Gods, nature and free will

Are we truly free? Or freedom just a myth?

Posted by SpaceBird

How is this related to freedom? Are you trying to say we are all connected by an invisible force which flows within us thereby making all our actions affecting each other and thus we are not free?

Then what about free will? The freedom to chose and be what we want to ?

Posted by subscribe
Free (of determinism) will doesn’t exist but the inconvenient questions it raises regarding moral responsibility are better left unanswered

Then we are not free. Nature has its laws and we are governed by the same laws. But is nature moral? Is it just? Doesn't the universe decides everything for us? Who we meet, who we become friends with, when to die ? Then where does the moral responsibility come from? Isn't God responsible for us then?

God topic. I doubt free will, I rather think in degrees of freedom and statistical analysis in decision making.

I advise anyone on this topic Robert Sapolsky lectures/stanford University

Posted by Capricorn91

Posted by subscribe
Free (of determinism) will doesn’t exist but the inconvenient questions it raises regarding moral responsibility are better left unanswered

Then we are not free. Nature has its laws and we are governed by the same laws. But is nature moral? Is it just? Doesn't the universe decides everything for us? Who we meet, who we become friends with, when to die ? Then where does the moral responsibility come from? Isn't God responsible for us then?

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Exactly. Physics suggests our nature is deterministic (fixed) however some things doesn't fit, nor with the non deterministic description

Posted by Capricorn91

Posted by subscribe
Free (of determinism) will doesn’t exist but the inconvenient questions it raises regarding moral responsibility are better left unanswered

Then we are not free. Nature has its laws and we are governed by the same laws. But is nature moral? Is it just? Doesn't the universe decides everything for us? Who we meet, who we become friends with, when to die ? Then where does the moral responsibility come from? Isn't God responsible for us then?

click to expand

It doesn't require God. Nor the laws of physics allow God to exist. See conservation of energy

Posted by greylatern


Then we are not free. Nature has its laws and we are governed by the same laws. But is nature moral? Is it just? Doesn't the universe decides everything for us? Who we meet, who we become friends with,

It doesn't require God. Nor the laws of physics allow God to exist. See conservation of energy



This isn't wrong but simple minded. It isn't god that doesn't exist just our definition of god that is inheritely wrong based on our limited perception of our own reality and understanding of it. Our knowlegde of physics is limited. I'll referense quantum superposition and our understanding of it as a example.

The truth is we know so little that is laughable as it is overwhelming. So the possibilty of a enity like "god" can't be proven or disproven by any known means. There is so much about the mechanics of exists that we still don't know or understand.

I'll give you another example. Largest living orgamism on our planet is a single fungus that has grown over a square mile. The muchrooms were thought to be sperate enities but it turns out the root system was just that vast and hidden from our limited perception.

It is fine to be scared of the unknown we are wired that way. It helped us survive. Excuses and irrational logic to run from it is not. That holds us back from advancing as a species as much as indivisuals.





Physics doing quite well actually. The unification still upstanding problem due the non consistency of correct theory of quantum gravity. I rather believe the black hole type scenario for the universe associated with vacuum/ superfluid to particle production, cluster formation due gravity.

Anyway good thing is we all think differently, and have at least opinion. Physics doesn't care that though 🙂

Posted by greylatern
We are free but exist within a structure governed by nature and most importantly the laws and attribes of our layer of demension. Such as space time influenced by gravity, 3rd demension. Unlike animals though we have evolved beyond our basic instincts to a mild degree. When survival instints based off of food and shelter no longer become nessasary because it becomes a none issue, we will devote more energy to other things. We will have more freedom in choosing our partners and mates. Our criteria for mates and partners will change. Other traits will become more important. We will evolve further through natural selection.

As for the spiritual side of things. Yes we are all connected. Like drops of water in a vast lake. We are indivisuals at a very small scale but all one at a much larger scale. Our choices and actions and even our thoughts through intent causes ripples that effect everyone else. The closer you are to the source the greater the effect. If you are asking if everything is predetermained then the answer is no. Events possibly but our response and reactions come from us more so then outside influences. Our actions and the actions of others are being good or bad is all a matter of perception really. Again we are free to choose how we react and act with others and our reality within the given stucture of this reality based on our ability to effect said structure of reality.

If I trip accidently on the street is it my fault? Yes because I didn't see that uneven ground or object. It is my fault because that is within my control. If I am pushed though unaware then no I am not in control of that persons actions unless I interacted with him in some way making it a valid response to do this directly or indirectly from his perception and point if view.

