Understanding A PLAYER Virgo

I've written before about a Virgo man I work with, who cannot be faithful to his long-suffering wife, and I've called him the Player VirGuy. He's had numerous affairs with women in this building and on this military installation, and he makes very little effort to hide this activity from his wife, or the women he's hooking up with - and it has caused some memorable dramatic scenes over the years!

I found an interesting article at the Psychology Today website [http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20071118-000003.html]: Field Guide to the Casanova: The Lady-killer Files -- it's well worth reading. This paragraph really made me think:

Serial seducers tend to have grown up with absent fathers, says Jed Diamond, a psychotherapist and author of The Irritable Male. A lack of early connection to a father figure may make men insecure about their acceptability, Diamond says, and luring in women becomes a way to compensate.

I did some asking around the office, and sure enough, the Player VirGuy's parents divorced when he was 7 or 8, and his Dad moved to another state. His Mom did remarry, but it was after his high school graduation. So, he fits a plausible model, and is not quite as repugnant as I thought. It still doesn't excuse his adultery and infidelity, but I haven't walked in his shoes, either.

Ahem. I myself went through a 3-4 year period where all I cared about was getting laid, but I didn't take the role of predator. My hookups were fortunate occurrences, not well-planned conquests, and I never lied or manipulated to get the girl between the sheets. Yes, it was exciting, but after a while, was not very fulfilling - even though the break-up hurt (a lot!), my Taurus taught me that sex + love is sooooooooo much better than drunken f0cking after a frat party... and I've been on that track ever since - except right after my divorce from the Libra (but lots of guys act like they've been let out of prison under those circumstances!).

Anyway. I feel certain that the player VirGuy understands that his actions are hurtful to all concerned, and that they defy logic, and yet he feels compelled to seduce every available woman he meets. (So much for Virgos being logic-ruled robots.) Lots of guys would say, "Lucky bastard!" But they don't have to see and/or hear about the women with broken hearts who no longer trust guys because of this one jerk-off.

Players make it tougher for us nice guys. Plus, he makes us VirGuys look bad. One bad apple in a barrel of goofy, shy, but honorable nerds who would never treat a woman - much less a wife! - the way he does.

~DyarStra?e

Fascinating! Good to know. I'll weave that into conversations when I meet guys to find out how they grew up and look for those tendencies in their behavior. THNX

Here's your reality check DD ****I choose not to learn how to understand someone who will refuse me my respect and dignity in a relationship.**** Your ignorance will cause you pain my dear. Because if you don't have a "heads up" on knowing if the guy has the "tendency" to be a player ......then how are you going to have that awareness to avoid getting played so you can move on if necessary BEFORE that happens— DSB gave some very interesting information you SHOULD take into consideration. It may or may not be true but it is certainly of valuable interest. Be warned....be aware! Use the information to your advantage don't run from it. Find out when you meet someone you have a potential interest in and learn these things about him. THEN you will look for that kind of behavior in him and be cautious to look for those flags as a sign to NOT continue with that kind of individual and spare yourself the pain of further involvement.

By all means you should ALWAYS take time to get to know someone very well BEFORE you get sexually involved. If he's willing to wait then he's also probably NOT a player. Players get impatient and start pressuring. That's flag number one. But women often ignore the flags (myself included at times in the past). Eventually, you learn. If you don't, you will keep repeating the same mistakes until YOU change. You keep getting what you're getting BECAUSE you keep doing what you're doing. Awareness leads to change.

OH and thanks DyarStra?e for being a NICE guy✨*****Players make it tougher for us nice guys. Plus, he makes us VirGuys look bad. One bad apple in a barrel of goofy, shy, but honorable nerds who would never treat a woman - much less a wife! - the way he does.****

Well we're not all as gifted as you DD to fetter out the players the way you can. That is why this type of information is extremely useful for those who are somewhat "impaired" at spotting the user upon first meeting them. ie: Start a little conversation, casually ask how many brothers and sisters he has, yada, yada,...bring up the old childhood thing and find out if he fits the scenerio...and BINGO....it might help to get that info right then. (know what I mean?)😉

WTF—?*****This is a self indulgent post is what I think...nothing more or less. Often times retired players like to talk about their player days as days of somewhat glory and they also like to put forth that they have changed********

Would that be why you exited DD—? Cuz I don't see anywhere in this post any one is posting any bragging rights to that affect or how that pertains to making a correlation between a young adolescent males upbringing and an excuse for their adult behavior according to this article/study.

