Montgomery
@Montgomery
12 Years10,000+ Posts
Comments: 552 · Posts: 18848 · Topics: 149
#PATRIOT (Page 2)
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Posted by SteveWPosted by lisabethur8
all those photos of other countries going for snowden are just a small part of the population. lol
it's kind of weird but i do notice that european countries put down the U.S. alot, in terms of their government, yet when it comes to their own countries, they are patriotic as hell for the most part.
A lot of Europe is ignorant to how our political system works. Their anti-American sentiments are fueled by their ignorance.
click to expand
Alot of Europeans...yes. They are. But the ones higher up, the educated ones, usually understand how it works.
It was Paul Verhoeven (european) who wrote /directed that film, "Starship Troopers" years ago, in an attempt to show how ridiculous American(s) in their military are. (black satire perhaps?) It was received with mixed reviews. Many liked it and many didn't.
But, many in Europe support you guys alot. So, if anything happens, many Europeans have your back.
Posted by SteveWPosted by IrresistableScorp
Anti-Americanism is a sport in Europe. It was insufferable while I lived there for ten years. So much ignorance.
Europeans always pride themselves on being open minded and compassionate but some of the bile I had to swallow when talking to European friends was ridiculous. And these were well-educated people. Its a national past-time.
I agree. Some of them come here and they are spewing it and I put them in their place real quick. Can't stand when people think they are better than others yet are not educated/sophisticated.click to expand
Naw sorry but, the disdain is to everyone else in Europe too. French hate the British, the British hate the French, the British hate the Irish, so forth ect. Even Belgium hates eachother because they're so divided with the french south and the flemish north. well not that extreme. People make fun of the Belgium King because he's a coward, and young men go to Spain to find all the Spanish hookers to get laid cheap. And most everyone is looking down their noses at Greece's shady dealings, because people were actually siphoning off free government retirement money off of dead grandparents -- all pretending they still lived so they could get free checks monthly.
Posted by SteveWPosted by lisabethur8
all those photos of other countries going for snowden are just a small part of the population. lol
And you know this by? How? Some pictures I posted? It was just to show how he has influenced the world and his notoriety in those countries. It wasn't to make assumptions about whole countries and their people.
The one for China had 3 people in it that I posted. Their government is accusing our government of spying on them.click to expand
well, I do live in Europe and no one really cares about Snowden around where i am or even in parts of UK either where i have some family. Or in Switzerland & Finland. Oh i understand it wasn't about making assumptions about the whole.
Posted by IrresistableScorpPosted by SteveW
I don't care what they are doing in their lives and their disputes with each other. I don't like their ignorance -- their ignorance would be tolerable if they were not so snobbery about it. When they are snobbery it makes it even more funnier for me to crack jokes at them.
Its not snobbery. I say this with the utmost respect: its jealousy. Every European I combatted with admitted the same thing.
Do you know how expensive Europe is? People work their asses off and still have to take a loan out for a two week vacation every year. Everyone is living on the edge of their income. The taxes are ridiculous. Not kidding. They are prohibitive. The health system is good but its not free. It costs money out of your paycheck every week. think social security on steroids. However what you get is the equivalent of our medicare system--long lines, wait times for important shit, going back to fight for a better treatment. You get the basics very well. the higher end things--meh--not as good.
The unfortunate thing? I went to Europe in 1998 and stayed until 2008. When I left, the cost of living in the US was really good. When I came back--not so great. So...click to expand
No, it depends, IS. Even waiters in France get at least 1-2 month vacation with pay and medical benefits. I heard U.S. doesn't even give their waiters that long of a vacation and medical insurance. The taxes are high though. If you're educated here, one usually get paid very well. The food is cheap, to be honest and it's good food.
Posted by IrresistableScorpPosted by lisabethur8Posted by IrresistableScorpPosted by SteveW
I don't care what they are doing in their lives and their disputes with each other. I don't like their ignorance -- their ignorance would be tolerable if they were not so snobbery about it. When they are snobbery it makes it even more funnier for me to crack jokes at them.
Its not snobbery. I say this with the utmost respect: its jealousy. Every European I combatted with admitted the same thing.
Do you know how expensive Europe is? People work their asses off and still have to take a loan out for a two week vacation every year. Everyone is living on the edge of their income. The taxes are ridiculous. Not kidding. They are prohibitive. The health system is good but its not free. It costs money out of your paycheck every week. think social security on steroids. However what you get is the equivalent of our medicare system--long lines, wait times for important shit, going back to fight for a better treatment. You get the basics very well. the higher end things--meh--not as good.
The unfortunate thing? I went to Europe in 1998 and stayed until 2008. When I left, the cost of living in the US was really good. When I came back--not so great. So...
No, it depends, IS. Even waiters in France get at least 1-2 month vacation with pay and medical benefits. I heard U.S. doesn't even give their waiters that long of a vacation and medical insurance. The taxes are high though. If you're educated here, one usually get paid very well. The food is cheap, to be honest and it's good food.
Hmm??_not sure about the cheap food TBH. My grocery bills average about 200 EU per week??_.
Well having lived in london for a considerable time, the wages were very good. But honestly I had friends making 200K/yr taking loans out to pay for vacations. the real estate is uber expensive pretty much wherever you go.click to expand
I honestly can manage 200 in 2 weeks, NOT one week and we don't skimp on fresh vegetables and fruits and 3 meals per day. Although breakfast is small, compared to the Denny's breakfast grand slam we
saw over there. Taking out loans is ridiculous just for vacations. My husband has his company give them vacation pay yearly. The economy sucked over the last 2 years though, so they did take out the 1000 per year clothing expense. Yes, they even have clothing expenses companies give out to each employee. But it depends on the company you're employed in.
Posted by IrresistableScorpPosted by Juicysbaby214
Hey pup!
Juicy Fruit??_are coming to join the convo?click to expand
WTF happened to my thread? Go start another hen cackle thread somewhere else IS. Jesus. I don't give a rats ass about what Europe or any country thinks of America. This thread is about PATRIOTISM in America. Now gtfo.
Posted by TwirlingStrawberry
Does anyone realise that all those pictures have been photoshopped?
smh
From an expert who knows deception...
Posted by geminicandIe
I agree. No matter what you do or who you are, it's simply not good enough.
And I am from Europe, lol!
I am not sure why such deep-seated hate of Euros toward Americanism.
