Ophiuchus modality?

Posted by SpecsThaMasta
Exactly. Which I go by my ACTUAL sign. Ophiuchus. It is what it is. You wanna believe in 12 sign astrology. Whatevs. I don't care. There are rare individuals who got a bang to their pow. It's not like the Leo's flashiness. Nor the Scorpio's intensity. But more so is extensive and like a Boss type. They go out with a bang. Walter White types. Samuel L Jackson in Pulp Fiction Types. Etc.

Posted by clay

Posted by SpecsThaMasta
14 and 13 sign astrology?

What's the 14 sign astrology? There's also something between Taurus and Gemini?

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Posted by Rosaknowsya

Posted by Cancan26
none...and I will tell you why people reject ophiuchus ....astrology says every signs has a modality, element, and opposite --without this things ophiuchus really shouldn't be considered

opposites

aries vs libra

taurus vs scorpio

gemini vs saggie

cancer vs capricorn

pisces vs virgo

leo vs aqua

**************************************************************************************************************

elements

fire

aries

leo

saggie

water

scorpio

cancer

pisces

air

gemini

aqua

libra

earth

taurus

virgo

cappie

*****************************************************************************************************

modality

fixed

scorpio

taurus

leo

aqua

cardinal

cancer

cappie

aries

libra

mutable

virgo

gemini

saggie

pisces

Is that not how it's always been though?

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Posted by Dastard
Fuck Ophiuchus. I'm still a Sag.

Posted by Rosaknowsya

Posted by SpecsThaMasta
I know a lot of people reject the 14 and 13 sign astrology. But speaking theoretically. Which modality would Ophiuchus be?

Fixed, Mutable, or Cardinal?

What is this talk?

What exact dates and year did this become real?

Go ahead and do the Google research.

Pretty sure it only pertains to those born after a certain year but I'm too lazy to gaf.

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Posted by SpecsThaMasta
I know a lot of people reject the 14 and 13 sign astrology. But speaking theoretically. Which modality would Ophiuchus be?

Fixed, Mutable, or Cardinal?

Posted by bumboklatt
i think the modality system would be broken as there would not be a balance

Posted by littlenanobyte
I looked up a picture of Cetus and it's a fucking narwhal mermaid, I'm SOLD AF

Posted by Montgomery

Posted by SpecsThaMasta
I know a lot of people reject the 14 and 13 sign astrology. But speaking theoretically. Which modality would Ophiuchus be?

Fixed, Mutable, or Cardinal?

Transient.

Like Cedus.

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Posted by SpecsThaMasta

Posted by Montgomery

Posted by SpecsThaMasta
I know a lot of people reject the 14 and 13 sign astrology. But speaking theoretically. Which modality would Ophiuchus be?

Fixed, Mutable, or Cardinal?

Transient.

Like Cedus.

So you mean. There would be a 4th modality? Called Transient? That would actually patch up the symmetry. Because as it stands 3 modalities is an odd number.

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Posted by Vulcansfire
Idc what you believe. I am not for the New"er" Age Astrology. I was born a Sagittarius at December 11. That's the way it stays.

Posted by Montgomery
Yes and no. I don't really buy into Ophiuchus (serpent) and Cetus (sea pig) theory. However, I can concede that sometimes these descriptions may fit the bill and be necessary, but rarely and only for a minute-- then it's back to normal.



Kind of like we have Leap years to make the calendar fit properly in time--just not so often.

Posted by canmini

Posted by Dastard
Fuck Ophiuchus. I'm still a Sag.

actually you are Ophiuchus if you follow the real constelation

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Posted by canmini

Posted by Dastard
Fuck Ophiuchus. I'm still a Sag.

actually you are Ophiuchus if you follow the real constelation

click to expand

Posted by Season
If Chiron rules Ophiuchus what rules Cedus?

Posted by cesspool
celestial longitude- look it up.

anyway, ophiuchus and cetus have no modalities, but their elements are spirit and spirit/water, respectively.

Posted by Shadowcat
It doesn't pertain to anything. NASA doesn't know or care about astrology

Posted by clay
What are the dates for Cetus?

Posted by bumboklatt
the whole "the sun wasnt in a certain constellation at your time of birth" is a new age "scientific" discovery astrology doesent work well with traditional science, because astrology works with belief and things we do not understand (cant measure)

Traditional Western Astrology has its own set of rules theres a thing called "processional slippage" that tries to defend western astrology from NASA and from 13th 14th signs it basically says that when Astrology was developed a "snapshot" of the universes energies was taken so regardless of the earth tilting or shifting etc, the sign does not change its influence

Posted by clay
There are 12 signs and 48 starry constellational sub-influences.

Period

Posted by NobleSag
From the waist down, I'm a beast.

