LetltB
@LetltB
12 Years5,000+ Posts
Comments: 1 · Posts: 9186 · Topics: 179
For Accusers & Liberals out of control
You are on page out of 2 | Reverse Order
the world is now a better place
Rabbit..did you or anyone notice on Christmas Eve into Christmas Day A&E ran a Duck Dynasty Marathon? Now I've never seen the show, but good for this man and his family who have the right to share their opinion and thoughts without being shut down as some would like. That's why they call this country BEAUTIFUL.😉
Posted by thescepter
I DON'T LIKE THE RETRACTION THO. AS AN ARIES MERCURY I THINK ONE SHUD STAND BY THE STUPID SHIT THAT COMES OUT OF YOUR MOUTH. 😛
There was no retraction. This man maintains his opinion and beliefs. Even AFTER he was called out he reiterated that and stated that no matter what he loves "all humankind". But yea..to the poster about GQ Magazine..lol what a joke.
Posted by seraph
I wonder what A&E would have done if his comments ..... er, umm... "personal beliefs publicly voiced".... were racist instead of homophobic, because both those apples fall from the same tree.
KEY WORD "IF". Didn't happen but people like you sure spun it to be so.
Seraph..a suggestion. Don't ever get into politics, you will surely be on an assasins top 10 list.
There was no flip flopping pal. It just seems that way in your spinny spin world.
Regarding GQ again. They tried their hardest to get this guy to do what Seraph suggest he did. He was being honest and shared his belief and opinion as all Americans are entitled to.😉
Fuck I'm gonna have to watch this stupid show now.
Posted by Rabbit
Do you know what would happen if Mel Brooks tried to make a movie like Blazing Saddles these days? Someone call in the ACLU.
lol...great movie too.
Posted by seraph
He was suspended "indefinitely", and nary a week later they bring him back. Flippety-flop go the corporate interests at Arts & $ ntertainment.
Why?
Business. Now that A&E has denounced its hateful bigot, it will resume making (even more) millions from its hateful bigot.
The problem with folks like you, LIB, is that you value the sheer ability and opportunity to say whatever you like and however you want to say it, over and above any consideration for its potential for being taken too far, not to mention its outright abuses. You care more about the existence of an idea rather than *also* taking into consideration how it isn't working like it should, and how it can be used to tear others down and limit their safe and unimpeded enjoyment of the rights you and others enjoy, because it can be used a bludgeon with the weight of nearly sacrosanct codification behind it.
When you are handed a nearly inviolable right that is virtually immune to any socially progressive limits, you are given the responsibility of policing yourselves. When you can't, or won't, or are otherwise somehow loathe to do this, then the net result is that it can be used to cause harm with no opportunity for accessible remedies. This is definitely a problem, and it's been playing out socially in the US for over 30 years now.
Which is in substantial part why the US is around 30 years behind in social issues and social policy in comparison to most modern, developed democratic countries.
And WHY is THAT ^^^ ? Because culture informs politics, which in turn informs social legislation. And a substantial slice of the American political pie is a very well funded, very well supported (grassroots) entity that is represented by the Very Rich and the Very Poor - all at the same time. With attitudes that are about as prog
Translation of that ^^^^very desperate spin:
The difference being the shit has a smoother spin to it...
Posted by seraph
OBVIOUSLY, certain beliefs have no place in a socially progressive, democratic society.
Name them. Be specific.
And, if you're feeling generous, what should be done to the people who choose to maintain those beliefs?
I'm genuinely curious.
Posted by CancerOnTheCusp
Name them. Be specific.
And, if you're feeling generous, what should be done to the people who choose to maintain those beliefs?
I'm genuinely curious.
Thank you I too am very curious.
Posted by Rabbit
I lived in Kansas for two years. Not everyone there is some kind of bigoted toothless gun toting uneducated hillbilly like you're implying.
Stop derailing please.
Posted by seraphPosted by CancerOnTheCuspPosted by seraph
OBVIOUSLY, certain beliefs have no place in a socially progressive, democratic society.
Name them. Be specific.
And, if you're feeling generous, what should be done to the people who choose to maintain those beliefs?
I'm genuinely curious.