It is like deep seated contempt.
Why does anyone feel contempt for people they don't know?
Usually because it makes them feel better about themselves. 😉
"I found it.
"At his meeting with human rights groups and others on 12 July, Snowden said he was claiming asylum in Russia, with a view to staying there temporarily before claiming asylum in a Latin American country.
He said he had received offers from Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua and Ecuador."
Not too appealing, I guess"
And he chose Russia and for me that was suspect.
"He went to Russia because the US is the new USSR. People are defecting FROM us not TO us. We aren't a free country anymore. Only reason we don't have complete censorship YET is because the people aren't ready to accept that. More brainwashing time is needed. Meanwhile--ridiculing and ostracizing the free thinkers is working just fine--for the moment."
LOL@the new USSR. Get real. Have you seen the percentage of defectors in the US from Russia. The percentage of foreign works, foreign refugees/asylum seekers is very high. You can get up and fly to another country and never come back--you have the right to do that, you can give up your citizenship freely, you have the right to do that, none of us have to defect. You don't have to beg and beg for a passport and answer a million questions in order to get a passport, it's freely given.
The US is the land of plenty and free for a lot of people or they wouldn't come here. We are much more free than many countries. You're a woman, go live in a country for example parts of India where there are honor killings, rape where there is no justice in sight, nobody cares and the perps get away with this daily. Go live in a country where the women live in perpetual fear every day, they can't walk alone, they can't be alone and if they are they're being accused. Go live in a country were you will be killed for just being a woman and you say were not free---we may not be free on your terms but generally speaking we have more rights and freedoms than a lot of other countries.
Truth be told I love free thinkers, I'm very interested in conspiracy theorist and truth but what I do have a problem with is anti-american's that pretend to love America, squawk on and on about not having freedom but partake in the freedoms granted to us all, I have an issue with Americans that hate our country and go about attempting to bring our country down, yeah I have an issue with that.
"At his meeting with human rights groups and others on 12 July, Snowden said he was claiming asylum in Russia, with a view to staying there temporarily before claiming asylum in a Latin American country.
He said he had received offers from Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua and Ecuador."
Not too appealing, I guess"
And he chose Russia and for me that was suspect.
"He went to Russia because the US is the new USSR. People are defecting FROM us not TO us. We aren't a free country anymore. Only reason we don't have complete censorship YET is because the people aren't ready to accept that. More brainwashing time is needed. Meanwhile--ridiculing and ostracizing the free thinkers is working just fine--for the moment."
LOL@the new USSR. Get real. Have you seen the percentage of defectors in the US from Russia. The percentage of foreign works, foreign refugees/asylum seekers is very high. You can get up and fly to another country and never come back--you have the right to do that, you can give up your citizenship freely, you have the right to do that, none of us have to defect. You don't have to beg and beg for a passport and answer a million questions in order to get a passport, it's freely given.
The US is the land of plenty and free for a lot of people or they wouldn't come here. We are much more free than many countries. You're a woman, go live in a country for example parts of India where there are honor killings, rape where there is no justice in sight, nobody cares and the perps get away with this daily. Go live in a country where the women live in perpetual fear every day, they can't walk alone, they can't be alone and if they are they're being accused. Go live in a country were you will be killed for just being a woman and you say were not free---we may not be free on your terms but generally speaking we have more rights and freedoms than a lot of other countries.
Truth be told I love free thinkers, I'm very interested in conspiracy theorist and truth but what I do have a problem with is anti-american's that pretend to love America, squawk on and on about not having freedom but partake in the freedoms granted to us all, I have an issue with Americans that hate our country and go about attempting to bring our country down, yeah I have an issue with that.
"Russia is not an ally of the United States," Dimitri Simes, head of the Center for the National Interest, told CBSNews.com.
"The fact that Russia is not a friend of the United States, the fact that Russia doesn't have an extradition treaty with the United States, the fact that President Putin is not known to be close to President Obama, and the fact that President Putin is not known as somebody who can be pushed around, made Russia a logical place to consider," he said.
"Under international law, a legitimate request for political asylum under the Refugee Convention trumps a request for extradition," Falk said. "The murky area comes when the country requesting extradition claims the crime is not of a political nature, as the U.S. has done in the indictment."
Marjorie Cohn, a professor at Thomas Jefferson School of Law and former president of the National Lawyers Guild, argued that Russia might also find justifications in the Convention Against Torture, citing the treatment of another accused leaker, Pfc. Bradley Manning.
"Since Bradley Manning was subjected to torture by being held in solitary confinement for the first nine months of his confinement, Russia could conclude that Snowden might be subjected to the same fate, and deny extradition on that ground," Cohn wrote in an email to CBSNews.com.
Then there's double criminality. Under the doctrine, Simes noted, the act for which the extradition is sought must be recognized by both the demanding and requested countries.
"Stealing American secrets is not a crime in Russia."
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/for-edward-snowden-why-russia/
"The fact that Russia is not a friend of the United States, the fact that Russia doesn't have an extradition treaty with the United States, the fact that President Putin is not known to be close to President Obama, and the fact that President Putin is not known as somebody who can be pushed around, made Russia a logical place to consider," he said.
"Under international law, a legitimate request for political asylum under the Refugee Convention trumps a request for extradition," Falk said. "The murky area comes when the country requesting extradition claims the crime is not of a political nature, as the U.S. has done in the indictment."
Marjorie Cohn, a professor at Thomas Jefferson School of Law and former president of the National Lawyers Guild, argued that Russia might also find justifications in the Convention Against Torture, citing the treatment of another accused leaker, Pfc. Bradley Manning.
"Since Bradley Manning was subjected to torture by being held in solitary confinement for the first nine months of his confinement, Russia could conclude that Snowden might be subjected to the same fate, and deny extradition on that ground," Cohn wrote in an email to CBSNews.com.
Then there's double criminality. Under the doctrine, Simes noted, the act for which the extradition is sought must be recognized by both the demanding and requested countries.
"Stealing American secrets is not a crime in Russia."
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/for-edward-snowden-why-russia/
PLEASE NOTE THE: ""Stealing American secrets is not a crime in Russia." quote IS what our government is trying to accuse snowden of...however, it's interesting how it was quoted.
...and this one from TIME: (consistent and logical again...)
