angry people if I chose not to.
You don't know where I'll stand, oh wait more grandiose tunnel vision thinking, seems you can't relate to people that may not agree with you but stand for something and will stand beside you if it comes down to that.
Funny how you point out millions of ignorant american's and you happen to be one of them, take the plank out of your own eye before you point the finger at me/us and when you're pointing the finger at me/us Americans there are 4 fingers pointing back at you.
Snowden is like a lot of the Narcissist in my/this generation---Trying to turn there nobody status into somebody--Facebook/Instagram page full of selfies--can spin it so many times and say the same thing over and over again and suddenly everyone it brainwashed into believing it.
I see no honor in what he did but I'm open to changing my opinion about him but so far nothing has changed therefore my opinion will remain the same.
Know your enemy. Know yourself - Sun Tsu
IF the NSA feels the need to spy on American citizens, then it is because the American citizen is viewed
as the enemy of the NSA. It doesn't matter who is being monitored. Assume that ALL are being monitored.
Just remember that these things are all part of a much larger picture. One piece of a giant puzzle. A pawn,
among many, on the strategic grand chess board of clandestine metageopolitical power.
They have all the money. They have all the power. What they are aiming for is global dominance. Global Control..... in and of all things.
That is their ultimate orgasm. And it originates in the spirit world.
IF the NSA feels the need to spy on American citizens, then it is because the American citizen is viewed
as the enemy of the NSA. It doesn't matter who is being monitored. Assume that ALL are being monitored.
Just remember that these things are all part of a much larger picture. One piece of a giant puzzle. A pawn,
among many, on the strategic grand chess board of clandestine metageopolitical power.
They have all the money. They have all the power. What they are aiming for is global dominance. Global Control..... in and of all things.
That is their ultimate orgasm. And it originates in the spirit world.
Posted by SteveW
If this is not the oath he took for the constitution: what oath are you referring to?
Point taken. Federal employees do take the same oath. I wasn't aware that it was for anyone else save military officers. As a defense contractor for Booz Allen Hamilton, he wouldn't have taken such an oath. I know I didn't when I worked for Titan some 10 years ago. As someone who took a similar oath and signed NDA previously cited, I don't feel any obligation to the military's standards or rules. My contract with them is expired in good standing. I personally chose to leave the defense sector for personal and political reasons as well. When I left that field in 2004, I was utterly disgusted with the Bush administration's manipulation of intelligence which lead us to an unnecessary war in Iraq.
On the other hand, I still am not worried about the NSA spying on me personally. Like I said, there are redacted versions of USSID 18 all over the internet. There is also a plethora of information about FISA courts, and the warrants they issue. They're black and white about these things.
Posted by MrFirebird
Know your enemy. Know yourself - Sun Tsu
IF the NSA feels the need to spy on American citizens, then it is because the American citizen is viewed
as the enemy of the NSA. It doesn't matter who is being monitored. Assume that ALL are being monitored.
Just remember that these things are all part of a much larger picture. One piece of a giant puzzle. A pawn,
among many, on the strategic grand chess board of clandestine metageopolitical power.
They have all the money. They have all the power. What they are aiming for is global dominance. Global Control..... in and of all things.
That is their ultimate orgasm. And it originates in the spirit world.
Everything does.
+1
Posted by tiki33
You are allowed to do what you want to do. As I said I have a hard time listening to and agreeing with bitterness and blame.
We do agree that it's our constitutional right that you can be bitter and angry and under that constitution I have the free will to not agree and not listen to bitter angry people if I chose not to.
You don't know where I'll stand, oh wait more grandiose tunnel vision thinking, seems you can't relate to people that may not agree with you but stand for something and will stand beside you if it comes down to that.
Funny how you point out millions of ignorant american's and you happen to be one of them, take the plank out of your own eye before you point the finger at me/us and when you're pointing the finger at me/us Americans there are 4 fingers pointing back at you.
smh...just remember it's the bitterness and disgust who many of us have that's going to save your ass one day. Snowden is considered to this day as a "genius" by his colleagues. For one simple reason only..he THINKS and then he got off his ass and did something for his country! The generation you speak of "thinks" & expects things to be handed to them.
