
Damnata
@Damnata
15 Years25,000+ PostsVirgo
Comments: 252 · Posts: 36419 · Topics: 473



Posted by GetMistedPosted by NotYourAverageAquariusPosted by GetMistedPosted by NotYourAverageAquariusPosted by Damnata
I want to argue against Education being a FUNDAMENTAL human right. Fundamental rights, what we are discussing here, are something that is so INHERENT to the human nature, down to our core. And our core is security from any type of harm.. essentially survival. And we can survive without education...it's one of the rights that is a bonus of a civilised society and not the basis of it.
Education does in no way fit the bill on fundamental rights.. it is assimilated to a system of knowledgeable data enforced by society.
You can thrive as a human being with no education whatsoever. Survival by any means is the end game for humanity, education is just one of the many weapons we choose to employ to do it. It is a conscious system we enroll in, it is a choice we make in pursuing it.
First of all if you want to survive you have to LEARN and EDUCATE yourself on the environment you live in.
Second I could be an idiot and I can still chose to learn new things because I have the freedom to choose to think differently every day of my life.
You can't "thrive" as a human being if you don't even know that putting things into your mouth satisfies your hunger.
Instinct and adaptation (evolution) is needed to survive, not education. We already pointed that out.
Can't adapt without learning sorry.
You can Evolve through genentic mutation. You adapt through evolution. sorryclick to expand


Posted by SteveW
And our right to an education gave us the ability to write, read, and critically think as well our right to a free will. Our right to life just brought us into the world.
Posted by SteveW
But instinct of survival and/or survival may just be overrated. All you need to live is food, water, and clothing. You can use materials to build a shelter.click to expand

Posted by Damnata
No, what I am saying is there is no rational thought that can overtake instinct of survival. It is THE driving force behind our actions, the Right of Life is the concrete evidence of that and the most important right.
If you agree on that, yes we do agree 🙂




Posted by DamnataPosted by NotYourAverageAquarius
You are free to bring w/e you like.
The fact still remains that no one can honestly knows the answer to this question.
There have been many proposed answers but...
" It has been the subject of much philosophical, scientific, and theological speculation throughout history."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meaning_of_life
Posted by Damnata
No one knows what the purpose of life is
^Yes, but for you to state this opinion you need to understand what life is...and that's a word you won't get if you are never born.
Your argument proves my point about the Right of Live being above all the rest.
.click to expand

Posted by SteveW
The pyramid you used is Maslow's Theory. That is his theory on basic needs that are based on psychology. But your right to an education brought you to understand and know it. 🙂
Posted by SteveW
You most definitely need clothing in society or you will go to jail unless you happen to find a nudist colony in your state of homelessness.click to expand

Posted by Damnata
^You can take it from me because you are ALIVE while doing so.
Unless you plan to die and then off me...but even they you will have lived before you died.

Posted by NotYourAverageAquariusPosted by Damnata
^You can take it from me because you are ALIVE while doing so.
Unless you plan to die and then off me...but even they you will have lived before you died.
Just because I have to be alive to kill doesn't mean I have a right to that life.click to expand

Posted by NotYourAverageAquarius
LIfe and birth are not guaranteed BUT if you ARE born THEN while you have life you will always have the right to choose.

Posted by Damnata
Oh and to bring up again why survival beats choice any day of the week:
You can hold your breathe out of choice and you will faint and your body will immediately start breathing to conserve your life.
Guess your body isn't on board with the Right to Death thing lol.

Posted by NotYourAverageAquarius
If you chose to try to kill yourself like that you would obviously be of low intelligence and not realize it is not sufficient to kill yourself. The choice was never taken just the knowledge needed to accomplish the choice was not yet attained.
Yeah I can also choose to jump of a building.
Put a gun to my head and pull the trigger.
Those are a lot more effective means.
😄

Posted by GetMistedPosted by NotYourAverageAquariusPosted by Damnata
No, what I am saying is there is no rational thought that can overtake instinct of survival. It is THE driving force behind our actions, the Right of Life is the concrete evidence of that and the most important right.
If you agree on that, yes we do agree 🙂
How can life be a right you have universally if I can take it from you?
If you want to survive me, your predator, your going to have to learn how. My habits... My weaknesses and even then... nothing is stopping me from taking your life but your WILL to live.
Evolution and adaptation, not education, allows a species to potentially survive a predator.
Posted by NotYourAverageAquarius
"Many species have the ability to adapt through learning."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptive_behavior_(ecology)??_
"evolutionary edge connected with the way in which he had learned to use his brain."
"sophisticated hunting techniques adapted to their environment."
www.i-c-r.org.uk/publications/monographarchive/Monclick to expand

