Violence at home...

I didnt know where to post this one so I put it here...besides I like conversing and sharing with you all.
I got into a heated discussion with my girlfriend about the issue of using physical punishment with children.
How do you all feel about this issue?
How much word/action is taken until it is considered "violent"?
How much is too far?
Does spanking,slapping,paddling,etc teach more than pain and fear?
Does it really make or allow the child to understand the mistake at hand?
I am not for violence in any way. Especially toward children.
Whats your views...?

I didnt know where to post this one so I put it here...besides I like conversing and sharing with you all.
I got into a heated discussion with my girlfriend about the issue of using physical punishment with children.
How do you all feel about this issue?
How much word/action is taken until it is considered "violent"?
How much is too far?
Does spanking,slapping,paddling,etc teach more than pain and fear?
Does it really make or allow the child to understand the mistake at hand?
I am not for violence in any way. Especially toward children.
Whats your views...?

posted twice...(?)
sorry.

TLH

I guess your question is involve discipline? right..??

TLH I was myself planning to introduce this topic someday. Violence has to be avoided. Unless ofcourse the child is in danger or putting soembody else in danger- in which case you need to shake them up. That's all.

Violence biggets violence. Plus it encourages manipulations. The child learns how to manipulate the parent successfully anyway. But when they are suppresseed due tofear of violence, they manipulate in worst possible way. The child stops trusting the parent.Plus violence can hurt the child physically & render them handicapped(it does happen).

Plus just think about it this way. One may think that violence used in milder way can discipline the child. But if the same mistake is committed by an adult, do we use violene with them?

Or just ask oneself...is violence being used to discipline the child or is one venting their own frustrations on the child?

I will reflect on this some later as I do have a lot to say.

I am for anyday picking up a child how ever naughty & holding them till they calm down.

TLH

"Punishment", in contrast to discipline, is intended to inflict pain. Punishment requires an angry parent and produces hostile, rebellious children.

Punishment does teach:

? to be afraid of authority.
? to resent authority.
? how to lie.
? how to do things without getting caught.




"Discipline" requires a thinking parent and produces cooperative, thinking, responsible children. It's just common sense.

Discipline does teach:

? Actions produce consequences.
? Choose an action, receive the consequence.
? We are all responsible for our actions.
? We are all held accountable for our choices.
? We must discipline ourselves.


In general, peoples with the personality complexes and disorders, criminals, murderers, rapists etc. comes from families with the physical punishments habits.

In my humble opinion even spanking should be avoided even it is friendly.

Hope it was helping.

TLH--

I'm only assuming you're referring to discipline-- because I doubt anyone will openly say, "oh yah, I enjoy beating children."

Anywho, when I was a child, the motto was, "spare the rod, spoil the child." Essentially, when I did something wrong, I was punished with a spanking. Although I received some spankings- I was never struck across the face, hit with closed fists, nor was I spanked without warning. The point of the spanking was NOT to hurt me, or express anger; more-so to show me the seriousness of my mistake. Also, not every wrong-doing warrented a spanking.

Furthermore, I would not describe the few spankings I received as violent. I don't resent either my parents for having punished me, and like I said, not "every" punishment warrented a spanking. If I was getting a spanking, then I knew I had done something really wrong. Also, once I got to be a certain age.. my parents did this thing of lecturing me. By then, I actually preferred the spanking - at least the spanking was over quickly...

the lecture-- pure torture.

Violence is very harsh word, meaning: abusive or unjust exercise of power...

When we are talking about punishing children, everyone has their own technique, but none of them should be considered "violent". The child should know that there will be negative consequences for serious offenses in the home, and some parents will choose spanking. In the event that I have my own children, I don't know if I will spank them or not, but I don't condem parents who choose to do so. Additionally, without knowing them, I won't be so quick to label them as being "violent" people-- or being "violent" towards their child.

What's going too far? Well, ABUSE of any kind going too far (verbal, emotional and physical alike). When the intent of the parent (or abuser) is to harm the child, emotionally or physically, or if the action is NOT done out of love, but spite-- then things are way out of hand.

So basically, I agree with you, TLH. I am not for violence in any kind towards children. But.. I make a strong distinction between "violence" and "punishment".
-sTD

or rather a distinction between "violence" and "discipline" as Qbone has eloquently described above.

People who use violence for discipline or punishment is lacking IQ. They just cant control others with words, so they come to physical punishment. Altough there is much more efficient "disciplinising" meausers rather than "physical punishment".

*measures

Haffo

No man?.I am disagree with it? it has nothing to do with IQ

It is very complex...children does not know the real world and they thrive on the (world of parents).. all those security and love that does not exist outside?!!