What's very relevant here tiki, which btw spins hypocrisy your way is you are looking at purported "selfies" in sheepfacebook, (your generation behavioral b.s.), and judged, yet STILL have not grasped what this man has done or why. That in of itself speaks volumes.
Thank goodness you and the rest will have those four fingers left to hold out, will be good for toilet paper for those who have to take a shit in the field, nothing more.
Posted by MrFirebird
Know your enemy. Know yourself - Sun Tsu
IF the NSA feels the need to spy on American citizens, then it is because the American citizen is viewed
as the enemy of the NSA. It doesn't matter who is being monitored. Assume that ALL are being monitored.
Just remember that these things are all part of a much larger picture. One piece of a giant puzzle. A pawn,
among many, on the strategic grand chess board of clandestine metageopolitical power.
They have all the money. They have all the power. What they are aiming for is global dominance. Global Control..... in and of all things.
That is their ultimate orgasm. And it originates in the spirit world.
+1 we are allll slaves, the illegal aliens they dump off by the bus loads assists as camouflage.
..hope you are well, good to see you. 🙂
Posted by Scorp73
On the other hand, I still am not worried about the NSA spying on me personally. Like I said, there are redacted versions of USSID 18 all over the internet. There is also a plethora of information about FISA courts, and the warrants they issue. They're black and white about these things.
I'm not worried either. The point here is WHAT do you really believe it's being used for?
When everyone's cell phone and computer screen goes black...it will be deemed for our safety. I sure as hell won't be turning on my tv to hear what I'm told to do next like the rest of the sheep.
LOL@smh...just remember it's the bitterness and disgust who many of us have that's going to save your ass one day.
You don't have to save me because I'll be saving you. Don't get it twisted. I have military in my background so I don't have a problem taking motherfucker down.
LOL@Genuis, hardly, he's mad but not a Genuis.
As for Facebook, I don't have one, I don't have Google, I don't use Instagram never have never will use Instagram, not my thing.
What's sad is you walk around with we are all slaves and you don't know shit about being a slave, don't know what it looks like, what it smells like, what it feels like to be a slave, you're just talking out the side of your ass--the illegal aliens know more about being a slave than you do.
What are you slave to? Your habits, your routines, your thoughts, your fears, your xbox, starbucks, your mediocre bank account, you don't have a clue, you sounding more and more like a scary assclown by the day.
You don't have to save me because I'll be saving you. Don't get it twisted. I have military in my background so I don't have a problem taking motherfucker down.
LOL@Genuis, hardly, he's mad but not a Genuis.
As for Facebook, I don't have one, I don't have Google, I don't use Instagram never have never will use Instagram, not my thing.
What's sad is you walk around with we are all slaves and you don't know shit about being a slave, don't know what it looks like, what it smells like, what it feels like to be a slave, you're just talking out the side of your ass--the illegal aliens know more about being a slave than you do.
What are you slave to? Your habits, your routines, your thoughts, your fears, your xbox, starbucks, your mediocre bank account, you don't have a clue, you sounding more and more like a scary assclown by the day.
Posted by LetltBPosted by MrFirebird
Know your enemy. Know yourself - Sun Tsu
IF the NSA feels the need to spy on American citizens, then it is because the American citizen is viewed
as the enemy of the NSA. It doesn't matter who is being monitored. Assume that ALL are being monitored.
Just remember that these things are all part of a much larger picture. One piece of a giant puzzle. A pawn,
among many, on the strategic grand chess board of clandestine metageopolitical power.
They have all the money. They have all the power. What they are aiming for is global dominance. Global Control..... in and of all things.
That is their ultimate orgasm. And it originates in the spirit world.
+1 we are allll slaves, the illegal aliens they dump off by the bus loads assists as camouflage.