It just seemed more like a "public service announcement" to bring it to our attention. How could you possibly know a persons family background, friends they hang out with, where they go and what they do when you first meet them as you allege?? That takes time. Time invested in getting to know those things. My point (which you seemed to have missed repeatedly) was that if you met someone you were initially attracted to and began a conversation and found out he was brought up without a father figure it MIGHT have some bearing on his behavior and being a player (proceed with caution). A cautionary point of knowledge to assist in looking for the signs you claim you know instantly that the rest of us.....unfortunately....don't have that gift you seem to have. Particularly if you move to a new city and you don't know a lot of people . Tell us more about this gift*********You can choose to believe this or not but I have an amazing judge of character and I can do it in a matter of minutes.********* Please share with us how you can do that with someone you've never met or their friends and family, etc, etc. I would really like to know your process.

Come back DD, Come back !!! I want to hear more about how you, and anyone else, goes about exposing a player. Come on......dish it up!!! It's getting much more interesting now.

*******The females who don't know he's married again....why aren't they taking the time to get to know who he is and what he's about before laying down with him? What happened to, let's get to know each other first? If he walks, I guess they would have their answer right? Without the drama.***** Players. Some are so good that they've written stories about them, made movies too, where the men lead a double life. I know of an incident first had where an acquaintance of mine found out she had a step brother who is only a few years younger and a sister that is 8 years younger. He hid this 2nd family for over 19 years. How you ask? I ask myself that same question. His career probably made that possible but....I won't go into that. There are many relationships and marriages right now where the wife and neither the girlfriend know anything about each other. Although this example may be classified more as a "cheater" ....he had to be doing a lot of playing to get there and probably still does. So what are the tell tale signs that a guy is a player upon meeting them? Clues you can observe and watch for as you "get to know them".

VGM: "...I can't help but say, it's these women who are rewarding his behavior. ESPECIALLY THE WIFE! She is remaining with him, her stupidity and insecurity."

My take on that is she simply cannot afford to leave him now, but when their kids are grown, I think she'll move on. From what I've heard, the first time she caught him (before I started working at this place), she came to the office, and kicked his ass (people still talk about it!). Since then, I guess she figures it's not worth her getting that upset over. And, he's not. In my book, he's lower than whale sh1t.

I agree she should leave. It sends the wrong message to the children that life doesn't have options when it really does. Suffering is one option but it isn't the only option. Teaching them to have the courage to make positive choices and the strength to take action and move on are extremely powerful and valuable lessons to be learned thru being an example and a role model.

However, this woman may be trying to honor her marriage vows (the "for better for worse" part) and when she realizes it is futile........then maybe she'll move on. Probably not. It usually takes a complete catastrophic event to motivate people to change. And even then it is with reluctance and a stream of bitter complaining.

VGM, While I understand where you're coming from, it's hard for me to be critical of Her when He's such a piece of sh1t! Plus, I don't know all the details, and you know us Virgs try to be fair when in doubt...

As for Him: I honestly think he has other emotional issues as well. He's the most erratic VirGuy I've ever met - maybe bipolar?? NOT excusing his horrible behavior, just trying to understand it, because it is so not me, and not typical of the Virgo male...

My Scorp can't stand him (he hit on her when she first started here), and she's generally civil - even to folks she doesn't like - but not with this guy.

fumingli_scorp, I hate to hear how badly your Dad treated your Mom. When I recall how my VirDad suffered after my LeoMom's death (us kids worried that he was gonna grieve himself to death), it really p1sses me off -- a Husband should act like a Husband, or get the hell out, and live like the pathetic Player he is.

Yes, leaving someone is a very difficult thing to do. You don't have to be married to have difficulty making that choice. It's just hard to do because there is still a good side of them you love and cherish and once fell in love with that has NOTHING to do with the player side of their behavior.

Fumi_, that was nice to hear a happy ending for your mother and father. Too bad more situations like that don't turn out the same.

I've been played and I had no inkling of it at all. I met him at work. He had a gf when I first started there but we didn't talk much then, then over a year later he asked me out and I accepted. On the first date I asked him about this gf and he said they'd broke up about 3-4 months before, and were in the process of selling the house they had and he was staying at his mum's. This sounded plausible to me. We weren't an open couple at work, but quite a few people knew about it and no one ever said anything to me (not sure if they really knew or if they thought I knew about his gf and wasn't bothered by it). We had a 'normal' relationship except that he never took me to his mum's as he said she wasn't comfortable with me staying over, and again this sounded plausible as my mum would have been the same. Instead we went away for weekends together (usually a couple of times a month), he gave a me a lift home every night after work and we went on at least 2 dates a week, if not more most of the time. This went on for about 5 months and I thought things were great, we got on so well. Then I found out about his gf, who he was obviously still living with. I was sooooo gutted.