"When the pilot announced his plane's descent toward Moscow on Sunday, whistle-blower Edward Snowden, one of the most wanted men in the U.S., would have had reason to be both nervous and relieved. There are not many countries left on the planet where he can safely set foot since he leaked a trove of secrets from the National Security Agency in the past weeks. But at least as a transit point, Russia was likely a reliable bet. It has no extradition treaty with Washington, and Snowden would not be the first Western whistle-blower to get a bit of help in Russia."
http://world.time.com/2013/06/23/russian-hospitality-why-snowden-picked-moscow-as-his-transit-point/
"When the pilot announced his plane's descent toward Moscow on Sunday, whistle-blower Edward Snowden, one of the most wanted men in the U.S., would have had reason to be both nervous and relieved. There are not many countries left on the planet where he can safely set foot since he leaked a trove of secrets from the National Security Agency in the past weeks. But at least as a transit point, Russia was likely a reliable bet. It has no extradition treaty with Washington, and Snowden would not be the first Western whistle-blower to get a bit of help in Russia."
http://world.time.com/2013/06/23/russian-hospitality-why-snowden-picked-moscow-as-his-transit-point/
@tiki
I don't disagree with you-- we do have it better than most of the world.
And I don't hate America (the current administration is another story).
BUT
It won't remain that way, if they continue to conduct business (use the term loosely) as they do now.
Maybe you didn't mean to quote me-- I think you swooped up a few quotes in there. 😛
The US is the land of plenty and free for a lot of people or they wouldn't come here. We are much more free than many countries. You're a woman, go live in a country for example parts of India where there are honor killings, rape where there is no justice in sight, nobody cares and the perps get away with this daily. Go live in a country where the women live in perpetual fear every day, they can't walk alone, they can't be alone and if they are they're being accused. Go live in a country were you will be killed for just being a woman and you say were not free---we may not be free on your terms but generally speaking we have more rights and freedoms than a lot of other countries.
Truth be told I love free thinkers, I'm very interested in conspiracy theorist and truth but what I do have a problem with is anti-american's that pretend to love America, squawk on and on about not having freedom but partake in the freedoms granted to us all, I have an issue with Americans that hate our country and go about attempting to bring our country down, yeah I have an issue with that.
I don't disagree with you-- we do have it better than most of the world.
And I don't hate America (the current administration is another story).
BUT
It won't remain that way, if they continue to conduct business (use the term loosely) as they do now.
Maybe you didn't mean to quote me-- I think you swooped up a few quotes in there. 😛
""Stealing American secrets is not a crime in Russia."
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/for-edward-snowden-why-russia"
I dare anyone to steal Russian secrets. DARE!! I don't believe for one second he/she wouldn't be up under the Siberian prison or dead.
There is no logical reason to go to Russia when he would have been protected in all the countries that were offering Snowden asylum. Assange isn't in Russia, nowhere near it and he has not been extradited.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/for-edward-snowden-why-russia"
I dare anyone to steal Russian secrets. DARE!! I don't believe for one second he/she wouldn't be up under the Siberian prison or dead.
There is no logical reason to go to Russia when he would have been protected in all the countries that were offering Snowden asylum. Assange isn't in Russia, nowhere near it and he has not been extradited.
Posted by SteveW
And back to the topic about China levying charges against the US government for spying..the American government should just admit to it and issue an apology rather than gloating in continuing the path they are.
LOL@admit to it...Yeah that'll happen when China admits to doing some spying of there own and hacking of their own, I doubt that'll happen.
Why is everyone so against America doing the very thing that other countries are doing. It doesn't make sense. Russia, China, Japan, Iran, Europe they all spy and they all hack one another including countless other countries, like what is the big fucking deal, most cities have camera's planted downtown, on the freeways, on the streets, what is the problem here.
"I don't disagree with you-- we do have it better than most of the world.
And I don't hate America (the current administration is another story).
BUT
It won't remain that way, if they continue to conduct business (use the term loosely) as they do now.
Maybe you didn't mean to quote me-- I think you swooped up a few quotes in there."
How do you know it won't remain that way. People have been saying it won't remain that way from before I was born and it's still that way. Don't under estimate the American people b/c as long as we're breathing we will always fight to maintain our basic right to be free.
I understand there are dark forces at play here so I'm not naive but these dark seen/unseen forces aren't anything new, they've always been here and probably always will be here.
And I don't hate America (the current administration is another story).
BUT
It won't remain that way, if they continue to conduct business (use the term loosely) as they do now.
Maybe you didn't mean to quote me-- I think you swooped up a few quotes in there."
How do you know it won't remain that way. People have been saying it won't remain that way from before I was born and it's still that way. Don't under estimate the American people b/c as long as we're breathing we will always fight to maintain our basic right to be free.
I understand there are dark forces at play here so I'm not naive but these dark seen/unseen forces aren't anything new, they've always been here and probably always will be here.
^ Plenty has changed for the worse in the US. I don't think people were being monitored like they are today. There weren't all these regulations and barriers to starting a business, there was no Obamacare or any attempt to require implanting RFID microchips in all citizens (there wasnt the tech before, but still, the idea of it).
Coasting on the CURRENT reality that at least our heads aren't being blown off like in other countries...it makes people complacent. And that's when things CAN drift that direction. It's not going to happen overnight. Deep-seated, major changes will be made very slowly and systematically. If cops went door to door tomorrow forcibly implanting RFID chips in everyone, there would be enormous riots and revolts.
And why should Americans be content with merely not having the worst police state? Why not strive for the what the Founding Fathers actually ENVISIONED for America?
Coasting on the CURRENT reality that at least our heads aren't being blown off like in other countries...it makes people complacent. And that's when things CAN drift that direction. It's not going to happen overnight. Deep-seated, major changes will be made very slowly and systematically. If cops went door to door tomorrow forcibly implanting RFID chips in everyone, there would be enormous riots and revolts.
And why should Americans be content with merely not having the worst police state? Why not strive for the what the Founding Fathers actually ENVISIONED for America?
Posted by tiki33Posted by SteveW
And back to the topic about China levying charges against the US government for spying..the American government should just admit to it and issue an apology rather than gloating in continuing the path they are.
LOL@admit to it...Yeah that'll happen when China admits to doing some spying of there own and hacking of their own, I doubt that'll happen.
