grayid2
@grayid2
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Whats the connection between evil...and twins?
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Posted by INTJBullPosted by grayid2
Nothing to do with the idea of "evil twin". Its just, geminis, once you really know em, are pretty darn evil. And their symbol is the Twins.
Actually there could be more to the expression evil twin...
Can you give some examples of how these geminis you know are "evil" I'm a Gem moon/Venus & I don't feel like I'm evil at all, maybe a bit misunderstood at times though.click to expand
Obviously an "evil" person can't perceive themselves as such, they're just smart, and cool, and not complicated about stuff...they have less emotional ties in general.
Every Gemini I met has been evil, even cats...lol
They say the meanest things, with multi-layered insults that you find later...it's just a nightmare lol
Posted by beautifuldiaster
Isn't it the theory behind Cain and Abel? There is a good and a bad, I think with Gemini they are either hidden Well or blended together in outward appearances.
Oh yeah that makes sense.
Geminis have 4 personalities, there's the life of the party, the best friend, the joker, and the little kid 🙂 They tend to know when to show which one.
Propheta, I understand that. Like I explained to INTJBull
dgmw : how long ago as it? did she really clean up her act? so to speak
dgmw : how long ago as it? did she really clean up her act? so to speak
I think Geminis are intimidating to folk who just don't understand them. To me, they are my kryptonite(in a good way) 😉
Posted by TokerXPosted by Moonbutter
I think Geminis are intimidating to folk who just don't understand them. To me, they are my kryptonite(in a good way) 😉
Bow to me! 😉 And we're intimidating? That would explain a lot. But yeah, they just don't understand us. People usually don't look further than outward appearances. 2 Simple examples: I'm usually sitting there, quiet, analysing every detail or stuck in my own little world and people always ask me what's wrong... While I couldn't be happier. But then on Friday I was broken inside and you know what I did. 😉
Anyway, yes we can and will be hurtful, but I at least, have never had the intention to do so.click to expand
True TokerX which is why I always have soft spot for Gems 🙂 anyone can be shitty but its all about the intention(most times). I also hate when people ask if "I'm ok" just because I'm not constantly rambling some nonsense or have a fake happy smile plastered on my face 24/7
Posted by GGPosted by grayid2
Nothing to do with the idea of "evil twin". Its just, geminis, once you really know em, are pretty darn evil. And their symbol is the Twins.
Actually there could be more to the expression evil twin...
There's no connection! I've never heard or read about that.
People on dxp make shi.t up when they're angry.click to expand
Actually, there might be, how often do you hear the expression "evil twin"?
Geminis all claim to have 2 people inside them...
There ya go....
Posted by dontgetmewrong
My sister is a Gem, I understand this all too well. She has a good sweet side, but she can also be manipulative and scheming. She pulled that once on me, when I found out. I put my fist to her face, no talking, just put her in her place. I had all the evidence I needed. I think most Gems just need an ass whopping to set them straight.
+1
There is NO evil twin, I have NEVER said there are two people inside of me. I'm not sure what you all are referring to, but I'm ONE person.
"Whats the connection between evil...and twins?"
never heard of.
never heard of.
Posted by Kjk62Posted by DwellingOnMove
"Whats the connection between evil...and twins?"
never heard of.
People just grabbin at a black n white comparison for the heck of it.
If you ask me there is a ton of depth to a gem as airy ad they can be.
Always trying to bring harmony, ironically. 😄click to expand
Dude you have sun on the ascendant, Leo venus, Aries mars, scorp moon, i'd say you fail to represent the gemini population. I've met plenty and some real fvking geminis in my family. I know what Im talkin bout.
Posted by WateryGem
There is NO evil twin, I have NEVER said there are two people inside of me. I'm not sure what you all are referring to, but I'm ONE person.
Youre a big mix too...but your profile pic says .....gemini.....🙂 LOL!
I have some really close Gem friends for years....dated 2 and 2 really close lady friends are Gems (even the 2 I dated we're still cool as heck). And I can honestly say I've never seen them as being "evil" or conducting themselves in that manner. Yeh...I've seen them hurt & upset & frustrated & mad, but not "evil" where they do things to people viciously or react out of pure hatred. To me their logic is more "sound" (more often times than not) after I've watched & witnessed them analyze whatever situation has gotten under their skin. Yes I've also watched them switch on a dime, but still not from "good" to "evil", usually this has to do with them finding ways of protecting themselves. Sometimes, I think they are more misunderstood and the "perception" may come off as them being "evil". Either way, I personally enjoy them!