Still work with him now, he's had a baby with his gf and I hear that he isn't very happy.

So I would definitley like to know exactly how to spot a player as some of them do not instantly try to get in your pants, but take the time to get to know you so you feel they actually care about you, then drop you like a hot potato once they've got you into bed! Funnily enough, this player's dad had left when he was young.

Yes Copperhead, it is this type of player that is nearly undetectable. They lead convincingly double lives. They go the extra yard to be sure they are not caught. They aren't thinking ever about what they start with you will cause you great pain because of their selfishness. All that matters to them is some NEED is not being fulfilled albeit emotional, psychological, sexual, intellectual..etc. and they go elsewhere and everywhere to find it. So where is DD now to give us all this great advise on how EASY it is to spot a player??

Let's get past the obvious guy that boasts about all his escapades. The REAL players are the smooth operators. Sometimes when I listen to my intuition and I get this feeling when a guy is offering me more information then I ask for I ask myself "why is he telling me that"? Is it just to reassure me that he's NOT seeing someone else which could mean that he actually is and he's trying to convince me. If he repeats something to me more then once I might get a red flag from my intuition that he could be rehearsing his story to keep it straight. Those kind of things have alerted my suspicions and lead to becoming more curious about his intentions which led of course to doubting everything he said and did, which ultimately led to arguments that either did or did not turn out to expose the player that he was or was not.

In the case where the guy was not a player it didn't work out because I was damaged by the suspicions of the previous guy who tried to play me and I guess I was taking out the resentment on the next guy. oops

You're right Temple, he was the worst kind of player. He then had the audacity to say that he would have left her for me(!) but that I was stronger so I could handle the rejection better than she could so he didn't have the balls to do it! As if I wanted to be with him anyway after I found out about his lies. I did want him, and I still do now in a strange way, but I could never go back, I'd never trust him and I wouldn't want to be second choice, plus I could never believe anything he says. He still tries it on from time to time, but I always decline.

That experience taught me a lesson, in that you sometimes can't trust what men say to you and also the lengths some men will go to get you into bed. This has caused problems for me in subsequent relationships as it's took me a good while to trust that they haven't got a significant other/seeing anyone else casually and you can look very weird asking them if they have a gf when you're on a date with them!

I would like to know how DD can spot one of these players, as I think we're all wise to the smooth talking charmer who offers you the world to get in your pants! Unless you hire a private investigator to follow your new man, how can you possibly know what happens when you're not there?!

The more thought I give to this topic it makes me think back on a lot of BS guys say just for T&A. I remember this one guy I used to call he would almost NEVER answer his phone and then when he did return the call he would never talk more then a few minutes and he always "had to go". He said he was always calling at work but if that were true he had a very erratic work schedule. So one day I followed him and saw him get out of his car and this woman (probably the gf) and she looked very angry.

The next day I asked him about it and he had the NERVE to get mad at me for following him. Yes, it was wrong but.......what about lying to me and telling me he didn't have a gf in the first place?? Yes, you need a private detective to catch them at their game but it would be helpful to get some other stories of how we've all caught them in their web of lies.

Here's a list I found from other sources on the web.
1. Vagueness. when they don't give you all the info about themselves
2. Only available certain days and prone to last minute cancellations
3. The guy who never invites you to his place probably has telltale signs of a gf or is living with one.
4. Cell phone use. Particularly if he has more then one cell phone too. He can tell you one is for work, the other is for emergencies, and the other is for friends. If he turns his phone off, mutes, it or has them on vibe when he'with you. Be suspicious if he doesn't answer his calls when he's with you But gets up to go to the bathroom shortly after he has an incoming call. Or excuses himself to go outside to return calls after a little while.
5. unflexible and downright rude or obnoxious about giving you extra time or spending time with you on the spur of the moment, sound the warning bells
6. Too much praise or compliments early on
7. You only see him......when he wants to see you.
8. If you don't know his friends or his family
9. If he falls fast or hard for you
10. If he asks too many questions. He's probably just trying to figure out what you like and he can be that kind of guy for you so you'll fall for him.
11. Late dinners equal late nite desserts (if you know what I mean)
12. He ignores you and vanishes for days, weeks, or even months at a time.
13. Does he play a musical instrument or sing? Doesn't always mean they're players but a good many of them ARE.