Why is everyone so against America doing the very thing that other countries are doing. It doesn't make sense. Russia, China, Japan, Iran, Europe they all spy and they all hack one another including countless other countries, like what is the big fucking deal, most cities have camera's planted downtown, on the freeways, on the streets, what is the problem here.click to expand
Care to quote any part of the Constitution that says, "We shall do what everyone else does"?
Posted by tiki33Posted by Montgomery"I don't disagree with you-- we do have it better than most of the world.
And I don't hate America (the current administration is another story).
BUT
It won't remain that way, if they continue to conduct business (use the term loosely) as they do now.
Maybe you didn't mean to quote me-- I think you swooped up a few quotes in there."
How do you know it won't remain that way. People have been saying it won't remain that way from before I was born and it's still that way. Don't under estimate the American people b/c as long as we're breathing we will always fight to maintain our basic right to be free.
I understand there are dark forces at play here so I'm not naive but these dark seen/unseen forces aren't anything new, they've always been here and probably always will be here.click to expand
If you "understand there are dark forces at play here"-- then you also understand that if they have their way, the US will not be the best place in the world to live.
"Plenty has changed for the worse in the US. I don't think people were being monitored like they are today. There weren't all these regulations and barriers to starting a business, there was no Obamacare or any attempt to require implanting RFID microchips in all citizens (there wasnt the tech before, but still, the idea of it).
Coasting on the CURRENT reality that at least our heads aren't being blown off like in other countries...it makes people complacent. And that's when things CAN drift that direction. It's not going to happen overnight. Deep-seated, major changes will be made very slowly and systematically. If cops went door to door tomorrow forcibly implanting RFID chips in everyone, there would be enormous riots and revolts.
And why should Americans be content with merely not having the worst police state? Why not strive for the what the Founding Fathers actually ENVISIONED for America?""
Personally I don't have a problem with any of the monitoring, we are being monitored not just by the Government but by every camera planted on the streets. We don't find the bad guys through psychics, we find them by monitoring and having access to the right information.
This country has been policed for years and years, like what is the big fucking deal. RFID Chips were around way before Obama's Presidency. No regulations to start a business..Huh? What? Whew.
They don't have to force a RFID chip, they can put in our food, dentist can implant them, doctors can implant them, there already in our breast implants, they can put them in the water, nothing has to be forced...Like what is the deal with the hysteria. Nothing has to be done overtly, it all can be done covertly, hell you might have a chip in your ass as we speak, hell I might have one lol.
Don't get me wrong I do understand that history can repeat itself and we must be vigilant that history never repeats itself so I do get it but I am not going to have a problem with my country/government because so many people say we should. I don't like a lot of what goes on in Congress/Government but I love my country.
Coasting on the CURRENT reality that at least our heads aren't being blown off like in other countries...it makes people complacent. And that's when things CAN drift that direction. It's not going to happen overnight. Deep-seated, major changes will be made very slowly and systematically. If cops went door to door tomorrow forcibly implanting RFID chips in everyone, there would be enormous riots and revolts.
And why should Americans be content with merely not having the worst police state? Why not strive for the what the Founding Fathers actually ENVISIONED for America?""
Personally I don't have a problem with any of the monitoring, we are being monitored not just by the Government but by every camera planted on the streets. We don't find the bad guys through psychics, we find them by monitoring and having access to the right information.
This country has been policed for years and years, like what is the big fucking deal. RFID Chips were around way before Obama's Presidency. No regulations to start a business..Huh? What? Whew.
They don't have to force a RFID chip, they can put in our food, dentist can implant them, doctors can implant them, there already in our breast implants, they can put them in the water, nothing has to be forced...Like what is the deal with the hysteria. Nothing has to be done overtly, it all can be done covertly, hell you might have a chip in your ass as we speak, hell I might have one lol.
Don't get me wrong I do understand that history can repeat itself and we must be vigilant that history never repeats itself so I do get it but I am not going to have a problem with my country/government because so many people say we should. I don't like a lot of what goes on in Congress/Government but I love my country.
"Care to quote any part of the Constitution that says, "We shall do what everyone else does"?"
Care to quote where it says we shall never spy on our citizens.
"If you "understand there are dark forces at play here"-- then you also understand that if they have their way, the US will not be the best place in the world to live."
These forces have been around for generations, centuries, way before any of us were born. If they wanted to accomplish it they'd have accomplished it so just maybe none of us know the true agenda. The mass brainwashing about their end goal could be a distraction from the truth--the true agenda.
Care to quote where it says we shall never spy on our citizens.
"If you "understand there are dark forces at play here"-- then you also understand that if they have their way, the US will not be the best place in the world to live."
These forces have been around for generations, centuries, way before any of us were born. If they wanted to accomplish it they'd have accomplished it so just maybe none of us know the true agenda. The mass brainwashing about their end goal could be a distraction from the truth--the true agenda.
Posted by tiki33
"Care to quote any part of the Constitution that says, "We shall do what everyone else does"?"
Care to quote where it says we shall never spy on our citizens.
"If you "understand there are dark forces at play here"-- then you also understand that if they have their way, the US will not be the best place in the world to live."
These forces have been around for generations, centuries, way before any of us were born. If they wanted to accomplish it they'd have accomplished it so just maybe none of us know the true agenda. The mass brainwashing about their end goal could be a distraction from the truth--the true agenda.
There's an Amendment for that.
Particularly the 4th one.
""This country has been policed for years and years, like what is the big fucking deal."
oh nothing. nothing at all. just body bags, deaths, beatings, killings of innocent unarmed civilians... but nothing at all."
LOL!
Okay okay I'll keep it real, the body bags, beatings, killings of innocent unarmed civilians is happening every day It's been happening for many many years. 63 million people have died from HIV/AIDS and the number keeps growing, if they wanna take us out they'll do it and they don't necessarily need to round up mass collections of people to beat and kill, there are other ways to accomplish an agenda.
oh nothing. nothing at all. just body bags, deaths, beatings, killings of innocent unarmed civilians... but nothing at all."
LOL!
Okay okay I'll keep it real, the body bags, beatings, killings of innocent unarmed civilians is happening every day It's been happening for many many years. 63 million people have died from HIV/AIDS and the number keeps growing, if they wanna take us out they'll do it and they don't necessarily need to round up mass collections of people to beat and kill, there are other ways to accomplish an agenda.
