Controlling Individuals

I enjoy meeting and knowing lots of different people and having light no strings attached acquaintances. I suppose you could say it's an aquarian trait I definitely possess. So being as I am somewhat sociable I find myself every now and then becoming friends with really controlling people which irritates the shit out of me.

One modus operandi that I notice is quite common amoung contollers is gift giving where I am inundated with gifts which are excessive and uncalled for which makes me feel both obliged to showing my appreciation and respect to them by spending extra hours in their company and also by making me feel extra awkward and hesitant about having a talk with them to put them straight on any misunderstanding they may have about the level of our friendship.

Another aspect of the controller personality is that they will make you commit to engagements way in advance so that you find yourself saying yes to an invitation because you can't think of a plausible excuse to get out of it and also that they will broach the invitation subtly so that it seems that there is no reasonable answer you can think of except the one that acquiesces.

One cancer guy I was friends with bahved in the above ways and I ended up having to simply ignore his daily emails and avoid him as much as I could. I dealt with him by acting really dumb and I guess my aquarian evasive came in handy because I would be able to dodge any probing questions he might ask.

I am experiencing another controller at the moment and when it's currently happening I find that I to and fo between thinking that I have him all wrong and that he's just a genuinely generous person to feeling very annoyed by the way that he's making me feel obliged to see him when I actually don't want to.

That reminds me of the third trait common to contollers: they will not admit the real reasons behind their actions, ie that they want you to make a committment to them. They don't admit this but leave you wondering if you are not just imagining things and being really mean minded.

I do think that some controllers may not even be consciously fully aware of the way they behave. That they don't intentionally plan out how they are going to manipulate you and keep you under their thumb.

MD...I think these people who act like this has something to hide. I think that it's an insecurity problem, and they will try their best to bring someone in their circle so if they crash, you will crash too and break their fall. I don't like that type of attitude either, but you are right about them not admitting the real reasons behind their actions, I think this is the reason why they manipulate.

Sad, isn't it?

Anyway whether they are fully aware of the way they are behaving or not, this behavior achieves exactly the opposite of what it is aiming for. I don't think that anyone wants to feel controlled. I think people like to feel that they are consciously choosing to be with the people they are with and because they felt railroaded into it. Once I realise that this person is overstepping the boundaries to casual nature of our friendship without bothering to inform me of their intentions, I then automatically start planning how I am gonna extricate myself from this association.

It is disrespectful to the other person when you cannot admit to your sentiments for them but will do everything except this to coerce them to be with you by using their friendliness and politeness against them.

So basically if you want to be with someone you should respect them and be straught with them and don't even think of controlling them because it is the complete opposite and will only drive them away from you.

Lol! Yeah, but there are always SOMEONE who loves their actions...

leokitten: "on the other hand...could it be that most people actually like to PLAN what they are going to do more than 24 hours in advance...to most people, this is not controlling behavior...it is normal behavior."

Yes! Oh, yes! I do this also! But the problem is that their aim is always a selfish one, and never think about the gain of the one they're manipulating. It's like their treating people like stepping stones to get to their "ultimate" goal.

Heh, only if she likes it kris...

"on the other hand...could it be that most people actually like to PLAN what they are going to do more than 24 hours in advance...to most people, this is not controlling behavior...it is normal behavior."

Leokitten I'm talking about a week or 2 weeks in advance. The guy who's being controlling with me at the moment - I have only known him for about 2 -3 months. I met him in a place that I hang out most weekends. We play chess together and it started out that we would play a game together at this place. Then it ended up that he would call me the day ebfore to see if I would be coming. That then progressing to it becoming suddenly a weekly activity that was compulsory as opposed to casual and optional.
Then it was giving me lots of gifts every time I met him and then he asked me would I like to have something to eat afterwards. To me, having something to eat means grabbing something from the fast food place across the road but he had other ideas and said should he make a reservation for some restaurant nearby. Because the occasion where I was supposed to go out with him I had to back out of because I had already spent 2 hours playing chess with him and needed to go home, I felt that I'd better go have food with him the next time.

So I had the meal with him in the restaurant, he paid even though I insisted as much as I could. Now I just don't want to end up doing anything else with him. If possible I wouldn't mind keeping it just so we play out game of chess but I don't know whether I can keep it on this level without having to talk to him which I don't want to have to do.

The other one is to lay low and avoid him for a few weeks which will also means that I will have to keep away form the place that I used to frequent before I met him. I shouldn't have to do this but if it's the only way to get him to unsderstand that I am not interested in whatever hidden agenda he has for me.