Women can be just as savvy at being players as men. They key is trying to detect, decode, and denounce them before you become their next victim.

Amen Starfish. AMEN to that !!!!!!

CANCERBUDDY, I posted a happy Cancer + Virgo gay story on your what the hell? thread -- enjoy!

VGM: "She can only take responsibility for herself, and if she likes being treated that way, she deserves him. When children are in the picture however, they are the priority and the responsibility."

I agree with you (and so does my Scorp!); however, it's tough for a Virgo to say that with such conviction without knowing more (if not all) of the details, because it's quite possible that from her point of view, she is doing the best she can in a terrible circumstance.

(PS: In discussing this thread with my Debra, she's come very close to participating herself -- nothing gets her dander up like this Player!)

Temple: "The more thought I give to this topic it makes me think back on a lot of BS guys say just for T&A."

Well, maybe you gals should take a cue from Women's Lib, and just sleep with us guys with no strings attached -- like the promiscuity in the male homosexual community (all those men who just can't say NO to each other!)... [Just an idea.]

"Women can be just as savvy at being players as men. They key is trying to detect, decode, and denounce them before you become their next victim."

Yes, and anyone can be played -- exactly why most Virgs are cautious in the Love Games.

Easier said then done DS *****Well, maybe you gals should take a cue from Women's Lib, and just sleep with us guys with no strings attached -- like the promiscuity in the male homosexual community (all those men who just can't say NO to each other!)... [Just an idea.]***** Women are programmed differently. It really is very difficult to detach emotions from our sexuality. It "is" what drives our sexual excitement. It's what we begin to FEEL for that other person that makes us WANT to have sex with them in the first place .

Once we're in a relationship, when the feelings are falling away, women often refuse sex because the emotions are turned off. Or we we can just lay there waiting for it to be over that we aren't feeling anything.

However, that being said, I can't really think of a time I was "just having sex" and didn't feel at least something for that person.

I'm pretty sure prostitutes can "turn it off emotionally" to "get the job done" so to speak. But women in general........not so easy my friend.

On one final note: even booty call is not just having sex with someone. That woman agrees to it because she is fond of the person on some level. It IS still attached to a feeling, otherwise she most probably wouldn't be agreeing to it at all.

I totally agree temple, I have had 'casual' sex with people but it's always been people I've known, not good friends, but mutual friends or aquaintances with who I can talk to. The emotional link makes it much more satisfying.

I remember finding out about my player's secret. I was waiting for him outside his office and I heard people in there talking about his gf. I knew they were definitely not talking about me because we were both keen on keeping it quiet in the early months. So I confronted him on the drive home, quite calmly which surprised even me, and he was silent for a while, then said that he thought the two of them were giving it another go. I was so gutted, but the shock just made me get out of the car and not say anything, which I'm glad of now cos at least I kept my dignity intact somewhat! He kept texting saying he was sorry and confused and we didn't talk for months. We talk now a bit, he likes a lot of the same stuff as me and I have to work more closely with him now, but it can be strained.

funny.....from what dy's info states....I'M that Player Virgo....!!!! LMAO hahahaha probably more narcissitic than anything: Now, I've had to survive and fight, and it just so happens that I used my charm and cunning abilities sometimes to climb up the latter of life (lets be real here I'm not happy I did it but hell, life ain't easy and playing the 'ethics bowl' ain't exactly going to pay off all the time)....never had to seduce, but charm is a different story.....most people say that my 'aloof charm' or my affability is what draws them in....but underneath this I'm a nice guy. Not a player. I wouldn't play with my heart that way, and since I do in fact have one to protect, I wouldn't have anything to gain by being that EXACT guy. I'm admitting that I've had to survive, and to do that I learned to be charming and deceptive.....

I would NEVER play with someone's feelings....NEVER.....well, *VE struggles against his player ways* if they deserved it...NO!!!! I wouldn't!! lol seriously I wouldn't....That's not cool.....someone who's willing to show me a wealth of feeling will be payed HANSOMELY...with...well your truly....😛 lol 😛

your=yours

consider coming from the other side of the tracks.....people trying to take advantage of you and your kindness, having to basically fight all the time...I'm not a cynic, but damn, If I'm not a realist....I take people for what exactly they are...I've got no real illusions about people at all people really do try to take advantage of others regardless of age, or geneder.....You've gotta give yourself and edge to win....that's just apart of being a living breathing animal, survival instincts......hell I wouldn't be a smart if I weren't so focused on survival.