..hope you are well, good to see you. 🙂click to expand
Doin' ok. Same old, same old. Thank you and hope all is well your way and it's good to see you too. 🙂
PS, I am trying my darnedest to stay out of trouble.
Posted by LetltBPosted by Scorp73
On the other hand, I still am not worried about the NSA spying on me personally. Like I said, there are redacted versions of USSID 18 all over the internet. There is also a plethora of information about FISA courts, and the warrants they issue. They're black and white about these things.
I'm not worried either. The point here is WHAT do you really believe it's being used for?
When everyone's cell phone and computer screen goes black...it will be deemed for our safety. I sure as hell won't be turning on my tv to hear what I'm told to do next like the rest of the sheep.
click to expand
I don't believe it's being used at all. You can't just collect signals from the bad guys. It doesn't work that way. Ever have your radio tuned to a station, only to have another one bleed in over the top of it? Same thing. Are they recording within the US? Probably, but not significantly. I'm sure whatever is received is recorded, but if you're a law abiding citizen, they can't legally do anything with it. Like I said, check out USSID 18 and FISA courts. This stuff is pretty black and white.
Posted by tiki33
LOL@smh...just remember it's the bitterness and disgust who many of us have that's going to save your ass one day.
You don't have to save me because I'll be saving you. Don't get it twisted. I have military in my background so I don't have a problem taking motherfucker down.
LOL@Genuis, hardly, he's mad but not a Genuis.
As for Facebook, I don't have one, I don't have Google, I don't use Instagram never have never will use Instagram, not my thing.
What's sad is you walk around with we are all slaves and you don't know shit about being a slave, don't know what it looks like, what it smells like, what it feels like to be a slave, you're just talking out the side of your ass--the illegal aliens know more about being a slave than you do.
What are you slave to? Your habits, your routines, your thoughts, your fears, your xbox, starbucks, your mediocre bank account, you don't have a clue, you sounding more and more like a scary assclown by the day.
OK tiki...if you can't keep the discussion to facts, you are on your own, not to mention haven't provided any. You sound very bitter and it's clearly taken you off the subject at hand. The word slave has a multitude of meaning in regard to this topic, you got lost in it somewhere. Not my problem at all.
Posted by Scorp73
I don't believe it's being used at all. You can't just collect signals from the bad guys. It doesn't work that way. Ever have your radio tuned to a station, only to have another one bleed in over the top of it? Same thing. Are they recording within the US? Probably, but not significantly. I'm sure whatever is received is recorded, but if you're a law abiding citizen, they can't legally do anything with it. Like I said, check out USSID 18 and FISA courts. This stuff is pretty black and white.
I looked that up a couple of times...I keep getting negative feedback on it.
Fisa court documents reveal extent of NSA disregard for privacy restrictions
Incensed Fisa court judges questioned NSA's truthfulness after repeated breaches of rules meant to protect Americans' privacy
Newly declassified court documents indicate that the National Security Agency shared its trove of American bulk email and internet data with other government agencies in violation of specific court-ordered procedures to protect Americans?? privacy.
The dissemination of the sensitive data transgressed both the NSA??s affirmations to the secret surveillance court about the extent of the access it provided, and prompted incensed Fisa court judges to question both the NSA??s truthfulness and the value of the now-cancelled program to counter-terrorism.
While the NSA over the past several months has portrayed its previous violations of Fisa court orders as —technical?? violations or inadvertent errors, the oversharing of internet data is described in the documents as apparent widespread and unexplained procedural violations.
—NSA??s record of compliance with these rules has been poor,?? wrote judge John Bates in an opinion released on Monday night in which the date is redacted.
—Most notably, NSA generally disregarded the special rules for disseminating United States person information outside of NSA until it was ordered to report such disseminations and to certify to the [Fisa court] that the required approval had been obtained.??
There's a lot more...http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/19/fisa-court-documents-nsa-violations-privacy
Posted by MontgomeryPosted by MrFirebird
Know your enemy. Know yourself - Sun Tsu
IF the NSA feels the need to spy on American citizens, then it is because the American citizen is viewed
as the enemy of the NSA. It doesn't matter who is being monitored. Assume that ALL are being monitored.