^^^^ said the Mercury ruled Virgo. LOL
Gray,
I have my problem with Gemini too. But first I had not heard of the two words in one sentence before.
Second what looks devil may be their mixed behavior.
For example sometimes they point at you in public as the wrong-doer. Other times they don't follow the rules cause they want to be unconventional. Mixed.
Fact is other signs are devil for other reasons. People I found bad/evil in my private life were these:
male Sag/Dragon, male Scorpio/Monkey, female Scorpio/Tiger, female Gem/Monkey, male Pisces/Tiger.
But they may have found me devil too.
Gray,
I have my problem with Gemini too. But first I had not heard of the two words in one sentence before.
Second what looks devil may be their mixed behavior.
For example sometimes they point at you in public as the wrong-doer. Other times they don't follow the rules cause they want to be unconventional. Mixed.
Fact is other signs are devil for other reasons. People I found bad/evil in my private life were these:
male Sag/Dragon, male Scorpio/Monkey, female Scorpio/Tiger, female Gem/Monkey, male Pisces/Tiger.
But they may have found me devil too.
Posted by DwellingOnMove
^^^^ said the Mercury ruled Virgo. LOL
Gray,
I have my problem with Gemini too. But first I had not heard of the two words in one sentence before.
Second what looks devil may be their mixed behavior.
For example sometimes they point at you in public as the wrong-doer. Other times they don't follow the rules cause they want to be unconventional. Mixed.
Fact is other signs are devil for other reasons. People I found bad/evil in my private life were these:
male Sag/Dragon, male Scorpio/Monkey, female Scorpio/Tiger, female Gem/Monkey, male Pisces/Tiger.
But they may have found me devil too.
LOL Dwelling!!! You forgot to add my lovely water Moon ruled "Ascendant" and "Moon" placements. I'm such a lovely mixed bag of assortment candy...lmao! Don't just let my "sun" sign fool ya...lol! But true enuff, I understand Gems, and to your point, I've seen other signs do "evil" things to other people, (knew a scorpio that knowingly passed a disease to another person....ewwwwww....now that's downright evil AND sick "in my opinion"!). Again....."perception" is everything!
Write me a book? What does that mean? And kid? Really? You think you can call people that?
Same goes for you GG for approving.
Same goes for you GG for approving.
Posted by DwellingOnMove
^^^^ said the Mercury ruled Virgo. LOL
Gray,
I have my problem with Gemini too. But first I had not heard of the two words in one sentence before.
Second what looks devil may be their mixed behavior.
For example sometimes they point at you in public as the wrong-doer. Other times they don't follow the rules cause they want to be unconventional. Mixed.
Fact is other signs are devil for other reasons. People I found bad/evil in my private life were these:
male Sag/Dragon, male Scorpio/Monkey, female Scorpio/Tiger, female Gem/Monkey, male Pisces/Tiger.
But they may have found me devil too.
Hm...i just see them as evil. Scorpios too. But the rest...id say manipulative, like pisces, taking life as a dream, but not evil. Gem and sco know how real Life is, and still choose to be evil. But thats my perception, i have pisces mars so maybe Im biased...
I dont see sags as evil, but they live on social interaction and they wont hesitate to throw you under the bus.
Posted by grayid2Posted by WateryGem
There is NO evil twin, I have NEVER said there are two people inside of me. I'm not sure what you all are referring to, but I'm ONE person.
You're a big mix too...but your profile pic says .....gemini.....🙂 LOL!click to expand
Actually, my pic is to represent my Sun and Moon! 🙂
The hidden part of my nature, the hidden side of who I am that no one really sees. Evil, isn't what it means, though. I'm more of an introverted person with the ability to seem extrovert b/c I do know how to socialize when in the mood.
My evil side must be quite tame. Or it could be that my own Sun sign isn't my dominant sign in my chart. So to stereotype is pretty silly!!