I know what they are. They come through loud and clear in each of my posts. You know what they are as well. I should hope you don't require a remedial in that.
YOU name them. Since by the implication of your post you have different ideas (or a different agenda.) I've already written paragraphs on this in this thread. So do us the honour of elaborating about same. And NO, I wouldn't string them up by their balls, if that's the answer you're after.
click to expand
We wouldn't be curious if we KNEW what they are. That's why the question was asked. So NAME the certain beliefs that have no place in society Seraph———??
..unless of course you have no spine or teeth.
I checked each of your posts here. I didn't see a specific list as you claim is here.
Posted by seraph
OBVIOUSLY, certain beliefs have no place in a socially progressive, democratic society.
Here, I'll give you a 1-10 list of beliefs that have no place in society.
1.)
2.)
3.)
4.)
5.)
6.)
7.)
8.)
9.)
10.)
Need more? Feel free to add. No bullshit Seraph just name them.
Posted by seraph
Under discussion HERE is the one that is the very reason Robertson was suspended: Homophobia, which is a form of bigotry, this time masquerading as a "personal belief", or some such semantic nonsense that is used to justify it.
They, in fact, are ALL personal beliefs in the first place. It doesn't change what they are and do, however, when they are expressed.
Yea..you accused him of being homophobic in the duck dynasty thread and I blew a shit load of holes into that bigoted accusation. He EXPRESSED he likes to fuck females and prefers females. Does that give you a right to call him homophobic? In fact it would make you an outright hypocrite. So either list the SPECIFIC beliefs that have no right in society and stop derailing.
Posted by LetltBPosted by seraph
OBVIOUSLY, certain beliefs have no place in a socially progressive, democratic society.
Here, I'll give you a 1-10 list of beliefs that have no place in society.
1.)
2.)
3.)
4.)
5.)
6.)
7.)
8.)
9.)
10.)
Need more? Feel free to add. No bullshit Seraph just name them.click to expand
No, not all of them have to be named. Only the OBVIOUS ones.
Well cotc, I assumed there were many of those just in case 😢
Yet there is still no specific answer or list coming forward obviously..
Yet there is still no specific answer or list coming forward obviously..
I'm sure my opinion doesn't matter much in this debate, and I'll probably have someone jump down my throat for saying it, but I didn't really see what this Robertson guy had to say as really being 'hateful'. Pretty sure I know what true hate speech sounds like at this point and that... that's not it. So what if he doesn't understand homosexual attraction and holds a fundamental religious belief. That doesn't make him a bad person.
And we all the media's propensity to manipulate and sensationalize things, milking controversy for all it's worth, because that makes them money. I doubt that what he has said was as bad as it's been made out to be or that he sincerely intended to hurt anyone. He's just another guy speaking his mind as much as anyone else. He just gets more attention for it since he's on TV.
Just my two cents.
*shrug*
And we all the media's propensity to manipulate and sensationalize things, milking controversy for all it's worth, because that makes them money. I doubt that what he has said was as bad as it's been made out to be or that he sincerely intended to hurt anyone. He's just another guy speaking his mind as much as anyone else. He just gets more attention for it since he's on TV.
Just my two cents.
*shrug*
Posted by seraph
"Not my problem" is easy to say when you don't have *that* kind yourself. Until something happens that affects you or those you love, and you look around for support and don't find anyone willing to speak up.
Multiply right attitudes and intent by thousands, millions.... and you have the makings of meaningful change.
In answer to your first paragraph..I speak up for what I believe in. Because that is my right.
So now you are changing the spin from beliefs to attitudes Ok..I'll bite.
LIST THE "RIGHT ATTITUDES AND INTENT" that you feel will have the makings of meaningful change AFTER you list beliefs that have no place in society...you know for balance purposes
Posted by seraphPosted by LetltB
Well cotc, I assumed there were many of those just in case 😢
There is ONE that is under discussion (Re: Duck Dynasty.) That's already been mentioned. There are others that you should know by now, since it's almost
2014 and not the 60s.
Unless you're more interested in semantics, in which case there can't really be any discussion.click to expand
Stop with the spinning Seraph. Come on, you are always vocal here. Grow some balls and fight for what you believe in and what beliefs you feel do not belong in society. Why are you hiding and cowering?