Just remember that these things are all part of a much larger picture. One piece of a giant puzzle. A pawn,
among many, on the strategic grand chess board of clandestine metageopolitical power.
They have all the money. They have all the power. What they are aiming for is global dominance. Global Control..... in and of all things.
That is their ultimate orgasm. And it originates in the spirit world.
Everything does.
+1
click to expand
ohh maybe Snowden is "infiltrating" and this is all a set-up? Anything is possible. Know what they say: Closer to your enemies.
Posted by Scorp73
I don't believe it's being used at all. You can't just collect signals from the bad guys. It doesn't work that way. Ever have your radio tuned to a station, only to have another one bleed in over the top of it? Same thing. Are they recording within the US? Probably, but not significantly. I'm sure whatever is received is recorded, but if you're a law abiding citizen, they can't legally do anything with it. Like I said, check out USSID 18 and FISA courts. This stuff is pretty black and white.
I believe the issue was that the gov't was flouting those very laws--
"Newly declassified court documents indicate that the National Security Agency shared its trove of American bulk email
and internet data with other government agencies in violation of specific court-ordered procedures to protect Americans?? privacy....
—NSA??s record of compliance with these rules has been poor,?? wrote judge John Bates in an opinion released on
Monday night in which the date is redacted. "
"Elizabeth Goitien of the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University said that the declassified
opinions raise disturbing questions about the NSA??s truthfulness.
—Either the NSA is really trying to comply with the court's orders and is absolutely incapable of doing so,
in which case it's terrifying that they??re performing this surveillance, or they??re not really trying to comply,?? Goitien said.
—Neither of those explanations is particularly comforting.??
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/19/fisa-court-documents-nsa-violations-privacy
Posted by LetltB
There's a lot more...http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/19/fisa-court-documents-nsa-violations-privacy
😐
I really need to be quicker on the draw.
.........................................................
2 months prior to this ^
"In 2009, [Judge] Walton questioned whether the program could be allowed to continue, asking if "the value of the program
to the nation's security justifies the continued collection and retention of massive quantities of US person information".
He considered the violations serious enough to order the authorities not to "access the data collected until
such a time as the government is able to restore the court's confidence that the government can and will comply with
previously approved procedures for accessing such data."
An internal government review launched in response to the order disclosed that in 2006, the NSA discovered one
of its partner agencies — its name is redacted — improperly included credit card numbers in its databases."
The beat goes on-- the laws are useless if they aren't observed.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/10/nsa-violated-court-rules-data-documents
Posted by Montgomery
The beat goes on-- the laws are useless if they aren't observed.
Pretty much it in a nutshell.
I'm hoping that whatever else Snowden/Greenwald have up their sleeve to expose, it's just as black and white.
Personal question to Scorp73:
If (big if) shit hits the fan, meaning the people are shown some very relevant information where a nationwide uprising ocurs toward Homeland Security, Government etc... who are found to be committing treason in this country, what side will you be on? ..and how does that work for those active in the military? You (they) answer to our government, and it's the only reason I ask, yet also realize no response might be in your best interest. Valid question though.
If (big if) shit hits the fan, meaning the people are shown some very relevant information where a nationwide uprising ocurs toward Homeland Security, Government etc... who are found to be committing treason in this country, what side will you be on? ..and how does that work for those active in the military? You (they) answer to our government, and it's the only reason I ask, yet also realize no response might be in your best interest. Valid question though.
Posted by LetltB
Personal question to Scorp73:
If (big if) shit hits the fan, meaning the people are shown some very relevant information where a nationwide uprising ocurs toward Homeland Security, Government etc... who are found to be committing treason in this country, what side will you be on? ..and how does that work for those active in the military? You (they) answer to our government, and it's the only reason I ask, yet also realize no response might be in your best interest. Valid question though.