I didn't choose the sag life, the sag life chose me.

sure do love makin excuses in the same way Christians and Muslims do. Every time someone pokes a hole in their bullshit they just shift the goal posts, twist interpretations, re-invent parts of it, etc.

Never is the whole thing outright wrong tho, right?

If it was any sort of truth. You couldnt do that. For instance people used to believe the Earth was flat and that it was the center of the solar system. They no longer believe that, no longer claim that, because it was wrong. There are some rare crackpots that try to skew all the current facts to defend those old world beliefs. But we all know they are just clinging onto wrong ass beliefs.

Posted by Shadowcat
It doesn't make any sense, because astronomy and astrology are vastly different.

But they intersect on certain points. That you are bluntly ignorin. Such as the placement of the planets. Literally the Sun sign is the sign that was PHYSICALLY in alignment with the sun. The Moon sign is the sign the moon was physically in alignment with. The Rising is which one was on the physical horizon and the Midheaven was which sign was physically above the Earth/Up in the sky.

Posted by Shadowcat
No only that, but you completely ignore the fact that Vedic astrology goes by the current constellation placements and that Western astrology goes by seasons. And this isn't new, it's not astrology's fault that neither NASA or you know that. But frankly, NASA doesn't know because it doesn't give a fuck. Astrologers already told them that Western astrology went by seasons, yet only a few years later they circulate this bullshit again.

Um... what the fuck you talkin about?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_astrology

"Western astrology is largely horoscopic, that is, it is a form of divination based on the construction of a horoscope for an exact moment, such as a person's birth, in which various cosmic bodies are said to have an influence. Astrology in western popular culture is often reduced to sun sign astrology, which considers only the individual's date of birth (i.e. the "position of the Sun" at that date)."

All Western astrology is, is a bastardization of Vedic astrology. Its not really based on anything at all. Its completely made up because its the astrology where "horoscopes" are involved which we all know is not real and Astrology is boiled down to only the Sun Sign. Which again. Sun Sign BY DEFINITION means the sign that was in alignment with the sun at the time of your birth.

In terms of "Tropical Astrology" just basing it off the sun by itself doesn't even make sense. The "Signs" are constellations in the first place. Aries is a constellation in the sky, first and foremost. The whole point to Vedic Astrology using those names was literally bluntly to say that you were born under that constellation. Without the constellations its not even astrology period.

Hell goin into it further. Even if you remove the term Aries from association of the constellation. What is there to actually differentiate Aries from Libra? Theres nothin in the physical universe that is different at that point. At least in relevant context. In context its based on JUST the sun right? Not based on its alignment with the constellations? So in that case, what differentiates the "placement" of say Aries and Libra? The sun isn't really positioned all that differently at both times of the year. There's a slight tilt but that is it and ignoring constellations that slight tilt only differentiates 2 halves of the zodiac. Not each individual sign. Beyond that axis tilt... the sun ultimately stays in the same alignment with the Earth.

It is Earth that moves around the sun, it is the Earth that moves and it does so in a way that basically from our perspective almost nothing changes over the year. While the earth is moving around the sun, the fact that it is doing so in a circle and that it rotates along that circle means we are always facing it the same way we always do. Beyond that slight tilt.

In Vedic astrology what you have to measurably differentiate is the fact that which Constellation is in alignment with the Sun and Earth, changes drastically across 14 individual and unique Constellations.

But youre basically saying that human personality is dictated and differentiated... by nothing? Because there is barely anything measurable across "The Seasons" that could invoke much variance in human personality. Temperature hardly changes. Main differences are yet again at the 2 extreme ends of the yearly routine. Just like the tilt, this would only "divide"/differentiate the different Signs down the half. Not each and every. What you should expect in this case is that. Everybody of 1 half of the zodiac. Aries, Taurus, etc would all have the same personality traits. and then the other half of the zodiac would be different from the first half, but all individuals of the second half of the signs would also all have the same personality traits. Not each individual one where you can say "Aries are Brash and Hotheaded", "Taurus are Stubborn and Strong Willed", etc. But rather "Aries, Taurus, Gemini, etc are all simultaneously X qualities while Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius are all simultaneously Y qualities".

And again Tropical/Western Astrology has to throw out all other placements. Moon, Rising, Juno, Asteroids, Venus, etc. Because if you just base it on "seasons" and/or just the placement of the Sun in regards to Earth. Then all those other placements dont even exist at all. So in Tropical Astrology, there should be no Charts. If there is, then thats basically just a vestigial remnant of Vedic Astrology and somethin that no longer serves any functional purpose at all. Kinda like some human organs lmao

Posted by Shadowcat
Nasa's academic knowledge about planets isn't what we're debating. They're scientists, if I want to know when Jupiter will die, then yeah I'll look up a NASA article. But when it comes down to it, NASA is not an authority on astrology and they never should be .