Posted by Lovelyisis
I have some really close Gem friends for years....dated 2 and 2 really close lady friends are Gems (even the 2 I dated we're still cool as heck). And I can honestly say I've never seen them as being "evil" or conducting themselves in that manner. Yeh...I've seen them hurt & upset & frustrated & mad, but not "evil" where they do things to people viciously or react out of pure hatred. To me their logic is more "sound" (more often times than not) after I've watched & witnessed them analyze whatever situation has gotten under their skin. Yes I've also watched them switch on a dime, but still not from "good" to "evil", usually this has to do with them finding ways of protecting themselves. Sometimes, I think they are more misunderstood and the "perception" may come off as them being "evil". Either way, I personally enjoy them!
Exactly^^^ I have never been thought of or seen as evil. Most people don't even see me upset! I completely shut off the world and stay away so I don't bring others down. I have to be pushed to an extreme level to get me to blow up on someone. Even when my friends have screwed me over I end the friendship in a respectful way. I don't see any point in slaughtering someone with my words that I truly love.
Not to say I haven't with a man, I have when I found out I was cheated on or something like that..
I can honestly this is why our board, to me, isn't that engaging b/c we get this type of stuff all the time.
Posted by WateryGemPosted by grayid2Posted by WateryGem
There is NO evil twin, I have NEVER said there are two people inside of me. I'm not sure what you all are referring to, but I'm ONE person.
You're a big mix too...but your profile pic says .....gemini.....🙂 LOL!
Actually, my pic is to represent my Sun and Moon! 🙂
The hidden part of my nature, the hidden side of who I am that no one really sees. Evil, isn't what it means, though. I'm more of an introverted person with the ability to seem extrovert b/c I do know how to socialize when in the mood.
My evil side must be quite tame. Or it could be that my own Sun sign isn't my dominant sign in my chart. So to stereotype is pretty silly!!click to expand
Well i still think it might be Gemini-inspired, but you integrated your other signs into it, so i guess you dont have that mischeivous mind. With your moon and cancer you must be very sensitive 🙂
Posted by grayid2Posted by WateryGemPosted by grayid2Posted by WateryGem
There is NO evil twin, I have NEVER said there are two people inside of me. I'm not sure what you all are referring to, but I'm ONE person.
You're a big mix too...but your profile pic says .....gemini.....🙂 LOL!
Actually, my pic is to represent my Sun and Moon! 🙂
The hidden part of my nature, the hidden side of who I am that no one really sees. Evil, isn't what it means, though. I'm more of an introverted person with the ability to seem extrovert b/c I do know how to socialize when in the mood.
My evil side must be quite tame. Or it could be that my own Sun sign isn't my dominant sign in my chart. So to stereotype is pretty silly!!
Well i still think it might be Gemini-inspired, but you integrated your other signs into it, so i guess you dont have that mischeivous mind. With your moon and cancer you must be very sensitive 🙂click to expand
Just don't ever tell, anyone, I'm sensitive.. LOL SHHHH!! I don't let people see that, either, they will try to prey on it. 😛
Posted by moongemPosted by WateryGem
There is NO evil twin, I have NEVER said there are two people inside of me. I'm not sure what you all are referring to, but I'm ONE person.
I would not take this so personally. Evil is complimentary. It just means: waaayy, too clever.click to expand
LOL I would never take "evil" related to me as a compliment. I want my life to reflect the positive and the love I give to people. 🙂
Moongem, is your Sun Gem or Cancer?? I can't remember..
Anyways, I guess this did wake the board up a little bit..
LOL its ok Im sensitive too...cancer rising trine mars in pisces, trine ura scorp...Forget bout it
Posted by grayid2
LOL its ok Im sensitive too...cancer rising trine mars in pisces, trine ura scorp...Forget bout it
What's your Sun and Moon? I love Cancer rising people, mine is Capricorn.. 🙂
Posted by WateryGemPosted by grayid2
LOL its ok Im sensitive too...cancer rising trine mars in pisces, trine ura scorp...Forget bout itclick to expand
What's your Sun and Moon? I love Cancer rising people, mine is Capricorn.. 🙂
Aries and Capricorn.
Your rising is Cappy? I've never met anybody with that. of wait I have, they're a bit distant, right? But serious people.
What? I don't even know what you're trying to say.
I called you a peasant cause you are, my sheit was easy to understand and you totally missed it. You could have gone back 2 seconds and figured it out, but you didn't. Who's like that? My god...
I called you a peasant cause you are, my sheit was easy to understand and you totally missed it. You could have gone back 2 seconds and figured it out, but you didn't. Who's like that? My god...