Posted by seraph
Defending bigotry and the right to express it *is* the only infantile part of any of this discussion. Especially when others, beyond your borders, are dealing with these issues successfully.
There's no bigotry here to defend. I'm defending a freedom of belief that I'm entitled to in my country. Can you list the bigotry from this thread? I think you will find the only bigotry here are within your posts Seraph. That is very clear. You gonna come up with a list for us or what? I made it easy for you. A list what you feel is right and beliefs that are wrong. I will patiently wait.
Posted by seraphPosted by LetltBPosted by xcake
Whats the difference between hate speech and an opinion?
RESEARCH AND FIND OUT
Empathy and common sense, for one.
How do you not know this?click to expand
See..there you go again hiding behind words. Empathy for hate speech yes..agreed. Can you please list the wrong beliefs/common sense opinions that do no belong in society please?
Posted by Rabbit
And there we go with the anti-American elitism again...
Which gives one a blank check to talk shit about people "beneath" them.
So he can be a bigot against Americans who have beliefs, and Americans can't have (fill in the blank, cuz he's not) beliefs. And he's above us? Does that scream common sense to anyone?
Posted by seraph
If you of all people don't know by now, LIB, then my telling you won't make you any brighter. Because you aren't actually interested in debate.
In fact Seraph, I am very much trying to debate here, but when someone makes a statement in a debate how can one debate it when he refuses to specify statments made? I'm very interested in this debate and specifically called you out for it. I'm here, I'm not holding back. So, if you want to debate, please answer the question instead of jamming the debate up.
Posted by LetltB
Stop with the spinning Seraph. Come on, you are always vocal here. Grow some balls and fight for what you believe in and what beliefs you feel do not belong in society. Why are you hiding and cowering?click to expand
Because I suspect, based on other things I have read in this thread, Seraph couldn't be honest about it without marking himself as closet totalitarian.
His original statement rung a note because I knew I had read something similar before.
I had to go back and look. I found it, and even though Seraph broached the Godwin's Law barrier, it is pointless to bring it up.
To play devil's advocate for a moment -
It's not really a debate when no matter what the guy says it's only going to continue the gang up on Seraph hour. There isn't any logical reason for him to participate and give you what you want.
*shrugs*
It's not really a debate when no matter what the guy says it's only going to continue the gang up on Seraph hour. There isn't any logical reason for him to participate and give you what you want.
*shrugs*
What Phil said about Gays and African American was Ignorant not hateful but he has a right to his opinion.
He has a right to free speech even if it borders between ignorance and stupidity.
We do not need restrictions around speech. We have to evolve naturally into policing ourselves.
He has a right to free speech even if it borders between ignorance and stupidity.
We do not need restrictions around speech. We have to evolve naturally into policing ourselves.
Posted by TMV
To play devil's advocate for a moment -
It's not really a debate when no matter what the guy says it's only going to continue the gang up on Seraph hour. There isn't any logical reason for him to participate and give you what you want.
*shrugs*
It's not really a gang up, IMHO.
I've seen a lot of statements thrown out by him in this thread that don't have specific substance behind them. In fact, they generally have a backhanded snark.
Reminds me of Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons.
Posted by CancerOnTheCuspPosted by TMV
To play devil's advocate for a moment -
It's not really a debate when no matter what the guy says it's only going to continue the gang up on Seraph hour. There isn't any logical reason for him to participate and give you what you want.
*shrugs*
It's not really a gang up, IMHO.
I've seen a lot of statements thrown out by him in this thread that don't have specific substance behind them. In fact, they generally have a backhanded snark.
Reminds me of Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons.click to expand
Oh, I see the snark. On both sides. The whole thread reads like a bunch of one-legged fools going at each other in a butt kicking contest.
Posted by cowpuncher
In fact Seraph, I am very much trying to debate here, but when someone makes a statement in a debate how can one debate it when he refuses to specify statments made? I'm very interested in this debate and specifically called you out for it. I'm here, I'm not holding back. So, if you want to debate, please answer the question instead of jamming the debate up.