I don't mean to offend you VirgoExalted but you contradict yourself much in the way of playing people and justifying yourself for doing it.

******.I take people for what exactly they are...I've got no real illusions about people at all people really do try to take advantage of others regardless of age, or geneder.....You've gotta give yourself and edge to win....that's just apart of being a living breathing animal, survival instincts.*****

This is where YOU are sadly mistaken. NOT EVERYONE is out to get you or take advantage of you. The false belief that you need to take advantage of people first before you THINK they are going to take advantage of you is why you will always always struggle internally with trusting someone and allowing yourself to be vulnerable to another with your most precious commodity.......your heart. Which is why ****having to basically fight all the time...I'm not a cynic, but damn, If I'm not a realist**** you consciously believe that you need to take all you can before someone does it to you first. That has to be a horrible way to guard your heart. It's like being anorexic with your heart by being heartless.

*******You've gotta give yourself and edge to win.****** See, you've made it a game. You play people and you enjoy it because it is a game to you. Although I do think you want something more deep inside it's just that you've created a way in which it will always allude you through this kind of behavior and thought process.

lmao!!! TempleofJag, whaterya talkin' about!? Now you sould like a Virgin!! lol
LMAO!!! Interesting!! So you think you've got my number?! lol Think you've got me figured out hrrrrrmmmm?!!! lol 😛 I'm sorry this is just too rich to take to heart!!! lmao!!!
You think that what I was saying was contradictory?! ROFLAMO!!! Listen you've obviously not experienced the deepest, darkest part of love.....missery, neglect and their friend abuse. I've never taken from anyone, and am on the whole a giver, but I'm FOR DAMNED SURE NOBODIES FOOL, and nourish myself plenty despite the obviously low rescources if that comes off as selfish, or withholding affection to you then why I'm to care?! lmao....I've got love for anyone and will forgive, but will apply less, and less heart with each time you think you can just break mine for kicks, what the point of being in a relationship that is hell-bent on tearing you down, before it's even built you up?!

Giving yourself an edge to win is the way you SURVIVE!!!! It's a philosophy not just a lesson in love or matters of the heart!!! You've got to know how to protect yourself, and get what you need by GIVING it first. I never take from anyone, and even hate doing that....I don't like to see people suffer, but I know it's apart of life, and if you want special treatment or exclusion from it, try downing a bottle of oxy: for all the others who really know what's good in life, (and are obviously a little more mundane) know that......Yes, the love I want is exactly what you're talking about, and I pursue it single-mindedly, that's what I want, but there's no way to get around it.....people get used each and everyday.....we can talk about how unfair it is, but when we sit on our asses, and do nothing, we're guilty of the same injustice....indifference is the problem, not me. Not at all.

I'm not mad either: I just think what you said and anyone who thinks that way is silly, and is asking to be laughed outta the park!!! lol thanxxx for that!! I gotta say, most people can't rouse that kind of laugh outta me, but you managed......I'm in your debt TempleofJaguar. 😛

I'm not a player: I'm a SURVIVOR. Gotta fight for anything you want in this world, and fights aren't necessarily physical....Life has taught me much about myself, and what lies inside of me. I'm trying to be better than the worst part of my nature, but I can't pretend that just becuase I'm a Virgo that that part dosen't exist. It's by accepting the good, with the bad do you really transform.....I accept even the more gruesome parts of my being, and feel great for it....I don't live in denial, I fully accept all of who I am, and that I ALONE influence my destiny....NO ONE ELSE can.

You're welcome for the laugh VirgoE but there's often tears behind the face of a clown. You can find humor in it but you know what I am telling you is true. You can deny it publicly but what I'm telling you is true. I know this hurts you because you are really a very sensitive person that most people don't get to EVER see that side of you. You fight like hell to defend it. Therein lies the problem. Your very nature to continually be defensive because your sensitivity has been wounded so badly. Take it out on the whole world because you're still mad about things that happened to you in the past. The past is the past. You can blame those that caused that pain in the past but YOU are responsible for the pain you carry now.

*****I've never taken from anyone, and am on the whole a giver, but I'm FOR DAMNED SURE NOBODIES FOOL, and nourish myself plenty despite the obviously low rescources if that comes off as selfish, or withholding affection to you****** This is how you justify your "giving" nature?? This isn't generous on any level. Who would want to be the recipient of that kind of nature? Which is precisely what I was trying to convey to you. People REACT to your actions! You reap what you sow! Do you like it when YOU are treated this way?