Our greatest gift is not life but choice and awareness to some degree of the consequences of those choices.

That is what seperates us from lesser life forms more then anything else. Our awareness. That is what the apple gave us. Awareness and the ability to consiously manipulate nature and it's laws and behaviors.

I don’t agree with everything you said but I agree with almost all of it. I believe the universe manipulated our lives in the same way the breath from our lips can cause a small leaf In the palm of our hands to blow into the wind and slowly fall onto the ground. We are nudged and moved by powerful forces. We must learn to listen to forces that try to speak to us and energy that speaks to us about all things. Most importantly, the source of this energy and force and universe is God himself. The sky we look up to is nothing but a mirror for unborn spirits and powerful principalities that watch us daily except we can’t see them.

Yes and no - we can act freely, but that was part of the weave anyways.

Posted by greylatern
Yes I removed my black hole part before I saw your response. I was getting hyperbolic and moving away from the point I was trying to make.

I don't think there is quantom gravity. I think we are looking at it the wrong way. Instead we should consider states of vibrations/frequences or speed. This Causing different levels of interactions to each other on that level. At that level particals will only have a effect on those that match or near their own range. Otherwise they pass though. We only see what is closer to our own frequence or vibration because that is the only time we can observe them. I think we should think of it as another layer altogether. Our level of existance is a set vibration or frequence range.

Another words string thoery.

String theory, but namely supergravity is the only consistent theory fits gravity in a promising way. Xiaos spin liquid theory also nice a promising direction. Witten also working on condensed matter problems bridging to string theory and ads/cft, holography.

Freedom is a concept, so it depends on your perspective.

Yep ... You are but fear keeps you unfree ... We are all free to do what we want as long as it is of your highest good to you and others.... Key words.... Others.... If you are self serving you remain trapped and bound to society standards and rules .... A zombie basically .... If you were yourself and others .... This is what gives freedom.... But God is not going to make you do the right thing... God expects for you to use your free will wisely and in a loving way.... Why... Well God created you... So God knows fully well of what you're capable of in the heart ... If you choose to be mean... Self serving.... The fall out is not on God... It's actually on you.... Free choice to be an azz or free choice to love.... That's how much God loves you...

Posted by Squishy_Marshmallow
Way too many restrictions for absolute free will to be considered a reality....

And hello!!

That's what I thought. But absolute free will is like living in a vacuum. Not possible. It needs living conditions which we call as restrictions. Not sure if it is making any sense.

Hello! I thought you had left. And happy Pongal/Sankranthi.

I think we are only truly free if we don’t care about anything.

Is that a possibility?

Posted by Squishy_Marshmallow

Posted by Capricorn91

Posted by Squishy_Marshmallow
Way too many restrictions for absolute free will to be considered a reality....

And hello!!

That's what I thought. But absolute free will is like living in a vacuum. Not possible. It needs living conditions which we call as restrictions. Not sure if it is making any sense.

Hello! I thought you had left. And happy Pongal/Sankranthi.

It is making sense and it is exactly what I wanted to write...

Do you think we would feel the urge to go out and break barriers/or not /or even test our limits if there are no restrictions/rules to break free from/ lines that needs to be blurred? No right?

I would be bored to death and die happily on the spot when faced with no adversity...

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Exactly. What's the point of living without challenges. Without the urge to unravel the mysteries of nature. If everything is without limits we just won't exist.

Posted by Squishy_Marshmallow

Posted by Capricorn91

Posted by Squishy_Marshmallow
Way too many restrictions for absolute free will to be considered a reality....

And hello!!

That's what I thought. But absolute free will is like living in a vacuum. Not possible. It needs living conditions which we call as restrictions. Not sure if it is making any sense.

Hello! I thought you had left. And happy Pongal/Sankranthi.

Nah I always come back... I need to find something great that's gonna keep me away from here... So far nothing! It's either dxp or sit out with friends or read...

Ugh dxp can be addictive!!

And Happy Pongal to you too!

Are you at work?

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Haha good to hear or rather not? 😛

You read? What kind of books?

Yes it is very addictive.

Yes I am at work 😢

Posted by pisceswoman123
I think we are only truly free if we don’t care about anything.

Is that a possibility?

I don't think so. We are always bound to the consequences of our actions.

Posted by Capricorn91

Posted by pisceswoman123
I think we are only truly free if we don’t care about anything.

Is that a possibility?

I don't think so. We are always bound to the consequences of our actions.

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Yes, but if you don’t care about the consequences then we will be free

I believe we are free to the human extend. There are always things out of our control.