You can't debate with somebody who sets themselves up as the gatekeeper and arbiter of all that is Good, Just, Noble, and Right; while vilifying any and all dissenting opinion. It's simply not possible.
You can't have a discussion with that brand of hypocrite.
Seraph next time you preach about intolerance you need to go look in a mirror and ask yourself how often you've considered your own intolerance for any opinion that differs from your own.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here..I have a blue eyed, gentleman to join in some really hot heterosexual activities with following a beautiful sunny afternoon and will leave it at this.
I hate to assume, but am forced to due to a lack of cooperative debating. Seraph, since you are not debating fairly and refuse to be specific, I'm going to assume that you feel that all people of all societies have no right to any beliefs or opinions other than what people are told to believe and dictated to believe by progressive liberals. If that's the case, please heed my earlier advice and never ever approach politics, stay out of America..you will be taken out in a nano second. This generation and hundreds after in my country will never tolerate a dictatorship such as one you suggest. I'd proudly die fighting it and CAN.
Posted by Chance15
i hate this mentality that ppl feel that they are 'entitled' to an opinion..no, ppl that know something are entitled to an opinion..you (not you specifically tiki 🙂)are entitled to vote.
And who gets to determine who "knows something"? What qualifies as "knowing something"?
Posted by TMV
The whole thread reads like a bunch of one-legged fools going at each other in a butt kicking contest.click to expand
You mind if I steal that?
Its funny.
Posted by cowpuncher
Likewise you see really concerned with imposing tyranny. I don't care how high your opinion of yourself is, you don't have the right to dictate thought, opinion, or speech to a solitary soul other than yourself, and you never will.
As for giving consideration to things that need limits and are monumentally ill advised - Start with your apparently desperate need to control others and dictate their speech, thoughts, and opinions to them. Put some limits on that, or continue to look like a gargantuan hypocrite.
Nobody has to like you, nobody has to like me, nobody has to like Phil Robertson. Tolerate these people and their opinions (and those of others), absolutely! That's tolerance.
The second you step over that line and start demanding endorsement, demanding that people be forced to 'like' you or adopt your beliefs, that's where the rubber meets the road.
Ever notice how many nasty blanket statements you seem to feel you have the right to make about US citizens? If one of us made so many about Canadians you'd lose your mind. Hypocrisy is not a virtue, regardless of what you may think.
Thank you, I don't like you & know it's mutual, but thank you for speaking the TRUTH.
Posted by Chance15
two different issues imo..of course, anyone can say anything..unfortunately that base argument is what some are stuck on. who gets to "determine who knows something?"..the easy answer would be the those that are informed and make compelling, rational points based upon demonstrated knowledge and sound judgement. you'd think that'd be easy but as seen in this thread, ppl are only going to value what they believe already and blindly ignore logical points that don't fit into their already held views..basically what confirmation bias is.
Unfortunately I think that's just a state of humanity at this point. As the late Frank Zappa once said:
"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change peoples' minds."
Somewhere out there, there's probably a child molester whose feelings have been hurt by one of my rants about how they're the scum of the earth. Things like this is where we start to see the issue skew because if everyone were to be equally protected under hate speech laws that child molester would potentially have "rights" and I would be fined or possibly even imprisoned for voicing a fundamental belief of mine against child abuse.
An extreme example, sure. But the point remains the same.
What constitutes hate speech is relative and dependent on a variable set of ethics and moral belief systems that are in a constant state of fluctuation. What is offensive to one person may not be to another, and what was offensive yesterday may not be tomorrow. Whose opinions on what is correct or proper behavior isn't based on the collective. It's based on who agrees with them because otherwise it never would have been an issue to begin with, and a part of American culture, whether other nations would agree with it or not, is that we are holden to the belief that no one individual's opinion is more important or superior than another's. That is one of the fundamental reasons why laws like that for free speech appear so sweeping.
We also have to consider that in the current American sociopolitical climate there is a great want for manipulation. The Robertson guy is a perfect example. After having experienced some real hate speech in my life I don't personally see his remarks about gays as being hateful. He was just speaking his mind. But because someone didn't happen to like what was on his mind he's been vilified.
So who is more right? Am I right in saying that it wasn't hateful? Or is the next guy right for saying it was? It's all relative to public opinion.