The telephony metadata program does not violate the Fourth Amendment rights of telephone customers. By definition, the people cannot deem to be "unreasonable" what they do not know about. It is not unconstitutional to seize data and request a search of that data at a later time. If the surveillance is illegal then every camera unseen that collects data is breaking the law. I do not feel the Gov't did anything wrong but that's just me.
As for normal, no it's not normal but it's happening it's been happening. Want to take the Gov't down, good luck with that.
As for normal, no it's not normal but it's happening it's been happening. Want to take the Gov't down, good luck with that.
Posted by SteveW
I agree with Letitb and do not see how he is a traitor. He was a federal employee and all federal employees take an oath to defend the US Constitution. He did not betray our country now our citizens. Instead he took his oath seriously and informed the American people.
The US government is trying to charge him with espionage. He defended himself saying he is not a spy and has no ties with the Russian government. He is not supported by the Russian government.
#Maverick
#Patriot
Defense contractors do not take an oath to defend the Constitution, but they do take an oath to not reveal classified information.
Posted by SteveW
He worked for the CIA so he took the oath to defend the US Constitution.
I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.
He worked as a defense contractor for the NSA, and that's the Oath of Office for the Armed Forces. Defense contractors are not military members.
Posted by SteveWPosted by Scorp73Posted by SteveW
He worked for the CIA so he took the oath to defend the US Constitution.
I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.
He worked as a defense contractor for the NSA, and that's the Oath of Office for the Armed Forces. Defense contractors are not military members.
He worked for the CIA.click to expand
He worked for Booz Allen Hamilton as a contractor to the NSA at the time that he defected.
Posted by SteveW
In case you are really in Croatia.. once a federal employee, law officer, or military personnel takes the oath to defend the Constitution, they keep it.
I'm an American, and a Navy veteran, but that's beside the point. In case you you are really reading this, defense contractors don't take an oath to defend the Constitution. As I've already stated, the oath you quoted is the oath military officers take upon receiving their commission.
Here's the Classified Information Nondisclosure Agreement that he did sign.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/isoo/new_sf312.pdf
Posted by tiki33Posted by Montgomery
"If you "understand there are dark forces at play here"-- then you also understand that if they have their way, the US will not be the best place in the world to live."
These forces have been around for generations, centuries, way before any of us were born. If they wanted to accomplish it they'd have accomplished it so just maybe none of us know the true agenda. The mass brainwashing about their end goal could be a distraction from the truth--the true agenda.click to expand
Tiki
You're beginning to remind me of the people in the Road Warrior who just wanted to hand over the gas, so the mean people wouldn't hurt them.
Please expand on your thoughts regarding the "End Goal"-- I'm riveted.
*waits*
Posted by Scorp73
I'm an American, and a Navy veteran, but that's beside the point. In case you you are really reading this, defense contractors don't take an oath to defend the Constitution. As I've already stated, the oath you quoted is the oath military officers take upon receiving their commission.
Here's the Classified Information Nondisclosure Agreement that he did sign.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/isoo/new_sf312.pdf
First of all thank you for your service to America.
I did a shit ton of research/reading. I finally figured out quite possibly where this Snowden thing is going and if I'm correct, I couldn't be more pleased and realize WHY this guy hasn't been shot between the eyes or grabbed up by special forces... GREED..it always comes down to GREED. This can be really huge.
I realize and in defense of Snowden, (and thanks Scorp73 for providing the NDA he supposedly signed which came from the Booz Allen Hamilton Consultants HIRED by the United States Government. A 6 billion dollar consulting corporation btw. ("Booz Allen is in turn majority owned by the Carlyle Group, a giant US-based investment fund with $ 176bn in assets." http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/09/booz-allen-hamilton-edward-snowden)
Here's some info about Booz Allen Hamilton:
Booz Allen Hamilton Consultants from their own website: (linked below)
We focus in many arenas, including national and international security, economic well-being, health, environment, and public infrastructure. Our deep expertise in technology, engineering, and analytics helps us serve a broad constituency of clients, ranging from cabinet-level departments of the U.S. government to corporations, institutions, and organizations.
Booz Allen??s major clients include global corporations in the health, energy, and financial services sectors, as well as nearly all departments and agencies across the U.S. federal government.
http://www.boozallen.com/consultants
The government works for the politicians elected by the people, voted in by the people and the government hired this group who then in essence also works for the people of America. With that said...this multi billion dollar consulting group hired Edward Snowden. Edward Snowden signed (supposedly) the NDA provided by Booz Allen as provided by Scorp73:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/isoo/new_sf312.pdf (make sure you read that very carefully..)
Some of you are trying to say ^^^that supercedes our Constitution. Actually what supercedes ^^that is the Government Homeland Security Non-Disclosure Act WHO HIRED Booz Allen. The Homeland NDA is suppose to PROTECT Americans right? When they hired this consultant group EVERY SINGLE OWNER OF THAT GROUP by law had to sign the Homeland Security NDA.
Let's take a look at the specifics (and I'll provide a link for the full content) of the Homeland Security NDA. (then compare what Scorp73 provided the Corporate NDA vs. Homeland Security's NDA). Pretty damn relevant WHICH one supercedes...
http://www.fas.org/sgp/isoo/new_sf312.pdf (make sure you read that very carefully..)
Some of you are trying to say ^^^that supercedes our Constitution. Actually what supercedes ^^that is the Government Homeland Security Non-Disclosure Act WHO HIRED Booz Allen. The Homeland NDA is suppose to PROTECT Americans right? When they hired this consultant group EVERY SINGLE OWNER OF THAT GROUP by law had to sign the Homeland Security NDA.
Let's take a look at the specifics (and I'll provide a link for the full content) of the Homeland Security NDA. (then compare what Scorp73 provided the Corporate NDA vs. Homeland Security's NDA). Pretty damn relevant WHICH one supercedes...
DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY
NON-DISCLOSURE AGREEMENT
I, _______________________________________, an individual official, employee, consultant, or subcontractor of or to
_____________________ (the Authorized Entity), intending to be legally bound, hereby consent to the terms in this
Agreement in consideration of my being granted conditional access to certain information, specified below, that is owned
by, produced by, or in the possession of the United States Government.
If the Authorized Entity is a United States Government contractor performing services in support of the PCII Program, I
will not request, obtain, maintain, or use PCII unless the PCII Program Manager or Program Manager??s designee
has first made in writing, with respect to the contractor, the certification as provided for in Section 29.8(c) of the
implementing regulations to the CII Act, as amended.