Posted by WateryGemPosted by moongemPosted by WateryGem
There is NO evil twin, I have NEVER said there are two people inside of me. I'm not sure what you all are referring to, but I'm ONE person.
I would not take this so personally. Evil is complimentary. It just means: waaayy, too clever.
LOL I would never take "evil" related to me as a compliment. I want my life to reflect the positive and the love I give to people. 🙂
Moongem, is your Sun Gem or Cancer?? I can't remember..
Anyways, I guess this did wake the board up a little bit..click to expand
None of you so far is technically a Gemini. If you just have that but the rest is water, fire, especially...it doesnt count. But a true Gemini will be amused at being called evil.
It takes 2 things in Gem to see it at play, or a Gem planet and 2 virgo...
Look at Craig Ferguson, or Alfred Molina, they're 4x Gemini, they're so smart there's no way you can beat them in an argument. Ever.
Posted by grayid2Posted by WateryGemPosted by grayid2
LOL its ok Im sensitive too...cancer rising trine mars in pisces, trine ura scorp...Forget bout it
What's your Sun and Moon? I love Cancer rising people, mine is Capricorn.. 🙂
Aries and Capricorn.
Your rising is Cappy? I've never met anybody with that. of wait I have, they're a bit distant, right? But serious people.click to expand
Yes, you would probably get along really well with me. LOL I can seem pretty serious but I'm quite playful with the people I love.
None of you so far is technically a Gemini. If you just have that but the rest is water, fire, especially...it doesnt count. But a true Gemini will be amused at being called evil.
It takes 2 things in Gem to see it at play, or a Gem planet and 2 virgo...
Look at Craig Ferguson, or Alfred Molina, they're 4x Gemini, they're so smart there's no way you can beat them in an argument. Ever.
My dominants are Scorpio and Virgo.. I can debate and argue with the best of them, I did so, more when I was younger. LOL I don't care to do it as much anymore, unless, I'm going to get some sexual pleasure after. I don't get anything out of it, anymore.
It takes 2 things in Gem to see it at play, or a Gem planet and 2 virgo...
Look at Craig Ferguson, or Alfred Molina, they're 4x Gemini, they're so smart there's no way you can beat them in an argument. Ever.
My dominants are Scorpio and Virgo.. I can debate and argue with the best of them, I did so, more when I was younger. LOL I don't care to do it as much anymore, unless, I'm going to get some sexual pleasure after. I don't get anything out of it, anymore.
Posted by LovelyisisPosted by DwellingOnMove
^^^^ said the Mercury ruled Virgo. LOL
...
Fact is other signs are devil for other reasons. ...
LOL Dwelling!!! You forgot to add my lovely water Moon ruled "Ascendant" and "Moon" placements. I'm such a lovely mixed bag of assortment candy...lmao! Don't just let my "sun" sign fool ya...lol! But true enuff, I understand Gems, and to your point, I've seen other signs do "evil" things to other people, (knew a scorpio that knowingly passed a disease to another person....ewwwwww....now that's downright evil AND sick "in my opinion"!). Again....."perception" is everything!click to expand
promised. 😉
disease passing? ouch.
Posted by TigerReloaded
...
I've had 10X more arguments with Gemini than Sags. Gemini LOVE to provoke you if they see you have issues with anger. I'm just going off personal experiences. Then they'll give this smirk once they've pissed you off, and they'll move on. ...
now, this I could call devil.
Classy 🙂 You concluded our interaction perfectly. Well done.
Posted by WateryGem
My dominants are Scorpio and Virgo.. I can debate and argue with the best of them, I did so, more when I was younger. LOL I don't care to do it as much anymore, unless, I'm going to get some sexual pleasure after. I don't get anything out of it, anymore.
lol 🙂
Posted by littlemegabytePosted by grayid2
Nothing to do with the idea of "evil twin". Its just, geminis, once you really know em, are pretty darn evil. And their symbol is the Twins.
Actually there could be more to the expression evil twin...
Grayid2!!! My heart hurts by your assumption!click to expand
Again, just because ou're Gemini, doesnt mean this applies to you, your other stuff isn't Gemini 🙂 Like me, an Aries, not a violent brute, just not suited for an army career or police, cause all my other planets are nt Aries
Posted by grayid2Posted by littlemegabytePosted by grayid2
Nothing to do with the idea of "evil twin". Its just, geminis, once you really know em, are pretty darn evil. And their symbol is the Twins.