I'm a veteran now, so I'm only bound by the requirements of my former security clearance. I shouldn't even be pseudo showing it off here to be honest, but my intentions were to alleviate anxiety created by Snowden rather than show off. To be honest, that's a fair, but pretty ambiguous question. If we're slipping into some hardcore "Handmaid's Tail" theocracy, I'd gladly fight against them. If people are claiming we're falling into communism/socialism/fascism because Obama's coming to take your gun, I'd probably ignore it or reenlist to fight against whomever was uprising.
To take it a step further, I haven't even really read up closely on Snowden. His actions strike me as narcissistic - if I had seen something in the military that I was morally opposed to, I wouldn't have run to Russia to fight it. If people are truly concerned, I'd recommend watching the German movie, "The Lives of Others." It would take that level of surveillance to truly concern me. That simply isn't the case in the U.S. If they're receiving e-mail, it's likely Yahoo, GMail, or what not and then they have to sort through it. Mind you, there's a nuance here that should not be overlooked. Collecting does not equal targeting. There's a world of difference.
Posted by LetltBPosted by Scorp73
I looked that up a couple of times...I keep getting negative feedback on it.
click to expand
Long story short: USSID 18 is an extension of the 4th and 5th Amendments. FISA Courts are responsible to issuing warrants to purposely monitor U.S. citizens. It used to be that they could monitor an American for 3 days. If nothing illegal was determined in those 3 days, they needed a warrant to continue monitoring. Bush changed that to 6 months. I'm disappointed that it hasn't be re-reduced.
Posted by TwirlingStrawberry
here's a thought....
Interesting you say that.
I'm having a hard time finding anything that isn't put out by the "major" news outlets on this guy.
Soo I have a (major) problem with the sources.
But I did a bit of hunting and I found this, from when the story first broke-- can't quote it all, but...
"What good is all this monitoring, if they can't even find one of their leakers?
They've been looking for [Snowden] since May. The CIA has not been able to find him.
He finally said. "I'm here, I'm out here in a motel room, I'm getting room service.
I'm here in Hong Kong."
I mean, the CIA station is right up the road.
"Come get me. I'm worried that you are. I'm really worried you're gonna come get me. I'm in Hong Kong."
Noted bastion of freedom, by the way.
I think it's a good question.
They've been after Snowden, the CIA, since back in May -- I guess about a month they've been looking for him.
My question is, what good is all this monitoring if they can't even trace one of their leakers?
Inside the "Q Group", the Directorate Hunting Down Edward Snowden, from the article, "The top secret 'Q Group' has been chasing
Edward Snowden since he disappeared in May.
The people who began chasing Snowden worked for the associate director for security and counterintelligence
according to former US intelligence officers who spoke on condition of anonymity."
The "Q Group" is the NSA's internal police force, in effect.
That's what the "Q Group" is, they their own cop force there and be they've been looking for the guy for a month.
I'm sorry. I don't mean to laugh. I know it's our nation's security here.
If what? Well, if he were Tea Party, would they have found him the next day?
What you're saying is that they let him slide?"
~
That's from a Rush Limbaugh transcript about a year ago.
Still reading, but yeah-- very interesting point, Elle.
Posted by TwirlingStrawberry
here's a thought....
what if Snowden isn't even "real". what if he's just a puppet/actor/pharse etc......
what if he's being used as just a tool to perpetuate fear?
sort of like the Boston bombings when they did an all out martial law drill....just to make us think that could quite possibly happen in our own backyards.
it all seems strange to me that Russia is allowing him refuge (would have to be for a price, right? it's not like they did out of hospitality for Americans)....and then NBC can walk right in and interview him, hop on the plane and go home.
This entire thing could be contrived and a media illusion.
My boss made a good point today...he watched the interview over the weekend.
His words......
Nothing Snowden said was hard fact or evidence, it was mostly philosophical, at best. We know the risks in today's technology and with that said, the only alternative is to turn everything off...which isn't going to happen. It's either on and you run the risk....or it's off and you put it away. There is no way someone has that much power. Technology really isn't that simple.
hmmm very interesting you brought that up, because over the weekend while researching that crossed my mind. But then...I got stuck at Glenn Greenwald. What role would he play in this? He now resides in Brazil. Two people who came together (at the request of Snowden), Greenwald thought initially Snowden was a hoax until he was shown the documents and confirmed other sources. Would Greenwald be on the possible fear mongering too? WTF knows... I'm not afraid at all, I want to know that is all.