4. I will not disclose or release any information provided to me pursuant to this Agreement without proper authority
or authorization. Should situations arise that warrant the disclosure or release of such information I will do so only under approved circumstances and in accordance with the laws, regulations, or directives applicable to the specific categories of information. I will honor and comply with any and all dissemination restrictions cited or verbally relayed to me by the proper authority.
7. I hereby agree that I shall promptly report to the appropriate official, in accordance with the guidance issued for the applicable category of information, any loss, theft, misuse, misplacement, unauthorized disclosure, or other security violation, I have knowledge of and whether or not I am personally involved. I also understand that my anonymity will be kept to the extent possible when reporting security violations.
http://rotor.com/portals/1/NDA.pdf
NON-DISCLOSURE AGREEMENT
I, _______________________________________, an individual official, employee, consultant, or subcontractor of or to
_____________________ (the Authorized Entity), intending to be legally bound, hereby consent to the terms in this
Agreement in consideration of my being granted conditional access to certain information, specified below, that is owned
by, produced by, or in the possession of the United States Government.
If the Authorized Entity is a United States Government contractor performing services in support of the PCII Program, I
will not request, obtain, maintain, or use PCII unless the PCII Program Manager or Program Manager??s designee
has first made in writing, with respect to the contractor, the certification as provided for in Section 29.8(c) of the
implementing regulations to the CII Act, as amended.
4. I will not disclose or release any information provided to me pursuant to this Agreement without proper authority
or authorization. Should situations arise that warrant the disclosure or release of such information I will do so only under approved circumstances and in accordance with the laws, regulations, or directives applicable to the specific categories of information. I will honor and comply with any and all dissemination restrictions cited or verbally relayed to me by the proper authority.
7. I hereby agree that I shall promptly report to the appropriate official, in accordance with the guidance issued for the applicable category of information, any loss, theft, misuse, misplacement, unauthorized disclosure, or other security violation, I have knowledge of and whether or not I am personally involved. I also understand that my anonymity will be kept to the extent possible when reporting security violations.
http://rotor.com/portals/1/NDA.pdf
This snippet: Most important is last paragraph bolded since the bottom line is truly all about GREED.
Booz Allen Hamilton, Edward Snowden's employer, is one of America's biggest security contractors and a significant part of the constantly revolving door between the US intelligence establishment and the private sector.
The current of director of national intelligence (DNI), James Clapper, who issued a stinging attack on the intelligence leaks this weekend, is a former Booz Allen executive. The firm's current vice-chairman, Mike McConnell, was DNI under the George W Bush administration. He worked for the Virginia-based company before taking the job, and returned to the firm after leaving it. The company website says McConnell is responsible for its "rapidly expanding cyber business".
James Woolsey, a former CIA director was also a Booz Allen vice-president, and Melissa Hathaway, another former company executive also once worked as the top aide on cybersecurity to McConnell when he was DNI. The company headquarters in the leafy Washington suburb of McLean in northern Virginia, close to CIA headquarters and home to former and current intelligence officers.
Snowden's decision to reveal his identity as a computer systems administrator for Booz Allen Hamilton, directly handling National Security Agency IT systems, raises significant image problems for the $ 6bn company and its 25,000-strong staff, which has traded on a bond of trust with sensitive clients, particularly the intelligence establishment.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/09/booz-allen-hamilton-edward-snowden
Booz Allen Hamilton, Edward Snowden's employer, is one of America's biggest security contractors and a significant part of the constantly revolving door between the US intelligence establishment and the private sector.
The current of director of national intelligence (DNI), James Clapper, who issued a stinging attack on the intelligence leaks this weekend, is a former Booz Allen executive. The firm's current vice-chairman, Mike McConnell, was DNI under the George W Bush administration. He worked for the Virginia-based company before taking the job, and returned to the firm after leaving it. The company website says McConnell is responsible for its "rapidly expanding cyber business".
James Woolsey, a former CIA director was also a Booz Allen vice-president, and Melissa Hathaway, another former company executive also once worked as the top aide on cybersecurity to McConnell when he was DNI. The company headquarters in the leafy Washington suburb of McLean in northern Virginia, close to CIA headquarters and home to former and current intelligence officers.
Snowden's decision to reveal his identity as a computer systems administrator for Booz Allen Hamilton, directly handling National Security Agency IT systems, raises significant image problems for the $ 6bn company and its 25,000-strong staff, which has traded on a bond of trust with sensitive clients, particularly the intelligence establishment.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/09/booz-allen-hamilton-edward-snowden
So we have our US government who hired a consulting firm who just happens to be owned by our government "Carlyle Group, a giant US-based investment fund with $ 176bn in assets".
Who has committed a crime against the United States Constitution and the American People?
Snowden was being a PATRIOT..defending the American people from those who violated it. The last thing our government wants to do is lose money the greedy fucks they are, and have spun this shit completely around to pull the wool over some without brains or have a need to turn their cheek the other way... Follow the money.
Can't wait to hear the retort on this. 🙂
Who has committed a crime against the United States Constitution and the American People?
Snowden was being a PATRIOT..defending the American people from those who violated it. The last thing our government wants to do is lose money the greedy fucks they are, and have spun this shit completely around to pull the wool over some without brains or have a need to turn their cheek the other way... Follow the money.
Can't wait to hear the retort on this. 🙂
Bottom line...Snowden isn't a traiter...he went after one of the biggest crooks who are trying to take control of this country...a corporation...whose running the corporation? lol..
Clarity is bliss.
Clarity is bliss.
If 9/11 is attached to this under a well calculated plan for the new Homeland Security to be born in the name of greed...watch what happens next.
We are tiny little ants..
We are owned like slaves.
We are owned like slaves.
Posted by tiki33 I do not feel the Gov't did anything wrong but that's just me.
As for normal, no it's not normal but it's happening it's been happening. Want to take the Gov't down, good luck with that.
....and the government loves people just like you and counts on that.^^
Posted by Scorp73
He worked as a defense contractor for the NSA, and that's the Oath of Office for the Armed Forces. Defense contractors are not military members.
...the contractors were hired by the NSA which IS Government who DID have an Oath of Office and who are RESPONSIBLE for violating the constitutional right of every American citizen.