Imagine parents (both in work to secure the family economy) get home. Tired of everyday bull.shi.ts meet the nagging kids?!!

It is damn tough?worse than hell?

It is not good to use any force against nagging kids? but hey? we all are humans and we all have our limits?once its broken.. its broken?!!

I have two adorable kids... but sometimes I can't take it?so I invented a method to keep the anger down? COLD SHOWER?. Helps a lot..!!
Not for me thou?

J/K

lol

🙂

Haffo, I agree with Qbone--

I wouldn't be so quick as to broad-stroke all parents who discipline their children through the use of spanking as people with low IQs.

Parenthood is one of those things, where no matter how much you know about the world- you're never truly prepared for the experience until it happens. Many people are learning along the way in addition to dealing with the pressures of work and the relationship with their spouse (or other parent). Also, sometimes it is hard to keep in mind that dealing with a child is very different than dealing with another adult. The child's brain is still developing-- so what seems rational/irrational to you, could be the opposite for the child.

I also found these exerpts from an article to be most useful in our debate:

One reason parents spank is that they are not aware of other effective strategies for changing children's undesirable behavior.
~~~~~
Disciplining toddlers requires a tremendous investment of time, energy, and patience, so it is important to find effective and appropriate techniques (Ruben, 1996). For example, it will not be effective to tell toddlers not to play with items that are dangerous, such as the stove, because they do not understand the consequences (Samalin & Whitney, 1995). Spanking, however, will not clarify the consequences either. Instead, children may learn from spanking that "I'm a bad person," rather than "I did a bad thing." You must use discipline methods consistently or your child will learn that you are not serious.
~~~~~~
The question of whether or not parents should spank their children is not easy to answer. However, spanking is only one of the factors that needs to be considered in the overall discipline process. In deciding how to discipline their children, parents should first ask, "what do I want to accomplish?" If the answer is "teach my children how to make good choices on their own," spanking may not be an issue.

Source:
http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content4/spanking.morph.html

Moreover, I'm not an advocate for any one form of discipline over another, but let's be sure we are on the page semantically. At the very least there is big difference between physically disciplining a child, and being violent towards a child.

perfect...

Thank you STD...
you have my respect for your post---very wise

Thank you agian.

Tell you my own story?

Right on Xmas this year I bought a kids toy called "tamagochi" a computer pets for my daughter.. she wished to have one.. it is popular here among kids?

Well she got one and she was so happy?. It is winter and a lot of activity in snowy Norway?.she had that little "tamagochi" with her out.. Played a lot in snow and ?.well.. she have lost it.

Results?.

She got home and headed right to her room?. Didn?t say anything? after 30 min I got to her room for saying dinner is ready and found her crying?!

I asked her what is wrong? after a long silenced deep cry she told me that she lost her computer pets?. When I said.. its not a big deal to cry over and why she didn?t told me about it, she replied back that she was afraid that I get "disappointed of her"?!

See.. it is another kind of punishments called psychological punishments? (mind you I never say such a things? her mother do).

And its truly broke my heart?..
😢

I dont agree with physical punishments either. I having to raise my 3 children as a single parent, I found many ways to deal with teaching them to better themselves and to control their anger, as it is a parents role to teach and encourage children. not to harm them. I have a son who is 7 who has AD/HD , Pervasive Devlopmental Disorder, ODD and Behavior conduct disorder. I was trying to find many ways to parent him,,I have a method I do with all 3 of my children that was brought to my attention by my sons therapist,which does wonders for all children, its called 123 magic,I gotten alot of bad comments from other parents on it, because they say it didnt work,,well thats bs,,it works if you apply it. and it is all psychological. I do the time out, I dont argue with my childern, and I talk to them, show I care and understand why they are misbehaving or "acting up" and with all my methods..my son with the disorders, needs not any medications,,I dont believe in putting chemicals into a child just because the parent cannot handle them. I watch my children grow, and learn and I am so proud of my accomplishments. AS I grew up- I was raised with violence. my mother abused me. I had bruises and pains that was not visable that I carry to this day, I had no respect for my mother. my father was never home, so he never seen this,,but he was agreement to physical punishment as well. so it wouldnt have mattered. I used to run away alot. started at age 4. I see children who have parents who inflict pain it kills me inside. I know what its like. ALso I dont ever attemp to correct my children if I am angered, I wait til I am calm then I approach them. ppl see this and think I am ignoring the situation, no i am not, I see the situation but I do not deal with it til I am level headed and able to talk to my children. yes I have a 3 year old,,how do you talk to a toddler? its possible,,just dont use lengthy conversations,,their attention span is very short,plus there is use of time out, I stand my 3 year old in the corner- a minute for each year of her age. I seen parents ask,,but what if your child refuses time out,,screams a fights,,well thats where you make it your priorty to place them your self in time out,,even if you have to sit with them to insure that they remain in time out. sometimes I let my kids go to their rooms and let out their anger..they have the need to do say just like us,,I talk to my kids while calm and explain that when they feel up set or angry,,they are not to hurt anyone or them selfs. quiet time is good and I give them tons of paper and crayons.. they become very good artists..lol. they also see how we as parents reacts to situations,,they pick up on actions and take and copy that into their own ways of reacting. Dont get me wrong,,it isnt as easy as it seems, I have many moments that I want to ripp my hair out and scream to the heavens. but not in fromt of my kids. oh how I learned to control my emotions,,and keep a straight face,,I found it almost as hard as labor as times,,lol. oh now I have had my times of where I did loose my temper I yelled, yes I did, I cryed. I felt a failure,,I still at times feel a faliure. but I look at my kids an see, no I accomplished something great.oh one more thing, my kids hate being grounded. so guess what method I use..lol