Open government? pfft..yea ok. I'll leave 1% of the "here's a thought", the other 99% not so much.
Posted by Scorp73Posted by LetltB
Personal question to Scorp73:
If (big if) shit hits the fan, meaning the people are shown some very relevant information where a nationwide uprising ocurs toward Homeland Security, Government etc... who are found to be committing treason in this country, what side will you be on? ..and how does that work for those active in the military? You (they) answer to our government, and it's the only reason I ask, yet also realize no response might be in your best interest. Valid question though.
I'm a veteran now, so I'm only bound by the requirements of my former security clearance. I shouldn't even be pseudo showing it off here to be honest, but my intentions were to alleviate anxiety created by Snowden rather than show off. To be honest, that's a fair, but pretty ambiguous question. If we're slipping into some hardcore "Handmaid's Tail" theocracy, I'd gladly fight against them. If people are claiming we're falling into communism/socialism/fascism because Obama's coming to take your gun, I'd probably ignore it or reenlist to fight against whomever was uprising.
To take it a step further, I haven't even really read up closely on Snowden. His actions strike me as narcissistic - if I had seen something in the military that I was morally opposed to, I wouldn't have run to Russia to fight it..click to expand
Thanks for your response on that. Regarding "claims" people might make ..I wouldn't be naive enough to fight on a claim, it has to be PROVEN, so I'm neutral there. Better to save the physical and mental energy for the real stuff that is shown in black and white and worth fighting for.
You're not the first person to call Snowden's actions as "narcissistic"... I don't see that at all. In fact what I do see is him holding up a mirror to the beaurocratic bastards who are narcisissts with a really big ass Ace up his sleeve that hasn't been exposed just yet.. The Ace that says "now I have you by the balls" kind of Ace. Making him, of course, appear narcissistic. I've seen that grin before..and it speaks volumes. Then you have Greewald who released the first book "No Place to Hide" already talking about "details" to the follow up of that book..
One step deeper into my mind here...lol...the title of that book, "No Place to Hide" which by the wa
~sorry..got cut off~
One step deeper into my mind here...lol...the title of that book, "No Place to Hide" which by the way I don't see as it insinuating Snowden has no place to hide, but maybe could actually be those who are about to be exposed..it's subliminal perhaps..and again who knows? The way I see it, if Snowden was hiding, the world wouldn't know where he is.
Anyway, thanks again for answering, I respect you for doing so and it has some reassurance value for me anyway. 🙂
One step deeper into my mind here...lol...the title of that book, "No Place to Hide" which by the way I don't see as it insinuating Snowden has no place to hide, but maybe could actually be those who are about to be exposed..it's subliminal perhaps..and again who knows? The way I see it, if Snowden was hiding, the world wouldn't know where he is.
Anyway, thanks again for answering, I respect you for doing so and it has some reassurance value for me anyway. 🙂
Posted by LetltB
But then...I got stuck at Glenn Greenwald. What role would he play in this?
Glenn Greenwald is hard left-- and he definitely has his own agenda.
"That so many terms and concepts are debatable hardly confirms Greenwald's case that terrorism experts are engaged
in an ongoing sinister or craven effort to legitimize Western violence....
No doubt terrorism is a problematic subject of inquiry, but it is still a subject of inquiry (many so-called terrorism
experts in fact identify themselves as, say, political scientists or historians that specialize in terrorism, rather
than disciples of "terrorism studies" per se), and those who study it extensively may offer insights others do not grasp.
Most bizarre, Greenwald assigns ill motives where honest disagreement might suffice...
Greenwald asserts it is anti-intellectual to put questioning motive off limits.
Fair enough.
So too is it to wantonly assert that an analyst's motive is profit-based or deliberately misleading without any proof whatsoever..."