******I've got love for anyone and will forgive, but will apply less, and less heart with each time you think you can just break mine for kicks****** you're creating your own drama my dear. As much as you say you don't live in denial I think all that you wrote declares otherwise from just the tone you set in writing it.

Life is/can be hard......... you choose to make it harder. You chose the way you see the world and everyone in it. Therefore, you see only the bad as you enter into one relationship after the other. It can only be a constant source of disappointment for you based upon your attitude. It appears to be so ingrained into you that change, apparently, would be too difficult for you to accept otherwise. It is unlikely that you ever would change because of it. Consequently, I stand by what I said before ******I do think you want something more deep inside it's just that you've created a way in which it will always allude you through this kind of behavior and thought process.*******

I'm loyal to a fault, screwing around never made sense to me once committed. BEFORE you are committed however...whole different story.

Temple:You're welcome for the laugh VirgoE but there's often tears behind the face of a clown. You can find humor in it but you know what I am telling you is true. You can deny it publicly but what I'm telling you is true. I know this hurts you because you are really a very sensitive person that most people don't get to EVER see that side of you

lmao!!! hahaha....stop it for the love of GAWD stop it!!! LMAO!!!

toss me that clown pain ANY DAY! ROFLMAO I don't deny anything at all, especially if it's true, but that is COMPLETELY off base temple you may as well give up the psychoanalysis, cuz it ain't for you man lol Once again, I'm not hurt by your words, quite the contrary I'm intrigued and amused that you'd think you know me so intimately!! lmao.....I gaurd my emotions from any bastard who thinks they're clever enough to envoke them....sensitivity is just the way I come off becuase it has it's advantages (it's practical at times).....do you honestly believe that the world could give a rat's ass about you or your feelings? Ha! Not at all! Sensetivity is best left to the weaker willed:

I have no time for sensitivity or softness becuase I've got to wage war for what I want, and that's that you can't rely on ANYONE or ANYTHING to come through in a pinch but you.....I don't feel the need to be defensive towards your claim, becuase they're so perverse. I bet you never even met a 'monster'......you know the guys and gals that walk around and try their damndest to be that 'best friend' or that 'loved one' LMAO....I bet you haven't really LIVED!! LOL It would explain that idealism you've got though I gotta admitt, It's one hell of a motivator! lol

I change ONLY when necessary: And COUNT on me to be obstinate towards my belief My philosophy hasn't let me down, only PEOPLE have so why wait on them?. Personally, I'm bored, and a little tired of dealing/hearing with other peoples whinning and crying....If I can handle a job on my own, I'm going to do it, and that's anywhere in life. Depending on someone is a joke really....you think you can depend on someone for anything? Ha, you'd be better off on your own. Why should I think that anyone should be in my corner, and in all honesty, I'd rather they weren't: things get irritating and bothersome when you have too many 'split ends' in your life. Sensitivity is a joke, and honestly, My sensitivity has gone, becuase I don't NEED nor do I ACCEPT it.

And, why for that matter should you even care about what I think? You don't know me, so really, why have you taken such a shinning to me? I don't know what cloud you live on, but really, c'mon down to earth and really get a good look at the truth....Also, you'll never see me vent on anyone......I would never let something as petty as a past mistake influence my behavior for the future....the past is to be learned from, and the future is for change.....I'm protective of myself, becuase NO ONE in life is. which is why I hold my claim: You've got to fight, and survive life isn't any harder than I make it, and my life is realatively simple: keep the fools out, and keep to myself, Share no personal information, and Keep it moving... and all is fine....
I never divulge TOO much information about me personal or how I FEEL about any given subject....heh, and risk giving that information to someone who could use it against me? Ameteurs I tell ya.....I don't see everything or everyone as bad if I HAD ANY choice in the matter, I'dve deffinitely chose the idealistic path, but I'm no fool either: People say that on the whole they're harmless, but how much of an idiot do you have to be to believe something so blatantly false? You may as well be handing them the knife to stabb you in the back! lol

Thank you VirgoExalted for proving MY point. I rest my case!

Clueless: "He doesn't know how to be a man if he wanted."

And yet, you're still posting about him on a 6 year old thread...

There must be an 8th Level of Cancer Woman Hell that Dante didn't write about.

i'm wondering then.. what is the inverse effect? as in the effect on a pisces (the complete opposite sign of a virgo) with his mother missing in his life, rather than his father—

i think regardless of sign or gender, people who grow up in broken homes generally are a little off balance in some aspects of their lives. case in point: me.