Thatsa how aquas do it..we dont really want to hurt your feelings and we have this thing about leaving options open 🙂

"Sad, isn't it?"

BigD it's really intimidating when someone starts doing this. If they're insecure fair enough, but they're completely disrespecting you, the object of their designs,at you and making you feel trapped in a corner where you're not sure if you're being held there by your own wussiness or that you don't want ot have to have a "talk" with them to tell them to back off because you don't want to have to be in this confrontational position with this person who is to you, after all, a casual acquaintance.

"but instead of YOU telling him you do not want to date...now you want to avoid him. is that really fair either?"

Is it fair of him that I should feel in this position in the first place?? If a guy wants to have a relationship with me at the very least they need to have the balls to come right out and say this to me.

Most couples have a moment where this is mutually acknowledged in actual words or actions like touching and kissing. I have done none of this with this guy nor have I led him on in any way whatsoever.

I don't want to have to have this kind of conversation with him. I don't want to hurt him because I know that if a guy had a similar conversation with me, "putting me right on where the land lies" I owuld feel hurt and patronized and rejected. I don't want to feel driven to have to say this to him.

Also he's pretty old, in his 50's I think. I am not even sure it is a romantic attachment he wants with me.

What I don't understand, MD, is that if these people of whom you talk make you feel out-of-control of YOURSELF, then why associate with them?

This makes no sense to me .. you said, "Once I realise that this person is overstepping the boundaries to casual nature of our friendship without bothering to inform me of their intentions, I then automatically start planning how I am gonna extricate myself from this association."

This is to mean, that if they aren't relating to YOUR terms, then it's deemed inappropriate and you begin to make plans of dis-associating with them, for you said over-stepping boundaries. What boundaries .. yours? People don't over-step thier own boundaries, MD .. they can only over-step anothers. Have they been informed of these boundaries that you charged for yourself?

Do you inform them that this is your plan, to dis-associate? I ask this question because you then said, "So basically if you want to be with someone you should respect them and be straught with them .." Have you held yourself to your same principal and told them of your plan to extricate?

So, if you feel that the other person is controlling you and you think it's inappropriate behaviour to the point of wanting to stop associating with them and in so doing, you make secret plans to stop relating with them, without informing them that this is your intention, then doesn't that make you not respect them, you're not being straight with them?

This seems completely contridictory .. in other words, if YOU aren't in control of them, then it's disrepectful to you?

"I don't think that anyone wants to feel controlled." I absolutely agree.

"I think people like to feel that they are consciously choosing to be with the people they are with and because they felt railroaded into it." So, exactly who is in control of your life .. you or them? You want control, but dont have it .. so you feel like you're being railroaded into it?

You speak of others controlling you .. maybe they do so because it appears that you are struggling with your own and feel the need to help you because if you say "yes" out of obligation, when you really meant, "no", and continue to relate to people because you feel railroaded into it .. then maybe learning control is what you need and they are simply trying to help you.

It's funny that the queen of manipulation, a pisces woman, would analyse (wrongly) what I've been saying.

"if these people of whom you talk make you feel out-of-control of YOURSELF, then why associate with them?"

That's why I'm thinking of how I can dis-associate myself from him.

"What boundaries .. yours? People don't over-step thier own boundaries, MD .. they can only over-step anothers. Have they been informed of these boundaries that you charged for yourself? "

The normal boundaries between two poeple who don't know eachother on a more personal level than meeting up once a week to play a game of chess. I think this boundary is pretty clearly demarkated.

"you make secret plans to stop relating with them, without informing them that this is your intention, then doesn't that make you not respect them, you're not being straight with them?"

I do not respect someone who is playing a game with me and doesn't have the courtesy to at least put their card on the table from the beginning. I respected him by being polite and couteous with him and taking him at his word. He took advantage of my courtesy to put me in this position. I would be fine meeting him every odd weeekend to play chess but he keeps pushing it and unless I have an unpleasant conversation with him which I don't want to do I have to avoid him.

"maybe learning control is what you need and they are simply trying to help you."

If he had control he would have no hesitations in coming right out and stating his objectives with me. If he wanted to help me, he might objectively think about what he wants himself.

...and if he actually wants to be with me in an intimate level then surely he would come out and say this, make it clear, tell me how he feels, ask me how I feel. In other words take it from mind games and tactics to being clear. I shouldn't have to be clear by taking him aside and saying that I am not interested in him in a romantic sense because as far as I am concerned this is the basis of our acquaintance. This is clear. And I would not put it past these types of people to outright deny it all if I actually did have a talk with him. Say he didn't know what I was talking about, that it is all in my mind.