We're also talking about a nation that has little to no trust in their national government at this point in time to do much of anything correctly looking for *more* legislation. That's just... no. Probably not going to happen. Right now we're better off letting the public punish with their consumer dollar as they see fit.
An extreme example, sure. But the point remains the same.
What constitutes hate speech is relative and dependent on a variable set of ethics and moral belief systems that are in a constant state of fluctuation. What is offensive to one person may not be to another, and what was offensive yesterday may not be tomorrow. Whose opinions on what is correct or proper behavior isn't based on the collective. It's based on who agrees with them because otherwise it never would have been an issue to begin with, and a part of American culture, whether other nations would agree with it or not, is that we are holden to the belief that no one individual's opinion is more important or superior than another's. That is one of the fundamental reasons why laws like that for free speech appear so sweeping.
We also have to consider that in the current American sociopolitical climate there is a great want for manipulation. The Robertson guy is a perfect example. After having experienced some real hate speech in my life I don't personally see his remarks about gays as being hateful. He was just speaking his mind. But because someone didn't happen to like what was on his mind he's been vilified.
So who is more right? Am I right in saying that it wasn't hateful? Or is the next guy right for saying it was? It's all relative to public opinion.
We're also talking about a nation that has little to no trust in their national government at this point in time to do much of anything correctly looking for *more* legislation. That's just... no. Probably not going to happen. Right now we're better off letting the public punish with their consumer dollar as they see fit.
Actually A&E won. They weren't filming anyway and they got people who don't even watch reality tv to talk about their show. Now when it comes back on their ratings will go up. Game. Set. Match.
Meanwhile during the sheep smoke and mirrows show this happened http://www.activistpost.com/2013/12/bigger-badder-ndaa-2014-quietly-passed.html
Meanwhile during the sheep smoke and mirrows show this happened http://www.activistpost.com/2013/12/bigger-badder-ndaa-2014-quietly-passed.html
nd if your religion makes it ok for you to be a bigot then I really do not like your religion. I still love ya but keep your faith bs away from me with that hate. And if you participate in Chick Phil A Day you're part of the problem. Besides who wants to eat a chicken sandwitch made without any love? Hate makes food tastes dry and stale. Hatorade infested chicken.
God forbid we "legislate against hate-speech"-- it's totally subjective.
But sure other countries do it-- places like Iran have all kinds of blasphemy laws; same thing.
No, really-- it is.
It makes total sense to them.
Of course, they also find it sensible to kill gay people.
Subjective.
In the U.S., however-- even crazy retards like Westboro can stomp around and say whatever they like in public.
But so can I-- in fact, anyone can just as easily refute them, publicly.
And I think that's great. 😄
If you can't see the sign the kid is holding--
All men are created equal, and we share the right to voice our opinions, equally.
And in the immortal words of Martha Stewart, LEO-- It's a good thing.
But sure other countries do it-- places like Iran have all kinds of blasphemy laws; same thing.
No, really-- it is.
It makes total sense to them.
Of course, they also find it sensible to kill gay people.
Subjective.
In the U.S., however-- even crazy retards like Westboro can stomp around and say whatever they like in public.
But so can I-- in fact, anyone can just as easily refute them, publicly.
And I think that's great. 😄
If you can't see the sign the kid is holding--
All men are created equal, and we share the right to voice our opinions, equally.
And in the immortal words of Martha Stewart, LEO-- It's a good thing.
Posted by xPurrrrHissssxPosted by xcake
If you demand empathy and common sense from other people, maybe you should practise it first.
Like say hmmm ...not flinging hateful words around dxp. I don't like what you tell some people "go see a doctor/therapist" and all sorts of shit. That is disgusting.
Youre not really empathizing with anyone. Mental illness is serious and you shouldnt just throw hate around. Especially if you think something is wrong with that person. You've done it a few times.
*standing ovation*click to expand
Good God, p-hiss-- you've done this, yourself.
wtf
Posted by seraph
The problem is in how easily one can slide into moral relativism on the one hand, while acknowledging abuses arising therefrom on the other, and then doing/saying . . . nothing.
This is exactly the problem.