AK

In low educated familes violence against children is more often than on higher educated familes. Since education and IQ is related to each other....

Hi All.

I'll take counter point here. Prove it Haffo. Is your assertion based on percentages or flat numbers? Or is it just something you "thunk up?" I'm guessing the later, but, I could be wrong. Doubt it.

Also, I hate to mention this, but your grammar AND spelling is skewed. IQ, education, and violence being related all, well . . .
😉

"In low educated familes violence against children is more often than on higher educated familes. Since education and IQ is related to each other...."

Let me help you out lol.

"In low educated 'families,' violence against children 'occurs' more often than 'in' higher educated 'families.' Since education and IQ 'are' related to each other . . .

Does this mean there's a high probability you're abusive??

VirgoSquared

Hi!

AquarianKisses you are so spot on about difficulties that you mentioned. I too have found the time out mettod very effective, though there are lots of heartbreak & tears involved in it. Butt spanking, striking lightly across the face, making the child feel guilty are shortcut methods that has immediate desired effect. The long term sonsequences of it involve more time spent in reparing certian emotional damage on the child. The child can get clingy, or do things to test the parent & gain assurance that the parent still loves him/her despite the spanking.

Every human being resists rules being imposed on them & in a child this resistance is the strongest. One has to view dsicplining hte child form this aspect & help the child to overcome the resistance by understanding his/her individual personality. For example: some children respond well to logical explanation, some respond well when made to feel like a leader etc. For this atleast one parent has to give time. Unless sufficient time is given it is not easy to understnad the child's unique personality. Remember children feel more loved when they are given time & understanding & not merely presents. And laying down boundarie gives them a sense of security which is essential for their growth. Plus a child wants to knwo that they are cared for. For example: if a child asks for choclate during meal time & if we refuse them outright. their resistence increases. But if we tell them that they will ahve the big choclate if they finish their meal..then they feel that we understnad their need & slowly they are ready to understnad the importance of having nutritious meals. Agian this task will not be ahieved immediately. takes time. But it works.

About education & IQ being inter-related, is altogether a differnt study. We can find people with high IQ haivng less education all around us. Agreed high education gives refinement & we can hence conclude that refined minds donot resort to violence. But control over violent tendencies require spiritual strentgh which comes with awareness & for which it is not higher education is needed..but the right kind of education. People may never receive formal education and yet maybe very non-violent due to strong spiritual grounding.

Violence is normal in a little children but not in adults. This is because children have not yet learned to effectively assert themselves & hence that's the best way they can express . As parents we help them to overcome use of violence by teaching them how to vent out their frustration without resorting to violence.

Low educated people has more social problems than highly educated people. One of the biggest problems is unemployment. Long unemployment periods brings alot of family violence, which is mostly show him self as violence against children.

Yes Haffo I agree with that one. Socio-Economic Problems like unemployment results in high level frustration & results in child abuse. Now this is just one of the reasons in some cases. If we notice it more often among low educated & unemplyed group is becuase we can see it. In many cases child abuse is due to personality disroder of the parent. If practised among the highly educated and people with good income levels home-- it gets suppressed as people in such affluent groups tend to keep their personal life very private. Today there is so much consciousness against child abuse that people(whatever their education level or economic status) make special effeorts to heal themselves so that they have control over violent tendencies. So the reason for child abuse could be multi-dimensional.

An interesting article:

http://portal.unesco.org/education/en/ev.php-URL_ID=3359&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html

There is link to PDF file in the bottom of page.