Actually there could be more to the expression evil twin...
Grayid2!!! My heart hurts by your assumption!
Again, just because ou're Gemini, doesnt mean this applies to you, your other stuff isn't Gemini 🙂 Like me, an Aries, not a violent brute, just not suited for an army career or police, cause all my other planets are nt Ariesclick to expand
Maybe, my evil twin is the one behind close doors with my man in the budoir. LOL Unfortunately, I don't have a man. 😭 hahah
Posted by WateryGemPosted by grayid2Posted by WateryGem
There is NO evil twin, I have NEVER said there are two people inside of me. I'm not sure what you all are referring to, but I'm ONE person.
You're a big mix too...but your profile pic says .....gemini.....🙂 LOL!
Actually, my pic is to represent my Sun and Moon! 🙂
The hidden part of my nature, the hidden side of who I am that no one really sees. Evil, isn't what it means, though. I'm more of an introverted person with the ability to seem extrovert b/c I do know how to socialize when in the mood.
My evil side must be quite tame. Or it could be that my own Sun sign isn't my dominant sign in my chart. So to stereotype is pretty silly!!click to expand
No doubt WateryGem, you are a sweetheart 🙂
Posted by grayid2Posted by Kjk62Posted by DwellingOnMove
"Whats the connection between evil...and twins?"
never heard of.
People just grabbin at a black n white comparison for the heck of it.
If you ask me there is a ton of depth to a gem as airy ad they can be.
Always trying to bring harmony, ironically. 😄
Dude you have sun on the ascendant, Leo venus, Aries mars, scorp moon, i'd say you fail to represent the gemini population. I've met plenty and some real fvking geminis in my family. I know what Im talkin bout.click to expand
preach.
Posted by littlemegabyte
I am a bit confused. What is constituting being "technically a gemini" —
I have 4 gemini placements, 4 capricorn placements, 1 scorpio placement, and 2 cancer placements.
Fairly strong Gemini presence then...but they're mostly slow planets, no?
Ah! Ha. 🙂 hm...ok. Well. Maybe kind of evil lol. Or maybe youre just really smart. The cancer stuff mellows people out in any case. 2x cancer is enough to calm any bull. 3x and we have a semi-cry baby, 4x cancer you run for the hills 🙂 its potent. So Thats good.
Yeah you have a point..but dam...4x Gemini...lol I suppose you do well in your professional and social life...
I thought you were a Cap rising...that's why I said please to meet you on that other thread...I said you have Cap moon in the 1st, I have ca moon in the 7th. But you have Cap moon in the 7th, ya know, we both have Cancer rising...lol
I have Cancer Jupiter as well.
It's pretty strong in my chart cause I have a splash, meaning one planet per sign. So if there are 2 features the same it really stands out.
I've had a lot of Cancer feels...lol
I thought you were a Cap rising...that's why I said please to meet you on that other thread...I said you have Cap moon in the 1st, I have ca moon in the 7th. But you have Cap moon in the 7th, ya know, we both have Cancer rising...lol
I have Cancer Jupiter as well.
It's pretty strong in my chart cause I have a splash, meaning one planet per sign. So if there are 2 features the same it really stands out.
I've had a lot of Cancer feels...lol
Having Mars in the rising isn't bad...it takes away the sensitivity of Cancer, brings more "umpf". Planets in the first are your personality, really. How you apprehend the world. The 7th is other people, the energy they inspire...so Cancer rising, Moon in the 7th, it's kind of like having Cancer on both ends of the spectrum...it's good that you have Mars in the 1st...it changes that.
Your Pluto in Scorp has more importance if it's within 8?? of your Cancer rising or Mars.
Caps are a bit introverted, but not shy 🙂 They just want peace. Yeah I'm well rounded. Sometimes I don't even know who I am...lol like, people usually have a thing, a defined personality, but...not me 🙂 I can't really define myself.
Your Pluto in Scorp has more importance if it's within 8?? of your Cancer rising or Mars.
Caps are a bit introverted, but not shy 🙂 They just want peace. Yeah I'm well rounded. Sometimes I don't even know who I am...lol like, people usually have a thing, a defined personality, but...not me 🙂 I can't really define myself.