Posted by DamnataPosted by NotYourAverageAquariusPosted by Damnata
^You can take it from me because you are ALIVE while doing so.
Unless you plan to die and then off me...but even they you will have lived before you died.
Just because I have to be alive to kill doesn't mean I have a right to that life.
This is not what I said.
What I said is for me to kill you I would have to be alive so again me being alive happens before killing you, the Right to Life goes first.click to expand

Posted by GetMistedPosted by NotYourAverageAquariusPosted by Damnata
^You can take it from me because you are ALIVE while doing so.
Unless you plan to die and then off me...but even they you will have lived before you died.
Just because I have to be alive to kill doesn't mean I have a right to that life.
You CANNOT choose to kill without being alive to do so. #Airheadclick to expand

Posted by NotYourAverageAquarius
Sure you have to be alive. But you don't have a right to that life.
Only the Government can try to protect it but that's about it.

Posted by GetMistedPosted by NotYourAverageAquariusPosted by GetMistedPosted by NotYourAverageAquariusPosted by Damnata
^You can take it from me because you are ALIVE while doing so.
Unless you plan to die and then off me...but even they you will have lived before you died.
Just because I have to be alive to kill doesn't mean I have a right to that life.
You CANNOT choose to kill without being alive to do so. #Airhead
No shit!
I never said you didn't have to be alive.
But life is not something anyone has control of... It is a gift that no one has a right to. We just enjoy it if we are lucky enough to be granted it.
You can reproduce. thus prolonging your life. Thus producing more offspring. Thus living live through multiple generations.
Thus, is the corner hurting your nose yet?click to expand


Posted by DamnataPosted by NotYourAverageAquarius
Sure you have to be alive. But you don't have a right to that life.
Only the Government can try to protect it but that's about it.
Absolutely you do.
What you are taking about is society and the society contract.
"At a point in the state of nature when the obstacles to human preservation have become greater than each individual with his own strength can cope with . . ., an adequate combination of forces must be the result of men coming together. Still, each man's power and freedom are his main means of self?_preservation. How is he to put them under the control of others without damaging himself . . . ?"
^This is Jean Jacque Rousseau's argument for society contract. Notice how he talks about a point where the evolution went from the individual needs to those of the groups. This happened less than a 1000 years ago.
The rest of the million years - 1000 years? Yeah, it's all survival and the Right of Life.
click to expand


Posted by NotYourAverageAquarius
Men deciding to be civil and follow decided upon rules does not mean they have to follow those rules.

Posted by SteveW
If someone kills me tonight, I would be dead tomorrow and would have no thought about this debate or computer. I would not care? I don't know life after death but I imagine it would be like a slumber? That isn't able to be answered by any of us.
lol
OK and onto my right to die: look at my past post. And our right to an education gave us the ability to write, read, and critically think as well our right to a free will. Our right to life just brought us into the world.
But instinct of survival and/or survival may just be overrated. All you need to live is food, water, and clothing. You can use materials to build a shelter.

Posted by GetMistedPosted by NotYourAverageAquariusPosted by GetMistedPosted by NotYourAverageAquariusPosted by GetMistedPosted by NotYourAverageAquariusPosted by Damnata
^You can take it from me because you are ALIVE while doing so.
Unless you plan to die and then off me...but even they you will have lived before you died.
Just because I have to be alive to kill doesn't mean I have a right to that life.
You CANNOT choose to kill without being alive to do so. #Airhead
No shit!
I never said you didn't have to be alive.
But life is not something anyone has control of... It is a gift that no one has a right to. We just enjoy it if we are lucky enough to be granted it.
You can reproduce. thus prolonging your life. Thus producing more offspring. Thus living live through multiple generations.
Thus, is the corner hurting your nose yet?
Reproduction does not prolong your life.
Reproduction spreads your DNA. The goal of all species is to survive and pass on their DNA. Thus living through generations.click to expand