I know that I've personally made some disparaging remarks in the past with regard to certain groups of people. The words themselves were, honestly, derogatory in nature and I admit to being wrong for having used them, but the problem is that while the words themselves were harmful to use the intent behind doing so was not. Before having it pointed out to me I had never given any thought to how saying such things could hurt another person and therefore completely lacked malintent.
My conscience tells me that Robertson didn't really mean any harm either, but that's obviously subjective to the individual's interpretation and sense of morality and experience. Yes, there are a lot of people out there who do purposely abuse freedom of speech to hurt others. We see it everyday and not just in bigotry. It's every time someone calls another person stupid, or ugly, or any other number of hurtful things. And then there are all the people who blurt out really dumb crap that might sound mean but in their own understanding wasn't meant to be.
Taking all of this on a case by case basis isn't exactly feasible. But when more sweeping laws are made to augment other sweeping laws we run the risk of punishing those who are undeserving, and there comes the potential for people to become so overly sensitive that they're afraid to speak their minds or the truth. It's quite apparent though that people aren't choosing to do or say nothing because if that were the case we never would have heard a word about it and there never would have been a public uproar.
I think we should all take a moment to be grateful that ignorance itself is not a crime. If it were we would have to jail every single person in the world at least once.
Posted by seraph
I think we can at least agree on spreading awareness.
I believe that's what is being at this very moment.
Posted by seraph
Thankfully, though A&E's reneging on their position sends the wrong message.
But I suppose allowing Robertson all the atonement + publicity/star power for the show is the best we can hope for in this case. And his publicly stated regret comes off nearly as ignorant (but hopefully not insincere) as the remarks that got him into trouble.
Sometimes you just have to take what you can get and work with it. Baby steps and whatnot.
On a completely unrelated note, I like the Two Steps From Hell songs in your profile.
Freedom of speech does not protect you from the consequences of your words.
Join the Conversation. Explore Yourself. Connect with Others.
Discover insights, swap stories, and find people. dxpnet is where experiences turn into understanding.
Create Your Free Account →Related Topics
Where are you now? Been thinking about you the last few days... I sort of miss you... :(
I always log on to dxpchat and dxpchat2 but no one's there nowadays. :,(
These are the guys you'd want to hang out with coz they're soooo laidback, chilled and lax. Whatever they post, they jus
http://markmanson.net/america Worth a read! dont necessarily agree with EVERYTHING he says, but its a good wake-up
Describe your life using a film tittle
A thread for a list of delicacies one has tried or would like to try. More mundane for me: Bear Moose Elk Pheasan
What TV show would you be on? and why? I don't mean what show would you WANT to be on, but what show would you fit in
What—s with these pseudo relationships? I read some of these threads and it—s women talking about how a guy looks
...is the proper Christmas greeting 'round these parts. Merry Christmas everyone, may the holidays find you in good heal
Wishing you all a joyful and most importantly a peaceful celebration of this finest tradition with your beloved!
Or do you think it's just an illusion like so many other things to make us feel like we have control when really we don'
I think kids should not have phones because they should spend their time outside, not spend their time inside. It's bad
What dishes are you guys having for dinner?
Where men and women swapped roles..lol
A thread for all topics men like to talk about. (Comedy Central keeps a pretty tight reign on the franchise, so this the
That you should follow your heart:
Which are your favorites and still play as adults? Monopoly- my number one Life Backgammon Othello(reversie) C
To date a man when your in your late twenties almost thirty who isnt established or on his way to being established? And
Have you guys heard of this secret government operation called HAARP that allows the government to supposedly control th
Ever got some nookie from a vacation trip? I think I want to get my rocks off :) Stories are welcome :)
Phil Robertson's Suspension Lifted on 'Duck Dynasty'
A&E Networks had previously suspended Robertson after his interview with GQ magazine expressing his anti-gay beliefs. A&E's statement continues: "While Phil's comments made in the interview reflect his personal views based on his own beliefs, and his own personal journey, he and his family have publicly stated they regret the 'coarse language' he used and the misinterpretation of his core beliefs based only on the article," the statement continued. "He also made it clear he would 'never incite or encourage hate.'"
^^nor did he once as some including Seraph suggest he did.