"I do not respect someone who is playing a game with me"

I certainly understand that .. however ..

"I think this boundary is pretty clearly demarkated"

You think this .. that doesn't mean he, or anybody else thinks it's clear, especially if you are saying "yes, when you mean "No" .. how clear is that?

Think about it.

🙂

Ok yes I agree with you that accepting any invitations could well be interpreted by him as me also affirming my interest in him as a romantic interest (I don't fancy this guy in any way whatsoever). So form now on I am just gonna decline whatever he invites me to. I might invent an imaginary boyfriend as a back up excuse for not being available. It's a lie I'd rather not tell but I guess I'll have to.

Like I said I'm not sure at all whether he is actually romantically intersted in me or if he's just a controlling person with everyone he knows. Either way I can't handle behaviour like this.

On a side note, controlling behaviour actually gets in the way of true intimacy between people. Because the controller cannot admit the other person beyond the facade used to get people to do what they want. It goes against honesty.

This is one of the age-old problems in all relationships, sometimes even with just plain friendships, or with family members .. communication !!!!

Certainly, we've all encountered something similiar and the answer is always right in front of our face .. we've ALL felt discouraged because somebody isn't adhereing to our standards of relating .. however, everybody's standards are different and one CANNOT be held to our standard if they have not been informed of it .. does that make sense?

Sometimes, insinuations are taken the wrong way .. sometimes silence is taken the wrong way .. this is normal because if the communication isn't there, we have no choice except to guess at intentions.

Anyway, good luck and I hope you find your answers.

🙂

"however, everybody's standards are different and one CANNOT be held to our standard if they have not been informed of it .. does that make sense?"

It makes sense in general but not in this case. Because there is a default standard of behavior amoung people who don't know eachother except on a fairly superficial way. The default is that you don't understand from someone engaging in a game of chess with you to mean anything over and beyond what it is. YOU ie the controller - is being delusional.

I agree that in actual relationships (intimate ones) there are boundary issues that are not clear at all and they need to be mutually discussed and understood.

This is different. This is somone taking it on themselves to get me to commit to agreeing to see him every week to play chess. Anyway I have started to make excuses for not going and also when he asks me to go out to other things like concerts, dinner dates, I have declined. I feel bad like I'm disappointing him which is silly. I have considered that maybe he may just be a very organised person who likes to have a firm agenda (in the other sense of the word!) of what he is doing each day. But he keeps pushing it by asking me to bigger things. And the gifts are inappropriate too. I;ve told him to stop doing this but it makes no difference.

I just resent people who do this. It's a neurosis in them.

On the subject of boundaries and making assumptions, it's funnily ironic that up until last month I was having a sexual relationship with a man who made me feel unsure of even assuming that I might be able to call him during the week or if I might annoy him if I do this. This scenario is totally on the other side of the spectrum of mistaken boundaries and whatnot!!

After re-reading this, another question popped into my head that I don't understand.

If by admission of being an Aquarian trait, and confirmed by other Aqua's as to is accuracy .. it is in the nature to be evasive, rather than confront an issue .. how can a conclusion then be made that the other is controlling?

To "handle" a situation WOULD seem controlling if one party has avoided it, would it not? That makes no sense to me.

If a person (Aqua) doesn't want another person to be in control of a situation, then why be evasive?

Is that not setting yourself up to be controlled?

Certainly, I understand with this man, MD .. inappropriate gifts, which my Piscean imagination has run wild with 😛 .. would make me extremely leary too.

Very organized? Sounds Virgo.

Anyway, I'm just trying to understand the logic .. that's the reason for all the questions.

If this man was my boyfriend or knew me on a more personal level then I wouldn't just avoid him but have it out with him. It is due to him only being a *casual* acquaintance that I prefer to avoid him. He doesn't mean more to me than an acquaintance. Even by talking to try to put him right is bestowing on him more significance than he has as a close friend of mine.

When I say inappropriate I don't mean kinky or anything. Just overly generous. Like books and CDs and DVDs every time I meet him. He is a nice person too. It'd be great if it appeared he have other people to lavish his attention and interest and money in.

MD - i think the problem is the way you think of it...

1st , the cancer guy will not force you, if you don't want to be with him (i mean like rejecting his invitations,is fine.)

2nd, if you have problem of thinking of what is his intention into you, then ASK HIM? So atleast you know where both of you stand.

3rd, i believe his intention is not manipulating or controlling you, it is just the way he is, because obviously he wants you or likes you.

I didn't do this post to ask for advice on how I should put this guy straight. I was actually touching on the subject of controlling people more in a general sense. As in how they behave, why they behave like this, their motivations as opposed to the consequences of their controlling behaviour.