Snowden let the government know what was going on and under both the Homeland Security NDA & Constitution was what he was lawfully SUPPOSE to do and DID.
Posted by LetltB("Booz Allen is in turn majority owned by the Carlyle Group, a giant US-based investment fund with $ 176bn in assets." http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/09/booz-allen-hamilton-edward-snowden)
One important tid bit about that^^^ Carlyle Group..and why I keep bringing up 9/11..
Carlyle's 2001 investor conference took place on September 11, 2001.
In the weeks following the meeting, it was reported that Shafiq bin Laden, a member of the Bin Laden family, had been the "guest of honor", and that they were investors in Carlyle managed funds.[21][22][23][24][25] Later reports confirmed that the Bin Laden family had invested $ 2 million into Carlyle's $ 1.3 billion Carlyle Partners II Fund in 1995, making the family relatively small investors with the firm.[26]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Carlyle_Group
I can only hope..Snowden/Greenwald is going to give us all what we wish for, and what we wish for some of us might not want to hear. I happen to be one who does. Do you really think your vote counts in elections?
Posted by LetltB
The government works for the politicians elected by the people, voted in by the people and the government hired this group who then in essence also works for the people of America. With that said...this multi billion dollar consulting group hired Edward Snowden. Edward Snowden signed (supposedly) the NDA provided by Booz Allen as provided by Scorp73:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/isoo/new_sf312.pdf (make sure you read that very carefully..)
Some of you are trying to say ^^^that supercedes our Constitution. Actually what supercedes ^^that is the Government Homeland Security Non-Disclosure Act WHO HIRED Booz Allen. The Homeland NDA is suppose to PROTECT Americans right? When they hired this consultant group EVERY SINGLE OWNER OF THAT GROUP by law had to sign the Homeland Security NDA.
Let's take a look at the specifics (and I'll provide a link for the full content) of the Homeland Security NDA. (then compare what Scorp73 provided the Corporate NDA vs. Homeland Security's NDA). Pretty damn relevant WHICH one supercedes...
I'll try to be short: You're most welcome for the service. It was a fun 10 years!
I've made my feelings known about Snowden in earlier posts this year, but don't really want to go into it.
I'm simply saying there are different oaths in question here. As someone who did serve as enlisted, and not an officer, I did swear an oath to protect the Constitution, but not the one which was previously cited- which is for officers. As with about 70% or greater of the military, I held a security clearance. (It's not as big of a deal as you might think.) When I held that clearance, I did have to swear that I wouldn't reveal that information, but that oath neither supersedes nor made mention of the Constitution. To be really honest, I am not concerned about the NSA snooping in on my privacy. All radio signals can be intercepted. That means your cell phone, and so on. Why am I not concerned? Google USSID 18 and FISA Courts. (But yeah, Bush did weaken them significantly about a decade ago.)
Posted by SteveWPosted by tiki33
The telephony metadata program does not violate the Fourth Amendment rights of telephone customers. By definition, the people cannot deem to be "unreasonable" what they do not know about. It is not unconstitutional to seize data and request a search of that data at a later time. If the surveillance is illegal then every camera unseen that collects data is breaking the law. I do not feel the Gov't did anything wrong but that's just me.
As for normal, no it's not normal but it's happening it's been happening. Want to take the Gov't down, good luck with that.
are you sure about that?
http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/16/justice/nsa-surveillance-court-ruling/
wait until rand paul's lawsuit goes to the supreme court and then we will be able to then collect money.click to expand
"This month two judges issued two different opinions about the NSA??s controversial bulk metadata collection program. Judge Richard Leon ruled in Washington, D.C., that the program likely violated the law. Judge William Pauley ruled in New York that the program did not violate the law. Judge Pauley??s opinion is both correct legally and more sensible than Judge Leon??s, but it's not hard to imagine that even our conservative Supreme Court could go the other way.'
By Eric Posner
Posted by SteveW
"Take the government down"
You can be scared of them all you want..
Nah I'm not scared, no reason to be, I see what's going on evil and good, I'm not afraid of evil but you are which is why you have so much hate and fear for our Gov't least you seem like you do.
"You're beginning to remind me of the people in the Road Warrior who just wanted to hand over the gas, so the mean people wouldn't hurt them.
Please expand on your thoughts regarding the "End Goal"-- I'm riveted."
But you see I'm not afraid of the mean people, many of the people in the world are, maybe you are I dunno but I'm sure not, I'll fight for mine, I'll do it in a heartbeat and I'm as non-violent as they come.
As for the end goal, none of us really know, we think we know because some fool decided he know and we should just believe the NWO garbage that's out there, not all of it is garbage but a significant amount of it is made up.
But what I do know is that we've all managed to be born, to thrive, to live a decent existence under these so called dark forces.
So many people lose sight of what's truly happening because they hate our Government and they spend gynormous amounts of time trying to out them as evil forces but I ain't got time for that shit okay, I know our Gov't and some of the powers behind have evil forces just like any other Gov't on the planet but I believe in the American people which trumps any evil/plotting that's going on. I believe we will fight, we will take a firm stand, we will protect ourselves and we will do what's necessary by any means necessary. Some of us are awake, we know what's going on.
Please expand on your thoughts regarding the "End Goal"-- I'm riveted."
But you see I'm not afraid of the mean people, many of the people in the world are, maybe you are I dunno but I'm sure not, I'll fight for mine, I'll do it in a heartbeat and I'm as non-violent as they come.
As for the end goal, none of us really know, we think we know because some fool decided he know and we should just believe the NWO garbage that's out there, not all of it is garbage but a significant amount of it is made up.
But what I do know is that we've all managed to be born, to thrive, to live a decent existence under these so called dark forces.
So many people lose sight of what's truly happening because they hate our Government and they spend gynormous amounts of time trying to out them as evil forces but I ain't got time for that shit okay, I know our Gov't and some of the powers behind have evil forces just like any other Gov't on the planet but I believe in the American people which trumps any evil/plotting that's going on. I believe we will fight, we will take a firm stand, we will protect ourselves and we will do what's necessary by any means necessary. Some of us are awake, we know what's going on.
Posted by cowpuncherPosted by tiki33
He's a traitor. I'm sure he'll be taken out at some point. Can't hide behind the iron curtain forever.click to expand
"For letting us know that our FedGov, as a matter of policy, is spending vast resources to routinely deny us several rights enumerated (not granted) in the Bill of Rights?"