Haffo thanx for the URL. I have bookmarked it. Will read it in leisure.🙂

I do not agree with haffo, about it being related to to ecuation or IQ. one fact.,,is you may not see it the so called higher education or IQ related familes- they hide the abuse alot more. this has been going on for decades. they can abuse the child and then have the money to pay for therapy,,or pay the child off to keep quite. I have seen this soo many times,,,all I do is keep my mouth shut and eyes and ears open. also abuse can come from the abusers upbringin. thats been failed to be mentioned. and they can be the most educated person, but that dont neccessarily have anything to do with child abuse. it may seem that the statistics are on the lower side of education,,and how many ppl have they reviwed for that? not enough to see the actual difference. I can vouch for familes that I have personally seen this abuse in,,yet the familes dont like to call it that, and some are drs. some are lawyers, some legal representatives. some law enforcement. some nurses. I wonder could it be also location? not relating money or education?
Ty Looney, I feel that love and patience with a child makes a huge difference. my mom who abused me,,now sayd,,after she reformed I guess...that a child should not fear theor parent but respect them - major difference in having a child respond to you.
now you mentioned about chocolate after dinner, you knwo what my daughter would do,,and she has.,,lol say,,ok imdone with dinner,, chocolate now please,lol. or she will not eat. no chocote either, but knwoning she dont get that candy, she still refuses to eat. lol she thinks she will battle me,,lol so my daughter fell asleep with her face in her food. LOL guess who won,,lol she trys each day to figure out new schemes to get chocolate at the dinner table,,lol.
OK yea one more thing about the income levels, I do think its the individual and their ability to handle situations. you can see it more in the lower,,only because it is more visable. those who hide it better dont mean they are smarter they are actually same level as those who dont hide it. either way, its a process that will continue to happen in numerous familes . I so wish there was something that could be done to eliminate the abuse. but ,,,even calling authorities they dont always help esp with the emotional abuse,,,they figure if they cant see it then they cant help. BS!.
oh and about me and my teaching methods, can you guess my education level or income? lol\


AK 🙂

PS sorry if theres typos

Just because one is "unemployed" does not mean one forgoes the responsibility of controlling ones thoughts, actions, reactions, and emotions.

Also, (quoted from STD):
"...abusive or unjust exercise of power..."
-what is considered abuse? isnt it a realative term?
-what is unjust exercise of power? isnt it a relative term?

AquarianKisses thanx for your objetive insight! I have faced the same situation with my children. Where each day they would come up with new tricks to get the choclate & forgo the meal. LOL . Now my youngest one practices it. And i have to hold my tears back while letting him go without the meal..knowing fully well how hungry he would be. But he doesnt go to sleep without having milk. So what I do is keep some artistically sliced salads on plate on the coffee table. He chomps on them delightedly!!!Or prepare a milk sahke and stroll aroound the neighbourhood b4 he sleeps. My older ones thankfully outgrew that "I first want choc " phase very quickly. Yes it is actually a phase. They outgorw it as their energy & calorie
requirements increase. And also the school teacher plays a very big role in instilling the sense of nutrition in the child.

And yes location also plays a role in the way parents discipline their children.

Looney, thankyou, I try to give some thoughts.lol. I think thats a good idea of keeping lil snack thats healthy. I have my kids hooked on apples lol..my boys come home from school and are immediatly starving- of course. and straight to the stock of apples I keep, I also keep other fruits. they now do not whine about candy like they used to when they was younger. cept my daughter, so not only tries for the chocoalte, but she loves gum, which I dont want her having. thanks to grandma, she gets candy and gum when she is there. I have had many disputs with my mother over this. Yes I know what you mean about feeling awful because your child has to forgo a meal, but if they are truly hungry they will eat whats been set for them. I have had many times of wanting to cry and just give in, but thats something they pick up on, manipulation and control. and I still sometimes battle that "giving in" at times. I just keep remindin my self it will be rewarding later on . you can do this. lol I just hope my children pass on the qualities I am trying to install in them onto their own children if they have their own family one day--one day far far from when they move out..lol
about the location concerning children, I have viewed that the location does play a part, as you had agreed looney. I have also seen that if a parent lives around others who parent their children in certain ways,,they pick up on the behavior. like for instance, you have a friend, or relative who has a pattern they use, it soon weaves its way onto your parenting. and if more parents used a better system around each other- wouldnt it soon rub off on others? maybe its something that "I" just noticed. along with bad neighborhoods and communities. It is sad though that there are these types of living, and the children have to endure this life style - but if your a low income with good parenting skills yet have to live in a lower value of town, your also looked down on. hmm just a thought.

AK🙂

LOL Parallax

i believe in spanking but different things work on different kids so dont feel bad. spanking on the butt only!

sometimes a loud noise has to be created for hte kid to know thta one means business. Spanking though harmless becomes less effective as the child grows. So again comunication-verbal & understandign wins out anyday. Speaking form experience.

🙂 Mama will surely come to your rescue if you promise to be a good boy.