Posted by GetMistedPosted by NotYourAverageAquariusPosted by DamnataPosted by NotYourAverageAquarius
Sure you have to be alive. But you don't have a right to that life.
Only the Government can try to protect it but that's about it.
Absolutely you do.
What you are taking about is society and the society contract.
"At a point in the state of nature when the obstacles to human preservation have become greater than each individual with his own strength can cope with . . ., an adequate combination of forces must be the result of men coming together. Still, each man's power and freedom are his main means of self?_preservation. How is he to put them under the control of others without damaging himself . . . ?"
^This is Jean Jacque Rousseau's argument for society contract. Notice how he talks about a point where the evolution went from the individual needs to those of the groups. This happened less than a 1000 years ago.
The rest of the million years - 1000 years? Yeah, it's all survival and the Right of Life.
Men deciding to be civil and follow decided upon rules does not mean they have to follow those rules.
can we say Revolutionary War, The Civil War, The Korean War.... any War over the course of history.
"At a point in the state of nature when the obstacles to human preservation have become greater than each individual with his own strength can cope with . . ., an adequate combination of forces must be the result of men coming together. Still, each man's power and freedom are his main means of self?_preservation. How is he to put them under the control of others without damaging himself . . . ?"
This backs up my rights .. not yours.
You mean... Like Liberty?click to expand

Posted by Scruffy
Judge Herman Munster...
I request a 02min 05sec TIMEout to challenge a misread observation brought up by our adorable pom pom wielding cheerleader that could potentially extract points from my team's appointed lead litigators.
Posted by justagirl
My head hurts after reading the thread.... Glad I let Scuffy take my spot.. however, SCRUFFY you need to debate not bring snacks 😛
Sir, if you look closely at the Airheads' leads NachoAverageAquarius and aquasnoz you will see that my offering of Nachos Supreme platter snacks and Aquafina Bottled water refreshments for public consumption, is a subliminal message delivered in my own unique way in support of my team's litigators' arguments.
I therefore request that you do not deduct any points from the DownyDryerSheets, but instead give us more points for being creative.
#downydryersheets ftwclick to expand


Posted by GetMistedPosted by NotYourAverageAquariusPosted by GetMistedPosted by NotYourAverageAquariusPosted by DamnataPosted by NotYourAverageAquarius
Sure you have to be alive. But you don't have a right to that life.
Only the Government can try to protect it but that's about it.
Absolutely you do.
What you are taking about is society and the society contract.
"At a point in the state of nature when the obstacles to human preservation have become greater than each individual with his own strength can cope with . . ., an adequate combination of forces must be the result of men coming together. Still, each man's power and freedom are his main means of self?_preservation. How is he to put them under the control of others without damaging himself . . . ?"
^This is Jean Jacque Rousseau's argument for society contract. Notice how he talks about a point where the evolution went from the individual needs to those of the groups. This happened less than a 1000 years ago.
The rest of the million years - 1000 years? Yeah, it's all survival and the Right of Life.
Men deciding to be civil and follow decided upon rules does not mean they have to follow those rules.
can we say Revolutionary War, The Civil War, The Korean War.... any War over the course of history.
"At a point in the state of nature when the obstacles to human preservation have become greater than each individual with his own strength can cope with . . ., an adequate combination of forces must be the result of men coming together. Still, each man's power and freedom are his main means of self?_preservation. How is he to put them under the control of others without damaging himself . . . ?"
This backs up my rights .. not yours.
You mean... Like Liberty?
Liberty is not one of my listed rights.
No, but your arguement supports the Right to Liberty. 😉click to expand

Posted by NotYourAverageAquarius
The Liberty to exert my own will yes.


Posted by NotYourAverageAquarius
I found an interesting article written by someone who while feeling he has his power given to him by the constitution rather than his own mind... still had a couple of interesting paragraphs I'd like to share.
"A constitutional republic protects the rights of the individual even when their ideas are very much in the minority. If I were the only person in America who believed in the 2nd amendment, I would still be within my rights to call upon it. You would all think I was insane and possibly celebrate if I was gunned down, but in the end I would be the only true American among us.
Our framers were very clear on this. If my government comes to take my guns......
It is not my right, at that point, but my responsibility to respond in the name of liberty. What I am telling you is something that many are trying to soft sell, and many others have tried to avoid putting into print, but I am going to say it. The time for speaking in code is over.
If they come for our guns............. You have the right to kill any representative of this government who tries to tread on your liberty. I am thinking about self-defense and not talking about inciting a revolution. Re-read Jefferson??s quote. He talks about a —last resort.?? I am not trying to start a Revolt, I am talking about self-defense. If the day for Revolution comes, when no peaceful options exist, we may have to talk about that as well. None of us wants to think about that, but please understand that a majority can not take away your rights......... Only you can choose to give up your rights."
Funny how he knows this despite thinking he is given these rights rather than inherently the owner of them.