Do they know about planets? Yes. But in relation to their supposed affect on personality? No.......because they don't care. An average astronomer or astrophysicist couldn't even tell you what a moon sign is. Because that's not their field of study, period.

The thing is. I dont even know why you are trying to bring up Western Astrology. Im pretty sure the reason Scientists ignore it is because they take it even less seriously than Vedic Astrology. I don't even know why you are bringing it up? As if it is the astrology you go by? Because that is just plain ridiculous. You should know better. You should know how horribly made up and false it is in respect to REAL Astrology. Western Astrology is just a bastardization of Vedic Astrology, made by the mindless masses being total shills. Thats all and if that isnt convincing enough for you then all you have to do is look above where I picked Western Astrology apart to see that it makes no fucking sense period.

The fact is that Astrology is a claim about the physical universe too. Which you intellectually-dishonestly try to avoid and deny. Even here you mention Moon signs even though thats a purely Vedic Astrology thing. Western/Tropical Astrology doesn't have Charts. i mean it might... but it shouldnt. Because an Astrology Chart is a PLACEMENT thing. You can't ascribe Rising and Midheaven to just the location of the sun. At that point youre just seriously raping the shit out of Vedic astrology. Because as explained above the Sun itself cannot explain all that nuance and variance that Vedic astrology supplies. The slightest inch of the Suns position will not radically affect a species' personality, emotions, purpose, etc and all that shit.

Posted by Shadowcat
As to the studies, astrology belongs in the category of metaphysics for a reason. There isn't a lot of proof backing it up(although being able to pin down personality is something that psychology hasn't even achieved yet, an actual science), it's mostly faith supported, there's a distinct lack of guidelines for it(a la being a pseudoscience) and ultimately it's more of a spirituality.

But I'm going to stay on topic.

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Human personality is not fuckin metaphysics or spiritual. You are presentin a false dichotomy by sayin science hasnt at all explained and pinned down personality. MBTI while not the most unambiguous theoretical model, still has plenty of success in tests for predictin certain things. It even helps psychologists treat mental patients. Not only that but if Science didnt understand personality at all then psychology wouldnt work at all. But it does, it has plenty of success. It is more chaotic and barbaric compared to other modern sciences. But it does work.

Everything science does in regards to personality has vastly better odds at predicting and handling personality than the 50/50 prayer odds that Astrology of any kind gets in studies. Recently speaking. Psychology has been gettin trumped. But you know by what? Neuroscience. An even MORE Materialistic approach. It is no surprise that yet again a materialistic approach ends up proving to be the superior method out of all other methods. Yet philosophers will debate on end over whether or not our universe is materialistic.

If you have to resort to Metaphysics and Spirituality to explain Human Personality. You are really reaching for straws.

Posted by Shadowcat
And then angrily insisting that everyone stop believing in souls because your doctor said so. I mean he's a doctor and he studies the body, it's a fucking job and your soul is in your body right(Depending on what you believe)? So he must be absolutely qualified to make that judgement.

Posted by Shadowcat
You're clinging onto this idea so much that you want to ignore the rules and the system set jn place by astrology. Astrologers reject the 14 sign zodiac because it doesn't make sense, the two additional signs throw off the balance and that is that. But you don't care about that. You're too busy getting angry at a belief system for not fitting into a mold created by a science. BECAUSE IT IS A BELIEF SYSTEM.

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Tropical/Western astrology does include moon, mercury, venus, rising, and asteroids.

Which I acknowledged. By sayin "it might have charts" I meant that I knew it did. Which is why I went on to explain in excruciatin detail why it makes no fuckin sense at all.

This is still true even though I didnt know...

"The Western Zodiac is drawn based on the Earth's relationship to fixed, designated positions in the sky, and the Earth's seasons."

...That tha other placements were explained by arbitrary fixed designated spots. You realize theres clearly a hidden agenda here? Because Western/Tropical Astrologists clearly just pulled that out of their asses to cover up tha fact that it can no longer stick to placements based on tha actual physical alignments of tha planets and constellations in tha first place?

This "explanation" came way after tha whole Ophiuchus and Cetus shizz became a thing.

So tha reason im not goin to accept it as valid and im going to shove more of that "god complex" down your throat. Is because you cannot fuckin deny that it is literally just people makin shit up. 12 sign astrology and Vedic astrology used to be one in tha same. Before "Tropical" astrology existed. Then tha earths orbit tilted and tha only way anyone could stick with the 12 sign astrology was to just start makin shit up and backpeddling and callin that "Tropical astrology".

Lets be real here.