Deny what rights?
"That the FedGov has taken domestic spying to dangerous, and clearly criminal levels?"
Being dangerious is a matter of opinion. I don't believe it's dangerous.
"So tell me Tiki, judging by history, how does this domestic spying/secret police stuff usually work out long term?"
It's working out just fine for Putin. It's been around for centuries. You don't really believe the American people are not being monitored in some way and what's happening wasn't happening under Reagan, Ford, Bush Sr and Bush Jr and countless other Presidents, it's working and it will continue to work.
"Snowden is a patriot and did us all a huge favor. Quite a large number of the top people in the current administration and the previous administration belong in a prison cell for what they've been up to."
LOL@patriot...hardly, he's just an self serving assclown least that's what he is to me.
the only thing i'm confused about is him taking asylum in Russia. Does this automatically mean that Russia and the U.S. are going to be friends and work together - military and all? I mean what are the consequences of this future wise? I read that there was a cancelled meeting between Barack Obama and Putin one-on-one due to Snowden's asylum. It made the relations between countries strained.
@Scorp73
Understood about the enlisted. Snowden didn't even get through training. He worked for A CONSULTING GROUP who was hired by the government. On the Homeland Security NDA #14 & #15 protects Snowden (suppose to) since he DID go to the US CONSULATE and kept within the proper channel of both government and the consulting group:
14. These restrictions are consistent with and do not supersede, conflict with, or otherwise alter the employee obligations, rights, or liabilities created by Executive Order No. 12958, as amended; Section 7211 of Title 5, United States Code (governing disclosures to Congress); Section 1034 of Title 10, United States Code, as amended by the Military Whistleblower Protection Act (governing disclosure to Congress by members of the military);
Section 2302(b)(8) of Title 5, United States Code, as amended by the
Whistleblower Protection Act (governing disclosures of illegality, waste, fraud, abuse or public health or safety threats); the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982 (50
USC 421 et seq.) (governing disclosures that could expose confidential Government agents); and the statutes which protect against disclosure that may compromise the national security, including Sections 641, 793, 794, 798, and 952 of Title 18, United States Code, and Section 4(b) of the Subversive Activities Act of 1950 (50 USC 783(b)). The definitions, requirements, obligations, rights, sanctions, and liabilities created by said Executive Order and listed statutes are incorporated into this agreement and are controlling.
15. Signing this Agreement does not bar disclosures to Congress or to an authorized official of an executive agency or the Department of Justice that are essential to reporting a substantial violation of law.
Understood about the enlisted. Snowden didn't even get through training. He worked for A CONSULTING GROUP who was hired by the government. On the Homeland Security NDA #14 & #15 protects Snowden (suppose to) since he DID go to the US CONSULATE and kept within the proper channel of both government and the consulting group:
14. These restrictions are consistent with and do not supersede, conflict with, or otherwise alter the employee obligations, rights, or liabilities created by Executive Order No. 12958, as amended; Section 7211 of Title 5, United States Code (governing disclosures to Congress); Section 1034 of Title 10, United States Code, as amended by the Military Whistleblower Protection Act (governing disclosure to Congress by members of the military);
Section 2302(b)(8) of Title 5, United States Code, as amended by the
Whistleblower Protection Act (governing disclosures of illegality, waste, fraud, abuse or public health or safety threats); the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982 (50
USC 421 et seq.) (governing disclosures that could expose confidential Government agents); and the statutes which protect against disclosure that may compromise the national security, including Sections 641, 793, 794, 798, and 952 of Title 18, United States Code, and Section 4(b) of the Subversive Activities Act of 1950 (50 USC 783(b)). The definitions, requirements, obligations, rights, sanctions, and liabilities created by said Executive Order and listed statutes are incorporated into this agreement and are controlling.
15. Signing this Agreement does not bar disclosures to Congress or to an authorized official of an executive agency or the Department of Justice that are essential to reporting a substantial violation of law.
Whistleblower protection laws and regulations guarantee freedom of speech for workers and contractors in certain situations. Laws, like the Ethics in Government Act, cannot be enforced if the free speech of individuals that report workplace corruption or crime is not protected. The difficulty with the free speech rights of whistleblowers, particularly those in national defense, is that work-related reports associated with classified information can have a negative impact on national security and the public debt. The Supreme Court has limited the constitutional protections guaranteed to Americans under the aegis of the First Amendment in the areas of national defense and government employment.
Civilian employees and military personnel in the intelligence gathering and assessment field are required to sign non-disclosure agreements, a practice upheld by the Supreme Court in Snepp v. United States. The High Court ruled that secrecy agreements circumscribing an individual's disclosure of classified information did not violate their First Amendment rights. Non-disclosure agreements signed by employees create similar conflicts in private business.
An understanding of basic statutory laws, the common law as well as public and private sector personnel regulations is needed to understand how to perform a whistleblower disclosure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whistleblower_protection_in_the_United_States
Civilian employees and military personnel in the intelligence gathering and assessment field are required to sign non-disclosure agreements, a practice upheld by the Supreme Court in Snepp v. United States. The High Court ruled that secrecy agreements circumscribing an individual's disclosure of classified information did not violate their First Amendment rights. Non-disclosure agreements signed by employees create similar conflicts in private business.
An understanding of basic statutory laws, the common law as well as public and private sector personnel regulations is needed to understand how to perform a whistleblower disclosure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whistleblower_protection_in_the_United_States
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I found it.
"At his meeting with human rights groups and others on 12 July, Snowden said he was claiming asylum in Russia, with a view to staying there temporarily before claiming asylum in a Latin American country.
He said he had received offers from Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua and Ecuador."
Not too appealing, I guess.
I still can't believe they got away with this--
Even if the attack was motivated by the film, the film-maker isn't to blame.
If that wasn't bad enough, Hillary is profiting from it in her new book, which also doubles as an inside look at what "really happened."
Hillary Clinton: I'm the Real Victim of Benghazi
"Hillary Clinton may not be much at administering the State Department, but she's certainly a pro when it comes to expressing outrage at her own persecution.
For the woman who is supposedly the world??s most powerful feminist, her sense of victimhood remains surprisingly strong.
That's never been more true than in her new book... which points out that she —
not the four men who died in Benghazi, Libya, on the night of September 11, 2012 —
is the victim."
link
They wouldn't hesitate to make an example out of Snowden.