Posted by littlemegabytePosted by grayid2
My Mars is at 15 degrees and my AC is at over 29 degrees cancer, if I had been born less than an hour later, I would have been a Leo rising. My moon is also right on the cusp of Aquarius! Do AC and moon count for cusps?
I guess it renders Pluto scorpio pointless.
I don't have anything in the 7th except "North Node" which I don't even know what that is either haha.
I'm definitely an introvert. Unless I'm drunk hahaha.
And that sounds sad, grayid!! Haha you don't know what your personality is! You have Cancer (2) though, so if you had to, would you define yourself as such?click to expand
Omg are you trolling me? I have 15 and 29 in cancer...
Cusps don't officially count but I find it just lessens the effect of the planet.
Pluto is pointless if it's more than 8?? away from the trine.
I would say I'm cancer-ish...lol but I have Taurus MC and Chiron, and I have 4 things in Aquarius if you count asteroids and the Aries point(or smth like that)...I have Aries Sun and Merc...several asteroids in Pisces...so..it's complicated
Yeah except that I'm a dude...
Do you have a morbid fascination with cancer?
I love Leos, I think they're just really cool...maybe it's my Aries stuff....
I think asteroids matter...chiron is super important...and Pallas, vesta, if you study them in your chart you'll certainly see how they play out.
Do you have a morbid fascination with cancer?
I love Leos, I think they're just really cool...maybe it's my Aries stuff....
I think asteroids matter...chiron is super important...and Pallas, vesta, if you study them in your chart you'll certainly see how they play out.
Lol ok soul sistas 🙂 its quite mad that we have the exact same degrees...What degree is your chiron? And does it trine your scorpio pluto?
And mars and chiron in the 1st...interesting combo. Sensisitive and energetic/agressive.
Chiron in the 1st house: Chiron here can make you like a knight in shining armor, always ready to fight for the underdog. Usually, while you are doing this, you are neglecting yourself. You could also be a wise councilor (especially in health matters) but you seem to have trouble taking your own advice. A 1st house Chiron can be a gifted teacher, and, of course, you can teach others how to do something better than you can do it yourself. A neat trick to get around this: Give yourself advice as if you were someone else. Then maybe you will take it.
And mars and chiron in the 1st...interesting combo. Sensisitive and energetic/agressive.
Chiron in the 1st house: Chiron here can make you like a knight in shining armor, always ready to fight for the underdog. Usually, while you are doing this, you are neglecting yourself. You could also be a wise councilor (especially in health matters) but you seem to have trouble taking your own advice. A 1st house Chiron can be a gifted teacher, and, of course, you can teach others how to do something better than you can do it yourself. A neat trick to get around this: Give yourself advice as if you were someone else. Then maybe you will take it.
Pluto trine or sextile Chiron
You have a natural, inborn healing power that may be awakened through experiences of loss or through deep, transformative peak experiences. Your journey of self-healing involves powerful initiation experiences, and may lead you into shamanic awareness or parallel realities. You find and develop keys, methods that can open doors to reclaiming your wholeness and dealing with potentially destructive emotions. You could be a grief counselor, or in some other way help create a conscious bridge between dimensions. You may challenge all rules, assumptions and taboos about death, intimacy and transformation.
Awesome stuff 🙂 very plutonian...and Piscean, healer stuff. You'd make a great counselor.
You have a natural, inborn healing power that may be awakened through experiences of loss or through deep, transformative peak experiences. Your journey of self-healing involves powerful initiation experiences, and may lead you into shamanic awareness or parallel realities. You find and develop keys, methods that can open doors to reclaiming your wholeness and dealing with potentially destructive emotions. You could be a grief counselor, or in some other way help create a conscious bridge between dimensions. You may challenge all rules, assumptions and taboos about death, intimacy and transformation.
Awesome stuff 🙂 very plutonian...and Piscean, healer stuff. You'd make a great counselor.
You dont need a heart to be a good counselor...🙂
Oh youre refering to this thread...lol youre more of am Aries/scorpio type. Than gemini 🙂
Posted by grayid2
Oh youre refering to this thread...lol youre more of am Aries/scorpio type. Than gemini 🙂
What do I seem like Grayid2?
Yeah earthy, with 4x capricorn....for sure
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WG : need more info
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WG : need more info
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