So is the other reporter, Laura Poitras.
"Greenwald's sometimes-partner Laura Poitras's history is even more disturbing and involves her being put on a government terror
watch list after she was accused of having foreknowledge of an attack on U.S. soldiers in Iraq and doing nothing to give them warning.
Greenwald has written sympathetically about how Poitras has been detained at the border, but failed to explain what
she had been accused of that led to such treatment.
The story has been covered by The Weekly Standard:
During a patrol of Adhamiya early in the morning of November 20, two soldiers in (leader Brandon) Ditto's platoon
noticed a woman standing on a rooftop next to a man while holding a camera.
They found that very odd.
"Usually when you see someone planted on a rooftop with a camera, they're waiting for something, and right after that
is when we got ambushed just down the road," Ditto told me Tuesday night.
"So it seems that she had pre-knowledge that our convoy, or our patrol, was going to get hit."
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/08/16/what_s_glenn_greenwald_s_problem?wp_id_n=813571997link
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/06/24/Snowden-Timeline-Revealed
😏
CNN) -- The federal government has concluded there's a new leaker exposing national security documents in the aftermath of surveillance disclosures by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden, U.S. officials tell CNN.
Proof of the newest leak comes from national security documents that formed the basis of a news story published Tuesday by the Intercept, the news site launched by Glenn Greenwald, who also published Snowden's leaks.
NSA leaker Edward Snowden asks to extend Russia asylum
The Intercept article focuses on the growth in U.S. government databases of known or suspected terrorist names during the Obama administration.
The article cites documents prepared by the National Counterterrorism Center dated August 2013, which is after Snowden flew to Russia to avoid U.S. criminal charges.
Greenwald has suggested there was another leaker. In July, he said on Twitter "it seems clear at this point" that there was another. Government officials have been investigating to find out who.
In a February interview with CNN's Reliable Sources, Greenwald said: "I definitely think it's fair to say that there are people who have been inspired by Edward Snowden's courage and by the great good and virtue that it has achieved."
He added, "I have no doubt there will be other sources inside the government who see extreme wrongdoing who are inspired by Edward Snowden."
CNN) -- The federal government has concluded there's a new leaker exposing national security documents in the aftermath of surveillance disclosures by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden, U.S. officials tell CNN.
Proof of the newest leak comes from national security documents that formed the basis of a news story published Tuesday by the Intercept, the news site launched by Glenn Greenwald, who also published Snowden's leaks.
NSA leaker Edward Snowden asks to extend Russia asylum
The Intercept article focuses on the growth in U.S. government databases of known or suspected terrorist names during the Obama administration.
The article cites documents prepared by the National Counterterrorism Center dated August 2013, which is after Snowden flew to Russia to avoid U.S. criminal charges.
Greenwald has suggested there was another leaker. In July, he said on Twitter "it seems clear at this point" that there was another. Government officials have been investigating to find out who.
In a February interview with CNN's Reliable Sources, Greenwald said: "I definitely think it's fair to say that there are people who have been inspired by Edward Snowden's courage and by the great good and virtue that it has achieved."
He added, "I have no doubt there will be other sources inside the government who see extreme wrongdoing who are inspired by Edward Snowden."
Big databases
The biggest database, called the Terrorist Identities Datamart Environment, now has 1 million names, a U.S. official confirmed to CNN.
That's boosted from half that many in the aftermath of the botched attempt by the so-called underwear bomber to blow up a U.S.-bound jetliner on Christmas Day in 2009.
The growth of TIDE, and other more specialized terrorist databases and watchlists, was a result of vulnerabilities exposed in the 2009 underwear plot, government officials said.
A year after Snowden
The underwear bomber, Umar Farouk Abdulmuttalab, was not on government watchlists that would have prevented him from being allowed to fly to the United States.
In 2012, the National Counterterrorism Center reported that the TIDE database contained 875,000 names. There were about 500,000 in 2009 before the underwear bomb plot.