To suggest otherwise is to basically go down tha same exact path that bumboklatt tried goin down. In which she went full retard and said "it basically says that when Astrology was developed a "snapshot" of tha universes energies was taken". Thats tha explanation. Tha explanation you are trying to tell me now. That Astrology is just magic. Human personality is dictated by "universal energies" even though thats just retarded woo talk for a one hundred percent undeniable fact.

Because how else would arbitrarily assigned fixed positions, impact human personality? Why would arbitrary empty/blank points in space impact human personality? They dont. Thats tha point. Because 12 sign/Tropical astrology can no longer use an accurate chart of tha planets, tha only way to make it work is to say tha "placements" themselves are arbitrary and metaphorical for "universal energies" that are all workin their "magix".

Also you wanna know whats more annoying than ignorance? People who bluntly ignore your arguments. Like how you ignored my entire rant goin into extruciatin detail about how and why Tropical astrology aint make no god damn sense.

Popular Astrology(as in the that most people are familiar with) IS basically stripped down to sun sign, so naturally the loads of other important things are left out. Because people want to use it as a party favor, and are mostly disinterested in actually learning about it. But people who do study western astrology generally use all planets, and use the angles(rising, ic, dsc, mc). Most at least dabble in asteriods as well.

What I find absolutely adorable is that you actually think Popular Astrology and Western/Tropical Astrology are 2 seperate things. When tha undeniable truth is that tha popular astrology you describe is merely tha most surface level of popular astrology. Tropical astrology is a product and sub-set of popular astrology.

Its a perversion of Vedic Astrology pulled out of its proponents anuses for tha sake of rationalizin tha rest of tha system in regards to popular astrology. This is a sub-context that even tha Wiki is clearly tryin to get accross with its ambiguous wordin and beatin around tha bush about what exactly "popular astrology" is.

Just because the public is largely ignorant to them(other parts of astrology besides zodiac sign) doesn't mean that Western astrology lacks them.

You are exaggeratin tha ignorance of tha public at large in regards to astrology. There is a LOT of people who express some sort knowledge of tha other placements. Its just that most people dont believe in astrology at all period. For good reason. Most people believe it is complete nonsense or just arent that interested. So they dont even know what exactly a sun sign is. Just that its a sign some crazy loons ascribe to their bday.

THIS IS A WESTERN ASTROLOGY WEBSITE. You're aware of that right? That's why vedic astrology's forum is located after astrology's. Because Western Astrology is the focus of this website.

You know what is also more annoyin than ignorance? When someone asserts their own made up biased bullshit as if it is what was intended by tha people in charge.

This is not an astrology website period. Half of tha main topics may be astrology focused. But there is an equally large half of non-astrology topics. Tha website isnt called anythin in regards to astrology. There is no FAQ or anything explicitly statin "this is an astrology website". Tha only thing we got for whats what is tha TOS which basically just says dont be a dick and this and that. Nothin about astrology.

Tha actual reason that this forum is even as focused on astrology as it is. Is because of its users. It is obvious that whoever is in charge is very flexible in what they want this forum to be. So they go with tha flow. Because so many people here are proponents of astrology and discuss astrology, in other words because astrology is tha hottest topic. That alone is tha only reason tha site is arranged tha way it is.

Now in tha case of Western VS Vedic astrology specifically. Tha reason is because of tha oh so deliciously ironic fact that Western/Tropical Astrology is in fact Popular Astrology. Vedic astrology is even more outside tha domain of public awareness than Tropical astrology. Less known and less popular in general. Plus Tropical astrology is born from tha same motivation as strictly sun sign popular astrology. So dont even try it.

Learn how to read. Astrology is metaphysics, just because I reference psychology's difficulty dealing with personality doesn't mean that I'm calling personality metaphysics. For fucks sake.

You keep doin that. That thing. Right there. Tha thing where you dont recognize tha implications of your own claims. If you are positing that astrology is metaphysics, and you also simultaneously posit that astrology explains human personality. Then that inextricably means that according to you, human personality is metaphysical. Otherwise you are admittin that astrology is just bullshit and doesnt actually explain anythin.

If human personality isnt metaphysical, then it cannot be explained by metaphysics.

I should clarify, I was referring to Psychology's difficulty in completely understanding personality. Especially personality disorders. Never once was I attempting to say that psychology was useless in regards to tha human mind or personality. I'm saying that it lacks a complete/full understanding of it.

And astrology doesnt even understand/explain tha human mind or personality at all. So...

If you don't know anything about western astrology, and are convinced that its bullshit, then why are you here?

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Im not goin to accept your claim that this site is "a western astrology site". For tha above mentioned reasons. Im not even goin to give you that tha individual sign forums are for any specific interpretation of astrology. If I want to talk in tha Aries forum under tha influence of a Vedic interpretation there is nothing on this site sayin im not allowed or supposed to. Tha Vedic astrology forum is just for direct discussion about Vedic astrology unto itself.