Posted by NotYourAverageAquarius
The Liberty to exert my own will yes.


Posted by NotYourAverageAquarius
From last year.
Posted by NotYourAverageAquarius
I found an interesting article written by someone who while feeling he has his power given to him by the constitution rather than his own mind... still had a couple of interesting paragraphs I'd like to share.
"A constitutional republic protects the rights of the individual even when their ideas are very much in the minority. If I were the only person in America who believed in the 2nd amendment, I would still be within my rights to call upon it. You would all think I was insane and possibly celebrate if I was gunned down, but in the end I would be the only true American among us.
Our framers were very clear on this. If my government comes to take my guns......
It is not my right, at that point, but my responsibility to respond in the name of liberty. What I am telling you is something that many are trying to soft sell, and many others have tried to avoid putting into print, but I am going to say it. The time for speaking in code is over.
If they come for our guns............. You have the right to kill any representative of this government who tries to tread on your liberty. I am thinking about self-defense and not talking about inciting a revolution. Re-read Jefferson??s quote. He talks about a —last resort.?? I am not trying to start a Revolt, I am talking about self-defense. If the day for Revolution comes, when no peaceful options exist, we may have to talk about that as well. None of us wants to think about that, but please understand that a majority can not take away your rights......... Only you can choose to give up your rights."
Funny how he knows this despite thinking he is given these rights rather than inherently the owner of them.
click to expand



Posted by SteveWPosted by Damnata
Oh and btw with the infant scenario...NO parent teaches you to poop or pee, which is right there on the first level of the pyramid. Your body knows how do this on your own or you will die.
It's survival instinct.
They potty train you.click to expand

Posted by TheLadyScorpioPosted by NotYourAverageAquarius
The Liberty to exert my own will yes.
You declare yourself as exerting your own will, then pray tell how is that a proof that on a greater good level, it is a "Right" in itself that the entire entire humanity should but embrace?
You are making yourself redundant in your statements.
Posted by StoicGoat
The winning team will be determined based on how well its members argue in favor of their rights, defend them against attack, support them logically and/or with empirical evidence, and weaken the opposing team??s chosen rights. For the purposes of this debate, —human rights?? shall be defined as —those fundamental rights humans have by virtue of being human.??
(cont.)click to expand


Posted by GetMistedPosted by NotYourAverageAquarius
From last year.
Posted by NotYourAverageAquarius
I found an interesting article written by someone who while feeling he has his power given to him by the constitution rather than his own mind... still had a couple of interesting paragraphs I'd like to share.
"A constitutional republic protects the rights of the individual even when their ideas are very much in the minority. If I were the only person in America who believed in the 2nd amendment, I would still be within my rights to call upon it. You would all think I was insane and possibly celebrate if I was gunned down, but in the end I would be the only true American among us.
Our framers were very clear on this. If my government comes to take my guns......
It is not my right, at that point, but my responsibility to respond in the name of liberty. What I am telling you is something that many are trying to soft sell, and many others have tried to avoid putting into print, but I am going to say it. The time for speaking in code is over.
If they come for our guns............. You have the right to kill any representative of this government who tries to tread on your liberty. I am thinking about self-defense and not talking about inciting a revolution. Re-read Jefferson??s quote. He talks about a —last resort.?? I am not trying to start a Revolt, I am talking about self-defense. If the day for Revolution comes, when no peaceful options exist, we may have to talk about that as well. None of us wants to think about that, but please understand that a majority can not take away your rights......... Only you can choose to give up your rights."
Funny how he knows this despite thinking he is given these rights rather than inherently the owner of them.
You do not have to choose, or educate yourself in order to keep your right to Life. You simply use instinct.
How does that corner smell, Airhead?
click to expand





Posted by NotYourAverageAquarius
I know

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Yes, you are discussing society formed in the last...2000 years.
I am discussing millions of years of evolution.
I agree on your point about modern society but we cannot discuss economy or jobs until we are alive. And thanks to the Right of Life, backed up by the survival instinct, you and me can sit on our computers and have this debate.
Everything that followed, started with survival/Right of Life.