Sweetbabes about the cancer guy, I had to stop all contact with him because I did put him staright that I wasn't intersted in him in that way and he said that although he was upset by how I had changed my tune (I kissed him and that was as far as it got), he proceeded to tell how much it had hurt him, how he didn't think he could remain in contact with me, then changed his mind and said that he still enjoyed my friendship...all this through constant text messages. I humoured him as I thought that as he was obviously a very sensitive perosn then maybe if I let him get it all out he might get over it and be cool. But he didn't and he sent me daily emails and texts and gave me pretty big expensive gifts. It made me feel very uneasy and I felt like not accepting them but I thought that it would offend him big time.

So I had to just ignore him in the end to get away from his behaviour.

The main point I am making is that these people have a problem because being like this drives people away from them.

MD - being a Pisces I am naturally a fly by the seat of my pants person and although I don't mind the occassional pre-booked activity, a person who takes up all of my life can end up making me feel obligated to say yes. I don't think they intend to, and like leokitten mentioned earlier, for some it is just a matter of being organised. I just say yes, because I don't like hurting anyone's feelings, then end up being flighty because I don't turn up, usually because it's booked too far ahead and I forget (too busy imaging myself on a nice tropical holiday). It seems hard to get a balance and needless to say, most of my friends are just as last minute as me and it suits me fine.

I'm like that too Skin but the controlling behaviour I've been trying to describe above is not the same as just being organised. Being organised does not get under my skin someone who has some other agenda but won't won up to it and come clean.

It would be so much easier if people like this stopped being so devious and underhanded and just told the other person how they feel about them so that it would be up front.

MD - As long as, you have told him already about how feel for him, then you are in the right tract of ignoring him. Just leave as it is, he will stop of his uncontrollable emotions for you.

Well MD, if you straight out told them where they stand, you are left with no choice to tell them to get off at the next stop.
🙂

"I can't tune-out a controller, because I always push back. I hate being that way, and I wish I could just let it roll off my back...but...I'm just not cut out that way."

Nothing wrong with that aguaaqi. Lately I've been "pushing back" myself. It can be quite counter-productive. Oy, controlling people. Why you gotta be that way? I've got a few close by, and they can be a real annoyance to my freedom-loving spirit.


Actually I think I know why they "gotta be that way." It's the evil little rock formerly known as the planet Pluto. Check it out, if you know how to analyze charts. My father, for example, is an Aqua Sun and Aqua Moon. Free as free can be right? Live and let live, like me? Nadda. He's got Sun opposition Pluto. And he is one controlling dude, if you let him be.

Of course if you don't really believe in astrology that much (ie society has trained you well), there are many other ways to analyze/type people that can produce the same insights in a more scientifically-accepted fashion. The MBTI (especially) and Enneagram are two that I've become quite interested in as of late.

Yeah actually the guy whose controlling ways prompted me to do this topic is an aquarius. MIA your Pluto theory sounds interesting although I don't knwo enough about the interplay of planets in astrology to analyze it from this point of view. But that's not cos society has trained me too well 😛

MIA - I too am interested in MBTI, can you recommend any web sites?

"with the gift giving, I'd feel like I were being bribed in a sense....emotional blackmail as it were, so that they can turn around and say "oh but I did this for you and got you that" which I am soooo not into."

That's just how I feel about it as well. I feel like every time I'm presented with these grand gestures of gifts, I feel like it's by way of a deposit for me feeling obliged to see him again. Me, because I feel beholden to him by having these gifts thrust on my, him because as a token of his generosity and "thoughtfulness", why wouldn't I want to spend every weekend with him. Even saying it sound really mean because as I said he's a nice and pleasant person but the regalarity with which he bombards me with gifts and expects me to be available to spend 3/4+ hours with him every week is violating my freedom of choice.

So break ties with him? Yes I guess, it's just much easier said than done because when someone is very polite and firendly like this it is very easy to think that I'm the one being the total bitch here.

If it comes to a friendship with a male, I am pretty blunt, if I'm not interested then friendship is fine; but anything else is just not going to happen, let me introduce you to some of my single female friends who also have friends . . . . .

Skin,
Here is test (scroll down)
http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/mmdi-re/mmdi-re.htm

General info
http://similarminds.com/personality_tests.html (lots of tests here too)
http://www.personalitypage.com/info.html

Basically I just use google (and my undying thirst for knowledge 🙂.



"But that's not cos society has trained me too well" -- Rock n roll

Thank you MIA, will check them out.

I never give gifts.