The Intercept first reported the new TIDE database numbers, along with details of other databases.
The biggest database, called the Terrorist Identities Datamart Environment, now has 1 million names, a U.S. official confirmed to CNN.
That's boosted from half that many in the aftermath of the botched attempt by the so-called underwear bomber to blow up a U.S.-bound jetliner on Christmas Day in 2009.
The growth of TIDE, and other more specialized terrorist databases and watchlists, was a result of vulnerabilities exposed in the 2009 underwear plot, government officials said.
A year after Snowden
The underwear bomber, Umar Farouk Abdulmuttalab, was not on government watchlists that would have prevented him from being allowed to fly to the United States.
In 2012, the National Counterterrorism Center reported that the TIDE database contained 875,000 names. There were about 500,000 in 2009 before the underwear bomb plot.
The Intercept first reported the new TIDE database numbers, along with details of other databases.
The Intercept article (https://firstlook.org/theintercept/article/2014/08/05/watch-commander/)
As of November, 2013, there were 700,000 people listed in the Terrorist Screening Database (TSDB), or the "Terrorist Watchlist, according to a U.S. official. Fewer than 1% are U.S. persons and fewer than 0.5% are U.S. citizens.
The list has grown somewhat since that time, but is nowhere near the 1.5 million figure cited in recent news reports. Current numbers for the TSDB cannot be released at this time.
The Intercept report said, citing the documents, that 40% on the "Terrorist Watchlist" aren't affiliated with terror groups.
U.S. officials familiar with the matter say the claim is incorrect based on a misreading of the documents.
Americans on lists
The report said that as of August, 2013, 5,000 Americans were on the TSD watchlist. Another 15,800 were on the wider TIDE list.
A smaller subset, 16,000 names, including 1,200 belonging to Americans, are listed as "selectees" who are subject to more intensive screening at airports and border crossings.
According to the Intercept, citing the documents, the cities with the most names on the list are: New York, Dearborn, Michigan; Houston; San Diego; and Chicago. Dearborn is home to one the nation's biggest concentrations of Arab and Muslim populations.
According to the documents cited by the Intercept, the government has also begun a new effort to collect information and biometric data on U.S. persons in the aftermath of the 2013 Boston Marathon bombings.
The data includes photos from driver's licenses. That effort likely was spurred by the fact that FBI agents investigating the Boston bombings found existing databases lacking when they tried to match images of the two bombers isolated from surveillance video, according to U.S. officials familiar with the matter.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/05/politics/u-s-new-leaker/
As of November, 2013, there were 700,000 people listed in the Terrorist Screening Database (TSDB), or the "Terrorist Watchlist, according to a U.S. official. Fewer than 1% are U.S. persons and fewer than 0.5% are U.S. citizens.
The list has grown somewhat since that time, but is nowhere near the 1.5 million figure cited in recent news reports. Current numbers for the TSDB cannot be released at this time.
The Intercept report said, citing the documents, that 40% on the "Terrorist Watchlist" aren't affiliated with terror groups.
U.S. officials familiar with the matter say the claim is incorrect based on a misreading of the documents.
Americans on lists
The report said that as of August, 2013, 5,000 Americans were on the TSD watchlist. Another 15,800 were on the wider TIDE list.
A smaller subset, 16,000 names, including 1,200 belonging to Americans, are listed as "selectees" who are subject to more intensive screening at airports and border crossings.
According to the Intercept, citing the documents, the cities with the most names on the list are: New York, Dearborn, Michigan; Houston; San Diego; and Chicago. Dearborn is home to one the nation's biggest concentrations of Arab and Muslim populations.
According to the documents cited by the Intercept, the government has also begun a new effort to collect information and biometric data on U.S. persons in the aftermath of the 2013 Boston Marathon bombings.
The data includes photos from driver's licenses. That effort likely was spurred by the fact that FBI agents investigating the Boston bombings found existing databases lacking when they tried to match images of the two bombers isolated from surveillance video, according to U.S. officials familiar with the matter.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/05/politics/u-s-new-leaker/
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